Oh No! Its St Maarten time again

[BOAC]

This is where all those sandblasting pictures live.

[WhoNeedsEngines]

Any of you professional pilots got any comments about this photograph, taken on the beach on the approach to Princess Juliana Airport of Saint Maarten in the Carribean? Looks a bit adjacent to me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/f2frbtz/Flying/ABitLowCropped.jpg
Apologies for the rather poor quality of the photo - it was scanned in from a page torn from a magazine.

[The Greaser]

Not sure a windbreaker would be much good on that beach! Seriously though, nowadays you can make really convincing fakes, keep working on it.

[cortilla]

I don't think it's a fake actually. seen many piccies of st maarten and they all land pretty low over the beach. just look on some websites that post piccies and look for st maarten, and you'll se many of them.

[Otterman]

True a guy with photoshop and too much spare time can do amazing things. This picture is of an approach into St. Maarten. Having flown into there at least a couple of times a year for the last fifteen, on a Boeing 747-300, it is an approach that lends itself to sneaking in a bit lower than normal. The runway is a shade over 2000 meters long. The approach is a VORD which gives good guidance, but the last bit is of course visual. The fence has been knocked down at the beginning of the runway on two occasions the last ten years. There are some amazing videos on the internet of widebodies leaving from there and blowing some of the locals into the sea, who were trying to hang onto the fence for fun. I am sure you can find them in other threads just search St. Maarten. Regards O.

[wasdale]

Not necessarily a fake. It is quite easy to get such an effect simply by using a telephoto lens.

[surely not]

it's real............

[PPRuNe Radar]

Already been covered ad nauseum on PPRuNe. Another 'recent' discussion in the latter part of this thread.

St Maarten (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155274)

Or have a look at the bar from where you can take such pics, they have a few photos in their gallery ;)

Sunset Beach Bar (http://www.sunsetbeachbar.com./)

[c130jbloke]

Have a look at this !!!!!!!!!!

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=359487

Captions please.

c130jb

[Art Field]

I know you are keen to get down for a swim, Co, but ---!!!!!.

[Wycombe]

That's St. Maarten (SXM) in the Carribean.

Simply hundreds of photos like this of the place on airliners.net.

The threshold is literally the other side of the fence. There is high ground at the other end IIRC, just to add to the fun.

Anorak off, it's a bit warm today!

Edited to add caption "Heard there's some really top totty, we'll have a look on the way in"

[mbga9pgf]

Sorry to spoil the fun, but think its a fake. Check the port main gear, looks as if its being retracted or extended...

[Fox3snapshot]

Having landed at that airfield on two occassions after our BVI frenzies and peered out the window at that very bar, it looks pretty possible to me!

But not sure what it has to do with the military forum.....:confused:

[Kestrel_909]

I doubt it is fake, even if it was, there isn't anything particularly special to make it stand out against the other SXM photos.

Interesting point about the gear, I have seen that before somewhere.

[Captain Airclues]

mgb

The gear is not being retracted or extended. That is the normal 'tilt' which, as well as allowing the gear to fit into the bay, also puts the aircraft into ground mode when it untilts on landing. Ground mode, amongst other things, allows full spoiler extension rather than the limited extension in flight. The aircraft has flap 30 set, so gear retraction in this configuration would cause a loud horn to sound on the flight deck.
Having seen many photos of this airfield, and flown with people who have operated there, I have no reason to believe that it is a fake.

Airclues

[seacue]

Surely real, though somewhat lower than typical. I think it's with a telephoto lens which distorts the distance. The usually-shown low approach is an AF 747 taken from the other side.

One of my favorites at SXM on A...... is looking down on a shiny American Airlines 757 from a top floor of the hotel beside the end of the strip. Transparent blue water, ahhh......

[Tigs2]

If it was me stood underneath, i would have hit the deck or been running at this stage.

[flipster]

50' RA over the threshold? I doubt it!
Impressive, nonetheless.

[slingsby]

http://www2.flightlevel350.com/videos/1126401463.wmv

I have just watched this video, does anyone else think the bizjet was a bit low !! Stunning departures though.

I think there is a car roof or two going to be attached to someones gear soon, if not worse.

[BANANASBANANAS]

I operated into/out of SXM regularly a few years ago and it is a spectacular airport to fly into and out of. I think that a long lens has dramatised the effects a little ........ but only a little.

Hows the constabulary Slingsby?

[slingsby]

I know a long lens may give the optical illusion, but still that couldn't have cleared the fence by much.

BB check yr PM

[Dream Land]

Link not working for me.:confused:

[Otterman]

Hello Slingsby,
Having flown 747's into there on many occassions I can tell you that precision is the name of the game. There is no ILS installed, so it is basically a visual approach. There is a VOR/DME approach if there are some low clouds in the area. There are some interesting pictures out there. The attached link is on the topic of st. maarten on a previous thread.

One detail I would like to share is that the road behind the runway is so close to the fence that it actually has traffic lights, and a barrier when large aircraft are on the approach. We had to get the all clear first to make sure none of the tourists or locals were standing near the fence before we applied take-off thrust. There is a very neat video of this not being adhered to and people getting blown from the fence all the way into the sea.
Greetings O.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=92706

[Seaton Approach]

"Skipper, look at the tits on that......!"

[Doors to Automatic]

1. It's not a fake

2. It's not particularly low for the location

To see more search airliners.net or click on to "most popular pictures of all time" on the same website. You will see a lot worse than this!!!

[Runway 31]

One of the highlights of my last time over there was sitting in the Sunset Beach bar taking pics, eating a burger and drinking a beer while my wife snorkled off the beach. Heaven

[Farrell]

1. It is a fake (albeit just lowered slightly for greater effect)

2. Put it into Photoshop and bring it up to 400% zoom. Check the nosewheels and main gear. The white rings around the tires are the giveaway....still trying to get around that telltale.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Certainly not fake
I have seen my friends photos
with B757 leaving at vortex trail accross the water
They are nearly as low when they come in over the lagoon at Corfu and you can sit on the resaurant balcony and look down on the planes

G-I-B

[con-pilot]

Farrell I really don’t believe it is a fake, could be, but I really doubt it.

I have spent too many evenings and nights sitting at the Sun Set Beach bar (see www.sunsetbeachbar.com.) consuming numerous beers and munching on really good food watching some folks come in really low.

There is a picture floating around the internet of an Air France 74 coming across the road lower, a lot lower, than the picture of the KLM 74. The Air France picture was taken years ago before the advent of photo-shop software. There were some reports that the Air France 74 took out the fence by the road. However, I have no idea if the fence story is true.

[Farrell]

Maybe you're right, sir .....just goes to show you though doesn't it, that in this age of photo editing packages we never really know for sure what's real anymore.

[Kestrel_909]

Are you for real Farrell?










Well, it had to be asked:E

[Farrell]

Ok folks; I take it back! It's not fake.

I have had a look at the photographer's only post on airliners.net of this aircraft.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=881708&WxsIERv=Obrvat%20747-406&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=XYZ%20-%20Eblny%20Qhgpu%20Nveyvarf&QtODMg=Cuvyvcfohet%20%2F%20Fg.%20Znnegra%20-%20Cevaprff%20Whyvnan%20%28FKZ%20%2F%20GAPZ%29&ERDLTkt=Argureynaqf%20Nagvyyrf&ktODMp=Whyl%209%2C%202005&BP=0&WNEb25u=Fira%20Gboretgr&xsIERvdWdsY=CU-OSA&MgTUQtODMgKE=Bire%20gur%20Pnevoorna%20jngref%21&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=23921&NEb25uZWxs=2005-07-18%2011%3A09%3A06&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=26372%2F969&static=yes&width=1280&height=865&sok=JURER%20%20%28cubgbtencure%20%3D%20%27Fira%20Gboretgr%27 %29%20%20beqre%20ol%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=1&prev_id=&next_id=864701&size=L

Same date and time, but different angle, and it looks like it could have gotten that low.

Head bowed in humility - I am at your mercy


(and while I'm here....
in this shot, is that a nasty crease in the paintwork?)
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=945822&size=L&width=1200&height=812&sok=&photo_nr=&prev_id=&next_id=

[El Grifo]

The point relating to distortion due to the use of a telephoto lense is a crock also.

This phenomenon happens when you are shooting directly at a subject. Only the perspective is fore-shortened. It would not and could not affect the apparent distance between the aircraft and the ground.

Sorry guys :8 :ok: :8

[Byrna]

I have videos of planes taking off and landing from Princess Juliana airport in Sint-Maarten (SXM/TNCM) and this is one crazy landing spot!

A LITTLE STORY TO TELL which I lived through (*phew*):

I am not experienced being so close to jets and I was standing RIGHT BEHIND a Continental Airlines 737NG (-700 or -800 I believe) on the beach right behind the runway when it started its take-off thrust...

... ummmm... not a good idea folks! I got my towel blown into the sea (about 100 feet), sand came at me like a sand storm in the Sahara and I rushed immediately to the side. No injuries. That's a "jet blast" I think :))


John

[NO DELAY EXPECTED]

Is this how KLM fly into St Maarten all the time ?
I think they will end up taking the fence with them one day !
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1078027&TopOfYest=yes (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1078027&TopOfYest=yes)

Anybody who operates in there want to comment , do you really not fly the PAPIS in a widebody ?

[WindSheer]

Nothing wrong with a slightly early touchdown to maximise your decision and stopping time.....even if you do clip the fence!!:eek:

[preset]

Are you sure it's not a really short takeoff, you know, really light weight, strong HWC :}

[Beanbag]

I wouldn't mind betting that parallax / depth compression from a long lens are making this look worse than it was.

[11Fan]

At Virgin, you get a massage. With KLM, you get a haircut.

[Groundloop]

Nothing wrong with a slightly early touchdown to maximise your decision and stopping time.....even if you do clip the fence!!:eek:

Except landing short of the threshold is technically illegal!

[DHC6tropics]

Well, I didn't see the aircraft land but I did see it's skid marks. The mains touched down approximately 100 feet before the threshold...

Too make this a little more interesting, the PAPI's were malfunctioning that day and giving erronious readings!!!!

[DrKev]

I wouldn't mind betting that parallax / depth compression from a long lens are making this look worse than it was.
There are no shortage of photos on the net from different positions showing this very landing. The aircraft is clearly lower over the fence than normal landings would normally be over the piano keys.
...the PAPI's were malfunctioning that day and giving erronious readings!
I'm no expert at all, but I though PAPIs were purely optical. How can they give erroneous readings (if they hadn't been misaligned)?

[DHC6tropics]

yes, somehow they became misaligned...and for a day or two the Tower left them on even though pilots (including myself) were telling them that they were wrong.

[chevvron]

PAPI's can easily become mis-aligned by jet wake.

[PitotTube]

what is going on here? Pass the threshold at 50 ft .. hmmm.. is that 50ft from the flightdeck or the gear or the middle of the aircraft...
anyway this is way too early landing in my opinion

http://p.airliners.net/photos/middle/4/7/7/1078774.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1078774/L/

[VP8]

Ahhhhhhh!!

Another classic St Maarten shot :E

VEEPS

[LeeH88]

St Maarten :ok:

Theres a couple of different photos of this landing. On this one you see theres actually a beach just there, haha.

[BOAC]

It is obviously 'silly season' again and you have all forgotten how to use 'Search'.:ugh:

I have combined a few Spectators' threads here.

There are several other threads on St Maarten spread around in other forums.

[EGLD]

Spectacular? yes.
Safe? surely not?
hhttp://images1.jetphotos.net/images/img2/a/ADJ_SXM_020706_PH-BFG_2.jpg.29076.jpg

[magpienja]

I would not care if it is safe or not I would love to stand there when a 747 comes in, is it st martin.

Nick.

[perkin]

I would not care if it is safe or not I would love to stand there when a 747 comes in, is it st martin.

Nick.

agreed, but its a bit nuts when its so close you can almost touch it! scary, but a hell of a rush I'd expect! :}

[Doors to Automatic]

Tea and buiscuits with the chief pilot, surely!?

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1078027/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1078774/M/

[WexCan]

They don't seem all too short in the second pic, though I bet those fence huggers thought differently. :}

[Manual Reversion]

Hope he was on TA rather than RA when the photo ship went into formation! But there again it might be a photo montage!

[Max Angle]

Considering the touchdown zone will well past the piano keys I reckon they look b****y short in the second picture, must have been pretty close to taking out that fence with the wheels.

[galaxy flyer]

They certainly did NOT cross the fence at 50 feet, now did they


GF

[bfisk]

or it might just be taken from an angle that would make the 747 appear very low? There's thousands of piccies from St. Marteen like that, btw. Neat-ish :D

[podbreak]

what a ripping short-fielder! congrats fellas, thats impressive (and only slightly illegal).

[bubbers44]

One of our pilots landed a tad short of the threshold of our most critical runways and ended up back at the training center. Wonder if they did.

[anartificialhorizon]

What I would like to know is, from what were these photos taken from ???

Tall building , helicopter.......I know a zoom lens was probably used but so close to the approach and above.....Is there high ground overlooking the app?

Cheers !:O

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

Sandblasting the Sunbathers?

What on earth is wrong with this well executed little biddy short field landing and wherein lies the illegality?
I have no doubt that, due to high speed inbound traffic behind him, The Flying Dutchman was trying to make the high speed exit and an expeditious turn off!:cool:

[Pilot Pete]

The view from the flightdeck must have been 'interesting'. What instrument approach does that runway have (if any)? If it is an ILS then they must surely have been well below the glideslope.

PP

[EGLD]

My point is, there's a reason you can't get this close to the threshold at any other airport with 747's landing, is it overlooked with St.Maarten because there is no option, and the revenue from Jumbo's full of passengers is too much to lose?

747's passing just feet overhead of cars and pedestrians doesn't seem right to me

http://images1.jetphotos.net/images/k/KLM_PH-BFG.jpg.17822.jpg

[PPRuNe Pop]

I agree with BOAC. It is silly season on St Maarten. These pics appear almost with monotonous regularity. As he says, use search and you will find them. This thread is really unnecessary but we will leave it for a while.

[MarcJF]

This pic can't be real, can it? Landing so close to the start of the runway, there are no tyre marks etc.

[Capt Claret]

Is it going to make the threshhold?

[A2QFI]

I am no expert but the first picture has a look of a montage or some sort of Photoshop manipulation. The 2nd one the photographer is standing on a very solid looking structure which looks dangerously close to the runway. The a/c's port wingtip is only just clearing it. Presumably it must be legal but it doesn't look safe - to me

[chevvron]

It's a hotel you idiot!

[Superpilot]

The photo is real. It was taken by a respected photographer and posted on Airliners.net. The landing is one of closest (to the fence) ever. The PIC lands it extremely short of the numbers. More here: http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?&placesearch=Philipsburg%20%2F%20St.%20Maarten%20-%20Princess%20Juliana%20%28SXM%20%2F%20TNCM%29&nr_of_rows=1744&first_this_page=15&page_limit=15&sort_order=photo_id+DESC&thumbnails=&engine_version=&nr_pages=117&page=

[Felix Saddler]

you gotta have some balls to stand over by that fence.

[DHC6tropics]

Considering that KLM's skid marks are now the first set of tire marks on the runway and are well before the threshold (I will take a pic if ppl want when I get back to work)...This was an EXTREMELY early touchdown. I wouldn't dare land that short and I fly a plane a fraction of the size.

This pic actually shows the exact point where the left main touches the ground (and the other mains shortly after). It corresponds with the exact place that the tire marks start. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1078774/M/

[Kestrel_909]

Always some amusing responses when people see St.Maarten photos for the first time. Yes it is real, yes they do come in low but this was a tad lower than most and touched down short of the threshold.

[Rainboe]

The main gear looks just a few feet off the tarmac, so it must have passed VERY close to the guy bending over behind the fence. He must have come very close to being decapitated or the 747 was descending very steeply for an almighty touchdown- I would guess he's evacuating his digestive system bending over like that! Still having trouble visualising this- the guy is under the APU, yet the wheels are about to hit the under-run area. Even after 18 years flying 747s, I could never judge it this fine. Definitley an interview in the Flight Managers' Office!

[perkin]

I could never judge it this fine. Definitley an interview in the Flight Managers' Office!

Is this an instance would a go-around and another attempt would have been more appropriate, or is it a very difficult one to call at this location, given that it seems its a visual approach as no ILS here? Surely the PF must, however, have known he/she was heading towards a short touchdown, or is there a certain point on the approach when its too late to call a GA? KL crew should be pretty familiar with this place tho, no?

[aw8565]

Standing by the fence on landing is bad, but takeoff must be worse...!

Check out this video from ebaumsworld. Also gives a good indication just how short that landing was! And yes those are people being blown into the sea! I think it was filmed from the same spot the photo was taken also....

http://ebaumsworld.com/2006/07/planeblow.html

[Nozzer]

This thread was closed on Saturday!!

It's definitely a fix. There's no vestage of shade or shadow under the aircraft, and unless it's totally transparent that would be extremely difficult to achieve!

[Groundloop]

:hmm:

What on earth is wrong with this well executed little biddy short field landing and wherein lies the illegality?


The illegality lies in the fact that the section of runway BEFORE the white threshold line is NOT licensed for landing. And it is illegal to land a public transport aircraft on an unlicensed runway.

[EGLD]

Always some amusing responses when people see St.Maarten photos for the first time. Yes it is real, yes they do come in low but this was a tad lower than most and touched down short of the threshold.

It's not the first time I've seen St.Maarten photos, and I know that approach is low, but the original thread starting question still stands, even with a normal landing

Is it safe?

[EGLF_base]

I agree with BOAC. It is silly season on St Maarten. These pics appear almost with monotonous regularity. As he says, use search and you will find them. This thread is really unnecessary but we will leave it for a while.

true enough... all to much about the pictures of the landings...

how about this video of a take off...

Edit: That link locked up my computer! :ouch:

[GK430]

There is no ILS on Rwy 09 (nor 27).
I will try and post another pic later today, (see some on the sticky thread) but west of the airfield boundary fence there is a small twin track road, a thin low concrete buffer to keep the sand off the road and then the beach. The sand on the extended rwy c/l is lower than the remaining level of the beach left & right of centre - it gets blown away and even behind 75 deps the sea ripples for a good 100+ metres.

There is no traffic control on the road - fortunately, apart from the odd school bus, it is lighlt trafficked by cars/4 x 4's.

The "heavies" backtrack full length and the power starts being applied on the turn - and despite the brainless hanging on to the fence.....it is wise to take serious cover away from the jetblast.
Warning signs abound!

Watch Lear Jet arrivals in particular - very flat. As for DHC6tropics - I got one shot where I could just about touch the gear - but hey, you floated.....

There are so many options for photographic locations. There are two timeshare blocks seen in the background of most SXM pics and the Sonesta Hotel resort further back. You can look down on the runway from several vantage points.

Looking forward to my next trip:D

[EI896]

hmmm, I don't see any lights there on the approach to the one near the beach, so does this mean a/c are restricted to the day only?

But the KLM B744 I think is real because the sky looks to be overcast and there is a slight sahdow of a widebody a/c underneath so??? But I think it's real, not a fake for me.

[seacue]

What has not been recently mentioned is that the SXM runway is not the longest in the world - about 2km. There is water at both ends. And there is a 300-metre-high hill about 2km straight off the east end.

[EGLF_base]

true enough... all to much about the pictures of the landings...

how about this video of a take off...

Edit: That link locked up my computer! :ouch:

who changed my post to remove the link??

it doesnt lock my machine - for those who want to try again...

T'other mod did that, but I've done it again as the link is to a web site which might entice PPRune Pop (and others) to click on some links of which PPRune does not approve. Please find another suitable link or do not post that one again.

Boac

PS: Found a slightly better link http://ebaumsworld.com/2006/07/planeblow.html

PPS This site is LOADED with cookies - beware!

[GK430]

There is no App Ltg on the 09 end - and only puddle jumpers approach on 27.
09 has fairly standard runway lighting and from memory PAPI's on both sides. There is a VOR DME just to the right of the 09 Thr. - which is presumably calibrated to read 0 at the TDZ.
The airfield closes at 23:00L and re-opens at 07:00L (I think)

It's a fun place:ok: But you can't hire anything from SXM, although it may be possible from the airfield on the french side.

[misd-agin]

[quote=GK430]There is no ILS on Rwy 09 (nor 27).
I will try and post another pic later today, (see some on the sticky thread) but west of the airfield boundary fence there is a small twin track road, a thin low concrete buffer to keep the sand off the road and then the beach. The sand on the extended rwy c/l is lower than the remaining level of the beach left & right of centre - it gets blown away and even behind 75 deps the sea ripples for a good 100+ metres.

The "heavies" backtrack full length and the power starts being applied on the turn - and despite the brainless hanging on to the fence.....it is wise to take serious cover away from the jetblast.
Warning signs abound!
**********************************************************

Flew into SXM last month with a female FO that had never flown there before. She got the landing. Mentioned that her husband, Continental FO, had taken a video of planes departing from there. Said he filmed the sign "caution - jet blast" and then started filming the departure. Image starts shaking...boom, over he goes. "I thought I was clear of the jet blast...":ouch:

[GK430]

Hi misd-agin - glad you're surviving!!

A few self explanatory pics. The BN-2 guy was real entertainment:= :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/LG1225.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/LG1274.jpg

I just had to get under a low level 74.
And no doubt a few pilots who themselves need to learn more about the hazards of RB211's etc.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/LG1275.jpg

[sixmilehighclub]

Another one.....

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c246/sixmieshigh/eal.jpg

[PAXboy]

In this case, it will be deemed as safe because - warning signs around the area and ... it's the only airport on the island!

If an a/c were to belly flop on arrival or departure - would you lose more or less people on the ground/in the water, than if you had a similar accident at Heathrow/Paris/New York? You would lose fewer people and so it is safer than any major city.

[LRdriver II]

All these pics are real. I used to fly a Lear 24 out of there and as such spent many a day sitting at the Sunset beach bar.
Yes its a buzz sitting in the sand watching a 747 bearing down on you (Lie down behind road/beach barrier as the residual thrust will still sand blast the hell out of you.

No ILS, all V/D on to a short field with water at both ends and a mountain off one end.

[misd-agin]

Considering that KLM's skid marks are now the first set of tire marks on the runway and are well before the threshold (I will take a pic if ppl want when I get back to work)...This was an EXTREMELY early touchdown. I wouldn't dare land that short and I fly a plane a fraction of the size.

This pic actually shows the exact point where the left main touches the ground (and the other mains shortly after). It corresponds with the exact place that the tire marks start. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1078774/M/

Photos are taken from a hotel. Actually the roof of the second hotel!!!

Check out this photo - one guy on the beach is starting to run north and the two guys by the fence have chickened out and are ducking.

I've stood on the beach while the a/c are landing. Makes you feel vulnerable.

[EGLD]

I asked unanswered before, and will again. Do people seriously think this airport is safe?

[Kak Klaxon]

Before the advent of buying type ratings young pilots used to have to wonder the earth in search of twin time,I last landed a whacked out BN 2a here in 1992 and of all the destinations in the Windes this is just about as safe as it gets,the photos are real and the beach is a lot of fun.

St Barts was so bad that only a select few were alowed in there, the night procedure into Montserrat made me go grey at 22,fly at a 2000 foot cliff then turn hard left(90 deg) when you saw the tiny runway,OK at 65 kts but LIAT did it in the Dash 8,respect.

No radar,planes older than you,earthquakes,mad expats, red stripe, mountgay rum,Islands that expode,giant frogs,giant spiders,land crabs,snakes,red ants in your pants at 3000 feet,snow birds,200 usd to clear customs(cash in hand),every letter from home been opened,6 usd for 200 State Express 555s,goat water,Jumbie and Soca,welcome to the third world.

Also the nicest people in the world.

[EGLD]

I don't understand that comment BOAC? I embedded a picture in my message, you've said "No links to the site unless there is a picture?"

Here's the pic I was referring to....am I not allowed to embed it?

http://tinyurl.com/yewjbj

[BOAC]

Not quite - you actually linked to the banner ad for airliners.net which is at the top of the every page - that's why. This one is fine.

[EGLD]

Ok thanks, not sure what went wrong, but on my PC the picture I was linking to appeared as an image in my post

Anyhoo......

[GK430]

I'm back on Maho Beach next month and I sure hope Falcon 1DT is going to make another App like that one:=
Never saw one quite so low last time I was there. Have to be sure not to go for the wide angle belly shot though:{

[GK430]

Another from Maho Beach
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/F-HLOV.jpg"

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

That last one's perfectly OK and is going to touch down safely beyond the threshold.

On simulator training for the widebody that I flew - the DC-10 - they stopped it at the 'One Hundred' radio altimeter call and pointed out that the threshold was just vanishing from view i.e. correct. If the threshold was still in sight, you were too low, and should immediately go-around. If it had already disappeared, you were too high, and should again go-around - and you certainly would at this place! It wouldn't surprise me if the 747 has some similar sort of 'radalt check-height' to judge by.

I wonder if the first thing that the KLM captain did on shut-down was to go and make sure that there were no extraneous bits of wire in amongst the wheels? :uhoh:

Ah the lovely Caribbean ... give me gentle old Barbados Grantley Adams any time! :ok:

[GK430]

About to risk life and limb any second. When on the ramp I would never go underneath anything, well not after one nasty incident, so why do I do this:confused:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/LG1580.jpg

:{ Oh no, more sand in the sensor

[treadigraph]

First time I'd seen the pics of Falcon 20 N911DT. Can I assume that there was a fair amount of power on to avoid any futher sink prior to the threshold... otherwise...

[BOAC]

This thread is for pictures relating to St Maarten and thus it is not unreasonable to expect to see SOME identifiable part of that place in the picture. Just ORDINARY aircraft pictures please in the 'Top Ladder' thread at http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=201688 which is where I have moved the last post, having tried with a magnifying glass to see some part of St Maarten:)

[treadigraph]

Not mine I think BOAC mate, any comments to the pics of Falcon 20 N911DT still welcomed I hope... :ok:

[GK430]

Okay BOAC - this one might surprise you - how well do you know the Island of St. Martin or will the location be
St. Maarten:D
Some of the island:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/PrincessJuliana.jpg
On the road into Phillipsburg - near the salt lake
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/Rtoftrack.jpg
Meanwhile back at Juliana
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/JulianaFire.jpg
But there's a happy ending;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/Heinekenranan.jpg

[barit1]

I asked unanswered before, and will again. Do people seriously think this airport is safe?

Oh no, it's the old "safe" vs "not safe" binary logic again...

[Pilot Pete]

I asked unanswered before, and will again. Do people seriously think this airport is safe? Why do you think it is unsafe? There are plenty of harder airfields to get into around the world. You just seem to think this one is 'unsafe' because a few people decide to not heed the warning signs and stand underneath aircraft as they land, some taking photgraphs of the action. This doesn't make the airport unsafe; it may mean that those individuals have made their existence less safe than it would be if they stood a couple of hundred yards left or right of the extended centre line.

The airport has a decent looking runway, instrument approach facility (be it not ILS) fire-fighting to the required category and surveyed terrain (like all commercial fields) to ensure obstacle clearance. If operators follow their briefing material, which has been approved by their regulatory authority (and that overseeing the said airfield) then this airport is perfectly safe. As has been pointed out elsewhere, if the operator chooses to operate outwith his SOPs/ briefing material, then that has the potential to be just as unsafe at London Heathrow, or Amsterdam Schipol or anywhere else.....

PP

[chevvron]

Looks like a nice big radar in a dome in the photo posted by GK430, so why do they do procedural approaches?
Anyway George F Charles (Castries) airport on St Lucia looks a lot scarier to me, not as bad as St Barts though!

[con-pilot]

Speaking as someone who has has operated in and out of St. Maarten more times than I can remember starting with a Jet Commander a long time ago (in the mid 1970s to be precise), various other jet aircraft including the 727 and lately a Falcon 50 and a Falcon 900 I can assure you that the airport is very safe.

I have sacrificed many, many hours of my off time in St. Maarten risking skin cancer from overexposure from the sun's rays and possible liver damage consuming large quantities of beer while sitting at the Sun Set Beach Bar studying and observing aircraft on final approach and landing.

I expect no rewards or acknowledgment from my unselfish actions and endless dedication to this very important study that I took at such a frightful risk to my health and well being. No my reward is that I can allay any fears about the safety of the airport in St. Maarten.

I must however admit that there were times that my intense concentration of observing the arrival of aircraft was some what interrupted by the sudden appearance of young members of the opposite sex wearing thong bikini bottoms and nothing else. However, let assure you that even the sight of 2 to 8 pairs of unclad bosom's belonging to very healthy young ladies could not deter me from my quest regarding the safety of flight. I do admit that I did occasionally miss the odd 747 landing or taking off, just a minor oversight mind you.

However, in interest of safety of flight in or around the St. Maarten airport I feel I should share with all of you something that possibly could affect safety of flight. I have on occasion witness a phenomena that in my humble opinion is rather unsafe to say the least. After 5 or 6 hours of researching the flavors of different beers and intensely observing arriving aircraft I would look up and suddenly see 2 aircraft of the exact same type and color in a very tight formation on final. I would immediately attempt to attract the attention of my fellow bar patrons so they could witness this obvious very dangerous action committed by possibly deranged fellow pilots. On these occasions my fellow bar patrons would appear to be ignoring my request to observe this strange site and move away from me, I could only assume that they were not as interested the safety of flight as I. By the time I returned my view to aircraft in formation, after failing to attract the attention of anyone else, the second aircraft in the formation would have disappeared. There would only be one aircraft on final. In spite of spending many more hours at the Sun Set Beach Bar trying to solve this mystery I could not come up with logical conclusion.

(I did report this to my fellow crew members the next day when I had seen these events and they assured me that I should not take any further action. Perhaps those 9/11 conspiracy people could shed some light on this subject?)

Okay, all kidding aside. I have operated in and out of St. Maarten (SXM) many times and it is a very safe airport. The weather there is nearly always excellent and when an occasional rain shower lowers visibility the shower does not last long.

[babemagnet]

Do not forget to visit the Seamans club in SXM if you are there!
it is great there!

[GK430]

con-pilot, was this the same day that I had a similar experience;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/SXM-Corsair.jpg
But I did not see these beauties at the Sunset B bar...down the road a few km/miles :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/SXM-Miss.jpg
The man in the Twr was talking to these two Islanders, so ma eyes was not deceivin me!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/SXM-BN2.jpg"]
Chevvron - you're not at EGBP are you? The guys n' gals working here are looking after the second highest no. of ATM's in the Caribbean. They seem to cover a large chunk of airspace for the commuters to the s'east of San Juan Centre and beyond.St. Barth's - go see it:ok:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/SXM-Twr.jpg
The warning signs are there for all to see....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/SXM-Sign.jpg
so if you go to Maho beach - you are warned:=
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/SXM-behindKLdep.jpg
Yes, that was 4 Bald Eagles winding up out of the frame.

[con-pilot]

Thank you very much GK430. It is nice to see others with the same aviation safety concerns as myself.:ok:

I am so glad you have provided proof of the late afternoon, evening formation arrivals I have observed after many hours of quality checking large quantities of beer. (Some folks have tried to tell me that it was the amount of beer that caused double vision, nonsense I have replied, there were never two oceans. Utter rubbish. :p )

[chevvron]

EGBP? You gotta be joking; that's FISOs; but I have done several PFA Rallys albeit not at EGBP. Con pilot has been known to visit my airport - hey Con pilot; why only beer; what's wrong with the local rum cocktails?
So that big radar is en-route and presumably just feeds to San Juan (Puerto Rico) rather than the local airport.

[GK430]

Chevvron, apologies, how could I forget where you are - all those posts from you and AM during a certain show and those lovely pics looking down from your vantage point.
I just remembered the company of your name which helps out when BAe146's and RJ's need to fly from EGBP - although you can't help but wonder if some will ever depart?
I really can't answer too much about ATC/Radar at TCNM, but on the busy days, they work their socks off. Typical and lovely U.S. style, if number one is a Cherokee and number two is a 74, that's the way it stays - no preferences!
All the 4 engined heavies have to backtrack from "C" - I think - "A" is too narrow and it's a fair way, so you see them holding when there is a rush of BN-2's etc on the app. Also, they are unable to vacate so from backtrack there is only one exit - back down the rwy.On one of the days, the only day with two 74 movements, the Corsair 744 held and finally was cleared to backtrack when the KL 744 established on the VOR/DME....it was never going to work and all at the Sunset were ooing and ahing when the KL went round from about 1D. You just had to feel for the KL who had probably been en route for 9 hrs.
If poss, could you PM me the e-mail of the Airfield Ops Manager at 'LF - I owe him a "thank you".
Con-pilot - just in case I have a shot of you over Maho, what's your tail number? I only have about two 900 pics over there, but you never know.
Might go again in March - anything to get out of this mild wet air, but i should go to Avalon. (But Melbourne in March.....possibly wet there too :ugh: )

[con-pilot]

Latest would be a Falcon 50EX N883RA, however, I am no longer flying for that company and am currently semi-retired. Before that it was a Falcon 900EX N883RA (Boss got poor and we had to downsize.) And of course the old Sabre 65 N883RA. I got tired of changing the registration on the aircraft all the time.

As you know around Christmas and New Years the airport is very, very busy. There are periods that they close down all non-airline arrivals. Very few corporate/private aircraft are allowed to remain overnight during the holiday season. I've had to hold for over an hour on a few occasions and had to divert to Antigua once to to get more fuel.

However, as far as I am concerned it is well worth all the problems once I am on the island. We use to stay about a week, sometimes longer, every trip. Luckily my wife was able to be on the aircraft with me on a lot of those trips.

Oh by the way, you can Google N883RA and there is picture of the Falcon 50 taken at Beijing China about a year and a half ago during a trip around the world that I made in that aircraft. Also the same picture is on that Airliner dot web site.

[GK430]

CP - Nice looking bird, but sorry, not in my collection.
Had a quick look but I have too many pics and filing is not by type....argh!
Only one I could find was this one
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/Falcon.jpg[/URL]
LRJ's seem to have the flattest trajectory
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/SXM-Lear.jpg[/URL]
Not a great pic of the DHC-6 - but I like it nonetheless
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/SXM-Wina.jpg[/URL]
Probably difficult to see where the F/O's looking at & doing - Large image is:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/SXM-Iceair.jpg[/URL]

[JackOffallTrades]

St Maarten. Isn't that the place where you can relax on the beach and moon the pilots on short finals?
The reason for the ASR was.......

[Akubra]

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e114/mikelogue/?action=view&current=KLM_747_SXM_261106.flv
Found this tonight but I'm unsure if its been posted before. It's a KLM aborted approach. Sure is a busy beach!

[con-pilot]

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e114/mikelogue/?action=view&current=KLM_747_SXM_261106.flv
Found this tonight but I'm unsure if its been posted before. It's a KLM aborted approach. Sure is a busy beach!

It may have been posted before, however, I have never seen that video. Yes, that would about right on the beach crowd during the peak tourist season. It is a bit unusual to have a 74 taking-off and another 74 on approach.

[GK430]

And in slow motion, it went like this....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/Liningup.jpg
And the KL 744 goes around
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/Goaround.jpg
a bit of a reaction and oooh's and aaaah's at the Sunset BB
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/bored.jpg
and a few minutes later after a viz circuit
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/thistime.jpg

[GK430]

BOAC - I am sat at the Sunset Beach Bar - Wi-Fi working, but it's a bit hit & miss so please merge with the main thread if you wish!
By the way, amazing who you meet down here - a recent Snowbird 1 on Friday and yesterday a Capt from a U.S. airline....their duty day is more than 8 hours so 4 tech crew for the return trip on a minibus:sad: Could they hack a round trip to LCA or a Friday night TFS!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/pprune-airfrance.jpg
Didn't realise you could bounce a 340:{
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/pprune-USAir.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/pprune.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/mu-2pprune.jpg
Not seen an MU-2 in ages
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/pprune-Seneca.jpg

Time for a Carib....or a heineken - busy Sunday and looking forward to the St. Barth's rollercoaster tomorrow:D

[RingwaySam]

Excellent shots :) Im off there on Friday onboard KLM and then a day-trip the SBH on the Monday. Weather looks good there at the moment, Friday is forecasting possible storms though! :=

Sam :ok:

[BOAC]

Some people have all the luck, GK!

