Jetstar service?

[allthecoolnamesarego]

Seen this?
------------------------------------------
A funny thing happened on the way to the airport today, I was reminded of that old fashioned concept – service.

You see our long awaited holiday departure date had finally arrived, but unfortunately mother nature stepped in – disguised as fog, and put paid to our departure time. Not much anyone can do about that, so we wait until it clears.

Three hours later we board the aircraft and are on our way. In order to keep the good name of the airline untarnished, and as a gesture of good will to the paying customers, the Captain came over the intercom and told us that today, the drinks were on the airline.

Oh I shall never forget that feeling of goodwill, as it promised to shape the way I would think of air travel from that time on. A compassionate captain providing a wonderful gesture to those tired and frustrated passengers who just wanted to get their holiday underway.

There is an old saying – there is nothing like good service, and unfortunately Jet Star provides nothing like good service. You see the story I have just related occurred in 1979 whilst flying Qantas. Ever since then (despite the shift from customer focus to shareholder focus) I have been a loyal Qantas passenger. Qantas can thank that particular Captain for my many Qantas miles and therefore many Qantas dollars!

Jet Star on the other hand has provided me with a travel memory that I will never forget, and remind me each time I travel to fly any other airline but theirs. Allow me to hit the high points.

You see I actually never wanted to fly JetStar in the first place. I didn’t ever want to fly JetStar because I don’t like their philosophy, the lack of seating arrangements, the lack off express check in, and the ‘user pays for everything’ approach.

So with those many Qantas miles I had accumulated over the years, came many Qantas Frequent flier points, which I chose to redeem (on flights suitably picked by the airline to be as inconvenient as possible for the traveller) for a couple of tickets from Melbourne to Cairns.

As a loyal Qantas passenger (remember never wanting to fly Jetstar – Oh, I have a confession to make. During those times that Qantas flights weren’t available or didn’t suit, I fly Virgin, because you might remember that I never wanted to fly Jetstar), I logged into the Qantas web site, put in my Qantas frequent flyer number and finally managed to book two seats (plus an 18 month old toddler). I diligently printed off my itinerary (complete with Qantas logo) confirmed the flights (QF flight numbers) and waited for the day to leave. Yippee, a holiday at last!

Now at this place in the story, I should point out that I have excellent eyesight, but managed to overlook the small print of that dreaded word ‘Jetstar’, which in fairness to the company, did appear in small font below my Qantas flight number on my Qantas letterhead that I had printed off from the Qantas web site. I only noticed this however, when I arrived at the Qantas club check-in (you know the ones, usually have small queues and they give you those silly little ‘express luggage’ tags – oh and when I say ‘give’ I mean ‘trade’ for that $700 annual membership), quoted my QF (that’s airline talk for Qantas Flight) flight number and was told that the flight was with Jetstar. Disappointment turned to despair when I looked over at the Jetstar counter to see a line as long as I’ve ever seen.

Check-in didn’t proceed as well as one would have hoped. Despite the departure screen informing the travelling throngs that QF5896 (sorry that should be JQ7896) was scheduled to leave at 0945, the fog in Melbourne was saying otherwise. After about 30 minutes in the queue, I arrived at the counter, presented myself, my pregnant wife and 18 month old son, only to be told that the flight was delayed until 1525, oh and by the way “I’ve added your baby onto your ticket, because he wasn’t on the initial booking”. But wait, I know he was. “Sometimes this information doesn’t come through”. Fair enough, not all that info you type in needs to get to them, they send it to a central area where a real person disregards a lot of the ‘useless’ info.

Upon enquiring why I hadn’t been called about the delay – I was told that Flight Centre should have called me (strange, I booked via the internet) “Well it is Qantas’ responsibility to call.”

It seemed a little strange that the fog was delaying our departure until 1325, when the Sunshine coast service (and I use the term ‘service’ loosely) was only going to be delayed until the fog cleared.

I was intrigued to hear one passenger later tell the other disgruntled passengers, that in fact she had been told when she arrived, that the flight was rescheduled from the original 0945 departure time to the 1325 departure time the previous day, because of scheduled aircraft maintenance; but I digress, more on disgruntled passengers later…

Back to the check-in counter. With nothing else to do, I passed over our bags and tried to figure out how to kill four hours with a toddler and pregnant wife in a busy airport.

Thankfully the Jetstar check in man had given us some vouchers for food, which would tide us over. It wasn’t until I went to redeem them that I realised that toddlers need to eat as well (how forgetful of me, first I forget to put him on the booking and now this – I hope no one from DOCS reads this!), fortunately the two $8 vouchers were enough to buy two stale sandwiches and leave us $4 dollars to buy one drink (they cost a bit more than that by the way).

Luckily for us, we managed to contact a friend who was kind enough to pick us up and allow us to spend some time at his house (babies needing sleep and all that).

So around 1 pm I called the Jetstar number (oh, if you ever need to find it, don’t look on the ticket because it’s not there) only to be greeted by a service representative who takes no lip, but does accept key tones. Another point to note here is that if you use one of the functions of the ‘service’ (loosely used again) and then want to go back to another – oh I don’t know why – maybe to speak to someone, you can’t. The little voice says thankyou and hangs up). Another tip for the uninitiated, don’t use the Telstra call connect service for this, because when Jetstar hangs up on you, you can’t look at the ticket to get the number (come on keep up - remember it’s not there) So always write the number down and then you can call back without having to go through Telstra again.

The little voice told me that the flight was departing at 5.25pm. I was sure that couldn’t be correct, maybe the voice is wrong; perhaps I had better ask a real person. Now which key do I press to get a real person (Slow learner –see note above). Call back and speak to real person. The flight is leaving at 3.25. Excellent. “Oh and buy the way, why didn’t anyone call me to tell me the flight was delayed?”
“I’m very sorry Qantas should have done that”
“Will they call me if there are any more delays?”
“Probably not, perhaps you should call before you leave for the airport”

Here is a time saving tip for travellers – save a few seconds when you book your flight by not bothering to put in your CONTACT details, they don’t really need them anyway, contact to an airline probably still refers to the art of swinging a prop.

OK, where were we? Oh yes that right – check before you leave. So 10 mins after my initial few calls (remember you need to make a few) I called back and spoke to a real person. It seems the flight is delayed until 5.25pm. I checked my mobile – yes it was still on, and no silly, it wasn’t on silent- seems like I must have been overlooked again.

When we finally arrive at the airport we make our way to the gate only to see the aircraft leave, oh don’t fret, that one isn’t ours; ours is delayed until 6.15pm (phone is still on). Another tip here, always have a friend who lives in the same town/city as the airport and who can pick you up – could you imagine having to wait in the airport ALL day (well not technically ‘all day’ only 10 hours) because of delays. It would probably make you pretty angry and if you had kids, make them unruly. Lucky you have that $7 stale sandwich and that one-dollar drink (note comment above about drinks costing more than $1).

O.K, we finally board. Horay! Take off is uneventful and we settle into the cruise. The captain turns off the seat belt sign, which allows the cabin staff to leave their seats and congregate around the toilets talking about how they were called in from standby because of the previous crew running out of hours.

Now dear reader, if you can remember the very start of this tirade, you might recall that captain, who saved the airlines good name and offered his passengers a free drink – after all they had waited around for three hours and were pretty annoyed (an other point here – anyone who knows anything about flying understands that fog is fog and it is not the airlines fault that they are delayed – but some people don’t and will blame the airline – thus the brilliance of the Qantas captain; give ‘em a drink, they’ll be happy and they’ll fly with us again).

In this case however it was more than three hours (about ten but who’s counting) and it wasn’t only fog but maintenance (I know aircraft fall out of the sky if they aren’t looked after), but one might expect some action to go along with the shallow “we’re sorry for the delay”

After the staff had rested from the arduous takeoff, they walked through the aisle and offered us a drink (at the going rate of $6 for a beer). Some people who had thought they would be on the flight much earlier and foolishly hadn’t eaten dinner ($7 dollar sandwiches taste pretty good after hanging out in an airport all day) thought they would buy some overpriced under whelming food to keep them going on the flight.
Now I interrupt this tirade to make a point to airline staff, if you are going to offer food, it is a good idea that you ACTUALLY have the food to offer. You see food is like baggage when it comes to flying – we generally like our bags and food to be on the same flight that we are. You can have that tip for nothing.

Now I know that Jetstar is only a new airline, but even babies know how to moderate their core temperature. Another tip here staff members, if you see kids taking off their clothes, and you hear people saying how hot it is – you might actually want to do something about it. I wouldn’t wait until one of those annoyed customers has something else to complain about by having to ask you to turn the cabin temp down. You don’t even need to bother the captain; you have a little button on the touch screen on the front bulkhead that can do it for you.

Now here is a final tip on customer service. I know people often complain and want to feel like their special (especially those annoying customers that are in some crazy way that I don’t fully understand (I’m not college educated) paying your wages), but when you see the beginning of a mutiny on your hands, you might like to actually DO something about it (remember an empty ‘sorry’ only goes so far). I know the signs are sometimes subtle – maybe taking the form of a lady starting a partition and having virtually EVERY passenger sign it during the flight) but with practice you will recognise these signs.

From the mutterings I listened to in my many walks up and down the aisle following a sleep deprived child, I heard a number of people say things along the lines of ‘and they won’t even give us a free drink, well I will never fly Jetstar again’. I know that many of them will buckle and fly Jetstar again, but many won’t, and most will tell their friends about this money hungry airline, which will eventually cost more than 150 free drinks.

I wish now that in 1979 I had taken note of the Captains name, because I’m sure he would like to know how his simple gesture (costing the company very little) has earned them untold amounts of not only good will but custom, and I’d like to point him in the direction of Jetstar management, so he could give them a little lesson on the forgotten art of customer Service.

Have I complained to Jetstar – no, what’s the point? They can’t give me the lost day of my holiday, and even if they did offer me a free flight (highly unlikely) I wouldn’t take it, as I have said, I never want to fly Jetstar again. Instead, I’ll do the next best thing. I hope lots of people read this diatribe and think twice about using Jetstar, until the company realises that even with cheap seats, people want to be treated like people and not cattle. Service doesn’t really cost that much.

P.S. I hope someone form Jetstar has read this entire letter, and it has taken a number of minutes out of their day, minutes they could have been spending on a holiday. If they have, and they feel annoyed at the waste of time – I’m sorry (but I promise to by you a free drink).

Cheers!

[CAPTBOB]

Isnt progress just great?
I havent had your experience with Jetstar but had a similar challenge with Virgin. I was booked on a SYD MEL 0800 flight. They cancelled it after I checked in and offered me a flight the next day. Very amateur operation. Reckon their a cross between the Wiggles and Baywatch.
What a terrible loss the end of the 2 airline policy and eventual demise of Ansett was.
If it helps console you at all, speaking from experience (which gets refreshed every day), the days of pleasant, reliable, timely air travel have gone. These past pleasurable experiences will only be possible with a bit of luck (aircraft on time) and a friendly cabin crew (that is of course if they arent too busy worrying about breaking a nail)

[B A Lert]

Jetstar service = oxymoron.:=

Oxymoron = self-contradiction :ok:

[BelfastChild]

Seen this?
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You see I actually never wanted to fly JetStar in the first place. I didn’t ever want to fly JetStar because............and the ‘user pays for everything’ approach.

Cheers!

Sorry, your post was too long for my attention span and didn't get further than this paragraph. Are you suggesting that if you fly QANTAS or any other "full service" carrier that the user doesn't pay for everything?:confused: :confused:

[Roger Copy Ta]

Excellent! Someboby get that thing published, that's awesome. :D

[OCCR]

Very well written.
But I dont see a problem, The public demanded a cheap low cost airline and they got it.
The laws of supply and demand, I mean what do you expect for $88?
Have you ever hear of the line .......Pay peanuts get...................

[Trash Hauler]

Best read I have had in a while. Quit your day job and start writing!

TH

PS: Sell a couple of books and you won't ever have to fly jetstar again :)

[fistfokker]

Perhaps we should be asking ourselves why modern aircraft can't land in fog in even the nations largest airports.

Even though it was a mind numbing tirade I persevered through the lot to see if there was any balance but sadly there was not.

One reason for prioritising which services get picked up first following massive disruption is the curfews at various airports. This means in order to move everybody, somebodys must by necessity be moved by a certain time and some other bodys can still be moved later into the night.

As the travellers in the story appear to have been actually travelling on a QF Flight number (QF5896 as I recall) they were officially Qantas passengers. It is a code shared flight therefore I would suggest that the Jet* staff advising that Qantas should have informed its passenger of the delays expected and experienced was quite correct. It therefore seems to me that the entire complaint about service in this instance should be correctly directed at Qantas not Jet*

Now if a person books a flight and then by their own admission doesn't bother to read the relevant information about the flight they have booked, then blames a different party for everthing that doesn't go according to plan, should that person take up our time with such a long winded and boring tirade?

[Pretzal]

This was well worth the read - if nothing for the humour alone!

"contact to an airline probably still refers to the art of swinging a prop"

What made me laugh even more was the fact that the story was almost identical to the experiences of my friend only recently - in fact if it wasnt for the 18 month old I might have thought it was him! There seems to be a disproportionate number of these stories for the amount of jetstar flights...

[OCCR]

the public think it wants this type of travel and then they whinge....
in the meantime here is an interesting thread

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=236254&highlight=qantas

[RENURPP]

SPOT ON, could not agree more, it is exactly what I see.

The public did want and are welcome to a low cost operation, but they want CHOICE.
You purchase a ticket for a QF flight you expect a QF aircraft/crew, simple really.

Out of Darwin to Melbourne (at the moment, probably get worse) we have the choice of Virgin or jetstar, the train looks pretty good really

[OCCR]

I agree...............pay peanuts and you get.............. except for Jet* management......very well paid with good perks.
Anyway why should Jet* staff care about any of this?
They aren't paid enough to put up with this crap....by the way NO.... a smile is not free........nothing is free in this world.........
When I go to Woollies I don't expect the poor checkout chick to give me a fake smile, the poor things are so overworked and underpaid that I DON'T expect them to be superficially nice to me, but I don't expect to be rude either.......if people are not happy they wont smile!

[Machinegun Fellatio]

2 things you need in a customer service environment:
1. "happy" motivated staff.
2.Provide them with the resources to do their job well.
If "they are not happy they wont smile"
That about sums up the employees in the QANTAS Group:{
Not happy Geoff!!!

[vee1-rotate]

i honestly thought the whole Jetstar canning was a bit overboard, but from recent reports from well-travelled family members, one can only shake their head and wonder what has happened to the industry...all for the sake of a cheap fare...:{

[Shitsu_Tonka]

With such a small population any airline in Australia is going to rely on a return customer base to remain viable.

This 'loyalty' is what the writer initially referred to.

One wonders how many of the 'one-off' travellers never to return have been burnt already, and how many are left?

Watching the last flights of the day each shift it is easy to see that the scheduled turnaround times are not viable - no doubt this is some type of fudging for duty times, but the fact is that you would not want to rely on getting somewhere on time - perhaps the argument is that this is not the target market? However QF have left many business customers with no option now, by replacing many business flights with a JQ 'service' (BN-DN springs to mind). Perhaps I am wrong - they have left the business customer with another option - fly VB.

Anecdotally, many of the new A320 skippers seem to just be building enough command hours on type so they can bail out overseas and get paid properly -
where will this leave Joyce/Dixon and the JQ operation in the medium term, assuming it is accuarate?

Strange - these guys seem to actually be making QF sevice look good. Who'd have thunk it?!

[golow]

Another pax who buys a cheap fare and wants to be treated like a king. Jetstar gets them all the time.
Drive next time and save us all from you

[Di_Vosh]

Golow,

I think he explained that he thought that he was buying a QF flight.

I'm wondering why he just didn't go up to the Q Club? Free food and drink, and a lot more quiet.

[Dj Dave]

I'm wondering why he just didn't go up to the Q Club? Free food and drink, and a lot more quiet.

In Sydney Qantas and Jetstar are in a different terminal. Perhaps there is a lounge for Qantas link ?

[Di_Vosh]

But his flight (the diatribe flight) was from Melbourne

[wirgin blew]

Its all in the terms and conditions. The small box you tick without actually reading them. Somewhere in those terms and conditions QF, JQ and DJ included gives them the power to pretty much do whatever they want without having to give you anything. Those T&C cover pretty much every eventuallity and I am sure if people actually read the rules they may even think twice about flying altogether.
However in the airlines defence it is a bloody long car, bus or train trip to Cairns so to be able to do it in one day is surely worth a bit of waiting around the airport. Perhaps next time you'll just drive down to the Victorian Riviera for a warm winter holiday.

:ok:

[Vee Won Kutt]

Fellow PPruners. For the sake of clarity I have reprinted the entire diatribe, and added my own comments and remarks in bold where appropriate. Whilst there is a lot not to like about Jetstar, I feel that much of this utter crap needed to be addressed. For the record I work for the Qantas group as a pilot with Eastern (Qantas Link).

A funny thing happened on the way to the airport today, I was reminded of that old fashioned concept – service.
You see our long awaited holiday departure date had finally arrived, but unfortunately mother nature stepped in – disguised as fog, and put paid to our departure time. Not much anyone can do about that, so we wait until it clears.
Three hours later we board the aircraft and are on our way. In order to keep the good name of the airline untarnished, and as a gesture of good will to the paying customers, the Captain came over the intercom and told us that today, the drinks were on the airline.
Oh I shall never forget that feeling of goodwill, as it promised to shape the way I would think of air travel from that time on. A compassionate captain providing a wonderful gesture to those tired and frustrated passengers who just wanted to get their holiday underway.

He could only be passionate if his management backed him. Try making a call like that these days! I bet he had to have permission first.

There is an old saying – there is nothing like good service, and unfortunately Jet Star provides nothing like good service. You see the story I have just related occurred in 1979 whilst flying Qantas. Ever since then (despite the shift from customer focus to shareholder focus) I have been a loyal Qantas passenger. Qantas can thank that particular Captain for my many Qantas miles and therefore many Qantas dollars!

And how much did airline travel with Qantas cost in 1979? What proportion of the Aussie population could afford airline travel in 1979? You paid top dollar for that service! I have been fortunate enough to have traveled the globe many times, and have flown with many different airlines – To this day I remain disappointed with Qantas’ service. (Although I have had some good flights too).

Jet Star on the other hand has provided me with a travel memory that I will never forget, and remind me each time I travel to fly any other airline but theirs. Allow me to hit the high points.

Remember that Jetstar is the Devil Spawn of your beloved Qantas. I will respond to some of your points.

You see I actually never wanted to fly JetStar in the first place. I didn’t ever want to fly JetStar because I don’t like their philosophy, the lack of seating arrangements, the lack off express check in, and the ‘user pays for everything’ approach.

Fair enough mate – It’s not for you, or for many others, but LCCs have enabled many others to travel cheaply.
1. The seating arrangement issue is being addressed
2. Qantas’ check in is any thing but great these days
3. The ‘user pays for everything’ with Qantas anyway.


So with those many Qantas miles I had accumulated over the years, came many Qantas Frequent flier points, which I chose to redeem (on flights suitably picked by the airline to be as inconvenient as possible for the traveller) for a couple of tickets from Melbourne to Cairns.
As a loyal Qantas passenger (remember never wanting to fly Jetstar – Oh, I have a confession to make. During those times that Qantas flights weren’t available or didn’t suit, I fly Virgin, because you might remember that I never wanted to fly Jetstar), I logged into the Qantas web site, put in my Qantas frequent flyer number and finally managed to book two seats (plus an 18 month old toddler). I diligently printed off my itinerary (complete with Qantas logo) confirmed the flights (QF flight numbers) and waited for the day to leave. Yippee, a holiday at last!

Other than allocated seating – give me Jetstar any day. (speaking from my own experiences only)

Now at this place in the story, I should point out that I have excellent eyesight, but managed to overlook the small print of that dreaded word ‘Jetstar’, which in fairness to the company, did appear in small font below my Qantas flight number on my Qantas letterhead that I had printed off from the Qantas web site. I only noticed this however, when I arrived at the Qantas club check-in (you know the ones, usually have small queues and they give you those silly little ‘express luggage’ tags – oh and when I say ‘give’ I mean ‘trade’ for that $700 annual membership), quoted my QF (that’s airline talk for Qantas Flight) flight number and was told that the flight was with Jetstar. Disappointment turned to despair when I looked over at the Jetstar counter to see a line as long as I’ve ever seen.

My heart bleeds for you. Let’s get the violins out for this suited up battler! Oh the thought of a ruffled suit jacket – Those creases are oh so hard to get out.
1. Can’t really blame this one on Jetstar mate – It’s your beloved Qantas’ fault that they put you on a Jetstar flight.
2. Use you’re your excellent eyesight next time. Or ask Qantas to spell it out for you.

Check-in didn’t proceed as well as one would have hoped. Despite the departure screen informing the travelling throngs that QF5896 (sorry that should be JQ7896) was scheduled to leave at 0945, the fog in Melbourne was saying otherwise. After about 30 minutes in the queue, I arrived at the counter, presented myself, my pregnant wife and 18 month old son, only to be told that the flight was delayed until 1525, oh and by the way “I’ve added your baby onto your ticket, because he wasn’t on the initial booking”. But wait, I know he was. “Sometimes this information doesn’t come through”. Fair enough, not all that info you type in needs to get to them, they send it to a central area where a real person disregards a lot of the ‘useless’ info.

So what is really the problem here? It all got sorted out. I don’t know – but I would say 50/50 a Qantas stuff up in the reservation system. Jetstar sorted it our for you.

Upon enquiring why I hadn’t been called about the delay – I was told that Flight Centre should have called me (strange, I booked via the internet) “Well it is Qantas’ responsibility to call.”

Remember Jetstar are the Devil Spawn of Qantas.

It seemed a little strange that the fog was delaying our departure until 1325, when the Sunshine coast service (and I use the term ‘service’ loosely) was only going to be delayed until the fog cleared.

This point you make is fair enough. However in fairness to the check in staff it probably was initially a fog problem. Communication within any large organization can break down quickly. I have experienced this sort of thing many times, and with many airlines (including Qantas). It is unfortunate that it happened to you on this occasion, but hardly uniquely a Jetstar problem. Surely a well traveled person such as yourself has had similar experiences?

I was intrigued to hear one passenger later tell the other disgruntled passengers, that in fact she had been told when she arrived, that the flight was rescheduled from the original 0945 departure time to the 1325 departure time the previous day, because of scheduled aircraft maintenance; but I digress, more on disgruntled passengers later…

It’s unlikely that they would have scheduled maintenance during the timetable mate. Unscheduled maybe – Certainly it’s doubtful that there was any conspiracy going on.

Back to the check-in counter. With nothing else to do, I passed over our bags and tried to figure out how to kill four hours with a toddler and pregnant wife in a busy airport.

What’s that old saying about airline travel………? Hardly uniquely Jetstar

Thankfully the Jetstar check in man had given us some vouchers for food, which would tide us over. It wasn’t until I went to redeem them that I realised that toddlers need to eat as well (how forgetful of me, first I forget to put him on the booking and now this – I hope no one from DOCS reads this!), fortunately the two $8 vouchers were enough to buy two stale sandwiches and leave us $4 dollars to buy one drink (they cost a bit more than that by the way).

Crank up the violins guys, and get out the tissues! Blame the over priced stale sandwiches on Jetstar – That would be right – you have obviously allowed your jaded bigotry to bias your opinion. However in fairness to you $8 may be a little on the lean side – The Qantas vouches I have seen are in the order of $14, but hardly worth getting worked up about mate.

Luckily for us, we managed to contact a friend who was kind enough to pick us up and allow us to spend some time at his house (babies needing sleep and all that).

What Jetstar didn’t put you up in the Hilton for a few hours – how…how….how…Stingy!
“Qantas never have delays, but…..but…..but….. if they did I bet they would put us up in the Hilton!”

So around 1 pm I called the Jetstar number (oh, if you ever need to find it, don’t look on the ticket because it’s not there) only to be greeted by a service representative who takes no lip, but does accept key tones. Another point to note here is that if you use one of the functions of the ‘service’ (loosely used again) and then want to go back to another – oh I don’t know why – maybe to speak to someone, you can’t. The little voice says thankyou and hangs up). Another tip for the uninitiated, don’t use the Telstra call connect service for this, because when Jetstar hangs up on you, you can’t look at the ticket to get the number (come on keep up - remember it’s not there) So always write the number down and then you can call back without having to go through Telstra again.

Automated phone services are pathetic – no argument. However, once again this is hardly uniquely a Jetstar problem.

The little voice told me that the flight was departing at 5.25pm. I was sure that couldn’t be correct, maybe the voice is wrong; perhaps I had better ask a real person. Now which key do I press to get a real person (Slow learner –see note above). Call back and speak to real person. The flight is leaving at 3.25. Excellent. “Oh and buy the way, why didn’t anyone call me to tell me the flight was delayed?”
“I’m very sorry Qantas should have done that”
“Will they call me if there are any more delays?”
“Probably not, perhaps you should call before you leave for the airport”

As a loyal (But obviously slow learning) Qantas passenger I will save you some time also. Bare in mind that Jetstar are the Devil Spawn of Qantas.
1. Collectively Qantas treat there own like pond scum
2. Collectively Qantas treat there customers like the bottom dwellers that feed off pond scum
3. Collectively Qantas treat Jetstar (and the staff) like the excretion that scum sucking bottom dwellers pump out of their nether regions!
So if it was Qantas’ responsibility to call you, then it is no surprise to me that you were left in the dark. Good on that ‘real person’ to have the honesty to suggest you call in future.

Here is a time saving tip for travellers – save a few seconds when you book your flight by not bothering to put in your CONTACT details, they don’t really need them anyway, contact to an airline probably still refers to the art of swinging a prop.

Admittedly communication is obviously a problem that not only Jetstar, but the Qantas group should address. Yes the entire Qantas group – Qantas Link also!

OK, where were we? Oh yes that right – check before you leave. So 10 mins after my initial few calls (remember you need to make a few) I called back and spoke to a real person. It seems the flight is delayed until 5.25pm. I checked my mobile – yes it was still on, and no silly, it wasn’t on silent- seems like I must have been overlooked again.

Would you like some syrup with your waffle sir????

When we finally arrive at the airport we make our way to the gate only to see the aircraft leave, oh don’t fret, that one isn’t ours; ours is delayed until 6.15pm (phone is still on). Another tip here, always have a friend who lives in the same town/city as the airport and who can pick you up – could you imagine having to wait in the airport ALL day (well not technically ‘all day’ only 10 hours) because of delays. It would probably make you pretty angry and if you had kids, make them unruly. Lucky you have that $7 stale sandwich and that one-dollar drink (note comment above about drinks costing more than $1).

What was that saying about airline travel again?

O.K, we finally board. Horay! Take off is uneventful and we settle into the cruise. The captain turns off the seat belt sign, which allows the cabin staff to leave their seats and congregate around the toilets talking about how they were called in from standby because of the previous crew running out of hours.

I’m prepared to give the Flight Attendants the benefit of the doubt here as you are obviously at the point of blaming Jetstar about a jock itch! Sure they may have gathered near the toilets at some point – but did they spend the duration of the flight there? If so – inexcusable, if not however– then stop embellishing the argument.

Now dear reader, if you can remember the very start of this tirade, you might recall that captain, who saved the airlines good name and offered his passengers a free drink – after all they had waited around for three hours and were pretty annoyed (an other point here – anyone who knows anything about flying understands that fog is fog and it is not the airlines fault that they are delayed – but some people don’t and will blame the airline – thus the brilliance of the Qantas captain; give ‘em a drink, they’ll be happy and they’ll fly with us again).

1. Qantas’ good name is on the nose.
2. That brilliant Captain that you have exalted to some god-like status was probably either doing as he was told or following company protocol that may or may not exist now. Did he pay for the drinks himself? Would it still happen at Qantas today? – Maybe? I don’t know as I have never seen it – I am sure some fellow diehard PPruners (The majority of which hate/fear Jetstar infinitely more than you) may shed some light on this point. Sure it was a nice thing to do and probably would have been appropriate in this situation too.

In this case however it was more than three hours (about ten but who’s counting) and it wasn’t only fog but maintenance (I know aircraft fall out of the sky if they aren’t looked after), but one might expect some action to go along with the shallow “we’re sorry for the delay”

Ease up mate! You have had a go at the company, the cabin crew, and now you are insinuating that the crew are also shallow. That’s a pretty powerful accusation. What makes it ‘shallow’ mate? The fact that you wanted your drink, and other than someone’s blood, nothing else would have satisfied you?
I reckon I have to give a “sorry folks” call for every third flight at Eastern – and I never give it ‘shallow’ mate!!

After the staff had rested from the arduous takeoff, they walked through the aisle and offered us a drink (at the going rate of $6 for a beer). Some people who had thought they would be on the flight much earlier and foolishly hadn’t eaten dinner ($7 dollar sandwiches taste pretty good after hanging out in an airport all day) thought they would buy some overpriced under whelming food to keep them going on the flight.
Now I interrupt this tirade to make a point to airline staff, if you are going to offer food, it is a good idea that you ACTUALLY have the food to offer. You see food is like baggage when it comes to flying – we generally like our bags and food to be on the same flight that we are. You can have that tip for nothing.

1. So the cabin crew didn’t spend the entire time at the toilets????
2. Those drinks aren’t free on your beloved Qantas either. Somebody has to pay for them. At least at Jetstar you have the choice to not have to pay for them.
3. When is airline food anything but ‘underwhelming’?
4. Having the food onboard is a good tip mate. Same problem at Eastern (and I make the presumption that it would be the same at Qantas) – I understand that it’s a Qantas group policy that if catering is not there then the flight will not be delayed. It sucks I’m sure for the customers, but once again not uniquely a Jetstar problem. I can assure you the cabin crew cringed when they saw the catering was missing! They are human too!

Now I know that Jetstar is only a new airline, but even babies know how to moderate their core temperature. Another tip here staff members, if you see kids taking off their clothes, and you hear people saying how hot it is – you might actually want to do something about it. I wouldn’t wait until one of those annoyed customers has something else to complain about by having to ask you to turn the cabin temp down. You don’t even need to bother the captain; you have a little button on the touch screen on the front bulkhead that can do it for you.

Once again mate you’re having a go at the crew. I’m tipping you flew on an A320? If so the cabin crew can’t change the temperature, that’s the sole responsibility of the flight crew. It’s a pain when it gets to hot/cold – sure. There are other possibilities though, i.e. the aircraft had been in for maintenance so something may still be faulty, or a setting may be slightly out. Did they sort the temperature issue out? You may not have seen one of the cabin crew on the intercom asking the pilots to “take a couple of logs off the fire”.

Now here is a final tip on customer service. I know people often complain and want to feel like their special (especially those annoying customers that are in some crazy way that I don’t fully understand (I’m not college educated) paying your wages), but when you see the beginning of a mutiny on your hands, you might like to actually DO something about it (remember an empty ‘sorry’ only goes so far). I know the signs are sometimes subtle – maybe taking the form of a lady starting a partition and having virtually EVERY passenger sign it during the flight) but with practice you will recognise these signs.

Thank God I’m not back down the back. I have seen your type and I wouldn’t have the patience to tolerate you. You wouldn’t want a coffee from me mate because I would give you extra ‘froth’ on top! What do you want the cabin crew to do for you? You don’t accept a “sorry” from them. Often things and circumstance happen that are out of the control of the cabin crew mate. Do you want them to change into potato bags and throw ashes on their heads and then grovel at your feet while you sip on the captain’s generosity? You Toff! If there is more to your story then elaborate on the above comment (and don’t embellish it!).

From the mutterings I listened to in my many walks up and down the aisle following a sleep deprived child, I heard a number of people say things along the lines of ‘and they won’t even give us a free drink, well I will never fly Jetstar again’. I know that many of them will buckle and fly Jetstar again, but many won’t, and most will tell their friends about this money hungry airline, which will eventually cost more than 150 free drinks.

Is that damned drink the only thing that would have placated you?

I wish now that in 1979 I had taken note of the Captains name, because I’m sure he would like to know how his simple gesture (costing the company very little) has earned them untold amounts of not only good will but custom, and I’d like to point him in the direction of Jetstar management, so he could give them a little lesson on the forgotten art of customer Service.

Woomera – Is there an emoticon that is bowing down and worshipping a ‘generous’ captain???

Have I complained to Jetstar – no, what’s the point? They can’t give me the lost day of my holiday, and even if they did offer me a free flight (highly unlikely) I wouldn’t take it, as I have said, I never want to fly Jetstar again. Instead, I’ll do the next best thing. I hope lots of people read this diatribe and think twice about using Jetstar, until the company realises that even with cheap seats, people want to be treated like people and not cattle. Service doesn’t really cost that much.

1. I am tipping you spent the second day of you holiday, fuming over a keyboard, and typing this crap out.
2. Why not complain to Jetstar, rather than whine to us? (Although there are plenty of sympathetic readers here I guess.)

P.S. I hope someone form Jetstar has read this entire letter, and it has taken a number of minutes out of their day, minutes they could have been spending on a holiday. If they have, and they feel annoyed at the waste of time – I’m sorry (but I promise to by you a free drink).

P.S.
1. Pull you head in!
2. Happy ironing, you Toff!

Cheers!

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

"Another pax who buys a cheap fare and wants to be treated like a king"
No, what he wants is to be treated like the valuable commodity he is - a customer, not as it would seem, as an inconvenience who's sole purpose is to provide the means of paying the crew's wages.

[murgatroid]

Vee Won, or is it AJ or J* media.

A typical J* response - blame everyone else - the passenger, Qantas, anyone except yourselves.

Just remember, J* and QF need each other. Without QF, J* would probably not be around - look at J* Asia. Without J*, QF would likely find things tougher - although they could then probably spend time growing the premium market where all the money is!

Worse still is when AJ & GD themselves talk the QF operation down.

For everyone's sake, the two outfits should be able to help each other prosper. Unfortunately at this time J* is milking QF dry and slagging it left right and center.

If QF was gone, for just how long could J* survive? - I would say only a few months.

[B A Lert]

Its all in the terms and conditions. The small box you tick without actually reading them. Somewhere in those terms and conditions QF, JQ and DJ included gives them the power to pretty much do whatever they want without having to give you anything. Those T&C cover pretty much every eventuallity and I am sure if people actually read the rules they may even think twice about flying altogether.


It is true that the terms and conditions are biassed totally toward the airlines, or indeed any service provider - the world over. But there's also a concept of 'customer service' and 'good-will'. Price might win the first time around but once a customer realises that price, like size, isn't everything, he will go elsewhere if he thinks he is receiving better value. It is very subjective but it does appear to me that the culture at Jetstar must change so that their passaengers are treated as though they do have a choice: travel on another carrier or not at all. The most successful of all companies are those with an embedded culture of customer service, be it real or perceived. Only the long term outcomes will tell us if Jetstar's attitude is right or wrong. At the moment, I think the jury would suggest the latter.

[Vee Won Kutt]

murgatroid.

I stated that I worked for Eastern. Feel free to do a search on my other posts.
I also specifically stated in the 1st paragragh that there is a lot not to like about Jetstar! No disput what-so-ever. I think Jetstar has a long way to go in the 'service' department.

At first I genuinly was upset for this bloke, but the more I read his waffle the more he fired me up, and my responses indicate that. I will let Jetstar worry about his complaint if he bothers to puts one in. He wanted to make his point here, possibly looking for sympathy - However if he wants to shoot from the hip at the staff, then he will get no sympathy from me.

Some of his points seemed valid, but most of his opinions seemed tarnished by his jaded bias and would appear unfounded.

There's a lot not to like about the entire Qantas group!

PS. Just a thought here. Remember when Virgin introduced a fee for changing a booking? "WHAT - I have to pay a fee!!!", now most people say "How much will that cost to change my booking." In other words people's expectations have changed, and they will continue to change.
LCCs have forged a place in the Australian market and are here to stay.
However I'm not defending poor service!

[airbusthreetwenty]

In Sydney Qantas and Jetstar are in a different terminal. Perhaps there is a lounge for Qantas link ?
There is a Qantas Club in both domestic terminals. Members travelling JQ are able to use the club.

[airbusthreetwenty]

Bravo Vee Won, bravo.

:D:ok:
(http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=125747)

[ditzyboy]

In Sydney Qantas and Jetstar are in a different terminal. Perhaps there is a lounge for Qantas link ?

Qantas Club members travelling on Jetstar may use the lounge.

As someone who has worked for both Jetstar and Short Haul I can tell Impulse/QantasLink had a far superior service culture. Slowly being destroyed by management at Jetstar. When I left it was still better than the bulk of my colleagues at Short Haul - just my observation.

[Over and gout]

the days of pleasant, reliable, timely air travel have gone.


You forgot to mention expensive.

[Ejector Pump]

I agree that LCC are just that, low cost, but it doesn’t mean you have to be treated like you are irrelevant.

My only experience with J* was out of Sydney about a year or so ago. The flight was fine, managed to get a decent seat, although a little cramped (part and parcel of LCC that I except), the cabin crew were great and the drink was cold and not too expensive.

However the check in experience certainly let the whole show down. The check in booths changed several time, causing pax to move from line to line to line, the check in staff were rude and it was obvious that I (and probably the rest who were checking in) were nothing more than a hindrance.

Maybe my experience this day was a one off and the check in staff were just having a bad hair day, but I can’t really judge that as I have never bothered to fly with them since. A direct result of my first impressions.

It’s not that I don’t like travelling on a low cost airline per se, just this one doesn’t do it for me.

For those happy to accept mediocre treatment, go ahead, just that some of us like to be treated as we would treat others.

[Vee Won Kutt]

just that some of us like to be treated as we would treat others.
That is a very good point, and a very good motto to live by! In these days of push and shove, dog-eat-dog etc I believe that it's worth while to remember.

I have a big problem with the entire Qantas group management. I have a problem with the fact that they can get a bonus for squeezing more and more from their staff. It's so easy to get caught up with an 'us and them' mentality (for us too). It might be part of a managers role to get the most out of us, but it is a abhorrent to think that they can get paid more if they can find a way to pay us less.

Unfortunately the poor check-in staff are on the front line, and must often deal with continuous stress and unfortuanelty often rude pax. I know many Qantas check-in staff, and the job wears them down very quickly. They have very little time to deal with each customer and must continually push them through. Try being nice to the check-in staff next time you fly and see what reaction they give you!

As for the management at Qantas - look to GD. He seems almost inhuman. The only time he smiles is when he has screwed somebody over. That sort of management flows downhill and it pollutes the entire organisation below.

In case any of the QF management missed it at Sunday school:

Galatians 6:7-9
...for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.........and let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap......So then, as we have oportunity, let us do good to everyone......
Or to paraphrase it: 'What comes around, goes around.'

Our Nation was built on these sort of values, and it's a great nation - It's only now with these basic values vanishing that things are taking a turn for the worse.

Here endith the sermon.

[mauswara]

I applaud "allthecoolnamesarego" for taking the time to write of his first "jet*" experience.I can appreciate the frustration that motivates him to persevere with such a long post.I ,too, have had a bad experience with "the *".I've had 2 flights with them, my first and my last.They've taken the LCC concept to a new low.It starts with the "Disdain" you get from the check-in staff.You really do feel like a second class citizen from the word go.I get the impression the whole show is under staffed /overstretched.It has all been "calculated " to work by trendy,uni-grad types with all the paper qualifications, but no "real world" experience.The "you get what you pay for " excuse only goes so far.I buy "Low Cost" burgers from Macca's & Hungry Jack's & still get a "have a nice day plus a smile from the (usually) young staff. cheers maus.

