ASA / RAAF ATC JV ?

[BurglarsDog]

Have heard that several ASA ops exec types have recently visited Europe looking at purchasing a new tower sim for a proposed JV with the RAAF? :ooh: Anyone able to expand?

[Shitsu_Tonka]

Didn't coincide with the World Cup, this arduous overseas travel did it?

Obviously our $120 bottles of Australian wine are just not good enough.

[No Further Requirements]

Sounds like a good plan. The RAAF's one is getting a bit old (although it was quite good for its day with 200 degree projection) and AsA's PC with 4 monitors is a bit of a joke. I hope they can get their collective acts together and come up witha workable joint training scheme.

Cheers,

NFR.

[yarrayarra]

Rumour around that all tower training (Civvie and Military) to be done at West Sale. Judging by what I've seen in certain towers, it's well over due that some decent training occurred. A massive change in attitude required now that Airport Services is now back in the Airservices fold. For years it's been "i've been doing it this way for xxxxyears so get f....ed" - well the answer is "you've been doing it the WRONG way for xxxxyears so YOU get f....ed"

[yarrayarra]

Correction to my previous- training to be done at East Sale - doh!

[Fox3snapshot]

It would be quite novel that although more than 50 years have gone by since the end of WW2 and the real birth of ATC we may all finally hold hands, military and civil, and sing "koom-by-yah!"

Well overdue and hope it goes well.

:cool:

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

yarrayarraRumour around that all tower training (Civvie and Military) to be done at West Sale. … East Sale, …. The location I do not believe has been formalised .. yet! Judging by what I've seen in certain towers, it's well over due that some decent training occurred. …. Depends on the type of tower to which you refer …. RADAR – GAAP – Regional Procedural D/C Tower/Approach …. The others I cannot speak for, however , in a regional D sense, the trainees often have difficulty coming to grips with Procedural/TSAD approach … I did :\ … even with other tower and enroute experience beforehand … that said … the simulation for these purposes will be a large improvement … the other issue is of course the general experience of many D trainees (less than 3 years in some cases).
…. Not that many years ago Proc D/C towers were for experienced ATC’s only …. Often solo op’s, and a complex environment that requires broad previous experience!
…. The current operational check and training that sits behind Regionals is IMHO the best it can be with the resources available (the two roving check and stando’s are doing a great job of monitoring and compliance – those in the know are well aware that this process is no box ticking exercise!!!) … standardising, and harmonising the MATS document with the MOS/ICAO (including a recent history review comparison of AOI), compliance is a must for our neck of the woods – tis a fact ... and its been underway for years!!A massive change in attitude required now that Airport Services is now back in the Airservices fold. For years it's been "i've been doing it this way for xxxxyears so get f....ed" - well the answer is "you've been doing it the WRONG way for xxxxyears so YOU get f....ed" …. That’s a very broad brush my friend ….. depends on what exactly you are referring to …. As I said earlier … if you are in anyway suggesting towers (particularly D towers) are not operating to the required ‘operational’ standards (must be mountains of ESIR’s if they/we are not!! … is there??) ….. then yer gunna be invited to a gun fight at the OK coral!!! ….. := :hmm: ... :E
.
Regional Services might not 'currently' have the resources that the battery hens in the centres have, however …… the commitment and professionalism of coalface staff (in both arenas) is second to none (remember regional staff operate these services solo in many cases)
.
….. unless you have/do work in these areas and are properly aware of the C&S work underway … then please do not presume to be in a position to tell towers they are ‘doing it WRONG’ !!! :suspect:
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… if yer talkin’ about support resources and modern equipment …. then I plead no contest ... and apologise in advance for the spray above !! :E

[Hempy]

They were training civil ATC's for the tower stream at East Sale 10 years ago... :hmm:

They are looking at either a 360° or 180° tower sim for the Melbourne college, but given the tender process, "watch this space" (for 10 years;) ).

After the resounding success of "Project Genesis" (Pearce-Perth App), expect joint ventures to become common place. Airservices LOVE Raafie controllers, they don't have to spend money training them.....

[BurglarsDog]

Thanks everyone for the feedback on topic. Would still appreciate any ASA input ? After all it makes financial sense to combine some elements of ATC training, and it doesnt have to take years to sort out a winning bid. Emirates Aviation College - Dubai, and the Deutscheflugsicherung - Frankfurt, were up and running with new sims between birthday cakes; and Airways NZ built their own within a similar timescale.

SDDog raises a valid point about the training implications associated with the different airspace classifications though. ASA provides ATC services within a variety of airspaces; C / D , GAAP , procedural, etc whereas the RAAF only provide services within class C. Each has its own unique rules and regulations - and training requirements. And training time is money.
As far as I know, ICAO common core content only includes learning outcomes associated directly with pure TWR control (052 course). Any thing else i .e procedural considerations, is an add on / bastardisiation.

Airways NZ insist that all students attend 051 ( Basic theory) 052 (Tower)and then 053 (App proced) consecutively before passing basic ab initio training and going on to OJT at a Tower. If you pass tower (052) and fail App procedural (053) then you are cactus! You dont get to pass Go and fail the "TWR course". Looking at the OJT requirements on the job in NZ there is some merit in this as you would soon become dead wood and unpostable if you couldnt handle a procedural tower.

Not sure if ASA do the same thing.

One thing Ive found on my wordly travels is that ATC training isnt standard - despite the best efforts of the watchdog with no teeth (ICAO) !!

What to train, to whom, and when, may be worth another thread by someone who can type more quickly than me

DogGone. :ok: