'Bog' standard Ryanair

[worldwidewolly]

Sunday Independent: July 23rd 2006

Basic hygiene takes a wee holiday on Ryanair flight

LARISSA NOLAN

RYANAIR may have a reputation for being bog-standard, but even regular passengers on the low-fares airline expect to be provided with toiletpaper.

The basic provision of loo roll was too much to ask, however, on a Ryanair flight from Spain to Dublin earlier this month.

Passengers on board the 10.15pm flight from the holiday resort of Malaga in Spain on July 9 were astonished when cabin crew announced that there was no toilet roll in any of the bathroom cubicles.

The flight was packed with holiday-makers - including many small children - who had to endure the three-hour journey without standardtoiletries.

One passenger said: "The air steward was making the usual announcements about food and drink beingavailable for purchase and just at the end, she abruptly added at the end of theannouncement: 'And there is no toilet roll on this flight.'

"We thought we had heard incorrectly until one of the kids wanted to use the bathroom and we found out for ourselves.

"There was no soap either, for that matter.

"I was angry because I felt that having paid for the flight, the least you can expect is to be able to use the toilets and be provided with the the basic products to do so hygienically."

Colin Bird of the Office of Consumer Affairs said it was the first time he had heard of such a situation.

"This is a new one on me - and we receive all kinds of complaints about service. But it would strike me as a failure in the company's obligation to provide a service.

"I would imagine that anyone who felt aggrieved by this could approach the Small Claims Court with a view to looking at their case."

Curiously, Ryanair management insisted the company had "no record" of the lavatory malfunction, despite it being a big talking point amongst all those on board the flight.

Pauline McAlester, spokesperson for Ryanair: "We have no record of this whatsoever, but we are looking into it," she said, insisting that Ryanair "operates to the highest standard of service."

She emphasised that the toilet roll budget has not been removed as a cost-cutting measure by the company, which is headed up by Michael O'Leary.

"We would like to let passengers know that there will continue to be toilet paper on Ryanair flights; we have not discontinued providing it in the planes' toilets."

It's not the first time the airline has been accused of cutting corners.

It was criticised recently for limiting the number of disabled passengers to a maximum of four on each individual flight.

In 2004, the company charged a passenger €24 for the use of a wheelchair at Stansted airport in London. The disabled man was later awarded £1,300 sterling in damages and Ryanair introduced a 73cent levy to all passengers to meet the cost of wheelchair supply.

Michael O'Leary also hit the headlines when he described stationery as "the biggest waste of money ever" and advised employees to steal pens from hotels to save on the cost of buying them.

All flights have a luggage limit of 32kg per person and all goods heavier on that must be paid for in excess baggage.

[Dream Buster]

The next logical step, based on previous low cost money saving schemes, is to charge for loo paper; how much per sheet?

I'm not joking either.

:eek:

[Off Stand]

Paperless airline???

[B737NG]

I learned paperless Cockpit in the past, but paperless Airline is new to me. In this job you learn until you retire.......

When do people recognize that everything has a price and you pay for it at the end of the day. I had a smile in the face when I was reading the posting that MOL and his Knights are still able to find people who use them to fly and contribute into the ridicolous ripp off. Do not get it wrong, I am sorry for the inconventient situation they where trapped into during that journey, especially traveling with small children needs a attention and care. Something they will miss for shure. But booking a flight for the holiday in time makes no big diffrence when you compare what service you get somewhere else for not more money to spend but a better value.

The LCC coming low on a lot of things: No frills is fine to a certain extend. At the other side it is up to the customer to decide where he has his personal border and says for his own sake: I dont accept that anymore I use XY instead of EZ,FR or any other no frill to get him thrilled. MOL has had a huge impact within the European Airlines to revise the cost sheme. He teached them a lesson that they had to offer competitive fares as well. If you book a BA, AF, KL, LH, AZ or any other major carrier today in advance then you get a reasonable rate and the infrastruture you need if the flight is delayed, diverted or just you had a small mishap during the flight. The FA`s there make no diffrence when you aboard and ask them for a towel, napkin or any other small amenity you may need during your travel. Customer care has often just the diffrence between the carrier you chose. Dont blame them when they ripp you off, llok into the mirror and ask what lesson have you learned out of it. Take another Airline who does not only make promises, take one who keeps them when it is needed.

In the meantime let the people know what you was going thru and good luck if you ask for compensation. The legal track doesn`t support your budget, only the lawyers one.....

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[BEagle]

Years ago I was advised by a venerable old captain always to have a quick look round the passenger 'facilities' before the pax boarded. "They'll forget about your landing, but they won't forget there being no soap or paper in the loo!", he said........

Hmmm - seems you were right, 'Tubby'!

Why didn't someone check before the flight - and ask for some hygiene products to be brought out to the aircraft?

[Mercenary Pilot]

Gives a new meaning to "a sh1tty service" ;)

[Oh that's super!]

That might give a new meaning to 'paperless ticket' - if you have a paperless ticket, you won't get any paper.

[keel beam]

"Ryanair "operates to the highest standard of service.""

Well, as the standard seems to be zero, that is easy to achieve.

[BRUpax]

Ryanair is an absolute joke; an insult to the airline industry. They disgust me. They will however continue to succeed simply because the majority of their passengers have no standards either! I don't, and never will, fly Ryanair - unless they change their ways of course.

[apaddyinuk]

Why dont they just install those pay toilet things which you find on city streets...seems to make sense to me!!! :E

[WHBM]

This is the normal FR standard, if anything is going to impinge on an OT departure they just go without it.

A while ago with them it was announced that there was no food or drink on this flight. I asked why not and was told "they just left it off the aircraft at Stansted". When I enquired if a more professional approach had been taken with the fuel I got a frosty glare :)

[kissthepilot]

Does anyone know if the strange practices at Ryanair started when Mr O'Leary took over in 94', or did it start before that? I was wondering if the way employees, and passengers, are treated is due to his leadership, or is that the way the Ryan's wanted it? Also, does anyone have any information on what kind of a leader Delcan Ryan is?

Thanks for the assistance.

[BORN4THESKYS]

Hi

I understand the plight of anyone who has travelled with Ryanair, it is simply the worst airline I have ever travelled with!! Hearing anything like there being no bog paper is no surprise, that is why it makes so much money, it does not take an economics degree to work this out people. If you travel with, or work for this airline then expect to be treated like dirt, you are simply a number, sorry but thats how it is!

Lets face it, you only have to look at the faces of the staff and pilots to see how miserable they are, not to mention the passengers. But then the chavs in our liberal society never have been the most friendly of people, but then this is a cheap airline for cheap people, with low expectations of the service they expect to receive, and probably low expectations of themselves as well.

I always wanted to know how cattle felt when they travel in those lorrys to the slaughter house, now I know!!!!

Yes I'm bitter and twisted, but its true. I await your angry responses, and Ryanair defenders to slaughter me for my comments!!!!!!!!!!

[The Real Slim Shady]

I understand the plight of anyone who has travelled with Ryanair, it is simply the worst airline I have ever travelled with!! Hearing anything like there being no bog paper is no surprise, that is why it makes so much money, it does not take an economics degree to work this out people. If you travel with, or work for this airline then expect to be treated like dirt, you are simply a number, sorry but thats how it is!

Lets face it, you only have to look at the faces of the staff and pilots to see how miserable they are, not to mention the passengers. But then the chavs in our liberal society never have been the most friendly of people, but then this is a cheap airline for cheap people, with low expectations of the service they expect to receive, and probably low expectations of themselves as well.

I always wanted to know how cattle felt when they travel in those lorrys to the slaughter house, now I know!!!!

Yes I'm bitter and twisted, but its true. I await your angry responses, and Ryanair defenders to slaughter me for my comments!!!!!!!!!!


Oh dear, cheap tickets, on time service, modern aircraft.........no bog paper??
I went to Rome last week: £75 return. On time. Read my book, had a glass of wine. No worries.
Got off. Came home 3 days later.On time.

[Hirsutesme]

It is a highly successful airline. It scr@ws it's staff, it scr@ws it's customers, it scr@ws it's competitors. Whilst staff and customers accept being scr@wed, for the first, to fly, and for the second, to travel cheaply, then Ryanair will continue to succeed. The competitors dont fight back, they imitate, driving down everyomes standards (and wages).
However, I dont believe, for a long list of reasons, that this will actually continue for much longer.

[BORN4THESKYS]

Hello

While on the obligatory subject of Ryanair, I just thought of something else which the Nazi managers should think about! I know this is a contentious thought but shall bring it into context anyway, opinions whether positive or negative more than welcome.

Since the railways were split into regions and made private, and with the introduction of the Human Rights Act, a few things have changed. Without sufficient working toilets and yes toilet paper in the toilets, they have to be closed. If there are not any working toilets on the trains they are usually taken out of service, and for good reason! I am no liberal minded lunatic, but I do think going to the toilet and having the required necessities, i.e bog paper, to wipe my backside is not a privilege but a basic Human Right, agree or disagree?

These days, train operators and the like, to include coach operators, can and do get sued for consistently not providing something so basic as toilet paper. Luckily for me because I am still young and healthy, or so I think, I can still retain moderate control of my bowels and bladder, but what about the elderly or young?

Im sorry for bleating on about what might seem like a trivial matter to some, but in this day and age people need to be held to account for failing to provide basic facilities on board a plane. I also would like to say people and not an individual, as I believe more in collective responsibility rather than individual the majority of the time, with a few exceptions of course.

To all of you who have had a good service with this company, Im pleased for you. But the vast majority of the time all I hear is copious amounts of complaints from friends and family who have received nothing but a poor service from this money grabbing airline!!!!! I am not expecting the level of service I would get from hiring out a private leer jet, no no, simply to get treated with the dignity and respect every human deserves, and not get treated and spoken like a sack of s**t.

Sooner rather than later, passengers and crew are going to wake up, lets make it sooner rather than later please.

Regards :)

[slim_slag]

but then this is a cheap airline for cheap people ..... and probably low expectations of themselves as well.They will however continue to succeed simply because the majority of their passengers have no standards either!Oh my, that's not nice things to say about millions of people. I bet you the percentage of ABs on FR flights is higher than in the general population, and his airline has made it possible for decent hardworking people who don't earn much money to afford to go somewhere different on holiday.
I tell you something, if I saw O'Leary in a pub I'd go up and buy him a pint. He has done more for us passengers than all the rest of the legacy airline chief executives put together.

[WHBM]

Since the railways were split into regions and made private, and with the introduction of the Human Rights Act, a few things have changed. Without sufficient working toilets and yes toilet paper in the toilets, they have to be closed. If there are not any working toilets on the trains they are usually taken out of service
You are not quite right here, the requirement on the trains relates only to the DISABLED toilet (which takes the space on current trains of about 15 seats), which has to be in working order when the train starts its journey. If not the train has to be cancelled. This is despite the fact that there are other (non-disabled access) toilets in the train which are serviceable.

So 300 able-bodied passengers are late for work or miss their plane flight because of the necessity to comply with the Disability Discrimination Act by having a serviceable disabled toilet that, as any train crew member will tell you, is hardly ever used by the disabled anyway.

It's a great example of bureaucracy first, because when the train is cancelled there is of course nowhere else for any disabled passengers to use while waiting an hour or two for the next one. The regulations only apply to the train.

[BORN4THESKYS]

You are not quite right here, the requirement on the trains relates only to the DISABLED toilet (which takes the space on current trains of about 15 seats), which has to be in working order when the train starts its journey. If not the train has to be cancelled. This is despite the fact that there are other (non-disabled access) toilets in the train which are serviceable.
So 300 able-bodied passengers are late for work or miss their plane flight because of the necessity to comply with the Disability Discrimination Act by having a serviceable disabled toilet that, as any train crew member will tell you, is hardly ever used by the disabled anyway.
It's a great example of bureaucracy first, because when the train is cancelled there is of course nowhere else for any disabled passengers to use while waiting an hour or two for the next one. The regulations only apply to the train.

Fair comments, I stand corrected on a couple of points! I can certainly accept without hesitation that people are independently minded enough to make their own rational decision as to which airline they choose to travel with. My main issue of concern was going to be crew fatigue before I got obsessed with Ryanair.

With cheap budget airlines selling tickets at such low prices, it has been neccessary to push crews to working up to the legal limit every month of their allocated flying hours. Yes it can be great for the new guy or girl who gets their first job, plenty of jet hours, loads of different sectors to be flown, plenty of take of and landings, but at what cost? These low budget airlines make the profit they do as everyone knows by fitting in as many flights as possible in the crews working day, and having a very short turnaround time, and then its a case of get back in the air as quickly as possible! Yes cheap tickets are great for the consumer, but what about the crew, and their physical and even mental health. I know and realise that stress is something that is associated with every job, to a high degree in aviation, because of shifts, flying through different time zones etc etc. It may be me, please point out if it is, but stress with flight crew seems to be at an all time high amongst low budget airlines for the reasons stated above, and for crews than ever are complaining of severe fatigue. With the airline industry expanding so fast, and the skies being occupied by more aircraft than ever, should not the safety and interest of passengers and crew take precedence over corporate financial gain?

[10secondsurvey]

I know slim_slag regularly tells us about what a jolly good chap MOL is, and how he would buy him a pint, and so on....(yawn!). But aside from this kind of nonsense, I just cannot believe that intelligent people actually pay good money to fly with Ryanair. It really beggars belief that people have been hoodwinked into believing that MOL is a 'man for the people' fighting for your rights to a cheap flight. What utter tosh.

see this thread; http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=234377

As for Ryanair being some kind of pioneer in cheap flights, it just isn't so. Southwest got there long ago (35 long years ago, in fact) , and all the staff at Southwest take great pride in their standards of service.

Ryanair was kicking around for years doing nothing much before Easyjet, but it wasn't until Easy showed Ryanair how to do things right, that Ryanair started to get more successful.

[PAXboy]

On a forthcoming trip to Berlin - where my fare is to be paid by others - I suggested Air Berlin from Stanstead even though it is an awkward drive to get there and no direct train service. My hosts suggested to go Out on AB and Back on Ryan, in order to get the best blend of schedules and cost for themselves. I agreed the total cost of the fares.

When I booked, I booked with BA from LHR. There is a slight increase in cost for me and I shall gladly pay that from my own pocket - even though it will come out of my fee for the trip. Had they agreed to AB on both sectors, then I would have used them but I will not go on FR.

Yes, I know that BA has it's own problems (Glasgow maintenance thread etc.) as they chase down the dark alleyway trying to catch the shadowy figure of MoL, but I would rather have problems with BA than with FR.

[slim_slag]

I just cannot believe that intelligent people actually pay good money to fly with RyanairHere we go again, putting down people who choose to spend their own money how they want. Plenty of clever people choose to fly FR and their is no need to insult their intelligence for doing so.

[Skyflier]

Oh dear, cheap tickets, on time service, modern aircraft.........no bog paper??
I went to Rome last week: £75 return. On time. Read my book, had a glass of wine. No worries.
Got off. Came home 3 days later.On time.

I went the week before, £72 return - stayed four days midweek, on time, read a newspaper that was provided, had several glasses of wine, two coffees, a sandwich and a cake each way - on AZ, LHR-FCO.

[bealine]

Plenty of clever people choose to fly FR and their is no need to insult their intelligence for doing so.

I would argue that point!

There have been so many reported incidents where Ryanair has compromised safety that "clever" people avoid Ryanair with the proverbial 24 foot bargepole!

[slim_slag]

What, reports like you read on anonymous bulletin boards which appear to be from pissed off employees who think they aren't paid enough? Come on. Channel 4 recently tried to find juicy stuff on Ryanair and came up with nothing, you should have called them with your tips, it would have made the programme at least half interesting. The reports you need to take notice of come from organisations like the NTSB or the AAIB. There have recently been some very critical ones come out of the latter. Pots and Kettles .......

[bealine]

I assure you, slim slag, these reports have nothing to do with bulletin boards and everything to do with the CAA!

There have been numerous occasions when the CAA has issued warnings to Ryanair over its scant regard for aviation safety. (Unfortunately, because FR is Irish registered, the CAA only has limited powers, and nothing so far has been serious enough to ground them.)

One of the most serious instances involved Ryanair pilots regularly crying wolf over falsely declaring "low fuel" warnings in order to jump the queue for landing, putting other aircraft and passengers at risk.

Indeed, slim slag, you either have a short memory or selective memory when it comes to the Channel 4 documentary - there were heaps of safety breaches, including fatigued crews flying (when at a legacy carrier they would legitimately have stood down from flying duty). However, none so serious as to warrant grounding!

The success of Ryanair has nothing to do with O'Leary's business acumen, but everything to do with Osama Bin Laden and bringing the legacy carriers to their knees after 09/11!

I hope I am wrong, but most of us at the "legacy" carriers feel the same way - Ryanair is not a safe or secure airline.

[Rwy in Sight]

A couple of issues bealine here. I remember an CEO or something similar of a loco to state that one accident would put them straight out of business and it was their interest not to have one - far more than an established carrier. Having said that I understand that small stuff (slightly tired crews and jumping a queu (sp?) would /might lead to a major issue.

About the thread could the lack of toilet paper might be a cost cut idea as not to have to empty the toilets so often?

Rwy in Sight

[bealine]

Rwy in Sight - I concede that it is not in the interests of the LoCos to have any major incidents. Equally, there is a major difference between cutting and controlling costs, which EasyJet, SouthWest, Air SouthWest etc do and cutting safety margins which Ryanair frequently attempts to do! (Including, at the moment, trying to persuade Boeing to reduce the 737 maintainance recommendations!)

I wouldn't have thought RYR could cut the toilet emptying service any more than they have already! The "honey wagon" is only called out when absolutely necessary as it is - and it won't be pressed into service at all if O'Leary gets his 25 minute turnarounds!

[Rwy in Sight]

Bealine thank you for your input.


Isn't there a cost associated with carrying a day's worth of sewage around instead of emptying after 2 or 4 sectors when the a/c returns to its base?

Rwy in Sight

[PAXboy]

Rwy in Sight... of a loco to state that one accident would put them straight out of business and it was their interest not to have one.Indeed that is so, no one sets out to have a prang - but prangs do occur. I think it is correct that, in the early days of a carrier, then a prang would finish them - but RYR is now big enough that they could easily survive a prang, even a hull loss with all on board. Their 'cheap' fares and the law of averages will keep them in business even after that happens.

[slim_slag]

Oh bealine, you do like sailing close to the wind. I don't believe you for a minute. But even if Ryanair do what you claim, I bet the pilots know exactly how much usable fuel they have on board when they ask ATC for priority handling. Pots and kettles?

[bealine]

Safety Investigation at Ryanair

15 February 2006

The French government is reported as saying that it would consult with civil-aviation authorities in Ireland and the United Kingdom over allegations made in a television documentary that Irish airline Ryanair Holdings PLC has been lax in respecting safety rules.

The Transport Minister said he asked the French civil-aviation authority DGAC to get in touch with its Irish and U.K. counterparts on the matter.

The documentary alleged Ryanair has been guilty of lapses in safety standards and that its staff is overworked and undertrained. Ryanair has rejected the allegations.

Source: The Wall Street Journal, 15 February 2006

Investigations are continuing

[CARR30]

Perben asked the DGAC to follow up on the Channel 4 documentary 7 months ago "d'avoir un échange de vues rapide avec les autorités irlandaises et britanniques de l'aviation civile sur la prise en compte par cette compagnie (i.e. FR) des normes de sécurité".
Given the weakness of the Channel 4 case and the minister's request for 'vues rapide', I think we can assume that "investigations are continuing" - not

[blueplume]

As brupax said, most passengers seem to turn into animals as soon as they set foot on an aircraft. Doesn't matter wheteher they paid tuppence-haypenny or £100 to fly, they treat the a/c and staff like ****. We all know that seat-back pockets are actually provided to hold information cards and puke bags, not mountains of crap the pax produce. I have had passengers hand me full puke bags demanding that I take them. I told them what they could do with it and to grow up. Pax behave like children because they think that they don't need their brain anymore because the crew will do all the thinking for them and keep them safe and warm and fed. Like babies really. Amazing what people ask for and expect. They forget that they pay to be transported from A-B out of the wind, the rest is provided out of common courtesy and a requirement for a certain amount of crowd control.

[10secondsurvey]

Blueplume

I'm thinking you didn't mean to post this here? Maybe in Cabin crew/Jetblast?

But anyway, as you have posted, do let us know which airline you work for, so we can all avoid it.

[Avman]

Hopefully blueplume works for RYR. He/She and the idiots that fly RYR fully deserve each other!!! :ok:

Edited to insert blueplume iso of 10secondsurvey

[CARR30]

Avman
Why accuse '10secondsurvey' of being deserving of the company of 'idiots', just for pointing out that 'blueplume' may have been posting on the wrong forum?
Not only that, but surely all 35 million of last year's RYR passengers can't all have been idiots.
This is becoming unnecessarily rude.

[Avman]

My full apologies to 10secondsurvey. In my haste I used the wrong name. My "rude" remark was intended for blueplume! Let me quantify why I think people flying RYR are idiots. It's because I firmly believe that by supporting RYR they're not contributing to cheaper air travel, but they are contributing to bringing a once proud and professional industry to it's knees and eliminating the enjoyment of air travel. If I wanted to travel by bus at bus prices, I'd get a bus - not want to fly in one! Mrs Avman is a former FA and she provided a service, including taking barf bags off sick pax.

[Globaliser]

They forget that they pay to be transported from A-B out of the wind, the rest is provided out of common courtesy and a requirement for a certain amount of crowd control.Yes, blueplume, please do tell us which airline you work for.

The airlines that I choose to fly on provide cabin crew services (including removal of used sick bags) as part of their promised product, not out of the mere courtesy of those they employ.

[CARR30]

So there we have it. Not only are the millions of RYR passengers 'idiots', they turn out to be as gormless as the the millions of paupers who use busses.
How we all long for the glory days of the national flag carriers, when oiks simply couldn't afford to get airside.
I'm sure we'll all be a lot happier when the great unwashed get back on their bikes. :D

[Avman]

:) I guess you must be one of those 35 million then Carr30!

In your haste to defend RYR you are now twisting what I'm saying. I'm refering to RYR and the way they treat their pax like cattle. I've nothing against low cost carriers and low fares for all. I believe, however, that it can be done whilst still providing a service to the customer as do, for example, Air Berlin, Jetblue, and Flybe. If, however, the public is willing to accept the undignified levels of trash RYR offer in the name of low cost, I'm frankly worried about the future of air travel. Perhaps I'll take the bus instead!

[TightSlot]

Are we actually going anywhere with this thread folks?

[CARR30]

It's going to the place where so many of these threads expire, in the la-la land of mindless FR-bashing.
If they are really that bad then the market will take care of them. It's not as if O'Leary resorts to "extraordinary rendition" to get the bums on the seats.

[Avman]

My answer, taken from someone else's post in another thread:

With the information screen showing us as "Boarding", we stood for 90 minutes with no aircraft in sight...then when the aircraft was finally available, any queueing procedures were totally ignored by both staff and passengers, and a free-for-all ensued. And no information at all about the delay.

Coming back from Salzburg, the same story. Only this time, there was no effort to group passengers at all. Two gates used to get us to the aircraft and another cattle battle.

And once on the two flights, we had to contend with stewardesses who barely spoke English, and who really didn't want to be there at all.

And these flights weren't cheap...over £300 for two people.

In future, I will do anything I can to avoid Ryanair and Dublin. Easyjet from Belfast is a far more comfortable experience.

Rant over...but you have been warned!

Ryanair and the appaling service they provide deserves to get bashed. This is a public forum, not a management propaganda medium.

[Globaliser]

Are we actually going anywhere with this thread folks?None of these threads will ever go anywhere.

The reality is that FR does what it does, which is (to put it neutrally) to some people's taste and not to others. Some people don't like the downsides, and say so. Other people don't like the downsides being pointed out. And for some reason, the two camps appear to be as irreconcilable as the worst type of religious conflict.

[blueplume]

Dear everyone,

I take it all in good heart and, though it may surprise or annoy some of the contributors, I am not in the least offended. My comments were aimed at the few who really do make the job unpleasant for crews, flt deck as well as cabin. And if you want to avoid my company, go ahead. I respect your choices. We operate smaller a/c without FA where the pilots have to do it all and there is a limit to what one is prepared to put up with when people lose the plot. I am well aware that people will come back if they're made to feel good but the reception gets a little frosty when the most basic of manners are forgotten.

And please let's keep it more polite. It's too easy for all of us to hide behind aliases and trade insults. Fun though it is the attraction soon wears off.

Have a nice day.

[10secondsurvey]

Hey Blueplume,

Quote "...most passengers seem to turn into animals as soon as they set foot on an aircraft."

Bit of a generalisation don't you think?

But now you tell us your comments were aimed at the FEW who make life unpleasant for staff. Hmmm...

My comments were not meant to offend (I don't think they did), but the attitude you described yourself to have towards paying cutomers is bizarre. I just want to make sure I don't set foot on an airline with staff who have as poor (that's what it is) an attitude as you clearly are very proud to have.

For the same reason I do not fly Ryanair.

On another matter, it is irrelevant how small your airline is, as I have flown with small carriers in the USA where the pilot does 'everything', and they were extremely professional and polite.

Dealing with the public is the same in all service industries, aviation is not unique, it is how the issues are handled (or not) that marks out a good service provider.


Following your first post, I hardly think you are in any position to lecture others about the need to "keep it more polite".

[CARR30]

What I find annoying is that at least 2 contributors to this forum are slagging off FR while at the same time boasting that they never fly with them. All we get is cut 'n' paste friend-of-a-friend hearsay and bullsh*t advice to consider airlines whose routes go nowhere near where I want to go.

For my part I've been to the Languedoc dozens of times with FR from Stansted, with no complaints. Maybe I've been lucky and maybe I'm guilty of favourably comparing the FR experience to the abysmal standards of One railway. However. I can only speak as a I find and there are millions of us who repeatedly find FR's service satisfactory.

It's too bad that it's not posh enough for the rest but they are quite free to do the other thing and impress us with their own stories of the 'free' Daily Mail, 2 coffees and a club sandwich.

[Final 3 Greens]

Well for the sake of showing that there are some people in the middle, I feel quite indifferent to Ryanair and seldom use them, although the world doesn't end if I have to.

When I have used them (probably about 30 times since 1998) the service has worked as advertised.

I don't particularly mind or like their service, I don't particularly like the way they do business, but on the other hand there are many companies in many walks of life that I could say the same about.

And their terms and conditions are clear and unequivocal.

However, I find easyJet (since making their t&cs more friendly) and Air Berlin to be companies that I really like to use in the low cost sector.

[Globaliser]

What I find annoying is that at least 2 contributors to this forum are slagging off FR while at the same time boasting that they never fly with them. All we get is cut 'n' paste friend-of-a-friend hearsay and bullsh*t advice to consider airlines whose routes go nowhere near where I want to go.Is it necessary for one to have flown FR to know that one does not like what FR publicly promise? (Or is the right word "threaten"?) Is it necessarily la-la land to say that one would not put up with that? Is it necessarily snobbery to say that one is looking for a better overall travel experience? And is it always mindless bashing to say that one does not wish to go where FR wants to go when it's a long way away from one's actual destination?

[10secondsurvey]

Carr30,

I choose not to fly with Ryanair for many reasons, most of which have been highlighted on this very board over the past few years. It isn't mindless Ryanair bashing either, in fact ryanair seem to be able to do that publicly themselves. If you haven't read the thread

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=234377

I cited in an earlier post I suggest you do, as it highlights how senior management at Ryanair was recently found to be lying under oath in court. I have little time for companies of any industry who behave in this way. There are many many other documented instances of shoddy behaviour, and I value my life, so choose not to fly with them.

It is nothing to do with class, a subject you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about.

[CARR30]

I do think it is absolutely necessary to speak from personal experience when criticising a company's product. We can all trawl the press and blogs cuttin' 'n' a pastin' stories about how airline this and company that have failed a customer's expectations.
I appreciate that 10secondsurvey values his life, but who has died? If you've justified concerns about safety then why not register them with the authorities, or are they just stories you've heard from friends of friends?
I can only repeat that I've used Ryanair dozens of times and they've been OK and their destinations are ideal for me. If this changes then maybe I'll look to SNCF as an alternative. Meanwhile I honestly can't see the point of complaining about a company you never use and never have to use.

[Final 3 Greens]

I do think it is absolutely necessary to speak from personal experience when criticising a company's product.

Nonsense.

[slim_slag]

Well, I think it's wrong to judge an airline even on a single trip, never mind judge it by what you read on the internet. Most airlines treat the passenger like unwanted trash on occasion and it would be foolish to refuse to fly them again because of one bad experience, most of them just do what it says on the box, which isn't much more than get you there.

But this thread is a bit different from judging an airline. Most of the abuse on this thread is actually directed at the passengers and not the airline, and the abuse appears to come from airline employees. One wonders why I should pay the wages of people who think I am a total idiot who has no self respect, and all because I choose to spend my money how I see fit. Fortunately the vast majority of airline employees, IMO, would like to do a better job for the punter but the airline will not let them. The rest should find another job.

[10secondsurvey]

Carr 30

Quote "I appreciate that 10secondsurvey values his life, but who has died?"

So someone has to die first then?

My opinion is not based on friends or rumour, but repeated reports in both television, Newspapers and official court reports (they can't all be wrong) regarding the way in which Ryanair behave. I have also seen interviews with MOL himself, where he displays nothing but contempt for his passengers and regulatory authorities in a very cavalier way. I therefore choose not to use the services of such an airline, just like I would choose not to use a plumber or decorator or any other service company, where the person in overall charge had such an attitude, and expressed it repeatedly in public.

It's called freedom of choice, and if I choose not to fly with an airline because I don't like the colour of it's seats or for any other whimsical reason, it is my choice, and I don't need to justify it to anyone, and especially not to Ryanair employees.

A simple fact of service industries is that invariably potential clients will often assess your suitability on everything but the service you provide.

Let me give you an example, would you put you life savings in a Bank that operated from a tin garden shed in a railway siding? would you even consider it? probably not, BUT you have no idea if they have the best operations and security of any bank in the world or not. Even if they said they did would you believe them? It's like a drunk lying in the street telling you they are professor of Medicine in a Medical School. Very hard to believe or to put it another way, lacking credibility.

So for a person to decide against an airline even if they had not flown with it, is perfectly legitimate, and exactly fits with the way in which most people decide on service providers. This is a fundamental aspect of most businesses who provide a service, not just aviation. It may seem unfair to you, but that unfortunately is reality.

Perhaps this discussion would not be needed if Ryanair made the slightest effort to enhance it's reputation, as most other airlines do - but I don't think that fits with the MOL business mantra.

[SXB]

I flew with RYR a few times from Baden-Baden (which they refer to as Karlsruhe-Baden) and SXB, I didn't find the staff to be rude or even incompetent. What I didn't like is simply the way they run their operation, the way they pay some of their staff peanuts and the way they acted when my final flight with them was delayed. Therefore I have exercised my right as a consumer not to use them, I now choose to use other airlines which cost me more money but I believe, and this is borne out from experience, that I'm buying a superior product.

Like most things in life you get what you pay for.

[Globaliser]

I do think it is absolutely necessary to speak from personal experience when criticising a company's product.I disagree. There are certain things that one should only write about from experience, but much of a company's product is a matter of public knowledge, put up front as its proposition to you.

I therefore think I'm entitled to say that I can see that, and I don't like it.

You're perfectly entitled to disagree with me, or to take the view that it works for you, or that it's good value for money despite the faults that we both agree with. But if you include that in your description of la-la land FR bashing, that is going too far.

[blueplume]

10sec.

I'm in a very good position to ask others to keep it polite as I don't seem to have been rude to any contributor to this thread. This forum is for all opinions, not only yours.

Again, have a nice day because I am.

[10secondsurvey]

Blueplume
Considering you are posting to a forum for Passengers and SLF, which is frequented by frequent flyers, I hardly think
Quote: "most passengers seem to turn into animals as soon as they set foot on an aircraft. Doesn't matter wheteher they paid tuppence-haypenny or £100 to fly, they treat the a/c and staff like ****"

is very polite.

But judging by your previous posts, I think it's obvious what your intentions are in making such clearly inflammatory comments.

Whether you have a nice day or not is kind of irrelevant.

[CARR30]

It's called freedom of choice, and if I choose not to fly with an airline because I don't like the colour of it's seats or for any other whimsical reason, it is my choice, and I don't need to justify it to anyone.

Agreed and in the same vein me flying Ryanair for my own, no doubt, 'whimsical' reasons, doesn't make me an 'idiot'.

The poster above who compared this all to a religious spat hit the nail on the head. Anyone would think that O'Leary was slaughtering the first-born of anyone who refuses to buy his tickets.

Pay your money and take your choice folks. It really is that simple.

[Globaliser]

The poster above who compared this all to a religious spat hit the nail on the head. Anyone would think that O'Leary was slaughtering the first-born of anyone who refuses to buy his tickets.This was looking at both sides. Describing perfectly properly-held opinions that are unfavourable to FR as "the la-la land of mindless FR-bashing" is not very helpful.

[CARR30]

...and calling all Ryanair passengers 'idiots' was hardly helpful either. I still think it's as mindless a piece of Ryanair bashing as you ever find on here.

Furthermore I'd respect these "perfectly properly-held opinions" of Ryanair more if they came directly from fare-paying punters rather than as warmed over second-hand comments relayed by people who seem to have a professional interest in seeing FR trashed.

[SXB]

Carr
I've been on RyanAir quite a few times and have now just decided not to use them anymore because I don't like the way they operate. I don't work in the airline industry but I think, as a consumer, that RYR are just not for me, I'd much rather pay extra and travel with a legacy carrier. I travel a lot for my job (and we certainly don't use RYR) so maybe the fact that I've been exposed to a lot of other airlines affects my choice.

At the end of the day it's a matter of choice.

[10secondsurvey]

Carr30,

I for one do not have a professional interest in trashing Ryanair.

I'm kind of guessing from many of your previous posts in other threads, that you have a professional interest in promoting them.

As a frequent flyer I know what I do look for in an airline. Ryanair does not offer what I want. I do not need to fly with them in order to understand that.

[CARR30]

I have no professional interest in Ryanair. I just happen to own a house near Beziers and live near Stansted. Without the Ryanair links to Nimes, Montpellier or Carcassonne my travel arrangements would become a lot more expensive and certainly more inconvenient. As I've said before I flown these routes many times and also their services to Perpignan and Limoges. I've never had a serious delay, I've never been surcharged for luggage, the pilots have always spoken excellent English and the cabin crew have always acknowledge me when I enter and leave the aircraft. They've even offered to sell me a scratch card.

That's my story and that's all I can say on the matter. Personally, if I never needed to fly Ryanair I would have no interest in them one way or the other. Besides, the market has a habit of dealing very severly with uncompetitive or inefficient airlines.

Like the man said "at the end of the day it's a matter of choice".

[blueplume]

Blueplume
Considering you are posting to a forum for Passengers and SLF, which is frequented by frequent flyers, I hardly think
Quote: "most passengers seem to turn into animals as soon as they set foot on an aircraft. Doesn't matter wheteher they paid tuppence-haypenny or £100 to fly, they treat the a/c and staff like ****"

is very polite.

But judging by your previous posts, I think it's obvious what your intentions are in making such clearly inflammatory comments.

Whether you have a nice day or not is kind of irrelevant.


So, what are my intentions? As far as I'm aware I replied to a thread, even if it wasn't in the correct forum, oh my god, the skies are falling on our heads, so what. You're right, it is irrelevant whether I'm having a nice day or not. Up to you what you do with yours. What you think is also irrelevant to me in case you hadn't noticed. And as frequent flyers you still don't fly as often as crews who do work hard to keep it expedient, safe and pleasant. I also do so. If I feel I have a reason to moan about a certain type of passenger then I will use my right to do so on this website, that's what it's for.

Don't get to worried about it, it's unlikely anyway that either of us will change our opinions by writing tart replies to each other.

From the beach......

[bmoorhouse]

I regualrly fly Ryanair Stansted to Graz ( about once a month).

So far all flights have been on time or within 15 minutes of published departure/arrival time except once when ALL flights were delayed due to a problem at Stansted with fog.

Prices are very good, staff have never been rude and are helpful when asked, the pilots always got me there safely and in moderate comfort (seat spacing being tight as we all know).

But for £29 odd quid return it is GOOD VALUE Mr O'Leary is in it to run a profitable business and will charge extras where he can and make savings when he can get away with it - so what is new, that is business?

Simple answer is if you don't like Ryanair then don't use them - that is your ultimate sanction. Implying any passengers who use RyanAir are lesser mortals and O'Leary is some sort of evil egomaniac will change nothing - in the words of Voltaire "Prejudice is opinion without judgement" - there seems to be too much of the former and too little of the latter in many of the posts in this thread.

My two cents worth.

[Final 3 Greens]

bmoorhouse

I wouldn't say that I think pax who fly with Ryanair are lesser mortals, but I do believe that some of them are rather inexperienced and possibly naive, judging by the stories in the media.

I fly about twice per week, more in busy times and have been travelling frequently since 1978, so think I have a reaonable view on airlines.

Suffice it to say that I use Ryanair as a carrier of last resort.

easyJet, however, have caused me to re-evaluate my view on them, because of their excellent new policy regarding cancelled and disrupted flights, which I recently experienced.

I will now use easyJet as a preferred carrier, as they can be relied on when the chips are down.

[slim_slag]

That's interesting F3G. I took a quick look at the Delay and Cancellation bits of the T&C of Easyjet, Ryanair and BA.

Both BA and Ryanair are essentially the same i.e. we will give you what the law makes us, and nothing more. This is as one might expect.

Easyjet however do appear to provide more than what the law requires, and they put it in writing too! It looks like they will feed and accomodate you if the delay is not their fault. They also don't appear to have a clause which says the T&C which apply are those which are in place at the time of flight, not time of booking - an underhand move that another airlines has hit their passengers with recently. So good for Easyjet.

[CARR30]

It looks like they will feed and accomodate you if the delay is not their fault

That is turning out to be very generous. It will be "good for Easyjet" if they can counter-claim from BAA.

[SXB]

Posted by Slim Slag

Both BA and Ryanair are essentially the same i.e. we will give you what the law makes us, and nothing more. This is as one might expect.
My experience of Ryanair is that they will do their level best to avoid meeting the minimum legal requirements when a problem occurs. On the other hand my experience with BA is that they consistently provide more than the legal minimum when things go wrong.

I don't think it's fair to mention BA in the same sentence as RYR. BA is one of the largest airlines in the world, serving destinations all over the globe. RYR operate cattle trucks flying point to point on short haul european destinations to airfields in the middle of nowhere. There is nothing wrong with this but BA they most certainly are not.

Intrerestingly my employer will not allow me to book RYR flights despite the, apparent, cash saving.

[CARR30]

What would those 'experiences' be SXB? It would interest us all if the limitations of these companies could be illustrated with some personal accounts.
Firing off hackneyed phrases like 'cattle trucks' isn't very helpful either. The Ryanair fleet must be one of the newest around. I haven't seen a FR BAC 111 or 737-200 in ages and I think you'll find that they've all gone since your company last allowed you to use them.
Your sentence "I don't think it's fair to mention BA in the same sentence as RYR." was very funny by the way. A good use self-referencing irony.

[10secondsurvey]

Yeah, Carr30, Ryanair are right up there with BA!?

SXB is correct, Ryanair do operate cattle trucks on a purely point to point basis, with no connectivity, and invariably to little-used remote airports. Some people like that kind of thing, many others don't.

bmoorhouse Quote:"Implying any passengers who use RyanAir are lesser mortals and O'Leary is some sort of evil egomaniac will change nothing".

As regards MOL, he opens his mouth, and it becomes immediately clear the type of person he is. No implication is needed.

Just accept, ryanair is a cheap cheap cheap operation in every sense, with all that means for those who work for them, and fly with them.

[CARR30]

So 10SecondSurvey you can't tell the difference between this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0b/Boeing_737_New.JPG/250px-Boeing_737_New.JPG

and this
http://tinyurl.com/kom3u

Are you sure you don't need these?
http://www.danda.co.uk/images/promotion/page/37.jpg

[Avman]

I'd give up 10secondsurvey. If Carr30 enjoys the RYR product, that's his/her choice. Just as it is our choice not to touch them with a barge pole. Hey, some people will swear that eating at McDonalds is a gourmet night out :)

[SXB]

Carr30
What would those 'experiences' be SXB? It would interest us all if the limitations of these companies could be illustrated with some personal accounts

Yes, I quite happy to indulge you with some personal experiences, I'll just choose the ones I can remember best.

BA
First one, a few years ago travelling SXB-CDG-LHR-EVN (EVN is yerevan, RYR don't fly there) A least the 1st leg of the journey was AF, maybe the second as well but I don't remember. Given the route I knew the chances of my luggage getting there as well was limited so I had toiletries and two changes of clothing in carry-on. On arrival at Yerevan my luggage wasn't there, nor was it on the list of delayed luggage that the BA rep knew about. In anycase she immediately gave me cash compensation and said even though I was travelling economy (they wouldn't let me travel club in those days) she would compensate me at the Business class rate because they were not equipped with those "emergency overnight kits" that some airlines give you. Bear in mind that I was on a multiple sector trip with different airlines and it wasn't clear where my bag was (side note, I don't know the legal position with luggage on a trip with two different airlines). The BA rep also gave me a lift into the city as my driver never up turned and she'd finished for the night (this is all taking place at about 2.00am)

The BA office in yerevan were excellent, they contacted me everyday but they had no news, nobody knew where my bag was located so I spent 10 days in yerevan constantly getting the hotel to wash the few clothes I had. On the return journey I turned up at checkin and the same BA rep handed me a business class boarding card as an apology.

My bag turned up 3 weeks later and had never left CDG.

More recently I had to begin a business trip from London (following on from another) to Ankara. To cut a long story short my morning flight from Ankara was cancelled because the flight the day before had an aircraft problem. They couldn't get me to Istanbul to pick up another connection because all the Turkish Airlines flights in the afternoon were full. They offered to put me in a hotel for the night and put me on the flight to LHR the following morning. I really wanted to get home that day because Spurs were playing live on Sky so I told them them I really needed to get back that day. After some debate in the office they booked me on a Lufthansa flight to Munich and then from there a direct flight to Strasbourg, a taxi from the airport to home saw me sat in front of the TV watching the pre match analysis. Their only obligation was to get me to my final destination which was Frankfurt.

RYR
Last year travelled with RYR from Baden Baden (I believe they call it Karlsruhe) After waiting for 3 hours was told the flight was cancelled because of bad weather in originating airport. Asked the agent which location that was and "she didn't know" Of course bad weather means no compensation.

Previously to that used them from SXB to Stansted, flight cancelled because of bad weather in originating airport, evening flight full so they offered to book us on the flight the next day. My wife, bless her frenchness, asked them if they could book us on the AF flight to Gatwick later that day:)

The above experiences illustrate the difference between the two airlines, BA are not stupid, they know I'm a FF with them. I normally use them for longer trips which means I'm travelling Club which means a lot of income.

RYR are a bucket airline flying between fixed points and they are dirt cheap but my experience in using them gives me the impression that they are not 100% with their information. Also I think they exploit a number of their staff and this, in itself, is enough for me not to use them.

My view is that BA are a real airline who fly all over the world, if you have a problem you aren't on your own and that goes for most legacy carriers.

Sorry to ramble on but carr30 did ask for specific examples.

Also, I'm not saying BA are perfect, like any airline they have their problems but my impression is that there is a genuine willingness to help. This certainly is not the case with RYR

[daz211]

I THINK YOU WILL FIND THAT RYANAIR NOW CARRY
MORE PASSENGERS THAN BA
THAT IN ITS SELF TELLS YOU SOMETHING

AND FOR YOU NONE MC-DONALD EATING PAX
IF YOU WANT TO PAY EXTRA ££££ FOR FOOD
AND THE CON OF FUEL TAX GO AHEAD AND WASTE YOUR MONEY :ugh:

[SXB]

Daz
I think you'll find the local bus company in Slough carry more passengers than BA but that doesn't mean they are providing the same, or better, type of service.

That said, let's assume you've sold me. I'm going to Baku again next week, now I'm assuming that because RYR are such a huge and professional organisation they fly to Baku. I've decided to take RYR but I want to have a seat that, more or less, folds into a bed, I would also like a four course dinner before retiring. Or maybe I'll watch any one of 15 movies. On the way back I'll drive to the airport but at the last minute I have a problem so decide to stay for another week. I'm assuming that my RYR business class ticket allows my secretary to call them, and get an immediate answer, and allow her to rebook a flight I should have been on hours ago to another flight next week.

In life, you get what you pay for...Enjoy your big mac

[daz211]

lets see
I have to fly to ROME
I book with BA, I have to fight my way through all the passengers
stuck a heathrow on top of that I have payed for my ticket
and now they want me to pay for the fuel on top they will
fly me to FCO and i will then make my way to ROME
but i dont feel bad because i have had a free small meal
or have they canx the rome flight ?

I could fly from stansted with ryanair and fly to CIA
as it is closer to ROME i pay less than half the price of BA
and there is a coach waiting upon my arrival to take me there
i dont have to pay for the fuel so i will have enough left for a Big Mac

Ba 14sep-18sep LHR-FCO £552.30
FR 14sep-18sep STN-CIA £113.75

I didnt think I had to buy a meal for all pax on BA flight

lets see how well BA will do when ryanair pop up in madrid
very very soon

[Globaliser]

Ba 14sep-18sep LHR-FCO £552.30
FR 14sep-18sep STN-CIA £113.75Like so many of these purported BA/FR price comparisons, this BA "price" is a flat lie.

BA LHR-FCO-LHR for travel 14/18 September is available for £60.00 + £46.30 = £106.30 total (1820 departure out, 1335 departure back).

The lowest FR fare for those dates is £37.98 + £28.77 = £66.75. (This involves 0610 and 0635 departures, which may not be to everybody's taste.)

So the cash saving, just looking at the tickets, by flying FR is less than £40. Not £440, as daz211 would like to suggest.

The difference between the train fare from Liverpool Street to Stansted and back, and the Tube fare to Heathrow and back, will make a serious inroad into the £40 before you count anything else.

In fact, I don't even know where this supposed fare of £552.30 comes from. For a leisure traveller, you could fly BA business class for £254.00 + £51.30 = £305.30 on the same flights. The fully flexible Club fare is a total of £754.30. So one wonders whether the quoted price of £552.30 was actually just fabricated.

[derekvader]

Like so many of these purported BA/FR price comparisons, this BA "price" is a flat lie.
BA LHR-FCO-LHR for travel 14/18 September is available for £60.00 + £46.30 = £106.30 total.
The lowest FR fare for those dates is £37.98 + £28.77 = £66.75.
So the cash saving, just looking at the tickets, by flying FR is less than £40. Not £440, as daz211 would like to suggest.
The difference between the train fare from Liverpool Street to Stansted and back, and the Tube fare to Heathrow and back, will make a serious inroad into the £40 before you count anything else.

Confirmed, £106.40 with BA.

Fare (A1): BA LONROM NEUNCBA1 fare (rules) £30.00
Fare (A2): BA ROMLON NEUNCBA1 fare (rules) £30.00
Tax: United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge £13.00
Tax: United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty £5.00
Tax: Italian Council City Tax €2.00
Tax: Italian Security Bag Charge €2.05
Tax: Italian Security Charge €1.81
Tax: Italian Embarkation Tax €5.06
Tax: BA YQ surcharge £21.00

Total for 1 adult passenger: £106.40

[daz211]

I was just making a point
the prices shown where real

dep LHR 0910 14sep
dep FCO 1155 18sep BA £552.30

dep STN 0840 14sep
dep CIA 1000 18sep FR £113.17

shown are both airlines top fare for that day

[slim_slag]

Like so many of these purported BA/FR price comparisons, this BA "price" is a flat lie.
The difference between the train fare from Liverpool Street to Stansted and back, and the Tube fare to Heathrow and back, will make a serious inroad into the £40 before you count anything else.Oh Globaliser, you are so London centric. What about us lot who live in the provinces with huge houses and cheap mortgages and so have a lot more cash in our back pocket to go on these trips.

From my local airport (a 15 minute taxi ride) on those dates Ryanair will charge me approx £50 + £25 = £75 to get to Rome and back.

BA will charge me... er, actually they don't have a service. So for me to enjoy all SXB's anecdotal advantages of BA I have a 3.5 hour slog on the train/tube, or a 3 hour slog on the M1/M25 to Heathrow and their glorious passenger friendly infrastucture. Local airport is nice and modern and from kerbside to gate is generally 10 minutes (haven't tried it recently !!! )

So for you London folk, the tube to Heathrow (I see you didn't compare priices using the HEX) may make loads of sense. Please allow us simple country bumpkins to say Ryanair makes sense for me because they have an extensive network of flights leaving from all over the UK, something that cannot be said about these airlines who choose to operate from fortress heathrow.

And I will have my spreadsheet out shortly to do a proper fare comparison between LON and Rome. Results later :)

SXB, read the BA T&C's. For that was what I was talking about, not these anecdotal stories. You expect me to choose an airline because of goodwill? HA HA HA! :)

[SXB]

Slim_slag

I can understand what you're saying about T&C's but my point is that BA will do more for me when I have a problem, sorry about the anecdotes but Carr specifically requested some. In anycase even if I wanted to use RYR I can't because they don't fly to most of the destinations I visit for work plus my employer won't allow me to take them even if they did. My trips are multi sector (at least a total of 4 sometimes 8) and RYR just don't so that.

There is also a world of difference between the trips I do and those like the LHR-FCO example, I'm not hot-footing it to Rome for the weekend for a bit of R&R, I'm travelling all day and then working. When doing this I want a nice big seat that reclines almost all the way, I want an entertainment system with 15 movies, I also want something decent to eat because I won't get anything when I arrive at my destination in the middle of the night, I want my ticket to be completely flexable in case I decide to postpone the trip for a while but most of all I want to be taken care of if things go wrong.

My original point on this thread is that BA and RYR are completely different kinds of airlines and that is true.

[slim_slag]

Nothing wrong with anecdotes SXB, just that when you have a problem the airline is more likely to refer you to their written T&Cs than a nice story on a bulletin board. And the written T&Cs for Ryanair and BA are almost identical when it comes to delay/cancellations. As for whether BA "will do the right thing", perhaps you should post on the BA baggage thread :)

I also suspect your particular travel is mainly long haul to places FR or EZ don't fly. So it is unfair to compare FR/EZ with eg Club World, you need to compare then with BA European short haul services. BA business class in European short haul doesn't have 15 channels of entertainment, or big seats that recline almost all the way either.

Spreadsheet analysis coming soon...... When looking at BA fares from London, I note that the BA web site claims they also fly 'direct' to Rome from Birmingham and Manchester. Aha I thought, us provincial yokels might find that actually be worth looking into. Then when looking for fares from Birmingham you appear to route via Edinburgh and London. Has BA redefined 'direct' in the same way as it redefined 'enhancement' ???

[SXB]

I also suspect your particular travel is mainly long haul to places FR or EZ don't fly

That's correct, when using BA my flights are normally a minimum of 5 hours. For short haul I normally travel economy (though with a ticket that has some flexability) with LH, Austrian, Swiss or AF.

it is unfair to compare FR/EZ with eg Club World, you need to compare then with BA European short haul services

My point exactly, FR/EZ are just not the same type of airline and when thinking of BA I just think of the whole company and their global product, as when I use them it's always a combination of short haul and long haul because I need to get to LHR to begin my long haul journey.

Getting back to the T&Cs my experience of RYR is that they will do their level best not to meet their obligations, I also find them economical with the truth.

I have nothing against RYR, in fact I think they have opened a whole, new, section of the travel industry. At the end of the day their product just isn't for me.

[slim_slag]

Getting back to the T&Cs my experience of RYR is that they will do their level best not to meet their obligations, I also find them economical with the truthWhen things go wrong I'd agree with that, and I'd say BA are no different.

[10secondsurvey]

My final say on this, because it's getting tedious. Everyone has a choice, just as everyone has a point of view.

Essentially many here are defending Ryanair by saying the criticisms are based on hear say etc.. Here are some hard facts;

http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/0406/ryanair.html

http://uutiskirje.kuluttajavirasto.fi/consumer_law/consumer_law_1_2006/en_GB/ryanair1/

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=234377


http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,19829-2155143,00.html


http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CWU/is_2005_March_22/ai_n13464297


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/main.jhtml?xml=/travel/2005/03/05/etnewscourtcase050305.xml&sSheet=/travel/2005/03/05/ixtrvhome.html



http://www.forbrug.dk/english/dco/dcopressreleases/ryanair/


http://www.oft.gov.uk/News/Press+releases/2000/PN+37-00.htm



http://www.rte.ie/pda/business/2006/0406/1087449.html


http://www.thisistravel.co.uk/travel/news/Ryanair-guilty-of-misleadingcustomers-article.html?in_article_id=43251


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2005/0622/3024837290HM1RYANAIR.html


http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nachrichten-2006-04/artikel-6225488.asp


http://wwa.rte.ie/news/2005/0422/ryanair.html

[angels]

When things go wrong I'd agree with that, and I'd say BA are no different.

Have to disagree. RYR (or rather their handlers) effectively destroyed my son's new suitcase a couple of months ago. You get directed to a phone at STN to report the damage -- not even a human being.

My report of the damage was not greeted with alacrity. When I said the wheels had been torn off the response was that if the handle was still on it he could carry it.

I suppose this attitude works as I've given up trying to get the case replaced. I just can't be arsed banging my head against a brick wall.

When something similar happened to my case when it was in BA's care I was in pocession of a new case within a day.

That said, I'm not a Ryanair basher, but tend to subscribe to the 'you get wat you pay for' brigade. They flew me and the family to Forli with no hassles last year.

[Globaliser]

So for you London folk, the tube to Heathrow (I see you didn't compare priices using the HEX) may make loads of sense. Please allow us simple country bumpkins to say Ryanair makes sense for me because they have an extensive network of flights leaving from all over the UK, something that cannot be said about these airlines who choose to operate from fortress heathrow.
...
SXB, read the BA T&C's. For that was what I was talking about, not these anecdotal stories. You expect me to choose an airline because of goodwill? HA HA HA! :)True: If you live very much closer to one airport than the other, then of course the balance will be different. I myself will also squish into a 146 from LCY to get the convenience advantages over a 320 from LHR.

As for goodwill, I will simply say that I've had my fair share of this from BA. They've cheerfully filled in gaps - at no extra cost to me - which might have cost me much moolah if they'd stuck to the T&C. And that's on top of generally being looked after in all sorts of little ways which make the travel experience much less stressful than it otherwise could be. Very personal experience, but there it is.

[daz211]

im so sorry ryanair damaged you sons bag
but all airlines damage bags and i mean all even BA first class
passengers get damaged bags
and all airlines advise that any damage or loss to baggage
should be reported before leaving the airport
how would any airline know that you didnt damage the bag
putting it into your car or on the bus or train

as i see it a bag is only there to protect what is inside the bag
it is not a fasion item:ugh:

[Final 3 Greens]

and all airlines advise that any damage or loss to baggage
should be reported before leaving the airport

You stupid b*gger.

The poster was directed to a phone IN THE AIRPORT.

[daz211]

sorry missed the bit about the phone :\

this phone is at a security point called VP-9
and is for the use of domestic passengers as the baggage desk is in the
int arrivals hall where domestic passengers cant get to
if the son had flown international he should have reported it before
leaving the baggage hall (international)
however all domestic passengers have no choice but to use this phone
and a damage report would / should have been taken
there is only one problem with this phone and that is staffing
it can somtimes take upto 20 min for staff to become free and
meet you at this point (VP-9) as they may have other passengers they are dealing with
this can sometimes seem silly to the passenger as they can not see what is going on in the int arrivals hall

please note the airline (ryanair) have an handling agent
this agent handles many other airlines not just ryanair
so they can get very busy delays in dealing with problems
for domestic passengers are common

[SXB]

Daz

and all airlines advise that any damage or loss to baggage
should be reported before leaving the airport

I don't quite understand what you're saying - 'loss to baggage' Do you mean items lost from baggage or just baggage lost ? If it's items lost from baggage ie stolen how would you know before you left the airport ? I've never seen anyone open their bag and do an inventory check in the reclaim area. Also, I believe Ryan Air were recently the subect of a successful legal action when a passenger had something stolen from his bag while it was under the care of Ryanair, RYR argued he should have made a claim before he left the airport. The guy in question represented himself while RYR sent down a lawyer, the guy still managed to successfully argue that it was unreasoanble to expect a passenger to check his bag in the reclaim area. The judge, quite rightly, found in favour of the passenger. This is just another example of RYR trying to avoid their obligations.

Last questions Daz, do you work for Ryanair (or a subcontractor) and have you ever taken a flight on BA ?

[CARR30]

£552-30 is the maximum price for this BA trip to Rome

Your shopping basketShopping basket icon
Product Description Price
Flight Flight Departing Heathrow (London), London, Fri 8 September 2006, 1 adult. £552.30 [change]
Total price: £552.30 GBP
Check your flight itinerary details
Flight number From To Class Depart Arrive
Outbound BA0552 Heathrow (London),United Kingdom Fiumicino (Rome),Italy Economy (Traveller) Fri 8 September 2006 ,07:20 Fri 8 September 2006 , 10:40
Inbound BA2541 Fiumicino (Rome),Italy Gatwick (London),United Kingdom Economy (Traveller) Sun 24 September 2006 ,18:15 Sun 24 September 2006 , 19:50
I've checked the price of a future trip to the Languedoc. BA and Ryanair prices to Montpellier are almost identical. If I lived near Gatwick then I would almost certainly buy a BA ticket. I'm sure sitting in the back of a BA plane would no doubt be Burger King to Ryanair's McDonalds.

However the plane ride itself is nothing compared to the hassle of getting to, parking at and passing through airports. Factoring in the Dartford crossing and the gamble of the M25 is what puts me off this alternative to Stansted.

At least we have the choice.

[angels]

daz a 13 year old returning from a school trip to Spain who has a teacher telling him to hurry up is not really going to know that he should have reported the damage airside.

I know about handling agents and their role but my son entrusted his case to Ryanair, they can't just fob it off onto their subcontractors.

I rather suspect that this probably happens a fair bit and that people (like me) give up at the obstructions put in their place. Your description about this bizarre phone is the first of the obstructions.

The time BA replaced my bag I was flying Y, a damaged bag is a damaged bag which ever class you're flying.

[slim_slag]

The subject of BA and Ryanair fares came up again with some claims which need looking at. The claims were made London - ROme - London on 14-18th Sept.

Looking at BA/FR fares from London-Rome-London during the period of 13th Sept to 20th Sept. Figures are prior to addition of claimed taxes/airport charges, to get the rough gross price add £30 to both.

Both airlines have similar frequency of service.

For the 'leisure traveller' who wants to pay as little as possible I took the cheapest fares leaving on each day and calculated all possible round trip prices during that week. This gives an idea of the cheapest fares on each carrier.

Lowest round trip fares possible

Ryanair BA
Highest £59.98 £196.50
Lowest £0.02 £68.50
Average £30.57 £114.43
Median £25.98 £101.50
Mode £25.98 £77.50

So Ryanair's highest possible 'leisure' fare during that week is lower than BA's lowest possible 'leisure' fare.

For the 'business traveller', who we are told has zero flexibility in travel times, I looked at the most expensive fares on each day for the round trip. This gives an idea of the maximum fares you might pay.

Highest fares

Ryanair BA
Highest £179.98 £523.50
Lowest £44.98 £297.50
Average £102.62 £444.53
Median £99.98 £473.50
Mode £59.98 £473.50

So you cannot pay FR more than £179 to fly from London to Rome during that week. Compare that to the possible range of BA fares, their lowest fare for the inflexible traveler is higher than Ryanair's fare for the inflexible traveller.

The modes and medians tell the real story. There are low fares available on both carriers on this route for that week, but BA's are the exception and Ryanair's are the rule. For the 'inflexible' traveller, one wonders whether the recent BA fare cuts actually took place.

angels,

Ryanair got into trouble for this sort of thing years ago and were told to clean up their act by the OFT. If they haven't then I'd let the OFT know and put a claim in via your small claims court. No point in playing with airlines at their game, if they don't play ball then small claims court them.

[Globaliser]

im so sorry ryanair damaged you sons bag but all airlines damage bags and i mean all even BA first class passengers get damaged bags and all airlines advise that any damage or loss to baggage should be reported before leaving the airport how would any airline know that you didnt damage the bag putting it into your car or on the bus or train

as i see it a bag is only there to protect what is inside the bag
it is not a fasion item:ugh:This is very true: Any airline may damage your bag. But the differentiator is how they deal with the situation.

The last time I changed my main suitcase, it was because of cumulative damage over a number of flights. Most of the incidents did not result in major functional impairment. The notable exception was that BA did break the handle that was needed to pull the bag along on its wheels (it had one pair of wheels on a corner so had to be partially lifted).

I reported the damage to a BA representative at the destination airport and a PIR (or whatever they're called) was filled out immediately. Later, when I'd bought a new suitcase, I wrote to BA and asked whether they might consider making a contribution towards the cost. Not the whole amount, because the damage that they'd done was significant but didn't destroy the suitcase or make it unusable. The amount that they offered - sending a cheque immediately in the reply - was actually more than the original suitcase had cost many years ago.

Needless to say, it was a good investment on BA's part. I know that it might happen again. But I don't worry about what will happen afterwards.

[Globaliser]

The subject of BA and Ryanair fares came up again with some claims which need looking at. The claims were made London - ROme - London on 14-18th Sept.
...
For the 'business traveller', who we are told has zero flexibility in travel times, I looked at the most expensive fares on each day for the round trip. This gives an idea of the maximum fares you might pay.What about for the leisure traveller who wants to travel on those days? Many leisure travellers are constrained to travel on specific days. That's the primary way that I work, when buying: What are the lowest fares on the specific dates on which travel needs to be?

In any event, the "claims" are not just claims; your choice of that word and its perjorative overtone is uncalled for. Those are the prices that each airline was asking for on those dates. For the specific dates mentioned, that is the fare difference between FR and BA. One's own choice, of course, as to whether BA is worth paying the extra £40 for. But someone must have taken up BA's offer as the seats at that price on 14 September now seem to have gone.

