The Chosen Few

[Hydrant]

I find the following hilarious!!
Why is it a "select few" within J* are going onto the A330 as Captains when they dont even meet the external requirements for a direct entry command onto the A330.
The qualifications and widebody experience level from "this group" wouldn't qualify for them for a direct entry A330 command anywhere in the world.
These guys have the rest of the J* pilot group conned.
Would this be to"by-pass" the three year contractual agreement, to dispense with seniority !!
Surely not given the previous history of this group of "gentleman".

[jack red]

Get used to it Hydrant we've all been conned. I can't wait 'till the Middle East recruits arrive here and find out they have been subjected to the biggest con job since the movie "Sting". A couple of months with this mob and I'll bet Emirates won't look so bad after all.:)

Who in their right mind would pay $38,000 for a rating with these assholes to secure a job. :mad: Apologies to Vee Wun Kutt

[Aussie]

I agree with your last comment...

But you get those that do! :{

Aussie

[Vee Won Kutt]

Jack Red. I am sorry I did not reply earlier on the 'Eastern' Thread.

Just quickly.

As of August (if I was to start) with Jetstar the FO pay rates go up to a base of about $83k - and with expected overtime, expenses etc I think $100k would be achievable (note post elsewhere - capt pulled $171k). F/O mates at Jetstar and Virgin already getting payed over $100k.

$100k - $50k - tax = pay off $33550 ($38k ??) in no more than 2 years.

2-3 years for command? - I did say 'possibly'. That is the figure being thrown around. I suspect much quicker than a command at Eastern anyway.

In summary, Jetstar and Virgin both leave a lot to be desired - I don't argue that, but they would be far better than what I have now. If I don't like it I have the option to rot in Eastern - for me it's an easy choice.

[Vee Won Kutt]

:{
Why should it make you cry Aussie? I presume you already have a great job and are happy doing it. Why should it worry you if someone else like me is prepaired to pay? Being asked to pay for an endoresment without any retention bonus is low, I agree. However would you :{ if I was left rotting at Eastern? Would you :{ for any of the other pilots out there who want to get further ahead, but who may disagree with this policy, so chose to rot in whatever they are doing now?

Take it out on the company, not guys like us.

If you are in a postion like me and have little other option, then hats off to you, and good luck with fighting your 'moral crusade':ok: .

If you already have a great job, and didn't have to pay for the endorsement, then hats off to you - you are very fortunate to be in that position:ok: .

To me it seems so ironic that everybody in a fortunate position expects others less fortunate to fight their 'moral crusades' for them.

It's been said before and it won't hurt to bring it up again: To fight stuff like this we need to be unified. If you people in your fortunate positions expect us to go into bat for you, then when are you going to go into bat for us? We havn't, and you havn't either. In reality whats the point in the present industrial climate? We would both lose.

However, I ask you Aussie, Jack Red and others like you, to remember that having a position of privilege does not make you a better person. Please put youself in my/our shoes. By all means get angry with companies such as Jetstar, but don't take it out on the pilot applicants. When you make statements like the ones above it seems very narrow-minded, arrogant, and 'Holier than Tho-ish'.

[Hydrant]

Not trying to deviate from the thread, but it is so pathetic to see guys including "expected overtime","allowances","expenses" and superannuation as part of the dismal package on offer by these low cost operators.
J*PC and constituents have stooped to an all time industry low !!!!!

[Vee Won Kutt]

Hydrant - No arguement with the fact that the pay is poor. However the $50k I quoted as income from Eastern included 'allowances' too. I was simply stating that if I were to start with Jetstar that my income would be significantly better than what I have now (with or without the extras).

[Eagleman]

Why are you worrying about the EK boys? They are big boys who have been given a base salary exceeding an 85 hour per month 320 captain. They know that they will not be demoted and will be the first pilots in this part of the world to command the 787. They have the power Watch who takes control of the JPC in the coming twewlve months.

