Tel Aviv

[Nick 1]

Would be nice to know what is airlines attitude regarding flights to Israel.
Are you guys going there? Some secury issues ? Normal operations ?
Thanks......

[euroflyer]

At the moment everything is operating as normal. I was there this week and security at the airport was not stricter than usual... All flights, passenger and cargo(in my case) are operating as normal although air france crews are nightstopping in paphos instead of tel aviv, don't know about the other carriers who stop there but I heard some airlines avoid stopping and fly up and down when they can.
The only difference I noted was our departure routing which was non-standard. Our usual Deena SID was replaced by following radials, step-climbs and then vectors. All other airlines that day were doing the same.
Of course, there is a lot of military activity along the coastline day and night, a lot more than usual. Not suprising when Haifa is only about 40miles north of TLV.

[Kace]

LH doesn´t nightstop in TLV anymore. So all crews fly back to Germany in the same shift. They´re compensated for these long duty times with extra rest at home before and after the flights.

[RoyHudd]

Many of us have been doing returns from UK to Sharm, Luxor, and the like. Longer than FRA-TLV, I reckon. So no big deal then. (I imagine the TUI people have been doing the same out of German bases too)

[TVIR40]

Implementing the level two variation used to allow some crews to do it as a single day sector there and back. I’m not sure with the heightened risk in the area, if this is being bought back in. I fly for an airline that does not use it as a normal route.

But that is how some airlines operated flights and got around crewing issues in the past.

[M.Mouse]

I slipped there a few days ago and it would be fair to say that that you could be forgiven for not knowing that such an obscenity was taking place such a short distance away.

Security at Ben Gurion was, as always, an example of how to properly carry out aviation security screening.

[Kalium Chloride]

Security at Ben Gurion was, as always, an example of how to properly carry out aviation security screening.


But how much of that screening is made possible by Ben Gurion's having fewer than 9m passengers a year? What effect would that same level of screening have on passenger throughput at Atlanta (85m), Chicago (75m) or Heathrow (68m). :uhoh:

[M.Mouse]

Sorry, I didn't realise that if you had a high level of passenger numbers then proper security was less important.

[Kalium Chloride]

Sorry, I didn't realise that if you had a high level of passenger numbers then proper security was less important.

What I said had nothing to do with the importance of passenger security - and I think you know it didn't.

Safety and security are, at best, idealistic concepts. In the real world, they have to be balanced against the ability of the transport system to function reasonably. Passengers held up in a queue they deem unnecessary will suddenly develop a much higher tolerance to risks.

Some bright spark recently suggested airport-style security on the London Underground rail network. With 3 million passengers per day? You'd have a revolt before you even began.

It's not that passenger security isn't important. But if it costs too much in terms of convenience, you can bet your passengers will throw the dice and take their chances elsewhere.

[Brian_Dunnigan]

Unnecessary response to what is a good comment for a volatile region...I wonder how those passengers at the airports you mention would react if they were in a region as volatile as that surrounding Tel Aviv...I agree with Mouse.

As far as what LU customers think...who cares? Let's see how long the revolt you talk of would last when they start getting into work late after being denied access to the LU network for not complying with the security procedures...Londoners always grumble anyway so what else is new...I'm one, so I should know although I do live elsewhere now

[Kalium Chloride]

Let's see how long the revolt you talk of would last when they start getting into work late after being denied access to the LU network for not complying with the security procedures.


LU handles more passengers in three days than Ben Gurion handles in a year. There isn't a chance in hell that airport-level security could reasonably be applied to that level of traffic, without it coming to a grinding halt.

Passengers would be able to walk on their hands to work, and still arrive long before anyone travelling by this 'high-security' metro. Be serious.

It's the same story at Heathrow. Finding a way to scan passengers thoroughly AND maintain the throughput is the Holy Grail of security companies - if only they realised it was as simple as you make out, eh?

[Brian_Dunnigan]

Who says it's not possible?

It's thinking like that that gets us nowhere and would have had the A380 being merely a dream...someone out there will get it and when they do I'm going to tell you about it....so keep your negativity to yourself...I believe we can fix problems and I never said it would be easy, so stop listening to your inner gremlins...helps if you keep off the tablets:E

The negativity and lack of imagination on pprune sometimes amazes me...there are people who dedicate their lives to such an "impossibility" and I think that saying that it's impossible is weak, really...how disappointing to see that on an aviation-related forum...that something can't be done!

[Kalium Chloride]

So - today Heathrow puts in place the kind of security you can expect at Ben Gurion. And just look at the result. I rest my case. :rolleyes: