Military Pilot English

[planeenglish]

Hello all, I am posting here for the first time to ask your opinions about a course of aviation English I am preparing. I have been hired to implement an aviation English program for new pilots (around 50 hour average on an SIAI-Marchetti SF-260). These officers in training (Sotto Tenente in Italian) are to be sent to Corpus Christi, TX after a three year academy training program in various parts of Italy.
In my process of material writing for these "pilotini" I have found out that they do not learn radiotelephony in English until much later in their program and so must keep to general aviation English.
My question for you is this: in your opinions what is important subject matter for an officer on base that is also a pilot? I must teach them aviation English for communications on the radio when standard phraseologies do not suffice but also simple things such as ordering food in a restaurant, sending a package, briefing and debriefing for a mission....
I have materials for both subjects but not enough time to cover both. I must take the best (meaning the most effective) of both programs and leave out the least important due time constraints.
Could you all tell me what you think is most important for these guys on the base and in the air?
I appreciate your help,
PE

[airborne_artist]

Por favor puedo comer dos cervezas. Mi amigo pagará ellas.

[Chesty Morgan]

Should go down well in the Scruffs Bar.

"Dico le screpolature. Che cosa le regole corrette per la bicicletta jousting?"

[planeenglish]

"Dico le screpolature. Che cosa le regole corrette per la bicicletta jousting?"

Di incollarsi alla bicicletta e vestiti di Kevlar. :}


PE

[Chesty Morgan]

PMs PE!:ok:

[planeenglish]

PMs PE!:ok:
Checked and responded to already. Thank you.

Thank you to all of those who have replied.

Best,
PE

[planeenglish]

Just to let you all know I am using all the advice you gave. Thanks so much for the help.

Mr. Chesty, they have been warned about speaking too fast. I have been doing speaking and listening exercises to learn the proper pace at which they should speak. They too, appreciate the help.

Best,
PE

[buoy15]

I think the 2 green book Comms Manuals - ACP's 139-40? ( help me Beags) cover what you need, but they are hard to find these days since they stopped Morse training.
They were, and probably still are, carried by Nimrod and swanning crews and contain all the Q and Z codes required for a brief conversation with your Op Auth
They are concise, brief and to the point!
However, if you are a fattish, medium metabolic rate Scottish pilot, who has had dinner 2 hours prior to a 3 hr SCT, and, at crew-in during his intercom check, says " Galley, Whas Ma Foud" the books may not be necessary.
Andy Mullen - where are you? - on landing, do you remember eating the GSU CFI's pie supper on the bus whilst he was compiling your report for the trip?
And do you remember phoning home from the "Scruffs Bar" to tell the wife you wanted another dinner as you had not eaten for 4 hours because you'd convinced her we don't have any rations on Nimrods?
Love B15

[SmilingKnifed]

He was last seen struggling to eat the food at his York House dining out night due to volume of lydnacaine that had been spread over all his cutlery and glasses.:}

[Flap62]

Given the background of the students, I would suggest that some sort of;

"for me the war is over" or "please recognise my white flag".

That should see them through most of their military career>

[bounce'em all]

First post ever for me...Plane english, your thread caught my attention: may I ask who contacted you to develop that aviation english course for italians?
Thanks


P.S.
I can't quite catch flap62's intentions in that bit...supposed to be a joke or what? ...sorrry, language barrier...:rolleyes:

[airborne_artist]

How do you say "My tank has only one forward gear, but six reverse gears" in Italian? :E

[nick0021]

i know how to say it in French !! :E

[roush]

This document has been mentioned before on this forum, however it might be just what you are looking for.

http://www.ejectorseats.co.uk/rafanasaurus.html

I'm sure you would be allowed to print this out to use as an aide memoir.

Hope this helps.

[bufe01]

Hi there,
I'm an Itaf pilot usaf trained and currently on exchange with RAF.
Best piece of advice I can give them, get an american girlfriend! Battle proven method, I'm dead serious!
By the way what's your back ground PE and or who do you work for?
Because if you are service you should have around plenty of service pilots that went through possibly the same training system, you'll find even more in the Italian forum.
If you work for a company, which I don't think, it's a shame whatever armed force is wasting money since you don't even know where to start not knowing those kids needs.
Most probably you are the good'ol pilot given the ****ty job absolutely not flying related.
Please tell me I'm wrong!
Sorry I'm just kidding today.
Seriously I would ask on the Italian forum; before I give you any suggestion are those ghuys taking any english class in the states before starting?
In my opinion there's no point teaching aviation english without a solid base, aviation english is relatively easy because you'll learn to be familiar with the technical words, which after some time are always the same, in reasonable time. How I did it? reading aviation fiction novel!
It's when they talk cricket i'm lost!
Cheers
Bufe

[bufe01]

Given the background of the students, I would suggest that some sort of;
"for me the war is over" or "please recognise my white flag".
That should see them through most of their military career>

I initially missed your reply.
What do you exactly mean flap62?
There's plenty of brilliant examples of brit humour, I just can't get yours!
Maybe I'm a bit blonde today!....or it's just me being Italian.
Help me on this, "please recognise my white flag".

[SASless]

bufe01,

I wholeheartedly agree. I learned more Italian in a few weeks than I had in many months while living in Italy. My sweetie gave me a vocabulary list in the morning and no lunch until the test was done successfully. A second list was then handed over for the test before dinner and no dinner if failed. A third list followed dinner and the incentive for success on that one was well worth the extra study required. One found it very easy to bone up for the final daily exam.;)

[planeenglish]

Dear bounce'em all and bufe01,
I am an aviation English teacher. I was contacted by this branch of the military in Italy for my experience as an aviation English teacher. I have been teaching English as a foreign language for 15 years and specialized in Aviation English for civil pilots (A and H), mechanics, engineers and cabin attendants. I have been asked to develop material for security agents for the local handling agent here and now have been called upon by the military. I have developed a course that is teaching pilots the language necessary to cope with everyday life on an air force base according to the chief of languages for the Department of Defense in the USA. I am teaching them aspects of language they could never find in a general English classroom.
My original questions were as follows:
My question for you is this: in your opinions what is important subject matter for an officer on base that is also a pilot? I must teach them aviation English for communications on the radio when standard phraseologies do not suffice but also simple things such as ordering food in a restaurant, sending a package, briefing and debriefing for a mission....
I have materials for both subjects but not enough time to cover both. I must take the best (meaning the most effective) of both programs and leave out the least important due time constraints.
I have too much material. I needed to know what was important to put into a 70-hour course to make it as effective as possible. I have to decide if describing debris on a runway is more important than being able to order food in a restaurant. (Both of these tasks, BTW, are required by officers on their Oral Proficiency Interview which they must prove proficiency on before being accepted to the program.) I asked a question to understand the importance of the particular material I have been writing over the last 5 years. I was sure that through all of you here I could have had some very good advice. I have gotten great ideas from people who have written me privately. I have since taught my "pilotini" using this advice and my pilots are dead tired from 48 hours (in 7 days) of intensive study but who are happy to be in class due I have kept them interested the whole time by not teaching Shakespeare.
Today was their first real progress assessment and found an improvement in each one's proficiency. They were taught about all areas of aviation and aeronautics that they didn't know before and learned it in English. They have had the opportunity of having an experienced fighter pilot in the room to ask whatever questions they wanted. They learned English by studying a film of Bob Hoover's spectacular stopped-engine aerobatics. Wednesday they will construct and airfoil and show me Bernoulli's law in action and describe aerodynamics.
They learn English by having to build paper airplanes. One stands in the back of the classroom and must tell another student (with his back facing the speaker) how to fold the paper airplane. The twist is someone else has built the airplane. Think about the language difficulties there! Dismantle the construction and figure out how to relay the instructions. Using the imperative form, passive forms and modal verbs. This is how to describe a process. This is important. They were taught the English language today of how a jet engine works. I had them do the free on-line courses from AOPA.com and they learned English and safety.
Aviation English is not just technical vocabulary. It is a task related specific language. Initiating a call, asking for clarification, using the imperative and passive forms of structures,linking sentences and these are just a few of its intricacies.
My questions to all of you were simply to help me refine my material into a two-week intensive course. I appreciate the helpful support you all have given me and your willingness to have done so.
And to who said to get the English speaking girlfriend: I will pass on the info but to tell you the truth they have already thought of this!
Thanks again and best to all,
PE

[bufe01]

Hi there,
I understand they have to pass an interview in order to start their training, that would be a starting point.
As far as I know you have to pass a multiplechoice test which is not difficult at all, this was the DOD requirement at my time and for a couple of recent ITAF training programme hold in the US I've been involved with.
That was very basic grammar but really depends on the interview test itself,
you know better than me that knowing a word doesn't mean you are able to put it in a phrase and viceversa.
If they have a decent grammar base you could approach technical language as an excuse to work on their speaking capability which is what they really need.
If they are consceiuous officers wanting to be pilots, which I think they should be, I'm sure they are doing their own reading.
In many years I've personally heard of just one case of failure due to poor language skills in upt, enjpt, supt (the guy didn't even start!).
One good piece of advice though, english could be used to threaten you because it will never be your language.
I remember beeing put under a special monitoring status due to english after I had completed all my T37 solos because i answered working a call at the bottom of the loop rather than during.
Good luck

