American Pilots in UK/EU [Archive]

Itswindyout

23rd Jul 2006, 10:04

Is it just me, or am I seeing an increase in American Pilots being based in UK/EU.

I know of serveral operators who are employing Americans, (on N reg aircraft) in UK.

Has the law changed for the work permits, or have I missed something.

I was hoping to work in USA, but need a work permit, even for a few months, so why can Americans work here.?

Windy

effortless

23rd Jul 2006, 10:35

Now if you wanted to be extradited... werl, just goes to show ya dunnit?

flyboyike

23rd Jul 2006, 11:08

I was hoping to work in USA, but need a work permit, even for a few months, so why can Americans work here.?

Windy

Because we invented the airplane.;)

checklist69

23rd Jul 2006, 11:16

Because we invented the airplane.;)

Surely you mean aeroplane?

:)

'69

flyboyike

23rd Jul 2006, 11:17

Surely you mean aeroplane?

:)

'69

Don't be calling me Surely.

4HolerPoler

23rd Jul 2006, 14:20

Keep it nice please ladies; this one's always a hot potato.

4HP

LRdriver II

27th Jul 2006, 11:49

Maybe the increase in "off-shore" employment contracts that dont have to adhere to any employment laws anywhere nor give pilots ANY rights. Yet they are flying JAA aircraft under JAR OPS rules in companies based in the EU..

rduarte

27th Jul 2006, 12:25

Because we invented the airplane.;)

I don t think so,it was the french, with Clement Ader and his Eole who flew first in 1890.He did actually invent aviation (avion was the name of his third airplane or aeroplane :) :p )

RD

Treetopflyer

29th Jul 2006, 11:00

I don t think so,it was the french, with Clement Ader and his Eole who flew first in 1890.He did actually invent aviation (avion was the name of his third airplane or aeroplane :) :p )
RD

Yes Rduarte, I know... But we just have to let them believe they invented it... It's just part of the propaganda they get there, along with the WMDs in Iraq and the Freedom Fries... :}

Alright 4HP, I'm out of here....... :E :E :E

Daifly

29th Jul 2006, 15:01

The large number of EU pilots in corporate aviation who now get paid offshore makes it rather a level playing field I think.

I know what LRdriver II is saying, but at the same time, it's not like the companies are forcing these conditions onto the crew, the crew are rather forcing it onto the companies (it apparently being a sellers market at the moment). It does make for an interesting situation however when they then turn around and expect sick pay, maternity leave etc when they aren't paying anyone any tax. Whilst you can have your cake and eat it in some circumstances, I don't necessarily think you have have the cake knife as well...

(As for who did it first, well, I'd go for the French with the Aeroplane and the Yanks with the airplane - was that diplomatic enough...? Condi should take note!)

rduarte

30th Jul 2006, 10:21

We call AVIATION and not AIRPLANESHIP or AEROPLANESHIP. Is that diplomatic enough ? :ugh:

This mean the french invent "Aviation" (from the name of the third s Clement Ader s plane "Avion" ). :D

And after my maths, 1890 is always before 1903 !

flyboyike

30th Jul 2006, 13:27

rduarte

30th Jul 2006, 15:20

Did that Eole or whatever have an engine?

Yes ,a steam engine (20HP) . The plane flew about 50 m at 20 cm from the ground,in october the 9th, 1890

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4538/250pxavioniii20050711ys4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Eole

flyboyike

30th Jul 2006, 15:30

Yes ,a steam engine (20HP) . The plane flew about 50 m at 20 cm from the ground,in october the 9th, 1890

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4538/250pxavioniii20050711ys4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Eole

Kinda pretty, I must admit.

rduarte

30th Jul 2006, 15:53

:ok: :ok: :ok:

GLFSTMFIVE

30th Jul 2006, 20:48

I hear the GV N559gv based at luton and a uk owner is crewed by a septic who commutes from the US to fly it,i take it he must a have some sort of work permit unless you can do that sort of thing without one, not sure how that sort of thing works

DA50driver

1st Aug 2006, 19:02

Keep in mind that quite a few of the US pilots you talk about probably hold EU citizenship and can legally accept employment. I know because am one of them although I am an independent contractor and not an employee.
If you have seen me you have assumed I am from the US. I speak with a Midwestern accent and act and look pretty typical "American". I live in the US and commute to work in Europe, 2 weeks on 2 weeks off.
To the poster talking about maternity pay and such: A lot of us are independent contractors who pay for our own recurrent training, disability insurance, quarterly taxes and Social Security. (The SS I shouldn't have to pay since there will be none left by the time I retire anyway). Of course this is reflected in our daily rates, so by the time I give myself a paycheck it is about the same size as anyone else who flies comparable equipment. only bonus right now is that the Euro is so strong against the US$. Thank you to all the people that believe a budget deficit is bad!!
Save a horse, ride a cowboy.

Itswindyout

16th Aug 2006, 22:28

He is commuting to Luton from the USA, as were the co pilots, to operate this N reg aircraft for the UK owner, as a TAG FAB management contract, I understand that he was a contract TAG pilot as well, (hand that feeds you; springs to mind).
But I suspect that TAG will loose the contract to him.
He is a ex White House Staff Pilot, with the gift of the gab.

Not quite certain how the law stands in regard to cabotage, even as a private aircraft.

Windy

Itswindyout

16th Aug 2006, 22:37

The original post was aimed at specific persons, and certainly not at you, or any of your bretheren.
You do raise an interesting point, and that relates to the UK/EU SS contribution that "might" be deducted from your EU/UK salary, if you are being paid and thus employed by this corporate entity.

I work on a similar basis but paid in US$, so see the bad side of the currency rate, as my life is based on stg and euros.

However I suspect I would not be welcome in the US as a contract pilot.

What are your feelings.

Windy

mita

18th Aug 2006, 17:14

Hi ,malc4d , I am in exactly the same position as you .I´ve been trying and contacting employers in USA an there´s no way . They will not issue any work visas at all. To get a flying job in the states..the only way is to marry an american girl and obtaining a green card..

Bumz_Rush

18th Aug 2006, 21:21

but then we are all biased...... what can we do to protect our jobs.....

Bumz

mercuray

19th Aug 2006, 20:45

Yeap,you can go that route,and it does work.At this point in time,it takes 6 to 9 months from "Fileing" to "Working". Hints: Marry IN USA,(less complicated).
After the marriage,do not bust your 90 day Visa Waiver peroid.(That is a favouite pit fall).Once you return to EU,you will be well advised to stay out of USA until you get residency,green card etc.There is nothing in black and white to say that you cannot visit while your application is being processed,but US Immigration WILL have you on their computer system as "Application in process".They can,and do put you on the 1st. flight from whence you came.(i.e. dont make waves!).Lastly,dont foget the "prenup" !

mercuray

20th Aug 2006, 17:23

No,Not Me,but I know somebody that has just been through it.Not in aviation,but same deal.A "Genuine" relationship,and the decision was made to live and work over there for a few years anyway.
You can do it either way,of course.The reason many people do marry this side of the pond is because they do genuinely meet an american who is already in Europe,working or on vacation. After some research,my colleague was advised that "wheels" would turn faster if you marry a U.S. citizen in the USA.I guess that like any govt.dept.,they are quicker dealing with their own paperwork,(in this case the american marriage certificate),than one from a foreign country that has to be authenticated by that country's foreign office etc.
I see the logic.USA Embassy was very open and helpfull to the applicant.
Again,sign a prenup,or marry a rich one.(just my opinion!)

JediDude

21st Sep 2006, 03:01

F900EX

21st Sep 2006, 21:55

FYI - If you marry in the states it will take about 3 years. I have friends still waiting after 7 years !!! I seriously kid you not.

Marry in Europe and different story. It is processed at the local embassy and takes as little as 6 to 9 months. Might change though.

I have been married for 4 years and I am still waiting, all of my papers are in order. Its beyond a joke.

AND its is getting much worse !!!

USA is locking down its borders faster than you think.:=

mercuray

22nd Sep 2006, 08:46

I think that there is some element of confusion here.I am sure these horror stories are true,BUT one needs to check out the sequence of doing things.A non-pilot friend of mine,(with no specialist work qualifications), was up and running in well under 1 year.He spent $s on a US lawyer,(specialist),on EXACTLY what order,and what "state" in The US,to process the whole application,based on Marrying a US Citizen.The US Embassy in Europe were efficient,and helpful,(but not cheap!). If you don't want to marry ,forget it!
I am going to the states in nov.,I will ask him,and his american wife.

Kelly Hopper

22nd Sep 2006, 12:01

Well! I have heard and seen over the years what people will do to get on in this career but this thread which seems to condone marriage to a stranger in order to get a job????
How sad and desparate can you guys be?
The heartache and pain you can inflick on others by doing such a selfish thing, have you considered that?
The world is full of "users." Do you really want to be one aswell?:=

mercuray

22nd Sep 2006, 12:28

Well,my buddy had been going out with his fiancee for 7 years,so not really applicable in that case. I hear what you say,but are you and I not very lucky that We don't have to consider such measures? There is a real world out there,and it is not too perfect in just about every walk of life.I find your opinion somewhat pompeous and unrealistic in the year 2006. Good Luck to You guys,and I hope your efforts put You in the left seat of a GV.......eventually!

Mercuray

globallocal

22nd Sep 2006, 13:07

Hello people! Hate to start the fire again, but I am not a US citizen with no work permit (only a crew visa) but doing contract work for a US company (not mainland) paid in US dollars. They are trying to get me a work visa but so far it has taken 9 months. I have also got one of my compatriots a job as well and they are sponsoring his visa application too. Yes it is nice but no medical insurance, sick days, leave etc.
As to the marriage thing would you really want to?
If you have a look around and hard, there are US jobs out there

happy flying

Kelly Hopper

22nd Sep 2006, 14:16

Mercuray.
Well speaking from life's experience I can tell you that I am very far from being pompous as anyone who knows me would tell you, but I do have certain morals in life that others perhaps may not have.
Using people and lying to others as well as to yourself is not one of them, and never will be.
Anyone prepared to do such a thing has great sympathy from me; they must be very sad.
Oh, and by the way, P1, GV, done it, got the tee-shirt. Very nice but did it through years of hard work, sacrifice and determination. Not by deception and destroying others people's lives. There we differ.

mercuray

22nd Sep 2006, 15:19

Yeah,Yeah,whatever.(you may be surprised how such marriages can actually "benefit" 2 people,as oppossed to "ruin" anybody).I am not so convinced that you have the full set of T-Shirts yet.You certainly have a very valid point,but it is just that "A Point".I believe that you miss the bigger picture.Are you suggesting that these folk dont work hard? Got nothing to do with it.I suggest that they are having to work at it a lot harder than you or I ever did.We are all in a different situation in a world that becomes trickier by the day.(No big surprise there!) :ok:

hixton

22nd Sep 2006, 16:00

globallocal do you work as a pilot? Are you from the UK?
If so can you tell us how you found an employer in the first place? I thought that a job as a pilot would not qualify for a work visa.

F900EX

22nd Sep 2006, 17:17

Kelly Hopper

Frankly when you say "destroying others people's lives" well, I think thats a bit rich.

I met my wife in London and I didnt even know she had a US passport.

Fact is, if you are young and it is your desire to live or work in the USA then why not find the love of your life with a passport that creates some synergy ? You know it works both ways. Americans like to live in Europe also.

Not too complicated really.

globallocal

23rd Sep 2006, 10:43

yes pilot on a GLEX. no from Oz. Word of mouth, but they have been running adds on climbto350. We have a full compliment at the moment unless you are a Captain on the Global, don't need to be current!

nicholasblonde

2nd Oct 2006, 08:20

too bad we can't start a "multi-country cooperation" programme wherby we could all swap spouses, sisters, and divorced mothers--not in reality, but on paper--and solve our respective work permitting problems. sometimes individuals post shady advertisements for such things on craigslist sites in the EU and US.

I for one knew a Slovenian girl in the US who offered an American pilot marriage in return for the automatic spousal level flight benefits. He would in turn learn Slovenian and acquire, eventually, an EU passport. All it would have took (in the U.S.) was a quick trip to a city government office and a $15 marriage license fee. The U.S. also has very widely used pre-nuptial contracts (available online, in fact)...so you could essentially outline the terms of separation in advance to make sure she doesn't get your money.

Seriously...American girls (especially in the Midwest) will marry a strapping Brit in a millisecond.

I'll trade my American-born sister (citizen) for your Brit-born sister!!! She studies all the time at University anyways. Perhaps we could pull it off without the sister's ever knowing.

countbat

2nd Oct 2006, 11:47

DON'T MARRY AN AMERICAN WOMAN. You will need to have 3 jobs in the same time: a job as a 30 years senior Captain at United, a job as an well established lawyer, a job as a succesfull doctor. Working all three jobs in the same time will just keep you afloat for very very very little time. After the divorce you will need at least 3 more jobs for many, many years to pay for the period when you were married. Plus they are fat with a big attitude and the sex is not that great.