[ozangel]

May I add...
(and i dont wish to blow my own horn here - just making a point)

I am not a fan of Jetstar service at the best of times. I have found their flighties un-relateable. At least the virgin girls and boys have personality, and the QF flighties have that 'wit' and 'class' that only comes with a full service carrier...

I worked as a Cabin Manager, working up to 200hrs a month duty, once or twice more, for $24,000. Thats about $390 a week after tax! So needless to say, we worked harder and for a lot less.

Due to mechanical problems we once had a flight out of CNS delayed 12hours. We were operating as a low cost carrier for a travel agency, so it was your typical DJ/JQ service.

As you can imagine, the 100 passengers (full load) were not happy at all, with many missing connections, or risking it.

We boarded them, dimmed the cabin lights, and as per our company policy, I as the CM got approval from the Captain to offer a free food and bev service. Needless to say, out of the two double carts and two single carts, there was only 1/2 a bottle of red left on arrival in brisbane.

While we proceeded to calm the pax, we quietly organised them into groups to share taxis to their respective destinations on arrival, ensuring taxis were there to meet us on arrival at 3am.

The pilots also helped us (via operations), organise several passengers to collect their baggage from a holding facility after hours, and pre-warned their hotels/motels/backpackers joints of their late arrival - in flight.

Needless to say, while still unhappy about the delay, they were very happy about our attempts to help them out.

Now, to quash a few rumours, between the three cabin crew, we had 18months cabin crew experience. We had all dealt with one or two fairly challenging and in one case serious emergencies, and always managed to keep it together when it was a short flight and full service for a full service carrier.

My point is, its not necessarily or always the length of service, or the pay. Its the support the crew get from their managers and the long term view of management affecting policy in a positive manner. That support saw the cabin crew happy to hang around after sign off at 3:30am and help people into taxis! While the support may not be financial, the good policy and assurance we had the support of the company to help passengers of someone who contracted us to fly for them made all the difference.

I miss flying there! (and for those interested, that was only 2 years ago).

[Prado]

So, you booked it on line, ticked all the boxes and didn't notice the (in not so small print) "Operated by Jetstar" information? And that's J*'s fault? You didn't use the QF Club (for whatever reason as, as holding a J* boarding pass, you can), and that's J*'s fault? Fog distruption, and that only happened to J*? No one called you? Does any airline with a day of operation disrupts close up??
Great way to spend day one of your holiday getting ticked off over a lot of things that you did have control over and, granted, some things you didn't, hope the rest of your break is enjoyable.

[GUARD]

The only thing that really bothers me about the whole LCC thing is that Jetstar go on and on about choice, when, in fact, the choice is no longer available and your only " choice " is not to go at all.

I think its wonderful for all the people one would have once seen at Central Station, sporting their pillows and mega-sized bags of chips and coke for the trip, but I'm sure they even expect more than they get here. And if I want to sample a better product why the bloody hell can't I make that CHOICE!

The wheel needs to turn for these sad assed management types who decide financially that J etstar is the product for everyone. It isn't and it never will be and the sooner Qantas and its infrastructure ( including bad deal EBA's which pay for all this ) stop propping up Jetstar, the better. Lets see how popular it is when it has to support itself based on its own alleged popularity.

Dixon wants this to work and will clearly do ANYTHING to prove himself. Like, say, with Jetstar Asia.........

GUARD!

[DirectAnywhere]

I would reckon give it maybe 2 years and Jet* Domestic will have business class, meaning the return of "choice".

Funnily enough, someone in Jet* will come to the blinding realisation, almost a Damscene conversion, that "THE MARKET" in Hobart, Cairns, Hamilton Island, the Gold Coast etc. is "DEMANDING" a business class product. Remember, "We'll never use allocated seating!". What a crock that turned out to be.

QF has pulled out of Hobart and Hamilton and has all but pulled out of the Gold Coast and Cairns. So who'll be left to provide a J class service? Jet* of course.

It may have initially been about growing the low yield market (I don't personally believe that for a second) but it's now all about screwing down wages and conditions. You'll pay the same price as you used to for a QF J-Class ticket and get the same service. It's just that the people who provide that service will be on roughly 40% less than their QF equivalents.

[max autobrakes]

That's because Alan ,with the dead fish hand shake ,says is the going market rate.:eek:

[Dave Incognito]

I was waiting around in Cairns on Tuesday night waiting to get that very plane on its return trip to Melbourne. The scheduled departure was 1:30pm and we took off just after 10pm. 8 ½ hrs late is enough to piss anyone off at the best of times but unfortunately things go wrong and planes run late.

However, it’s how you deal with these problems that makes the difference. I was at least lucky enough to get a call at 9pm the night before saying the plane would be departing at 1905. When I asked why it would be late I was simply told, “It has been rescheduled”.

From the time I checked in at 5:30pm (where again I asked why the plane was late, to no avail), to the time we boarded just prior to 10pm (4 ½ hrs later) there was only one PA announcement. Again no explanation, no apology offered, simply stating that there would be very limited catering on the flight. No one was telling us anything. Not even why another Jet Star flight to Melbourne with a much later scheduled departure time left before us.

The first person to explain why the plane was late or utter the words ‘sorry’ or ‘we apologise for the delay’ was the captain about 15min after we were airborne.

When we finally got to Melbourne, standing around the baggage carousels almost every single conversation revolved around how everyone had been kept in the dark and how the staff seemed indifferent to the fact that we were over 8hrs late.

It doesn’t matter what service you are selling, if your customers are unhappy because they feel neglected and unvalued they will go elsewhere. I lost count of the number of times I heard the phrase “I’m never flying Jet Star again”.

How hard is it to push the airport PA button and say “We are sorry from the delay, unfortunately due to unscheduled maintenance and fog in Melbourne this morning, the plane has been further delayed and we anticipate that we will be able to board you just prior to 10pm. Jet Star apologises for any inconvenience.”……? :confused: :ugh:

[RYAN TCAD]

Ever seen the movie 'Falling Down' with Michael Douglas? - There is a classic scene in which he is at Burger King and its 10:29am by his watch and he wants his breakfast.

He's not asking for much, but when he's told "sorry sir - breakfast has now finished, so you will just have to choose from the all day menu now", he's not a happy customer.

The customer is always right! - Regardless of establishmet.

Its a great movie - get it out to watch.

Bo!

[aircraft]

Vee Won Kutt, excellent response to his post. Very rare on prune to read such a fair treatment of Jetstar - well done!

allthecoolnamesarego, very well written but you need to come to terms with some little realities of life or you will continue to be angry and disappointed.

Jetstar is working hard to provide the travelling public with the fares they want. That the public have unreasonable expectations of the service they will receive is not the fault of Jetstar.

As Jetstar are a low cost carrier, you have got to expect those aspects of their service that you highlighted. Automated phone service? Exactly the sort of thing you should have been expecting. Long queues and terse check in staff? Exactly the sort of thing you should have been expecting.

The fog was not the fault of Jetstar. The stale sandwiches were not the fault of Jetstar.

Almost every passenger that has flown with an airline can report both good and bad experiences with that airline. I can relate both good and bad experiences with Qantas, Virgin and Ansett.

Jetstar gave you vouchers for free food and drink but you don't rate that anywhere near the act of the Qantas Captain that decreed there be free drinks. Why is that?

Here is a little tip: how you perceive an experience is dependent on your state of mind at the time (e.g. mood, personal circumstances). Your personal circumstances were favourable at the time of the Qantas free drinks but were not so for the Jetstar experience.

To those idiots that subscribe to the "if you pay peanuts, you get..." philosophy, you are exceptionally dim-witted indeed. Consider the vast majority of G.A. pilots in Australia - paid peanuts but still highly professional, highly competent and thoroughly responsible - nothing like monkeys!

[Led Zep]

I don't think allthecoolnamesarego actually wrote that post, they just posted it here for our benefit.

[Animalclub]

No one was telling us anything. Not even why another Jet Star flight to Melbourne with a much later scheduled departure time left before us.
DI
The airlines will never tell you this.

In your situation the Jetstar had to cope with ONE load of upset passengers.

If Jetstar had accommodated your load of passengers on the later sheduled aircraft, diverted the Melbourne aircraft to where you wanted to go - they would have had to off load those Melbourne bound passengers.

Thus Jetstar would have had TWO aircraft loads of disgruntled passengers.

If you're on Jetstar's side of the counter you can see the best commercial way out of the situation.

[Eagleman]

The "in" poor service response doing the rounds - "DON'T JETSTAR ME"

Congratulations AJ, you must be so proud!:D

[Ejector Pump]

Long queues and terse check in staff? Exactly the sort of thing you should have been expecting.

Long queues for sure, I would imagine that every airline in the world has long queues, even my local bank, grocery store and fast food shop have long queues but they manage to provide their service without the terse attitude.

IMHO, a smile and a pleasant manner is not really asking the earth.

Low cost carrier should not mean low cost attitude.

:) and have a nice day.

[Dave Incognito]

Animalclub,

The other aircraft I mentioned was flying exactly the same route as ours, i.e. CS-ML. It was also running late, however only by about an hour. In the whole time I was waiting in the terminal I don’t recall any apologies or updates regarding that flight either.

I can assure you that Jet Star had TWO loads of very unhappy customers. . Most of this unhappiness could have been avoided with some simple honesty and communication. Like I said the first person to offer this was the Capt. around 9hrs after our scheduled departure.

aircraft,

Do you seriously part with your hard earned cash with the expectation of poor service or terse staff? It doesn’t matter what you are selling, the customer you are dealing with is the one paying your wage and they deserve to be treated accordingly. Any moron can check your licence, print a boarding pass and stick a tag on your bag. The advent of self check in is testament to that. However, you get paid to be a representative of the airline and provide service. There is a big difference.

Going back to your GA analogy, you are dead right. The pilot doesn’t just get paid to get the aeroplane from A to B. If I told my passengers to simply get on / get off, not make any effort to ensure the flight is smooth or keep them updated with any revised ETA’s, I would expect to be having tea and bikkies with the boss. Why? Because I work in a service industry therefore providing service is part of my job. If passengers are boarding my plane expecting me to be terse (even in challenging circumstances) then I have failed to carry out my job properly. Ditto for check in staff.

[airbusthreetwenty]

Long queues for sure, I would imagine that every airline in the world has long queues, even my local bank, grocery store and fast food shop have long queues but they manage to provide their service without the terse attitude.

IMHO, a smile and a pleasant manner is not really asking the earth.

Low cost carrier should not mean low cost attitude.

:) and have a nice day.

Terse checkin staff? I wonder why?

When people fly Jetstar they automatically think of all the bad things they've heard and take them to the airport check in counter.

You can only hear the same old jokes about open seating so many times or be abused over excess baggage so many times.

When someone has thrown something at you, or if you've been spat on by a passenger there's only so much you can take.

As someone said a little earlier, try being nice to the checkin staff and see what a response you'll get.

[Mobi LAME]

I keep seeing in this thread how this poor soul 'bought' his Qantas ticket not knowing he would end up on a Jetstar flight. Didn't I see he had 'cashed in' some Frequent Flyer points. Now the question remains as to whether he accumulated those points by buying Qantas tickets with HIS money or they came from work related flying that his company paid for.

[B A Lert]

,,,,,. Also the flight numbers are not even normal flight number they are 1 didget longer & start with a 5 to indicate that it is not a QF flight but a codeshare flight. .......These ppl just need to get over it. .....As Mobi LAME said did this person even earn the FF points themselves or were the tickets all paid for by their company? Or maybe they even did a name transfer with the FF points that were earned by a family member?

Leane7 d, I think you need "to get over it". tell me

1. How would Joe Blow know the ins and out of the flight number allocation system? A number to most is a number is a number.

2. So what if the points were accrued as a result of an employer paying for the travel. This is a herring.

3. So what if the points were assigned by someone else. Good luck to them for having generous friends or family. Another irrelevancy.

What part of this following statement don't you understand? There is NO excuse for poor service or no service no matter who pays and at what cost.

[aircraft]

B A Lert, you said:
What part of this following statement don't you understand? There is NO excuse for poor service or no service no matter who pays and at what cost.

In an ideal world, you could expect "good service" irrespective of the circumstances, but if that is your expectation in this world then you are in for anger and disappointment.

[cartexchange]

Lots of talk here about front line staff offering bad service.....have you made an internal call to QF lately.
What service?
half the time they are too busy socializing and eating cakes to answer calls
The hypocrisy is unbelieveable........
Try calling operations and see what you get!
Rude, uncaring and non interested staff who have an intense dislike and jealousy of crew, and yet they wouldn't have a job if it wasn't for us..

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

I get the distinct impression that GD doesn't give a rats whether Jetstar Dom or Int actually makes any sort of profit.

I believe the end game is to get both organisations up and running, with the labour agreements signed off; if they make a profit fine, if not, in five years time the aircraft and crews will be repainted and wet-leased back to QF in QF colours.

Anyone who wants a job with QF will be shown the J* AWA and be told, "take it or leave it." The 787 will be first cab off the rank, any other new aircraft types will go to J* first, until it "folds" of course.

That is the reason that AO and the wet lease precedent is so important.

As GD said, "AO has served its purpose."

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

So aircraft had a good experience with Ansett. At his age, it must have been a good set of coloured pencils and a colouring in book! :}

[max autobrakes]

Hows about this rumour doing the rounds up at Air Japan amongst all the ex-AN boys.Thanks to Mark the Wheel a supposed sweet heart deal for DEC's has been done ,seeing as all of the Japan Air boys will be first cabs off the rank with B787 endorsements.So as per the add "lets fly JetStar".
Waiting for comments with bated breath. :ouch:

[Redstone]

Try calling operations and see what you get!
Rude, uncaring and non interested staff who have an intense dislike and jealousy of crew, and yet they wouldn't have a job if it wasn't for us..
A very prsumptuous comment there cartexchange...........

[travelscoop]

Great write up, I've linked into this page (http://www.travelscoop.co.nz/story.php?title=Jetstar-service-provides-unforgettable-travel-memory)from my site... I used a bit of editorial licence with the leadin snippet, hope that meets with the writers approval.

[Chimbu chuckles]

All this angst over JQ:rolleyes:

How about this for a theory.

If you want full service buy a ticket on a full service airline,

If you want to earn top money flying aircraft leave Australia and go overseas,

If you don't want to pay for a type rating don't,

If you are QF and seriously worried about your T&Cs, and you probably should be, go on strike...or resign and head overseas where your qualifications are in desperately short supply.

Sooner or later if enough people vote accordingly things may change...if not enough people vote accordingly they won't.

Either way you will feel much better.

But if someone else decides to buy a ticket on JQ or a type rating to further their careers or stay in Oz and be paid whatever the going rate is that is their choice and it shouldn't effect you one little bit.

Unless of course you are one of those people who seem to need to get extremely angry over circumstances not being as you would prefer and chose to blame others while winding yourself up into a little ball of seething tension.

Seems a waste of emotional energy to me. I don't worry about what the ugg boot set are paying for a ticket or getting service wise. I buy an ID90 J class ticket on my employer airline or those with an interline and travel in comfort served by FAs who I work with who always seem to have a smile. Once a year I travel free J class on annual leave travel and on one other occasion a year I travel J class anywhere on the network for the price of the taxes charged by the desto countries on our network. So does my family.

I don't lose sleep when other pilots decide to leave the expat life and return to work for JQ in Oz...it's their decision and the only effect on me is my pay will go up if enough leave...off you go fellas!!!

Get on with your lives as best you can and let others do the same...whinging in here achieves nothing other than raising your blood pressure.

There are choices out there in the world. Vote with your feet and win or don't and live with your choices...but for fecks sake if you can't/won't get off your arse shut up and suffer in silence.:ugh:

[pakeha-boy]

CC...mate!!when I,m growed up,Iwant to be just like you

..on a more serious note......well said:ok:

[airbusthreetwenty]

I agree with you Pakeha.

Well done CC.

:D

[Capt Claret]

Well bugger me Chuckles, what a breath of fresh air! :ok:

[Vee Won Kutt]

RE: The original waffle on page 1


Once again mate you’re having a go at the crew. I’m tipping you flew on an A320? If so the cabin crew can’t change the temperature, that’s the sole responsibility of the flight crew
I wrote this several days ago in some haste, and having done a little more investigating, it would appear that I was wrong regarding temperature control on the A320. It seems Cabin crew do have some limited control over temperature. I think they have +/- 2.5 degree control over what the flight crew set???
Please feel free to correct me if I'm still wrong all you A320 folk.
I will go back to my Dash 8, and eat a crew meal of 'humble pie' - It wouldn't be the first time.
I will still stand by what I said though - If it really was so hot in the cabin, the flight crew would be the ones who would have to do something about it.
PS. Allthecoolnamesarego - If you didn't write the diatribe, may I ask where you found it? Thanks.
:ok:

[pakeha-boy]

VWK.....on the A320,s we fly ,the inflight have no control whatsoever....not sure about others, as other carriers spec their A/C differently....depending on the time of year and the pax load,you are generally able to get the temp fairly close to comfortable with a little tweaking...... and a lot of "barking" from the 3 captains in the back....

Personally,have never understood why Airbus did not give the temp controls to the back and just leave a "master" control up front to overide the sytem if required....I reckon half my calls from the back concern temp....and the other half involve which lucky girl back there who won the right to ravage my body:} :} :}

[Vee Won Kutt]

Well, that settles that bit then - thanks. The cabin crew were probably on the intercom trying to get the crew to cool the cabin.

Cheers

[blueloo]

The beauty of a democracy is that people can and should voice their opinions, concerns and (good/bad) experiences. If people don't, things will never change.

If you dont like peoples whinges or concerns, then dont read them, listen to them, associate with them or respond to them.

Suffering silently will never achieve anything, nor will rolling over and giving up.

[bopple]

