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R4+Z
30th Jul 2006, 16:00
This should stir things up.....

I believe the Kiwis dislike it when people don't show respect for the Haka (sp?) and if memory serves me right some years ago a player got into trouble for standing up to the haka.

My question is where in the rules does it allow for one team to attempt to psych out the other before a game and why are they allowed to perform this ritual? As it is a ritual intended to intimidate why is it allowed and why is it wrong for the opposition to stand up to it? Lets face it if the Scottish team wanted to come out painted blue, in kilts accompanied by pipers I get the feeling it wouldn't be allowed. No disrespect to the Scottish intended but that was the easiest comparison that came to mind. Is it time an end was put to this practice? Or should each team be encouraged to develop thier own intimidatory performance just to even things up?

BlueDiamond
30th Jul 2006, 16:09
Mate, if the players are going to be "psyched out" by such a popular tradition as the performance of the Haka, then maybe they need to carry handbags onto the field to keep their prozac in. We are dealing with rugby players here aren't we? Poor darlings, we can't have the nasty men in black "psyching them out' ... they may never recover from the trauma. :rolleyes:

Romeo Delta
30th Jul 2006, 16:16
Each team is entitled to their own pregame ritual. Whatever happened to Australia's rousing rendition of "Waltzing Matilda"? I have seen matches between Samoa and Tonga where each team is doing their pregame chant at each other before anyone gets started.

Rugbyheaven.com actually told the story that, if the Kiwis had done the Kapa O Panga, the Maori members of the Wallabies were going to do the Ka Mate in response. This was endorsed by Jeremy Paul's uncle, a Maori leader.

Do the Aboriginies have a war chant or ritual dance that would strike fear in the hearts of their enemies? Might be worth looking into.

(Bluey, you ROCK! :ok: )

Edited coz I kant spel...

Whirlygig
30th Jul 2006, 16:52
And what would the English do? A Morris dance? :D

Cheers

Whirls

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
30th Jul 2006, 16:56
...only at the international level. At the county level it would be a Morris Minor dance

scruggs
30th Jul 2006, 17:13
To be honest, as an englishman who enjoys playing/watching rugby - I've always seen things like the Haka as a sign of weakness on the New Zealand side.

It's like they can't let the side let the sport alone do the talking. They have to get up and do some mumbo-jumbo boogie before each match to try and mentally affect the opposition. Why not leave it down to the physicality of the game?

Itís tradition, and I respect it as that. But as for something to warn the opposition - well, the word laughable springs to mind. I always laugh anyway, especially when they bob their tongues out :}

I read recently that an advert with them wearing hand-bags seriously the offended the New Zealanders. LOL!!!!!!! :} :) :p :E :ok:

Rick Storm
30th Jul 2006, 17:21
Whirlygig/Aaaaaagh

May your arm pits be infected with a 1000 fleas:yuk:

Romeo Delta
30th Jul 2006, 17:50
To be honest, as an englishman who enjoys playing/watching rugby - I've always seen things like the Haka as a sign of weakness on the New Zealand side.
It's like they can't let the side let the sport alone do the talking. They have to get up and do some mumbo-jumbo boogie before each match to try and mentally affect the opposition. Why not leave it down to the physicality of the game?
Itís tradition, and I respect it as that. But as for something to warn the opposition - well, the word laughable springs to mind. I always laugh anyway, especially when they bob their tongues out :}
I read recently that an advert with them wearing hand-bags seriously the offended the New Zealanders. LOL!!!!!!! :} :) :p :E :ok:

Say what you will about the ritual. I guess it IS laughable, especially when NZ is the #1 ranked side in the world. I'd say the ABs are doing their talking before AND during the match. It's only natural that everyone would be jealous of success. :p :E :ok:

Struggle on, England! ;)

Rick Storm
30th Jul 2006, 18:11
GW.Bush and Blair have their hands tied at the moment, but were keeping an eye on NZ do you have any nukes or are you considering building reactors, (why do you send us Anchor butter) always looking for a barnie.

No!!!! half of your population may want to come 'home' sorry we have so many Eastern Europeans we just can't cope.

Rick

canterbury crusader
31st Jul 2006, 00:38
The haka is not a threat, it is a challenge. Nothing more. Quite appropriate considering the circumstances. The Scottish would be allowed to do the bag pipe thing if it was traditional and they had been doing it for while. There are three other countries that also perform a haka prematch. The time the wallabies turned there backs on the haka they copped one of the biggest floggings they have ever received. A last minute tackle bag session seemed to be more effective but still not quite enough.