NuName

2nd Oct 2006, 15:22

Itswindyout

3rd Oct 2006, 15:43

An American (non EU, or JAA), FAA ATP, typed on a specific corporate jet, has been given by the UK CAA a validation on a UK registered aircraft.

Can I ask the FAA to do the same deal for me.

We both fly the same type, so you could say he has taken my potental employment.

windy

globallocal

3rd Oct 2006, 16:06

The world is flat and getting smaller by the day.
I heard a rumor that they are going to reduce the validation process for non JAA lic. Something will have to be done for the Asian giant is awakening and going to suck a lot of corporate pilots to the area when it does.

NuName

4th Oct 2006, 06:53

Reduce the validation process? That will be interesting. How will Europe protect its outrageous training costs then? After all, thats the only reason the validations are so tough anyway.:mad:

kd2473

4th Oct 2006, 12:42

Reduce in the sense of making it easier to get the validation in the first place, or making it last longer than a year? Interesting ... very interesting!

Margarita

4th Oct 2006, 14:53

An American (non EU, or JAA), FAA ATP, typed on a specific corporate jet, has been given by the UK CAA a validation on a UK registered aircraft.
Can I ask the FAA to do the same deal for me.
We both fly the same type, so you could say he has taken my potental employment.
windy

FAA will validate ICAO licenses, as exanple a block validations for operator of FAA registrated airplane.

Itswindyout

4th Oct 2006, 15:54

I had an interesting discussion with an FAA person, I hope I repeat it correctly.

A JAR type rated person, can get a FAA validation for one year, if they apply, (using suitable application form), and visit a FAA field office. The FAA will also confirm with the JAR (CAA), and confirm licence and type rating, and I assume currency.

Then the FAA will issue after a period of time the relevent FAA validation.

Hope this assists me in my original post....

Windy

mercuray

4th Oct 2006, 15:54

I am now confused. I have free standing JAR ATPL and FAA ATP(multi-engine,land.No Ratings,just SIC on Excel).
However,on JAA ATPL,I am current;type-rated,(P1),+ 300 hours Command Time on Excel.
Question?
Do I need to do the FAA Upgrade,(Oral & Check-Ride),in order to have Excel Type-Rating put on my FAA ATP? I think that I do,but if anybody knows differently,pls.sing out. Thanks.

Margarita

4th Oct 2006, 23:27

I had an interesting discussion with an FAA person, I hope I repeat it correctly.
A JAR type rated person, can get a FAA validation for one year, if they apply, (using suitable application form), and visit a FAA field office. The FAA will also confirm with the JAR (CAA), and confirm licence and type rating, and I assume currency.
Then the FAA will issue after a period of time the relevent FAA validation.
Hope this assists me in my original post....
Windy

yes, you got it right. So it works both ways...

Itswindyout

5th Oct 2006, 06:25

As I understood the information, you can not use a current JAA ATP type LPC to "update" an expired 61.58 on the same type.
Your question re SIC, was not one I asked, but I suspect that as you have a FAA TR on the Excel, they will not give you a 12 mth validation as PIC, based on your JAA.

But I stand to be corrected.

I hope this does not confuse you more...The answer is to phone the FISDO that you might be covered by when or if you decide to upgrade your FAA from SIC to PIC.... But they might know either....

Windy

mercuray

5th Oct 2006, 08:02

Windy,Thanks.
I think that I will just go and do FAA Upgrade.4 days & good price to the boss.(Just trying to avoid another slog across the pond!)

globallocal

6th Oct 2006, 02:18

Windy you are correct. They will not issue a type from previous exp. You have to do a type rating/ recurrent depends on how many hours total or last 12 months. Trust me I have been there.

hope it helps to the discussion.

mercuray

6th Oct 2006, 08:25

Globalcal. Thanks. I need to do some shopping etc.at Uncle Sam's,so I will just play their games,(cos that is what it is!).Politics & Money.

globallocal

16th Nov 2006, 03:47

Just thought I would let you guys now, got my US work visa last week, it only took 9 months, so it's all possible. next the GREEN CARD!!!!

ericthepilot

16th Nov 2006, 18:48

Got married, worked two jobs, flying C402's and waiting tables. Got a Lear job SIC, next was Challenger.
Then the Divorce.
Pay the Lady, keep the Green card, keep on flying.
Now Gulfstream 5 PIC and happily ever after, single again with room to play. The American Dream come true !!

:D