[GK430]

Cheers BOAC - +31c nearly all day and 130/10 - very pleasant.
If i can get my hands on a plane at St. Barth's tomorrow...might even get TNCM in the logbook.
Ringway Sam - Been forecasting showers nearly everyday - only a light one this p.m late - it's few at about 3,000 or CAVOK nearly the whole time.
Brilliant ATCO's last two days - really busy and they handle App/Twr/Gnd incl delivery...Nuts!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/pprune-jetblast.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/pprune-Corsair.jpg
front r/h seat please:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/pprune-aircaraibes.jpg

[GK430]

Ringway Sam
Last two KLM flights op by MD-11. Hope you won't be disappointed!
Still sunny;)

[BOAC]

Spoilsport here!

While we have enjoyed the pictures on this thread (some of the non-aircraft ones I have 'removed' and use as desktop wallpaper:)) the thread is in danger of overload with images and should not be used to pass personal messages etc. Please use the PM system or email for those.

It should also be restricted to pictures of relevance and I have decided that cockpit pictures of steely-eyed/lantern-jawed aces creaming their pursuit-ship aound the islands are not relevant. Pictures of dusky-eyed beauties with significant terrain are reserved solely for moderator use.

I have therefore edited this post, and ask that posters exercise a little restraint while using up our expensive server space.

Be aware that future posts may well be edited and the thread even closed if we have enough 'coverage'.

As always, editorial/referee decisions rule and PPRune Pop and I will always be right!:ok:

[GK430]

Hi Spoilsport,
W'ere chilled on the beach, no worries:cool:
Just realised who this might have been last evening, nearly didn't bother with the camera but it was first Brit registered plane I have seen here in several visits
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/G-GALX.jpg
ModeratorsARE Always right!Right!

A little RED Hawk, but now.....
FYI It was a little red Gnat, but yer pushin' yer luck, me old:)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/Convair.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/pprune-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/pprune-shed.jpg

GK - this thread is in danger of being closed. Is that what you want? - 'Nuff said?

[chevvron]

Hmm that Falcon 900 looks familiar; now where have I seen it before? Oh god I just looked out the window!

[GK430]

Well we all know where it was last night then. Missed him getting his ATC clearance - did he arrive dct from TNCM?
Nobody noticed the sticker on the nose - we were all looking at the tail and thought maybe Glaxo had a new plane:confused:
Mind you, it was getting late after a few beers to stay cool:=

Seen a Challenger VP-BJA outside and below your perch? It departed to LEMD dct with a very anglicised voice!

[RingwaySam]

Nice shots GK, just got back yesterday - Departure out of SXM in the MD-11 was so impressive! :eek:

Here are a few shots, the Spirit I was on the Sonesta roof -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/RingwayRio/26MAY07_N526NK_A319_TNCM.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/RingwayRio/26MAY07_N14115_752_TNCM.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/RingwayRio/27MAY07_V2LGI_DH8_TNCM.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/RingwayRio/29MAY07_N625AA_752_TNCM.jpg

St. Barths -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/RingwayRio/28MAY07_VPAAS_ISL_TFFJ.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/RingwayRio/28MAY07_FOIJO_CAR_TFFJ_1.jpg

[BOAC]

I've been chatting with the 'venerable' PPRune Pop and we both agree this thread is becoming somewhat 'circular' in that we are getting pic after pic of another aircraft in the same position etc.

We are closing it for a while since we do not feel there is anything more to see there at the moment. If anyone has a real 'stunning' shot (NB of AN AIRCRAFT:)) feel free to PM us with a link and we'll decide whether it merits posting.

[TotalBeginner]

Is this real? (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1252724&size=L&width=1024&height=744&sok=&photo_nr=&prev_id=&next_id=)

[FlyerFoto]

Certainly is - just put SXM in the Airliners.net search and have a look at some of the other pics - a little lower than most, but there are some pretty scary ones on there!

[airside]

Hi all,
Here is a shot from the “Greek St. Maarten”…
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=705953
By the way, one question. How much runway is required (ASDA) for a full B737-700 route LGSK-EGCC with 38C?
Happy new year to all.
Elliott

[pipertommy]

Heres more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYiV9c2HQqw

[Phil Space]

Amazing photo or what?
From the UK Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=512111&in_page_id=1811 What is the "special licence" refered to?
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/planeDM0302_600x703.jpg
Clearing the vehicles below by the narrowest of margins, a plane swoops in to land at one of the world's most dramatic airstrips.


Although the clearance is supposed to be 20ft, the scooter riders and car driver take no chances and duck for their own safety.


Pilots need a special licence to land at the strip on the island of Saint-Barthélemy, or St Barts, in the French West Indies.

[SeldomFixit]

A special licence to use Photo Shop would be more appropriate :bored:

[CityofFlight]

I've vacationed there and it's amazing every time I see them come in.:eek:

[con-pilot]

A special licence to use Photo Shop would be more appropriate

Sorry, no Photo Shop involved here, I've been there.

(Came by boat, I ain't stupid.)

[xetroV]

No Photoshop, just an ordinary landing at St. Barthelemy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqOo0Qol89o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdp_dAGOF-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL_GAXDVyIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RREPUdo-ccg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXaoFERHyUU

They apparantly moved the road a bit, to provide a little more headroom (the above movies show both the old and new road). :}

[Dutch1911]

Been there, with my own boat. Dfinetly not a photoshop job.

[soggy_cabbage]

Sorry, no Photo Shop involved here, I've been there

I have absolutely nothing to do with aviation. I have seen aircraft flying over me and always wondered how heavier than air flight was possible.

I have seen a few motorbikes pass me by....

In my humble opinion the motorbike on the left of that picture has a flat tyre.


Not to mention "macho man" is hunched over while parked on the hard shoulder.

Now, I hope the aviation professionals can point out that the aircraft was not configured for landing. Granted the wheels were down but.....

[xetroV]

Now, I hope the aviation professionals can point out that the aircraft was not configured for landing.
It was. :cool: You did watch the YouTube movies (2 posts above yours) before replying, didn't you?

Same aircraft, same airfield, different day:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Caraibes/Cessna-208B-Grand/1003526/L/

[soggy_cabbage]

I watched all the youtube stuff before replying.

Did you notice the missing part of the motorbike?

Partof the picture was "messed" with. From that I dis-trust the rest of it.

:hmm:

[CityofFlight]

Soggy cabbage...you're incorrect. :=

People do stop on along the shoulder to watch aircraft come in. The approach is an everyday occurence, althought this guy was lower than most. Several roads from various sides of the island converge at the top of this small mountain, which just happens to be the point of approaching a/c before they have to do a quick descent onto the airstrip at the bottom. I've never seen an approach on the opposite end, so my guess is there's one way in and one way out.

[soggy_cabbage]

CityofFlight,

O.K. you guys. I believe it!

I just told it as I saw it!

This photoshop or not issue can often be solved by looking at OTHER things totally unrelated to the dramatic subject that is the focus.

Either the bike on the left is photoshopped in or it has a really bad front wheel.

[xetroV]

soggy_cabbage, you asked for an professional opinion and I gave you one. That airplane was properly configured for landing and that ground clearance was perhaps (hard to judge with a zoom lens) just a tiny bit low compared to most approaches over there. No Photoshop; the anomaly on the left side of the picture is probably just a case of bad cropping.