[bounce'em all]

PE,
no advice from me to you: your classes sound like a heck of a lot more organized than most formal training classes I've been through...
the one needing serious advice would be the Italian Air Force or, better yet, the IT government itself, still not requiring English as a second official language for such recruiting purposes.:ugh:
One question though, if I may: are you already involved with a language school within the ItAF ? or were you just approached as an outside source? Obviously, I will understand your reluctancy to answer if you'll judge my question as excessively nosy.:O
Just trying to find out if we've met already.
Thanks.

P.S.FLAPS62 still missing..?

[planeenglish]

Thanks again, all of you,
I appreciate the responses. Today went well. I have dug broken parts out of the local training airport's trash bin :yuk: and took my findings with me to class (bits of brakes, a pedal with wires coming out of it, an odd piece of something metal that had five different colored wires coming out of it-looks a bit like my hair in the morning :eek: )and a couple of other foreign and unknown articles). One student on the phone (in separate rooms-this to simulate the radio, non face to face situation) had to describe the pieces as though they were FOD. It went well. We studied physical characteristics like shapes, colors, surfaces (rough, greasy, matt, as well as; corrosive, inert and hollow. This followed by materials and substances.) before they had to do the exercise. The target language was formulating question forms asking for a description and actually describing something to someone who couldn't see the object. Happily, both groups were successful.
Then on to making complaints in a shop (non-aviation English subject) and later a discussion of how to "complain" on the radio. Intonation here is the key, always polite, but firm!
We also studied word order, check valve versus valve check; air bleed and bleed air.
I have still not been able to explain feathering the propeller properly, anyone care to help me here?Tomorrow; build an airfoil just by voice instructions (this is difficult because I also have the speaker on the opposite side of the room while the sound system is playing live radio traffic from various airports :E ). The theory is that in the cockpit the radio is almost always on and a pilot's attention must be on many things, multi-task.
Then lastly for tomorrow, build a balsam wood glider by listening to another students instruction. Let's see how it goes....
Best,
PE

[bounce'em all]

PE,
feathering props would be " mettere le eliche in bandiera" (plural).
:ok:

[planeenglish]

Thanks. Can you explain the actual function, purpose?

PE

[bounce'em all]

the kids will know: they've heard it a billion times in the AF Academy.

[planeenglish]

they're not AF

[bounce'em all]

I thought you were just looking for the translation..
Feathering props means to decrease the pitch of the prop blades (angle by which they hit the airstream flow) to the minimum so they offer minimum drag to forward motion. In case your engine fails and cannot be restarted, you'd want that drag lowered to the minimum.
That's it in a nutshell.

[planeenglish]

Thanks. Someone told me you have to pull a lever out and keep it in a certain position. Is this true?

PE

[bounce'em all]

I see. NAVY then ?

[planeenglish]

No.





PE

[bounce'em all]

Careful there...not the throttle lever/handle, the prop lever! Basically, to feather you pull it all the way back.

[movadinkampa747]

Wouldnt it be easier if you both went to MSN Messenger to chat?

[bounce'em all]

and leave it there. Unless or untill successful restart takes place.
Again, just out of sheer curiosity, would you mind disclosing the nature of your students ?

[planeenglish]

Thanks for the info. I don't think this is messenger chat, no.

For the personal questions I sent you a private message earlier.

Thanks a bunch,

PE

[bounce'em all]

that's a great piece of advice 747, weren't you facing a total computer illiterate here. Hope this is not bothering anyone...

[bounce'em all]

thanks PE.

[bufe01]

PE,
no advice from me to you: your classes sound like a heck of a lot more organized than most formal training classes I've been through...
the one needing serious advice would be the Italian Air Force or, better yet, the IT government itself, still not requiring English as a second official language for such recruiting purposes.:ugh:
One question though, if I may: are you already involved with a language school within the ItAF ? or were you just approached as an outside source? Obviously, I will understand your reluctancy to answer if you'll judge my question as excessively nosy.:O
Just trying to find out if we've met already.
Thanks.

P.S.FLAPS62 still missing..?

I must admit, and was out of the system 10 years ago and things have probably changed for better, our english teaching may not be the best.
Nonetheless all the pilots and nav arrived in my squadron since 1994 always had more than a working knowledge, most of them have been us or canada trained. All the pilots that came through the italian flight training system were sent to language school an to the uk later on for school and family staying.
I guess i'm the living proof beeing on exchange withj raf and my english beeing average.
So what you said is not really correct, which is my english understatement exercise of the day really meaning "It's incorrect"!
We must have pissed off a bunch of people winning the world cup!
Cheers

P.S.
At a csar lesson some raf regiment guy who didn't notice me said that the worst nightmare would be eject and beeing rescued by italians having to go all the csar chit chat.
I told him the real nightmare would me for me, and my english is decent enough to be here, the real nightmare would be beeing shot down and beeing picked up by someone from Liverpool or Newcastle!

[planeenglish]

Well we did it. We finished our two-week intensive session. They did wonderfully. I appreciate the help you all gave.

They were very enthusiastic and motivated. We focused on specific target language and feel they got it down very well. They were pretty beat at the end of the 13 days poor guys.

I don't know if they are on this forum. I asked them to sign up but am not sure if they did. I showed them the responses on this thread more than once.

Bounce'em all, I turned your response regarding feathering the props into a lesson. We broke down the langugae and worked on pronunciation and stress patterns with consonant/vowel sequences. They were very appreciative, as I am.

They gave me a book from the academy, a "yearbook" of sorts and signed it for me.

Take care and keep cool,

PE

[el @]

Por favor puedo comer dos cervezas. Mi amigo pagará ellas.
Hi airborn_artist, listen to me here for a moment buddy.
Get a map, locate Spain. It's just on the left side of France, yes on the other side of the sea. Spain is where many British people like goes on vacations, they do bullfights, are you with me?

Well, they do speak 'Spanish' there. Sometime, (it doesn't matter if you won't remember that in the future), 'Spanish' is also called 'Castellano'. This word, think like a 'castle', is used to refer to the spanish language that is spoken in central and south-america, except Brazil. That would be everything south of what you probably call america.

Now, I hope you're still with me. Locate Italy on the map, it's on the opposite side, right and below France. I'm sure you know where France is. Now, they speak Italian there. It's easier to rememeber than the weird Spanish situation because Italian is officialy spoken in Italy only.

Now for the surprise point, Spanish and Italian are two different languages, albeit similar. What you uttered above is almost Spanish, but you do not 'comer' cerveza, being beer a liquid, you 'tomar' or 'beber'. These two words are synonimous.

I hope these two bits of language trivia can be helpful to your future attempts to be funny or get drunk in a foreign situation.

[movadinkampa747]

Por favor puedo comer dos cervezas. Mi amigo pagará ellas.

Please I can eat two beers. My friend will pay they. ?????????:confused:

[planeenglish]

Perhaps it was a reference to the type of Spanish spoken in Northern Mexico and Cuba seeing that the guys are going to Florida and Texas...:E

[el @]

Given the background of the students, I would suggest that some sort of;
"for me the war is over" or "please recognise my white flag".
That should see them through most of their military career>

Ahhh, another pearl of Britain's finest humor.
If I was someone with the head stuffed of military BS like you, I would remind you the full details of when and why the Italians should and did surrended. And when the British should have, but did not, and left thousands on the field. But, I won't do that.
Will just remind you, when in the future you can shut up, do us a favor and do it.

Bravo instead to bufe01 and bounce for helping our valiant PE in preparing the 'pilotini' to the language side of their profession. The only problem that I foresee is that they dosn't speak anything like English in Texas expecially, but with time and patience, if I did it, they can as well.

[planeenglish]

The only problem that I foresee is that they dosn't speak anything like English in Texas expecially, but with time and patience, if I did it, they can as well.
I can vouch for this. I was born and raised in Dallas. Sadly, it is true what you say. :(
I did spend some time having my "pilotini" listen to Texan ATC. I am working on getting some live traffic from the AFB to help them prepare. I also taught them American English from the DoD's American Language Course books.
Thanks for your help as well.:ok:
PE

[el @]

PE, you are too right for your job. One last last ideao if you like, introduce the sideslip (scivolata d'ala) term and stimulate a discussion about pro vs. con of this tecnique in crosswind landings. Lot of gesturing and hot debate is guaranteed!

[bounce'em all]

good pair of straight-setting tips, el @! I'm sure our friends won't need any of them anyway, being so fluent in foreign languages and always ready for a good joke on latin colleagues...always nice to hear in our job, right?

PE, el @'s remark is entirely correct, you are one resourceful language teacher. Lived not far from Dallas for 4 years. Me and my wife loved it, even though I hated speeding tickets and connected procedures..
Glad to know my two pennies' worth led to something productive. Always available, as long as I can give you a decent answer.
Hope I didn't implicate any "inappropriate" comments on PM. Let me know.