Training in Ireland (Incl Licence topics)

[leku]

I would like to know how to convert my license,Austrian commercial helicopter to an Irish one.As both countrys are in the European Union,I don´t know if I have to go through any tests.Does anyone can give me advice or any contact direction of the irish aviation authoritys?Thanks in advance.

[Rotorbike]

Question:
Safety Regulation : Can I convert my licence to an Irish Licence?

Answer:
It is no longer possible to convert a foreign CPL/ATPL to an Irish CPL/ATPL since Ireland commenced the implementation to JAR-FCL in November 2000. Consequently, all non-JAR State Licence holders must now undertake Theoretical Knowledge training and Flight training at a JAR-FCL Approved Flight Training Organisation (FTO).

At present, there are no FTO’s approved in Ireland, however, this position could change in the near future. There are, however, a number of approved FTO’s in the UK which you may wish to contact with a view to undertaking a course of study leading to the issue of a UK JAR-FCL CPL/ATPL.


From Irish Aviation Authority (http://www.iaa.ie/) FAQ's

Email [email protected]

The easy answer: if you have a JAA licence it is convertable if you haven't then you will have to do everything.

Hope that helps

[redandwhite]

If you do have a JAA licence, the only requirement is to do 'an appreciation' of Irish Air Law. This can be done by an Irish company if you join one.

[Irlandés]

Leku,
I dropped into Aviation House at Christmas and asked them the same question (for a NZ license) and they told me more or less what Rotorbike has posted.

It looks like (in my case anyway) it's going to be a long uphill struggle to get my license recognised.

Best of luck,

Irlandés

[leku]

Thanks you all.I contacted the IAA and now I´m waiting for an "official" answer.Cheers.

[Irlandés]

Leku,
can you post the reply here when you get it?

Thanks!
Irlandés

[leku]

Hey Irlandés,don´t worry I´ll do it as soon as I get the answer.Anyway, I would like to contact you by e- mail to share some info,and if you have any question about helos in Spain or South America, do not hesitate to contact me.If you give an e-mail address I´ll contact you at once.Cheers mate.

[Alan.Devins]

Does anyone know of any companies in Ireland that do helicopter training sponsorship.

A friend of mine told me CHC do it, and that its on there website, but I cant see it, maybe I missed it.

Thanks
Al

[Sailor Vee]

Alan,

'Fraid your friend was misleading. CHC Ireland certainly do not do any sponsorship. At the mo' I don't know of any company in Ireland that does any form of sponsorship.

You may have to do a bit of fishing around but I think it's highly unlikely you'll find any at all anywhere. Sorry!:(

[Alan.Devins]

Me thought that was the case, thanks for the reply anyway.

Al

[nulian]

Hi -
Anyone familiar with the procedures (if any) to convert an FAA-issued PPL or CPL license to the equivalent Irish one?

Is it a straight-up change, or is there a flight test involved? Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Peter

[nulian]

OK - so the same question applies to obtaining an equivalent JAR license. Anyone know?

[VeeAny]

Assuming flungdung is correct (which I am sure he is)

JAR FCL-2.015 applies,

Different requirements if PPL or CPL (strangely enough).

CPL is dealt with in JAR FCL-2.015(c) which basically says you can't convert unless there is a reciprocal arrangement with a non JAA state , as far as I am aware that doesn't exist with the USA so it can't be done.

You may however be able to validate your license for 1 year based on the arrangements in JAR-FCL 2.015 appendix 1. (Lots of hoops to jump through, which I wont list here).

PPL in Appendix 2 to 2.015 and says

You need an ICAO licence.

You need a JAR class 2 medical as a minimum.

Have more than 100hrs as a helicopter pilot.

Pass Air Law and Human performance exams.

Relevant bits of subpart F which i presume means 2.240.

Pass a flight test for initial PPL issue.

Hold an acceptable RT licence (which means usually passing the RT practical and written exams, and applying for the licence).

JAR FCL-2 Section 1 can be found at

http://www.jaa.nl/section1/jars/444077.pdf

The pages you want are
JAR FCL-2.015(a-d) and 2.016 pages 5 & 6
Appendix 1 pages 18 & 19
Appendix 2 page 20.

It is of course possible to apply for a JAA licence if you hold an FAA licence and your hours will count towards it at least JAR FCL2.016 applies in this case and it is not a 'conversion'. Simply stated.

Have a Class 1 Medical.
Training as required to pass 'the equivalent' JAA knowledge exams.
Flight training as required at the discretion of an FTOs head of Training.
Pass the Flight Test.
Hold an RT Licence.

All explained in LASORS 2005 available at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS2005.PDF

If you need any more details let me know !

Cheers

V.

[Max Takeoff]

Hi all,

A friend over the water is interested in starting their PPL at Weston and asked me if I new any good schools there. Not having any knowledge of the schools or airfield I thought I would ask here for them.

All advice passed on with thanks.

Max T.

[JAF0]

Hi, as far as I know, theres 2 heli training schools at weston, Im not sure if there the same one, but they have different websites.

http://www.eirecopter.ie/eirecopter/Main/Home.htm

and

http://www.ehaireland.com/map_eha.html

Check out the flyinginireland forums too, theres some members who fly out of weston who might know better.

http://www.flyinginireland.com/forum/index.php

;)

[Johe02]

I think Irish Helicopters are there too. . and the tower is getting a lot of complaints from the neighbours. .

[JAF0]

do IH do training?, I know they have a bo105 and a 206, Im not sure if they even do conversions.

[Max Takeoff]

Thanks everyone,

Have found European Helicopter Academy and Eirecopter at Weston. Has anyone flown with either of these or know anything about their service.

Thanks again
Max T.

[Titus Frisbee]

Hi Max
There are currently two schools at weston as per JAFO.
The BIG difference between them is the type aircraft they use. EHA train exclusively with 300 CBi. Whereas Eirecopter use R22. I know Eirecopter have recently accuired a Schweizer of some description but I don't know what model or their long term plans for it.
TF

[tu154]

Did my PPL with Eirecopter. Best of the bunch at Weston. Good crew of instructors there at the minute too.

[JAF0]

lol, do you work for em norunway, thats an impressive ad :D

I fly there too, agree with all you said, great place.

[redorangedog]

Anybody know anything about a private S61 going to the west coast of Ireland ?
Who's going to fly it and own it ?

[IRLS61]

I could tell, but then again:p :{

[dstone]

Hello fellow Ppruners, i am looking for FAA Helicopter CFI's in Ireland preferably in the Dublin area in order to get my annual flight review.

:)

[Gordy]

Paddy is your man, he is currently at Sun'n'fun in Florida----I will attempt to let him know to contact you. He is current in most types.

[Sean H]

This is a question for some heli pilot ou there!
I have my JAA PPL! I would like to get a JAA CPL H by getting an FAA CPL A first then convert that to FAA CPL H then convert that to JAA CPL H ???
hOW DO i do it??????

[HillerBee]

There's almost no advantage by getting a FAA CPL(A) first. Second there is no such thing as a conversion from FAA to JAA. You just have to sit all the exams and do a flight test.

So either go for the FAA CPL(H) or do the JAA CPL(H) from the beginning.

[One of these days]

As always this is the way I understand it, but someone more knowledgable than myself (not difficult) may correct me.

Once you have acquired your FAA CPL(A) you can do an add on licence to get the FAA CPL(H), then to covert that to the JAA CPL(H) you will either have to sit at least the 9 JAA CPL exams (or 14 ATPL) and pass the JAA CPL(H) flight skills at test.

OR

After your FAA licences are completed you can sit the exams and complete a JAA CPL(H) modular course.

Either way for the JAA 185 hours and the exams are a required, the exams tend to be the thing that upsets most people and generally take up a lot of time. You do get some credit from the FAA for FW hours but the JAA aren't so accommodating.

Hope that helps?
OOTD's

[Sean H]

Thanks for the advice guys!
Im trying to get my JAA CPL H,the cheapest way I can because im broke!
Mabey that HAI school in Florida are alright but the JAA CPL H,costs like €50,000!!! alot of money and then do a CFI on top of that!!!!
Any more advice on getting my Heli career on the go would be good!
BTW, i am applying to the airforce but i probaly wont get in so ill have to pay for all my training!!!!

[WingRotor]

HillerBee is right, HOWEVER..
You need to consider a couple of things here..
1. JAA License or FAA license and why?
2. Flight hours (experience) to get your career started.
What I do know, is that it's gonna be a hard time getting a job as a commercial helodriver in the UK, or Europe for that matter, with a couple of hundred flight hours.
This is where the FAA license comes in to play.
Because, on a J1 Study visa in the US, you are allowed to stay for about 24 months doing your training and hopefully getting some flight experience as a flight instructor after. (Yes, flight instructors are hired with less than 200 Hr's experience in the US!)
Then you enroll with a british ground school ie. for your full JAA training, there is no "conversion", however you will already have a good foundation from the FAA training plus lots of flight hours to build on now!
You can actually do the JAA CPL-H fligth test with Helicopter Adventures Inc. in FL.
Last but not least.. Price! A dual flight lesson in the US (east coast), in a Schweizer 300 CB/i is about $205 Hr these days.. What is it in the UK?? Lots more I'm sure!
Good Luck!
WingRotor

[BaronG]

Thanks for the advice guys!
Im trying to get my JAA CPL H,the cheapest way I can because im broke!
Mabey that HAI school in Florida are alright but the JAA CPL H,costs like €50,000!!! alot of money and then do a CFI on top of that!!!!
Any more advice on getting my Heli career on the go would be good!
BTW, i am applying to the airforce but i probaly wont get in so ill have to pay for all my training!!!!

As depressing as it is, that 50000 Euro is actually pretty cheap for an integrated course.... Try getting a similar package from Europe and see what it comes to.

Modular will probably be dearer still, but at least you can work while doing it - it just takes longer normally.

There are a lot more things to think about on top of the basic JAA CPL(H) - and all of it will lead to more money required. :rolleyes:

BaronG

[aurora1827]

In the UK, an hour in an R22 could easily cost you $600.....:eek:
Ofcourse there are variances, but if money is an issue, you'll never get away cheaper in the UK.

Work for a few years, save the money, go to the US....welcome to the club of pre-flight moneysavers :D - it's not fun, but there's not much else to do.

[helilad]

There is no easy way.If you are 17 as you suggest bite the bullet and get on with it,beg borrow or steal.50k may be hard to come by but its a cheap career if its really your passion.I suggest you get a Class 1 medical right away and do a ppl first,if your still keen then make it a career.;)

[Heliport]

Sean H

There's an enormous amount of advice and information based on other people's experiences here: Training FAQ (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122944)


Heliport

[cpi2003]

I am current training for my PPL(H) in Ireland and have about 10hrs completed. I had a Class 2 medical done some time back but it looks like I will not pass as my eyesight was too poor before I had the Laser Operation (although I have perfect 20/20 vision now:ugh:). I have made my case to the IAA but its not looking good.

This leaves me with only one option – heading over to the US to train under the FAA.

I am only interested in fly as a hobby so I am wondering how this will affect me when I return. Am I correct in saying I can only fly G registered a/c in Ireland. If so, what are the chances of finding/renting an R22/Schweizer here?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

[HillerBee]

There are several N-Reg helicopters in Ireland. You can also do FAA training in Ireland.

pm. for more details

[Sailor Vee]

Can't see why the IAA are a problem, get yourself a medical done, if you pass, they can't argue. If you don't have to wear spectacles/lenses you even cop out of the JAA requirement for an optemetrists report.

[Kangia]

As far as I know if you have an FAA licence in Ireland the I.A.A. will recognise it for private use on either N or EI reg aircraft. So maybe the FAA private is all you need if you just want to do some pleasure flying.

It could have changed of course but that's what they said a while back.

[Vertical T/O]

If you get a FAA PPL you can fly EI reg or N reg in Ireland with no problems. You have to have a FAA Class 2 Medical in Ireland for the IAA to recognise the FAA Licence. SO as long as you kepp your FAA Class 2 Medical current you can fly away for a hobby. Most training companies in Ireland rent out 22s after doing a short test flight with an instructor to make sure you fly ok. Cost varies between 300 and 350 an hour. Good luck with it and enjoy flying around Ireland.

[nouseforaname]

You would be a way better off going over to the US for a couple of weeks and getting your licence. Where about are you in Ireland? i'm in the SW....pm me i might be able to point you in the right direction. I'm in Florida right now got my helicopter check ride on Thursday.

