Egnatia flight college

[RITZER82]

Greetings captains, has anybody heard about Egnatia flight school in Greece I have just looked at the price and it is unbelieveable you can do the integrated course which includes accommodation and all the other bits and bobs at under 30,000 pounds can I please get feedbacks from possibly ex- students of this school or from anyone of what they think of this school. I was thinking of going to Cabair but at this price and location who can argue with it, all assistance will be much appreciated, thank you in advance.:)

[aviator001]

its a new school that just opened last month so there are no x students. i am considering it myself, i am going on on a two day visit to the school to see if its as good as it sounds..

[scroggs]

Just a quick warning: last time this school was mentioned, there was a flurry of new registrations to sing its praises. One instructor even identified himself while attempting to advertise the school, and the whole thing appeared highly orchestrated - as the IP addresses confirmed.

I will not tolerate covert advertising. You want to advertise, you pay. That's how we keep this site free for members. If you want to put genuine information in the public domain, please go ahead. But remember, I will be watching...

Scroggs

[georgez]

Scroggs, 'warning' ??!!?? :confused:

Where did this come from? Egnatia Aviation does not use cheap tricks (no need to), and please note that we DO advertise in this forum (keep looking at the top right corner). Some very srtong words in your message ('highly orchestrated' etc) with no apparent reason. Have we touched something here?

If one of our instructors did write here once is not a crime and they are entitled to. Remember that intructors are pilots too, they do have an opinion and they were members and contributors to this forum before they became Egnatia Aviation employes. We will never encourage or prevent one of the company employees to share their personal views.

Go easy on the new guys - let people write about us, that is the only way for the members of this forum to find out what we are all about. :ok:

George
Egnatia Aviation

[gcolyer]

I emailed them for extra information. I did not even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement of my email. I also never recieved a bounce back notification so i am fairly sure my email made it.

[Egnatia Instructor]

gcolyer

All emails that make it do get an automated response, therefore your email must not of made it?

Please feel free to email me direct.

[email protected]

[scroggs]

George there's a fine line between giving information and cultivating trade, and it was crossed on the previous thread. It's a cross we have to bear; whether through simple over-enthusiasm or just a desire to get something for nothing we frequently see posts in which individuals - be they FIs, managers or even students - try to promote their school rather than simply inform. Where this occurs (and even where we simply suspect it's occurring) we will edit or remove the posts. That's what happened last time.

I'm quite happy for school owners or FIs to post helpful information so long as it doesn't fall into the category of advertising, and so long as it's obvious who is posting and what their association with a school is. How do I judge whether it's advertising? Simple - if it appears to promote one school over others, and the poster seems to be associated with the school, I'll treat it with suspicion. I don't give benefit of the doubt.

There is an established core of recognised and overt FIs and school principles who post here to the benefit of all Wannabes, whatever establishment they attend, and this I welcome. Those who wish to encourage trade in the open forums I will not welcome.

Scroggs

[RITZER82]

Well Scrogg all I am asking is for simple advice on my well earned saved money that I am to invest into a flight school in order to fulfill my dream as a commercial pilot and let me assure you I have nothing to do with the school thank you very much, I find your comments to be very un-helpful, thanks.

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

Well I have actually called one of the guys at egnatia and they seem to be very professional and with very high standards. I think that also the price they are offering their program is very good. The outfit looks very good.

As I have posted in another thread I am a little bit worried about the Greek bureaucracy, lack of organisation, corruption. Generally speaking the people that works at the HCAA and who are employed by PASOK.

[scroggs]

Ritzer, I am well aware you have nothing to do with the school. My comments are not aimed at you. Equally, I have no reason to believe that this is anything other than a good school with a desire to give a service that people demand - and make a profit, of course! It's that last bit that tends to get in the way of unbiassed information, unfortunately, but that affects all commercial establishments.

Scroggs

[RITZER82]

does anybody if there is a selection test that you need to pass before you are accepted into the school, thanks.

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

why don't you contact the flightschool?

The speak perfect english and they are more than willing to answere your questions.

[unstable_aloft]

I'd also consider going to Egnatia.

My only concern is having to convert my existing UK license to a Greek license. Is there a flight test for this or just a paper application?

Also, at the end of your CPL/IR, you will hold a Greek license. I know its a full JAA member state, but what are the implications for working in the UK? I presume you must convert the Greek license to a UK CAA issued license, and what is the process for that, another skill test back home or just another paper form to fill in? Will the UK CAA insist on anything else, like doing an IR validation at a UK FTO?

Since most of Egnatia's students are probably going over from the UK, this entire process really does need to be explained on their website so that nobody has any false impressions about whats involved.

--
Unstable_Aloft

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

Its a very easy process. You send in an application to the U.K along with the appropriate fees and you will get U.K CPL/ME/IR.

But the opposite will most likely give you plenty of headaches. UK license to Hellenic CAA. Then you are going to know the meaning of Greek bureaucracy :}

But on the otherhand maybe the school will take care this for you but I don't know. If not....May the force be with you, Luke.

[potkettleblack]

This is a general warning and not necessarily aimed at Egnatia at all. In fact lets refer to them as [insert name of any new flight school start up].

For those of us that have been around a bit longer and perused these boards over the years there have been many sad stories of wannabees who have paid up front and trundled off to lord knows where in search of that ever elusive bargain. I can tell you it doesn't exist. You pay for what you get.

If you go to a school that is "supposedly" selling at rock bottom prices then you need to be asking why? Is it being economical with the truth about what is and isn't included in the price list? Could it be underpaying its staff and therefore running the risk that they might head for the hills leaving you high and dry? Maybe the fleet are so old and battered (thereby more chance of going tech) that their capital costs are so low? Who knows.

Perhaps it is just a simple case of discounting to get the first batch of students through. Well you might be okay IF another batch of wannabees comes through the door whilst you are training (paying more than you of course) so that the bills can get paid since the school will be running at a loss in start up mode if it really is so cheap.

So you need to ask yourself some fundamental questions:-

- do you want to risk your hard earned on a school with no training history, no reputation in the industry, no financial history to ensure its solvency (eg: audited financials)

- who are the owners, who are the instructors, how can you determine what the quality of the training will be with no history and no students to ask?

AND the main one is - will it be around in a years time when you are finishing off your integrated course or will you have to go through the pain and financial head ache of changing schools and converting licences.

[Egnatia Instructor]

Scroggs, if you feel this is advertising, please remove it at your discretion.

Potkettleblack, interesting that you have picked on the Egnatia thread to air your views, however you did state it was not directed at us?

I will answer the concerns you have raised though:

Prices: these are standard prices than are not just an initial offer, we can be cheap due to having our own maintenance, diesel aircraft & we have the pleasure of enjoying the HCAA fees, which are considerably cheaper than the UK CAA. Everything is included in the price except VAT.

I’m an instructor that has re-located from the UK, therefore im being paid quite well thanks, as for who are the owners, x2 Greek guys who did live in the UK, one of which is a pilot, feel free to come visit them, they're nice guys.

Fleet: All aircraft are either BRAND new, or 1-2 years old.

Company: has just invested years of there time and allot of cash, they will be around for a long time.

Basically, a new school will always come under fire as to whether or not they are trustworthy, reliable, honest etc, all schools were once under this scrutiny, time will tell and Egnatia's reputation will be built during this.

Anyone is welcome to visit to see what’s on offer, an open door policy shows we have nothing to hide, so come see?

Dave Hall
FI, Egnatia

[Looooong haul]

I agree with general point that Potkettle is making.

May I suggest everybody going to a new school to Pay As You Go. This might cost a little bit more but in general is the cheapest insurance.

Maybe an idea to think about Egnatia Instructor?

[Mercenary Pilot]

I think Egnatia is getting a bit of unjustly harsh treatment here, I know a couple of large companies involved with them who have only good things to say about the set up. I've seen some of their aircraft before they were delivered (the Brand new Diamonds) and I believe the ground training system is being set-up by a leading UK ATPL ground school provider who will definitely provide a very high standard of knowledge.

Looooong haul's advice is sound but applies to any flight training done anywhere (including the likes of OAT and FTE) as many companies in the aviation industry (especially in this sector) have gone "bump" in the night.

If your interested in going there, do some research, visit the school, speak to the instructors and students, go home (don’t make the decision on the spot) and if your happy...sign up. Make sure you visit a few schools and don’t go for price, go for quality of training.

I would make the point that I don’t know any of the owners, students or staff at Egnatia (and ive never even been to Greece ;) ) im just trying to add a little balance to what I feel is an a bit of an unfair bashing.

[unstable_aloft]

I would agree with some of what potkettleblack has said, however whether a school has been around for a while or is a new setup should not be a deciding factor.

Some schools have been around for years and years, yet I hear and read bad comments about things like their level of customer service, aircraft availability, lack of communication/organisation etc. all the time. So they've been around quite a while and still struggle to get things right!

Also some of these charge inflated prices based on the fact that they paste airline logos all over their brochures and website, and they seem to charge what they want simply because they have been around a while.

(Please note the above are general comments, not aimed at any specific school).


I can think of deffinate advantages of going to a new setup. The owners/operators would have spent a great deal of time and money to get it off the ground, they will probably have enthusiasm and a willingness to get things right by the bucket load. They may also have newer aicraft. Instructors would probably have to be well paid in order to ply them away from their existing jobs into what could be a risky venture?
They will be grateful of your custom, not like some where you have to grateful to them for taking you on.


Never go for an FTO simply because it is cheap. But don't just look at the cheap places and ask "why is it so cheap, whats the catch?".
If a place looks expensive, I have to ask "OK, what extra am I going to get for my money?" and "what are they going to give me/do for me what a cheaper place can't". After all, this is an expensive business we're in, and if you are to pay more you should certainly expect more.


Finally, Mercenary Pilot is right, never take anybody else's word for it, go and visit a place and take time to think things over before taking the plunge.

[captwannabe]

Is it possible to pay for the 0 - fATPL course with an ESCROW account and still avail of the discounted price? Egnatia seem very good value for money, working out at about the same price as a typical modular course but with accom. included. It depends on the sort of discount you get from paying up front really. Remember there is 19% VAT to be added to the price on the website. Is there anyone who has recently trained with Egnatia or is currently over there who would like to share their experiences?

[Egnatia Instructor]

Loooong Haul

Could not agree more, the "pay as you fly scheme" is what we run, if people wish to pay in advance, that is there choice, you will not be penalised for paying as you go.

Dave

[potkettleblack]

Completely agree that pay as you go is great but its only half the battle. Nobody wants the hassle of transferring training records or countries and licencing authorities for that matter should the unthinkable happen.

[Egnatia Instructor]

As already mentioned, in today’s market ANY school is vulnerable to market forces and may go bust, even the big established shiny schools.

We can only offer people what we have got, as can all schools, no business has intentions of going bust, but it can and does happen.

A new school has strong initial financial backing as a contingency should students not come straight away, an established school relies on a steady flow of students, who is more susceptible to financial pressures then should students not walk through the door?

I would say do as people have mentioned, go see whichever school you fancy, talk to staff/students there, and then make your own decision.


Egnatia is here to stay.

Dave
FI, Egnatia

[potkettleblack]

I actually agree with some of your points although not your financial logic which is way off the mark. My experience of start up businesses as a whole is that they are generally under financed. Show me a business where the owners are willing to front up with enough cash to sit on their hands for a reasonable period of time bleeding cash with little or no custom coming in. It just doesn't happen.

On the other hand a mature business is generally in a much stronger position. It has an existing customer base, benefits from word of mouth and possibly repeat business. It should be generating sufficient positive operating cashflows which accumulate over time to yield a healthy bank balance. In dry times this gives them a buffer to pay the overheads and keep the creditors at bay.

I agree that the big shiny schools are just as susceptible to going under as your school. The big difference is that they have an established position in the market and a brand name. Some would say their brand value is synonomous with certain qualities expected in top notch pilots others (generally those who didn't train there) beg to differ. A large portion of their capital outlay has already taken place over the years resulting in a lower annual spend whereas in a startup situation you will appreciate it is a highly cash draining time. The upshot of all this though is that there seems to be a never ending stream of business that are happy to pay their prices and in return enjoy these supposed benefits. Thats where they can be distinguished from a start up.

The point of all this is that with a history of trading it is relatively simple to get "some" comfort (note the some) over the financial security of a business concern. With a start up you don't get that unfortunately even with fuzzy logic.

[Egnatia Instructor]

I understand and agree with several of your points, and do understand where you are coming from with regard to most new businesses, however, I do know the owners of Egnatia well, and know the commitment and financial backing they have, that is where my statement came from.

I guess we will agree to disagree and let time tell? Please feel free to call into Egnatia and visit, you can get a better picture of a company in 2 minutes once there than hours of studying brochures and chatting on forums.

Dave
FI, Egnatia

[ROI1900D]

Hi all,
IAny more info about this school??
Thanks

[Captain N]

Hi
I'm a current student at engnatia, been here just over two weeks now.
Not sure what exactly yo are looking for but i'll give you any info I have about the school.

The school in very new, only started few month back but the structure is very good, instructores are experienced and very good. school staff are very nice and will go out of their way to help.
The syllabus is JAA and we follow UK material so nothing different than Uk schools there!

The school building is newly renovated and very modern, WiFi for student also available.

Fleet is DA40-TDI and DA42 all very modern not more than a few years old, well the DA42 is brand new, just arrived on sunday.

The prices are great, cheapest you would get in Europe. and we have just found out we dont need to pay the VAT as advertised on the website.

location is fantastic, great weather, friendly locals etc

any questions just ask!:)

[GrkPilot]

Do you have any information on the JAA ground school ??

Schedule,start dates, and time needed to pass all 14 exams .. they advertise 6 months Fulltime for everything.

[Captain N]

If you hold a PPL already you can start the ATPL ground school every two months
the next start date is 11th of september, and yes it is about 6months in total excluding two weeks christmas holidays.

[GrkPilot]

Im interested in the 2007 schedule .. pref. January ...
hope they start at the end of the month in January.

How many students are attending the school as we speak? and how many are expected starting Sept?

[Captain N]

GrkPilot
I would suggest you contact the school for information on next years start dates and student numbers.


Noor

[Rapha_BA]

Well,the last few days I've been looking at the Egnatia web site,and I've contacted the academy regarding the ab initio programme!I've thought it was an integrated training,they call it "structured modular"!now my Question is,to anyone who knows by experience,how likely am I to come back to the UK after attending this program,and get a Job in a major UK airline such as BA,been myself a low hour cadet from a brand new academy that they probally dont know much about and finaly,from a "structured modular" background??Honestly I quitte like what I saw on the site,new aircraft,good facilities,weather is fine as I've been to Greece before and the financial outlay is really atractive,but should I leave my job as an Cabin Crew for British Airways,leaving all the benefits we have knowing that after the 18 months I'll strugle to get a job because is written "modular.." in my cv,plus low hours,and not the"OAT" logo in my performance reports??do you think the airlines here will consider the fact that I'll finish my modular training at the same pace and consistence of an integrated course elsewhere?

[Egnatia Instructor]

Classic modular Vs Integrated question that has been beaten to death on PPRuNe for many years?

Difficult to answer anyone’s fears on this, guess it's down to personal preference? If you do the course integrated does this mean you are guaranteed a job?

Good luck with your decision.

EI

[rogueflyer01]

If you do the course integrated does this mean you are guaranteed a job?

Nope. Not even in the days of the BA cadet were you guaranteed a job. Maybe the chances of you getting a job if you follow the integrated path is greater than modular but this is open to much debate. Do your own research.

Anyway, how long does it take to complete your 0-fatpl course? and i have noticed there is no MCC offered? so i will have to complete this once i get back to the uk if i choose to attend....

:ok:

[aftab]

hi, how difficult would it be to get a jet job in the UK with the likes of ryanair or easyjet after graduating in greece?? also where would you do your MCC and type is you had to? would there be a need of conversion? would airlines look less favourably at a candidate who got his license in greece?? I have looked into oxford and done my assessment there and really liked it, but as your all aware it is very expensive and i dont wnt to strain myself with such a substantial loan and possibly having to take a further loan for a type. thanks
thanks

[Captain N]

Hello Aftab
I had a very similar delima like urce I've been to oxford and liked it very much but i decided to come to egnatia instead.
As regards to the licence you get, its jus as good as a UK becasue its a JAA, some airlines might look down at you just because they dont know the school e.g. the likes of BA
but i'm sure egnatia will start to build up its reputation, even though it is a new school it has few IR,CPL students who will finish within the next few months and they can give the airlines an idea of how good egnatia is!

If you dont aim too high, I mean aim for the likes of easy jet or ryanair for your first F/O job, what you can do is apply to the likes of PARC aviation or www.bfsaa.se (http://javascript<b></b>:ol('http://www.bfsaa.se');) or even CTC for your MCC and then if you do well they will help you get an interview so they get your Type rating business;)

good luck whatever you decide to do.:ok:

Noor

[Egnatia Instructor]

You can convert the HCAA license to a UK issued one should you wish to with ease.


http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1136.PDF (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1136.PDF)

EI

[Ballistic]

Captain N,

In one of your earlier post you mentioned that you don't have to pay VAT. Can you expand on this? Are you telling me that I can do the course for £30K including accommodation?

[Captain N]

yes you can do 0 to fATPL for £30k including accomodation

IF you choose to do only part of your training then VAT applies.

good luck;)

[FougaMagister]

Ballistic: there are some European countries (Denmark, Greece, Spain come to mind) where flight training is not subject to VAT. Unfortunately, the UK is not one of them :* !

Cheers :cool:

[aftab]

would there be a need of conversion? would airlines look less favourably at a candidate who got his license in greece??

[Egnatia Instructor]

No, a conversion is not needed, you would be issued a JAA license by the HCAA, I put that link on because alot of people keep asking.

EI

[Ballistic]

Just a note to everyone , 207 of the 236 hours is done on a single engine. A lot of other providers give in the region of 60 hours on multi (flight and Sim) not including an MCC.

[Egnatia Instructor]

Well, im a PPL instructor, so therefore I’m not sure what hours are done on what as you go onto the commercial side, however, using my math skills, that amounts to 29 hours multi time?

Now the 60 hours you mention are twin & sim, that sounds correct to me also, how many are twin though? Im guessing about 25-30, therefore 30 ish are sim? All our hours are on an aircraft.

So, the decision is what people prefer, aircraft or sim, people will have a preference im sure? Seems reasonable to me....

EI

[ACIDO]

yes you can do 0 to fATPL for £30k including accomodation

IF you choose to do only part of your training then VAT applies.

good luck;)

For me it's not clear: Egnatia wEbsite says AB INITIO ATPL costs € 38.830, but also says: "Please note that the above prices are subject to change and do not include VAT @ 19%". That means that VAT must be added and, then, the real price is € 46.207.
Isn't it?

Thanx
Bye

ACIDO

[rogueflyer01]

Yeah they need to update their website....

No Vat is charged as i understand if you complete the 0-fatpl with them...send them a e-mail and they will confirm it..:ok: .... they do intend to raise the price by 10%, so you will save 9% rather than 19% :uhoh:

[pilot-320]

Good afternoon to everyone here from the sunny Greece.
First of all i would like to introduce myself with honesty as from i have read many doubts exist about who is who and what their role at EGNATIA AVIATION TRAINING is. So my name for your convenience is VIC and yes i am a male. Im doing my ATPL ground at the moment with EGNATIA after finishing my superb hourbuilding around the beautiful and too HOT greek islands.
Many of you are wondering about prices rather than quality at first... i did the same as i want to be honest as i said. After spending a fair amount of money for gaining my PPL in the UK (exeptionally good quality) i was in doubt about my future as all those well-known 'pilot friendly' banks and managers were just unable to help me... im poor and i like it at least at the end of my licenses and training like most of us who are doing the same ill be saying that i have earned them with many sacrifies. Now for everyone like me comes the point of the DECISION MAKING! Honestly what are we looking for? less expensive QUALITY, flexible and secure training!! After managing to do my own extensive research i had the opportunity to meet with both the EGNATIA'S director and ask for as much info as i could.... this conversation was something unusual to my eyes as u dont expect the directors answering your questions. By the way till now and since i have been here these two gentlemen are doing the same and always willing to help. That confirms the EGNATIA'S flight instructor posts about an open doors company and always welcoming questions complains and all that by having a discussions with the directors and instructors accompanied by a COLD FRAPPE coffee. ( seriously u need it).
After extending my writing and sorry if u find it boring, im moving on with my personal experiences good and bad at EGNATIA. A very modern and friendly environment, for me that is important as during our aviation training apart from our home-study conditions which we can modify we need a school fully equipped and with always ready to help instructors. Internet access is unlimited with WI FI (if im right ) technology. Anyway i bring my laptop and im always connected or i use the school's pcs. The library is there to assist and can be used anytime with a very flexible book borrowing system. Now comes my first complaint as i would like the school to expand the library even more. A fter a conversation with our HoT ( HEAD OF TRAINING) DR SMITH he reassured me that orders for more books and tapes have been made and he is willing to ask the students for more ideas or prefferences fro this. A relaxation area with nice and comfy sofas accompanied by a cafe area and a huge screen tv is there for those lovely moments of pilots conversations and of course for times we need or want to watch our favourite programme or something avition related. trust me theres many of them at the school as well as magazines!!
Moving to the apron oohh yes the apron every future pilot's favourite word ( assuming that the old ones are bored of it).Theres four DIAMOND DA-40 ( with more to come) and the stunner EGNA.. thats the twin. Very clean well equipped , maintained and pretty new aircraft. rosteringwise now there is so much flexibility that i have managed to visit every single greek island in 28 days. an advantage is that with prior notice to the school it can be arranged to keep an a/c overnight to wherever u go ( usually weekends). The magic comes as LGKV is an international one and many times it happens to line up before or worst behind an AIRBUS 330 or a boeing 767. the reason for sayin behind is worst is not the wake turbulence but just the jealousy!! ( thats why we are here though , to achieve a right hand seat in one of those).
Instructionwise now our Hot dr Smith is well known very friendly and after spending a week in the classroom with him i achieved a 90% score on the HPL consolidation paper. ( CATS ATPL GUIDES, CATS ground instructors and new methodology which is a EGNATIA-CATS combination of ideas).The in-house course is full time 9:00 - 17:00 everyday and its being done by projection explanations notes and discussions. Till now very happy with the ground school and a proof to myself is my progress. Our CFI chief flying instructor mr GEORGE GEORGIOU has so much experience as the nickname i gave him was the ' moving library'. He is strict and if the examiners expectations with a number is 7 his its 11!! Thats exactly what u need to become a competent pilot. He is straightforward that after flying with you he will tell u tha t u either CAN or CANNOT be a pilot. From my point of view this is excellent.I know situations where the school had to make decisions about pilots ( stay or not stay ). Theres no aptitude testing for us prior joining as many big schools do but if in doubt you wont stay. As i have seen this happening reassures me for the quality of the training. Guys and Girls lets be realistic not everyone can be a pilot and as the school at the moment needs to build up their image and concerning about their product result which is us the pilots they wont let anyone without the abilities to continue just for them to make money.
The reason fro the school being so cheap has been expalined from mr Hall in another reply and i hope its been understood!
Coming now to the rest of the staff the rest of the instructors are well trained very friendly and i cannot give a certain opinion about their flying as it had never happened for me to fly with one of them. The admin staff now are also friendly persons always there for us and they wont say no to things like even taking us to the supermarket. Responsible for our flight plans roster and slots they do all the boring things for us and always smiling! With Maxine the admin manager with can discuss any proble u may have and it will be resolved ASAP. STEPHANOS (MR PC EXPERT our it manager) and christina at the reception will handle our 'pilots' strange characters with patience and they will do their best to accomodate us cheer us up and arrange our fuel and general declerations for when going away!
Thw accomodation now it has nothing to do with halls of residence and it can be a single room in apartments or shared. here now i ask for help on how to submit some fotos of my room ( let me tidy up first) so u can see how it looks like.
finishing off now i have to say again that noone asked me to write this and i am not EGNATIA'S member os staff or instructor!! U are welcome to come see the school talk with us and have some fun too !! why not? Even though i have tried to write a lot i know i have missed many things so do not hesitate to ask and when able i will reply. Im even willing to send pics from oour trips and way of living to ur emails. Ask me and u will get!!!
Thanks for reading this report to all of u and to those who are already flying i wish the best LANDINGS and to everyone good luck with your future!! Im happy with EGNATIA and im confident that i will be till the end!

P.S: i forgot to say that people from major airlines and not have been around checking the school and doing some research. Dont know what that might mean but if i hear smth i will pass the message!!!

GOOD DAY:ok:

[pilot-320]

Well,the last few days I've been looking at the Egnatia web site,and I've contacted the academy regarding the ab initio programme!I've thought it was an integrated training,they call it "structured modular"!now my Question is,to anyone who knows by experience,how likely am I to come back to the UK after attending this program,and get a Job in a major UK airline such as BA,been myself a low hour cadet from a brand new academy that they probally dont know much about and finaly,from a "structured modular" background??Honestly I quitte like what I saw on the site,new aircraft,good facilities,weather is fine as I've been to Greece before and the financial outlay is really atractive,but should I leave my job as an Cabin Crew for British Airways,leaving all the benefits we have knowing that after the 18 months I'll strugle to get a job because is written "modular.." in my cv,plus low hours,and not the"OAT" logo in my performance reports??do you think the airlines here will consider the fact that I'll finish my modular training at the same pace and consistence of an integrated course elsewhere?
Totally agree with u . I have to say though that i used to work for BA and i left to continue my training. its better considering starting ur training soon rather than leave my job or not. Secondly do u have something written saying that when u finish ur training to BA'S favourite lets say school ( dont know which one) they will give the right seat? If yes let me know and im going back to ba 100%. i agree with ur points 100% but lets be realistic... 59 people currently on the pool? im sure u know the situation at ba!! plus u still hold an advantage... u have been working for them and u meet their personality and attitude standards!!! give them a reference from any school and ur ground results finely done at an average of 90% pass the sim check and why not? in aviation u keep on training for life and BA will bring u to their standards dont worry about it!! ASK A BA cpt!! by the way where a re u based? EGLL OR EGKK? IF IN LONDON!! pvt me!! ciao

[georgez]

As an Egnatia Aviation director I am in a position to inform you that there is no VAT on any 'professional ' training in Greece. This is country regulation and not an Egnatia special aranagement with the tax authorities (we managed to be included in the correct list!!). There are some charges that we are now aware of, and combined with the fuel and instructor rates increased cost, they are forcing us to increase our prices soom. At presnt these charges are absorbed by the company. Our prices will still remain very low and well below the cost if VAT was added at the end.

We will of course honour the prices given to enrolled students - so be quick!

Professional training is considered any of the ATPL modules, including the PPL if the student continues the training so it becomes an ATPL module.

The website has not yet been updated for 2 reasons - firstly we also need to update the rest of the sales and school material (they take longer than the web) and secondly we are still discussing the costs in some of the training packages we have recently introduced such as the FI course and conversions to JAA.

I do appreciate the need to update the web site with this information quickly. We always read with interest all your comments and discussions (we treat it as feed back) so please keep posting. This is a very usefull forum for all of us.

I hope the above helps. Give us a call or visit if you want to discuss anything or for further information.

Happy landings!!!!! :D

George Zografakis
Director

www.egnatia-aviation.com (http://www.egnatia-aviation.com)

[rogueflyer01]

P.S: i forgot to say that people from major airlines and not have been around checking the school and doing some research. Dont know what that might mean but if i hear smth i will pass the message!!!

Sounds good, is it possible to say which airlines? georgez, pilot320?

[pilot-320]

I am at the same position as anyone seeking a future having the ability to fly for the airlines. I did say in my post about egnati that i wanted to be honest so i feel like is too soon to disclose any info about the visiting airlines unless smth is for sure guys. I am sure the directors will respond at some point with more info but i can only say what i see feel and happens. hope u understand the reasons!!!
People at the school have seen my post and all said that there will be a lot of critisism about what i say as everything is GOOD. PPRUNE is here to let us discuss things good and bad and democratically to say our opinions and share them. up until now that is what is happening to me and i feel free to write it!!! when a complain arrise be sure i will be here with strong critisism about EGNATIA. im clean and clear!!
By now noone has complained about OAT'S Will posts at a well known magazine. Even though really good thats something that i used to call advertising!! Now having the chance to be a member of a flying traing organization i can understand Will and his way of writing things. He is got a job with an airline as far as i know and if at the end i will get a job as a graduate from EGNATIA why blame them?

BE SURE I WILL SAY ANYTHING GOOD OR BAD!!!

I WANT TO HELP AND I WANT TO BE DOING THAT FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!! :O ! ANY COMMENTS ARE MORE THAN WELCOME AND I WILL BE BACK WITH AN ANSWER!!

VIC

[captainyonder]

I'm very seriously considering going to Egnatia for my CPL/IR. What is the general demographic of students? It seems to me that they have a very heavy emphasis on students from the UK. I'm just wondering what the share apartments are like and the social life (albeit very limited during training!). Although this probably seems trivial this is a major factor in my decision making process as obviously coming down to Greece for six months is a major step away from friends and family!

Also during the hours building phase is it possible to take an aircraft away from base for a few days at a time to do a tour maybe to some of the neighbouring contries?

[EpsilonVaz]

Hi there,

At the moment I'm doing the 0-ATPL course at Egnatia, I'm currently doing the first stage of the ATPL Ground School.

Most of the students here generally come from the UK or Greece (I'm from London). The Head of Training is from the UK and the Instructors are a mixture of English and Greek.

The shared accomodation here is comfortable, it's basically a two bedroom flat. Keramoti (where we live) is just down the road from the airport and has some bars and a number of reseraunts. In the summer it gets quite busy with English and German tourists and there are a lot of English who come through Keramoti to go to Thassos Island. In winter it gets quiet but the bars and resteraunts are still open. Everyone at the school is social and we all go out to dinner/lunch/bar/Thassos often. It's always a good laugh! For example, on friday we flew to Zante for the night and came back in the morning :}. The cost of living is very cheap here.
Everyone is in the same situation because they've had to come away from home for some time. The locals have gotten to know us aswell and so it's good fun.

Hope to see you in Greece!

Varun

[pilot-320]

Also during the hours building phase is it possible to take an aircraft away from base for a few days at a time to do a tour maybe to some of the neighbouring contries?


CAPTAINYONDER hello matey! You have raised some good questions here and i will answer from my experience. Depending on our ages us people usually worry for different things... i dont know ur age but by saying it worries u the demografic of the school and leaving friends and family behind i can guess. Listen it is always fine and amzing when people sacrify things for some periods to achieve their goals! Six months sounds like a very long time but since u start ur ATPL ground for example u'll be begging for more time! social life here in Greece is well known to be variable due to the tourists and with variety due to the Greek culture. That happens all year round and us the students here at the school gathering together and always trying to find new and more things to do!! ( always as a team) no matter the background colour or age we are alla here for the same reasons and we need friends.. mind now that friendships like this will remain for the rest of ur life and thats exceptionally good!! If not used to that though by meeting new cultures characters and way of living will broaden ur mind u will be more experienced and as for ur future it will help to acclimatize anywhere as evey pilot;s life depends on that! give it a go u wont lose anything if u come here in greece south africa new zealand or america u will gain the same experience.
About EGNATIA we are mixture of english . other europeans middle easterns greeks and many more!! i have never faced a situation of a problem or conflict ! everyone is happy and everyone is willing to meet and make new friends.
About letting u go abroad the answer it's simply a NO. It was one of my queries when asked about the school before joining and i received a very clear answer.. mainly it has to do with security and with crossiing boundaries! its everything more clear to me now as i understood the procedures we need to follow prior leaving the country with a private aircraft. Anyway i guess that u can send an email to the directors and they will expalin more analytically for u! Bear in mind though that greece has smth about 50 airports we can use and some of them with just Amazing scenery!!! it will be enough to satisfy even the more demanding person!! i say again that i can show u photos from my personal gallery and i can send via email!! at the same time and as im not a pc expert i found out how to post some fotos here by usin g some foto hosting websites. I will do my best to achieve that in the next few days!!!

TAKE CARE MY FRIEND AND GOOD LUCK WITH UR DECISIONS AND :D FUTURE!!

VIC

[pilot-320]

FINALS FOR RWY 34R AT SANTORINI ! A very nice island with a volcanoe in which i flew above..:= http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m313/PILOT777ER/PICT1301.jpg
Keramoti is the village we stay and this one of the blocks of the apartments. http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m313/PILOT777ER/2006_07_08003.jpg
4 MILES BEACH havent meassured though!!! Ill try to run sometime and ill tell u exactly the length!! Its really nice though:confused: http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m313/PILOT777ER/PICT1428.jpg
Me and Georgie at 6000ft on LMO 1E ARRIVAL slightly deviated from course for sightseeing purposes simulating the VOR/DME approach for RWY 23L at LGKV.
To your right ladies and gentlemen u can see Thassos island!!! for those seating to the left of the palne due to mass and balance DONT MOVE... U can instead check the picture!!!
thanks for listening and this was ur captain:rolleyes: http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m313/PILOT777ER/IMG_5706.jpg
hey the HELLENIC AIR FORCE APPROACH PLATES BOOKLET OR MAIP it was a very kind gift from our friends and enemies controllers at LGKV!! Thank you sirs and madames!!!:ok:
Very efficient with glass cockpit ( GARMIN 1000) relatively easy to fly but a bit slow..... http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m313/PILOT777ER/IMG_5441.jpg

A picture from my favourite destination during my hourbuilding.. The island of SANTORINI!! A night stop there was everything i needed prior to my ATPL studying!! I will definitely go there again!! thanks for ur patience having me writing and showing experiences but these are happy moments for me and i really wish from deep inside me to everyone to achieve your goals and for the wannabe pilots a very bright future!!!!:O :ok: http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m313/PILOT777ER/PICT1367.jpg

[pilot-320]

Today i received a call from a friend of mine (he is doing his IR here ) and he told me that he has been through at the final stage of the AEGEAN AIRLINES selection process. Good news for him and for us as if he gets the job i will be getiing some jumpseats i hope so.....

The reason for writing that is not cause i want to praise him but i will get more info about what is going on recruitmentwise here in Greece at the moment and im willing to inform!!


dont complain please i do know that im out of the subjsect but i just felt like saying it!!


GREETING TO EVERYONE AND KEEP HAVING FUN!!!!!:O

[captainyonder]

Thanks for your help and advice guys. Will be calling to school tomorrow to make preparations for coming out there towards the end of this month.

[pilot-320]

Hello CAPTAINYONDER! Glad taht u are doing some research about EGNATIA too. This will help people find out more about the FTOS outside the UK . Hope u will post ur initial opinion and if anything concerning u share it with us!! Us the current students here are interested too to know more ...

Take care and u never know we might meet eachother soon!!

:O

[rogueflyer01]

Nice pics p320, have you got any pics of inside of the apartments?

+RF

[pilot-320]

I do have some pics of the apartments.. i will post one in a nother thread even though a pic of a room has nothing to do with aviation and i dont really want to make pprune instead of a aviation forum smth like an estate agency hahahaah


u are welcome to leave a email address and i will send u one .. not a problem mate!!

hope u understand !! ciao:D

[captainyonder]

Well I've made my decision and I'm starting at Egnatia aviation on the 6th of November. Looking forward to seeing some of you out there!! Thanks for all your help in the decision making progress guys.

[pilot-320]

See you then mate!!! us the students we will be waiting for u at the airport to pick u up and show u around!!!


See you soon!!!:D


VIC

[wbryce]

Just learned of Egnatia aviation! Pricing looks fine...infact their whole package looks fine! especially with the sun!

My plan was to complete ATPL theory full time over here in the UK and jet off to Riverside in the US and do their proficiency package but Egnatias package and pricing is certainly one thing to consider!

Can anyone tell me what their ground school process is like? i.e. books, material, instructors, phases (2 modules or 3?) and class room times etc!

p.s. I have 120hrs TT, class 1 with PPL+night so it wouldn't be the full 0 to atpl course, it would be a more structured modular course! (would this exempt me from 19% tax?)

[pilot-320]

Hello Wbryce!!

I have posted details about the gorund school here at EGNATIA but i will give u more information .

I am doing my ATPL GROUND at the moment here and we are using CATS ( Cranfield Aviation Training) books and materials. Ground training consists of 3 phases and no 2. The instructors ( ground) are all English and come from CATS. At the moment dr Stuart Smith ( our head of training) is teaching two subjects of the first phase every day from 9:00 till 17:00. For the first 5 weeks is all classroom with the sixth week being a stydu week and seventh a consolidation! After that phase one exams chrismtas holidays and moving on with recharged batteries to phase 2! It is intensive and i find the whole process helpful.

Although full time if lets say u are doing your hourbuilding like i do ( 15 hours left) you can use the weekends for some relaxation up in the skies !!

Any more questions ?

TAKE CARE!!!!

VIC:ok:

[wbryce]

Thanks for that info mate!

Im making a financial plan for this new route I have in my head...could you give me an idea on living expenses in Greece? and If exam/test fees are included in Egnatia's prices! :)

I'm hoping I can complete my hour building in a twin to gain more ME experience so I hope I can do my MEP rating first (subject to meeting requirements of course) with around 30hrs ME time (thats if the ac is available for solo hire, i dont know what insurance restrictions may be in place).

[pilot-320]

Everything depends on the way u are palnning to live! Accomodation , exam fees and transportation are included in Egnatia's price. All the apartments are equipped with kitchens and everything needed for self cooking. With this route u can expect something about 300 euros per month expenses. the rest are obvious: if u want clubbing and night life u can add roughly 200 euros a month!! all are rough figures from my experience!

as for the twin it can be hired but i dont really know how many MEP hours u need in advance.. i can ask for u or u can try sending them an email or call them directly!!

hope that helps!! check ur PM please matey!:ok:

[wbryce]

Just booked flights to go over and see Egnatia in the second week of November, will let yous know how it goes!

P.S. Anyone considering visiting them my findings where BA to SKG (Thessaloniki) and bus to Kavala/Keramoti (2hrs) as the easiest options or someone from the school may come and pick you up! I tried for a direct flight to Kavala but its only weekly charter flights by Thomson and Exel.

[matt85]

Hello.

Im currently giving serious thought to having a look at Egnatia as the value for money looks unbelievable but I still have a few questions and if anybody would be kind enough to answer them it would be most appreciated

I will of course also give Egnatia themselves a ring for the official line but if anybody has any slightly more impartial views to express on the more subjective questions I would really welcome them. No particular order, here goes...

1. In the full £30k what other expenses other than living are involved as medical, CAA fees, skills tests all seem to be covered? It seems too cheap!
2. I presume you require a Class 1 before you start the 0 to fATPL and notice it is included. How is this not insignificant cost reimbursed when you enrole?
3. The quality/experience of instructors/pass rates for skills tests/groundschool?
4. Quality of acommodation (sp) / Social life?
5. Is the price for 0 to fATPL on the website still accurate at £29,465 and is it correct that VAT is not charged as per the website states?
6. Is pay as you go flying available at the same rate as paying upfront (i.e you still only pay £30k in all)?
7. How easy (expensive) is it to convert your licence(s) to UK versions and does the fact that it is completed solely in Greece detract anything from the value over a British FTO in the eyes of potential employers?
8. How have previous (although admittedly so far limited) ex-students faired in gaining the elusive first jobs?
9 And finally, if there is anything else that you feel may be of relevance please tell me!

Much obliged as ever.

Cheers,

Matt.

[rogueflyer01]

p320 was kind enough to send me this pic of inside one of the apartments..

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k98/rogueflyer01/PILOTSTRIPS080.jpg

[rogueflyer01]

And...

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k98/rogueflyer01/IMG_5566.jpg

[pilot-320]

1. In the full £30k what other expenses other than living are involved as medical, CAA fees, skills tests all seem to be covered? It seems too cheap!
2. I presume you require a Class 1 before you start the 0 to fATPL and notice it is included. How is this not insignificant cost reimbursed when you enrole?
3. The quality/experience of instructors/pass rates for skills tests/groundschool?
4. Quality of acommodation (sp) / Social life?
5. Is the price for 0 to fATPL on the website still accurate at £29,465 and is it correct that VAT is not charged as per the website states?
6. Is pay as you go flying available at the same rate as paying upfront (i.e you still only pay £30k in all)?
7. How easy (expensive) is it to convert your licence(s) to UK versions and does the fact that it is completed solely in Greece detract anything from the value over a British FTO in the eyes of potential employers?
8. How have previous (although admittedly so far limited) ex-students faired in gaining the elusive first jobs?
9 And finally, if there is anything else that you feel may be of relevance please tell me!

Hello to everyone!!!

ROQUEFLYER THANKS FOR THE REPPLY MATE !! even though mr scroggs will be angry but hopefully we will not be punished from him! As you know we are not allowed to post fotos here and i asked for his permission prior to sending!! Lets see!:oh:

Here are the questions that MATT85 asked and even though some of them have been answered i have no problem writing some more about EGNATIA.

Q1) As far as i know no other costs or hidden costs are involved. Everything is included thats confirmed but i have to mention that if you wont inish your course at the time given then you have to pay the extra accomodation! thats of course only if its your fault! If for example the weather doesnt help or an a/c is u/s then EGNATIA will cover tha extra accomodation! here i would like to answer question 2 too. The first class medical here in Greece costs a lot less than in the UK and is coplimentary so i would suggest we dont ask why!! it is like that they offer it so u just have to accept it!
Q3) Instructors mainly come from the UK and all of them are fully qualified and most of them unrestricted too. They use UK standards and most of them have previous work experience in the UK .At the moment every single pilot has passed their skills tests first time and just yesterday two friends of mine completed one of them the CPL and the other IR test succesfully!! Of course they have had their ATPL GROUND EXAMS as the school's first bunch of of theory students is us (including me). After the end of November i will be able to post the pass rates on that!!
Q4) The quality of accomodation has been shown with some photos as you can see and me personally i do really enjoy my living here. Social life is really good ... abit quiet now as its winter time but that doesnt mean theres no things to do!! We the srudents are always organizing parties and social meetings!
Q5) It is actually very accurate at the moment that is waht is happening. Studying in Greece means that u can avoid the vat!! please check the post from georgez he is one of the direstors.
Q6) Pay as you fly it is available! thats what i use and yes its the same rates! the school encouraging this method as well!
Q7) This is a question asked many many times all over EUROPE! As an english airline employer or english citizen you will be able to change your licence anytime! If it looks good now i have to say that it depends! Theres an interview to pass and some airlines require an integrated course to offer you a job as a low hours pilot.. Simply i wont apply there for my first job! I have a friend who did his 0-ATPL with FTE and he has been issued with a spanish licence, now he is instructing in the UK . I hope that helps a bit!
Q8) One of the ex-students just passed every stage of the AEGEAN AIRLINES interview here in Greece and soon we will know the final result! The school is too new to have statistics yet.. hopefully in the near future we will be able to share our experiences with you..
Q9) I have to say that after all the doubts about egnatia before joining i can now say that 'cheap' training doesnt immediatelly means low quality. I love what im doing and i trully believe that at the end of the story it is going to be my skills which going to help me find a job! I hate promises that are not met in the end and egnatia never promised me a job after graduation! Although as i said i have seen and heard some airlines interested in some kind of cooperations.

I hope i helped and wish you luck with your final decision!! whatever it is make sure you enjoy and have fun!!:O :ok:

[scroggs]

mr scroggs will be angry but hopefully we will not be punished from him! As you know we are not allowed to post fotos here

As far as I know, there's no rule that says you can't post photos. People can elect for photos not to be displayed (it's an option in your Control Panel), and I don't want the forum inundated with pictures - and I'd be grateful if they're not too large - but I don't mind you posting them. Just don't let them detract from the purpose of this thread.

