Dash 8 engine failure

[Oilburner]

Heard that a Dash 8 departing Canberra yesterday had an engine failure! Anyone know what's the score on it?

[Marauder]

NCD, ..it happens, big deal:bored:

[Gnd Power]

NCD, ..it happens, big deal:bored:

Yeah right, it happens!!! No big deal, sure!!!

Bet the punters down the back don't have the same opinion,.... and perhaps the crew feel that it was a little bit more than a bit of a bore (your emicon).

If it had happened to me I would think it WAS a big F....n deal, especially out of CB.

Anyway, if it happened, good job by the crew, and the organization that was the support and training behind them.:ok:

[drshmoo]

2nd hand report that it was an Eastern Dash that had the engine feather itself and then subsequently shutdown. Good work by the team to get the girl back on the ground. Apparently this little event is practised on sim regularly.

[apacau]

And this from the Canberra Sunday Times (won't vouch for accuracy!):

Airport emergency
Catherine Naylor
Sunday, 23 July 2006

A MELBOURNE-bound Qantas flight with 19 people on board had to make an emergency landing at Canberra Airport yesterday when one of its engines failed.
The pilot of flight QF 2811 had to abort the plane's journey to Melbourne and return to Canberra after an indicator light warned him of a problem with one of the two engines on the Dash 8 QantasLink aircraft. It was carrying 16 passengers and three crew.

Airservices Australia said the situation had been a local emergency, requiring the airport's emergency services to prepare for a bad landing.

The flight left the terminal as scheduled at 4pm, but as the plane was lifting into the air, the pilot became aware of the engine trouble.

He immediately alerted air-traffic control in Canberra, which organised for the flight's urgent return to the airport.

Airport emergency-services crews were put on notice and trailed the plane down the runway as it landed 20 minutes later.

An off-duty pilot was watching the plane from an airport viewing area as it landed. He told the Canberra Sunday Times he could see that the propeller on one of its two engines was not working.

The passengers remained on board the aircraft for five minutes after landing. They were transferred on to the next Qantas flight to Melbourne, QF 819, which left at 5.30pm and landed an hour later. The Dash 8 was grounded so inspections on the engine could be carried out. Last night it was still sitting on the runway at Canberra Airport.

A Qantas spokeswoman confirmed the problem had "something to do with the number one engine" but could not say what exactly was wrong because inspections were continuing. "Our captains are trained to land an aircraft with one engine."

She could not say how often engines failed on flights.

A spokesman for Airservices Australia said air-traffic control had informed emergency services of the returning flight. "They were in the trucks and ready to operate. They would have been on site within two to three minutes [if the landing had not gone as planned]."

He said pilots trained every six to 12 months in landing a plane after engine failure.

QantasLink bought seven new Dash 8 Q400 planes earlier this year, at a cost of $200 million. Two of the aircraft are due to start operating on the Canberra-Sydney route in August.

The plane involved in yesterday's emergency was an older-style Dash 8.

[weasil]

A good friend of mine flies for Porter Airlines in Toronto. He said during training on the Q400 most of the other students at FlightSafety were Australians. That's a long way to send you for training.
What model was the Dash involved in the incident?

[speedjet]

Weasil,

It sure is a long way to Toronto for Sim, particularly considering we have to go via JFK instead of LAX direct. Apparently American Airlines don't acknowledge QantasLink but do Qantas for Interline Staff Fares. Conversion training was 12 days away and 6 month checks are 7 days

[TopperHarley]

After just speaking to the crew....... Talk about bad luck......

They had an elevator/pitch jam too on the previous sector to Wagga, the commander had to come back and hand fly an RNAV, in icing conditions, with multiple Vref additives and nearly blew a tire on landing due to the high approach speed.

If that wasnt bad enough, on their CB chaser, an unscheduled feather on the #1 and the poor FO had to hand fly the bad boy OEI around a DME arc onto the VOR approach again in icing conditions !.

The 'FO' was actually quite a senior training captain who was in the RHS due to the current shortage of FO's which is very lucky as apparently he flew a near perfect profile descent on the arc - all worked out in his head, whilst hand flying in very challenging conditions !

Well done ! Sounds like a 2+ performance all 'round to me !

Good prep for cyclic 438!

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Good info there Topper.

... and still some liken pilots to bus drivers... (Lurker, you lurking out there?):rolleyes:

[Felix Saddler]

Well done to the pilots

[weasil]

Sounds like those guys did a great job in difficult circumstances. Do you have a lot of ILS approaches or more RNAV? I mean I have to assume they flew the best approach available to them.

[Felix Saddler]

whats the difference between an ILS approach and an RNAV approach?

[weasil]

Well I don't know about in Australia or the UK but in the USA an ILS approach is a precision approach procedure which uses VHF navigation signals. An RNAV approach is one flown using the FMS (GPS/VHF Blend) and is a non-precision approach. (Sorry for the thread drift).

[Felix Saddler]

thanks Weasil, sorry for drifting, continue.......

[Hugh Jarse]

Is that like "almost" getting pregnant?:E

Tropper H: We're all trained to do the "profile management" mentally. A lot of emphasis is placed on it in the sim:}

Well done ! Sounds like a 2+ performance all 'round to me !
Jeez you're a tough taskmaster:8 I would have given them a 3+ or 4 :}

The day's duty sounds exactly like your typical Cyclic scenario. Hopefully the guys will consequently be signed off for 438 or 439:ok::}

Drshmoo, see above. We're doing Cyclics every 3 months, so this situation would have held a sense of dejavu for the crew. They certainly would have been "current". An all engines operating approach is unusual in the sim.

[TopperHarley]

Hugh - Re the 2+....... Im applying for a C&T position.

[mustafagander]

I'm with you, Jarse! 2+ is pretty tough - I don't want my next sim check to be marked that hard.

[Vee Won Kutt]

Yeah right, it happens!!! No big deal, sure!!!
Bet the punters down the back don't have the same opinion,.... and perhaps the crew feel that it was a little bit more than a bit of a bore (your emicon).

Dash 8 engine failure going into Melbourne a few months back - pax could hardly care less. Some went back to sleep!
We're doing Cyclics every 3 months, so this situation would have held a sense of dejavu for the crew
Your right Jarse! This is why i'm a supporter of the 3 month cyclic. Good job to the crew.:D
Any bets on the rego? I will get in first with VH-TQF.

[Hugh Jarse]

Wee,

good ol' "one way Foxtrot" :}

Dash 8 engine failure going into Melbourne a few months back - pax could hardly care less. Some went back to sleep! I remember shutting one down in a 300 on the way back from CB a couple of years ago. We had exactly the same response from the cabin:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: . The only notable exception being a former Leader of the Opposition that decided to shake my hand and thank me profusely in front of a full cabin. Still trying to work out why?:confused:

Tried to get out of my next Cyclic, but the boss at the time failed to see the humour :E

As long as you don't get too enthusiastic with the Condition Lever, the PAX won't even know until you tell 'em :E

[CAPTBOB]

Hey leave poor old foxtrot alone!!

It was actually Romeo. Even more relevant to the sim.

[Cloud Cutter]

It sounds like an unscheduled autoFX rather than an engine failure (although the end result is the same). I would be worried if any pilot (training captain or not) couldn't fly an approach (whatever type) on profile. ILS would not have given any advantage unless conditions were particularly poxy. It sounds like unscheduled autofeather is a fairly common complaint on the type, Air Nelson have already had one on their Q300 fleet after less than a year of service.

With respect to nearly blowing a tire due to high approach speed, that doesn't make a lot of sense in a Dash, unless it was the nosewheel:}

[CAPTBOB]

Cloud Clutter, you need to relax a little. Your a bit outside the loop.

The current cyclic program at Eastern includes an unscheduled feather and a pitch jam as part of the matrix. This is where the higher than normal approach speed comes from. The Vref becomes 145 knots with icing on speed additives and the requirement for a flapless landing. The max tyre speed for the Dash is 139 knots. Hence the risk of a tyre blowing.

Not sure why you think that an unscheduled feather is a common Dash occurance. One by Air Nelson in twelve months of operations must be OK. Unless of course there aircraft dont do many hours.

I'm sure my colleagues will correct me but I cant recall when the last unscheduled feather occured on an Eastern aircraft. The same being one of the most experienced operators of this type in the world. The Dash's at Eastern never stop moving.

[Taggert]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the max tyre speed 165kts or is it different on -100 (if in fact it was a -100?)
:confused:

[rmcdonal]

I dont even think Eastern has -100s anymore.

[MarkD]

weasil

wasn't aware anyone was flying for Porter yet :}

[weasil]

Well he did say it is a startup airline. Hence the reason he was in training at flight safety. Not sure of the details of the operation.

[Cloud Cutter]

Thank you, I will try to relax. Sorry if I sounded arrogant, was just interested in finding out more info.

I would class 1 in 12 months or so as very common, given this is unheard of for most other turboprops. Even if the tire speed is only 139 kts, with a Vref of 145 and no tailwind, the max speed you should be touching down with is around 135. Does the Dash have a restriction on use of flap for approach and landing under icing conditions? Where in Australia do you have icing conditions close to the ground? (not insinuating anything, just genuinely interested).

[Kiwiconehead]

I dont even think Eastern has -100s anymore.

Still have nine trundling around.

I would class 1 in 12 months or so as very common, given this is unheard of for most other turboprops.

Air Nelson's aircraft are all new build- I would guess that the uncommanded auto feather was that particular aircraft's "wierd defect from the factory". The build quality fom Bombardier can be a bit poor these days. I can't remember an uncommanded autofeaher from Easterns 20 odd aircraft for a bloody long time.

[Vee Won Kutt]

Hey leave poor old foxtrot alone!!

Romeo runs a very close second place to Foxtrot in the 'one-way' stakes!

[haughtney1]

Propellors? Auto-feather? Crash 8's?

Was this one of the much vaunted Q400's? :oh:

[hoss]

Straight from limitations, 100 maximum tyre speed 139, for the 200 and 300 it is 165.

No restriction on the flaps for an approach in ice, although most likely flap 15 would be used if flying an intrument approach.

Ice close to the ground? Just about everywhere at this time of year especially CBR. Wish I could get hold of a picture of one of the Dashes covered in snow at MHU.

hoss :)

[CAPTBOB]

Hi Cloud Clutter,

The restriction on the flap setting is brought about by a requirement to maintain the flap setting at the time of a pitch (elevator) jam not due to the icing conditions. The icing requirement is not necessarily brought about by the actual presence of ice. Any time visible moisture is present on the ground with a temp of 10 deg or less, the icing systems are on and the additives are made to the speeds.

And for another post, of course Eastern still operate the 100 series Dash. And what a great machine they are.

[keepemseperated]

And for another post, of course Eastern still operate the 100 series Dash. And what a great machine they are.
Can you still land long without the company number crunches finding out in the -100's? ie because it's outside set parameters.

[Toluene Diisocyanate]

Can you still land long without the company number crunches finding out in the -100's? ie because it's outside set parameters.You could but don't know if you would.:=
With the present blame mentality in Easterns of epidemic proportion no-one would dare:oh: in the fear of getting suspended or sacked. :yuk:

Who needs FOQA:D

[How's it Hanging]

This was the last unscheduled feather I can remember at EAA, October 27, 2001. My memory not good, so I might be corrected! VH-TQY was first Q300 for EAA.
www.airliners.net/open.file/0198388/M

[splatman]

A near perfect descent profile onto an arc, flown single engine - and it only rates a 2+.

Give me a break! Cruise and descent equals 4! and if you cant get a 4 allocated for that - send me the form.

Nice work who ever the crew was - must be all the good training and checking provided over the last 3 years. :}

Keep up the good work guys and gals!

[Bunyan Wingnut]

My recollection Sat night in Canberra when this incident happened, it was overcast, moist NE winds, about 4 degrees C, DP about 2 degrees, about 95% RH, so icing conditions were on the cards :suspect:

[Hugh Jarse]

Nice work who ever the crew was - must be all the good training and checking provided over the last 3 years. :}Exactly, Splatman. Unfortunately, he don't work there anymore.:ooh: But he certainly set an enviable standard, judging by the 'banter' :E, and personal experience :ok:

[splatman]

Geeeezzzeee another check and trainer has left :O

Jarse - drop me an Im as to who it was