End of an Era [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

Beeayeate

31st Jul 2006, 23:33

Kemble today at approx 12:15, the last to land PR.9 (XH131) shut down in RAF service. The last three PR.9s from 39 Sqn - XH131, XH134 and XH135 - were flown in to a blustery Kemble and recieved by Falcon Air and Delta Jets.

Later in the sun, the three last Canberras sat lined up on Kemble's lazy with 39 Sqn ground crews removing various bits of kit.

http://www.canberra.plus.com/pics/demobbed.jpg

So, after 55 years in service the Queen of the Skies retires. A relatively simple aircraft, exceedingly fit for purpose in all respects, sadly, we'll not see the like in service again - nor the sort of blokes and characters that worked it and flew it in strange and exotic locations around the world.

39 Sqn's stand down doesn't just mark the end of another squadron and another aircraft type, it marks the end of a era in the history of the RAF that began on a bright morning at RAF Binbrook on 25 May 1951 - 55 years ago.

Sad? Not really. All things come to an end I guess. But damn proud to have been part of it.

:ok:

Mods . . . if you consider this would now be be more apt in the Hist&Nost forum, so be it.
.

Conan the Librarian

31st Jul 2006, 23:42

Have some pictures of a great and historic day and am working on them now. You are right - it was a happy day and one of celebration rather than mourning. Even the rain just about held off.

Conan

Jackonicko

1st Aug 2006, 00:04

can any real insider tell us:

Which order did they land?
Who were the crews of each?
Who does each now belong to?
How many hours/cycles does each now have?

Why did they withdraw the RADEOS (the sensor that gave the Canberra its most useful capability) three years before the aircraft? Just so that a Canberra replacement would be 'easier'?

Beeayeate

1st Aug 2006, 00:13

Jacko
Which order did they land?
XH134, XH135, XH131

Who were the crews of each?
XH134 - "Ernie" and "Kim"
XH131 - Dave Piper and Wg Cmdr Clive Mitchel (the 'Boss')
XH135 - unknown.

Who does each now belong to?
Check with Falcon Air. Rumours still abound.

How many hours/cycles does each now have?
Again, check with Falcon Air (or a 39 Sqn bloke). But not a lot I think.

Why did they withdraw the RADEOS (the sensor that gave the Canberra its most useful capability) three years before the aircraft? Just so that a Canberra replacement would be 'easier'?

Probably. Makes a good conspiracy theory anyway.

:rolleyes:

Jackonicko

1st Aug 2006, 01:24

"But not a lot I think."

Not a lot left, you mean? Years ago all of the PR9s were close to their pressurisation cycle limit, and most were fast approaching 10,000 FH.

Thanks for the details.....

Didn't Terry Cairns fly one of them?

Rallye Driver

1st Aug 2006, 07:15

A few pics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/YakRider/ParkLo.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/YakRider/CrewsLo.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/YakRider/HugLo.jpg

RD :ok:

Beeayeate

1st Aug 2006, 07:36

Jacko
Not a lot left, you mean? Years ago all of the PR9s were close to their pressurisation cycle limit, and most were fast approaching 10,000 FH.
Purely my own thoughts but based on conversations with the groundcrew and others over the past couple or three years. Make of it what you will. There obviously must be some slack in the FI's and cycles otherewise astute business men wouldn't have purchased the airframes. Don't know about the Avons though.
Didn't Terry Cairns fly one of them?
No, Terry wasn't there. I see a pic of the 39 crews has now been posted.
.

H Peacock

1st Aug 2006, 07:47

Jacko

Who were the crews of each?
XH134 - "Ernie" and "Kim"
XH131 - Dave Piper and Wg Cmdr Clive Mitchel (the 'Boss')
XH135 - unknown.

Why did they withdraw the RADEOS (the sensor that gave the Canberra its most useful capability) three years before the aircraft? Just so that a Canberra replacement would be 'easier'?

Probably. Makes a good conspiracy theory anyway.

:rolleyes:

Gents, aircraft crews were:

XH134 - Flt Lt Ronnie Fairbrother + Sqn Ldr Garry Winwright.

XH135 - Flt Lt Ernie Taylor + Sqn Ldr Kim Smith.

XH131 - Sqn Ldr Dave Piper + Wg Cdr Clive Mitchell.

RADEOS was withdrawn early 05. The cost saving was used to help fund the extension of the Sqn from 31 Mar 06 to 31 Jul 06.

:)

Beeayeate

1st Aug 2006, 08:03

Sorry, had Ernie and Kim in wrong aircraft.

:\

A2QFI

1st Aug 2006, 08:04

I was lucky enough to fly the PR9 when it was first used on 13 Squadron in Cyprus. It was a challenging and hugely enjoyable first tour for a very young Pilot Officer! We spent a lot of time in Bahrain covering the now largely forgotten 'First' Gulf war, when Iraq threatened to annex Kuwait in 1961. The response involved Hunters, Beverleys, and Argosies later on and loads of ground troops, obviously.
13 Squadron's other tasks included the completion of the East Africa survey, flying over Yemen operating out of Aden, daily border recce in Kuwait and routine survey tasks around the Med. Before I joined the squadron there had been some operations in the Eastern Med which, I believe, involved a PR7 being shot down. Nothing much has ever been said about this and probably for good reason!

Proman

1st Aug 2006, 09:20

Cyprus 1963, NEAF, and as a (then) service brat the Canberras sometimes kept us awake at night across the bay from Aki in Paramali.

I asked my Dad what the noise was and heard 'Cameras'.

Thinking I'd misheard, I asked what they were used for. 'To take photographs', he replied. So I hadn't misheard, or so I thought.

It took me several years to work out the aerodynamics of these cameras...

:)

A2QFI

1st Aug 2006, 09:27

Proman
you have reminded me of another bit of nonsense which may have annoyed the locals. When there was a VIP visit at HQ NEAF they would get the visitors out onto a viewing point near the cliff edge, a PR9 would come low level across the bay and pull up, the while taking photos of the group. The a/c rushed back to Akrotiri, the film was processed and prints taken back by courier to be given to the guests after their lunch! We thought that was really sharp! Nowadays it would be done in under a minute by data link I suppose. Were you kept awake when we dropped Lepus flares in the bay at night? Not noisy but bl**dy bright!

bongof4

1st Aug 2006, 09:36

Looking for JC's email address

I was in East Sale yesterday and some of them remembered you, lost your email, anyone who knows him got it?

Thengo

charlies angel

1st Aug 2006, 09:48

Now with Myt :)

Conan the Librarian

1st Aug 2006, 12:25

Not as happy as I would like with the quality of the pictures, but it ain't going to happen again.
Conan
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/zorbathegeek/Personal%20Favourites/_JGN6020.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/zorbathegeek/Personal%20Favourites/_JGN6048.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/zorbathegeek/Personal%20Favourites/_JGN6067.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/zorbathegeek/Personal%20Favourites/_JGN6078.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/zorbathegeek/Personal%20Favourites/JGN6078NX.jpg

falcon12

1st Aug 2006, 12:43

Falcon Air on 01392 314054

Trumpet_trousers

1st Aug 2006, 21:49

Flt Lt Ronnie Fairbrother
...ah, 'Ronnie Redsheets' himself! :E Long time no hear....

nigelb

2nd Aug 2006, 13:10

Hmmm

A week or so ago, I could have sworn a Canberra flew overhead - one of these didn't by any chance head down to Duxford did it?

Nige

philrigger

2nd Aug 2006, 13:43

I have heard, but cannot confirm, that x2 PR9 will head down to South Africa to join the outfit that flies the Lightning and other things military and that 1 x PR9 will head for Switzerland.

'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

Belle and Sebastian

2nd Aug 2006, 13:45

All 3 Canberras did a round robin trip to all former bases and places that have been linked to its history. One of them probably flew over, but none of them went to Duxford as a final home.

nigelb

2nd Aug 2006, 14:23

Cool, thanks, thought I was going mad when I saw it!

Mind, living not that far away from Duxford, we do see a lot of wierd stuff fly by ;-)

Nige

Regie Mental

2nd Aug 2006, 15:36

Official line is indeed two to SA and one to Switzerland. Thing is, while I can fully appreciate the desire to spend one's hard earned lottery winnings on a jolly in an EE Ligthning, is there really a market to be strapped into the coal hole in the nose of a PR.9? I can think of cheaper and indeed more enjoyable ways to bring up my lunch. Or will they perhaps be used for something else I wonder?

philrigger

3rd Aug 2006, 08:14

I believe that the aircraft that are bound for South Africa are to be dismantled and transported in big piece parts. This is because they will be unable to get CAA clearance to take off from UK after they have been stripped of equipment in UK! I think, but am not sure that the same will apply to the aircraft bound for Switzeralnd.

'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

falcon12

3rd Aug 2006, 12:57

Being directly aware of the owners thoughts I think I can safely say that all three aircraft will rest at Kemble for a while until decisions can be properly made as to their future, be it flying or otherwise. I wonder where these rumours originate!

Flying can be done, under certain conditions, within the UK on a Permit to Ferry, meaning one positioning flight only. Apart from a few minor parts to refit, this could be achieved relatively quickly if need be.

Whilst lets say that the Canberra is not as 'sexy' as a Vulcan, everyone concered with these aircraft is well aware of the consequences of getting it wrong. Whats is Right will take time but not that much.

Old Speckled Aircrew

3rd Aug 2006, 14:41

My understanding from chatting at Kemble on Monday is that XH134 has been bought by Swiss business man Mike Davis, and that the aircraft is likely to stay in Britain, possibly Bournemouth and be offered up as a photo platform for commercial use. We’ll have to wait and see and who knows it could be a future airshow exhibit.

A2QFI

3rd Aug 2006, 14:59

Where are these intrepid PR9 owners going to source and store the horrid AVPIN needed for these aircraft. I know they have some at Bruntinghtorpe for their Lightnings (£3500 for 45 gallons) and Beachy Head must have some in SA. Who makes it these days and what is it used for apart from starting Lightning and PR9 engines?

Belle and Sebastian

4th Aug 2006, 11:01

I understand that AVPIN is made in China. The AVPIN is bought via India as I beleive there are restrictions in buying goods from the Chinese. The Chinese add it to their deisel engined cars in order for it to run efficiently or perhaps to run at all. The RN also use AVPIN as a starting system for the Seadart missile.

A2QFI

4th Aug 2006, 12:09

B&S. Thank you very much for that informative reply. It was always treated as VERY hazardous and nasty when used in PR9s. The idea of it being put in an internal combustion engine frightens me enormously and, at the price that applies, who could afford it?

Beeayeate

4th Aug 2006, 14:03

A couple of years ago there was a scheme to convert the 9s to air-start. I believe this was quietly dropped in light of their then impending retirement. See no reason why this idea couldn't be now be followed through.

However, this talk is only meaningful if there is an intention to continue flying one or more of these airframes on a regular basis. Have seen no real confirmation, or otherwise, that this is the case. If it happens, my feeling is the new owner(s) will solve the problem; if not, there's no problem to solve.

Interesting discussion though - Avpin also makes the finest weed-killer in the galaxy. When used, with care, around the hangar you will never get any more weeds . . . or grass . . . or flowers . . . or insects!!

:ok:

Oblique96

4th Aug 2006, 14:15

AVPIN.............but, aaah the smell of it. Just gets you in the right mood for the 1500 nm night navex!

Tim Mills

7th Aug 2006, 12:12

Never flew a PR9, so no Avpin experience, only cartridges for us. And I we only did 1200 NM night or day navexs, sofar as I remember. Quite far enough for someone brought up on Meteors and Vampires!

Great pictures of the last arrivals at Kemble, I hope they keep flying. Who would have thought that the aircraft I first saw pictures of, as a prototype, when I was a cadet at Cranwell, would outlast my not very illustrious RAF career by 34 years, and my total flying career by 17 years before it retired!

Got about 1000 enjoyable hours in them after not being able to catch them in my Meatbox in the early 50s, and strangely, the first job I had as a civilian was back on Canberras, flying German registered ones, with Luftwaffe navigators, out of Cologne, doing photo survey and radar calibration work. Good fun too.

Great aeroplane, really enjoyed it.

chevvron

7th Aug 2006, 13:23

AVPIN (Iso-propyl-nitrate) was used in the early '60s as a rocket fuel by a company in the USA, which built both direct thrust motors and a sort of 'rocket turbine' motor, the turbine being linked to a gear train similar to a differential, thus enabling it to drive the wheels. Company was called Turbonique Inc. The only application in this country I ever heard of was by a chap called Allen Burgess (then editor of 'Karting' magazine)who put together a mini dragster using two direct thrust motors on what was basically a standard Class 1 kart chassis. From reports I've read, it only ran briefly, the first time at the Blackbushe Dragsfest in about '63. It may well still exist gathering dust in someones garage. Regretfully the timing gear used in those days wasn't set up for such a low slung vehicle, thus no 1/4 mile elapsed times or speeds were recorded. I know from experience that timing gear in the '80s would have registered the vehicle! (13.975 seconds in a 250cc kart)

airborne_artist

8th Aug 2006, 06:44

From the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2006/08/04/weekpix/060729_canberra.jpg

The smoke is from the Red Arrows.

Rocket2

8th Aug 2006, 11:54

The idea of it being put in an internal combustion engine frightens me enormously
Witnessed a fellow liney running his moped on Avpin to "get him home", thankfully it hit the cylinder walls as he turned onto the main drag at Chivenor (before it closed in 1975). He went from 0 - a hell of a lot in a micro second but hung on somehow, the gate guard obligingly lifted the barrier as he shot underneath then there was an almighty bang as the cylider head forced it's way with the petrol tank through his arms - brown stain all the way down the road & a very teed off SWO!:O

John Farley

8th Aug 2006, 12:22

Rocket2

What a wonderful picture you have conjured up!

airborne_artist

8th Aug 2006, 12:27

Rocket2 - bill for new keyboard on its way to you - spewed tea all over it as I read your post.

Would make a good cartoon :ok:

My Dad's Little Boy

8th Aug 2006, 12:42

I saw XH131 and XH135 parked outside a hangar at Kemble when I paid a visit on Sunday. Unfortunately, I couldn't get photos of them.

100berramate

8th Aug 2006, 14:59

Trumpet_trousers

8th Aug 2006, 19:10

If it was 22 Jul then the ac was ex-WK163 being flown by myself. The purpose of the visit to Duxford was to renew mine and one other pilot's DA on the ac so that we can continue displaying the last remaining airworthy Canberra on the display circuit for the foreseeable future!
yours, 100berramate
...Thank you, that solves my little mystery of driving down the M11 on that day and seeing something doing its stuff over DX. Thought initially from a distance it was a B25(!), but then the unmistakeable planform of a 'berra hove into view! Nice one - looked quite er.... energetic? :ok:

Conan the Librarian

9th Aug 2006, 11:25

Two shots here, of the old girl strutting her stuff during her last public display at Fairford.

Conan

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/zorbathegeek/800X600%20for%20Pprune/_JGN5121.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/zorbathegeek/800X600%20for%20Pprune/_JGN5124.jpg

A2QFI

9th Aug 2006, 12:21

Excellent photographs Conan - thank you! I couldn't raise the energy to drive from Grantham to Kemble for the 1000 start. Shame on me! Excellent detail of the puny 'finger' airbrakes too!

chevvron

9th Aug 2006, 20:09

ZH875

9th Aug 2006, 22:34

Start of an Error..

With apologies to 'J' GE's

Conan the Librarian

9th Aug 2006, 23:48

ZH, I wonder if you have seen the Vulcan thread(s)?

Conan

H Peacock

10th Aug 2006, 14:34

Still think it's sad they couldn't fit Farnborough into their 'last day' schedule, especially when Odiham, just 2 min away by Canberra, was included. I did ask Odiham ATC to ask the pilot, but 'sorry it's a very tight schedule' was the reply.

I can assure you that the crew had every intention of visiting Farnborough, and the pilot had spoken to the Farnborough ATC Superviser to coordinate it. However, before getting airborne the crew were told specifically to avoid the place.

A 'flypast' at an airshow needs too many people up high to approve it!!!
Soz. :ugh:

H Peacock

chevvron

10th Aug 2006, 14:58

Farnborough wasn't too busy that day and a single flypast could have been fitted in easily. It wasn't a display day after all. I wonder who it was who told the crew to avoid, 'cos it definitely was NOT ATC.

DEL Mode

16th Aug 2006, 16:40

Why the one remaining aircraft in the Swampland, pray tell?

H Peacock

16th Aug 2006, 18:45

Why the one remaining aircraft in the Swampland, pray tell?

If you a referring to XH169 it is going to be added to the RAF Marham gate guard (Museum!) with the Victor and GR1/4.

DEL Mode

16th Aug 2006, 18:59

When do three gate guardians constitue a museum?

H Peacock

16th Aug 2006, 19:28

Yeah, okay, I was getting a bit carried away. But 3 big aeroplanes do take up a lot of valuable space. That said it is an operational airfield, so maybe the more on show the better. :)

philrigger

17th Aug 2006, 07:31

;)
As I understand it, the only official Gate Guardian at present is the Tonka Toy. The Canberra will be a Secondary GG. The Victor is privately owned and deteriorating such as it will soon (If not already) become a Health and Safety issue. (In line with RAF policy there can only be one official GG on each station). The mighty Canberra is due to be positioned on the site OC Admin Wg thinks he will get for his new SHQ.

'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'

RON11

25th Aug 2006, 18:06

...ah, 'Ronnie Redsheets' himself! :E Long time no hear....

yup not heard that for a long time....oh how the past catches up with one eh???

Stretchwell

28th Aug 2006, 22:52

Anyone able to give me Ernie's contact details? I was on MASUAS with him as well as the same course at Salford Uni, joined the RAF on the same day but last saw him at Linton many years ago whilst he flew from Topcliffe. Thanks.

PS. That's where Ronnie got to !!:=

BEagle

29th Aug 2006, 06:09

I gather your flypast at the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome was rather good, Ronnie!

falcon12

7th Sep 2006, 14:52

This Sunday, the 10th, at the former RAF Kemble airfield, the PR9's XH131,134 and 135 will be available for inspection during the Delta Jets open day. Inspection of these aircarft is invited and I'm happy to report, apart from the parts the RAF removed, they are still serviceable and ready to fly - when certain parts are refitted again!!