BlueDiamond
31st Jul 2006, 01:26
Everyone enjoys seeing the Haka performed before a match. I find it very hard to believe that players of other teams and fans are being so precious about this. Threats? Psyched out? Weakness? Puhleeeeze! What a bunch of bloody princesses.

Chesty Morgan
31st Jul 2006, 01:42
We may as well have a go at the Tongans too!

I'm with Bluey on this one...but what's with all the tongue sticking out? Not threatening or scary at all:p

Howard Hughes
31st Jul 2006, 01:53
Probably a more important question is when are the Wallabies going to get fit? Many of them are overweight and unfit! Despite having a weight advantage in the scrum, we were pushed back by like a bunch of school boys.

I also think it is time Larkham went, he made so many mistakes it was not funny, he shows no leadership and is too tall and lanky to play fly half, yet not strong enough to be a lock, get rid of him! It's about time Matt Rogers was given a chance at fly half, leaving the number 12 slot open for Matt Giteau.

We need to play the ball quicker from the breakdowns too, sadly I don't thnk George Gregan or Sam Cordingley are the answer...

Only got 12 months left to get our shite together for the BIG ONE!!

PS: Note to George Smith, if you play any type of football with long hair, EXPECT TO GET IT PULLED!!

R4+Z
31st Jul 2006, 02:44
I actually have no problem with them doing thier dance but do take exception when they go on about people not respecting it. There was some discussion by commentators here on the weekend about that aspect of it. It is either a traditional dance or a tool one or the other. They are there to play rugby so if the opposition doesn't respect the dance get over it. If the opposition dont respect the tool then that should be thier right. As for it being a challenge, if they aren't there to take each other on why are they there, a challenge is superfluous. The players of other teams aren't being precious about this the all black are.

Hughesy
31st Jul 2006, 07:02
You Aussies arnt upset are ya? I mean another year without any silver wear!!
If your concerned about the wallabies being put of their game by the Haka, maybe they should take up something like knitting.
Theres always next year! :}
Go the All Blacks!!
Hughesy :E

R4+Z
31st Jul 2006, 08:38
Hughesy

As I said in the post immediately before yours. It is apparently the all blacks that are upset (to hear the commentators talk). Apparently we aren't showing them enough respect when they do the haka.

By the way the Aussies don't wear silver but they have got plenty of silverware.
:) :) :)

canterbury crusader
31st Jul 2006, 10:23
Why do Australians drink out of saucers?

Because New Zealand has all the cups.

Go on, have a nibble.

lasernigel
31st Jul 2006, 11:40
As an enthusiatic rugby supporter and ex loose head prop,think there's nowt wrong with the Haka,it's a tradition that over the years has sybolised the Kiwi team.
What does bug me however is when Wales play at home they seem to have the whole choir system out in force then bugger me they get two songs to everyone elses one.Wouldn't mind if they could sing proper.:*

Foss
31st Jul 2006, 12:20
I like the haka, makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Although it does appear it's the All Blacks getting the handbags out if any team responds. For instance the England team pacing towards them.

If the AB's came here, to Northern Ireland, we could do our traditional dance, and throw bricks at them. ;)

Fos

phnuff
31st Jul 2006, 13:40
And what would the English do? A Morris dance?

i reckon blokes wearing bells and shaking ankies is a pretty worrying challenge :}

scruggs
31st Jul 2006, 13:47
And what would the English do? A Morris dance?
i reckon blokes wearing bells and shaking ankies is a pretty worrying challenge :}

Yes, but our players don't Morris dance on the Rugby pitch. What they do in their private life is private!

Whirlygig
31st Jul 2006, 14:33
Aye but what about them Morris Dancers with the big sticks and, even better, the bendy swords!

Cheers

Whirls

G-CPTN
31st Jul 2006, 15:23
Do you think footie developed from Morris Dancing? After all, there's a Fool with a pig's bladder? Probably the Ref.

Wingswinger
31st Jul 2006, 17:41
What a load of rubbish! The haka psyching the oppos? It's more likely to enrage any red-blooded opponent and lead to much greater efforts to smear the ABs into the mud. The trouble is, no team is good enough to do so at the moment.

Haka on boys, it's part of the folk-lore of the game. Incidently, it's fun looking back at AB teams of yesteryear strutting their stuff such as Brian Lochore's 1967 touring team in the UK. There were far fewer Maoris and no Pacific islanders then and the largely white team really looked like a bunch of hand-bag carrying limp-wrists! They still won, though.

potkettleblack
31st Jul 2006, 19:14
Every year its the same old story. Usually it starts with the Australians moaning about this or that a few weeks before the big match to try and take the AB's eye off the ball. Be it illegal rucking, the haka, not keeping space in the lineouts, slowing down play or standing offside. The theme changes each year but its the same old story.

Interestingly enough, this approach to sledging is starting to shift to the Northern hemisphere. Woodward was quite adept at it and the Irish are jumping on the band wagon as well.

R4+Z
1st Aug 2006, 06:47
Isn't it amazing I asked about this because it was said that the Kiwis were getting upset about the lack of respect and this is twisted to become the aussies moaning to try and take the all blacks eye off the ball. Which is strange when you take into account the fact that I'm British. I just happen to reside in Australia.

potkettleblack
1st Aug 2006, 08:21
Twisted? Having played rugby for many years I can tell you that a wee haka wouldn't put me off and neither would it put off the Aussies, Irish, English or any other half decent rugby playing nation. The game calls for a huge level of mental toughness and if you don't have that in the first place then you would not be playing at the top level in anycase. Its all spin which the media love to feed on as do some of the public. Its not about the haka at all but trying to see if you can distract your opponents in the run up to a test match.

Gordon Fraser
1st Aug 2006, 11:48
Do you think footie developed from Morris Dancing? After all, there's a Fool with a pig's bladder? Probably the Ref.
Fool took a team of visually impaired footie players to a country fair. Bells were placed in the pig's bladder in order that players could track ball. Fool retired to beer tent for libation, to be interrupted by person rushing into tent, shouting loudly for the person in charge of the blind team. "It's me mate, replied the fool, "what's up"? "Come quickly", he was told, "they're kicking s**t out of the morris dancers"

Foss
1st Aug 2006, 15:01
Aye, when I were captain of my team we had many starting rituals.
Smoking, borrowing vaseline, tape, studs, socks, tops, wintergreen from each other. Asking who the other team was (christ you're at their bloody ground), are they any good, who's the ref, who's going back to the club, who's driving.
What's the line out code again. Where am I playing, where's he playing. I don't want to be wing, it's cold.

Give me the haka any day.

Fos

potkettleblack
1st Aug 2006, 15:16
I never could quite understand how one of our backs would regularly turn up without his boots. I guess every team must have one after all!

Romeo Delta
1st Aug 2006, 20:13
When I was in NZ, a lot of the Polynesian kids would turn up without boots. Then PLAY without them. Those kids were as fast without boots as they were with them. :rolleyes: Amazing stuff.

But we had to require them to use boots. := Safety issue, after all.

Foss
2nd Aug 2006, 14:50
The previous captain of my crew had a traditional start to every game.
He did a roly poly on the pitch as everyone ran out.
It was very inspirational.

Fos

Solid Rust Twotter
2nd Aug 2006, 16:28
Rugby is played barefoot over here until entering high school. Still got the crooked toes...:}

Chinook
3rd Aug 2006, 08:17
The haka is a traditional way two tribes greet each other whena vist to another tribes marae (home turf) occurs. The two groups approach each other behind their women (a tradition I think the ABs would go for too if it didn't take so long) so that warfare was difficult - can't fight through your own breeding stock!

After the tribal groups had done some singing and everyone had settled down (ie we are NOT going to fight) then there would be a Haka - just to show how tough your team was (since we're not going to have a fight I'm going to show you how I COULD have kicked your a$$ if I felt like it).

In order for this to work, the other team has to watch the haka and get a feel for the other team. They can walk towards, ignore them, whistle, do whatever they like. The danger is: if we are doing a haka to show how tough we are and to demonstrate that we are not going to start killing people, AND you piss us off, it is quite likely to become 'game on' again.

So when the other team do anythig but watch quietly during the AB haka - I look forward to a damn good game of rugby.

DirtyPierre
3rd Aug 2006, 13:16
Rugby is a "traditional" team sport.

There are many emotive traditions in the game. The Haka is but one of them.

If you were in Brisbane in 2003 to see Tonga play NZ in the world cup pool game, you would have witnessed the traditional challenge of both teams performed at the same time. Goose bump material.

Other goose bump material is being at Murrayfield while the crowd belt out "Flower of Scotland" to bring home the Scottish lads. I've only done this at Suncorp Stadium in 2003. Or to be at Stade de Francais to here the French sing "Le Marseillaise", or to march around Hong Kong Stadium with the teams on the Sunday of the HK Sevens (as I've done).

The Haka is a great tradition. I love it, even if I'm just a mere aussie.

lasernigel
3rd Aug 2006, 13:30
Got a spare ticket for the KIWI game anyone fancy meeting up at Twickenham?