Eastern Airways

[DTVAirport]

Eastern Airways have unveiled a new livery, the first aircraft to be painted is BAe Jetstream 41 G-MAJL:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1089130&WxsIERv=Oevgvfu%20Nrebfcnpr%20Wrgfgernz%2041&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=Rnfgrea%20Nvejnlf&QtODMg=Funaaba%20%28FAA%20%2F%20RVAA%29&ERDLTkt=Verynaq&ktODMp=Nhthfg%202%2C%202006&BP=0&WNEb25u=Geribe%20Zhyxreevaf&xsIERvdWdsY=T-ZNWY&MgTUQtODMgKE=Svefg%20cubgb%20ba%20Nveyvaref.arg%20bs%20gur%2 0arj%20pbybhef%20bs%20Rnfgrea%20Nvejnlf.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=123&NEb25uZWxs=2006-08-04%2001%3A12%3A54&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=41087&static=yes&width=1024&height=743&sok=JURER%20%20%28ZNGPU%20%28nvepensg%2Cnveyvar%2Ccynpr%2Ccu bgb_qngr%2Cpbhagel%2Cerznex%2Ccubgbtencure%2Crznvy%2Clrne%2C ert%2Cnvepensg_trarevp%2Cpa%2Cpbqr%29%20NTNVAFG%20%28%27%2B% 22T-ZNWY%22%27%20VA%20OBBYRNA%20ZBQR%29%29%20%20beqre%20ol%20cub gb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=1&prev_id=&next_id=1056804&size=L

Not sure I like it.

[Barnaby the Bear]

Looks ok to me. Better than the old one.

[pipertommy]

Looks like BMI colours?Do you think ?

[Richard Taylor]

First sign of an Eastern/bmi tie-up?

:} :E

[tilewood]

I don't like that blue, it reminds me of the first Air UK colour scheme.

It was rapidly changed when they discovered that at night the
aircraft could not be seen on the apron, and ramp equipment
kept driving into them!! :=

[Mercenary Pilot]

I like it, i also think it will look smart on the Saab's. :ok:

[aeulad]

MUCH better, I love it!

The old scheme was old fashioned, the new one is striking!

Regards

Mike

[DTVAirport]

When I first saw it I was disappointed, but now, I'm beginning to like it :) :ok:

[HH6702]

Far too much like BMI should be red not blue

[Topjet]

logo looks upside down if you ask me :}

[J32/41]

Does anyone know how things are going for Eastern at Norwich now that Flybe have been in for a few months??

[airhumberside]

Flybe have started MAN and gone double daily to EDI - Eastern have axed these routes

Flybe also announced ABZ but then cancelled it before starting it and Eastern continue to serve the route alongside bmi regional

[J32/41]

Do you know what happened to the crew that operated the MAN & EDI routes?

:hmm:

[ATIS31]

Are all the aircraft getting this new paint job including the Jetstream 32s ?

[mmeteesside]

I wouldn't think the 32's would get it, they'll probably be going soon

[Jamesair]

There can't be many 32's in the fleet now as as traffic builds up they get replaced by 41's on the thinner routes.

Eastern does a good job and succeeds where a lot of similar carriers have failed. Never hangs around with routes which don't work.

[ATIS31]

As far as I know there are only 3 x J32s left in the fleet one in service runnning WIC - ABZ and ABZ - SYY the other 2 appear to just sit at ABZ
wonder if the one left is service is going to be changed to a J41 anytime soon :confused:

[Richard Taylor]

Eastern are to launch 4 new routes out of ABZ. No details of where as yet, they are in different stages of development, a couple are at "advanced" stage.

Also to add a 2nd rotation on ABZ-SYY, so whether this means more work for the JS32s left, or if it will be JS41 operated remains to be seen.

Wonder which new routes? Will CWL finally be one, & will any be international.

Good news for ABZ. (Sorry HUY...:} )

[Dash-7 lover]

I would imagine there would be performance issues with the J41 and the 1600m rwy at WIC.

[Mister Geezer]

Which should not be much of a problem for the 41. It will be slightly restricted if I can remember but the 41 is useless for short field ops. When I used to fly the J41 I remember doing a Wick - Luton charter and lifted a fullish load so Wick is not that limiting

[Call Established]

Anyone happen to know if G-BUVC and G-BUVD are in operation with Eastern at the moment or in storage. Also if they are leased or owned outright by Eastern ?

Thanks,

[BAforever]

What do you think of Eastern operating CWL-LCY on a J41 as i would certainly use the service?

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

Perhaps the Eastern limitation out of Wick, with some 1800 metres of runway, would not be so much a take off limit there as a landing weight limit at Aberdeen, through which their southbound flights pass. Since it is probable that the fuel price index is less at Aberdeen than at Wick; I should have thought that a fuel uplift at that through point southwards would be perhaps of a twofold necessity?:)

[ATIS31]

G-BUVD was at Wick today. Also Have seen Eastern taking fuel on at Wick on a number of occasions same with Loganair.

[AvianceUK]

Where have Eastern gone?? The night stop has all but dissapeared... Haven't seen a J41 for days..... What's the story here????

[BAforever]

It might be beacuse theyre only operating Newcatle this summer, Brussels to return Sept 11 when EU parliment re-opens. Hope that helps.

[AvianceUK]

Yep....

Just had a look at Eastern website....

BRU from 11th of SEP.. ( from CWL )

Nice paint job, though does make it look a little BMI!!!!

[BAforever]

Does anyone know when Cardiff-Aberdeen service will start? And what what about other routes?

[Richard Taylor]

They have an ad in the local press here for cabin crew.

However as I'm +5ft 10, I'm out! :ok:

[BAforever]

Are they planning new routes/expansion/ Or are they just short of cabin crew:confused:

[Richard Taylor]

4 more routes out of ABZ.

Think CWL may be one. Possibly LCY another. And a stab in the dark, BRU as another? Which leaves a.n.other other.

Those extra Jetstreams gotta go somewhere!!! :}

[TwinAisle]

Brussels to return Sept 11 when EU parliment re-opens. Hope that helps.

Think you're wrong here - first flight on the booking engine is 2 October.

[BAforever]

Sorry but i originally thought it was until AviaceUK said sept 11. Then i edited my post but sorry.:ok:

[TwinAisle]

My apologies - I just noticed you were quoting someone else.

[AvianceUK]

I'm not lying!!! Honest!!!

When I checked the schedule of CWL-BRU..it said it resumed from September 11th....

Just looked now, and it indeed says October 2nd......

Your guess is as good as mine.....

Cheers....

[captainyonder]

Does anyone have a list of actual crew bases for Eastern? Also, where are the Saab 2000s based?

[NickBarnes]

ones at NWI

[mmeteesside]

They have pilots (and CC) based at the following airports...

Aberdeen, Cardiff, Chester/Hawarden, Durham Tees Valley, Humberside, Inverness, Isle of Man, Leeds/Bradford, Manchester, Newcastle, Norwich, Nottingham East Midlands, Southampton and Wick

Of which they have Saab 2000 crews at Aberdeen (ABZ-NCL-SOU) and Norwich (NWI-ABZ) and J32 crews I imagine are at Aberdeen and Wick :confused:

HTH
mmeteesside

[captainyonder]

Absolutely perfect mmeteeside! Thanks.

[mmeteesside]

They have also had a CRJ900, Dash 8-400 and ATR42 on trial with them recently (separately!)

mmeteesside

[airhumberside]

Eastern aren't interested in the CRJ-900s (at least that is what they told Airliner World magazine.)

[DTVAirport]

In the Airliner World article they practically ruled out purchasing any new aircraft.

[mmeteesside]

I see they have launched a new website, incorporating their new logo. It is hasn't changed all that much from the last one, but I like it! It certainly puts across the Eastern professional touch.

mmeteesside

[ATIS31]

I see from there Website they only have 2 x J32s left wonder when they are due to leave the Fleet ?

[Richard Taylor]

I want the pretty stewardess back, nice website otherwise! :{ :E

I also notice that IOM is listed as a destination from ABZ (& vice versa) but no flights bookable. Looks like this could be the 1st of the new destinations T3 said they were looking at for ABZ.

[juan who nose?]

Just seen that Eastern Airways won the Gold Regional Airline of the Year award from the European Regional Airline Association!

Quite an achievement (first UK airline ever to win this?)

Congratulations to everyone at Eastern!!

[DTVAirport]

They deserve it!

[GLOBUSAIR]

wel... seem to be the only one saying this.. but that new livery is pants! its really a poor effort, a nasty blue and looks soooo bad on the J41.. the front of the aircraft just looks bland too like that..

it looks like... a really bad virtual airline livery people.. walked past it parked at Leeds and its just as bad stood next to it... yuk :=

[Wellington Bomber]

GlobusAIr

Congratulations, You are the only person to have said this so far, I speak for many people who think that it makes the Jetstream fleet look a lot younger and dynamic, and the new look goes with winning the Gold Award hand in hand:ok:

[Computer says NO!]

IOM is served from ABZ, but via NCL. As far as Iam aware there are no plans to start a direct service from ABZ.

As an aside, G-MAJL is the only one to be painted with the old style bird (albiet upside down) all the rest have the new flag style.

We didnt think that the new livery was that good at first, but when your up close and see them, it certainly grows on you and is a big improvement from the last one. I think everyone is in agreement, there is a little more red required perhaps!!

CSN:ok:

[GLOBUSAIR]

yes,,, more red at the very least.

the thing is... it looks like they just forgot the front of the aircraft! its white with a tiny t3 logo now!

maybe they got a discount on blue paint from B&Q.

yes... better than the last but anything is better than the old job :O

In ref; to G-MAJL ... that was the airframe i walked past at leeds and the change to the tail logo on the rest of the new paint jobs is much better! so i admit thats ok Wellington Bomber.

[GLOBUSAIR]

I dont work for jet2 thanks...

[spanishflea]

Nice to see they are milking all they can get out of that Gold Award! Posters at check in, and big stickers on the cockpit door already.

I must say they thoroughly deserved it, flew with them for the first time on Friday and thoroughly looking forward to doing so again on Monday.

[Jamesair]

good to hear that at least one airline makes flying a pleasant experience.....I was just thinking how really poor the experience has become over the last couple of years.

[Wellington Bomber]

As anybody noticed the latest J41 operating this week from HUY - ABZ the reg no JY

[SWBKCB]

good to hear that at least one airline makes flying a pleasant experience.....I was just thinking how really poor the experience has become over the last couple of years.
A colleague with no particular interest in aviation flew NCL-BHX-NCL the other day and made the same sort of comments - felt like flying on a 'proper' airline (even if it was 'a little thing with propellers!') and the experience compared well against the BA NCL-LHR-NCL they are used to.

[skyman771]

SWBKCB

Have done the NCL-BHX many times & yes they do try and the enthusiasm shows. But at the end of the day it comes down to 'you only get what you pay for' & this is not a Loco operation.

[Richard Taylor]

Do T3 still have their "engineering outstation" or whatever they want to call it out at PIK?

Couple of J41s there at moment, are these bound for T3 or elsewhere, or for breaking-up?

Do T3 expect to expand their J41 fleet, or acquire more S20 for that matter?

Thanks :ok:

[mmeteesside]

Yes I believe there are (at least) 5 still there, bound for Eastern.

I don't think they are planning any more Saab 2000's yet though.

Scott

[Cyrano]

Jenkins:

I don't know when Eastern's J41 leases expire but obviously their lease rentals are non-negotiable until then. Come lease renewal time, of course there's scope for change, but there's not exactly an excess of demand over supply for Jetstreams at the moment so I would have thought that flyBE (if indeed they are the beneficial owners of the aircraft) would just be happy to be getting some revenue stream rather than driving Eastern to take other J41s. So I wouldn't see that as a major threat to Eastern's cost base.

Incidentally, ACAS says that the J41s which Eastern operates but doesn't own are owned by a company called "Trident Aviation Leasing" in Jersey. Are you sure that the ultimate owner of those J41s is BACX/BA Connect (and hence perhaps now flyBE), or did big BA keep the ownership?

C.

[spanishflea]

The Jetstreams were of course around long before BACX/BACON and any of that lot, operating with British Airways Regional. For this reason it is quite possible that BA are the owners of the leases.

If FlyBe do take over the lease they wont be in any position to raise the charges to Eastern, due to the fact that most of the JS41s on the market are currently actively being re-homed. Even if FlyBe withdrew the lease entirely, Eastern would most likely be able to locate a similar number of Jetstreams elsewhere.

At the end of the day I imagine the lease will either remain quietly with BA, or get transferred quietly to FlyBe, with minimum of fuss.

[jethro15]

The BAe Jetstreams transfered from BA Connect is a sub lease arrangement. BA Connect are responsible for returning the a/c to the lessor at the end of the lease arrangement, which at the moment covers a period between 2007 and 2009.

jethro
UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings
http://www.jethros.i12.com

[fudpucker]

Ah, but Eastern sub lease the J41's on favourable terms(or at least they did when BACON, then BACitiexpress, offloaded the fleet i.e. BACON pay part of the leasing costs). I wonder if this cosy arrangement can continue or is this why BACON continues to exist as a company?

[Richard Taylor]

Is it possible that the JS41s that have recently arrived & those about to go into service are to replace the earlier models they have on lease as & when those leases start expiring?

By the way, this evening's tea-time departures southbound out of ABZ (to NCL, MME, HUY, LBA, EMA & NWI) were all running about 1hr late, give or take 5-10mins either side.

Anyone know why this was - could be they were just switching Jetstreams around, can't believe they all went u/s!

I'm wondering if there was some sort of meeting/announcement at ABZ re possible new routes...or it could have been just a traffic jam at ABZ!

Edited: It was a fire alarm at ABZ terminal, someone burned the rowies again. So there WAS an announcement at ABZ...GET OOT O THE TERMINAL!! ;o)

[Richard Taylor]

Does anyone know what T3 have in mind for the coming year in terms of expansion from the likes of ABZ/MME/HUY/NCL, if anything?

Are all their JS41s employed, or do they have spare capacity?

Any more aircraft (JS41/SB20 or even - E145!) on the horizon or are they happy with what they have.

I know they are due to stop NCL-LCY, & they have alluded to more for ABZ, but nothing has materialized so far.

Would they stick to UK expansion only, or (as with MME-BRU) are they starting to look further afield.

:ok:

[red17]

From what i can tell T3 have a spare saab 2000 but looks like the j41's are in use. Any IOM plans?? IOM - LCY could work with a j41:bored:

[mmeteesside]

At the current schedule I believe they have around 5-6 J41's spare and 1-2 Saab 2000's....dumping NCL-LCY from the end of this week gives them another J41 to play with.

[SAM-EMA]

Do any of you guys think that there is any potential for any more routes out of EMA. For example, IOM hasn't been served for many years after Euromanx pulled off. Is there any chance of a route to LCY because the midlands has not been linked to London since BD came off the routes from EMA and BHX many years ago (surely aircraft as small as T3 operate can satisfy such routes, even though its not far-I would certainly use it).

Thanks
SAM-EMA

[ATIS31]

Heard a rumour that there was a J41 going to WIC are they going down to a 2 type Aircraft Fleet ? Noticed J31 painted in new livery so maybe not true. :rolleyes:

[Richard Taylor]

Still 2/3 JS31/2s around, usually G-BUVC/D at ABZ, G-IJYS around somewhere as well I think.

Restricted to WIC-ABZ-SYY-ABZ-WIC.

How are T3 coping vs. the loco competition (especially Flybe). Seen so many rumours that Flybe would compete on routes at NCL & ABZ but thus far they haven't really launched an all-out assault against T3.

At ABZ, only compete on LBA-ABZ, but T3 pulled off BFS-ABZ a couple of years back when BE launched BHD-ABZ, & BE pulled the NWI-ABZ route which T3 fly just as the start date loomed. Also rumours BE would start SOU-ABZ & NCL-ABZ against T3 (& return to launch NWI-ABZ some day), but not come to anything yet.

I do wonder what will happen if/when BE & other locos increasingly start competing on routes that T3 fly.

Or maybe it won't come to that, as T3 are primarily focused on business, & maybe there are just not enough leisure pax to attract locos onto T3 routes, or possibly the markets if there is demand will remain separate markets.

I am a fan of T3 - they are a good & shrewd operator & I am sure they would adapt if change was required.

[mmeteesside]

BE pulled the NWI-ABZ route which T3 fly just as the start date loomed

I believe this was some sort of agreement between T3 + BE, allowing BE to have NWI-EDI, and T3 to have NWI-ABZ

[tescoapp]

Do T3 still have their "engineering outstation" or whatever they want to call it out at PIK?


Err I think you find that those J41's have actually gone home to mummy where they were intially made ie British Aerospace.

I would imagine that any increase in numbers of J41's on the British register will have come from the US from the desert. They will have a raft of Engineering changes to be made before they are fit for use in the UK. E.g TCAS fitted, Cockpit doors, BRNav and also any special stuff just for eastern eg a galley.

The fitting of the cockpit door would be a complete bitch with major structural changes which the line maintence hangers available arn't equiped to do.

[tightturnaround]

Re RT's question - he is in fact corrrect and the facility at PIK is a T3 facility and not BAE, staffed by T3 engineers. Here, the J41 a/c returning from the states are as described stripped down and rebuilt as well as being put through all the various avionics mods required (EGPWS/TCAS etc). Cabins are completely re-furbished, fitted with T3's all-leather seating and as stated galleys are added at the rear (I understand that in the U.S. these a/c operated in 30-seat config with no galley facilities as opposed to T3's 29-seat fit).
Of the 3 remaining J31/2 a/c - I beleive the oldest (G-ys) is now stored at HUY with VC/VD alternating on the Wick/Stornoway as described. These 2 will also be stored from the end of Feb when Wick/Stornoway becomes J41, making the fleet around 25 J41s and 4 S2000's.
Of the Jetstreams - generally 3 are tactical spares while 2 or 3 are on maintenance checks in the HUY hangars, though it seems the oldest BACX aircraft will soon start being returned as the 'new' aircraft come online, and the cancellation of NCL-LCY will I presume release a unit.
The Saabs - constantly rumours this will be increased by 2 or 3 aircraft this year

[ATIS31]

Cheers for the Info Tightturnaround :ok: . Makes you wonder why they can't source other Aircraft that don't need all that modifications done. Guess
its down to cost ,J41s are probably cheaper than any other Turboprops in the UK with that seat configuration

[tescoapp]

I wouldn't say that needing a heap of mods is particular to J41's when older aircraft are getting put onto the British reg.

Especially if they have been in the desert for a few years. I should imagine the cabins will be in a pretty poor condition.

And a fleet of 25 is over a quarter of the whole production run.

J41's have a reputation for being quite fast little ships, reasonably reliable and don't use much fuel. And as with all BAE products built like a brick :mad: house.

Is the sim up and running yet?

[aeulad]

They should look closer to home and route the MME-BRU route via HUY and launch Humberside to Copenhagen, Esbjerg and Paris CDG.

Regards

Mike

[Andy_S]

One suspects they've already thought of that.

[aeulad]

Oh, and a HUY-Southampton would'nt go a miss either!

Regards

Mike

[Get me some traffic]

What about MME - Bournemouth?

[mmeteesside]

a) They don't serve Bournemouth
b) They already fly NCL-SOU and LBA-SOU

Just 2 reasons why they won't start MME-BOH :ugh:

[DTVAirport]

MME-BHD/BFS/IOM/LCY would all be good ones I reckon.

[Richard Taylor]

We can all play the guessing game I suppose.

ABZ to KOI/LSI/HAU/AES/RTM/CWL. Perm any one from that lot!

Of course, only people who'll decide if potential yields & loads are worth the risk are T3.

I have wondered however why they have not launched more from HUY, which is their base after all, or MME.

[bmibaby.com]

Any news on how the EMA-ABZ route is doing? Considering EMA is very much a low-cost market, I've heard the route has been struggling a little bit, soon maybe going down to just twice daily.

[oliema]

Small routes across the UK are needed. Big Airlines havent got the small aircraft. Eastern Airways do. They could fly everywhere. I thought about Bournemouth as a base but again as you said its close to Southampton. But what about Glasgow Preswick to Liverpool, Doncaster, Newcastle, Humberside, they could have quite a few routes from there. East Midlands to Aberdeen, Inverness, Exeter even. They could have loads of routes but they dont seem to get these ideas:\ .

[Jerbourg]

I would love to see Eastern operate a route or two to Guernsey, we badly need a connection to Leeds-Bradford ,EMA or even Doncaster.

[Richard Taylor]

EMA-ABZ certainly has been reduced from 4 rotations to 3, whether that is because of falling pax/yields I'm not sure. Would be surprised if they dropped it further to 2, but at some point I do feel EMA-ABZ could become a loco route, I would say bmi Baby may fancy a crack at it. If/when that happens, T3 may not think it worth continuing.

Similarly LBA-ABZ especially now with Flybe for company could see changes in future but for now T3 continue with 3 rotations M-F.

However T3 will certainly I feel put up a fight on ABZ routes down the east coast - lots of lovely high yield oil business traffic, which is where EMA/LBA perhaps differ.

[Get me some traffic]

FRA/FPL (Flight Refuelling if you're my age) have their main base at HH and their northern base at NV. There is a constant movement of personnel between the two units. An airline with the right equipment (24-40 seats) would support two rotations a day between the two. Eastern seems to me to be the obvious choice.

[bmibaby.com]

EMA-ABZ certainly has been reduced from 4 rotations to 3, whether that is because of falling pax/yields I'm not sure. Would be surprised if they dropped it further to 2, but at some point I do feel EMA-ABZ could become a loco route, I would say bmi Baby may fancy a crack at it. If/when that happens, T3 may not think it worth continuing.

If bmibaby adds a sixth aircraft, then I can imagine that this might be to add a twice daily Aberdeen flight, then others destinations filling in the voids, especially with the apparent success of the BHX-ABZ route. The EMA market is very much a low-cost market, and British Midland used to do quite well on the ABZ with what I think was a Fokker 70. Ryanair won't do ABZ, though the new four times weekly INV starts next month.

[niknak]

I cant ever see T3 going low cost.

Their business model is and always has been to price fares against the first class return rail far and market it on the basis of if you had a days business to conduct, how long it would take to travel by road or rail there and back and how much time would that leave you compared to a an air service which got you there first thing and allowed you to depart as late as possible, still allowing you to be home and refreshed at a reasonable hour.

It seeems to have worked for them so far and suspect it will for a long time to come, mainly because the low cost airlines cannot afford to operate from the majority of airports at the times which Eastern do.

[Andy_S]

Small routes across the UK are needed. Big Airlines havent got the small aircraft. Eastern Airways do. They could fly everywhere....... They could have loads of routes but they dont seem to get these ideas

They may have small aircraft, but they don't have small fares...... Eastern specialise in niche routes where there's a small but regular business led market able and willing to pay high prices. The offshore oil / gas industry is a good example.

I'm quite sure T3 DO have lot's of ideas, but unlike the arrmchair airline CEO's they have to consider the commercial viability of routes.

[Wellington Bomber]

Richard Taylor

I am led to believe that when BE started LBA-SOU the loads on T3 were terrible down to sometimes 4 pax on each flight. All the regulars of T3 sampled the BE service and now the loads are back in their 20's, with many customers saying that the product was not very good or reliable, so I am sure the same will apply on the LBA-ABZ.

With regards to people mentioning LCY from small regionals, the new owners want to attract larger aircraft and have therefore doubled charges which is why T3 have dumped the LCY route from NCL and I am sure they will not start another service from another airport to LCY.

I have also heard that WIC - ABZ -SYY is going J41 from mid February

With regards to Baby doing EMA- ABZ , I know that Baby are doing well with BHX - ABZ but to have 2 737's going from airports which are only half hour away from each other is a bit overkill which is not predominantly leisure traffic

[airhumberside]

FRA/FPL (Flight Refuelling if you're my age) have their main base at HH and their northern base at NV. There is a constant movement of personnel between the two units. An airline with the right equipment (24-40 seats) would support two rotations a day between the two. Eastern seems to me to be the obvious choice.
Wheres HH and NV?

[Wellington Bomber]

Air Humberside

HH - Bournemouth
NV - Durham Tees Valley or Teesside to everybody

[red17]

Any chance of an IOM - MAN service with T3. The potential is there, a large amount of the flights by BACON on this route are business pax. There was talk that if BACON pulled off this route T3 would move in. Ok the route will still exist under BE but it would be good to see someone stand up to euromanx (3w) because if BE decide that IOM isn't for them then 3w will be able to do what they like.

[Richard Taylor]

With thanks to Wellington Bomber. :ok:

Are T3 close to announcing anything new for ABZ beyond the upgrade on the WIC & SYY routes?

[San Expiry]

red 17 - you're doing a lot of trawling on several threads concerning IOM, looking as if your'e batting for some of the sides and have it in for others. Questions about Cityflyer to London City to knock euromanx out and now Eastern to Manchester to do the same. Care to divulge your interest in the goings on on Fraggle?

[ATIS31]

Are WIC and SYY Aircraft upgrade due to Passenger numbers or just T3 going to a 2 type operation. What like are the loads on ABZ - SYY any additional services other than 1 a day ?

[Richard Taylor]

I am sure Eastern announced last year (from the winter timetable) that ABZ-SYY was going double-daily M-F but they changed their mind.

I think it was because the unit used on the WIC service couldn't fulfil the proposed extra SYY rotation at the times Eastern wanted it to.

At present the SYY is fitted in between the late morning WIC arrival/late afternoon WIC departure.

Again, I think Eastern have said previously that ideally they would want better timings for business pax, which may come eventually, say one morning flight & an evening flight.

[Wellington Bomber]

Eastern Sim up and running just heard

[Serenity]

Surely T3 can`t abandon the London area completely! I know LCY is now really expensive, how about routes from LTN?
With the M25 being widened and the new high speed links into the city, surely this will be a hit for buisnessmen and comuters to 2012.

[Richard Taylor]

As of now do T3 still have a presence at PIK - are they expecting to repatriate any more 41s from the US deserts?

[tonto68]

Anyone heard anything about the two planes at HUY that have had problems with their undercarriage? Two full emergencies have been called within 3 days at HUY and the latest one (16/7/08) even suggested that it may ditch in the sea.

[ATIS31]

Anyone know what happened to the INV Crew where are they relocated to ?

[Single Spey]

FlyBe :)

Alternatively, Aberdeen ...

[j41cac]

Kept on by Eastern.

Something to be announced soon i'm told.

Watch this space.

:ok:

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

What would that be, an Embrarer sim at HUY

[Richard Taylor]

Have you won the contract for the transportation of oil personnel between ABZ & Scatsta? Flightline had been rumoured to have lost it when it renews in Feb?

Just guessing, mind! :}

[airhumberside]

3rd party training, or a new aircraft type for the fleet?

(Eastern have operated ERJ-135/145 in the past though)

[jetstreamtechrecords]

picking up BE route perhaps:ok:

[G-JECL]

Maybe theyve finally got slots to operate IOM-LCY?

[JulietNovemberPapa]

I was at ABZ on Thur flying down to LGW with BE.

I noticed that in about a 30-minute period 2 T3 flights were delayed because of technical problems and another flight was over 1 hour delayed.

[Richard Taylor]

Eastern do try & get you to your destination. Aircraft do go tech, happens to all airlines.

How are T3 riding out the present climate? For instance, my local (ABZ) has seen a sustained drop in domestic pax, are T3 being affected by this?

Despite the Crunch, are they looking at expansion, or are any plans on the back burner until better times come around?

[Cloud1]

Congratulations Scratchingthesky, another example of a forum user who likes to post anything but the facts. :=

Try to do a little bit of investigating before you talk such nonsense.

[UKpaxman]

Cloud1 - you'll be glad to know that the Flybe 17:00 from Aberdeen to Gatwick went tech today and was cancelled, is this not exactly what Scratchingthesky said earlier.

[Kiltie]

I can vouch that Eastern have always made it their priority to substitute another aircraft at any cost to ensure the flight departs. This is in keeping with their business traveller focus, with associated generally higher fare.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Flew Eastern last year, Aberdeen south.
Big bucks for ticket, flight overbooked, two pax off loaded. No offer of ticket on other airline given. Just wanted two volunteers to not travel.
Cannot see reason for over booking premium money flight.

[jetstreamtechrecords]

look at what BE do to their pax on BHX IOM and what Eastern do and youll see why its worth paying a few quid more for Eastern:ok:

[Cloud1]

Working for the airline themselves I am telling you that the airline does not simply cancel a flight. There is no point in arguing with you because you already have an opinion which you will stick to based on 'experience' without actually looking at the bigger picture, and I feel pitty for you in that respect because you claim to have knowledge about the aviation industry. It is nothing personal and please do not take offense, but it is clear that there are many users of this forum that fall into a particular category and it isn't pretty - namely 'one or two flights and they know the whole operation'. You may be an experienced traveler but when your flying on that one flight just think about the other 450 operating that day. How an earth you can compare Flybe operations to the likes of Eastern is beyond me! :ugh:

And as for Eastern being better at combining etc......I believe Flybe do that too when absolutely required. Nothing special you know - many airlines do it. Out of curiosity how many passengers do Eastern carry per annum compared to Flybe? How many aircraft do Flybe have compared to Eastern? How much experience does Flybe (Management) have at running an airline compared to Eastern? These are not to be answered necessarily but I am just trying to make a point - they are my employer and we work dam hard to ensure that our operations are as smooth as possible and it is quite irritating to see criticism when the supporting evidence is so weak.

Kind regards

[airhumberside]

While holding slots doesn't mean they have to be used, Eastern have slots at AMS for a LCY sdrvice from January 2009. They also hold slots for an INV service again

[virginblue]

The AMS slots certainly have to do with the VLM takeover by the AF/KL-group. Surrender of a sufficient number of slots enabling a competitor to start up on AMS-LCY is one of the conditions for an approval by the OFT. I do not see, though, how Eastern could expect to win against a combined VG/KL force on this route. Even after surrendering some slots they will have more than a dozen or so daily flights plus worldwide connections at AMS plus a decent FFP. But maybe it is just part of a bigger game - better for Skyteam to have a "competitor" like Eastern than Star or Oneworld entering the AMSLCY market. Might be for Eastern's gain if they start up INVAMS....

[AirLCY]

They will also have a oneworld competitor - BA already operate LCYAMS!

[Jamesair]

I would like to see them have a go at an ABZ - NCL - LCY route with the S2000, twice daily M - F

[Richard Taylor]

Are their Saab 2000s utilised fully at the moment, or is there plenty scope to utilise them more fully? Are they still looking for more?

[Cpt. Chaos]

Rumour has it, that there are two more winging their way to Eastern in the very near future...:mad: before the New Year at least..

[j41cac]

I dont know but have heard that eastern are in talks on the IOM re IOM-AMS and IOM-LCY. Is there any truth or is this normal hearsay?

[egnxema]

So, can anyone at HUY tell us if T3 plan to start AMS LCY services in January with the slots they got from KLM?

[IOMspotter]

AMS-LCY-IOM-LCY-AMS am. AMS LCY IOM LCY AMS pm. SAAB 2000:cool:

[Flightrider]

I think if you were to assume an 8 x daily LCY-AMS service, with a Saab 2000 based at each end of the route working against each other, you might be rather closer to the plan. There is no sign of Eastern taking on IOM-LCY. The move onto AMS-LCY looks like a last-ditch effort to irritate someone sufficiently so that they buy Eastern.

Flybe seem hell-bent on crushing Eastern and so the prospect of them buying it is remote. If you look at the most recent set of Eastern accounts, they made a profit of £4m and £2.4m of that was paid out in dividends to the directors. This resulted in Eastern having less cash in the bank at the end of its financial year than before, reducing from £2.6m to £1.4m in the bank. To say that this is extravagant in relation to the size of the company would be an understatement akin to saying that Abraham Lincoln didn't enjoy his trip to the theatre.

[Skipness One Echo]

AMS-LCY has to be the London City route with the most overcapacity already with both KLM and VLM being recently joined by BA Cityflyer. What would Eastern bring to the table except mounting losses?

[mmeteesside]

Is this supposed new AMS-LCY not a contract for KLM? I seem to remember they were supposed to start INV-AMS for KLM so going in direct competition with them from LCY may not be a clever idea?! :hmm:

[DTVAirport]

Well we all know how quick Eastern are to axe failing routes, so we shouldn't have to wait too long to find out if it's been a success or not.

[egnxema]

Its nigh on impossible to get hold of slots at peak times now at LCY, unless like T3 you get hold of someone elses - in this case KLM Cityhopper's.

T3 could only do IOM if they use some of the LCYAMS slots instead, unless they want to flew off peak to IOM, which is not much good for most business pax.

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Maybe better slightly off peak LCY IOM than not at all? I'm sure Dickie could do a very friendly deal to provide competition (but not too much) on AMS as part of slot swap and keep competition authority off KLM/VLM/AF.:ooh:

[airhumberside]

Last year Kaupthing, the Icelandic bank nationalised today, provided finance to Eastern. I dont want to scare-monger but have Eastern still got any exposure to them?
Regional airline gets Birmingham investment - Birmingham Post (http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingham-business/tm_method=full&objectid=20265078&siteid=50002-name_page.html)

[jetstreamtechrecords]

its not if I'd borrowed money from the Icelandics I'd worry...it's if I'd lent them mine. :{I'm sure Richard's got his millions safely under an english matress not an icelandic one.;)

[niknak]

It doesn't matter if the finance came from an Icelandic Bank or the Clangers, it's not Eastern's problem.
Just as it wouldn't be if your High Street Bank went under with you owing them money - the debt just gets sold on to whoever takes them over or buys the assets.

Another Sir Dickie admitted this morning that Virgin Airlines had most of their liquid day to day operating cash tied up with HBOS, a sum of over £20m, and that when they tried to move it they found the safe door at HBOS firmly closed.
The bearded one freely admitted that had they not been able to rely on getting cash quickly transferred from his own and "other resources" (I assume within the group), they would have probably had to temporarily cease operating a number of profitable services or even shut down all together.

[Tonyq]

What you say is essentially correct, although the bank acquiring the debt may well have a different view of 'credit risk' and therefore be less willing to continue to advance funds on the same basis.

This comment is not specific to this airline, but is a general fact in such situations.

[waterpau]

I agree with Tonyq, but does anyone know what type of 'financing' Kaupthing S&F provided? Was it a loan, sale and leaseback facility, etc.?

Singer and Friedlander have (or at least used to have before the merger with Kaupthing) a sizeable asset management division. My only real worry would be if Eastern use assets leased from Kaupthing; do Eastern own the SAABs?

waterpau

[mmeteesside]

Anyone know the reason behind Eastern using the Saab from Norwich on all the afternoon flights from Durham Tees to Aberdeen today? KB positioned in from NWI and flew the 586/7/8/9 (66L/67L/68L/69L) before positioning back to NWI this evening! Short of J41 crew :} or big loads :ok: ???

[SNAEFELL77]

LCY here we come :ok: The airline the city has been waiting for :)

http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/Mergers_home/consultations/air-france (http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/Mergers_home/consultations/air-france)

[egnxema]

That's right SNAEFELL - an airline with consistently high fares and a history of ditching LCY within months of starting ops. (NCL LCY)

Good luck!

[niknak]

Thats certainly an ambitious proposal - LCY/AMS up to 8 times a day - against AFKLM.
It remains to be seen if they operate all the flights, but they will be operating the first flight out and last flight back to and from AMS, both of which will be nearly an hour earlier and later than AFKLM, which is bound to appeal to the business traveller.
I don't suppose that all that many folk going to AMS from LCY really need to interline, or if they want to they will for the most part, only be carrying light luggage for a few nights in Europe, so if Eastern can't get that facility in AMS it won't be the end of the world.
Given their much lower operating costs v the monolith that is AFKLM, they can easily match the fares,even if they were discounted by the opposition.

Hope it goes well for them.

[fredtheanorak]

Price war on AMS LCY? If you were AF would you sell to someone who'd cut prices? Nope, nice cosy high fare route itll be but with Eastern's good looking trolley dollys :Dand free champers. Theyll all do very nicely thankyou:ok:

[mmeteesside]

Good news for Eastern that! Seems a very clever move from AF/KL too.

Anyone know the reason behind Eastern using Saabs on all Durham Tees-Aberdeen's today? While a J41 sat spare all day, joined by a 2nd when it arrived from Haugesund at lunchtime (well, 1150) - are they short of J41 crew or are the loads just too big for the J41's to cope with? Surely they don't oversell by that many?! :confused:

[Benj]

Just short of J41 captains at the moment

[turbroprop]

Have any been short listed to fly Thunderbird Three parked outside the Sim Hangar? Hope it gets painted in Eastern Colours.

[jamestkirk]

I am a sci-fi fan so hopefully they will choose me. I might need to lose some weight though to look good in the uniform. And I want a ray gun.

Is that where T3 comes from?

[virginblue]

How are they going to operate 8 daily flights between LCY and AMS if the proposed new route gets off the ground? They will need at least 2 Saab 2000s for that route, with one each being based at LCY and AMS according to the proposed schedule. If I am not mistaken, they only have 6 on strength.

[airhumberside]

The Thunderbird 3 at HUY arrived a couple of months ago from Blackpool Pleasure Beach. Dont think its anything to do with the origin of the T3 code

[turbroprop]

Hi Virginblue

I would be supprised if planning a new route from point A to point B that the question has not been asked. Can we do it with the planes we have or do we need some more?

[UKpaxman]

Thunderbird 3 will be for the ABZ SCS service:E

[Wellington Bomber]

2 more SAABs arrive next month

[pjjohnst]

Its just been announced in Shetland that Eastern have gotten the IAC contract at Scatsta with SAAB 2000's - Let the fun begin :rolleyes:

[UKpaxman]

That's funny, I remember exactly the same comments when Flightline took over from BWA. Who knows, maybe the IAC do know what they're doing:ooh:

[mikehammer]

Just goes to show you not to listen to rumours - I heard it was FLYBE who'd won it. DOH!

[garrygaz]

So whats the probability that Eastern will move their Ops to ABZ, which will be its busiest hub by far?

[Richard Taylor]

It's the interim contract they've won, taking them to Jul 2010. Wonder if that puts them in pole position for the contract "proper" when it's put out to tender at the end of this month.

As for moving from HUY, cannot see that, all their main infrastructure is there, they would have to build at ABZ I would have thought if they wanted to move HQ.

[UKpaxman]

Wasn't it the same position with Flightline - did they not pick up an interim contract when BWA folded which then led to them being awarded the main contract?

