Merged: Joyce Thread

[Agent Mulder]

Black Ban Joyce

Imagine if the following scenario occurred:

Morning flight to Sydney from Melbourne at the gate ready for departure.

Seated in 1A is a little man travelling under the name of Joyce Mr A. Suddenly over the P.A. comes the dulcet tone of the overpaid under worked uncompetitive Captain:

“Ladies and Gentlemen welcome aboard your CityFlyer service this morning, my name is Captain I’m Speaking and I have the pleasure of flying you to your destination. Assisting me today is First Officer I’m Listening and our multi award winning Cabin Crew led by Customer Service Manager Ms. Despite Management.

We have completed all of our pre-flight formalities and are ready to depart however we seem to have located a small problem. We, the crew, value your custom as I am sure you value the quality of service you receive.

We have, however, in our midst an individual who has taken delight in attacking the professional standards by which we operate. The passenger in seat 1A, in an attempt to justify the salaries and conditions of his employees, has used the media to attack the conditions under which I convey you to your destination today. This despite the fact that he earns in excess of one million dollars per annum and my meagre salary should be the least of his concerns.

The level of animosity in his constant ranting has left me with no other option than to consider him a risk to the safe operation of this aircraft. His vitriol in the press has shown that he has an intrinsic dislike of Qantas Aircrew (both tech and cabin) and as such I cannot expose you, our customers, to the possibility of him being a disruptive passenger in his pursuit of his all elusive bonus.

To that end, I will not be departing this aeroplane until such time as Mr. Joyce disembarks. Should Mr. Joyce wish to travel to Sydney by other means there is a flight leaving Avalon in approximately one hour. YOU HAVE THIRTY MINUTES TO CHECK IN. I am sure that you will feel much safer with your competitive employees than with us here today.

We are sorry to have inconvenienced you.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I appreciate your patience whilst we disembark this potentially disruptive passenger, and trust that your confidence in us remains unwavering. It is our pleasure to have you onboard.

Please sit back, relax, and enjoy the QANTAS service.”

[aircraft]

Extremely unlikely scenario. The Captain would be sacked but the flight would go ahead (if a bit late).

And I'm sure that more than a few passengers would express something along the lines of "Huh? What was all that about? Our Captain sounds like a raving loony! Let's get off this flight!"

[Buster Hyman]

...Just then, Jack Bauer pops up out of the cabin floor and...

[Vee Won Kutt]

...with champagne in one hand and a gun in the other, heads straight for Ms. Despite, who.......

[Agent Mulder]

Never underestimate the public dislike of Executives and their million dollar salaries.

Sacked heh! The ramifications would be extremely detrimental to Executive Bonuses and 66% increases in salary. Be funny to watch the roll up at the friday afternoon "Golf Man". Need four hours for the tee offs. And a bigger fuel truck for all flights. Threats are ineffective against those legally charged with command. Try it though, be great to watch the outcome. (Remember many people learnt from 89 not just the current Exec and their greenfield man).

Off tangent. Anyone know why James (bowtie) was invited by Margaret to join the Board without Geoff's knowledge?

Word is that the recruiting process is well underway for the next CEO and it isn't internal. Maybe someone with significant experience in turning Companies around and re-engaging (dreadful word) employees is what is sought.

Wondered why Gregg is getting some press courtesy of Dixon? Wondered why another in the running doesn't seem to agree with the direction being taken all of a sudden?

May we live in interesting times?

[Agent Mulder]

... points at the gnome in seat 1A and says .......

[Point0Five]

It almost seems like they're trying to set up a leisure airline as opposed to a business one.

[woftam]

Maybe that's why GD and AJ have gone for the "I'm so cool" no tie and jacket look?
:cool:

[hoss]

yeah, whats with those photographs of Dixon at the 'oneworld do' and in the group picture Dixon is the only CEO not wearing a tie. totally embarassing and the clown should be shot:mad: .

[Baxter Dewall]

Hoss, spot on mate.

God forbid if you were to walk out the the a/c without one's cap or didn't have one's wings attached to one's shirt. Tea and bikkies with TM.

What a load of :mad: . Talk about not looking at the big picture here!

But that's ok as all is now fixed because the EBA got up. What problems, there are no problems here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ugh:

Baxter

[Pass-A-Frozo]

I think you should say :

"oh.. and ladies and gentlemen..when I say meagre salary. I mean I only earn around $180,000 per annum. That's right.. probably 3 times the salary of most you"

[air med]

agent mulder
Do you work for JS???

[Eagleman]

Surely if Mr Joyce is true to his product, he would be on JQ

But, if he had to fly QF, surely he would travel economy?

[Cloud Basher]

... stop touching me Mr Joyce...

[J430]

Gents, just an observation, and I agree that much of the bitching here is casued by execs attitudes, but I notice that if they don't wear a tie they get bashed, and if like James Strong did, he gets bashed.........what does one do?:confused:

Cheers
J:ok:

[Buster Hyman]

I think James Strong would have endeared himself to many if that Bow Tie spun a little...or squirted water.
http://www.webtree.ca/smile/pg1/bucktooth.gif

[ContactMeNow]

Maybe that's why GD and AJ have gone for the "I'm so cool" no tie and jacket look?
:cool:

After having the opportunity to have dinner with "old mate" AJ once, the question arose as to why he chooses not to wear a tie. His response was somewhere along the lines of "the relaxed looked" and then he went on to say that the flying publis will see that the CEO's (implying himself and GD) are not all up themselves and they are human as well. Plus going for that look will make the punlis feel that the airline is alot more accommodating.

On a side note he likes to have a few and loves his red! :ok:

CMN :ok:

[hoss]

sure, but in a business environment where a dozen or so Airline CEOs are gathered I would expect a the wearing of a suit and tie(or bow tie;) ).

something about 'when in Rome.............'.

:)

[domo]

the reason he may not wear a tie may be security
nothing for a disgruntled employee/former employee to hold on to

[Pass-A-Frozo]

However , back to the topic

How do you get public support when you are complaining about either only earning something around $180,000 a year, or your pay not being increase (or lowered)?

Mr Moore took exception to the pay of pilots. However correct me if I'm wrong, he took exception to earing $23,000 US a year or something similar.

I seriously doubt anyone in the public would be rallying behind someone earning around $180,000 a year or more. People complain about managers in other industries earning far less than that.

Pilots (at the top scale) are well paid.. I don't think any average person on the street would support pilot's earning that much.. especially if QANTAS took the route of stating "If we could lower senior captain pay to $140K , we could lower ticket prices further. Of course most pilots will think "Well the ticket price won't be lower" .. however threads about Low Cost / Low price airlines would prove otherwise.

Thoughts?

[Chimbu chuckles]

Agreed...and anyone who thinks a captain making such a PA would ever captain an aircraft for said airline again is a moron.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Totally agree with you Chimbu. Just imagine if a Macca's drive through person started saying something similar.
" Welcome to McDonalds.. we'd serve good food but since I'm paid so little I cannot assure you that you'll get good food"

[Keg]

PAF- if you do the maths the difference isn't significant.

Assuning same stick hours (which would be the case on 737 and 767 and A320 domestic ops) the difference in crew costs between J* pilots and QF pilots is about 0.1 cents/ ASK. That means for SYD-MEL the price difference is going to be about a dollar. For SYD-PER it is going to be about $5.

I'll leave it up to you to decide if prices will go down! ;)

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Hey Keg,

So what was the initial post supposed to be about???

I was agreeing that a Captain making such an announcement would have the career prospects of a Maccas drive through working telling you that you are eating s***

[maralinga]

Easy, I can earn $130 000 a year as an electrician in todays market, $180 000 is peanuts ;)

[PARC-JALEX pilot]

and $6 MILLION a year + First Class travel + free ski holidays at Margie's boyfriend's resort in Japan, all for showing no initiative, but just shafting staff is a tad more than the average Aussie makes (in 10 lifetimes).

How come both of those QF CEO's add up to less than 4 metres when laid end to end? (Which will hopefully happen SOONER, rather than later!)

[Uncle Festa]

Parc-Jalex

Not quite sure where you're getting your $6.0M plus figures from each of GD and AJ.

Also not quite sure of the relevance of 4 metres given that, on average, GD and AJ would both have to be 6' 6" in the old money - I suspect that most pairs of PPRuNErs would fail that test.

:* :* :*

BTW I do not work and never have worked for QF and I try to avoid flying on this airline unless there is no other real alternative. This means domestic sectors here in Australia . . . but that's another story. :( :( :(

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Word is that the 180K that Joyce mentioned, that everyone thought was the entire package, (super, allowances, lifetime supply of vaseline etc...) is actually the current offer for outside drivers to come and work for them. Even then it seems they are having a little trouble getting suitably qualified pilots to sign up.

Word also is that the C&T guys are on 230K plus. If this is true then it makes a mockery of both Joyce's line about the current market rates, and the "prescience "of the JPC and their reading of that market because, in the mean time, any current J* pilot will only get the 152K agreed to.:rolleyes:

[bananahead]

Sorry to blow your bubble that it would never happen Chimbu & Frozo...

But it has actually happened and YES the Captain did keep his job.

Happened in the US, Capt refused to fly CEO due to safety reasons (almost pretty much what was said is a copy of the original post actually)...and in the interests of safety he was removed.

After all the following s*** shower that ensued, it was obvious of the angst that was caused by the said exec and how it was a safety concern.

But you are correct to say it would never happen at Jetstar...

[Pete Conrad]

Word is that the 3 guys that have accepted an offer to come to Pornstar from Dubai will only accept if given an A320 checkies job straight away as part of the deal.

Borg, as per the JPC signing of the widebody addition, the 152K is binding in perpetuity or until they sign AWA's.

[Jetsbest]

For all the talk of expats returning from EK I know of at least one, with 777 and A330/340 endorsements who's politely declined a job offer when J* called. Something about c#%p T & Cs.

Still, each to their own and some are obviously finding the prospect acceptable enough, especially given the anecdotes of 'special' promotions to the 'special pay' of training positions in order to place them outside the prospects of demotion in a few years time under the J* seniority system.

The game is never over, but I'm waiting to see if the 1000s of applicants equate to a fully crewed airline in time. :suspect:

[Australia2]

Jetbest,

The same response has been given to the J* people from several here at KA for the same reasons.

It will be interesting to see if they are telling the truth re their numbers claims.

Oz2

[Brindabella]

That is as funny as hell.

I didnt realise he was so short.... so I gues he can't be a "complete prick" as Julian suggests....

[Boney]

Well I am glad AJ finds it all abit funny.

There are plenty of pilots who have struggled financially for many years to get to a stage be considered for an airline. They would also like to actually buy their first home for their family or actually start one before their gonads pack it in but won't be able to because they have to give this cretin 35K for a job - yeah real funny AJ?????

[murgatroid]

I didnt realise he was so short.... so I gues he can't be a "complete prick" as Julian suggests

GD will only ever trust (and use) anyone shorter than him. Kind of a mini-me thing I guess.

[sumtingwong]

Ahh The Chaser.....Love your work!!:D

[Vee Won Kutt]

Surely something like that would make him stop and think! "Prick's" the right word.
There is something completely wrong for charging for an interview - no matter how you look at it!
They did well to find him.

[GUARD]

I don't really think its about harnessing support from Joe Public.

It's about supply and demand. I truly believe the supply is drying up and the demand is growing. Dixon/Joyce and the boys just put their jack boot plans in motion with little thought given to ...how many pilots are actually around that want to SPEND $38000 to then EARN $82000 ( NOT $100000 ).

That mythical $100000 assumes overtime taking you up to the max stick hours contained within the dispensation.

Let them eat cake and lets see how many of the 1000 applicants roll up with a cheque.

GUARD! :)

[Mstr Caution]

I'm sure AJ was charged about $1200 bucks for his CEO interview considering the $1m package. So what's the problem.:8

[jack red]

On the money GUARD :ok:

I've been saying the same thing for the past two months now.;)

[max autobrakes]

As my old man always said,
"Never trust a man with a limp dick handshake"
Old AJ must need a lot of Viagra then! :}

[Sunfish]

There are some companies around that try and cultivate a unique "Corporate culture". By charging for an interview, Jetstar is basically sending out a message that they are as mean as cat****, and that everyone who wants to work for them had better understand that.

Of course from their perspective, they would believe that the charge offsets the cost of staff selection and more importantly acts as a pre processing filter that keeps away the tire kickers and other time wasters - a savvy management technique if you like.

I once worked for a public company that prided itself on being as mean as cat****, to the point where the MD refused the offer of a free car phone because he was worried that his sales force would want them if they saw he had one. Senior management deliberately cultivated meanness and a totally ruthless and obsessive focus on cost cutting to the point of lunacy. I mean who else would put a factory dunny right in the middle of the production floor so that foreman could see who was using it?

Our division was treated with great suspicion because by accident we were housed in a very modern premesis with every amenity, instead of a run down 1930's building furnished with army surplus office furniture. We were also working with computers, wrote software and sold stuff that was high tech for a lot of money. Performance, not cost was our chief concern.

Needless to say the public company, once a household name, doesn't exist anymore, because their management decisions were always skewed.

I also knew a company whose managers bought race horses among themselves and cultivated a really "ockka" footballish attitude. The lawsuits from female staff didn't help much. They went under too.

The trouble of course is that if your "corporate culture" is too much at variance with social norms, then eventually you run the risk of losing employees and not attracting sufficient replacements because of your bad reputation. Most people thrive on recognition and a genuine care for their wellbeing.

[WalterMitty]

I nominate Sunfish for QF CEO !!!:ok:

[mostie]

Be carefull what you wish for.

Sunfish comes second for hating Qantas.

First place being held of course by dixon :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Sunfish]

Ah Ha! But the difference is that I could:} change!