Continental pilot fired after intoxication charge

[Airbubba]

Continental pilot fired after intoxication charge

10:00 PM CDT on Tuesday, July 25, 2006

Associated Press

HOUSTON – A Continental Airlines captain removed from a flight because another employee smelled alcohol on his breath was fired Tuesday, the airline said.

The pilot, who was not identified, tested above the legal limit for alcohol for pilots, the company said. He was dismissed two days after being removed from the aircraft on suspicion of intoxication, said Sarah Anthony, a Continental spokeswoman.

The pilot was scheduled for Flight 706, from George Bush Intercontinental Airport to Tampa, Fla., on Sunday. It was his first flight of the day.

He rode on an airport bus to the terminal with another employee, who reported to the airline that he smelled alcohol on the pilot's breath. The pilot was removed from the aircraft before passengers boarded, Continental said in a statement.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/072606dntexpilotfired.30d2184.html

[TVIR40]

that he smelled alcohol on the pilot's breath. and that means straight away he has been drinking!!

I had a work colleague where a dispatcher was adamant that he had been drinking, called her sup over to check out said pilot. They got him breathalised .............result neg! You know why he smelt of wine, he had had a chicken in white wine and garlic sauce for his lunch made by his wife 20 minutes before he arrived at the airport to report for duty! He had to collect his flight brief from the dispatcher office of the handling agent and then go to do the flight planning!

Boy did some heads get pulled into the big cheeses office on that one!

So not everyone is guilty on face value!

[HotDog]

I happen to cook a lot of dishes with wine. The alcohol evaporates in the cooking process and your breath does not smell of alcohol, garlic yes. Maybe that's what the dispatcher smelt. If your breath smells of alcohol, it will show on the breathalyser.

[Hold West]

and that means straight away he has been drinking!!




No, but this sure does:

The pilot, who was not identified, tested above the legal limit for alcohol for pilots, the company said. He was dismissed two days after being removed from the aircraft on suspicion of intoxication

[Saintsman]

Think of this from a flight safety point of view. At least someone had the guts to say they thought something was not right. That's the sort of person you want, the one that notices a panel missing or a leak. The one that says it may be nothing - but....

It never hurts to check. Someone might have been eating garlic or have been drinking but its better than ignoring it and doing nothing.

[Flying Lawyer]

SaintsmanSomeone might have been eating garlic or have been drinking but its better than ignoring it and doing nothing.
So are you recommending reporting a pilot whose breath smells of either garlic or (alcoholic) drink and you don't know which?
Or mentioning it to him/her and asking which?

If you mean report, then I pity any pilot who suffers from halitosis.
I read somewhere that about 25% of adults suffer from it regularly, regardless of what they eat/drink.

[Saintsman]

Garlic was mentioned else where.

The point I was trying to make was that if someone is unsure they should be encouraged to check, whether by reporting or otherwise. Surely its better to do something rather than nothing?

If all is well, what have you really lost?

[Pigsfly]

There are many agents which may display odours similar to alcohol on the breath. It is not a definite proof someone has consumed alcohol. The only proof is scientific analysis, blood, urine or breath testing.

But frankly, I have no sympathy for an individual who is ready to fly an airplane having consumed alcohol, remembering all companies have a "bottle to throttle timeframe".

[mustafagander]

I am rather concerned to read that this pilot was given the "zoombo" straight away, apparently without investigating whether s/he had an alcohol problem. Most civilised management regimes offer some sort of path to recovery.

That s/he MUST be removed from duty when intoxicated is unquestioned, but I'd like to think that there was at least a little investigation into the circumstances.

[backofthedrag]

Mustafagander - you are so right in essence. However if a pilot attempts to go through the pre-flight process whilst above the very tiny alcohol limit , he or she has committed a serious imprisonable offence , and the Company would not have to justify dismissal.
If , however, an employee reported that they felt they had an alcohol problem, most Companies in Western civilisations would put them through a drying - out program , rehabilitation and back to flying.
The answer is - for those that have a problem - report it and let the Company sort it out at their expense.
I had a friend who refused to do that- offered his resignation after two drink drive offences within one week ,both in uniform ,and subsequently committed suicide.
If you do not have a problem , remember the limit is tiny. If your workmate says you smell of alcohol - go sick immediately and go home.

[Charly]

I am rather concerned to read that this pilot was given the "zoombo" straight away, apparently without investigating whether s/he had an alcohol problem. Most civilised management regimes offer some sort of path to recovery.
That s/he MUST be removed from duty when intoxicated is unquestioned, but I'd like to think that there was at least a little investigation into the circumstances.

You´re absolutly right! If somebody has a serious drinking problem, it'll unfortunatly show someday on duty.

Here you had the case, that you had the possibility to recover an alcoolic before you ruin his life without the public noticing it and without a law being broken yet (yes, i know, the attempt is allready illegal, but at least he hasn´t boarded the plane, when i understand the case correctly).

But if it wasn´t an alcohol problem but rather an attitude problem? And the company finally had the possibility to fire him? You´ll never know...

[DuncanF]

An observation from a humble passenger ...

I agree with the thoughts that any company should look to help staff members with alcohol problems. But by reporting for duty as he did, is not the pilot in denial of his own problem? If he appreciated the fact that he had a problem and needed help then he would surely have excused himself from duty. You cannot be helped until you ask for help. A bit of a Catch 22 dilemma.

Duncan

[jondc9]

there is no excuse for a pilot to drink and then fly.

BUT:


Many people simply don't know the stress involved with flying. Looks glamourous and sort of nifty. And even though booze and pilots have been around as a topic for many many years, I am afraid things might even get worse.


Back in the good old days, a pilot had a fair amount of time off duty to have some sort of life with his family. Scheduling has gotten nutty and you end up spending 28 hours in a hotel somewhere. You worry about your pay, pension and all sorts of things

throw in any tendency for alcoholism and bang...you have a cocktail waiting to be stirred and not shaken.



Sadly too, though unconfirmed, I think pilot suicides are on the rise...not in the cockpit mind you (though some questions about some crashes).


Add percription pain killers to the equation, emotional disturbances and it is something to think about.

Especially if we ever go to one pilot airliners! (hey, why is the dog barking! :-) )


j

[Pigsfly]

Jondc9 raises an important point. Aviation is not alone in occupations which produce an excessive tendency towards drinking the "blues" away. The pressures on Crew are mind boggling at times.

So should it be up to colleagues to be more forward in spotting pilots who are developing a problem backed up by employers who will allow a "penalty free" chance to address the issue. I have seen this approach work in companies and the individuals did benefit greatly from it and retained their positions.

[Pidge]

Mustafagander - If your workmate says you smell of alcohol - go sick immediately and go home.

Agreed. But this person didn't get that option. This guy was just reported. I would send the person home sick (in a taxi) but assuring him I would be taking the issue further if he didn't. If they know they had been drinking they would go home, and anyone who reports for duty under the influence has a drinking problem, which this experience would hopefully make them realise they have.

At least they get the option to help themselves and hopefully in the long run keep their job and recover.

[Mac the Knife]

So I'm the airline and it's reported to me that he smells of alcohol.

I'd call him in. I wouldn't breathalyse him 'cos then it's irrevocable.
I'd say, "Go home. If you are having alcohol or domestic or stress problems I want to know about it RIGHT NOW so we can get you help, because the next time there's even a hint of a mint you're going out the door so fast your feet won't even touch the ground."

I've done it to a colleague who is now 6 years clean (and happy and OK).

Just my 2d.

Mac

[bjcc]

FL

No one (except you) mentioned bad breath. Nor did anyone advocate breath testing everyone with that, not garlic on their breath.

The 2 smells are very different. But then you don't get to smell the 2 often from the defence/prosecution/Judges seats in court do you.

Have a walk round on a few clubs/pubs on a saturday night, and you'll not mistake the 2.

[Caudillo]

What is the blood garlic limit for flying?

[Flying Lawyer]

No one (except you) mentioned bad breath.
Well spotted, bjcc. :ok: It was an original thought.
If you could get out of the habit of seeing everything through a police constable’s eyes, with practice and patience you might even have one yourself eventually.
In the meantime, if you read Saintsman’s post #5 and really think about it, you'll see it wasn't very original. (Clue = garlic.)

[Ignition Override]

The garlic consumption must increase-some of our ruthless Upper Mgmts are worse that a vampire, much more bloodthirsty:E , as they drain over US $50,000,000 in one year into their own pockets, from a bankrupt airline with cash flow problems.

Garlic is supposed to keep vampires away from you.

[bjcc]

Original thought? Or silly comment?

It's not a court, so why cloud issues you can't get round by challanging with evidence. Read post 2, in conjuction with post 5.

[captain_jeeves]

The pilot, who was not identified, tested above the legal limit for alcohol for pilots, the company said. He was dismissed two days after being removed from the aircraft on suspicion of intoxication


Many people simply don't know the stress involved with flying. Looks glamourous and sort of nifty. And even though booze and pilots have been around as a topic for many many years, I am afraid things might even get worse.


I know that a lot of people are not going to like what I am about to say, but:


He tested above the legal limit; and,

As a Commander, he should by this time in his career, understand that there is stress involved with his position. But he must be able to deal with that stress, without the need for a relaxation stimulant prior to flight.


If my feelings on this offend anyone, I'm sorry. I can accept a person making any number of mistakes, but the decision to fly an aircraft while intoxicated, is not one of them.

Cheers (however inappropriate that word may be regarding this subject) /cj