[Richard Taylor]

UKpaxman

Yeah, that's how I remember it as well. Still couldn't beat the whine of the BAF Viscounts though! :ok:

[Wheeliebin]

UKpaxman RT

You guys are correct. Flightline took it almost overnight in Dec 01 after BWA went pear shape, then awarded interim contract and subsequently main contract which was to run until July 2010. Thence they've lost it in the current fiasco, to the "modern, quieter more comfortable SAAB 2000". (Quoted from pax info flyer)

[UKpaxman]

Hmm, my understanding was that Flightline didn't lose it to the Saab 2000, Flightline lost the contract full stop.

Richard, the whining never went away, it seems to reappear every time this contract comes up for grabs:ooh:

[Wheeliebin]

UKpaxman

Correct 100% Flightline lost contract, only themselves to blame. I didn't se my post as a whine. Just agreeing with your comments on the history of the matter and passing on the info that the traveling oil workers have been given.

[Richard Taylor]

Apologies for thread drift, but does anyone know what Flightline did so wrong to have the contract taken away?

[Wheeliebin]

RT

Probably not the place to expose the reasons. Needless to say that Flightline are aware of them and hopefully, down at the mouth of the Thames, they are being addressed. Also worth observing is that if they were of such a serious nature, then they would not be continuing to operate until Feb 7.

What I will say is the IAC indicated that they were happy with the Aberdeen part of the operation. The 146 giving the "best service they've ever had". That being the case, it is a bit hard to understand - I know !

WB

[Richard Taylor]

Ta WB. I always thought operationally at ABZ anyway FLT had done a reliable job.

However I am sure Eastern will do likewise, when they start the interim contract.

When the two 2000s arrive to augment that fleet, taking into account the LCYAMS route they are to commence, will they have enough of the type to fulfill their commitments, bearing in mind three of them will being engaged on up to four round trips M-F for the IAC? Also taking into account ABZOSL which they recently announced as well.

[Wheeliebin]

RT

I wish them the very best. SCS is a challenging airfield, but I'm sure that with the right training they will do well.

It's a small world aviation. Who knows, in the current economic climate there could be the odd Flightline crew heading to "090" up the W5D. Not sure about those hats and yellow ties !!! :)

WB

[UKpaxman]

WB - whining comment wasn't aimed at you - there's a number of posters who just seem to think it's always the wrong decision before the operation has even started. There was the same comments before the 146's arrived (old unreliable aircraft, not suited for SCS, too expensive for route, blah, blah...)

[Wheeliebin]

No problem Mr Paxman
Cheers WB

[niknak]

Good news for Eastern.

I can't see why they'd need to move anything to ABZ except expand their handling facilities there. The Head Office & Operations Dept are ideally situated at HUY, it's cheap to keep them and the staff there.

Additionally, good news for pilots and crews who are looking for work, even if it's not directly onto the SAAB I understand T3 are looking for JS41 staff.

[Drink Up Thee Cider]

Where will the aircraft come from? Will this mean cuts to the Eastern scheduled service in order to actually have enough aircraft to fly SCS?

[garrygaz]

I don't think it as simple as Eastern expanding their existing handling agents staff. Flightline's current staff will be entitled to TUPE and I am sure their existing terms and conditions are pretty good, almost certainly better than Regional Handling, Eastern will possibly need to directly employ Flightline Staff, at least in the short term.

[john2408]

2 Saab 2000's due to arrive in December,either to HUY or ABD.

[Liobian]

So, with a/c expected, anyone know when Eastern are due to commence this oil run ?

[BAAdboy]

Looks like last flights by FLT 146s on Friday 6th Feb 2009 with EZE Saabs commencing from Monday 9th Feb 2009.

[mancairboy]

friend has told me eastern to withdraw flights from manchester can
anyone confirm this have tried to book online for december
but response is no flight available

[egnxema]

Any news if/when EZE are going to announce the LCY AMS flights for sale?

[airhumberside]

friend has told me eastern to withdraw flights from manchester can
anyone confirm this have tried to book online for december
but response is no flight available
It wasnt that long ago Eastern added a 4th daily to STN, and awarded a new handling contract at MAN

EDIT - Eastern website shows last flight 28th of this month

[Wellington Bomber]

When Eastern originally operated Manchester - Stansted it was a very profitable route and had lots of supporters.

Unfortunately, when Air Berlin operated this route and offered fares at next to nothing the passenger thought that Eastern were taking the mick with prices. Obviously Air Berlin could not sustain the low fares as they soon pulled of the route.

Eastern then restarted the service but only got the really loyal supporters of the original service at the appropriate fares to justify a regular service 3 to 4 times a day. Sadly not enough people returned and therefore the service has ended. Well done LCC's

[brown1950]

Eastern could be a bit premature with stopping the service Manchester-Stansted with AirAsia X due to commence service to Kuala Lumpur in March09 ?

[Skipness One Echo]

What's the point of connecting onto a flight to Manchester that will cost as much as your flight from Asia????? That's nuts!

[virginblue]

So with "just" 2 more Saab 2000s arriving and a need for at least 4 additional Saabs for the Shetland's contract AND the new AMS route, which routes will face a downgrade from the Saab 2000 to the Jetstream 41?

[PaulW]

The current saab fleet is not used purely for schedule, one saab based in norwich and two in aberdeen that leaves three purely for charter work plus, the two joining. So I doubt any flights will be downgraded.

[Wheeliebin]

What is the general feeling, within Eastern, regards all Aberdeen Flightline employees becoming part of Eastern? This due to the "TUPE" regulations requiring them to continue operating on the Scatsta contract.

[StraightLevel]

Do you know for definite that they will be automatically "TUPE'd" accross to Eastern?

Have a look at:

TUPE - a guide to the regulations (http://www.tssa.org.uk/article-46.php3?id_article=1382)

Quote below from above website:

Transfers not covered by the Regulations

The Regulations do not apply to the following:
http://www.tssa.org.uk/puce.gif transfers by share take-over because, when a company’s shares are sold to new shareholders, there is no transfer of the business - the same company continues to be the employer;
http://www.tssa.org.uk/puce.gif transfers of assets only (for example, the sale of equipment alone would not be covered, but the sale of a going concern including equipment would be covered);
http://www.tssa.org.uk/puce.gif transfers of a contract to provide goods or services where this does not involve the transfer of a business or part of a business;
http://www.tssa.org.uk/puce.gif transfers of undertakings situated outside the United Kingdom.

Looks like the third one down applies to Eastern's aquisition of the IAC contract.

[Wheeliebin]

I believe TUPE applies. I also understand that the management of both Airlines accept that it applies.

Most importantly perhaps, Bristows and the IAC who will ultimately will be meeting the costs involved, expect it to be applied.

[mini-jumbo]

StraightLevel

I believe the website you've linked to may be out of date.

The TUPE regulations were revised in 2006. As a result, TUPE now applies to contracts being re assigned, where as before the revision, as you stated, it wouldn't have applied.

The new regulations can be found here: http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file20761.pdf

[StraightLevel]

Thanks for that mini-jumbo.

I assumed t'internet was the information super highway with all the relevant/uptodate info at your fingertips. I was wrong. Lesson learned.:O

Sorry if I have misled anyone.

I'll re-ask Wheeliebin's original question on his behalf below.

"What is the general feeling, within Eastern, regards all Aberdeen Flightline employees becoming part of Eastern? This due to the "TUPE" regulations requiring them to continue operating on the Scatsta contract."

[Meeb]

I think you will find that TUPE in Aviation is more restricted than in general industry.

As usual with aviation any rights the workers have is secondary to the almighty dollar... :rolleyes:

Flightline employees will not have right of transfer to Eastern. :*

[Flightrider]

I think wheeliebin is right - the right of TUPE does exist and I understand that both airlines have accepted that employees will be TUPE'd across to Eastern along with the contract.