These are not Photoshopped either:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/WinAir/De-Havilland-Canada/1078333/L/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/WinAir/De-Havilland-Canada/1154022/L/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/De-Havilland-Canada/1053560/L/

[CityofFlight]

Soggy...look at the shadows. They correspond completely.

[soggy_cabbage]

All of a sudden you as a group trust the Daily Mail.

Well, as the image is not the raw image and it has been messed with by an Adobe application (read photoshop) we will never know, will we....

;)

[Photon85]

kind of puts short field landing into another perspective =D

[Brian Abraham]

Sorry. For me its got Photoshop written all over it, and watching the videos only reinforces that opinion. Perspective of the aircraft and its flight path relative to the car is a give away. And I'm familiar with the Caravan in a up close and personal kind of way. Sorry guys.

look at the shadows. They correspond completely

Don't know what shadows you're talking about.

[soggy_cabbage]

If we are going to start nit-picking then there are a couple of other points to notice. (well three!)

1, Macho Man in the foreground is not looking at the aircraft. If it was that close I sure as hell would be!

2, Motorbike Guy, the one on the left with half a front wheel missing is staring straight ahead and escaping at high speed with his foot on the ground. (um his foot is missing a few toes just like his front wheel is missing a chunk)

3, The shutter speed of the camera was so fast that all three vehicles on the ground had their wheels frozen in time as they sped at great speed away from disaster.

Meanwhile, the prop on the doomed aircraft was spinning so fast it was not even a blur.....

(O.K. there is a darker patch just over the left MLG wheel)

[Max Tow]

I'm with the sceptics. Shadows of vehicles seem to run from foreground back to horizon but v.v. on aircraft (see strut shadow on fuselage cargo pod)....

[stevef]

I've done the odd bit of PaintShop Pro image manipulation and what Soggy says is reasonable in my experience. Further to that, if you enlarge the picture and look at the trees between the right main-gear and cargo pod, there's evidence of clone brushing. The delineation of the mountains on the right isn't as sharp as elsewhere either.

[Bobbsy]

After reading this thread and looking at the various pictures and videos, I got curious, downloaded the photo, and had a really close look at it (ironically, in Photoshop). I have to agree with soggy_cabbage: there's very strong evidence that this particular picture has been, er, enhanced.

As mentioned, the left hand motorbike is missing half it's front wheel, part of the rider's foot...and, looked at critically, the line of the hedge (where it crosses the white building in the distance, is wrong.

Around the plane there are several areas where the blur/smudge tool has been used, usually a sign of covering up mismatched edges after some cut and paste: above the left main gear strut (which is also slightly darker than the surrounding area, on the fuselage just aft of the left wing and again on the fuselage near the right hand main gear strut.

Part of the rear view mirror on the foreground motorbike is missing, as is a bit of the rider's back just on his belt line.

I'd say that they've taken an already spectacular approach and moved things around/added foreground elements to make it even more outrageous.

Bobbsy

[Max Tow]

Bobbsy remarks:
"I'd say that they've taken an already spectacular approach and moved things around/added foreground elements to make it even more outrageous."

That might be a fair definition of how tabloid journalism works!

[Bobbsy]

Nah, Max Tow: tabloid journalism takes the totally mundane and tries to make a story out of it without any regard for reality!

Bobbsy

[Guptar]

Is there any special approval required for a private aircraft to be taken into St Barts.

High on my list of airports to do.

[JEM60]

Agree with most. This is definitely a fake in my opinion. I am not a photographer, but it somehow itjust doesn't look right. I have always believed the St Maarten pictures, simply because they LOOK natural, and, in fact I visited there in December, and can confirm that they are. This is NOT real.

[JEM60]

Also, a point that nobody else seems to have picked up is that the scooter in the foreground is obviously moving. The rider has his feet on the footrests, he is on a dirt come gravel piece of track, but WHERE IS THE DUST from the back wheel.!!!

[Photon85]

this isn't a valid point at all, if you actually look at the scooter in the foreground you would see that the bipod support thing is extended under the scooter

[cwatters]

I'd like to know how the plane can possibly miss the car? That's the give away for me.

[Jetscream 32]

Cant believe your all nit picking over a scanned image, its the same aircraft that does it almost everyday, if you moved the camera to where the left scooter is and took the same picture as it came over the car you would probably see the aircraft was 20+ft when it went over it - aircraft come over the bend of that road anywhere "from" very close to "going around" because they are too high.

Based on little or no wind the preference is always a 10 approach being as there is no go around option from 28, which in turn sometimes leads to a more demanding approach as the speed / TDP is critical, also depending on how many pax you have in the 208 depends on how high you can be over that road...

:ok:

[sanjosebaz]

No idea why they wanted to mess with Photoshop like this; especially as there are many spectacular photos of (genuine) approaches available, but it has most certainly been 'manipulated'.

For instance, aside from the missing portion of front wheel of the bike on the left, said bike is very obviously a cut/paste from elsewhere. Just look carefully at the trees/bushes all round it (especially just behind the rear tyre). Definitely a lift from another photo. In which case, how can we believe that the a/c is exactly in the position that it was photographed at?

In other words, since they chose to fake the bike, it is likely that most of the rest is also fake. Perhaps the guy (a journo?) posing on the foreground scooter is the only genuine element? :*

Yes it is a nit pick; but why did they not just take a genuine photo?

[GK430]

Guptar,

Yes, as far as I am aware, you may not land at St. Barth's without a check ride in the first instance. I will find you the link with the advice this evening.
I have flown into St. Barth's twice in the Air Caraibes Caravan 'JO and it is a terrific experience. You certainly respect the ability of the chaps in the l/h seat. The flight from Sint Maarten is relaxed - but from a mile out, the concentration grows....
I have a photo of a local plane spotter parked in a vehicle in that exact spot as the Daily Mail photo - thought the chap was a complete idiot.

There is a flying club on the island with C.172 and 182 and am trying to arrange a trip with them - just got to make an app to Rwy 10.

There is a Memorial located on the hill to the left of the approach - the reason I am sure is obvious.

There are windsocks left and right on either hill on the approach to Rwy 10 and they invariably blow in opposite directions.

[tonbo]

As a Photoshop professional (http://www.montrealfood.com/retouch/) I can guarantee that this is a complete phony. One doesn't even need to be a Photoshop professional to see that the complete setup is ridiculous: the plane's trajectory would send it careening into the ground long before the runway; the shadows of everyone except the plane are heavily angled towards the horizon; the reflections on the fuselage are completely different than reality . . . need I go on? It's a completely amateur job, not even worthy of discussion. Is it POSSIBLE that planes come in this low at this particular airport? Well, look at the photo at http://www.airliners.net/open.file/199562/M/ for proof that all things are possible (that photo is definitely not doctored).

But THIS particular photo has been amateurishly thrown together by a Photoshop wannabe.

[Xeque]

I pretty sure that somewhere I've seen a photo showing a DC3/Dakota at St Barts. It might have been on Airliners.NET. However, I don't think they used 10 but came in the other way over the water to 29.

[soggy_cabbage]

Lots of great photos out there!

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1053488&photo_nr=47&prev_id=1053560&next_id=1053485

Duck!!!!

(O.K. it isn't a duck it is a BN-2A Islander)

:)

[Pilot Pete]

Is it me, or in the first video does the pilot land short of the displaced threshold? Then in a further video there is no displaced threshold.....

