MAD SID clearance records

[alexban]

HY.Anyone here working in MAD ATC?
I wonder if it's possible to find out what SID was assigned to a particular flight,and how long these recordings are kept? Voice records or paper?
We receive from time to time notifications regarding some of our flights not flying properly on one particular SID,but we never got clearance to fly that particular SID,instead of that, we got another one which is very close by.
I would like to know where to ask for the SID clearances records,in order to finally solve this missunderstanding with MAD airport.
Anybody else encountered this kind of problem?
Brgds

[Brian81]

In the uk, as far as I know, if you are on a SID it is 'written' on the flight progress strip and ticked when you read it back to us correctly. These are kept locally for a period of time. I'm not sure if the case is the same outside of the UK.
The tapes that record the radio transmissions from both sides will also be kept for a period of time, but again, outside the UK, I have no idea how long.

Hope this helps.

:ok:

[Plumaveloz]

HY.Anyone here working in MAD ATC?
Nop, at Valencia ACC, but I may help.
I wonder if it's possible to find out what SID was assigned to a particular flight,and how long these recordings are kept? Voice records or paper?
Voice and video (radar screens) records are kept for one month. If no claim or incident has happened during this time, they are eliminated. Flight strips "last" even less.
We receive from time to time notifications regarding some of our flights not flying properly on one particular SID,but we never got clearance to fly that particular SID,instead of that, we got another one which is very close by.
Are the Atcos on duty telling you that you are not flying "properly" or your company gets paper reports after some days? Which is the SID that causes the problem? I can send you the lasts charts so you can check them with yours.

Á.

[alexban]

The complaints are from SIRMA system,regarding not flying correctly on BAN1R departure . Our problem was that the clearance was PINAR1R,which was barely different from BAN1R . I noticed that in the Spanish AIP those procedures are identical,but in JEPPESEN ,they were different. Few days ago,jeppesen ammended those procedures,so now are like the AIP.
The flight was in june,but we got the complaint in first week of august...so a bit late for voice records...
There seems to be a problem with this Sirma system,we got also another 2 complaints,both compared with a clearance not received,and one other for a wrong plane (different company). Also one for a flight that departed from 36L instead of 36R (which was said in the complaint)..
We got no complaint from the Atco's during any of these flights.
We got no reply from the SIRMA investigator,and now we are doing departures from LEMD in raw data,just to avoid any chance of mapshift,or anything....It's a bit of stress,particulary that we also got a small fine,for the june flight,less than 20000 euros,but....
Anyone else experiencing this problem with Mad authorities?

[Plumaveloz]

Hello again:

Sirma systems mainly measure noise and check traffic to be acording noise abatement procedures. I doubt that the systems itself has access to the ATC records, but I will ask for further information. Anyway, if you can let SIRMA know what the aircraft has performed that day (I figure out you keep track of your flights), that will be a good point to argue whith them. I know for sure that when ATCOs instruct a plane and they think this actuation may cause a noise abatement procedures´ violation, they have to fill a detailed report on the "incident".

We have quite often problems about differences between Jeppesen ans spanish AIP charts. Just to mention that the only. I know they are made under the controller point of view, not to good to fly on them, but they are the law. I have even written a couple of times to the Jeppesen webmaster (as simple as [email protected]) identifying myself in order to let them know the problems we have, and all the times, they answered me, get rid of the differences and I´ve got an dvd with all the european charts and a Christmas postcard every year. :)

Regards,

Á.