[slim_slag]

What about for the leisure traveller who wants to travel on those days? Many leisure travellers are constrained to travel on specific days. That's the primary way that I work, when buying: What are the lowest fares on the specific dates on which travel needs to be?Just looked at the raw data for people who are constrained in the way you describe. For that period I looked at, on every day you will always get a cheaper fare on Ryanair than BA.
You have to face the facts, when you compare BA and Ryanair on price, BA comes out significantly more expensive. It's your money, spend it as you like.

[Globaliser]

Just looked at the raw data for people who are constrained in the way you describe. For that period I looked at, on every day you will always get a cheaper fare on Ryanair than BA.I don't doubt that this is often true. But, IME, the difference is usually not what some would like claim it to be. Often the prices for a certain date are pretty comparable. A person who needs to fly on 14 and 18 September would not have set out to pay the maximum possible fare on each airline on those dates. Much more likely that they would have looked at the lowest fare possible on each airline - producing the fare difference that has already been posted. A £40 difference between those fares is a world apart from the £440 that daz211's post suggested that it was.

[slim_slag]

Yep, the difference on those days is £40 if you take each carrier's cheapest offering. You can say 'It's only £40 more for BA", or you can say "BA wants twice as much as Ryanair". Some people will pay BA an extra £40, some will not. Neither are wrong.

Now leave the day earlier, hard to justify paying BA almost £140 when you can do it on Ryanair for a penny :)

(Taxes extra of course, so for those who want a gross price it's about £155 vs £15).

[PAXboy]

slim_slag Now leave the day earlier,Well, naturally, if you have free accomodation at your destination and work/family permits, that is ...

[Globaliser]

Some people will pay BA an extra £40, some will not. Neither are wrong.But what is undoubtedly wrong - and where my disagreement came in to this - was the following:-I could fly from stansted with ryanair and fly to CIA as it is closer to ROME i pay less than half the price of BA

...

Ba 14sep-18sep LHR-FCO £552.30
FR 14sep-18sep STN-CIA £113.75

I didnt think I had to buy a meal for all pax on BA flightExcept that the "base fare" comparison, FWIW, was £37.98 vs £60.00, and the total payable was £66.75 vs £106.30. So in neither case was FR quite as low as half of BA's price.

But, anyway, that's a technical quibble.

More substantively, it's wrong because it was a meaningless comparison and posted for its misleading effect.

[SXB]

Some people will pay BA an extra £40, some will not

I certainly would.

[CARR30]

slim_slag Well, naturally, if you have free accomodation at your destination ...

Not really. You can buy a lot of accomodation for £140. If you are travelling as a a couple to France profonde we're talking 4 star + gourmet dinners.

It's all about choice.

[Globaliser]

Not really. You can buy a lot of accomodation for £140. If you are travelling as a a couple to France profonde we're talking 4 star + gourmet dinners.

It's all about choice.To be perfectly fair, a fare difference of £140 per person would make me think. But usually neither my partner or I have the luxury of just saying we'll go a day early, which is why I have become very adept/expert/weary of looking at prices across airlines for a single day out and a single day back.

My guess is that this reflects the purchasing needs of a substantial part of the market, which is why fare comparisons that look at an entire week at a time are not very realistic. Nor are fare comparisons that compare airlines one day at a time, but then only look at flexible business fares which are not what this part of the leisure market is after.

[Crepello]

To me, it's not about price alone. I just made a reservation on a route where several locos offer service. Ryanair tendered for GBP25. A competitor wanted GBP53. I paid the higher fare and no, I'm not expensing this one.

Why? I'm no Ryanair-basher but having looked around their website, I'm alarmed by the childish rant about security restrictions. In these difficult times, nobody claims the measures are perfect but little is achieved by stirring things up. Thoroughly unprofessional job. So they can whistle for my business. :suspect:

[CARR30]

During the recent unpleasantness both Walsh and O'Leary have been singing off the same songsheet and both airlines are talking about suing BAA.

O'Leary's politics on Ryanair.com are typically robust, but which of these two famously once said "a reasonable man gets nowhere in negotiations".?

[Crepello]

(Slight thread creep)

Interesting, CARR30. The US public seem sympathetic to the cause of national security, and would generally rather have strict measures initially, later scaled back, rather than pushing for lesser reactions in future - which would surely make a criminal's task easier.

I suspect that in the UK, chickens are coming home to roost after years of OTT "safety" paranoia, from wiring regulations to drawn-out accident investigations, born of tiny minds with insufficient workloads. Perhaps some folks are so so sick of the minutia they no longer differentiate major threats from hypothetical.

Apologies for going off-topic; back to FR...

[HELL FIRE]

well if your so :mad: anti-ryanair you should learn your facts.MOL took over in 1990 and Declan has not been with Ryanair for years just like his bro Cathal....................

[Final 3 Greens]

Perhaps some folks are so so sick of the minutia they no longer differentiate major threats from hypothetical.

Crepello

Maybe folks here have experienced terrorism up close and personal for a lot longer than in the US and are more sanguine about it.

[CARR30]

I was obviously referring to Willie Walsh BTW, HellFire.

He's the boss of another airline whose name may not be mentioned in the same sentence as Ryanair.

[CARR30]

(Slight thread creep)
.. after years of OTT "safety" paranoia, ..
...

An interesting comment from the land where a notice must be engraved on car wing mirrors explaining how the convex lens works.

We are under the impression that the elfin safety compensation culture has been
imported from the US.

Best stay on topic methinks.

[slim_slag]

My guess is that this reflects the purchasing needs of a substantial part of the market, which is why fare comparisons that look at an entire week at a time are not very realisticOK, if a week isn't long enough for you I'll run it for a month, that will give a lot more data points. You select a city pair and a month and I'll run the program comparing prices on FR and BA. I'll provide the raw data so you can check I'm not telling porkies. Unlike some on here I really don't care which airline is cheaper. You pick the cities/dates and I'll run the program. Sounds fair?

[Globaliser]

OK, if a week isn't long enough for you I'll run it for a month, that will give a lot more data points.I wonder how my words "looking at prices across airlines for a single day out and a single day back" translate into a suggestion that we should look at prices for an entire month?

My point is that using a week is too long. Many people - like myself - usually have to go on day x and have to come back on day y. They're looking for the cheapest flights on those specific days only.

But when you did your last two comparisons, you used "the most expensive fares on each day for the round trip" to give "an idea of the maximum fares you might pay". The more realistic comparison, for leisure travellers, is to look at a single day each way, and to look at the minimum fares on those specific days.

That's how we came up (at the time) with the fact that on 14 Sep/18 Sep, BA was only £40 more expensive than FR.

[slim_slag]

Yes, Globaliser, I read what you said, I was obviously mistaken when I assumed an understanding of how simple statistics work.

You appear to like to judge the relative costs of airline tickets by looking at a single trip. When I look at a 7 day period I am actually looking at all 28 possible trips. If I took a 31 day period I would be looking at all 496 possible trips. So I am doing exactly the same as you are, but just more of them. Then I take all the possible trips and apply real simple statistics to them to give a rough idea of relative costs. Most people would say the more data points the better, so most people would say looking at a long period is better than looking at a short period.

Whan you took your single data point you said BA was 'only' £40 more and that is completely correct, for that trip. It was also £40 more than £40.
Look at it another way. There is a petrol station selling unleaded for £1 a litre, and it takes 40 litres to fill your tank. Cost £40.

Across the road is another petrol station and it charges £2 a litre for unleaded, cost to fill your tank is £80. It's only £40 more, but which petrol station would you use?

Ah you say, but if I pay £2 a litre I get a free sandwich. Well it's your money and you can do with it what you wish. I would pay the £1 a litre and buy a nicer sandwich at Marks and Spencer.

[daz211]

well said :D
lets see how BA stand when FR start MADRID flights

the best thing BA could have done was to sell up and keep
GO airlines as its main business what a mistake BA made

[CARR30]

It's better than an M&S sandwich, it's dinner ..

http://www.hotel-volvic.com/nouvelle_version/TITRES/titre-menu.gif
http://www.hotel-volvic.com/nouvelle_version/WWW/photos/terroir2.jpg
.. plus enough left over for the wine.

http://www.hotel-volvic.com

'Only £40' indeed!

[Final 3 Greens]

Ah you say, but if I pay £2 a litre I get a free sandwich. Well it's your money and you can do with it what you wish. I would pay the £1 a litre and buy a nicer sandwich at Marks and Spencer.

You won't get much of a sandwich at M&S for a quid, but you might get some earrings form Ratners :}

[Truck2005]

I haven't read through all these replies but I seem to remember in my days of Ge-ing that if more than one toilet was out of use, (for whatever reason), then the amount of pax carried was limited, (on the VC10).

Do civvy airlines have the same rules?

[SXB]

Carr30 and Daz
You still don't get it, do you ? Those of us who choose not to travel by RYR are actually not that bothered about paying an extra £40 or more (sometimes a lot more) I choose to pay extra to obtain a better product. There are certain types of services and goods where one will be prepared to pay extra, for example, I choose not to drive around in a Yugo, though if I did I'm sure I would save some money. It would also be cheaper for me to eat lunch in McDonalds each day but I prefer to spend a bit extra and have something of better quality.

You can harp on all night about what good value RYR actually are, but as far as I'm concerned they are a bucket airline flying cattle trucks, point to point, over cherry picked routes and exploit some of their staff and, on occasion, their customers as well.

[CARR30]

I partly 'get it' SXB - it's about choice.

It's NOT about about spurious claims that new 738's are 'cattle trucks', or that e.g. Stansted - Carcassonne (or as some might say, nowhere to nowhere) is now considered 'cherry picking' or that 'only £40' is a notional saving. I certainly don't get this constant harping on about 'point to point' being a problem. Would a policy of making everyone change at Charleroi make some sort of sense to you?

It's good for you that can pay extra for everything but most of us have to make choices constrained by our income and personally I couldn't care less what car you drive or where you take lunch.

Therefore, I don't 'get it', that an airline that happens to be convenient and economic for me arouses such hostile emotion in people who never go near it and need never go near it.

[daz211]

Well said CARR :D
ryanair have one of the newest fleets in the world
but if others want to call them cattle trucks let-em
i for one would fly ryanair all year round and have done
for many years never a problem always early arrivals
good choice of departure times and always good transport
links at destination

the others on here know that BA wished it had kept
GO AIRLINES and i see they are trying the low cost
thing again so if BA have to copy ryanairs business
type they must be doing something right :cool:

[SXB]

Carr
That's right, it's about choice. RYR do operate cattle trucks, when the flight is called you are herded into 4 areas with little fences where you then await your fate. The aircraft RYR operate also cram more seats into the same area than a legacy carrier. When you travel with a real airline you get a boarding pass with a seat number, I always wait until everone else has boarded before taking my seat.

As regards your comments about point to point, again when you travel with a real airline you can choose any two places where that airline (or it's partners) flies to, and they will get you and your luggage to said place, with a legal responsibility. With RYR you can't do this, you can only choose destinations served, directly, by your departure point. You could buy two separate tickets but then RYR have no responsibility to get you, or your luggage, to your final destination.

My comments about cars and lunch, as you know full well, were to illustrate choice, which we all have.

I have nothing against RYR but their product simply isn't for me. If you and Daz like it then I wish you good luck and happy travels, should we meet in a departure lounge then you can both buy me a coffee with the money you've saved:ok:

[10secondsurvey]

I hadn't read this thread for a while, but honestly, what a lot of fluff you are coming up with carr30. So you like Ryanair, that's ok, but what I don't get is your extreme need to rise to the defence of Ryanair. It really is quite bizarre. Do you own the company?

As for Ryanair going to Madrid, will it be Barajas like proper airlines such as BA and Iberia, or something unrelated 103km away like they do with Barcelona?

[CARR30]

Carr
That's right, it's about choice. ... should we meet in a departure lounge then you can both buy me a coffee with the money you've saved:ok:

Agreed SXB, except with the cattle truck analogy you obviously have no experience of UK terrestrial transport.

I'm sure that with the money I've saved the budget will stretch to dinner a deux at the hotel. Wear something nice. ... :O

[CARR30]

I hadn't read this thread for a while, but honestly, what a lot of fluff you are coming up with carr30. So you like Ryanair, that's ok, but what I don't get is your extreme need to rise to the defence of Ryanair. It really is quite bizarre. Do you own the company?


I've explained that I'm a customer of Ryanair. I've never had any trouble with them and they have been a god-send for allowing me to take time away from this blessed isle frequently and economically.

My 'extreme need' to defend Ryanair is as nothing compared to the even odder people who never use the company, find their routes of no interest and yet repeatedly churn out the same lazy accusations and secondhand sob stories.

So to paraphase, Mr Pot "So you don't like Ryanair, that's ok, but what I don't get is your extreme need to rise up and attack Ryanair. It really is quite bizarre. Do you own a competitor?"

[slim_slag]

So SXB, in your opinion it's only a "real" airline if it interlines your luggage and allocates you a seat. You cannot think much of Southwest then. Southwest are streets ahead of your favourite "real" airlne when it comes to giving their customers what they want. The times they are a changing, don't get left behind :)

[daz211]

are you shocked by this coz BA,IB and EI were
ryanair will start flying to MAD barajas in feb at this
time you can only book it from dublin but watch
this space they have plans to turm MAD in to a base
they will then have flights to LPA FUE TSF RAK
and many more

so in answer to your question YES it will be MAD :cool:

[daz211]

what is it with people do you think that all passengers on a flight
all want to go to the same place once they have landed
have you ever thought an airport out of town is better if you
are staying away from the city
not all people fly to FRA to visit or work in the city
some use HHN as its closer for them
likewise LHR LGW and STN if you were traveling to london
from FRA you might be staying in cambridge so STN
would be better
as we all know LHR and LGW are not in london :ugh:

[SXB]

So SXB, in your opinion it's only a "real" airline if it interlines your luggage and allocates you a seat. You cannot think much of Southwest then. Southwest are streets ahead of your favourite "real" airlne when it comes to giving their customers what they want. The times they are a changing, don't get left behind :)


In a word, yes. The vast majority of my trips involve multiple sectors so I expect my luggage to be transferred to my destination. For seat allocation I get to the airport early or checkin online to get the seat I want. BA are not my favourite airline, I simply use them as an example as most people on this forum appear to be UK based, though I do use BA, and like them. My favoured airlines change, at the moment most of my flights seem to be Lufthansa or Austrian and I am very happy with both companies. Over the last couple of months I've used AF quite a few times, historically I didn't like AF but my recent experiences have been postive, they have also been very good value.

As for Southwest I can't comment on this airline as I've never used them, that said my question would be - can they take me from a provincial french city and deliver me to virtually any major city in the world ? If the answer is no then I wouldn't be interested. The world may be changing but the vast majority business travellers are still choosing 'legacy'

Carr30
Picking the suit up from the cleaners tomorrow:)

[Ametyst]

Just flown around Europe with Ryanair doing about 15 flights. They were superb. All flights bar one were on time or early, the seat pitch is the same as any economy airline and the staff were professional throughout. The one flight that was late was only so by 30 minutes.

My nearest airport is Liverpool and if I only had BA and the likes as my choice of airline then I would always have to do a 70-mile round trip to Manchester every time I wanted to fly. In the North-West now. the largest carrier in terms of passengers carried is easyJet followed by Ryanair. BA has all but given up at Manchester.

I flew into Frankfurt Hahn as part of may tour and find coaches connecting with the Ryanair flights to take passengers not just to Frankfurt but also Koblenz, Luxembourg, Mainz, Mannheim, Saarbrucken, Trier, Wisebaden and Worms.

Of Ryanair's 16 hubs/bases only Frankfurt, Gerona and Stockholm are quite a bit away from the main cities they claim to serve. Charleroi is as close to Brussels as Stansted is to London and serves a large connurbation south of Brussels, Bergamo is actually closer to Milan than Malpensa and Prestwick has a superb rail link to Ayr and Glasgow.

I think easyJet and Ryanair are superb, but then again I think BA is a fine airline and I fly with them a lot. It is horses for courses.

[eidah]

When you travel with a real airline you get a boarding pass with a seat number, I always wait until everone else has boarded before taking my seat.

Which is exactly what all other pax of the "real" airlines do, and which is why FR doesn't allocate seats. IMO everyone who work for the airline industry should be able to appreciate a company that can make its pax run to the gate on time, even if it's just to get a window seat... ;)

[CARR30]

I always wait until everone else has boarded before taking my seat.
Which is exactly what all other pax of the "real" airlines do
Come on guys, only ONE of you 'real' airline' passengers can be last. No loitering at the back of the queue please, the gate has to close now.

I'm planning another trip to the Languedoc at the end of September. I looked at the BA site and they operate a service to Montpellier as GB Airways. They were much dearer going out but a deal breaking problem is that the service seems to finish for the year at the end of Sept, so there's no way back in Oct. Therefore it's laughable that Ryanair is being accused on here of 'cherry picking' whereas it's a so-called "real airline" cynically creaming off holiday traffic like this.

All the other points on here about Ryanair being very convenient for regional destinations are very well made and are quite important to me.

[alpine blue]

Have flown as a pax with Ryan Air and was inpressed, The fare was good and I do have standards that were not affected by flying 1 hour on a low cost airline. As for toilet paper it runs out on long haul flights on full fare airlines in business class, rather fly with Ryan.

[Pax Vobiscum]

Come on guys, only ONE of you 'real' airline' passengers can be last. No loitering at the back of the queue please, the gate has to close now.

Respect to SXB for holdng back to be one of the last to board the flight, but in my experience, there's always a mad rush to get on board ASAP. As soon as the 'body language' of the ground staff indicates that boarding is about to begin a queue (or if you're unlucky, a scrum) develops at the entrance to the gate. Once boarding is announced at least 75% of the pax will join the queue.

Even though I've got an allocated seat, I confess that I try to get on as early as possible too, simply because my experience tells me that if I'm one of the last to board on a flight that's reasonably full, I will find that there's no space left in 'my' overhead luggage area :(

[Final 3 Greens]

Come on guys, only ONE of you 'real' airline' passengers can be last. No loitering at the back of the queue please, the gate has to close now.

We do not "loiter", which when done with intent is a criminal offence.

We wait, with grace, to the end, 'cos we sit at the front and prefer the great unwashed to do their version of a ruck and maul, before we, in a gentlemanly fashion, take our place onboard.

Of course, the great unwashed love to ruck and maul and so feel very comfortable on certain carriers, where this process is encouraged per Eidah's admonishment that "IMO everyone who work for the airline industry should be able to appreciate a company that can make its pax run to the gate on time, even if it's just to get a window seat."

As to the fare difference, well we couldn't really care about that as we don't pick up our own tabs, so the Moet, Black Label, Widow or even the Trocken that our German friends serve tastes all the better for being gratis.

In fact, I actively encourage those of lesser standing to fly with certain low cost carriers, since it keeps the terminals at the major airports that little bit clearer, reduces the security queues and the hassle at the exec club reception, when foirced to wait behind some lesser mortal who expected access on a 2 bob ticket.... really :=

[slim_slag]

Ha Ha, F3G, very drole, you should head over to the BA flyertalk forum, they need cheering up over there and that humour would fit in well :)

Anyway, back to the thick of it. Good old SXB says it's not a real airline if you don't get a seat assigned. Southwest doesn't assign seats therefore cannot be a real airline. SXB has never flown them and by his own admission says he cannot comment. But surely SXB that is what some here are saying, which is one shouldn't comment on an airline if you don't fly them? And by your specific definition of what a "real" airline is, you have indeed commented on Southwest.

People on here constantly say "I'd never fly Ryanair but they are cr@p because people on the internet say they are". Best of all are the ones on here who say "Well I think Ryanair are rubbish, but I flew them once and I was pleasantly surprised, but I wouldn't fly them again because they are cr@p"

As for your desire to be able to depart from any "provincial French city" I think you will find FR flies to places in France that other airlines will not touch. Don't you read what is said on here, Ryanair go to out of the way places so they are cr@p, it sounds to me flying to provincial places is exactlty what you want from an airline!

I am with Pax Vobiscum on boarding. One advantage of status on in alliance is the ability to board when one wants, and I always get on early so I can stick my backpack in the bin. Another 20 minutes in an airline seat isn't going to annoy me, having to wait an hour for my luggage will.

Horses for courses.

[daz211]

I would be intrested to see pax number ( bums on seats)
stats for both airlines BA and FR I think that Ryanair is now
more popular than British airways and must have a more
modern fleet

[flybywire]

No toilet paper???

Jeeez I don't know how I would have done, everytime I have had to fly with FR (yes, I had no other choice) I had been literally wetting myself. I feel really unfomfortable and nervous on FR flights (I've had scary precedents) and I fly for a living. Go figure!! :uhoh:

I think FR is a success because it has opened the world of air travel to all those people who could not afford it in the past, however I am with SXB in this, not for me! I see their world from a cabin crew's perspective and I say thanks but no thanks!!

And one more thing for daz211, new aeroplanes are not a guarantee of fault-free aeroplanes. Some old planes are easier to fix and are much stronger. There's a debate going on on Rumour and news, worth having a look. :ok:

FBW

[eidah]

Why do you feel nervous, FBW? You don't have to like MOL or FR's way of doing business, but I find your prejudice insulting towards all the very professional pilots, cabin crew and engineers who provide a safe service for FR pax and who are not stupid or suicidal.

[flybywire]

Why do you feel nervous, FBW? You don't have to like MOL or FR's way of doing business, but I find your prejudice insulting towards all the very professional pilots, cabin crew and engineers who provide a safe service for FR pax and who are not stupid or suicidal.

I do not intend to be insulting and I do not have prejudices. However when I fly with FR I do not perceive safety in the same way as I perceive it with other carriers. full stop.

I was on the DUB-STN that had an engine fire in 2002 and I promise you the whole thing wasn't fun.

I am a cabin crew myself and I am deeply involved in aviation safety, CRM etc, so I think I have a sufficient knowledge to create an opinion for myself.
I love and enjoy flying, however I turn anxious only when I fly with them, so I avoid it.

MOL might have done lots of good (his employees might think otherwise but it's their own business) by making travel by air affordable for young people and people who couldn't afford it before, but made me anxious. So he won't get a penny from me.
No disrespect. It's just not for me!!!

[CARR30]

No toilet paper???
Jeeez I don't know how I would have done, everytime I have had to fly with FR (yes, I had no other choice) I had been literally wetting myself.

Literally wetting yourself? You literally need to see your doctor and consider incontinence underwear. From the cabin crew perspective cleaning up your urine is literally disgusting.
There's a debate going on on Rumour and news, worth having a look. :ok:
FBW
Where? You can't mean this rubbish http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=239918 surely.

[eidah]

I'm sorry you've had a horrible experience like that, FBW, but FR is hardly the only airline that's ever had an engine fire, it can happen to anyone. You're still here, so I assume the incident was handled professionally and all was well in the end.

Getting back to the toilet roll again... did they not have paper towels on board either? I happen to know that usually FR c/c are plagued by ridiculous amouts of napkins every day, so cannot imagine them running out. I personally don't care about the shape or colour of the paper if I have to wipe my arse (if this is too much information to someone, am truly sorry ;) ), and can't quite understand why this would stop anyone else using the toilets. And if the said loos get blocked, well, that should teach the company to supply more toilet paper in the future!

[flybywire]

Literally wetting yourself? You literally need to see your doctor and consider incontinence underwear. From the cabin crew perspective cleaning up your urine is literally disgusting.

hahahaha :}


Where? You can't mean this rubbish http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=239918 surely.

Nope, not that one.
I am looking for it at the moment actually, it's something about whether old aeroplanes are necessarily less safe than the new ones.

Eidah, you are absolutely right! However if you have a look at that incident again you'll understand what I mean....it was a long story about their SEP standards....

Anyway, it's enough from me you'll be glad to know, I've given the thread my 2cents, which I realise was a stupid thing to do as I could have bought a FR ticket with that money :}

[Final 3 Greens]

Eidah

Care to share your thoughts on EI-CSA being landed in an incorrect config?

I'm sure that you an give us loads of comparable incidents at BA, AF, LH etc.

[CARR30]

Eidah
Care to share your thoughts on EI-CSA being landed in an incorrect config?
I'm sure that you an give us loads of comparable incidents at BA, AF, LH etc.

A CAA report of this incident is here http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/factor200437.pdf.

I've made my own mind up about how well this was handled.

[Final 3 Greens]

I haven´t commented about well it was handled.

I am just curious to see if it happens elsewhere, like the engine shutdown that EIdah mentioned.

[SXB]

Posted by Slim Slag
Anyway, back to the thick of it. Good old SXB says it's not a real airline if you don't get a seat assigned. Southwest doesn't assign seats therefore cannot be a real airline. SXB has never flown them and by his own admission says he cannot comment. But surely SXB that is what some here are saying, which is one shouldn't comment on an airline if you don't fly them? And by your specific definition of what a "real" airline is, you have indeed commented on Southwest.

People on here constantly say "I'd never fly Ryanair but they are cr@p because people on the internet say they are". Best of all are the ones on here who say "Well I think Ryanair are rubbish, but I flew them once and I was pleasantly surprised, but I wouldn't fly them again because they are cr@p"


Exremely unfair comment slim slag. I have not commented on SW, I have simply stated my needs, which is that I need an airline that has a large route network all over the world, if an airline does not have such a network than they are of no use to me.

I am in Albania at the moment and I considered all airlines which fly here from my point of departure. Unsurprisingly the list was short, RYR don't fly here but some of my trusted legacy carriers do.

I have travelled with RYR in the past when paying out of my own money but as FBW says they simply are not for some of us. This applies to products and services in general, not just airlines. We all choose how we spend our money whether it be cars, restaurants, ISPs, chocolate etc

[eidah]

A CAA report of this incident is here http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/factor200437.pdf.

I've made my own mind up about how well this was handled.

Based on the report, I'd say the problems were created by ATC, BAA and the fire fighters. It wasn't FR who assembled evacuated pax downwind from the fire.

The overwing exits in an 800 are self-service exits. I'd say it's virtually impossible to stop pax using them in an evacuation, as no c/c is stationed there.

Care to share your thoughts on EI-CSA being landed in an incorrect config?

I'm sure that you an give us loads of comparable incidents at BA, AF, LH etc.

Well, you COULD check out this website: http://dnausers.d-n-a.net/dnetGOjg/Disasters.htm.

I can find BA, AF and LH, but NOT FR. Fair enough, FR hasn't been operating for as long as some of the other companies, but I think you can still see my point... Which is ACCIDENTS HAPPEN TO THE BEST OF US.

[Globaliser]

You appear to like to judge the relative costs of airline tickets by looking at a single trip. When I look at a 7 day period I am actually looking at all 28 possible trips. If I took a 31 day period I would be looking at all 496 possible trips. So I am doing exactly the same as you are, but just more of them. Then I take all the possible trips and apply real simple statistics to them to give a rough idea of relative costs. Most people would say the more data points the better, so most people would say looking at a long period is better than looking at a short period.Yes, I do like to do that. Why? Because (as I keep saying) that mirrors my purchasing requirements. If I have to fly out on Friday and come back on Sunday, only the flights on those dates matter. Even if all airlines were giving away free seats in both directions on every other day in the seven day period that you're so fond of looking at - or even the entire month - that pricing information would be totally useless. Your extra data points are totally irrelevant.

And the point I made before was that I'm sure that many other people have the same purchasing patterns. They, like me, don't have the luxury of saying I'll go the day before and spend the £140 saving on a hotel. I just can't go the day before. End of story.Whan you took your single data point you said BA was 'only' £40 more and that is completely correct, for that trip. It was also £40 more than £40.

Look at it another way. There is a petrol station selling unleaded for £1 a litre, and it takes 40 litres to fill your tank. Cost £40.

Across the road is another petrol station and it charges £2 a litre for unleaded, cost to fill your tank is £80. It's only £40 more, but which petrol station would you use?

Ah you say, but if I pay £2 a litre I get a free sandwich. Well it's your money and you can do with it what you wish. I would pay the £1 a litre and buy a nicer sandwich at Marks and Spencer.Actually, for that trip, BA was £40 more than £66. But that's just a small technical quibble.

I came back from Edinburgh yesterday evening. What did I pay the extra for? (Can't remember what the difference was, now - ticket bought some time ago.) Let me see. With a bag to drop (only because to new security requirements that mean the toiletries have to be in the hold :mad:), total time from front door of terminal to joining the security queue: 4 minutes. Can't do anything about the security queue (20 minutes), but then had a pleasant 45 minutes in the lounge, with newspapers to read and complimentary drinks, sandwiches and snacks. And a computer to use for a quick check for urgent email, having been away all weekend. No need to rush to board, just a quick stroll over to the gate opposite the lounge entrance a few minutes before it closed - yet still able to take my pre-allocated seat alongside my travelling companions. And then a flight to my closest airport, less than 40 minutes away from my home, door-to-door by public transport; drinks and hot dinner en route.

Not everyone will have all of these advantages from flying BA, but I do it (and BA's partners) frequently enough that I get them - so it works well for me. Yes, I think this is worth an extra £40, or even more. But maybe not £140. Either way, the value-for-money difference is a far cry from your simplistic example of petrol for £1 a litre or £2 a litre; it's much more subtle than that.

[Globaliser]

the best thing BA could have done was to sell up and keep
GO airlines as its main business what a mistake BA madeI would be intrested to see pax number ( bums on seats)
stats for both airlines BA and FR I think that Ryanair is now
more popular than British airways and must have a more
modern fleetThis demonstrates a fundamental misapprehension of what BA is about. Longhaul premium is BA's main business. Even within BA longhaul, the total bums-on-seats number is less important than the rather smaller bums-on-premium-seats number. So who cares how many bums FR gets on flights of only 2-3 hours in length? Comparing that to BA's bums-on-seats number is comparing chalk and cheese. Only someone with a very superficial idea of what these two airlines are about (or, alternatvely, someone who manipulates these numbers for FR's PR department) could get excited about such a comparison.

[slim_slag]

SXB, the second paragraph you quoted wasn't meant for you, I should have put it elsewhere in my post to make that clearer, sorry.

[Final 3 Greens]

Eidah

Which is ACCIDENTS HAPPEN TO THE BEST OF US.

So please will you explain what part of this incident you would classify as an accident?

[10secondsurvey]

Carr30,

Out of 40 posts you have made in total on pprune, 37 are defending Ryanair with silly sarcastic comments. Of the three that were not defending Ryanair, two were attacking BA.

Like I said earlier, quite bizarre.

[CARR30]

Carr30,
Out of 40 posts you have made in total on pprune, 37 are defending Ryanair with silly sarcastic comments. Of the three that were not defending Ryanair, two were attacking BA.
Like I said earlier, quite bizarre.


Wake up 10secondsurvey, this is a thread about the relative merits of Ryanair and its competitors. I'm content that I've managed to mostly keep to the topic.

Please don't expect me to do the stats on your ramblings , that would require an obsessiveness beyond bizarre.

[10secondsurvey]

Carr30,

Your cheap insults are not the same as reasoned argument.

The point is, that of all the posts you have ever made on pprune in every single thread on any topic, not just this one, you have promoted Ryanair in 37 out of 40, even in topics where nobody else has mentioned Ryanair.

I think the facts speak for themselves. I and others no longer believe a word of what you say.

On this and other forums, when someone is clearly posting with an agenda, as you clearly are, they lose all credibility.

[slim_slag]

daz211, the numbers you are looking for are considered extremely important by airlines and their investors (which is fundamentally what both the airlines are about) and are published monthly by both the airlines concerned.

So the number of passengers carried in the UK/EUrope for July 2006 are:

BA: 2,303.000
FR: 3,198,977

Load factor is also reported, the figures for UK/Europe in July 06:

BA: 79.7%
FR: 90%

Whether that is a good guide of popularity is debatable, but I guess it's not a bad way of estimating it.

Regarding about insulting posts, quite a few posts on this thread have been deleted, which might make people look nicer than they really are :) IMHO airlines are fair game for criticism, passengers who are legally spending their own money to generate revenue for these airlines are less fair game, and I am glad to see it appears the moderator looks at it in the same way.

[TightSlot]

Christ! Wish you hadn't brought me into this!

Actually, I don't think I've needed to do much deletion on this thread. I keep thinking that it has gone away, and then, like an opera singer for yet one more encore, it wanders back on stage... For the record, here's where I stand on FR (personal opinion, not that of PPRuNe):


Whatever any of us may think about FR, the fact remains that they are the most successful airline in Europe, by any criteria you can mention. The fact is that a majority of their customers are satisfied, and that this group of customers is expanding. Opinions about FR tend to be subjective - You like/admire them or you don't, sometimes based on personal experience, sometimes on principle: We all have the ultimate consumer sanction of taking our business away from them if we choose to do so. The fact is, by and large it doesn't matter what we do. There are millions of people who choose to fly FR and are happy with the product - not just the back-packers, students and sleep-on-the-floor-at-Stansted groups, but also the great British middle-class - the public, in their infinite wisdom, have decided that this is how they wish the airtravel market to be, and therefore that's how it is.

For the record, I loathe FR and O'Leary with all my being. Together, in my view, they have destroyed any pleasure and quality of life for either customers or staff, that ever may have existed in the industry. I have never travelled with them, and never will, purely on principle. I would rather pay more for what, in my perception only, is higher qulity. That is my personal view, and I am clearly in a small minority: it is unlikely that MOL lies awake at night worrying about my views. Put all of that together, and it probably means I am wrong, or at least that my principles are poorly founded.
Now that's been said, I will police this forum as best I can to ensure that the moderation is neutral, and that FR are treated fairly and have the option to respond to any and all criticism, and also that they receive the bouquets as well as the brickbats. In the end, this is a customer driven industry, and the customer will decide how best to spend their hard-earned income - and in the case of FR, they are choosing to spend it there.

[Globaliser]

I would rather pay more for what, in my perception only, is higher qulity. That is my personal view, and I am clearly in a small minority:No, it's not that small a minority! You really are in good company on this.

[CARR30]

I think Tightslot has made an excellent summary of the arguments of the two opposing factions on this increasingly sad thread sinking as it is into petty ad hominem bile.

I think we should leave it at that before there are tears. :{

[SXB]

Slim Slag
Many thanks for the clarification (a page back I think) and apologies as I misunderstood your post.

[10secondsurvey]

No, it's not that small a minority! You really are in good company on this.


Couldn't agree more globaliser.

[CARR30]

Carr30,
Your cheap insults are not the same as reasoned argument.

Couldn't agree more globaliser.

So as the fat lady glides once more onto the stage we hear the variation on this theme that goes "your cheap sycophancy is not the same as reasoned argument", Mr Pot.

Seriously though, in the unlikely event that anyone has anything to declare that's not covered by post 160, let's hear it.

[10secondsurvey]

Carr30

Getting above yourself, aren't you? Are you the new moderator?

[flybywire]

Seriously though, in the unlikely event that anyone has anything to declare that's not covered by post 160, let's hear it.


Seriously, your attitude is not the best here I have to say, CARR30.

This is a public forum and people should feel free to write their thoughts as they please (of course while respecting a public forum's t&c) without feeling threatened or compelled not to say anything.

I really do not like your way of defending yourself/attacking others/behaving as if you own pprune (although you might as well own part of FR, in this case good for you!).

I agree with Tightslot's post entirely, I can only add that while he doesn't have any direct experience with FR I do, and I do not want to fly with them ever again, full stop. It's just a simple difference of opinions and points of view and I take yours as such, you claim to be a pax and see it that way, I come from the "other side" and see it from a crew's point of view. However your last post looks like it might as well have been written in german. :=

I am so glad you'll never fly BA by your own choice, God forbid I have you as one of my passengers.

Good day.

FBW

[CARR30]

Seriously, your attitude is not the best here I have to say, CARR30.
This is a public forum blah blah
FBW

This IS a public forum. It’s about Ryanair. Nobody now is adding anything to what’s already been said.

In the process I’ve been variously accused of being stupid, lacking credibility, working for Ryanair, writing in german (sic) ,getting 'above my self' and having a ‘bad attitude’ . I’m not sinking any further to the level of those posters who exhibit characteristics I find equally arrogant and loathsome. (.."my passengers " FFS!)

If anyone wants to discuss their personal problems with me then they can email me at [email protected].

[flybywire]

This IS a public forum. It’s about Ryanair. Nobody now is adding anything to what’s already been said.
In the process I’ve been variously accused of being stupid, lacking credibility, working for Ryanair, writing in german (sic) ,getting 'above my self' and having a ‘bad attitude’ . I’m not sinking any further to the level of those posters who exhibit characteristics I find equally arrogant and loathsome. (.."my passengers " FFS!)
If anyone wants to discuss their personal problems with me then they can email me at [email protected].

First: if for whatever reason you quote my sentence it would be nice not to edit it to add things I have not written myself.

Second: I do talk about my passengers as their safety and wellbeing on board is my top priority and I do treat them as if they were guests staying at my home.

Third: you have just proven my point, exactly. Thank you.

[SXB]

I’m not sinking any further to the level of those posters who exhibit characteristics I find equally arrogant and loathsome. (.."my passengers " FFS!)
On the contrary I think that's an outstanding characteristic.

[CARR30]

I do treat them as if they were guests staying at my home.



Firstly: God forbid you’re ever my driver.
Secondly:It’s not my fault O’Leary’s threatening your precious job’s T&C’s .
Finally: This has all become too ridiculous for words.

[email protected].

[TightSlot]

Fat lady sang, and then left. I think that, for now at least, this thread has run its' useful course, so we'll close it down. I'm sure that the subject will resurface in the future.

Thanks to all for your lively contributions :E