Landing short of a displaced threshold in this kind of place would seem a little strange (although I can quite understand the urge!)

PP

[wingattack]

Morning all!

Have had a good look at this one and I agree that it has been 'doctored'.

Shouldn't there should be at least some shadow cast by the tail or right wing somewhere in the photo - possibly a shadow on the Mini?

The moped in the foreground is stationary - stand is down. (already mentioned). The moped on the left is pasted. Look at the white line on the road. The Mini is sationary at the side of the road in a lay-by.

Does any one know the diameter of the Cessna's main wheels? They appear to be the same as the Mini in the photo. This would give a clue as to whether the 'plane has yet to pass the car.

[jumpseater]

No Photoshop; the anomaly on the left side of the picture is probably just a case of bad cropping.

Bad cropping and as Soggy Cabbage points out, no prop blur, and stationary spokes. Anyone who thinks this photo is genuine is on mars. I take photos of motorsport and aircraft.
To stop a motorcycle's spokes you need a fast shutter speed, in this case 1/800th sec
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c270/2012images/_B6O8824.jpg

To blur an aircraft propellor, or wheel spokes for that matter, you need a slow shutter speed, here 1/90th sec. Note aircraft is landing, props have dissapeared, just like the example of the 'real' landing.:ugh:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c270/2012images/IMG_5635.jpg
Both taken in similar conditions, close ISO's. So you can't get one of each on the same photo. That photo is not real.

[SeldomFixit]

Thank you linesmen, thank you ballboys. Game, set & match to SF. :ouch:

[anotherthing]

No doubt it is a hairy approach, but that particular photograph looks very photoshopped!

As for macho guy not looking at the a/c as he ducks... maybe that can be explained because of the way his arms are positioned on the bike... it would take some effort to crane your neck round and up to look at the aircraft and is not wha would happen biometrically if you were to duck as a reflex.

The left of the photo is not a result of bad cropping - it screams of cut and paste or bad use of the 'dodge' tool or other such item.

The shadows do not tally on the aircraft compared to the ground vehicles.

Not only is the photo doctored, but it's been done by an amateur.... ties in with it being in the Daily Mail I suppose

[soggy_cabbage]

This is/was still a good thread though. Because of it I now know a little bit about a place I had never knew existed.

I can understand why it is a great place to go for a holiday, one sun is at 5 o'clock low when the other sun is at 10 o'clock high.

You get a nice even tan that way.......

:}

Seriously, threads like this one make me think and do research. I really feel I learned something today.

[sikeano]

Photo Shop Job Nah, Just compare the sizes, wing span to the car I would like to park my Mini under them wings one day woohoo

Back to my Sheep and Pint now :ok:

[PPRuNe Pop]

IF that approach was real the next touchdown would not be the runway but the car. No pilot worth his sort (OR his job) would make such an approach. And do you really think the authorities would allow cars to be uncontrolled on that road if that could happen?

If you look at all the vids you will clearly see that there is useful height as they cross the threshold. Very little power - just riding it down.

As for a 'special licence' I think they mean trainers made sure their pilots can operate safely in and out!!

FWIW - for me it is a fake.

[iwalkedaway]

I spend much of my professional life using Photoshop. I spend much of it working with the press. I've also got a shrewd idea of the relative wheel sizes used by Minis, motorcycles and the Caravan. The next frame should have captured impact betwixt Mini and aircraft.

The Daily Mail - that fearlessly crusading newspaper, famed for the exposure of fraud and fakery - owes an explanation (as does the photo agency, Rex??).

The public should be told.

[scooter boy]

Whether it's a fake or not it is a great pic and makes me want to go there myself to check it out.

Bet the guy in the mini wishes he'd put the roof up (or got a hard top!!!) :D

SB

[Brian Abraham]

Sent the "Mail" a comment telling them what a bollux the photo was. Surprise, surprise they saw fit not to post the comment. Says it all really.

[xdc9er]

I would venture to say the pic is real, have about 7 years exp flying in and out of that strip, some guys have hairier B*&%SS than others, this one was low with no margin for gusts or sudden deviation below the nominal approach.
Sure was fun tho, Take off's one direction only ,landings from both ends if the wind was ok.

X (edited for spelling, 2am departures are killing what little brain cells I have left!)

[Max Tow]

If you still don't believe this is a poorly doctored photo, just enlarge the shadow in front of the Mini and explain why the runway markings a mile away overlap the road!
I also queried the authenticity on the Mail's comment site and was also apparently censored. A small issue but a great reminder that for some of our journalist colleagues the truth seldom gets in the way of a good story!

[innuendo]

The front of the moped is edited. Download the image and blow it up. There is a line of contrast that extends straight down from the front wheel. It is a pretty low rez image but when blown up, the pixelization of the aircraft looks to be a lot less that some of the surrounding image, especially the fin and elevators.
I'm in the camp that feels it is a composite.

[GK430]

Guptar - Please note:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- By Private Aircraft -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


St Barts' airport has a completely renewed runway since October'04

See our airfield renewal page.




The landing runway is 2170 feet long, and the approach, from either direction, is often plagued by varying degrees of turbulence. As a result, the French aviation authorities require that a special permit be issued to any pilot who intends to land in St. Barts.

Those planning to land in St Barts will have to land in Grand Case, French St Martin, first, in order to get their qualification. St Barts Control tower (Telephone: 590 590 27 65 33 - Fax: 590 590 27 98 96 ) will tell you how to contact a French instructor for certification. It takes a couple of hours, and includes touch-and-go in both directions. Don't do it on a windy day with a hangover.

The landing fee varies from 8.5 Euros to 12.5 Euros, and parking fee is 5.5 Euros/ night.

There are no mechanic nor fuel on the field. Best nearby place for that is at Grand Case Airport in St. Martin. No fuel is available during their long lunch hour.

When you arrive or depart, you are required to deposit a General Declaration form with the immigration officer at the door and file a flight plan : call (+590) 590 27 65 33 or fax (+590) 590 27 98 96.

If you do not own your own airplane and want the feeling of arriving in a private aircraft, locally based charter flights are available.

[blue monday]

Have been in awe of this place for a long time and reading bits of this thread i have just got to got there sometime soon to sit at sunset bar with a beer and watch Planes, oh and breasts! too!!:E

[RingwaySam]

Not sure if this has been posted but heres a video of the KLM that touched down a tad early :\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAfQwDizpRo

Whoops :E

Have been in awe of this place for a long time and reading bits of this thread i have just got to got there sometime soon to sit at sunset bar with a beer and watch Planes, oh and breasts! too!!:E

The local drug dealer who sits around shouting "charrrrllliiiiieeee" all is abit of a character aswell (don't worry I didn't use/buy any)

[JEM60]

Was at the Sunset Beach Bar in December, what a great crazy place. HAVE to go again. All the pictures are real. One very important point that I have to make, is that topless women drink free at the Sunset Bar.!!!

[drichard]

I thought this was a bit hairy : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHmrcCfdZFM

I couldn't help but notice the shadow the aircraft casts as it's flying down the hill. Nice landing with X-wind.

[RingwaySam]

Was at the Sunset Beach Bar in December, what a great crazy place. HAVE to go again. All the pictures are real. One very important point that I have to make, is that topless women drink free at the Sunset Bar.!!!

:E Try St. Barths on the beach - They sit down eating there tea while topless. Good looking and young aswell! :ok: