Flygibraltar

[TartinTon]

There is apparently going to be a new airline based in GIB operating services to the UK. Rumoured routes are GIB - STN/MAN/BRS and another. Wouldn't have thought the MOD would be all that pleased with non-military a/c parked overnight in their back yard. Owners woud appear to be a property development company. Be interesting to see if it actually happens!

[bacardi walla]

Fly Gibraltar Land at World Travel Market - 18/Jul/2006



Gibraltar’s first low cost and local based airline will be setting out its stand for the first time at London’s World Travel Market between 6-9 November at ExCeL London.

Fly Gibraltar plans to launch low cost flights from The Rock of Gibraltar to London Stansted, Birmingham, Bristol, Manchester, Dublin and Cork from April 2007, but expects to start ticketing from October 2006.

“We are delighted to welcome Fly Gibraltar to World Travel Market” which this year has a major focus on the airline industry with a two-day conference with IATA and a stage debate”, said Fiona Jeffery, World Travel Market’s managing director.

“As Gibraltar has no direct air links from Ireland at present and is served from the UK with flights out of Heathrow, Gatwick and Luton, Fly Gibraltar’s new scheduled services are seen as a major step forward for the destination.”

Backed by Gibraltar-based property development company OEM (International) Ltd, the new carrier will operate two leased Boeing 737-300 aircraft in a one-class configuration carrying 148 passengers.

Managing director, Mark Carreras, said the overseas property owner market would be a natural target for the new operation but considerable traffic would also be derived from pure business and holidaymakers both to Gibraltar and to Spain.

“We know that 65% to 70% of the passengers currently flying into Gibraltar cross over to Spain and I would not expect that to be any different from our operation,” said Mr Carreras.

Although specific route prices have yet to be announced, Mr Carreras said that prices will be as low as from £29.99 one way.

Fly Gibraltar’s appearance at World Travel Market will represent its first public outing in the UK and Mr Carreras said it would be a great showcase for the airline.

“We have a very good stand next to the Balearic Islands and Andalucia which is great for us as we are looking forward to attracting many passengers going to that part of the world,” he said.

Fly Gibraltar will be exhibiting at stand number EM580.

[HZ123]

Was Mark Carreras, not a manager with GB airways at one time.

[Just Browsing]

If the MOD does't like the idea of civilian a/c based in their back yard overnight then perhaps they might feel moved to entice a company like easyJet to start flying there. Lowering charges would be a good start. That would kill any start up operation before it, well, started up.

That said, I'd be quite happy living on a boat in Gib Marina - good luck to them (and buy some buses)

JB

[nivsy]

The MoD are fully involved in all discussions regarding this new set up potential - and subject to various points that must be ironed out in respect of opening times and hours of operation and night stopping issues the operation should on the whole be supported - wihin appropriate levels.

The operation destinations (AT PRESENT) appear to be Stansted, Birmingham, Bristol, possibly Duiblin and or Cork as I understand it to be.

Aircraft are expected to be wet leased (B737).

Nivsy

[nivsy]

Rumours have it the aircraft will be coming from Astraeus for this new Gib Start up company. Anyone heard anything different?


Nivsy

[AEUENG]

Nivsy,

Is there any evidence behind Astraeus providing the wet lease aircraft or is it a bit of a stab seeings as their profile fits the bill? (ie. 737-300 who specialise in wet lease agreements?)

[Heffer]

http://www.gibraltar.gov.uk/admin/uploads/PressReleasePic.jpg

Shame the website doesn't upload anything as yet.

Heffer, if you would like to post that as a picture please have a look at this thread. That linked picture is huge and too large for the PPRuNe format.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=203154

Cheers

[Jinkster]

Does anyone have an address for the company? I presume Bland will not be very happy with flygib....

[nivsy]

Maybe i am missing something - but why would Blands "not be happy" wih FlyGib?

[Jinkster]

Competitor of Blands and therefore GB.

[nivsy]

While Blands do have a ground handling contract at the airport i can only assume that FlyGib will also compete for handling at Gibralotar and therefore Blands would have a good a chance as any to get the Contract. The Govt of Gibraktar will do very little to put "jobs" under pressure for any established Gibraltar company and i suspect that Blands will not be affected really at all by this - of if they are its likely to be for the benefit of the Company. BA are already withdrawing the LHR sector and while on certain days increasing the LGW rotation I would agree that they will be monitoring the sucess or otherwise of FlyGib very carefully.

Discussions continue between the MoD/Gib Govt and the prospective operator.


Nivsy

[Bumz_Rush]

Perhaps they will re-emply the redundant Monarch staff.

The picture published of the aircraft, was it a photoshop, or was it in GIB.

I have been away since the foggy days.

Bumz

[nivsy]

Read the report thanxs. Interesting. Ther pic is superimposed.....and the sun has been shing all weekend!:ok:

[Bumz_Rush]

I suspected the superimposition, but you never can tell.

I have been held away, by pressure of work....lol...Missing the hot weather, but not the hassels of air travel.....but at least the rain in spain is alsofalling in surrey.....

Back to the topic; do you actually think it will fly.....and have the MOD agreed to night stop aircraft. I can see the cost of security being raised.

Re the shared use; if this ever happens then I suspect the runway crossing must be removed, and perhaps relocated to the threshold. There is plenty of space there for a new terminal, and border control.
(Just look at the back log caused by the Tornado's recently.)

A bummer for those of us walking from Marina Bay...


Bumz

[nivsy]

Just about there in respect of the night stopping....security always an issue which is being discussed. The road barriers are being the first to be replaced and the current operation of the barriers shall be replaced by automated barriers operated from the control tower.

Will they fly?....Lets just say more optimistic now than ever before - the opening hours and schedule proposed are getting closer however cannot really say too much more.

The 111 Sqn Tornados were as you are aware a problem and did cause major disruption however in most cases the regulations are that the barriers and road crossing stays closed when the tornados are actually flying around the vicinity of the rock. At least for scheduled civilian ops they are closed for landing/departures etc but opened as soon as practicable after.

You are correct in indicating that there are discussions in respect of a new road...however this is in early stages of discussion and will be no doubt fraught with problems. A tunnel has also been mentioned but the implications etc of this is not even worthy of talk on a sunday afternoon!

[Bumz_Rush]

Thanks for the full briefing......much appreciated...I still think the bridge would work.!!!!!!!

Bumz

[Heffer]

Bit more about flygib now on their website.

[Heffer]

Can anyone confirm if they have got together to operate low cost services from the rock? I assume this will be on the 732.

[Yak97]

EAAC were involved with a previous attempt at a Gibraltar based airline.

Despite it being some years ago the website is still active:

Advert removed

Don't know if there is any connect with this new carrier.

[jmc757]

If its any use flygibralter's website says 148 seat 737s, which rules out 737-200s. Then again not sure their website and reality are close didn't their website previously state they were partnering with Astraeus yet nothing had actually been agreed with AEU :confused:

[nivsy]

Quite a bit on FlyGib in the Gibraltar forum. Nothing being reported as new info down here - except recently advert placed in local paper for cabin staff - which it is assumed could be for flygib. The ad however never mentioned carrier and applications were to be sent to a PO Box number (not unusual in Gib tho)


Nivsy

[teachin]

Perhaps the guys at EAAC will offer to fly the remains of the Gibraltar apes to Africa for free too!

Did you know they wanted to fly to Pakistan and fly human remains "for free", what an airline! A JOKE.

T

[Buster the Bear]

Fly Gibraltar, a new airline that proposed low-cost flights between the UK and Gibraltar has recently announced it no longer proposes to commence new services.

The airline has run into financial difficulties and will no longer be executing any operations.

Reports indicate that the multi-million pound investment needed to get the project off the ground did not materialise.

Fly Gibraltar had intended to fly to the Rock from Stansted, Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol, Dublin and Cork, beginning this summer.

[cesare.caldi]

Maybe Ryanair or Easyjet can start flights to GIB?

I belive will be an interesting market, specially for low cost flight to UK.

[MUFC_fan]

When EZY and FR enter an airport they don't usually operate 1 route, they will expand from the airport, especially in places such as Spain where tourism is extremely high. GIB is just too small for that sort of operation, but do not rule out a LC carrier into the airport.

There are many out there such as LS, AB, Wizzair and SkyEurope to name afew. If we were to name a UK route I would have to say TOM from MAN. Two UK airports are already served by BA (GB) and ZB along with BA and IB on the MAD route, so there is a possibility of the resurection of MAN at the airport after ZB cancelled the route.

[TartinTon]

May even see ZB back on MANGIB. With the MAD flights in the mix and therefore the costs associated with GIB coming down (in theory) combined with Jerez not exactly setting the world alight......who knows?

[radarman]

Forget EZY and FR coming to Gib. Apparently they did poke their noses in at one stage, but quickly sussed out that with only one tug and one bowser available there was no way they would be able to achieve the 30 minute turn-rounds they rely on to keep the planes in the air earning money. And the fact there's only room for three A320/B737s on the apron. And the weather problems that cause major problems with divs to LEMG. Just one of those would completely throw their operation to the winds.

[FlyZB]

I don't think we'll see ZB resurrecting the MAN-GIB route in a hurry. They're not an airline that mess around too much with their schedules if they can help it and having decided to pull GIB for various reasons and offer XRY in its place, I cannot see them going back on that. Plus the XRY route is doing pretty well. Loads of 130+ on most flights on a 174 seater A320 isn't bad going and it seems to have opened up a whole new market from MAN.

[MUFC_fan]

If STN and HHN can do it with FR, then surely ZB can do it with MAN!

I wouldn't be surprised if the next route from MAN with ZB would be MAD. Unless WW or LS get in first...

[FlyZB]

LS is the only hope for a MAD service out of those airlines you mentioned. I think there's a strong possibility of that happening now that they've dropped BCN, so let's keep our fingers crossed.

ZB won't attempt MAD again I don't think. They've found their market in the solely leisure orientated destinations and do very well in getting high load factors on a daily basis to those places. The only exception being BCN which they've made their own and do very well on it. But MAD is very different to BCN. Tourist traffic to MAD isn't as high and it is far more business orientated. If ZB had smaller a/c then it might have worked better for them but they struggled to even half fill an A320.

And as for WW, well you can call me negative, but I don't think they'll launch another route out of MAN in the near future. They have absolutely no ambition and what small growth they do have seems to all be focused on BHX.

Anyway, back on topic. If ZB were to re-launch GIB they'd have to drop XRY as I really can't see both of them working together. Unless they can market the destination in its own right (as opposed to simply an alternative to GIB) and attract enough pax for both a GIB and XRY service to become viable. This would take several years to achieve, if possible at all. I think there will be a MAN-GIB service in the next couple of years but I don't think it'll be ZB. GB perhaps?

[radarman]

GB did fly MAN - GIB using 737's once upon a time, but gave it up. Took it up again using 146's, but that didn't last long. Then ZB decided to have a go, but dropped it after a couple of years. Is there a hidden message?

[FlyZB]

But the ZB flights generally did very well. In fact, one of the flights even operated on a 757 on a W pattern with LTN (possibly on a Sunday?) and they managed to fill that up. The reason for leaving GIB was cited as airport fees. Perhaps a cover up, but why then offer XRY (a lesser known destination) as an alternative if the flights direct into GIB didn't work in the first place. Although admittedly it is a little strange that they've kept the GIB-LTN route if they had gripes with the airport over fees.

Anyway, we won't see ZB on the MAN-GIB route in a hurry I'm sure of that. XRY is doing nicely for them (157 pax inbound tonight). But I would like to see another carrier on this route. Shame FlyGib couldn't get off the ground, I think they could have made it work. Does anyone believe that another airline will take on their intended routes?

[TheQuietLife]

Sorry to resurrect this tread after a month, but someone just emailed me a link to it asking about Manchester-GIB flights.

To confirm what FlyZB posted above, when they droped MAN-GIB Monarch did make a song and dance about landing fees.

The situation was that they were recieving a fixed term discount on landing fees for opening up a new route to give it time to establish itself.

And that discount period was about to finish.

Desptie themselves claiming the route had sucessfully established itself, they decided they'd try and push for a permanent drop in fees and not a return to what they had agreed they would return to. This didn't go down too well locally, since ZB refused to believe the Gib. govt. when they said they didn't set the landing fees, the MOD did.

Also they picked their fight a couple of years too early, as the MOD were just beggining to be really pushed for cost savings themselves and their discussions with GOG about options for efficiency savings were only just begining.

Anyway, it was a game of chicken, ZB really believed GOG+MOD would blink - and they didn't so ZB moved the route to XRY to save face.

When thinking about ZB loads and destinations you need to also remember they do very well from the expat market on a lot of their routes, infact their loyalty scheme is one of the best if you are a 'regular route traveller' - and they get lots of against the flow business becuase of this.

A lot of people in the GIB and near by Spain area would love to see the MAN-XRY service switched to MAN-GIB again - XRY is a real b****ard to get to and a complete no-no on public transport.

----

The one very recent agreement worth of note is that MOD and GOG have agreed to adjust roles with regard to comercial contracts.

GOG will now set and collect and keep for itself the landing fees at GIB. With the cost of operting the airport during normal business hours now being split 50:50 between GOG and MOD. With any party requiring periods of excessive usage (i.e. a larger end of the scale MOD excersise period) paying for it. GOG will totally meet the costs of evening civilian operation (MOD in such periods would be client).

---

Roll on the new terminal by end 2008.

GOG insist GIB will not become a free-for-all, and I believe them. Therefore don't look for Ryanair etc, being allowed in. Smaller operators perhaps, even LCC - providing they allow sales through the global sales systems and END-ON-ENDS etc would be the ideal operators.

It would be nice to have ZB on another route, since they are here for LTN and I'd be amazed if they dropped that one unless actually forced out.

[ExpectmorePayless]

The withdrawal of the MAN-AGP-ABZ-AGP-MAN A320 route would permit
a thrice weekly pm MAN-GIB-MAN followed by an evening MAN-AGP-MAN.

You heard it here first :ok:

[ivanskigib]

What seems strange is that no other airline has decided to pick up the MAN-GIB route since there is a big hole in the market locally for this. Even a twice weekly flight would be successful as the occupancy levels for Monarch were always good even at 4 flights per week.

It is a real shame ZB decided to pull out like they did just to save face.

Let's hope someone sees sense and restores this.

[nivsy]

While I agree with most of the dialogue of Quiet Life - what is the problem of allowing RYR into Gib? I am sure that should an appropriate deal be struck with Ryanair they would open Gib up to a few destinations. The GOG can be a little shall we say "its our way or no way" and ofcourse Ryanair know how to negotiate .

Monarch had a good deal with Mod on the Manchester route (they paid less landing fees on that route than LTN as it was subsidised for a period of time. Once that subsidy expired ZB cared little for the pax who supported the route and stopped th service. Ofcourse the cited landing fees as being the issue (and it was) however what they never outlined was that they were being asked to pay the going rate for Gibraltar and were no longer being subsidised


Nivsy

[TheQuietLife]

nivsy, I'll come onto the problem of Ryanair in a minute,

However yes as you say, a pity ZB had to pull out to save face (they could have bumped the ticket prices for a short period, then quietly dropped them) however they did totally read this situation wrongly....

Anyway GOG now effectivly in control of landing fees. Lets hope ZB come back on the MAN route. - I note they havn't launched their new timetable with regard to MAN routes yet!

---

OK, the problem with Ryanair is that they are strictly a point-to-point airline. No connections. This is NOT what Gibraltar needs.

If you become a destination on the point-to-point network of an airline then you are competing with all other destinations on that network - but ONLY for the passengers who are within the catchment area for that airport.

Also it means that only 1 new destination option becomes avaiable for passengers departing from Gibraltar. It does not open up alternative routing and options for passengers to other destinations.

Now point-to-point networks come in different guises.

RyanAir are the worst type becuase they only sell tickets directly and don't load them onto the global booking systems.

Monarch are also a point to point network - however they load fares onto the global booking systems (GDSs), meaning anyone using any flight finding tool can find them and book them.

- And they can also book them through a travel agent / or travel agent type website. This is important because people can then structure an ittinary that has multiple flights (not strcitly speaking connecting) but on one 'booking' and therefore still be in a postion of easily having an insurance option against something going wrong in their multiple leg journey.

[Strictly speaking ZB will actually officially sell you a full flex connections permited ticket, however they want FULL fare!]

Now there are plenty of airlines who offer connections (look at Air Berlin etc) also Brussels Airlines etc.

This is one of the reaons I would much sooner be persuading GT to operate GIB-BCN-GIB (at midday) than get either vueling or click on the route.

While click do load their fares into the GDS (using the IB codes that their flights also operate under), - they do not permit connections, end on ends etc. Which makes them a limited benefit.

---
Having said all that, why do I want ZB (a point-to-point) back on the MAN route? - Because they already have an established presence in Gib, many people are 'invested' in their FF scheme, and it does make Gib have a choice of ZB destinations rather being out on the end of the limb. [ZBs FF scheme and other destinations is also well suited to the trafic on a GIB route, which is therefore in the consumer/travellers interest.]

very tired, off to bed.

[nivsy]

Yes, I do agree with just about everything you say in your very detailed post. I r ecall the heady days (less than 12 months ago) however when British Airways offered jst what you mention on a daily basis from good old London Heathrow. The national carrier (and not for the first time) dumped the route leaving many Gib residents somewhat aggrieved at the loss of international onward connnections. Ofcourse as you mention Iberia and to a lesser extent BA via LGW offer this currently
I for one would welcome Ryan Air even if it is a service to Stansted. I know most certainly that the Chief Minister would most possibly welcome anyone!! (especially as the landing fees are now completely handled by GOG)
Nivsy

[ivanskigib]

Yes but even Stanstead again is London. Unfortunately what is needed for many is the connection reestablished to Manchester. There is no reason now for Monarch to reintroduce this at least.

[FlyZB]

No announcement made as yet regarding Summer 2008 flights from MAN on the ZB website. However if you look at the timetables section, all MAN flights are loaded in the system except for XRY. I thought it was just a case that Jerez has been dropped but could it be that they're looking at the possibility of returning to GIB next summer before making any announcements regarding Manchester flights?

[airhumberside]

Could Jerez be axed to make way for the new Murcia service, and extra TFS/ACE flights?

[FlyZB]

Initially that's what I thought. Seems strange though because Jerez appears to be doing very well, although I'm unsure as to what the advance bookings for this winter are like. But also, why haven't ZB announced their MAN flights for Summer 2008? They've made a song and dance about the release of S08 from BHX, LGW & LTN but nothing so far about MAN. Sounds to me like they may be tweaking a few things behind the scenes. Fingers crossed for a GIB relaunch!