Victor Accidents Ground and Flying [Archive]

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Tanker512

15th Jul 2006, 21:05

Looking for serious details of accidents to any Handley Page Victor both on the ground and flying. Authenticated FACTS not Fiction. Required as soon as possible and at you convience please

Many Thanks

jabberwok

15th Jul 2006, 22:47

How about please then?

mikebennett

15th Jul 2006, 23:27

Hope this will help a little
19th July 1960
RAF
Victor B1A
XH617
57 Sqn
3 miles south east of Diss, Norfolk
Flt. Lt. J. Mudford (Captain) ejected
Martin-Baker
23rd March 1962
RAF
Victor B2
XL159
A&AEE
Stubton Notts
ALL THREE OTHER CREW SURVIVED
Mr. P. Murphy ejected
Flt. Lt. J. W. Waterton ejected
Martin-Baker
2nd October 1962
RAF
Victor B1
XA934
232 OCU
3 miles south west of RAF Gaydon
Flt. Lt. B. C. Gwinnell (co-pilot) ejected
Martin-Baker
20th March 1963
RAF
Victor B2
XM714
100 Sqn
3.5 miles east-north-east of RAF Wittering
Flt. Lt. B. J. Jackson (co-pilot) ejected
Martin-Baker
24th March 1975
RAF
Victor K1A
XH618
57 Sqn
Simulated refueling Buccaneer hit XH618's tailplane - off Sunderland
Flt. Lt. Keith L. Handscomb ejected
Martin-Baker
its from my website at
http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/Victor.htm
Not a massive lot of info but maybe others can add to the ejection lists
Try to get hold of
LOST TO SERVICE by Colin Cummings isbn0-9526619-0-X it gives a lot more detail of each accident
Regards
Mike Bennett
Project Get Out and Walk
www.ejection-history.org.uk

Dan Winterland

16th Jul 2006, 01:44

WB771. Prototype crashed at Cranfield 14/7/53 during low level position error runs. Tail broke off.

XA919: Development aircraft. Damaged in flying accident, landed but written off. Subsequently used for a fatigue monitoring rig.

XA929: Crashed on take off at Akrotiri, 16/6/62.

XA934: Engine failure, 2/10/62

XH613: 4 engine flameout on approach to Cottesmore 18/7/60.

XH617: Alternator drive shaft failure caused loss of aircraft over Norfolk 19/7/60

XH618: Tanker, collided with Buccaneer over North Sea 24/3/75.

XH646: Collided with a canberra over Norfolk 19/8/68.

XH668: B2 prototype lost over Irish Sea after pitot probe detached and leading edge slats auto deployed. This was the main reason the LE devices were fixed in the Mk2.

XL159: Stable stall, crashed near Newark after stable stall 23/3/62.

XL191: Stalled on approach at Hamilton, Obtario 19/6/86.

XL230: Lost control after touch and go at Wyton 10/5/73

XL232: Turbie disc failure leading to uncontrolled fire on take off roll, Marham, 15/10/82.

XL513: Take off abort, Marham 28/9/76.

XM714: Stalled after take off from Wittering 20/3/63.

XM716: Crashed near Wyton 29/6/66.

All info from Andrew Brooke's excellent book 'Handley Page Victor' ISBN 0-7110-1803-0

ZH875

16th Jul 2006, 11:34

XL232 also had the HDU governer overspeed and disintegrate problem on Ascension during the Falklands war. The rear fuselage was perforated over a large proportion, and there was a hole in the rear bomb bay tank the size of a 10p coin. Aircraft landed trailing the hose as it could not be wound in or jetisoned.

Took a while to BDR for it to fly back to England, only to be destroyed at the end of Marhams runway.

Mr_Grubby

16th Jul 2006, 12:53

Tanker 512

I was a witness to the crash of XA929 at Akrotiri 16/6/62 standing only 300 yards away from it.

Why do you want this info ?

I may be able to help with this crash.

Clint.

mikebennett

16th Jul 2006, 13:49

Hope this is not too much to put on forum.
Raw data staright from reference books and converetd to useable text.
I also appreciate that crews of V-Bombers may not be to willing to discuss such accidents due to the decisions that had to be made about egress with only the pilot and co-pilot having ejection seats.

31 DECEMBER 1953
VICTOR 1(P)
WB771

Sqn Ldr H.G.Hazelden DFC (Graduate No.l Course; (Chief Test
Pilot) Handley Page, Radlett. Sapphire engine development,
systems test. High frequency vibration from the engines, now
operating at their 8,3001b thrust ratings, caused the starboard inner
flap to detach unknown to the crew. The aircraft completed an
undemanded roll to port when the flaps were lowered during the
landing approach. Flaps deselected and a flapless recovery
successfully made. (ref 75). Nil casualties. Cat 3.

14 JULY 1954
VICTOR B.1(P)
WB771
Sqn Ldr RN.Ecclestone DFC AFC (Graduate No.8 Course; Test
Pilot), Mr E.N.K.Bennett (Flight Test Observer), Mr B.Heithersay
(Flight Test Observer) and Mr A.B.Cook (Flight Test Observer),

Handley Page, Radlett. Position error calibration flight involving level runs at 100ft over Cranfield airfield at increasing speeds. After numerous runs over the airfield, induced tail flutter caused cracking of the bolt holes in the fin. These allowed the three bolts securing the tailplane to loosen and shear in quick succession, the complete tailplane and elevators broke away from the aircraft. The remainder of the aircraft dived into the ground at full power, striking exactly at the intersection of the two Cranfield runways. (refs 6, 14, 20, 62, 74, 75, 93 & 207). 4 killed. Cat 5.

19 JUNE 1957
VICTOR B.1
XA919
Flt Lt G.H.Moreau (Graduate No.l3 Course) and Flt Lt VMcNabney GM, `B' Sqn, A&AEE. Due to a technical defect the aircraft landed at Wittering with the starboard wheel brakes locked on. The front four tyres of the bogie were torn away, the rear four tyres burst and the wheels were damaged. Debris from the tyres damaged the starboard flaps, severed the electrical earth point in the undercarriage bay and pierced the fuselage and the bomb bay. The aircraft was recovered successfully to Boscombe Down with numerous electrical faults. Modifications subsequently introduced. (refs 62 & 180). Nil casualties. Cat 4.

20 AUGUST 1959
VICTOR B.2 (P)
XH668
Sqn Ldr R.J.Morgan (Graduate No. 16 Course) and Sqn Ldr G.B.Stockman (Graduate No. 15 Course), `B' Sqn, A&AEE. Trials flight high speed manoeuvrability. A fatigue fracture induced the loss of the starboard wingtip pitot head tube, which led to a low speed input to the auto Mach trim actuator and the stall detector thus lowering the elevators and extending the leading edge flaps. The aircraft progressed into a high speed dive from 54,OOOft. Partial structural failure preceded impact with the sea at Mach 0.855, off St Brides Bay, Wales. Unsuccessful ejection by the captain just prior to impact. The analysis of the accident was only achieved after a 14¬month sea search, which ended on 19 November 1960, during which time 46 ships were involved, 11,069 deep sea trawls were made and 592,610 pieces of wreckage recovered, amounting to 70 per cent of the aircraft. (refs 2, 16, 17, 28, 33 & 207). 5 missing, presumed killed (crew plus Flt Lt L.N.Williams, Flt Lt R.J.Hannaford and Mr R.Williams (Handley Page)). Cat 5.

2 MARCH 1961
VICTOR B.1
XA917
Mr W.R.Burton (1st pilot), Mr H Rayner (2nd pilot), Mr D John
(Navigator), Mr A.J.Vincent (AEO), and Mr D Cook (Observer,
RAE Farnborough), Handley Page, Radlett. X band radar trials.
The aircraft landed in the undershoot and damaged the nose¬
wheels, the aircraft then ran on to the runway and proceeded more
or less normally until the brake parachute was streamed. With a
strong crosswind, and without nose wheel steering, the aircraft ran
off the side of the runway onto grass where the nose dug in and the
undercarriage collapsed causing extensive damage to the fuselage.
(refs 1 & 207). Nil casualties. Cat 5.

5 DECEMBER 1960
VICTOR B.2
XH673
MC .1.W.Allan 1 (Test Pilot), Sqn Ldr R.L.Bates, Mr R.A.Funnell, Mr
J.P.Quinn and Mr J.Rudeforth, Handley Page, Radlett. High weight
functional tests. Hydraulic failure. The aircraft landed wheels up, tail
first, at Waddington, on foam. (refs 2, & 93). Nil casualties. Cat 4.

23 MARCH 1962
VICTOR B.2
XL159
Mr P.Murphy (Test Pilot, Handley Page Aircraft), Flt Lt J Waterton (Graduate No. 19 Course), Mr M.P.Evans (Navigator) and Mr P Elwood (Flight Test Observer, Handley Page). `B' Sqn, A&AEE, flown from Radlett. Flight trial into the low speed handling characteristics with recently fitted production fixed droop leading edges that replaced the conventional nose flaps. During an approach to the stall at 16,OOOft in the landing configuration the aircraft was mishandled and entered a stable stall followed by a flat spin from which the crew were unable to recover, the aircraft sinking at a rate of about 6,OOOft/min. Both pilots ejected safely, the co pilot at 1,OOOft and the captain at 400¬500ft. One rear crew (Mr J.Tank AEO) abandoned the aircraft successfully, the other two rear crew remained with the aircraft. The aircraft, descending almost vertically, crashed onto a farmhouse at Stubton (Lincolnshire), near Newark on Trent, killing two residents and injuring two more (Mr and Mrs D.Burtt). (refs 2, 20, 28, 77 & 207). Pilots injured. 2 crew killed (Evans and Ellwood). 2 non occupant civilians killed (Mrs A.Gibson and Miss C.P.Gibson). Cat 5.

17 AUGUST 1962
VICTOR B.2
XL161
Mr J.Baker and Mr Longhurst (Flight Test Observer), Avro. Blue
Steel carriage and release testing trials by No.4 JSTU, Woomera,
Australia. At 47,OOOft in the climb to 50,OOOft, a leak in the
second pilot's pitot static system caused the auto Mach trimmer to
run fully out and apply a rearward force to the control column and
the second pilot's Mach meter to read Mach 1.03 (above the
permissible limit). The first pilot's Mach meter correctly
indicated Mach 0.76. Thinking that he had excessive speed, the
first pilot reacted to the second pilot's instrument by throttling
back and extending the air brakes thus reducing speed. The
aircraft stalled and pitched up, the pilot lost control and the
aircraft spun. Recovery was not achieved until the landing brake
parachute was streamed and used as an anti spin device. A return
to level flight was accomplished at 17,OOOft. (refs 1 & 207). Nil
casualties. Cat 3.

Victor XA929 16 Jun 62
Victor XA934 02 Oct 62
Victor XH613 14 Jun 62
Victor XH617 19 Jul 60
Victor XH618 24 Mar 75
Victor XH646 19 Aug 68
Victor XH668 20 Aug 59
Victor XH671 15 Mar 93
Victor XL159 23 Mar 62
Victor XL191 19 Jun 86
Victor XL230 10 May 73
Victor XL232 15 Oct 82
Victor XL513 28 Sep 76
Victor XM714 20 Mar 63
Victor XM716 29 Jun 66

14 Jul 54
WB771
Victor Prototype H Page
Cranfield airfield, Bedfordshire
4

The aircraft broke up whilst making calibration runs over the airfield. The cause of the loss was failure of the tailplane. 'Taffy' Ecclestone was a graduate of the Empire Test Pilots' School No 8 Course in 1949 and had recently joined Handley Page. He accepted the task to fly the Victor on this sortie so that the senior test pilot; Squadron Leader Hedley George Hazelden DFC & Bar, could carry out a rescheduled demonstration of another aircraft to a foreign sales delegation. Ecclestone had been awarded the Distnguished Flying Cross following a tour with 218 Sqn. Ian Bennett had been one of the two man crew (the other was Squadron Leader Hazelden) who made the first flight in a Victor on 24 December 1952.

Squadron Leader Ronald Vivian Ecclestone DFC Handley Page Test Pilot Captain Mr Ian K BENNETT Handley Page Flight Test Observer Mr B HEITHERSAY Handley Page Flight Test Observer Mr A B COOK Handley Page Flight Test Observer

20 Aug 59
XH668
Victor B2
A&AEE
off Milford Haven
5

The aircraft was on a test flight when it lost the starboard pressure head. This gave incorrect airspeed readings and the aircraft was then allowed to dive and became out of control before breaking up. A massive search was conducted to recover the wreckage of this aircraft from the sea and to identify the cause of the loss.

Squadron Leader Raymond James MORGAN 34 Pilot Captain
Squadron Leader George Breakspear STOCKMAN 29 Co Pilot

Flight Lieutenant Lewis Nicholas WILLIAMS Navigator
Flight Lieutenant Ronald John HANNAFORD Air Electronics Officer
Mr Robert H WILLIAMS Handley Page Flight Test Observer

19 Jul 60
XH617
Victor KlA
57 Sqn
3 Miles South East of Diss Norfolk
3

Abandoned on fire after alternator drive failed and penetrated fuel tank. The Captain, Flight Lieutenant J Mudford and the Air Electronics Operator, Flying Officer G C Stewart, survived the accident

Flying Officer Michael John WILKES Co Pilot
Flight Lieutenant John Bernard Paul WILDING Navigator (Radar)
Flight Lieutenant Rodney Syd BRISTOW Navigator (Plotter)

23 Mar 62
XL159 Victor B2
A&AEE
Stubton Notts
2

Stalled and dived into house killing 2 on ground

Mr M EVANS 25 Navigator Handley Page Flight Test Crew
Mr P ELWOOD 26 Flight Test Observer Handley Page Flight Test Crew
Mr P Murphy (Captain), Mr J Tank and Flight Lieutenant J Waterton all survived the accident)

14 Jun 62
XH613 Victor
KlA
15 Sqn
5 miles North East of RAF Cottesmore
0

Whilst approaching RAF Cottesmore at the end of the sortie, all four engines ran down because the electrical connectors became disconnected on the throttle box. The aircraft was being flown by the squadron commander; Wg Cdr Matthews with Flying Officer Lowther as his co pilot. On the order to abandon the aircraft, it is believed that the rear crew left the aircraft in less than half a minute and,

although one man left the rubber of his flying boots along the fuselage, the entire crew survived. It was particularly tragic, therefore, that a few days later another Victor from the Cottesmore sister squadron should crash with the loss of all on board. (Crew: Captain Wg Cdr J G Matthews, Co Pilot Fg Off W B Lowther, Navigator Plotter Flt Lt G B Spencer, Navigator Radar Flt Lt B H Stubbs, Air Electronics Operator Flt Lt E W Anstead). In June 1983, the author joined Bill Lowther for a drink to celebrate his second 21st birthday!

16 Jun 62
XA929
Victor B1
10 Sqn
RAF Akrotiri Cyprus
6

Incorrect flap reading led to wrong selection on take off. By the time the pilot had realised the possible T reason for the aircraft not becoming airborne it was too late to avoid the crash. The co pilot ejected T shortly before the crash but his ejection was outside the design limits of the seat and he did not survive.

Flight Lieutenant George Alfred GOATHAM 27 Pilot Captain
Flight Lieutenant David Cairns BROWN 28
Flight Lieutenant John GRAY 36
Flying Officer Anthony William MITCHELL 21 Co Pilot
Flying Officer Albert Peter PACE 24
Master Technician Donald Arthur SMITH 40 Crew Chief

02 Oct 62
XA934
Victor B1
2320CU
3m South west RAF Gaydon
3

Engine failed on take off and the aircraft was abandoned after two others failed
Flight Lieutenant Noel Edward COOKE 39 Pilot Captain
Pilot Officer John Anthony COTTRIDGE
Flying Officer Douglas Frank HAYNES
(the co pilot; Flight Lieutenant E B C Gwinnel, a former Canberra pilot with 45 Squadron was saved)

20 Mar 63
XM714
Victor B2
100 Sqn
3 1 / 2 M East north east RAF Wittering
5

The aircraft, with a crew of five and a Bomber Command 'umpire' took off in the early evening to fly a bomber night exercise. The weather was good and the aircraft had only recently been delivered new from the factory. After a normal take off and after passing 800 feet, the co pilot noticed the No 2 engine fire warning light illuminated. He told the captain that No 1 engine was on fire but the captain

contradicted him with the correct engine details and instructed the co pilot to tell Air Traffic Control and then told the rear crew members to check their parachutes. The co pilot noticed that the undercarriage warning flag, which is activated if speed drops below 160 knots and the undercarriage has not been lowered, was flashing and he warned the captain to watch his speed. The captain replied that he was climbing for height and despite the severe juddering believed that the aircraft had sufficient speed because, it is thought, he believed he was at 100 knots higher speed than was the case. At around 5000 feet the aircraft flicked over to port and fell away partly inverted. The captain ordered the crew to abandon the aircraft and the rear crew members were unable to do so because of the increasing 'G' forces as the aircraft spun down. The co pilot ejected and was unharmed. It seems the only possible explanation for an experienced captain losing control in this way was for him to have assumed he had the right speed and that the juddering was not a stall but structural failure caused by the engine fire.

Flight Lieutenant Alexander Douglas GALBRAITH 29 Pilot
Flight Lieutenant Edward Joseph VERNON 32 Navigator Radar
Flight Lieutenant James CHURCHILL 31 Navigator Plotter
Flying Officer Terence Ian SANDFORD 23 Air Electronics Officer
Master Navigator Albert STRINGER 39 (Exercise Umpire, on loan from 139 Squadron)
(co pilot Flight Lieutenant B J Jackson escaped)

29 Jun 66
XM716
Victor SR2
543 Sqn
Near Warboys Airfield
4

Broke up in high speed low level turn. The aircraft, the first SR2 to enter service with the squadron, was being demonstrated to the Press. The evidence suggests that it was overstressed in the turn and broke up over the old airfield at Warboys.

Squadron Leader John Anthony HOLLAND Captain
Flying Officer Harry WALSH Co Pilot
Flight Lieutenant Royston Arthur NORMAN Navigator
Flight Lieutenant Kenneth SMITH Air Electronics Officer

19 Aug 68
XH646
Victor
K1 A
214 Sqn
Kelling Heath Norfolk
4

Whilst flying in extremely poor weather conditions which rendered the radar cover inadequate, the Victor was in collision with a Canberra. The crews of both aircraft were killed. Squadron Leader Doyle had assumed his responsibilities as a flight commander on 214 Squadron on the morning of his death.

Squadron Leader Michael Thomas DOYLE Navigator
Flight Lieutenant William Anthony GALLIENE Captain
Flight Lieutenant Kenneth John PEACOCK Navigator
Flight Lieutenant Roger Stanley MORTON Co Pilot

10 May 73
XL230
Victor SRZ
543 Sqn
RAF Wyton
6

Loss of control during unauthorised asymetric night approach and rolled over. It appears that the pilot may have allowed the speed to decay too much and that he lost control authority and was unable to prevent the aircraft rolling onto its back. As a co pilot, Stevenson had been amongst a crew taking part in a transatlantic race held in 1969 to mark the anniversary of the Alcock and Browne crossing.

Flight Lieutenant Stuart Hawthorne STEVENSON Captain
Flight Lieutenant John Weir PHILIPS 27 Co Pilot
Flight Lieutenant Keith Robert QUINNEY 29 Navigator
Squadron Leader John Philip MUSSON 38 Navigator (Flight Commander)
Flight Lieutenant Richard John SWAIN 33 Navigator
Flight Lieutenant John Henry GIBBS 42 Air Electronics Officer

24 Mar 75
XH618
Victor
KlA
57 Sqn
off Sunderland
4

Mid air collision with Buccaneer XV156. The Victor was taking part in simulated refuelling when the Buccaneer struck the tailplane rendering the Victor immediately uncontrollable. It bunted over and the 'g' forces made it impossible for the crew to escape; the captain, Flight Lieutenant Keith Handscomb managed to reach the ejection handle with the fingers of one hand and although injured was subsequently rescued by a merchant ship. The aircraft exploded as it reached the cloud tops. The Buccaneer was undamaged and returned to base.

Flight Lieutenant David Hallam CROWTHER
Flight Lieutenant Peter Joseph Leo SLATTER
Flying Officer Terence Patrick EVANS
Flying Officer John Arthur PRICE

28 Sep 76
XL513
Victor K2
55 Sqn
RAF Marham
0
Crashed into the overshoot following birdstrike whilst taking off

15 Oct 82
XL232
Victor K2
55 Sqn
RAF Marham
0

Engine explosion and major fire when taking off. The aircraft was brought to a stop and quickly evacuated by its crew and despite prompt attention from the fire crew, the aircraft was engulfed by flames from its heavy fuel load and completely destroyed

19 Jun 86
XL191
Victor K2
55 Sqn
Hamilton Canada
0

Crashed into the undershoot during approach to land. The detailed circumstances of this accident are taught within the RAF flight safety training environment as an example of how not to do things. In essence there was a breakdown in crew cooperation which, when taken with other factors led to the loss of the aircraft

15 Mar 93
XH671
Victor K2
55 Sqn
RAF Marham
0

The main cabin door and the surrounds were damaged beyond repair in a pressure test. The aircraft was not repaired because the type was approaching the end of its service life

FIRST SET OF INFORMATION

UK Flight Testing Accidents 1940-1971 – Derek Collier Web – Air Britain – isbn 0-85120-331-1

SECOND SET OF INFORMATION

To Fly No More Service – Colin Cummings – isbn 0-9526619-2-6
Lost to Service – Colin Cummings - isbn 09526619-0-X

Please note the date difference given for WB771
Collier-Webb gives 1953 whereas Cummings gives 1954
(I think DCW is correct – Any confirmation – Derek was a stickler for accuracy and a good friend. He was editor of PROFILE – the Boscombe Down Safety Magazine Editor for a sevaerl years in the 1990s and actually got me to write several articles for him on Assisted Aircrew escape Systems History. I was never on time, always too wordy – he was a brilliant individual – ever patient with this “civilian writer” – he is sadly missed)

Any further details of ejections form Victors or any other aircraft appreciated

Mike Bennett
Project Get Out and Walk
www.ejection-history.org.uk

Tanker512

16th Jul 2006, 16:03

How about please then?

I must aplogise for the lack of good manners this is my first venture into a large forum

Thanks for your remarks and "Please" to all readers

Tanker512

Tanker512

16th Jul 2006, 16:17

Tanker512

16th Jul 2006, 16:20

Tanker 512

I was a witness to the crash of XA929 at Akrotiri 16/6/62 standing only 300 yards away from it.

Why do you want this info ?

I may be able to help with this crash.

Clint.

Thanks for the rely Clint I have heard a number of stories on this accident but would like to get it correct in my book on the Victor due publication by Pen and Sword in 2 Volumes

Many thanks Tanker 512

Roger

A2QFI

17th Jul 2006, 21:53

I was at Akrotiri at the time and remember the crash, I saw it from an elevated road parallel to the runway. I do recall that there was some problem with the flaps. My dim memory was that the flaps had inadvertantly been selected fully down for take-off, instead of partially lowered to the correct take-off setting. It was not possible to get them from fully down to take-off without selecting them fully up and back down. I am stating this as 40 year old dim recollection and not a matter of fact. I was not a Victor pilot so if you know differently please correct me, but kindly!

Tzyana

20th Oct 2020, 20:02

My Grandfather worked for Handley Page in Crickelwood, London. He was sent to Boscombe Down to work on the then very secret prototype of the HP 80 Victor.
He was an electrician and during a hydraulic test. 2 technicians died when they were sprayed with hydraulic fluid which then caught fire.
My Grandad Edgar A Eyles died from his injuries two weeks later.
There is very little information out there about this incident.

134brat

21st Oct 2020, 18:22

Forgive me if you already know this. Your Grandfather is mentioned by name on p502 of Handley Page Aircraft since 1907 by C H Barnes. There is no detail of the accident but the text provides some context.

I would expect there to have been a unit enquiry into the in incident which should, by now, be a matter of public record. You may be able to find this in the national archive at Kew.

Good luck with your search.

exeng

21st Oct 2020, 21:08

Mike Bennett,

I was surprised to read such a long list of tragic accidents. I had no idea that the Victor had such a history.

Regards
Exeng

denachtenmai

22nd Oct 2020, 10:38

29 Jun 66
XM716
Victor SR2
543 Sqn
Near Warboys Airfield
4
I was a witness to this crash and it was told to me, by a Chief Tech. on 543, that prior to the display the primary A/C went tech. and so the secondary had to be used.
S/L Holland, from what I was told, gave his camera to the Nav. Rad. and said, in as many words, We won't be long, you don't need to come, take some pics.:sad:
From memory the front page of the "Mirror" the next day had a photo of the Victor in a low level climbing right turn labeled "Death of a Giant"

TimL

22nd Oct 2020, 11:46

denachtenmai
I was a witness to this crash and it was told to me, by a Chief Tech. on 543, that prior to the display the primary A/C went tech. and so the secondary had to be used.
S/L Holland, from what I was told, gave his camera to the Nav. Rad. and said, in as many words, We won't be long, you don't need to come, take some pics.:sad:
From memory the front page of the "Mirror" the next day had a photo of the Victor in a low level climbing right turn labeled "Death of a Giant"

You've got it nearly right - it was in fact the Nav Plotter, Doug C*******, who was left on the ground, as he was the Squadron Photo Leader and had not quite finished organising a photo exhibition for the press day. I ended up flying with him for the next eighteen months as my plotter, John Musson, had just been posted to do the Spec N course. John returned later to 543 as a flight commander and sadly was killed in the other 543 crash in 1973.

-- Tim L

denachtenmai

22nd Oct 2020, 13:03

Thanks TimL. all of my info. was second hand, being on 51 and not 543.

57mm

29th Oct 2020, 21:12

Denachtenmai and TimL, my late father in law, George Stratford, was scheduled to fly in Sqn Ldr Holland's crew on that sortie, but thankfully didn't.

TimL

1st Nov 2020, 16:28

57mm

I remember George Stratford well - he was a lovely chap. On one occasion, some of the young copilots were asking him in the crewroom whether he'd had any exciting experiences as a Lancaster rear gunner, and the best he could come up with was a runaway in his electrically heated suit - I suspect he was being modest! Didn't he go on to run a pub near Marham?

-- Tim L

57mm

3rd Nov 2020, 20:29

TimL, indeed he did; two, in fact: the Carpenters Arms at East Winch, then the Jolly Brewers at Shouldham Thorpe. I always remained slightly in awe of him and he, along with my late uncle, were my main inspirations for joining the RAF (besides the Firebirds, of course!)

greycoat

23rd Jul 2023, 10:24

BBC News webpage carrying story today about efforts of fishermen to recover remains of Victor B2 that crashed in Aug 1959:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-66203375

DaveReidUK

23rd Jul 2023, 13:05

BBC News webpage carrying story today about efforts of fishermen to recover remains of Victor B2 that crashed in Aug 1959

While the expression "freak accident" is very overused, I think it's a pretty good description of this event:

"A fatigue fracture induced the loss of the starboard wingtip pitot head tube, which led to a low speed input to the auto Mach trim actuator and the stall detector thus lowering the elevators and extending the leading edge flaps. The aircraft progressed into a high speed dive from 54,000 feet. Partial structural failure preceded impact with the sea at Mach 0.855, into the Irish Sea off St Brides Bay, Pembrokeshire."

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/55309

Loose rivets

23rd Jul 2023, 13:42

James Hamilton-Paterson's super book, Empire of the Clouds, spells out the dangers of early post-war test flying. He made mention (my memory) of the Farnborough DH 110 crash and how in those days there weren't the law suites with their years of litigation. People were expected to get on with life best they could, just as they'd done in the war. Also, the loss of aircrew seemed relentless.

I flew for, and with, Pip/Spud Murphy on DC3s and although I was soon briefed by colleagues, he'd never mentioned what had happened, except that he'd lost a vertebra after ejecting.

I recall Gordon Corpse leaving Avigation (civil licence school) early one afternoon and saying 'That'll have to do. I'm test flying a Victor for the ARB this afternoon'. It seemed strange to me that a private company would be examining us, let alone test flying Vicotors and of course, Concorde. He'd been a Victor captain in the RAF. I might not have been so envious if I'd seen the above lists. It wasn't long before the ARB was absorbed into the ministry of aviation and then the CAA.

oldpax

24th Jul 2023, 02:28

Posted to transit flight Butterworth in 1964, there was a Victor parked there that had an engine shed some blades perforating the fuselage etc.After repairs a crew arrived and flew it out,its documented somewhere,also in my dairy which is not with me!

longer ron

24th Jul 2023, 06:55

28 Sep 76
XL513
Victor K2
55 Sqn
RAF Marham
0
Crashed into the overshoot following birdstrike whilst taking off

I was a Rigger J/T on 231 OCU at that time - we had been moved lock stock and barrel from Cottesmore and 'ensconced' in the condemned buildings with external shoring adjacent to the threshold of rwy 24.
I was doing a 'starter crew ' with a T4 crew on the 'spectacles' pan right next to the rwy when 513 thundered off up the hill (which got my attention :) ),I turned back to the aircraft - probably nearing the time to swing the seat and remove the 'Pig Sticker' from the control column when there was a sudden deathly hush as 513's throttles were 'chopped'.
I looked around as 513 was disappearing over the rwy 'Hump' streaming the brake chute and thought to myself - ''should be ok from there'' - however I looked round a few seconds later to check and sure enough there was a large pall of smoke from the other end of the airfield - because of the Marham 'Hill' I could not actually see the end of the rwy.
I then said to the T4 QFI ''not worth starting engines'' (or words to that effect) whilst pointing at the pall of smoke - obviously they were not going anywhere.
IIRC - the K2 had only very recently been cleared for full fuel take offs ? we were much more used to the K1's going off in pairs.

bean

27th Jul 2023, 08:15

NRU74

27th Jul 2023, 21:01

This was only a minor 'accident'
I was on a so-called Pacific Ranger on Victor Tankers in c 1968 ish with the same Ken McClean (sp) as the Captain. We were en route from Offutt to McClellan and air traffic, who were helping us, gave us a very very quick descent clearance but we were far too fast and instead of going around Ken decided to land. He also decided not to deploy the brake chute (which was an absolute barsteward to repack). Anyway after shutting down, the brakes were making lots of smoke. We went to San Francisco for the weekend.On Monday morning the Crew Chief said that 7 of the 8 brakes were leaking so we were stuck in California for a week. We went to Lake Tahoe, Carson City and Reno etc. We then set off for Hickham and - dare I say- fortunately, the eighth brake unit was leaking so we were stuck in Hawaii for another five days. We then got to Wake where we were grounded for a week as there was some corrosion problem which needed an x ray test from the UK. We were then ordered to return to the UK via Hickam McClellan etc.
It was the best trip I ever did on the Tanker Force !