Scroggs

[pilot-320]

Thanks for the repply mr scroggs!


Take care!:O

[matt85]

Hello.

pilot-320 thanks very much for answering my questions. Its still looking impressive and I shall ring the school first thing to arrange a trip over there.

Any other views/experiences of/with Egnatia obviously still welcome.

Cheers,

Matt

[pilot-320]

Hello Matt85!

Im glad that i could answer your questions! Of course by ringing the school and even better arranging a visit will be a more in depth research about it! I can only express my own experiences and opinions..

Hope to see you soon and we might be able to have a face to face chat not only with me but with other students too!

Take care and if anything arises do not hesitate whenever able im replying and i bet other students will do !:ok:

[Seagull61]

Just wondering is there are any wannabees who are on the DL ATPL course? On the website it isn`t clear how the course is structured so I was wondering how it is scheduled throughout the calendar year...is the DL part first (192 days I believe) and then is it a case of goin over there and doing all the ratings?
Also any info on enrolment would be good.
Thanks

[pilot-320]

Hello seagull61

The distance learning theory here at Egnatia follows the Cranfield aviation school system. It is as normal homestudy split in 3 phases and at each phase the distance learners join the full time ones for a consolidation week.I am doing it full time so not really sure about the schedule . I suggest you send an email directly to the school and they will send you back a full programme.
The enrolnment its a simple application form with no prior to join testing as i said to my other post. You will be screened during your course though. As far as i know you will have to pay a small amount as a deposit and for the application processing. Again an email to them will answer all of your questions. I heard that the site its being updated and it will be finished very soon.

I hope i helped a bit and wish you good luck and patience during your decision making!! :D

[pilot-320]

I just learned today that egnatia will be at the professional pilot training show( seminar) at London Heathrow in Novemeber. Unfortunately us the students will not be able to attend due to the exams but it will be a very good chance for everyone to meet these guys there. I met them there last year and i truly believe that a face to face conversation always helps to reach your decision!
It is an advise as many schools and interesting new stuff will be there too! Shame im going to miss it but for those whith some spare time i do reccomend it, it helped me a lot last year and im really glad UK as a forerunner in the aviation organizing shows like this one!

If you go enjoy and make sure you get as much info as you can (not only leaflets) make sure you speak to people !
:ok:

[JediDude]

I have been considering Egnatia for my flight training but have a few questions....

I would be intending on moving over there with my wife and 2 kids. I understand that family accomodation is available. What is this like and what is the local area like for families?

Would we still be eligible for our usual child/family benefits from the good old UK governement whilst in Greece?

Is there anybody who is actually out there just now with family who can give me some advice on this?

Cheers

Chris

[GrkPilot]

anyone converting their FAA CPL/IR at egnatia??

[Slow Progress]

I can't seem to find Egnatia College as an appoved training organisation in CAP682.

How often does the document get updated??

Slow Progress

[delmouzos]

Dear Slow Progress

CAP682 includes Approved FTOs obtained UK-CAA approval. Egnatia Aviation is a Greek Based FTO registered in Greece. The reg. No is GR-FTO-006. Greece is fully recognised and an active member of JAA since 2004. Licences issued by the "Hellenic" Civil Aviation Authority (HCAA) are full JAA licences and have the same value as any other JAA license.

Dimitris Lymperakis
Airside Operations Director
Egnatia Aviation

[Slow Progress]

Dimitris,

Thanks for taking the time to clarify.

Rgds

Slow Progress

[Slow Progress]

Also one other thing,

Does Egnatia Flying College have any links with uk Banks to provide funding for the 0 - FATPL.

Probably going to struggle to get a secured loan as I don't have a property.

Any Ideas??

Rgds

Slow Progress

[wbryce]

Also one other thing,

Does Egnatia Flying College have any links with uk Banks to provide funding for the 0 - FATPL.

Probably going to struggle to get a secured loan as I don't have a property.

Any Ideas??

Rgds

Slow Progress


Plan your course of action, if your going to struggle for an unsecured loan then why not work for a little while and save up some cash? then apply for a CDL and/or small unsecured loan.

Remember, spending cash will most likely not stop after trainings completed...too many operators now want TR's/bonding schemes (another 20k) or FI rating (another 5-6k).

Remember, monthly repayments for normal bank loans starts straight away so if your training for your fATPL you must factor in a great deal of redundancy for non payments over a large period of time especially since employment straight after training is very rarely achieved.

[FougaMagister]

Interesting thread. Egnatia Flying College seems to be following a similar course to a US FTO I attended at the start of my modular flight training a few years ago. For instance, starting with a brand new fleet of high-tech training aircraft, spending on proper facilities and accommodation, being based at a proper commercial airport (training in a commercial environment, mixing it with airline traffic and using procedures specific to commercial airports from the outset does pay dividends later on), recruiting ground and flight instructors from European "client" countries, etc.

It is also a fact that a "start-up" is always more willing to go the extra mile to accommodate the requirements of its students, as opposed to some long-established FTOs sometimes resting on their laurels a bit too much...

Of course, before commiting the amount of money we are talking about, one should always ask all relevant questions, ask for advice and eventually visit the "finalist" FTOs (and ask more questions), but Egnatia seems to be offering an interesting alternative to notoriously overpriced UK-based FTOs - and even to the popular Spanish option.

In other words, if I was to start flight training now (not that I would want to do it all over again), I would definitely consider Egnatia Fying College.

Cheers :cool:

P.S.: also, Kevala looks much better as a training environment than the Midlands in winter...

[gmac1977]

Hello all,
Very interesting to see how much interest there is on egnatia. for a first time user of pprune it is facinating to read such passionate comments from registered members, moderators and spectators alike. It considates how seriously the aviation industry is taken by so many individual's today.

For anyone that is interested, I have just gained a JAA licence in Greece at Egnatia and as I have heard so much of pprune over the past weeks that i felt compelled to register and leave some comments about my findings.I hope they may be of use to any one considering flight traing in the near future.

I am, as so many are, an aspiring pilot, who one day hopes to be in a position to apply for FO positions within the air transport sector, whether it be with national carriers or corperate operators.

I had spent years perusing through the back pages of several popular flying magazines, I had also sent emails to many FTO's to digest their set-up's and prices and I too had been caught short of a decision as to how,where and why.

I trust you will treat my following comments as gospel and can only ask you to appreciate that I have taken time to orchestrate this post to be as neutral as possible with respect to the sensitivity linked with members scepticism regarding such subscribed posts.

Here we go!

The school is based in an international airport (LGKV, 3000m runways) Taxying out to holding points/ landing in front of heavy jets (73's,320's & 330's) is an experience dreams are made of. Listening to the pro's mess up a position report or wrongly repeat taxi instructions only reinforces the realisation that the big boys are meer mortals like us.

Flight/ground training is provided by an experienced team of career instructors whilst progress checks are frequently carried out by the 5000 hour CFI. All have become very good friends as well as respected peers.

The fleet of aircraft are all VFR/IFR diamonds(DA40 & DA42). They speak for themselves.

The school itself is housed adjacent to the main terminal and is in very good order complete with rest areas, kitchen,vending machine's and wi'fi connection as well as the usual facilities you would expect.

Respectable complex style accommodation was provided in an area called Keramoti which is a coastal village town 15 minutes drive from the airport. A beach,numerous restaraunts and bars are within a 5 minute walk as well as a half hour ferry ride to the island of thassos.

A company vehicle runs a daily shuttle service at 0815am although some students hired cars.

The airspace in Greece is wide open for GA traffic. I personally visited several Islands during my training and concluded my course by flying myself to Thessaloniki international (2nd busiest in Greece) for my return journey back to the UK.

Happy day's

Gmac:)

[campbell83]

Just to reiterate what Slow Progress said, does anyone know if Egnatia have any deals set up with the banks like what HSBC did, if not anything in the pipeline??? The HSBC shattered my dreams a few years ago when they stopped the Pro. Studies loan. I could never give up work to do it unless you could defer the loan until after 6 months after the course ends.

[aftab]

Hi, I have been reading the Egnatia thread and am liking the school however I would hopefully be making a personal visit in the near future. I have a few questions that some of you guys may have answers to. Roughly how long does it take to complete the full 0-(frozen) ATPL course?
Is the course likely to increase in price in 2007, if yes by roughly how much?
Any one completed their training at Egnatia yet as i believe a while ago some1 was saying some people will be completing their training? What are their situations now?
Are their any selection processes?
Is it better for me to do my medical in Greece or do it here in the UK? What is the difference apart from costs?
Also my current situation is that I have started a degree course, but my ultimate goal in life is to become a successful airline pilot, Reason I started the degree because I do not have a class 1 medical and their are no guarantees that I will pass it, therefore I thought it would be wise to start the degree just in case things didn’t work out. I will not think of leaving university until I am certain that I will be starting my flight training. I would appreciate any advice on what I could do? (PMS welcome)i.e. complete the degree, do 2 years of me degree and take a year out to do pilot training? Also, a reason to why I don’t want to do a degree in the first place is that I will be in a considerable amount of debt, therefore I will most likely have to work for a few years and delay my flight training further which I don’t want to be doing. Although I am aware of the some of the benefits of having a degree.

[AlphaMale]

aftab I guess it's horses for courses really. I have wanted to fly planes (BizJets/Airline/Instructor) since I was 6 years old on my first trip on a 747 to Florida, unfortunatly when I finished my A levels I didn't have £30k/£40k in my bank and I couldn't see anybody lending an 18 year old that amount of money to achive a dream job.

I went to Uni got my degree and I now work as a Web/Graphic Designer earning enough money to self fund myself through a £40k aviation school to gain the needed qualifications and hours.

Having a degree is a good back up just incase I can't get picked up by an airline but if I am lucky enough to get an interview I am sure the BSc will look good on my CV. Many will agree that if you get the chance to go to Uni do it, you'll learn more about yourself and life in many ways. Join the Univesity Air Sqn and get some flying experience under your belt.

Good luck

Egnatia looks like a top class school too :D

Andrew

[edymonster]

Whats the best and cheapest route to get there from London airports?

[wbryce]

Whats the best and cheapest route to get there from London airports?

Edymonster,

I'm flying out their a week tomorrow and this question had me stressed out for a day or two trying to find the best route possible.

My findings were

BA, Gatwick to Thessaloniki (LGTS or SKG), bus or ask the school to come collect you. You can get a bus from the local bus station to Kavala, its about a 2 hour journey I think, I dont have any information on how to get the bus station - local taxi would be best option.

Failing this if you have more time on your hands you can fly to Athens either BA or Easyjet and take a commuter (Olympic or Aegean) to Kavala. I looked at this option but I seem to remember that you had to wait until the following day to make the connecting flights (think its only 1 per day).

[edymonster]

Thanks alot, i will have a look at your option you suggest. Had a look a domestic flights and there actually 2 flights a day. One early morning and one late afternoon. It is about 100 pound return just for the domestic flight if you book early in advance.

[wbryce]

Depends how rich you are!! but Id be off to LGTS and bus to Kavala! :E

I was able to understand my plan better after looking at a map of Greece and familiarising myself with Thessaloniki and Kavala. http://www.enchantedlearning.com/europe/greece/map/big.GIF simpliest ones are the best! :ok:

[JediDude]

Is there anybody at Egantia just now with a family in tow using the 2 bedroom family apartments? Would be nice to get a bit more info as I'm planning on starting there next year and will be planning on taking my wife, son and new-born with me. Anybody else with family considering Egnatia?

[edymonster]

Can anyone give me a bit of info in what there is to see while hour building form Kavala airport? Is it good backpacking country or do you always have to return to base every night? Also what is the deal with isalnd hopping in a SE aircraft, is it encouraged or is it not recommended by the establishment?

[aftab]

hi alpha male, thanks for the reply, how do i join the university air squadrons?? any1 else that cn help plz reply, thanks

[AlphaMale]

hi alpha male, thanks for the reply, how do i join the university air squadrons?? any1 else that cn help plz reply, thanks

Usually you'll find these at the fresher days with a stall, they are all walking around in flight gear (well they were at my uni). I did ask them a couple of questions and was ready to do ahead with it ... but for some reason nothing ever came from it and I could never find them after that :{ (looking back I wish I had made more effort - I don't think it would be that hard to get in contact with the Uni social/sports club to ask for a number/info).

Good luck in your quest ... as most have said throughout this forum. Don't put all your eggs in on basket. I'll have 2.5 years of Web/Graphic Design work experience and a BSc to fall back onto. The reality is there are a lot of people on here that are quite bitter about not getting an airline job after 2 years and £70k of training. Don't let them put you off. :ugh:

If I can change my career path from working in an office 9-5 to flying 8-6 as a CFI/FI for less money I'll be quite a happy fella. Anything more is a bonus - A Dash 8 would be good ... a Learjet better ... A 737/320 would just be a dream come true!

Andrew

(I think your Air Squadren will be based at RAF Church Fenton - See here http://www.universityairsquadrons.com/ and here http://www.yuas.dial.pipex.com/)

[Slow Progress]

Egnatia's website is full of lost links and they still haven't sent me any information or even replied to my email.

Hardly what you'd expect from a professional flying school!!

Slow Progress

[rogueflyer01]

Egnatia's website is full of lost links and they still haven't sent me any information or even replied to my email.

Hardly what you'd expect from a professional flying school!!

Slow Progress

Hi, i sent them a e-mail and they responded almost immediately. :ok: Maybe they are busy :confused:. Send the an e-mail to the following people:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]


:ok:

[Egnatia Instructor]

Hi Slow Progress,

As the company training advisor, i do try to respond to all emails ASAP, most on the same day depending on how complex your question might be, I have been away for the weekend for the Flyer show at Heathrow so I do now have a backlog, but please PM me and I will dig about to find you, the junk filter may even of binned you?

Regards
Dave Hall

[Hamid_27]

I would like to know, after you finish the training, do you help with getting an interview with airlines, and what kind of help do you give to graduates.

do egnatia graduates get employment straight away, or is hour building essential in order to secure an interview??

are the standards as high as OAT, in terms of training, and service, also i couldnt find any information about 737 or a320 sims?

regards

Hamid

[wbryce]

hello hamid,

Egnatia are mainly a core training provider - they do exactly as they say, they will teach you the ATPLs, train you for CPL and IR...your paying for this only and paying at a very good price.

As far as I know they dont have sims or marketing stratagies, do a little bit more reading (I recommend the OAT thread, especially the last couple of pages - theres a good post by "Robbed 60 grand" about OAT and employment statistics).

[pilot-320]

Can anyone give me a bit of info in what there is to see while hour building form Kavala airport? Is it good backpacking country or do you always have to return to base every night? Also what is the deal with isalnd hopping in a SE aircraft, is it encouraged or is it not recommended by the establishment?


Hello there!!

As a current student here im taking the pleasure to reassure u that island hoping it is permitted and i have had some of the best experiences of my entire life doing it! Greece is famous fr its holidays resorts so by arrangement and as i said before usually during weekends u can pick a plane with another fellow pilot log about 4 hours flying time and stay overnight whenever u like around greece!

[Hamid_27]

Hi all,

Im thinking about going to Egnatia Aviation instead of an FTO in the UK such as Oxford, whos prices are sky high, mainly because of the name.

Egnatia have an amazing new fleet of Diamond da40 and da42, better aircraft that most FTOs in the UK.:eek:

because the cost of the course is low, you can consider paying for a type rating, or even hour build for a while to get to airline standard, and most proberly would be left alot of change from what one could pay at an FTO in the UK, and the good thing is accommodation is included!:eek:

i think i will go over in Jan to pay a visit, and hopefully join soon after.:ok:

Kind regards

Hamid

[aircockroaches]

Hamid

Will you be doing the 0 to fATPL?

AirCockroaches

[Hamid_27]

hi AirCockroaches

yea i will be doing the 0 - fATPL, are you thinking of doing the same? the place looks awsome. even though they dont have sims, the money can be spent on that else where.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

regards

Hamid

[aircockroaches]

No Hamid

I will actually do my CPL/IR in a slightly different manner!

I already have a JAA PPL so I will go modular, licence by licence.


Best of luck.

AirCockroaches

[aircockroaches]

By the way,

Does anyone know if I can have reduced hours for the 0 to fATPL if I already own a JAA PPL(A)?

Thanks.
AirCockroaches

[pilot-320]

By the way,

Does anyone know if I can have reduced hours for the 0 to fATPL if I already own a JAA PPL(A)?

Thanks.
AirCockroaches

As far as i know ur whole PPL will be deducted !

[flyingklunzy]

Has anyone done an IR conversion with them? If so what have did they think of it and what were the training standards like? Were they treated the same as the integrated guys or at the bottom of the pile so to speak when it came to priority.

[aftab]

hey, i am thinking of visiting egnatia during the xmas holidays, could any1 tell me what would be the best way to get from the UK, pref from manchester airport, and also the costs.

thanks

[BlueRobin]

Hamid, as far as I can tell they have a handful of DA40 (4 as stated on previous page) and one DA42. I would be concerned as with any FTO about aircraft availability. To be fair I am told EA can lease further aircraft from Diamond if required.

Just want to keep the facts straight on wannabes :ok:

[rogueflyer01]

Wbryce has visited the school and has recorded his views on his website:

http://www.wbryce.co.uk/

Click on the Diaries Link then the Choosing flight school link.. I will copy and paste it here:


Pre FTO Vist at Egnatia Aviation (written 13/10/2006):
Well the time is coming!! I luckily find myself thinking about what professional FTO (flight training organization) to use for my remaining training! Even thinking about this gets me excited! Let’s go back and get an insight into my basic training philosophy so far - after reading countless threads on PPRuNe about certain wannabes experiencing financial trouble or job related stress caused by financial constraints - my vision for completing my training was to remain patient so I'm not one of those silly individuals who rushed into massive amount of debt! Then post countless whining threads about their situation, I have no sympathy for them what so ever. Every month PPRuNe will have a post with someone looking for advice - every month someone will tell them be patient, get a job, pay for some of it, do distance learning...the typical response to this healthy advise is - no they would rather take on debt, some people are just blinded with the fashion element of flying professionally or they have the patience of a 5 year old. I guess it’s a risk when taking a loan to cover your training costs, if the risk pulls off and you get decent employment then its success but the chances are slim.
Flying has always been my dream, like many others have said in the past - my first memory from childhood involves F14 (ohh go on have a guess!) What im trying to achieve is to complete my training with the least debt possible! Spending money on training doesn't stop when training is completed! There are many routes one can take to enhance their chances of employment (some more sinister than others but that’s another endless subject!!)!
Choosing a flight school will always be personnel preference mixed with other factors, the flight school I have in mind is Egnatia Aviation located in Greece. Since this FTO is based in a foreign country I must ensure that I like the location first then I must consider accommodation, people and life style, to ensure this I made a sensible decision and decided I would go over and visit Egnatia in a couple of weeks time (11th November 06 depending when you read this I've probably already been their and updated this section). The best advice to anyone who likes a training organization is to go visit them and get a feel for the place.
Why does Egnatia appeal to me? Well Egnatia doesn't have any fancy marketing techniques so I'm not lured by pretense, I've been looking at flight schools for roughly three years now and If I had a pound for every time I changed my plan then I'd be paying integrated!! Egnatia aviation only established themselves this year (2006) so they're a very new school which will obviously involve a degree of financial risk. How ever, any new school will go that extra mile with their students to ensure they establish themselves in a fierce market! I will limit my financial risk by paying as I go (the school encourages this so positive marks in them making me feel comfortable about their current financial situation!).
Another appealing factor is getting away from my current life style - I quite fancy a change and getting away from my daily routine! Moving away for a year is a very exciting prospect for me especially when there’s no distractions plus it will give me that form of Integrated social bonding with course students which I feel many Modular students miss out on - best of both worlds.
Egnatia have a brand new fleet of Diamond aircrafts (DA40s and DA42s - my first taste of Jet A1!!), so it’s quite an advanced training platform, the only thing missing is a simulator! Sometimes it makes sense in my opinion to go over some instrument flying on the ground first so the mind understands the procedure your just about to fly!
It’s my advice to all Wannabes considering FTOs to visit each school your interested in, get a feel for the place and consider - Would I enjoy being here? Does the staff seem friendly? Do the instructors seem competent? Is their any additional fees? (Be weary of additional fees, many FTOs will advertise their price at minimum training requirements minus examination costs/flight tests and accommodation - this can easily equate to another 10-15k more than quoted).
I just wish to add my thanks to Vic (a current Egnatia student) whose been very helpful on PPRuNe and offered me a place to stay during my visit, he’s also offered to pick me up at Thessaloniki airport...roughly about 130 miles from Egnatias base! So I'm very pleased with assistance Vic’s offered me!
To be continued...

Post FTO visit at Egnatia Aviation (written 14/11/2006):
You ever had that state of mind when you can't sleep the night before? Well I unfortunately had to suffer this before my journey started!! At 0430 my clock was making the most annoying noise possible, oh wait that’s my alarm! As with any early starts you get up and endure the early morning syndrome. Luckily as I arrived at Edinburgh I joined the early morning airport fire evacuation aftermath (was this a sign of things to come I asked myself!!) was I lucky in my timing or unlucky with the event?? Who knew at this point but I didn't care, I was too tired...my only objective was coffee.
I had a long day ahead, flying from Edinburgh to Gatwick then connecting onto Thessaloniki (then a 2 hour drive to Keramoti - thanks again Vic). On the flight to Thessaloniki I tried to evaluate what expectations I had and what sort of questions I need to ask in order to satisfy my feelings.
So what did I expect? Well from the pictures and recent discussions over Egnatia, I expected as with any new start up a very open armed reception, very clean aircraft and operations centre which all lived up to my expectations. I wanted to get a feel from the students as well as the staff! My main question is would I fit in with Egnatia and Greece in general?
Surprisingly 2 traditional English breakfasts later while seated in club class on BA2642 a B737-400 at flight level 37, it was time to descend and with this I knew the next 24 hours could be one of those experiences that dramatically opens another chapter in my life, one I've eagerly been anticipating for the past 2 years so I was all fired up.
Vic a current student with Egnatia agreed to pick me up and drive me back to Keramoti which was great, Vic’s a very keen aviation enthusiast and it was great to sit down, have another coffee and chat about our experiences - a high flying topic was the distraction of female flight crew, started after the recent article on page 46 of Airliner World about Tami Henderson, EasyJets latest female first officer!! She can be my captain anytime! Anyway, on the way to my accommodation we dropped into Egnatia aviation after a crazy 2 hour drive…I got the impression Wacky Races was every ones favorite cartoon over here! First impression counts so would I be greeted in a way that would positively affect my initial impression or would I be left with a negative impression? Well I was greeted by everyone, students and staff so I can safely say I received a very warm welcome. One of the directors ensured my accommodation plans were all thought out and offered me my own room as the initial plan was to stay in Vic’s house. I managed to speak to all 0-fATPL students and they all seem to be enjoying their experience. Many of them had their first ATPL exams the day after I left so the baggy eyes we're quite evident!
The school itself is situated in its own building block west of the Terminal, it’s not a new building but you can tell a lot of intensive work has been done in order to build Egnatias operations. So far I was pleased with what I was seeing. By this time it was getting quite late so we went to my accommodation and dropped off my bags and went for something to eat where we then ended up at a bar until 2am (it was a Saturday)!! But as mentioned earlier, all the fATPL's bugged out early for last minute ATPL cramming!
Entertainment factor so far was positive - It’s good that Keramoti has a few decent pubs and places to eat! The following day (Sunday) is when I officially had a look around and asked all my questions. Dave (one of the instructors) offered me a back seat flight on one of his lessons which was thoughtful! The flight was good; the LFA is about 10minutes flying time over flat land with plenty of PFL field choices...
Kavala International airport has very little traffic so mixing in with the big boys will be limited experience, its certainly not on par with UKs regional airports… although this point isn't entirely important in my opinion (mainly after countless experiences waiting behind a jet at £3 per minute!! or being told "number 5 behind a TU154, left hand orbit end of downwind"). If you’re learning your PPL you may get excited at this prospect of mixing it with commercial traffic but since I've experienced the good and bad points of this, I’m not that interested about this point during my CPL/IR.
I spoke with both directors who eased my mind about how and why Egnatia aviation started and how their future vision projects the companies’ intentions.
Overall I think my visit to Egnatia was a positive experience! And I would be happy to enroll and put my training in their hands. I would recommend anyone who has any doubts about Egnatia - visit them before spending your hard earned cash! What’s right for me isn't necessary right for you! Egnatia as far as I'm concerned will deliver what they promise...
If I choose Egnatia as my core provider - I will try my best and document each training module so everyone can get a feel and insight into what’s required.
Thanks again to Vic who arranged my accommodation, transport to and from Thessaloniki and thanks to Egnatia for making my stay a positive one. Egnatia Aviation (www.egnatia-aviation.com).
Anyone interested in Visiting Egnatia - My findings we're BA - Gatwick to Thessaloniki (daily service) then either bus or car hire. Thessaloniki is around 120 miles from Egnatia, its not ideally located for this purpose but its not that difficult to get too. Failing this if you have more time and money you could fly to Athens (daily again with BA and EasyJet) then get a connecting flight to Kavala (you may need to stay a night in Athens).


Cheers Will :ok:

[aircockroaches]

Interesting...

I'd definitely go visit them later on next year.

How about girls will, anythin special? :8

[JediDude]

I am planning on visiting Egnatia sometime in the new year but would still be interested in hearing about anybodys experience attending egnatia with a family especially the family accomodation. Is it big enough for 2 people plus 2 kids (2yo & baby)?

[pilot-320]

I am planning on visiting Egnatia sometime in the new year but would still be interested in hearing about anybodys experience attending egnatia with a family especially the family accomodation. Is it big enough for 2 people plus 2 kids (2yo & baby)?

Hello JediDude and sorry for me being able to answer ur question so late.. it was just due to my ATPL exams. Egnatia offers a wide range of accomodation and yes the houses are big enough for someone with a family like yours. I would suggest though to contact the school directly by any mean so u can discuss ur situation and be allocated with a suitable room even if that will be a short visit !

:ok:

[pilot-320]

Hello to everyone again . I am now back to normal after finishing my first stage of ground exams and i will be here more often for updates. Everything went as planned and as here in Greece we get our results straight away after the exams we had a 100% pass rate and with really good grades too. Glad with my progress and of course a big congratulation to my friends who did the same here in Greece and to all of you who sat and passed your exams anywhere else around the Globe.
Greece is using an automated system which means the exams are in an electronic form and the results are out straight after so there is no long periods of worry!
The system Egnatia is using for teaching has worked so far which is good news as i said before we were the first bunch of people sitting the exams and apart from having no previous feedback he had no clue on how the exams are here in Greece. Now we do know and i think this is helpful for all those thinking of joining Egnatia or anyother school here in greece or somewhere the same system is being used.
No more to say at the moment abd i would like to say good luck to my good friend and a former Egnatia student Jason who is going to have his type rating on a 737 with AEGEAN AIRLINES.

Anyone wishing to ask anything do no hesitate!

TAKE CARE ALL OF YOU!!!!:ok:

[pilot-320]

In a continuous effort to increase new pilot awareness and assist new and potential commercial pilots in Greece, Egnatia Aviation is organising the above seminar in association with Bond Aviation Solutions (www.bondaviationsolutions.com) (http://www.bondaviationsolutions.com)).

The seminar contents will include:
• The European pilot recruitment market
• Writing a good pilots CV
• Ability and personality testing - a guide
• Succeed at that important interview
• “The Next Step”

The seminar will be delivered, in English, by Mr Roger Ware, Astraeus Senior First Officer, Training First Officer and Pilot/Airline Recruitment Specialist.

Bond Aviation Solutions and Egnatia Aviation staff will be available to answer any questions. The seminar will be free.

Together, Egnatia Aviation and Bond Aviation Solutions offer a complete airline pilot package. Bond Aviation Solutions offer the following:
• Type Rating Training (B737NG, EFIS, B757, B767, A320 Family)
• Jet Orientation Training (Integrated into TR and Stand alone)
• MCC (Integrated into all available TR Courses)
• Line Training packages with TR Training (B737, B757)
• Differences Training
• SIM Check Preparation and SIM Experiences
• Airline Instructor Training (TRI Core, TRI, TRE, TRI (A) Upgrade)

The seminar is provisionally planned for January 2007 at Egnatia Aviation premises in Kavala– details to follow soon. In order to finalise the location and place of the seminar please let me know if you are interested to attend (PM or email).



I hope to see you all there!

This seminar has just been arranged and the above are the words of one of EGNATIA'S directors. Very good news for us here and as it is free i felt like posting about it as other people may want to come and attend.

GREETINGS TO EVERYONE HERE FROM GREECE!:ok:

[yoda1]

Hi chaps,

After careful advice from many 'pruners' such as scroggs, pilot pete etc i have decided to go, the modular route. :p

I will be starting on the 0-fatpl course at Egnatia early next year and i will be keeping a day to day diary for anyone that is interested. My chosen medium is in the form of a blog that can be located at the following address:

http://dreams-of-a-pilot.********.com/

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me primarily on the blog or alternatively on pprune. Wow i am so excited and raring to go.

:ok:

[skyhigher]

hi everyone,

has anyone completed their ir with egnatia. can anyone coment on the ir training, where the ils's are near by and what routes etc you fly?

many thanks,

skyhigher.

[yoda1]

Send them an e-mail and they are very pro at helping you..... remember to keep an eye on my blog as i will be starting their in Jan....;) :p

All the best,

+Yoda

http://dreams-of-a-pilot.********.com/

[planeshipcar]

can I sit my ATPLs in the UK if I chose to go here?

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Hi Yoda, can you please let me know the reasons of why you choose Egnatia Flight College in Greece to a college in the UK? ... is it the weather?

I'm putting my research together at the moment and half of me is saying it could be risky learning to fly at a college with no history at all, on top of the normal challenge of obtaining a job at the end; while the package does seem rather good.

I'm considering doing hour building at Egnatia (as I fly the DA40/PA28/38), but looking at doing my main CPL/IR in the UK at a well known college recommended by the CAA.

[FougaMagister]

Hi Yoda, can you please let me know the reasons of why you choose Egnatia Flight College in Greece to a college in the UK? ... is it the weather? (...) I'm considering doing hour building at Egnatia (as I fly the DA40/PA28/38), but looking at doing my main CPL/IR in the UK at a well known college recommended by the CAA.

Note: the UK CAA (like its equivalent in any other JAA member State) does NOT recommend any Flight Training Organisation. They only publish a list (available on the CAA's website) of all UK JAA-approved FTOs.

Better flying weather means faster courses, certainly for the part which involves VFR (such as most of the CPL). There are pro and cons to both UK and Continental options.

Cheers :cool:

[yoda1]

Hi Yoda, can you please let me know the reasons of why you choose Egnatia Flight College in Greece to a college in the UK? ... is it the weather?

I'm putting my research together at the moment and half of me is saying it could be risky learning to fly at a college with no history at all, on top of the normal challenge of obtaining a job at the end; while the package does seem rather good.

I'm considering doing hour building at Egnatia (as I fly the DA40/PA28/38), but looking at doing my main CPL/IR in the UK at a well known college recommended by the CAA


Hi M8,

First off Egnatia is a greek registered FTO and thus part of the JAA network. Although the school does not appear in the UKCAA approved FTO's it is registered under the HCAA and i confirmed this by phoning them and asking (HCAA). Any license earned is given you by the HCAA but is JAA and is easily transferred to UKCAA. I know this because i asked egnatia and i phoned the ukcaa. Once any licenses are obtained, if you want to change the state of issue from HCAA to UKCAA then you need to complete the following form:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FORSRG1136.PDF

I have been researching flight training for about 6-7 years and have consequently looked at all options (integrated and modular). If you have a look at my blog (http://dreams-of-a-pilot.********.com/index.html) i always wanted to go integrated however careful research and advice from 'pruners' such as scroggs, pilot pete, mike cr etc made me look at the modular route from a fresh perpective. Basically i decided if i did not get into a mentored scheme i would go modular.

Looking at the financial implications (http://dreams-of-a-pilot.********.com/2006/12/finance.html)off going to egnatia against other ftos (that i was considering) it makes sense. Secondly off course the weather helps as i want it done as quickly as possible. Now if all goes according to plan and i don't need to retake anything or add any extra lessons potentially i can have my cpl/ir in 317 days.

Yes it is a risk going to a FTO with no history i am prepared to take the risk for the following reasons:

1) Reading wbryces (http://www.wbryce.co.uk/) thoughts about the school. (click on diaries and choosing flight school links)

2) Egnatia's professional attitude in answering all my questions (trust me there were many and i am sure dave and george are sick of me now lol ;) )

3) The structure of the course.

4) The flexible 'pay as you go' approach.

5) Talking to them at the flyer show.

6) Reading other students accounts of the place.

7) The facilities such as new aircraft, accomodation offices.

8) Reading the flexible terms and conditions.

9) Price.

10) Quality of training

11) Accommodation included in the price.

12) All training been conducted in one place as i don't want to move around from school to school.

13) And last but not least being in greece!

Now i know some of you are proabably thinking that i should have gone and visited the place as young William Bryce did however i go on 'gut' instinct. My sixth form, university were chosen this way and i had no problems. But i recommend anyone else visit the place as i just want to get on with it now after most of my twenties being spent on my ass earning the money to train as a pilot. ;)

I did consider other schools in the US but i decided against it because after working through the costs it works out the same and in some cases more expensive than egnatia. Also i want to stay in european airspace with the uk being round the corner just incase i need to get back.

I am not worried about getting a job yet but i do have a strategy which hopefully will enable me to get a job once i complete by training without anyform of nepotism :)

Keep an eye on my blog (http://dreams-of-a-pilot.********.com/index.html) as i will be updating it daily with my flying adventures when i start early next year.

Good luck with whatever you decide and if you come to egnatia look me up.

+Yoda1

[planeshipcar]

I can see my previous post is going to be completely ignored so I'll try again!

Can I sit a commercial training course in Greece is I've done my ATPL theoryin England?

[pilot-320]

Sure u can mate!

Many current students have finished their theory in the UK and now hourbuilding and flying towards their cpl!:ok:

[OnRoute]

Sure u can mate!

Many current students have finished their theory in the UK and now hourbuilding and flying towards their cpl!:ok:

Doesn't UK CAA have anything against it that the students do their theoretical training in one JAA country and flight training for CPL in an other? I've been asking our local CAA here north and they answered me that this option is only available if the student has a good reason for doing the training in some other country (permanent moving to other country or something equivalent). They don't have anything against doing ratings in other JAA countries but new licenses seem to be a big no-no.

[wbryce]

Planechipper,

Unfortunately if you do your theory in a different JAA state other than the UK then you cannot do the CPL/IR in the UK, I dont know if its vice versa but the likelyhood it is...mainly because it would be two different authorities overseaing the examination procedures...otherwise it could be a small loop hole i.e. do your exams in another state with lower requirements then move to another state with higher theory requirements for flight training etc etc...

albeit the question bank is global between the JAA states.

[upup&away]

I am self employed,and i would like to go to Egnatia in Greece to do my frozen 0-atpl training.I feel that the residential course suits me better,however i wonder if it is possible to say do 3 months in Greece and maybe have a month off,so i can make sure that my business is ok, and key staff can take leave etc.
Once i gain my qualifications i plan to lease my businesses so it wont be a problem then.
I understand that the course will take a little longer,but the benefits of being able to come home and see my kids,and make sure the business is ok would make it worth it!

[tumboseppala]

Hello Guys,

It has been very interesting to read about Engatia, since my 2,5 year research has came to an end and I´ve pretty considered to go to Greece. As somebody else said above "last but not least, living in Greece" and enjoying the weather.

I´m Finn, currently living in Helsinki and I´ve planned my studies toward ATPL for 2,5 yrs already. Couple of months ago I was very much going for NEAR/NAIA, and it´s still open but Greece seems better since its in EU.

I sent long email to Egnatia almost 2 weeks ago, and tried to call them couple of times, but no answer! What is the problem. Are they enjoying Chrismas holiday season or do they have enough students already? :ugh:

What it comes to the course itself, I´m gonna make 0 to ATPL full course 317 days. Is MCC course included?

How about family apartment. I´ve planned to go together with my wife (no children). Engatia web site is saying that they have family apartments but is it included to the price 46.190 eur. ?

I know that these questions might be somewhere in the topic but there´s ****loads of stuff, so it take ages to read it through :bored:

Happy new Year! :D:D

-tumboseppala

[AlphaMale]

How about family apartment. I´ve planned to go together with my wife (no children). Engatia web site is saying that they have family apartments but is it included to the price 46.190 eur. ?
I doubt very much that a family room is the same price as a single room ;)
I know that these questions might be somewhere in the topic but there´s ****loads of stuff, so it take ages to read it through :bored:
There is a lot there, but you'll probably get the answer you're looking for aswel as picking up extra information that you have been looking for further down the line :)
I am sure you'll have a reply soon but it is the holiday period so I am sure they have a backlog of e-mails to answer.
Good luck

[tumboseppala]

I doubt very much that a family room is the same price as a single room ;)

Me too, but on the other hand, straigt quote from Egnatia web site


We provide a large range of accommodation to suit your requirements including:
• Two bedroom family apartments with kitchen and bathroom
• Single apartments with private kitchen and bathroom
• Single rooms sharing kitchen and bathroom
All accommodation is carefully selected and is included in the cost, as well as transport to and from the airport.

http://www.egnatia-aviation.com/Accommodation.htm


There is a lot there, but you'll probably get the answer you're looking for aswel as picking up extra information that you have been looking for further down the line :)
That´s very much the truth and I keep reading through the topic, and it gives me nice information.

Thanks,

-tumboseppala

[AlphaMale]

I can see what you mean with:

We provide a large range of accommodation to suit your requirements including:
• Two bedroom family apartments with kitchen and bathroom
• Single apartments with private kitchen and bathroom
• Single rooms sharing kitchen and bathroom
All accommodation is carefully selected and is included in the cost, as well as transport to and from the airport.

I guess it's not all that clear. He'll be on here to set you straight I'm sure.

Safe landings and a Happy New Year to you.

[Speed bird 002]

Ello people, I am planning to start With Egnatia on the 0-ATPL programme in June and I have my class 1 booked on 2nd Jan. Can you guys tell me what PPL Preperation i would recieve once i pay my deposit. I'v not looked at the study guides before and have never used a CRP-5. Secondly, there has been a person stating about a possible package with Bond Aviation and an open evening, can anyone tell me when that is organised for, has i will be arriving in Athens on 4th Jan, 2 days after my medical.

Many Thanks and Happy new Year :ok:

Hayder.

[tumboseppala]

I can see what you mean with:

We provide a large range of accommodation to suit your requirements including:
• Two bedroom family apartments with kitchen and bathroom
• Single apartments with private kitchen and bathroom
All accommodation is carefully selected and is included in the cost, as well as transport to and from the airport.


Hello,

That is exactly what I mean, and to be honest it would´t be so bad service anyway. If you think it through, they are providing equal service for all applicants, whoever is in different situation in life.

Well...I´ll keep on waiting and contact there again on the beginning of 2007 to see can I get a reply.

Happy new year to all ya!!!

-tumboseppala

[yoda1]

Hi,

Is MCC course included?

Mcc is not included..but its relatively cheap to do anyway...

Can you guys tell me what PPL Preperation i would recieve once i pay my deposit. I'v not looked at the study guides before and have never used a CRP-5

Same here m8. I am due to start on the 0-fatpl course next week. I payed my deposit in december and I have not received anything by post so one would assume they give you it when you arrive but i guess you can request it from them if you are raring to go. :O

Keep an eye on my blog (http://dreams-of-a-pilot.********.com/) and i will update it regularly....

Well...I´ll keep on waiting and contact there again on the beginning of 2007 to see can I get a reply

They always answer my e-mails promptly when i send it to them. Try these:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Send them all one e-mail and one of them will respond.

Hope to see you guys out there....

:ok: :)

[tumboseppala]

Mcc is not included..but its relatively cheap to do anyway...
Fair enough, didn´t thought so in the first place ;). Anyways, what it comes to MCC course and HCAA provided ATPL+CPL etc. do I have to make my MCC in Greece or can I do it for example in Belgium or other CAA country?

And thanks Yoda1 for extra e-mails. I actually think they are enjoying little Christmas holidays, since I emailed there on 20th of Dec, just under Christmas time. I try to keep calm ;).

But one thing needs to be asked in here. When does the courses begin? Do they have new entries once a month or twice a year?

Thanks

-tumboseppala

[yoda1]

Hi,

do I have to make my MCC in Greece or can I do it for example in Belgium or other CAA country?

You can do your mcc anywhere in a JAA country. I personally plan to do my licenses in Greece and as soon as i get back to the uk, i intened to change the state issue from the HCAA to UKCAA then do my MCC here.

When does the courses begin? Do they have new entries once a month or twice a year?

I may be wrong about this but i think they have a intake every 3 months...i'll let the egnatia guys correct me if i am wrong...:p

Oohh i am so excited, just a few more things to pack and i am ready to go ;) :O

[EpsilonVaz]

I received my books a few weeks before I started my 0-fATPL course back in July. As I recall I received the PPL books and a Flight Bag.

I head back to Greece in a few days to start the 2nd module of the ATPL Theory! So far I'm very pleased with Egnatia, I feel it's a great Insitution and the whole environment and "feeling" there is great!

See you guys on Saturday ;)

EpsilonVaz

[Aim High]

Hi Epsilon,

Congrats on your passes in Stage 1 ATPL :D
I did not see your grades let me know what they were when you can

See you in the New Year
CATS is completing In House Stage 2 in UK for two more weeks
Another instructor is flying over to Greece on Saturday to teach you guys

Its an interesting Stage, Stage 2, but then I think all the subject matter is interesting
If you work as hard as you did for Stage 1 you'll be fine
this stage is 8 weeks long

bye for now

[FougaMagister]

do I have to make my MCC in Greece or can I do it for example in Belgium or other CAA country?

MCC-wise, there is an ATR 42/72 full-motion sim at Olympic Aviation in Thessaloniki; it might be worth contacting them to ask whether or not they do MCC courses. MCC courses in Belgium seem quite pricy from what I have seen.

Cheers :cool:

[config-2]

Hi,
I have a question for anyone who has experience the flight school. If an aircraft were to go tech, do the full-time students have priority of the modular students for use of the aircraft? I've seen on the website that they have a number of aircraft they can call upon should anything happen, but is this actually the case?
Thank you for your help.

[EpsilonVaz]

Hi,
I have a question for anyone who has experience the flight school. If an aircraft were to go tech, do the full-time students have priority of the modular students for use of the aircraft? I've seen on the website that they have a number of aircraft they can call upon should anything happen, but is this actually the case?
Thank you for your help.

There is no Integrated course at Egnatia, all students are Modular. As far as I've heard Egnatia have the option to lease more aircraft from Diamond if it becomes nessasary. I have done most of my hour building and have not had any problem.

[glenroberts]

Wow, looks good (particularly the climate!)...
has anyone gone out there to just do hour building?

[Daniel Asplund]

Hi there. As I've been reading thru this treat I get the impression that the school in greece is really good. And I have serious thoughts of going there. Is there anything negative to say about the school or anything to think about before starting the education there? Thru my years I've learned that all places have strong and week sides and it would be nice to know what the weak ones is at Egnatia.

Anyone having a good suggestion how to get there from Sweden? Flying from ARN-KVA get me a price at around €2000, and thats a lot. Is there any cheap airlines that flies to KVA from UK, France or Holland?

//Daniel

[dumdidum]

This Egnatia looks very nice and I'll definitely have to consider this option also. Still, we Finns are fortunate enough to have even less expensive option available(10ke) which I'll try first. Since my probablities are 25 to 1 to get in, I'll keep saving for Egnatia or whichever school I will choose. Need to decide soon though, I just turned 28... But anyways, Egnatia looks very nice indeed =)

One question though. A couple of finnish companies require Finnish licences for some strange reason. Is it possible to turn HCAA to FINCAA(or whatever the correct acronym is) as easy as to UKCAA? After getting fATPL, I need to stay in Finland for at least two years due to the studies of my better half. After that I'll look into moving abroad if such is the mood. Nothing really wrong in Finland either(quite the contrary)... except for the taxes.

btw. Mr Bryce is not considering egnatia anymore. He explains his concerns in his diary.

edit: Nevermind my "one question". Got the answer from another thread and by reading JAR FCL 1.1065. So no prob there.

[PPL152]

btw. Mr Bryce is not considering egnatia anymore. He explains his concerns in his diary.

He did not consider it anymore due to the fact that in Greece you do not get that much traffic.

There are the ups and downs of this. Personally I would want the airfield to be not too busy for the simple reason that during my training, I'd prefer to focus on learning the stuff I have to learn for the particular licence or rating syllabus, rather than dealing with that, plus an extreme load of traffic whooshing all around me...

On the other hand, if you can stick to it, it's good if during training you're stressed with that plus, however, I don't see it that necessary.

Just my 2p on that.

[FougaMagister]

Personally I would want the airfield to be not too busy for the simple reason that during my training, I'd prefer to focus on learning the stuff I have to learn for the particular licence or rating syllabus, rather than dealing with that, plus an extreme load of traffic whooshing all around me(...) I don't see it that necessary.

On the contrary, better learn on a commercial airport with controlled airspace and a fair amount of traffic. It helps to develop good airmanship from the outset, by having to deal with ATIS, (sometimes) Clearance Delivery, GND, TWR, APP, etc. and to keep the "big picture" of what's happening around you, whether on the ground taxying, flying in the ATZ or further out on the approach.

That way, when progressing to instrument flying, mixing it with airline/bizjet traffic into commercial airports will be one less thing to worry about.

Cheers :cool:

[wbryce]

Yep Fouga, I would agree...if you train in a different environment to the one your aiming to fly in then you will need to adapt and thats an avoidable stress...its not a major worry or a big reason not to train in Greece, regardless where you do your training their will always be local considerations which will help factor your decision, my own reasons for not going to Greece well, its a lot of little things that all add up imo and in the end I decided their was too many of them, so I went for the safer and probably the harder option...as much as I would've loved a year out in Greece but unfortunately us poor modular students only really get one clear shot at this! :)
I visited Egnatia and have no doubt it would be a great place to learn, its very cost effective and it gets you away from your daily life. Its still a relatively new FTO and it will take its time for them to make their own reputation as a provider, good or bad thats in their hands. With their current directors passion for aviation then I dont think this will be a problem, but theirs a lot of little things they could change which would enhance their whole package...good luck to anyone out their training and say hi to Vic for me, the guys falling off the radar scope! Vic, squawk Ident! :D

[jonnyboy102]

Has anyone been able to get hold of Egnatia? I've sent a few emails with no reply just an automated response. Are they on holiday?

[eurojunkie]

I haven't had any problems contacting them, they usually get back to me within about a day or so. I've been speaking with George on this email:
[email protected]
He has been extremely helpful in answering my many, many questions.

edit: I just got an out of office email, George will return to the office tomorrow.

[tumboseppala]

Yep,

I´ve decided to take part for Egnatia 0 to ATPL program, but I´m having also huge difficulties on making the contact. Sent emails, I got only 1 answered. Maybe I just asked too stupid questions :)

Anyways, what I was wondering and asked from Egnatia is the accomondation policy after 317 days. For what I understood was that 317 days is the actual lenght of the education, but then U have to take exams that might take total more than 3 weeks in total.

I was just wondering that do I have to pay extra for the accomondation anyways or is the accomondation provided for 317 days + exam days?

Can you guys answer?

I´m meeting my bank-officer tomorrow and we make the papers for the loan. Then it´s just about getting the plane tickets and off we go! :}:bored:

-tumboseppala

[PicMas]

Has anybody done "training to proficiency" with Egnatia?
I hold an FAA ATP and soon a JAA CPL, and was enquiring with Egnatia about an abbreviated course.
If anybody here has done similar, I would like to hear about your experiences.
It may be in vain though, I wrote them 4 days ago, got 3 automated answers but haven't heard anything yet. If they are that busy it would maybe be a good idea to take my business elsewhere?
Is this representative of the flight training? Or merely southern european fluid-time mentality?

[EpsilonVaz]

Has anybody done "training to proficiency" with Egnatia?
I hold an FAA ATP and soon a JAA CPL, and was enquiring with Egnatia about an abbreviated course.
If anybody here has done similar, I would like to hear about your experiences.
It may be in vain though, I wrote them 4 days ago, got 3 automated answers but haven't heard anything yet. If they are that busy it would maybe be a good idea to take my business elsewhere?
Is this representative of the flight training? Or merely southern european fluid-time mentality?

Hi there,

I am a current student at Egnatia doing the 0-ATPL course. As I have said in my previous posts, my experience so far at Egnatia as been exeptional.

I can assure you that they are not being snowed under with students. In my opinion and from what I've seen/heard, I think the reason you have not got any reply so far is becuase of Egnatia getting extremely popular and many, many people making enquiries. As you can imagine it takes a considerable amount of time to respond to each email, and it all adds up.

My advice to you is if you would like fast answers, contact them by telephone, the number is on the website.

Regards,

EpsilonVaz

[georgez]

I will try and contribute to as many points as I can.

EMAILS - Please be assured that we always reply to the emails that we receive, irrespective of content, length of email, origin etc. Some of the replies are straight forward, some we have to contact the Hellenic and other country Authorities before we can give a responsible answer. Unfortunately despite the fact that we all work with common JAA rules, certain authorities like to be consulted first when it comes to conversions, renewals etc. So sometimes you have to be patient.

ACCOMMODATION. The training packages include a certain number of calendar days of ‘shared’ accommodation. Shared means that you have your own bedroom but you share kitchen, bathroom and living room areas. We use new clean apartments and the maximum number of bedrooms so far is two. We also use a number of holiday type apartments with or without a separate bedroom, a small kitchen and living area. These are used for “single” accommodation and there is a €7 supplement per day. If you want to bring a family we can find something bigger and let you know the cost.

NUMBER OF DAYS - Regarding the days we include. The number of days does not mean that the course finishes in these days. Nobody in aviation can guarantee you when you will finish training as there are too many variables including the weather, your own progress and commitment etc. We have included an average number of days per training module based on previous experience. If it takes less there is no refund, if it takes longer you pay extra per day. The price for the extra accommodation is always on the appropriate training page. You can even find your own accommodation once you are here and we will deduct an amount from the package price. The reason we have included accommodation is so that people can concentrate on their training, plus they do not have to worry about finding some as soon as they arrive.

Change of State of Issue - Regarding JAA licenses you can change the State of Issue at any time by completing a JAA form.

Keep posting and take care.

Georgez :)

[ATPLwhoops]

Anyone considering the cheaper Integrated course offered by WAAC in Australia?

Wondered on your views on that one!

ATPLWhoops

[Turbine King]

Surely Egnatia is cheaper being modular?

But the Ground Training is similar - they both use CATS don't they

Hour building in Greece looks great, I've met a few students who have come back with great stories

J.

[the ace of spades]

does anybody know if the ppl course ground school is self study,CAT or taught by an instructor? and with the 0-atpl course, is there any extra charges during the course, say for pre flight briefings or chatting to instructors, etc, above and beyond the 38k the course costs?

[Speed bird 002]

I have enrolled with Egnatia (EG), recieved my PPL study pack and can confirm that the PPL part of the ATPL course is self study and that EG provide a full study pack with all the necassary material in order to study the theory involved. The PPL books I was provided with are AFE guides which are very good and partially colour printed with good diagrams and tables.

The PPL pack also includes a headset for you to keep, Pooly's CRP-5, a flight rule, protractor and a 1:500,000 area chart. All the stuff is neatly put place in a flight bag which is also provided. I hav yet to recieve my headset and uniform and will collect it once i start in June so most likely the same will apply to yourself.

As far as I am aware, no further costs are involved. However, if you do require further instruction or help by an EG instructor towards the PPL theory then you would need to pay a per/hr rate which I am not aware of.

The CATS guide that you are talking about are not needed until the JAR-ATPL groundschool and is included in the 0-to-fATPL package.

Hope that helps and see you soon,

M.H.Ali

[the ace of spades]

so what is your plan or what are you advised to do regards studing the course work before you go out there? do you intend to study the whole course before you go? how long is it until you start?

[EpsilonVaz]

As far as I am aware, no further costs are involved. However, if you do require further instruction or help by an EG instructor towards the PPL theory then you would need to pay a per/hr rate which I am not aware of.


You might want to check that out, as far as I am aware (and have witnessed so far) there is no charge for any extra help you may need to assist you in your PPL theory. You could even ask the ATPL students as they are probably studying the same subjects!

EpsilonVaz

[Speed bird 002]

Im currently in London, but i was in Athens at the time I enrolled with EG. I would advise anyone wishing to start the PPL and finish within 1 month to request the PPL material atleast 4 months before date of commence. Its not easy to study all the subjects and pass the PPL skills test in 1 month and just to inform you, the HCAA have 9 PPL exams instead of 7 in the UK.

What im currently doing is studying the subjects one by one and not just reading them or learning them but im understanding them. If you learn a subject, you'll forget it within a few months but understand it and you'll take it with you in the right hand seat, every word of it. I finished the technical subject a few weeks ago and today i finished Air Law and its a good feeling to be one step ahead. Hopefully i'll be re-reading the subjects one bye one when i arrive at Kavala but it'll be more of a revision than a pain in the arse.:E

Iv already asked instructors at EG and they do not mind the odd one or two questions however, if its somthing like going through a CRP-5 which can take upto an hr (explaining literally everything) then you will be charged an hourly rate.

Anyways, if theres anything else you'd like to know, drop a message. I'll try my best to answer them.

M.H.Ali

[yoda1]

Kavala tower, G-yoda1, radio check on 121.5mhz.

so what is your plan or what are you advised to do regards studing the course work before you go out there? do you intend to study the whole course before you go?

Speed bird, what you are doing is excellent! Keep it up! Study, Study Study. The more you know before you go out there the easier you life will be :ok: Also i would advise you to get a copy of the ppl confuser and/or a subscription to airquiz.com. These 2 publications contain the complete jaa ppl question bank.

The only thing to be worried about is if the HCAA has started using the jaa question bank :confused: for ppl theory :confused: . Ah yes in January they asked us to sit all the ppl exams in the space of one day from the hours of 9:00am to 2:00pm. There is no way you can do nine exams in that space of time and no way you can finish the ppl in 28 days consequently. Lord help you if you have a resit and if they still have not started using the jaa question bank then lord help you further. :( .

The school requires you to get 85% on the mocks before they allow you to progress to the actual ppl exams.

but then U have to take exams that might take total more than 3 weeks in total.

hehe lol spot on :p sort off.

Extra costs, as mentioned is the accommodation. Make sure you budget £3k ontop of the price just in case (my opinion - you prob can get away with 2k). They don't pay for weekends. I was spending 300 euros per month before i left for food.

Keromoti is a nice place to stay but anyone going there should take allot of dvd's as greek tv is poo.

Iv already asked instructors at EG and they do not mind the odd one or two questions however, if its somthing like going through a CRP-5 which can take upto an hr (explaining literally everything) then you will be charged an hourly rate

At the school they have oxford cbt material and in general circulation between students there is a oxford disc containing all the ppl subjects. One of the cd's contains info on how to use the nav computer. This is a must! I say again must! get a copy and use it. You will be spinning those wheels in no time.

The CATS guide that you are talking about are not needed until the JAR-ATPL groundschool and is included in the 0-to-fATPL package.

I am just wondering if they have anyone to teach the atpl subjects yet :confused:

Egnatia's management is excellent and you will enjoy being out there :ok:

Rock on :cool:

[the ace of spades]

iv been e mailing eg but they dont reply very often. so did you have to pay in full before getting your ppl stuff posted out to you? did you visit the school or why did you choose eg for your ppl speedbird002?

[matt85]

When you pay the deposit (£500) they will send you your learning pack in the post or give it to you there and then if you pay in person


Edit- Yes they have an ATPL instructor, currently on a part-time basis teaching weekends as he lectures full-time somewhere else. Not sure of his name but im sure somebody can tell you.


Cheers,

Matt.

[Jetfive]

There are many positive points about Egnatia, however there are also many negative points that I feel have not been stated. I know other fellow students have refrained from posting these on PPRuNe, but I feel that it is unfair on those who are researching Flight Schools not to get the full story.

Firstly, internet access is extremely limited, at the school the connection is very slow (not broadband) and sometimes unuseable, the management often turn it off aswell. Contrary to what the management say there is NO INTERNET IN THE ACCOMODATION. You will get extremely bored some evenings, especially in the colder months. The management keep saying "we are looking into it", apparently this has been the story since the school opened, now it's turned to just be an all out "NO". Some students in other accomodation down the road have internet access, however it is my understanding that this is only due to the fact an instructor used to live there and it was part of his employment package.

To the management: No offence, I understand that you are of the older generation, you must understand that people that have grown up having the internet as a means of contact with their friends it becomes rather important. Especially when some of your students are leaving their home countries for a long, long time. They need to be able to keep in contact, and even MORE IMPORTANTLY, use BRISTOL GROUNDSCHOOL FEEDBACK to study, since the groundschool at Egnatia seems to be a shambles, but I will cover that later. But basically, you severely underestimate the importance an internet connection has.

Next, the integral part of learning to fly, the Aeroplanes!

Egnatia Aviation's fleet consists of 5 aircraft. 4 DA40's and 1 DA42. Yes, you heard correct, one DA42, If you come here expecting to do your CPL/ME/IR on a twin, expect to be here for a long, long time. Also, the CFI seems to give priority to Cypriot students (you will understand when you meet him).

Now, the DA40's, Egnatia has four of them. Generally, two of them are grounded because of technical problems, sometimes, there is only one operational DA40. Anyway, there are two PPL instructors at the school, one plane each. So hour builders, you will also be here for a long, long time. Also keep in mind, when you go over the days of accomodation in the package, you will have to pay extra accomodation, this works out to be 600euros a month.

Weither you like the accomodation or not differs from person to person, I will however say that some of the accomodation DOES NOT HAVE AIR CONDITIONING, so in the summer, it will get hot, very hot. Also in the winter it gets extremely cold at night, this year it reached -9C, but is generally around -3C. There is a notice in some of the accomodation telling you to switch the heating off at night time, the time when it's needed most, if you keep it on, they will charge you extra for it. But, they also say, if you feel cold, then they can give you extra blankets! Make what you want of that...

So, Egnatia tells you that you can do your PPL in 28 days. Therefore they provide you with 28 days accomodation. In Greece there are 9 PPL written exams. These have to be taken in Athens, that is a 7 hour drive away, or a 1 hour flight. If you want to fly, you will have to pay for that yourself, else there is the 7 hour drive. The PPL exams can only be sat ONE DAY A MONTH, and the session only runs for 4 hours. So, unless you are superman, there is no way you can sit the exams in one session, you will have to come back, yep, that means you will be spending more than the 28 days accomodation, and you WILL be charged for it. Also, the Greek CAA (HCAA) is extremely unorganised, simple things take ages, for example, when you finish your training, expect to wait months to receive your licence. If you are waiting for a commercial licence, you won't be able to apply for a job before you have your licence in hand. But, back on subject. As other students can confirm, the HCAA PPL Exams contain a lot of material from ATPL level. Many students learn this the hard way and end up failing the first sitting through no fault of their own. They did study the correct syllabus. The HCAA just decide to move the goal posts. So, you will have to wait another month for a resit, that's going to cost you more accomodation.

ATPL Groundschool, apparently the hardest and most stressful part of your training. Egnatia Aviation use CATS study guides. In the last module (from what I understand this ran from September to November). The Groundschool Instructor just decided that he wouldn't turn up. Egnatia scrambled around to find a replacement and Dr Stuart Smith (who runs CATS, and is also suppose to be Egnatia's Head of Training) turned up. This current module, started in January. The Groundschool instructor didn't turn up again. One month went by, there was no sight of any instructor. Now, they have an Professor from a University in Thessaloniki that comes Saturday, Sunday and Monday. The rest of the week the ATPL students are left to their own devices. Of course, they are still being charged for the In-house training. The Head of Training, Dr Stuart Smith, seems to have abandoned the school. He has an office at the school, but has not been here since November last year, and from what I understand, he is refusing to come for some reason.

The reason for this post is that I am sick and tired of all the broken promises and the things that never happen at Egnatia (there has even been instructors at Egnatia that have left because they didn't keep up their end of the deal). The management need to wake up and listen to the students.

I hope this post strikes a chord with them and I hope it gets better in the future.

It seems that the age-old cliche is true;

You Get What You Pay For.

[eurojunkie]

Jetfive

Thanks for your post, very much appreciated. Hopefully the fact that you have made this "public knowledge" will improve conditions for the future. It has certainly made me think twice! Good luck.

[PicMas]

What did you expect? that things would run smoothly and you would get your certificates in a timely manner at a discounted price?

c'mon, you are dealing with a Greek flight school, that should be enough warning. Don't go there or any of the spanish schools for that matter.

I have been corresponding with Egnatia and Aerodynamics Malaga, what a waste of time. Poorly educated staff!!!

I hope this serves as a reminder NOT to go to southern Europe, and if you do... DO NOT!! pay in advance, gives you the option to vote with your feet WHEN they don't honor their promises.

Do not accept extra rent charges as a consequence of their poor planning!

[wbryce]

JetFive,

It probably takes balls to stand up and put your concerns out. At the end of the day your paying for a service and if it isn't delivered then you have the right to express your concern. I probably made a good decision in the end by not going to Egnatia by the looks of things, I would've started today infact or maybe not depending how their ATPL instructor crisis is. Its always the risk by choosing a new provider. I hope Egnatia do turn out to be a creditable provider as I did enjoy visiting them and It would be nice to do some touring of the greek islands in the future.

Hang in tight JetFive and let us know how you get on with Egnatia. If not then maybe you should consider cutting your losses and doing the UK route. It may cost you a little bit more but not as much if you continue and things go sour in Greece.

Was also interested to read this from Billiebob in another thread:
Any member state may choose to ignore the requirements of JAR-FCL and Greece has clearly, and unsurprisingly, elected to do so in accepting the UK CAA exams without a formal agreement with the UK CAA, in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.065(b).
Whlist this is in the financial interests of Greek FTOs, such as Egnatia, it is not in compliance with JAR-FCL and you should be aware that any other member state would be quite within its rights to refuse to recognise a licence issued under these conditions.

[matt85]

"What did you expect? that things would run smoothly and you would get your certificates in a timely manner at a discounted price?

Yes, is that wrong? Or should I just blindly pay my £70k and go to Oxford? Thats the most expensive so it must be the best? Correct? Stapleford is obviously rubbish as well then by that reckoning.


c'mon, you are dealing with a Greek flight school, that should be enough warning. Don't go there or any of the spanish schools for that matter.

Do you have any justification for this comment or are you just a complete xenophobe?


I have been corresponding with Egnatia and Aerodynamics Malaga, what a waste of time. Poorly educated staff!!!

The directors have both held senior management/executive positions in UK companies. The office staff were educated at university (one in the UK)and know the company inside out. What exactly is so challenging that these people cant help you with?


I hope this serves as a reminder NOT to go to southern Europe, and if you do... DO NOT!! pay in advance, gives you the option to vote with your feet WHEN they don't honor their promises.

At Egnatia theres no obligation to pay any more than the cost of your next flight in advance at no financial penalty. If you can find anywhere more flexible than that feel free to let us know.


Do not accept extra rent charges as a consequence of their poor planning!"

Ok, I agree with this.

I DO agree with a lot of whats been said here but like any new start up there is teething problems. However, if you can tell me where you're going to do a PPL in brand new a/c with seriously good instructors and perfect weather for less than £100p/h please let me know and I'll go there instead. Ok, so Egnatia is not perfect and a lot of improvements need to be made but Im sure Oxford/Cabair/Stapleford/CTC/Cranfield/AnyOtherGenericFlightSchool students are all p1ssed off about stuff at times as well.

Its not all bad.


Cheers,

Matt.

[PicMas]

The directors have both held senior management/executive positions in UK companies. The office staff were educated at university (one in the UK)and know the company inside out. What exactly is so challenging that these people cant help you with?

blah blah blah - so has my grandma.
None of your business what the challenge is, I bet with only one twin they don't get the job done.

Now go back to your 0-fATPL studies. Voice your opinion when you actually have some experience to back it - Like the senior management

...I heard about that really cheap flight school in Turkey, bet they are good too

[matt85]

Quote:


The directors have both held senior management/executive positions in UK companies. The office staff were educated at university (one in the UK)and know the company inside out. What exactly is so challenging that these people cant help you with?
blah blah blah - so has my grandma.
None of your business what the challenge is, I bet with only one twin they don't get the job done.

Now go back to your 0-fATPL studies. Voice your opinion when you actually have some experience to back it - Like the senior management

...I heard about that really cheap flight school in Turkey, bet they are good too

blah blah blah... Why respond at all if you arent willing to listen what current students are saying about the place, good and bad? Selective reading isnt necessarily a good character trait in a pilot.

My opinions of Egnatia are formed through being in and around the school all day, every day, yours through...what exactly? A bad emailing experience? Sounds awful.

Please just stop wasting your time posting in this thread until you have something worthwhile and FACTUAL to post in it. We dont want rumours, hearsay and massive generalisations about Egnatia, we want the clear picture.

In the mean time I will get back to my 0-fATPL study. You can get back to Flight Sim X. I hear its really good.

Cheers,

Matt.

[Speed bird 002]

After reading the post slightly above, I am going to be in contact with Egnatia tommorrow and ask for my deposit back. I expect to finish as stated on their website or atleast F******* :mad: have fulltime instructors for ARPL groundschool. :ugh: :ugh: Not a uni lecturer with minimal aviation experience or even none :*

I think im gonna get my PPL and hours done at Orlando flight training and the rest at Cabair through their Pathfinder scheme. :ok:

Good job i didnt commit any money with them. Thanks so much for the information.

[PicMas]

And I'm sure the CLEAR picture will come from a newbie with experience from a single school:hmm:

I prefer FS2004, the systems requirement suit my computer better.

My opinions of Egnatia are formed through being in and around the school all day, every day, yours through...what exactly

And your basis of comparison is based on???

[matt85]

I'm not directly comparing Egnatia to anywhere,

I know all schools have problems and Egnatia is no different to any other. I went to Stapleford in the summer and one student was living in a tent because they had no accommodation. Im sure they didnt say to him 'come back, we're full', because they are a business like any other. And nobody is questioning Stapleford.

I'ts exactly the same at Egnatia. Its not perfect, but where is?

Cheers,

Matt.

[georgez]

Jetfive’s post gives me the opportunity to share some information with all those who are really serious about their training and are desperately searching for any information based on personal experiences and facts. I am not interested to reply to those who in the absence of any factual or intelligent information, result to cheap unfounded slurs. They tend to confuse those that they claim want to help.

First of all, Jetfive, you did not have to get a new pprune id for the post. As I have mentioned in previous posts everybody is entitled to voice their own opinion, provided that they do not claim to represent the company. In any case, it is very obvious who you are based on the current mixture of students, style of writing etc. Makes no difference and changes nothing, apart from the fact that instructors and management are always available to the students, both during office hours and outside, 7 days a week. I do not think there are many schools that can claim that. I will try and comment on all the points you raised here from the company’s prospective of course.

Internet access – nowhere in the sales literature, web pages, emails, terms and conditions Egnatia Aviation states or promises to provide Internet access (paid or unpaid) at the accommodation and we have never said that we are working on it. (You knew this before you decided to come here). Instead, we provide free, unlimited access at the school and plenty of areas to sit, both in private and with other students. The school wants the students to spend most of their time at the school. This is where you learn most, not in your room. Not only you are at your instructor’s disposal which can result in extra flying slots but you also learn a lot more than you think from other students who are in more advanced training modules than yourself. As far as the evenings are concerned, there is at least one Internet café nearby. As far as Internet service disruption you are making a big issue about, is not even one hour a week on average and it is due to service abuse by your fellow students. The fact that some students may or may not have Internet access and why, is irrelevant to you and I am not going to remove it from them because of you. The vast majority of them are studying ATPL Theory and they need it for their studies more than most.

Aeroplanes – what does it matter to a student how many Twins or Singles the school has and how many may or may not be operational at any given time? What should matter most is whether there is an aircraft available to you or your instructor when is needed and that it is properly equipped and safe. Leave the rest to the company – that is what we are here for. You are implying that there serious delays because of the single twin and that students do not finish on time or not at all. Who? Is that what you heard of do you know of anybody specific? As I am not in the office now until Sunday I will publish on Monday the initials of all the people, the training they did, when they started and when they finished for all to see. What should matter to you is the aircraft and instructor availability and by controlling the number of students, their starting dates and type of training required, we make sure that there are no delays. We can not of course control the weather that as you know affects everybody’s training.

Accommodation – there are various types, shapes and sizes. Why is it an issue in the middle of the winter that there is no air conditioning in some of the accommodation? Shouldn’t you wait until the summer to complain? About the heating. It gets ‘extremely’ cold at night? How many nights? You live in the UK and a place in Greece by the sea gets extremely cold at night? What did you wear outside today? Yes there is a reminder in some of the rooms about heating bills (it should be in all actually) so that people do not waste energy and money. If you all do, you will pay more as we will be forced to increase our prices to cover the extra cost. Quite simple really. Do you know how many people have been charged extra? None, ever.

PPL – yes there is an issue with the PPL theory exam questions but it is only transitional and has not yet affected anybody’s 0 – ATPL course, and never will. More than 10 PPLs have been issued in the last 6 months – again I can publish initials. I am sure Jetfive can find out who they are. We are working with the Hellenic CAA to improve the current situation and adopt more modern procedures. By the way, we will never charge for any extra accommodation resulting from delays we are responsible for. As it happens, from Monday there will be some changes that will greatly improve the recent situation – I am in a series of meetings tomorrow with the HCAA to discuss the finer points before they are announced to the students. They also include the licence issue, which although is not as dramatic as it is presented in the post, the timescales can be and will be reduced. It always take time for a license to be issued as there are a number of checks that must be done, especially as many people nowadays have training and ratings not only from other parts of Europe but from all over the world.

ATPL Groundschool – the first module ran as expected with the best possible tutor, Stuart Smith. Yes, the instructor recruited in the UK to replace Stuart once he completed his scheduled subject did not turn up, but it is testimony to Egnatia Aviation’s and Stuart’s commitment that he cancelled other arrangements in order to complete the stage. The percentages achieved by the students and the first time passes say so. Stage 2 started late, again due to a UK instructor not turning up for personal reasons, so after rejecting many non experienced ex-ATPL students as a stop gap we decided to become self-sufficient, so we restructured the stage and recruited in the first instance a very experienced university tutor with 15 years aviation training at all levels (including military jets). The ATPL course will be completed on time and the students will achieve the high marks we expect them to. In order to avoid similar incidents in the future Egnatia Aviation is taking the appropriate steps as we speak. There is no danger that any anybody will loose their time or money for that matter. We do not ask for big deposits or money for things we have not delivered and we never will. There are also no issues with Stuart Smith. He is still a valuable member of Egnatia Aviation.

The only problem I have with this post is the way some things are written to imply dreadful things. For example ‘instructor’s have left …’. One instructor left few months ago for various reasons that have nothing to do with this post, but doesn’t this happen everywhere?

One last point – Egnatia Aviation provides good quality training at very low prices. Your money is spent on the aircraft, the instructors, the facilities and the things you need to get the best training. If you want fast internet access everywhere, luxury apartments etc you will have to pay for them – you do that elsewhere. You choose.

George
Egnatia Aviation

[dimitris_m]

I've just started, 4 days ago, my 0-fATPL training in the school and even though i have been following this thread for quite some time, i decided to post after reading jetfive's comments.

The way i see it, it all depends on whether u see the glass half empty or half full. Of course the school like every school has its problems but in the end, i believe the pros pretty much outweight the cons. The most important thing to me is intentions. To be more specific, the intention of the managment to improve every aspect of the education we get. The directors are well informed of the matters that concern us and during my limited time here, i understand that they dont just sit back and let things go with the flow, they keep working on the right direction.

The school is a new one and all of us who have already joined and are going to join know that, there are little things here and there who could get better but at the end of the day, i dont regret for a single minute my decision to join Egnatia. Im getting way more than i paid for.

[scroggs]

This is another school thread where the discussion has drifted from the obtaining of professional licences toward PPL stuff. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have an entire forum dedicated to PPLs and private flying. It is called, wait for it, Private Flying (http://www.pprune.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=63). This forum, as its name implies, is about the study for and achievement of professional licences only. For the hard of reading, that means CPL/IR and above. I will accept discussion about pre-CPL hour-building (for which there are several geographically-related threads) but PPLs are not appropriate here.

This thread will now be closed. It will remain accessible for those who wish to refer to it, but, for further discussion of Egnatia's professional licence training, please start a new thread.

Scroggs