Does it have to be CTC or FTE to have any chance of a job?

[go-apb]

I’m becoming disillusioned…..

Having a PPL(A) and now in a financial position to progress my flight training, hopefully along the JAR/JAA commercial track, I’ve been doing some research to see what’s next.

I’ve spent a few hours on the internet and it appears that CTC or FTE (and a couple of similar institutions) are the primary way forward to give you a reasonable chance of gainful employment when suitably qualified.

The prerequisites are personally a little too restrictive also, I’m no longer under 25yrs of age and I didn’t leave school with a Maths & Physics A-Level, what ever happened to maturity, worldly experience, common sense (most important) and the ability to fly well etc etc.

Being in my thirties and probably thinking of the modular route with schools of my choice, which fit around my current commitments – is it going to be an expensive disappointment following the commercial path?

Is it naive to think a round(s) of CVs when suitably qualified will offer the same chance of employment as someone with similar hours, is of the correct age, and achieved their qualification with the correct school?

This is by no means a gripe or complaint against any school, I’m sure they’re all as good as their literature and performance states. It just seems a little unjust that you may be disadvantaged if you don’t attend one.

Are the airlines impartial, will they consider each application on its own merits?

A lot of questions and negativity I know, however if I’m going to invest £50k+ I would like to know I had a fair chance.

Comments / thoughts please.

[BlueRobin]

The question is, how do you get a break (or series of) from the training into perhaps that all important right-hand seat?

[Desert Budgie]

This sort of question bothered me in the beginning also. I did a modular route (kind of!) with different schools, the best one being Naples Air Center in Florida. I chose to go to good, cheaper schools with the same sort of budget as a student attending a school like cabair or OAT. Cost me half the price. With the money saved I was able to build some multi time and get a rating on my wee turbine and now fly as an F/O.

Some friends who did integrated or modular routes with the more 'famous' schools are either struggling to get out of the instructor scene or still havent found a job. The only people I know who have a right seat job in an airliner are the ones who bought a rating after finishing their training. Then your fees go up to 70-80k after attending the big schools. However, those fees are reduced by 20-30k if you attend a more modest institution.

Put it this way:

CTC / FTE...etc - 250Hr / JAR ATPL(f) - 50-60k

NAC / EFT...etc - 400Hr / JAR ATPL(f) / Instructor / Type Rating / 150Hr Multi - 50k

Its 6 of 1 half a dozen the other, 2 different paths but at the end of the day you come out with the same basic qualification, the second route just gives you more money to spend on making yourself more employable. And please, NO pay for type debate, that is going on on another thread.

DB :ok:

[Dan 98]

Hi go-apb
I can emphathise with you, i'm 32 and started my PPL when i was 29. In an established career, house, married , child etc..... Should I or shouldn't I. I chose to go ahead with it after my PPL, I did all my flying in the UK ie hour building but know many people who went to the states and had no problems. I to didn't exactly excel at school, infact left with 5 GCSE passes including English and Maths, as I'm sure you're aware you will need to pass 14 Ground exams that will test your ability to learn etc.... I really wouldn't worry to much about not having an A-level in Physics, it would only be a problem if you wanted to apply to the CTC Cadet scheme, when they would want A-Levels, besides being over 30 you're too old, however you could try the ATP wings scheme when you finish. They do not require you to have A-levels for this scheme.
If you're committed and determined to be an airline pilot then i would say go for it, I have now finished my training and am 32, i dont have a job yet although the market place does look the best it has been for a long time and so far i dont regret what i have done.
I worked full time as do a lot of modular guys upto the start of my IR, be under no illusion the stresses and strains it will put on your personal life before embarking on this journey, if you have a partner make sure they're 100% behind your plans otherwise it will be a nightmare.
With regards to getting a job at the end, there are no guarantee's going the modular route and as already stated the industry has changed greatly over the years in terms of charging people for Type Ratings or low houred guys buying a TR to improve their job opportunities, as i'm sure you're aware people have strong feelings about this on PPrune, all i will say is it will add £10-20k on top of the £50k ish you will spend getting qualified, butI'd worry about that when you're in that situation, just be aware of the cost before starting. All the best with your decision, if you have any other questions you can always PM etc.... Good luck
Dan

[scroggs]

Does it have to be CTC or FTE to have any chance of a job?

No. If your research has led you to believe this, then you haven't done enough research.

Read this thread: Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION! (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649)

Scroggs

[IRISHPILOT]

Hello,
I did my licence all over the world, only the MCC in the UK. Had a job in the Caribbean, several African countries, Turkey, Czech Republic and now with a Non-European Airline in a sunny EU-location. Job offers come in every now and then from all over the world, including Easy with LGW base. - Apart from the latter, I stongly believe that those hiring had never heard of neither CTC nor FTE. I never felt disadvantaged not going to any of those two.

What will get you a first job and then a good one after, is a rating and then the hours. - It worked for me.

The calculation of DB could be modified, as you are no longer 18: His way minus FI and minus hour building + cheap non-JAR rating + 500 hour building on that airliner (very easy to convert to JAA and cheaper than building that time in a Cessna). that should not set you back more than the 50k either.
Get the night rating free during hour building, which can be done well under 100 Euros in many European countries or half of that in the US.
Initial class 1 medical is about 80 pounds in several JAA countries (renewal 40), multi training in the actual aircraft should be well under 200 Euros per hour in Europe.
The examiner fee of my last SEP checkride was a bottle of Ballentines (regular flying school, no connections)
These are just a few of many examples on how to save a heap and all this information is available on this site, as scroggs correctly and not in one of his best moods states. :oh:

Do not give up, if you really want it, give it some time abroad, I can hardly imagine that UK airlines would refuse an A320 copilot with JAA ATPL and 1200 hours on type because of the school he went to two years before...

Lots of contracter jobs around right now, by the way, and no one will ask you where you trained, but rather if you are available yesterday for the sim and tomorrow for line training (with some hours on type, that is...).
good luck! IP