Hello all.
PLEASE NOTE: This is a very long post! It is aimed at addressing a few points from the original post, so you may wish to skip it.
I am the author of the article about the Jetstar trip and I would like to respond to the points raised by Vee Von Kutt and others. I would like you to know that I wrote the article out of frustration and with (what I thought..) a sense of humour. I appreciate that some people will disagree with my comments and to those of you who made valid arguments, thank you.
I was very surprised to read some of the vitriolic responses posted, and to be fair, I was making a strong statement myself, about an industry that feeds you. However, at no time did I attack any one person for simply raising issues, my ‘attacks’ were at the system and a number of staff I thought were poorly trained.
Firstly to respond to Golow: "Another pax who buys a cheap fare and wants to be treated like a king. Jetstar gets them all the time. Drive next time and save us all from you"
I am no king and do not expect to be treated as such, what I do expect is to be treated like a person. Simple things like a courtesy call to say "your flight has been delayed" or even a valid comment as to the reason behind the delay is a start. As I said in my story (which as has been quiet rightly pointed out) I failed to note that Jetstar was operating the service, so I was not buying a cheap seat – I was under the impression I was buying a Q seat. You say Jetstar gets ‘people like me’ all the time. From that I assume you know me? I am an honest person who treats others with respect and dignity. I was never rude to the staff (I know how to ask questions/raise concerns/complain without yelling) and I also know that often the counter staff are the receivers of unwarranted criticism from people who don’t know what they are talking about. I have some idea of the aviation industry and know that being rude to the guy that clocked on that morning was not going to achieve anything. Dissatisfaction can be conveyed in a personable fashion, and I hope that more people do it (not just in the aviation industry – but with all service providers).
Perhaps if more people like me did drive, Jetstar and all the other airlines wouldn’t have any passengers to worry about. What’s that old saying? "This airline would be great if it wasn’t for the passengers."
Di_vosh: "I'm wondering why he just didn't go up to the Q Club? Free food and drink, and a lot more quiet."
Fortunately I earn enough to be able to pay the hundreds of dollars that it cost to be a member of the Q Club, but many others don’t, and in fact is often the reason they are flying ‘the cheap’ seats in the first place. I was not the only person on that flight – the vast majority were not Q Club members so couldn’t go for a free beer. I think it rather presumptuous to think that we can all kill some time in the Q club. Many people are stuck in the crowded, noisy departure lounges with no escape. A ten-hour wait for them is even more harrowing than it is for me.
Aircraft: "Jetstar is working hard to provide the travelling public with the fares they want. That the public have unreasonable expectations of the service they will receive is not the fault of Jetstar."
I never expected to be waited on hand and foot. I merely expected courteous, professional service (I forgot to mention in the story that my 18 month old son and those other young children on the flight were not even given a seat belt). The crew operating that sector was, in my opinion, under trained for the task. Service provided when everything is on an even keel is usually easy to give. It is only when you have to deal with the unexpected does true professionalism shine through, or in this case, poor training becomes expossed.
You go on to say "As Jetstar are a low cost carrier, you have got to expect those aspects of their service that you highlighted. Automated phone service? Exactly the sort of thing you should have been expecting." Yes, but not a poorly managed/designed system. If no comments are made, how will this be fixed?
"Long queues and terse check in staff? Exactly the sort of thing you should have been expecting."
I am flabbergasted that I should expect terse check in staff! Since when is the customer a hindrance to the business they support? Without customers there is no business! I find this a mind-boggling concept that because the airline is a low cost carrier, they can’t afford to employ competent/polite/civil staff. I realise this country has gone through a number of IR reforms, but I was unaware that you could pay people less if they were terse.
"The fog was not the fault of Jetstar. The stale sandwiches were not the fault of Jetstar." I never stated that they were. I know Jetstar have no control over the weather or the price of sandwiches.
Mobi LAME: "I keep seeing in this thread how this poor soul 'bought' his Qantas ticket not knowing he would end up on a Jetstar flight. Didn't I see he had 'cashed in' some Frequent Flyer points. Now the question remains as to whether he accumulated those points by buying Qantas tickets with HIS money or they came from work related flying that his company paid for."
I was unaware that those people who use frequent flyer points should be treated any differently to those who ‘paid’ for the ticket. I was mistakenly under the impression that I was a ‘customer’.
By your reasoning it seems that each ticket should be stamped with a code allowing the cabin crew to see who really deserves service and who doesn’t. If I were to travel on a full fare ticket, which I paid for, or one, which my company paid for, should I be treated differently in that instance as well? Who pays is irrelevant to the service provider. Service to the customer is all that counts.
Leanne7: These ppl just need to get over it. In reference to this particular topic, this person could have easily earned the FF points on JQ then booked a QF flight using them, could he not? As Mobi LAME said did this person even earn the FF points themselves or were the tickets all paid for by their company? Or maybe they even did a name transfer with the FF points that were earned by a family member?
I fail to see the relevance of this comment when I am clearly discussing service and expectations.
I was particularly shocked to read the post by Vee Von Kutt and would like to cover a few points here. Vee Von, I simply travelled as a pax on this flight so therefore fail to see the relevance of this comment: "Remember that Jetstar is the Devil Spawn of your beloved Qantas. I will respond to some of your points."
I didn’t create Qantas or Jetstar, and it seems you are blamming me, a customer, for their short comings. Let’s be realistic here.
"Fair enough mate – It’s not for you, or for many others, but LCCs have enabled many others to travel cheaply.
1. The seating arrangement issue is being addressed
2. Qantas’ check in is any thing but great these days
3. The ‘user pays for everything’ with Qantas anyway."
Point 2. I was not discussing Qantas – I was discussing the service I received from Jetstar.

"My heart bleeds for you. Let’s get the violins out for this suited up battler! Oh the thought of a ruffled suit jacket – Those creases are oh so hard to get out.
1. Can’t really blame this one on Jetstar mate – It’s your beloved Qantas’ fault that they put you on a Jetstar flight.
2. Use you’re your excellent eyesight next time. Or ask Qantas to spell it out for you."
I think you may be missing the point. To the travelling passenger, they don’t know the ins-and-outs of code sharing. I ended up on a Jetstar flight and was under the impression that they were responsible for the call to inform me of delays. Remember – it is not only what happens, but how it is perceived by the passenger that counts. If the passenger perceives that it is someone’s fault – then to them, it is.

"So what is really the problem here? It all got sorted out. I don’t know – but I would say 50/50 a Qantas stuff up in the reservation system. Jetstar sorted it our for you."
I think the problem here is a systemic failure in the way information is transmitted. Again another thing to annoy the customer and give them a bad first impression. You might notice in my story, there are a number of little things that add up to make a bigger complaint. If there weren’t, my story would have been two sentences, and probably not even written at all.
"Remember Jetstar are the Devil Spawn of Qantas."
Remember that I’m a paying pax, not the MD of either company.
"Communication within any large organization can break down quickly."
Communication can and does break down, but this is exactly my point. The communication should be addressed so as to stop the passengers from receiving poor service and blaming the wrong people.
"Crank up the violins guys, and get out the tissues! Blame the over priced stale sandwiches on Jetstar – That would be right – you have obviously allowed your jaded bigotry to bias your opinion. However in fairness to you $8 may be a little on the lean side – The Qantas vouches I have seen are in the order of $14, but hardly worth getting worked up about mate."
Nowhere in the story do I blame Jetstar for the sandwiches. I am commenting on the fact that if they are going to give you vouches, they should be of sufficient value to be useful. If the going rate for a sanga is $7 and a drink $4, wouldn’t it make sense to give a voucher for $11? This is another one of those ‘small’ things that I mentioned that go to make up a good service. If I had been given three vouches, which got us all a sandwich and a drink, I would have made no comment.
What Jetstar didn’t put you up in the Hilton for a few hours – how…how….how…Stingy!
"Qantas never have delays, but…..but…..but….. if they did I bet they would put us up in the Hilton!"
Never expected them to put me up. My comment is to do with the fact that if I had been called in the first place, I wouldn’t be at the airport (thus saving Jetstar $16 dollars in vouchers). It is ridiculous to think they would put us in a hotel for a few hours, but not ridiculous to think they should call.
"Automated phone services are pathetic – no argument. However, once again this is hardly uniquely a Jetstar problem. "
I agree, but how about printing a phone number on the ticket and having an automated ‘service’ that works properly.

"As a loyal (But obviously slow learning) Qantas passenger I will save you some time also. Bare in mind that Jetstar are the Devil Spawn of Qantas.
1. Collectively Qantas treat there own like pond scum
2. Collectively Qantas treat there customers like the bottom dwellers that feed off pond scum
3. Collectively Qantas treat Jetstar (and the staff) like the excretion that scum sucking bottom dwellers pump out of their nether regions!
So if it was Qantas’ responsibility to call you, then it is no surprise to me that you were left in the dark. Good on that ‘real person’ to have the honesty to suggest you call in future."
The customer should never see internal politics of a company – they should see a transparent service.
Admittedly communication is obviously a problem that not only Jetstar, but the Qantas group should address. Yes the entire Qantas group – Qantas Link also!
If it was addressed, another point would be removed from my story – it’s getting shorter every second now. There is an old saying "Death by a thousand cuts".

"Would you like some syrup with your waffle sir????"
No thanks, just a phone call to keep me informed about what is happening.

I’m prepared to give the Flight Attendants the benefit of the doubt here as you are obviously at the point of blaming Jetstar about a jock itch! Sure they may have gathered near the toilets at some point – but did they spend the duration of the flight there? If so – inexcusable, if not however– then stop embellishing the argument.
No embellishment here. Again I never said the remained there for the ‘entire’ flight, but they were there for a lot of it. I go back to my comment about being under trained. When the going got tough (a number of disgruntled vocal passengers) they got going! There was one bloke who spent time with a passenger trying to calm her, but the majority tried to keep their distance.

"1. Qantas’ good name is on the nose.
2. That brilliant Captain that you have exalted to some god-like status was probably either doing as he was told or following company protocol that may or may not exist now. Did he pay for the drinks himself? Would it still happen at Qantas today? – Maybe? I don’t know as I have never seen it – I am sure some fellow diehard PPruners (The majority of which hate/fear Jetstar infinitely more than you) may shed some light on this point. Sure it was a nice thing to do and probably would have been appropriate in this situation too.
Point 1. Not to late to fix it if they want to (besides, my article was about the service I received on a Jetstar flight, not a Qantas flight)
Point 2. You seem to be arguing for me here. Make it company policy that allows some discretion on the staff’s behalf. "Tonight’s entertainment is on the house".
"Sir, I notice your kids are a bit tired and upset, would it help if they watched a video – free of charge?"
Such a little gesture to remind me that I am important to their business, and if you know anything about customer psychology, you might realise that people want to feel like they are valued. A free video or a drink just might do it. Who knows, I might even go home, complain to my friends about the lack of phone call, the excessive 10 hour delay, but say "they were really good, we got a free lunch and they let us use one of those video things to help calm down little Johnnie"

Having the food onboard is a good tip mate. Same problem at Eastern (and I make the presumption that it would be the same at Qantas) – I understand that it’s a Qantas group policy that if catering is not there then the flight will not be delayed. It sucks I’m sure for the customers, but once again not uniquely a Jetstar problem. I can assure you the cabin crew cringed when they saw the catering was missing! They are human too!
Of course they are – but I go back to training and passing information. No PA to explain why there was no food.
"Once again mate you’re having a go at the crew. I’m tipping you flew on an A320? If so the cabin crew can’t change the temperature, that’s the sole responsibility of the flight crew. It’s a pain when it gets to hot/cold – sure. There are other possibilities though, i.e. the aircraft had been in for maintenance so something may still be faulty, or a setting may be slightly out. Did they sort the temperature issue out? You may not have seen one of the cabin crew on the intercom asking the pilots to "take a couple of logs off the fire".
Yes I am having a go at the crew. I don’t subscribe to this "it’s someone else’s fault, lets not actually blame someone because they might get upset" philosophy. They crew were not up to the task.
If there was something wrong with the air conditioning and the crew couldn’t change the temp, perhaps an intercom call informing the passengers would help. Again, if they knew that there was a fault, (instead of leaving me thinking they didn’t care or weren’t trained), they should inform the pax. This way we could complain to our friends about how hot it was, and say, "but it wasn’t the actual crew, it seems the aircraft had a fault – just wasn’t our night! They were really good and kept the bottles of water coming"
"Thank God I’m not back down the back. I have seen your type and I wouldn’t have the patience to tolerate you. …..You Toff! If there is more to your story then elaborate on the above comment (and don’t embellish it!)."
If you had been on the flight with me, you would have noted that I was either walking the aisle with my son, or sitting quietly in my seat typing on my computer. When I did ask for the temperature to be turned down, I did it in a polite fashion. I was never rude to anyone (unhappy is a different thing) and made no noise about the flight.
I embellished nothing about the story. There was a lady passing a sick bag around collecting details from the passengers in order to make some kind of ‘class action complaint’ and when it got to me there were almost as many signatures and phone numbers as there were people on board.
"Is that damned drink the only thing that would have placated you?"
No, but it would have gone a very long way.
P.S.
1. Pull you head in!
2. Happy ironing, you Toff!
No need for a personal attack. This is not a very professional comment from someone working in the industry - –highlighting you work for (and therefore REPRESENT QantasLink). Might I suggest that instead of blaming me – the customer, you might look towards your company and It’s approach. You appear (from your post) to be hostile to customers complaints. This is exactly the kind of lack of professionalism am referring to.
I wrote this in order to highlight what I see as a number of areas that Jetstar is failing to provide service. I have obviously offended you, not my intention, but trust that you can look at these faults with a level head and perhaps address them internally (if they occur in your company).
The title "Jetstar Service?" is probably a bad name, as Qantas have some issues here as well. Perhaps "Airline Service" or "Service" would have been better. Remember without us complaining/annoying/frustrating pax, you would not have a job. I suggest you try and keep us instead of palming us off.
I haven't complained to JetStar, because I think more people are now aware of my trip because of the net, than would be if one person in the complaints department got a letter from me.

[Led Zep]

Nice reply! :D

[DirectAnywhere]

Allthecoolnamesarego never actually said in his/her first post that he/she wrote it.

I'd suggest bopple wrote it elsewhere and it was cut and pasted.

[Eagleman]

bopple

your were jetstared!

[blueloo]

I can't remember who wrote it here first, but it still rings true:


Jetstar: Australia's Only 1 STAR Airline!



:D

[Jet Jockey]

Been flying A320 for 12 years and can confirm that the newer versions in last 2 years do allow Cabin attendends to set cabins temps +or- 3c on the F/A panel in forward galley. That variation is on what the pilots have set on their overhead panel. More than likely if the cabin is a little stuffy is because the pilots have set low flow on the airconditioning packs which has been airbus policy since day dot with less than 115pax on board to save .001% fuel. It is a policy I don't subscribe too cause I have seen too many pax require oxygen. But none the less it is employed worldwide:)

[Vee Won Kutt]

Bopple.

I want to express a few things.

Firstly - It was unprofessional of me to have a go at you, and even though there is much of the original diatribe that I disagree with, for what it's worth......I'm sorry. I guess I got swept away with the 'face-less' side to the Net.

Secondly - I guess I am fed up at people firing a broadside at Jetstar all the time, when often it's not entirely justified. I think I made my point that not everything that happened to you that day was purely a Jetstar problem; Some of it was a problem with the Qantas group, and also with airline travel in general.

Thirdly - I surrender! I have heard too many bad things about Jetstar. I won't accept personal attacks against their staff, however after talking with quite a few Jetstar travellers recently I have made a conclusion: Young, inexperienced, and possibly undertrained cabin staff (A deadly combination)! The 'offenders' may be great people, but lack the experience to manage a cabin (especially with the ratio's of crew to PAX). Every 'bad' story about cabin service that I have heard seems to come back these points.

Lastly - I hope that in time the airline will improve. I am sure there are many top emploee's in Jetstar, and I hope that as the company evolves from it's infancy, that it will have a great future.

Very lastly - I think I understand a little about what you are on about. The magic does seem to be vanishing from flying. The magic is what got me involved in the first place! Let's bring back the MAGIC!

[bopple]

Vee Won,

Thank you for your honest reply and appology for the personal attack. I understand that critisism can feel like a personal sling and appreciate that tempers can rise. Thank you for taking the time to read my very long reply and to comment on it.

I agree with you about the magic, but after the events in London this week, feel that sadly those days are gone. Let's hope that we the travelling passengers, and you the profressional aircrew can continue to enjoy flying despite the new threats.

I too hope that the young staff at Jet Star do get the oppurtunity to improve and that they are not the brunt of unwarrented critisism. As you said there are many dedicated people trying to make the airline work. All the best to them.

Safe flying



:ok:

[Prado]

Bopple

You "hope the young staff at J* do get the opportunity to improve and are not the subject of unwarrented criticism" yet you start a thread like this complete with high emotive content based on the fact YOU didn't understand YOU'd booked a Jetstar flight? I bet you were just such a pleasure to deal with at check in. Perhaps a little reflection on your own behaviour may make you think about what sort of post the J* staff member(s) concerned could make if the shoe were on the other foot.

Good work.:ugh:

Prado.

[amos2]

I really am quite amazed at this thread!

Have flown as a pax with Virgin and Jetstar, have flown 737s and 320s as operating crew over a long career, and quite frankly can't see much difference between the two...airlines and aircraft that is!

Hey...they are both low cost carriers! You get what you pay for!

But, for what it's worth, Jetstar get the nod from me!

[DEFCON4]

....an oxymoron.
The following term is a contradiction of the preceding term.
Have flown Jetscar several times out of necessity not choice .What a nightmare.Poorly trained inexperienced children attempting to manage adults in a free for all will never work.The longhaul operation will be frightening if its run on the same lines.
The QF LHR based services are a perfect example..no service and indifference.....poor training...little or no experience
Dixon and his bloody experiments mean I try wherever possible to fly with another carrier other than those of the Qantas "Group"
I work in the wine industry and travel domestically and/or internationally around 4 times a month.I feel that this gives me enough insight to form a comparison and make an informed comment.

[resboy]

As a JQ flightie myself (or a "poorly trained inexperienced child attempting to manage adults in a free for all" as DEFCON4 would fondly refer to me as := ) with a few years experience in airlines I'll add my two bits worth...

1. I used to work for Qantas, queues, rolling weather delays, delay handling, T&Cs, automated phone lines, call centres etc, are not markedly better or worse than those of any other airline. Having worked for three different airlines now, AN, QF & JQ, each with very different philosophies, there are just so many aspects to an airline operation that are completely generic.

2. QantasClub members flying JQ do have full access to the Lounge (and there is a QFclub at T2 in SYD to service QFlink & JQ pax).

3. Advising of a delay in advance is the responsibility of where the booking was made, be it the travel agent, airline, 3rd party etc. In this case it was the responsbility of QF.

4. At JQ we don't own the catering and therefore we're unable to offer complimentary F&B to pax. Catering is owned by third party supplier and is sold directly to the pax with JQ as the middleman. And on the point of complimentary F&B, from a check-in perspective, QF were just a stingy in giving out vouchers etc... my ability to perform complimentary service recovery was just as difficult as QF as it is at JQ. At the end of the day an airline is a business, need i say anymore :E

5. Yes we can adjust the temp in the 320 cabin, personally I've responded to plenty of pax requests to do so. The crew notice the warmth too, yes we are human, and personally I don't like working in a sauna.

This industry has changed so much in recent years that it is just impossible to hark back to a complimentary drink in 1979. That airline environment, which is still fresh in our memory, will never come back. Never, never, never.

And just as a little end note ...
Jetstar and Virgin have played a great role in getting more people into the skies. The destination in discussion here, CNS, once upon a time only had a non-stop service by each QF and AN on the weekends. Interesting to see only a few years down the track MEL now has up to 3 non-stop services a day from each DJ and JQ, plus a daily service by QF. When I started selling AN tickets only a few years back the discount return ticket was around $750 with a 21day adv purchase restriction. JQ's FULL FARE is $800 return, with discounts from probably half that. Passengers now have more choice than they can poke a stick at.

End of rant ;)

[DEFCON4]

Resboy...you are not a typical JQ Cabin Crew member.
I do not blame employees for their youth, inexperience or poor training.
They are however being set up to fail by their employer.
At the end of the day, experience and training count.
I notice, and can tell the difference.
The crew make the travel experience either bearable or not.
The passengers using LCCs now were using Greyhound a few years ago.
They are now using a "flying" greyhound...nothing more,but a whole lot less.
Have no expectations of these carriers and you will not be disappointed.
I do feel sorry for the crew but the passengers are getting what they pay for....transport to a destination.
All the niceties are gone or must be paid for.
Pay for a pillow or headset?
I don`t think so.:=

[qcc2]

"This industry has changed so much in recent years that it is just impossible to hark back to a complimentary drink in 1979. That airline environment, which is still fresh in our memory, will never come back. Never, never, never. ":* :ugh:
my dear boy, you MUST travel more on real carriers. even Qf (domestic)offers free drinks at certain times of the day. internationally the product developement amongst carriers has been outstanding and very much above the seventies standards. you may consult various airline websites for products etc.

[resboy]

worked for the aforementioned "real" airline for a number of years and fully understand the product offering. i probably wasn't been specific enough with my comments. what i was trying to get at was the environment we once had with Ansett and Qantas domestically is gone and will never be the same. thus the customer has a choice and the full service option still exists for people who want it. just as the low fares no trimmings option exists for the bargain hunters. everyone has their place.