[Wheeliebin]

Meeb

In this case it will apply. Lawyers have given their assurance, and the customer is paying for the extra cost involved. In the fullness of time, this will prove to be the case. Therefore back to my original post, I was interested in the general feeling, within the two companies, on the forthcoming integration of crews.

[PaulW]

This is all just speculation. So in the fullness in time all will be revealed. Eastern always need new cabin crew in ABZ i can see them being used, but flight crew, they are still employed by Flightline, Eastern are not taking on the flightlines assets ie its aircraft so why would crew come with the contract. One company loses business another gains it. Its in flightlines interest now to get other business and keeps its crews employed. Anyway the cabin crew are much more likely to be local than the majority of the flight crew. Not sure why you would want to refuse duties other than skatsta, would you like to go to sardinia or switzerland for the week, or an early stavangar and be back by half nine in the morning.. No I wont to sit around in a wet and windy airport crew room for hours waiting for a helicopter to arrive.

[Wheeliebin]

Flatbroke

I agree it's good news for Flightline management - no relocation or redundancy costs. Probably not too bad for Eastern either. The numbers taking the TUPE will be relatively high, I would guess, in the current climate and the fact that they all live in Aberdeen.

[Mister Geezer]

Flightline will probably have no need for any of the ABZ crew it makes sense to transfer those over. Some of the crews do not wish to move to a prop but some will be happy to remain in ABZ so there will be mixed feelings I guess.

Paul W

Most of the flight crew will be doing their best to make sure they only operate to SCS and do nothing else. Those who wish to remain in ABZ do so for the lifestyle and not necessarily the flying. The thought of being exposed to the rest of the Eastern network will hold little appeal since that will not give them the free weekends in addition to the civilised working hours that they enjoy.

[Wheeliebin]

A little bit of Scatsta experience on the flightdeck would not be a bad thing on a black, wet & windy morning in mid winter. I believe Eastern have asked if Flightline pilots can be released for training prior to Feb 7, which is rumoured to be approved.

[PaulW]

on the saab different on the jetstream, you get most weekends off, so no change. Why be so negative..

[Mister Geezer]

on the saab different on the jetstream, you get most weekends off, so no change. Why be so negative..

I am not being negative but just telling you how it is. The majority of the Flightline crews in ABZ have been around the European racetrack and are more than happy to potter up and down to the Shetlands and have no desire to go to anywhere else. You can't blame them really when a late finish is getting back after 1800! This could change under Eastern but it is unlikely to be as hectic as the Eastern scheduled network.

I believe Eastern have asked if Flightline pilots can be released for training prior to Feb 7, which is rumoured to be approved.

Was that a Pig zooming past my front door??? :}

[Wheeliebin]

Mr G,

If there is money in for Flightline (crews from down Sth bought in for those released will be charged to IAC) believe me they will do it.

WB

[Mister Geezer]

You have to have the crews first and here lies the problem. A handful at the very most will be able to go early onto a Saab course but that will be at a push.

[PaulW]

Your living in a dream world, you think Eastern dont have the crews to operate Skatsta on Feb 9th? The Fos are hardly doing any work at the moment because the company is so busy line training new direct entry captains and fos at the moment. Aside from that, Eastern aircraft have occasionally been into Skatsta before, and certainly have pilots that have been there before. Its Cat C for us so crews will be getting training for it anyway. Eastern have a few other oil contract routes, I dont remember pilots from the companies that Eastern successfully bid against, being tuped across, its not gonna happen this time. In time, certainly Eastern will offer an olive branch to one or two local captains, who, they know will stay because they want to be in Aberdeen, when they apply, but it wont be tupe. The cabin crew may well be offered postions on eastern ts and cs, like I said before Eastern always need cabin crew in Aberdeen.

Ive just changed shopping from my local tesco to asda, will they be tupe-ing over some staff, I dont think so.

[Wheeliebin]

Not sure who's in the dream world ? If you have the management of both companies in agreement that TUPE applies to Flightdeck, I would assume it's going to happen. Also, I think you'll find the vast majority of pilots are settled in ABZ.

[PaulW]

Well we shall see what happens then, we have crews for eight saabs on line or in training and currently have six. We are in the midst of line training lots of new recruits for these new aircraft, if the majority of ABZ flightline crews were coming across that would be difficult to understand. Im only telling you what is happening right now. Whether its what you want to hear or not thats up to you. One or two flightline pilots may get jobs but not the whole base, thats the future which has yet to be decided. Ask yourself these questions? How could Easterns Aberdeen base absorb a whole bases worth of crew? Would you be busy training new pilots if you had a load coming anyway from another airline? I wouldnt be too complacent about automatically coming to Eastern and start applying; which I'm sure you are. We do need a few jetstream captains tho.. Hey if it happens well done, thats a great deal you will have secured, and everyone at aberdeen will look forward to flying with you.

[airfixed]

Unfortunately PW you appear not to understand the law reagrding TUPE. This is quite different from merely changing your supermarket allegence. The law is there to protect workers on an existing contract when that contract is awarded to another supplier. Therefore ALL Flightline employees who have been involved in the IAC contract must by law be taken on by Eastern. The employer (and the employees) have no option. If a Flightline pilot, engineer, check in staff etc... do not want to be TUPE'd they must resign without any redundancy - and I think that extremely unlikely. If Eastern do not want to employ them then after a specific period of time they must give the employee notice and pay them redundancy.
As I understand it both parties have accepted that TUPE applies and the IAC have insisted that it is observed by Eastern. How Eastern deal with this and the potential issues it will no doubt raise with it's existing employees only time will tell - but I wish them the best of luck.

[Wellington Bomber]

If and it is a big IF, flightline crews are TUPE'd across Eastern will have to offer them a job.

But it will be on Eastern terms and conditions and that means a big drop in salary for flightline crews. They have then the option of taking it or lumping it, their choice.

Eastern have been in this position before with BA Citiexpress, do not forget

[househunter]

sorry its not on Easterns terms if you are TUPE you stay on the same terms and conditions. Your pay remains the same. Eastern can then try and buy you out of your contract, but that is what happens with TUPE.

[Wheeliebin]

Correct. Flightline crew's terms and conditions remain unchanged under the TUPE regs 2006. Integrating them on the ABZ - SCS contract is the responsibility of Eastern.

Also of note, is that under the regulations, crews at Eastern ...."whose jobs might be affected by the transfer." must be "informed and consulted" through their representatives.

[Canadian]

Quote from ACAS website:

"Which transfers are not covered?

TUPE does not apply to:
transfer of a contract to provide goods or services where this doesn't involve the transfer of a business or part of a business."

Is a business transfer taking place? The Flightline aircrew aren't employed by IAC. Perhaps TUPE only applies to the ground staff?

[j41cac]

Sorry to change subject but what a missed op by RL for the IOM - LCY. Now Aer Arran to do 3 daily flights with ATR 72 and being subsidised by IOM GOV. :ugh:

Although id rather them than be

[mini-jumbo]

Canadian

The TUPE regulations were revisied in 2006. The regulations can be found on the BERR (Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform) website.

"Subject to certain qualifing conditions, the Regulations apply:

a) when a business or undertaking, or part of one, is transferred to a new employer; or

b) when a "service provision change" takes place (for example, where a contractor takes on a contract to provide a service for a client from another contractor)."

Quoted from the 2006 regulations - Part 1 - Overview of the TUPE Regulations.

Having looked at the ACAS website, it appears to contradict the published regulations in this respect. However, as had been stated, both companies agree that TUPE does apply.

[Canadian]

If both companies agree then why has Eastern already recruited a substantial number of extra pilots to crew the new aircraft?

[mini-jumbo]

I have no idea why Eastern are heavily recruiting. The IAC contract was only awared to them 2 weeks ago. Thats pretty quick recruitment if they've already got all the required crews for the contract. Looks like there will be a few (or a lot) more come Feb 6th then.

[Wheeliebin]

It would appear that Eastern (management) may not have initially realised the implications of TUPE with regards the transfer of flightdeck, although they certainly do now and have accepted it. I would assume that they (Eastern management) will now "advise and consult" with their crews whose jobs are affected as per Part 5 (b) 2006 TUPE.

[peeriebreeks]

As the Skatsta contract is only for a short interim period, will TUPE not be de-valued? May be better to get your redundancy and enter the market?

[mini-jumbo]

TUPE applies, therefore there is no choice. All Flightline crew (ground staff, engineers, cabin crew, flightdeck, ops staff) have to accept it and transfer, or resign. Flightline is not responsible for redundancy therefore if they resign they will get no redundancy. In addition, the market isn't all that good just now, so the best option for the majority will be to transfer albeit with the prospect of doing it again in 16 months.

[C195]

As Flightline have parked their MD80s and put crews on unpaid leave, I would expect the crews in ABZ to be happy to move to Eastern. Flightline is not doing well. In the current economic climate having a job is a good starting point, even if you intend to look for another one.

[peeriebreeks]

Flightline Gone under last night. The SAAB's are starting today, two months early!

[HUYHedgeHog]

With Flightline going under that should bring an end to all this TUPE nonsense, no?

There are a number of EZE flights showing on the board at ABZ from Sumburgh presumably for IAC? Have Eastern got the new Saabs yet, they're gonna need them sooner than they thought!

[Hudson Bay]

I'm not so sure if TUPE applies and whether the company would merge the seniority lists. I would of thought the crews would join on the tail end. Under the present situation I don't think anybody would object. In any case the lists are only ever used for redundancy purposes and leave allocation.

[BYALPHAINDIA]

It would have made sense for T3 & FLT to merge before FLT's demise yesterday.

But, then T3 would have maybe had too many crews to look after?

If the contract is for x amount of months then the additional crews would maybe have been out on the road later than now?

I hope T3 can help out ex FLT crews at this hard time.

[AviationNE]

Eastern are operating to Sumburgh instead of scatsa in the short term as crews are not yet trained for Scatsa arrivals.

[Red Four]

Relevant article here,seems that HIAL at Sumburgh will have done well out of this weeks event, with lots of extra flights:
Sumburgh gains as Flightline goes (http://www.shetland-news.co.uk/news_12_2008/Sumburgh%20gains%20as%20Flightline%20goes.htm)

[mmeteesside]

Are Eastern really short of Saabs or pilots?
I assume there are 3 on the IAC contract, 1 appears to be working on the Aberdeen-Newcastle-Southampton tomorrow with an ATR72 on the Stavangers (with a trip to Newcastle early afternoon) and an ERJ135 working the Norwich-Aberdeens. So where are the other 2 Saabs :confused:

[Cpt. Chaos]

So if they have 6 SAABs and 4 are accounted for (3 on IAC and the other on the ABZ-SOU).... as MME said where are the other two... :confused:

Also it begs the question where are the two new ones, one of which was due last week?? :mad:

[NickBarnes]

The first new one was due Dec 3rd and the other one is due Dec 15th

[tangoecho]

There is also one parked at the Eastern Hanger at ABZ. I'm sure there are 5 here all together.

stu...

[garrygaz]

The thing is Eastern are pretty smart, they have a E135 and a ATR72 operating some of their scheduled Saab routes, thus allowing their new client to get used to the Saab. They didn't get where they are now by not thinking ahead.

GG

[Cpt. Chaos]

GG I agree that RL is a very astute man... I've seen it personally... however it still leaves questions unanswered..

[slamaccel]

Saw an Eastern SAAB2000 parked in Eindhoven earlier this week following paint job!

[jamestkirk]

Yes, its a new one on the fleet.

[Wellington Bomber]

The afore mentioned beast is now in Humberside REG G- FLUV

[jetstreamtechrecords]

goes in frequently, most months lots of different destinations mainly europe. No local charter competition out of GCI:ok:

[Wellington Bomber]

Somebody in the Coventry area

[mmeteesside]

Anybody know who is behind the regular Haugesund - Durham Tees charters usually run on a weekend (Fri/Sat/Sun) :confused: Presume its some gas or oil company or other chemicals? Usually uses a J41.

[Affretage]

mmeteesside

Why do you need to know ? Are your pitching for the busineess ?

Salutations
Affretage

[mmeteesside]

No I'm just interested as I live near MME. I was thinking it had to be related to an oil or gas company given there is loads of them in this area! :)

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Oh yep, and how's your Maintenance Management Exposition?:= This business is nicely locked up so :mad:hands off.:ouch:

[5711N0205W]

Guys unless there is some humour in your responses that I'm missing give the guy a break, check his posting history and you'll see he's an enthusiast :) in these days of gloom it's good to see some enthusiasm :ugh:

No need to come over all aggressive secret squirrel, if you don't know or don't want to contribute in a meaningful way then say bugger all! :ugh:

[paarmo]

Well said numbers in the pub

[Richard Taylor]

I'm sure mmeteesside is no threat to Eastern's business! Unless he's a budding Baby Branson! :E

There is usually a T3 J41 positions into ABZ from HAU on a Sun evening, I assume it's all connected to the aforementioned charter.

[learjet50]

Stupid comment about mme teesside as you say he is only an enthusiast

Its not Willy Walsh (Although I suspect he could do a better job)

Leave MME alone he means no harm just intrested to see his local airport get more business.

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Sorry bout that MME:{ comes of a hard year ducking :mad:Exeter low balls makes you a bit bah humbug. Happy posting 2009:ok:

[BAladdy]

Just noticed on a aircraft sale/leasing site that 4 J41's which are currently in T3's fleet are now up for sale/lease.

J41 For Sale or Lease on SpeedNews (http://www.speednews.com/EquipmentResults.aspx?Search=Aircraft&Aircraft=J41)

The aircraft are:

MSN015 - G-MAJW
MSN098 - G-MAJX
MSN099 - G-MAJY
MSN100 - G-MAJZ

The aircraft in question have been with T3 less than two years. Was the original lease meant to be just for 2 years ??

Does anyone know the reason for these aircraft leaving??. Especially since G-MAJX/Y and Z are the newest J41's in T3's fleet. .

[Wellington Bomber]

BA Laddy

These a/c were actually bought out of the desert for nect to nothing and done up not leased as per the ex BA ones

[Mister Geezer]

A bit dramatic I think.....

tatty, tired and revolting. Smelly, drab, uncomfortable and noisy.

[j41cac]

They're not that bad. 41's are a bit old now but suit RL's model. Although i cant deny that they are lookin a bit tired inside a few of them.

I wonder whats next for this outfit as they never seem to grow, maybe
thats why they're still around.


:)

[Odi]

Now that you've been doing it for a few weeks, how are you finding the Scatsta run? Any questions, queries, observations on the service you receive from us on Sumburgh Radar?

[Cloud Chaser]

See PPJN now mentions the possibility of a few E145's to free up the Saabs.
Would anyone in the know, care to comment how likely this is?

[planenut321]

Didn't EZE used to have ERJ145's?

[airhumberside]

Yes they did a few years ago

[Richard Taylor]

If memory serves, they have operated both E135 & E145, before deciding the Saab 2000 fitted their Business Model better. So an interesting reversal of viewpoint if they are going back to the Junglie.

Guess they must think they can pick up Embraers relatively cheaply & make them work.

They have been using a SE-reg 145 on NWI-ABZ of late.

[Cpt. Chaos]

The E145 is on wet lease from City Airline, as the Eastern SB20 are all being utilised for the Scatsta run and other commitments, along with training of crew.
It is not a reversal in company model it is just that for the time being whilst IAC are covering the cost for Eastern to do the Scatsta run, after the sad demise of Flightline, until their official contract starts, Eastern have farmed out some of their work.
RL is not daft and it is probably saving him some money.