TD

[Blade Sailin]

Jumpin across the pond for a quick fix is not always the answer if you intend to return to Ireland but it does have its benefits, maybe cheaper, although I don't know the going rate in the states but its an excellant experience for sure and most schools are probably well equipped with all the bells and whistles an ideal school/airport area should have!

If I could do it all again, I would do more flying in Ireland to get experience in Irish standard ops, airspace, navigational features, weather etc. before I headed out to the USA so that on return to Ireland it would be a much easier transition I would imagine as this kind of familiarization would certainly be required when you get back anyway, so better of doing it the initial stages of training and baseing your US training around that I'd say.

All the best

[nouseforaname]

That doesn't really make sense Blade....

If you go to Florida you will have much more experience in operations on airfields as they are much busier and not often tower controlled meaning an accurate procedure is essentail.

The weather in Florida (this time of year especially) will give our man here great experience. Keeping well clear of viscious thunderstorms etc.

You want to go ahead and get your ticket. Then fly with a experienced helicopter pilot back at home. The FAA route is far more practical for those who wish to own their own machine.

[Blade Sailin]

True enough and I did say 'its an excellant experience' but its a PPL (H) were talkin about for recreational purposes and I assume this chap will come back to live in Ireland and fly here, I spent some time in Florida, completed training out there and found some differences when I came home and thats really what I'm getting at, carrying out some training in Ireland at the moment in an airport which is as equally as busy as the airport I trained at in Florida, and to a certain extent, it is 'controlled', also it's probably has more commercial operations out of it aswell, providing as equal experience of such traffic! But accurate procedures in the airport I trained at was not essential or so it seemed:ugh: I was at a CAA school with the majority pilots operating under FAA regulations, not sure what they consist of but it sure is practicable. Am not sure whats not making sense either, the lad will be coming back after training in USA, first of all the climate over there is probably twice that of the ISA which, as you know, affects performance- human and machine we certainly wouldn't get such hot weather here, probably by average usually less than ISA although this summer season is the exception! The airport I trained in had all the luxuries a pilot could imagine i.e ground, tower, atis, unbeliavable weather data at the touch of a button, runway lighting, PAPIs, NDB,a rake of VORTACs in the area etc which are great for experience but as I was told by an instructor when I got home, I was spoilt making it alot easier. The weather this time of year I would consider to be quite dangerous to an inexperienced student and usually only catering for flight in the morning to early afternoon because of such aggressive thunderstorms. I loved the regular clear blue skies in the morning..if only we got them here more often instead of more marginal like ops!;) Ive learnt quite alot since I came back, even such little but important things as calling tower before engine start up which I never had to do in the US,RT is alot stricter here and how to collect Irish data for a pre flight even...anyway looking back, to be more aware of flying conditions in Ireland before training in such exceptional conditions offered the US is the only thing I would of changed about my training so that as a student returning to Ireland, I would of got the maximum benefit :ok:

[HillerBee]

I partly agree with Bladesailing. The USA is much more than only Florida. Florida is nice to get a license quickly, but doesn't prepare you for flying in Ireland. It will however only take a few hours to get used to Ireland (under instruction obviously) Getting training in a mountainess area is important though and I would suggest, if you go over to the US to go to say Oregon.
You'll still have to do a few hours of training in Ireland. However Ireland is one of the nicest and easiest countries in Europe to fly in. I fly a lot in Ireland and it's not complicated, neither busy and ATC is friendly.

[Blade Sailin]

100% Hillerbee!! Its an honest opinion Ive provided from my experience which I did not understand until I got back to Ireland myself but by absolute no means am I suggesting that training recieved is invalid, its just a case of getting used to the differences which I took under instruction and ideally if that could of been reversed i.e familiar with Irish conditions initially before commencing training in the USA and keeping that in mind during, flying here might of been that bit easier to transition to or more familiar even when arriving back on home turf;) All the best with your skills test nouseforaname!:ok:

[HillerBee]

Cpi2003 has already done 10 hours of training in Ireland, so he has an idea of what's going on.

[Blade Sailin]

...sure thats brilliant so, has it all sussed out...just thought I'd post positive criticism of my experience that may help anyone considering training, and how to make the most of it in my opinion. Good luck