Seniority is dead at JQ. DEAD, or for the deaf, DEAD. (I don't feel up to doing a braille version). If any of the JQ lads with high seniority numbers think they are of any worth or that they will ever get on to the initial widebody courses, go get the Castle out and watch it. Daz will give you the answer.

AWA's will be introduced. RG (JQ head of people), JG (head of safety read Chief Pilot) Gerry Fooookem the COO and Freehills have produced the documents. Joyce has given Dixon an undertaking to introduce AWA's within the Group.

The JPC effectively stuffed all the current JQ pilots when they accepted the international flying. I have been reliably informed that JQ had build a 25% pay diff for the wide body into their business case. The fact they conned the JPC to accept 10% less is a great achievement and will be reflected in AJ's bonus this year. A bonus that should see him take home just short of $2m for the year!! The forementioned AWA drafters will also get around $70K bonuses! Oh to be a LCC CEO!

Rick, Brook, Brad you are heroes not!..And you have stuff the one guy on the JPC who knew the value of the pilots. JH, if only they had listened to you. :ugh:

Don't worry about Argentina!

[Magoodotcom]

Cripes...how many bloody J* threads are going at the moment???:*

Woomerii...Can't they all be combined into a 'service' thread, and a 'safety' thread?

Magoo

[jack red]

Vee Wun Kutt you say F/O mates at Jetstar and Virgin already getting payed over $100k.
. If your "F/O mates" told you that........well.......I won't call them liars but they aren't telling you the truth.:=

[Vee Won Kutt]

If your "F/O mates" told you that........well.......I won't call them liars but they aren't telling you the truth.

Oh ok. I will believe you then.

[TurbTool]

Eagleman. I don't know where you get your info and I am not saying you are necessarily wrong. But a mate of mine at Emirates was offered a position as a checkie on the A330. He was concerned at the prospect of being busted back to F.O. at the end of three years and asked if the Company would guarantee him this would not happen. The answer was NO, it cannot be guaranteed because we have an agreement in place, however we don't think it will affect you based on current indications. When he enquired about the pay and conditions he was told it would be as contained in the current Jetstar Agreement (as varied for widebody flying). There certainly was no additional inducement offered to him. Maybe others have been treated differently.

As for the insinuation that seniority is dead, I understand from a mate at Jetstar that none of the Jetstar pilots (except one or two with significant Airbus/international experience) expect a position on the first three widebody aircraft, to ensure an acceptable body of experience, however the next three widebody positions have already been allocated to existing Jetstar pilots. Some of these are quite a surprising way down the list but are pre-jetstar startup seniority. My mate mentioned that it was expected that the Company would not have enough internal applicants to fill all the widebody command and F.O. vacancies and the only way all the widebody positions would be filled is if there were enough external applicants. (apparently there are at this stage)

Maybe Jetstar does want to introduce AWA's but it does make it hard to understand why they would go to so much trouble to vary the existing agreement to include the widebody. It maybe that the AWA's are being held in reserve till the end of the existing agreement. I don't know that any outfit including QF are impervious to that threat under the new IR laws.

[golow]

I love how people talk about all the commands that are to happen. I havn't seen one FO upgraded in about 6 - 8 months. All the new captains are from Jetstar Asia. Its like the Price is right TV show " come on down"
All the pilots are working hard and being screwed and the company wonders why people are not happy.
Eagleman is right, the JPC got what they wanted and too bad about everyone else. When is the next vote.

[Hydrant]

Let me guess, the J* pilots from Singapore have STRONG connections to the current "inner sanctum" management.
Laughable , again i say guys at J* are being conned out of this world.
Cloak and Dagger stuff from "the experienced" at the good of the "groups" expense.
Seniority to these guys is an ugly word.
A need to "by- pass" the system at any cost under the pretence of "experience".
Just have a look at where your vast majority of "gentleman" came from prior to J*.
Now back in the "little time" flying for a industry destroying package at your expense and THEIR gain.

[UNOME]

I think the promotion of the 320 F/O (with zero longhaul/widebody exp) directly to 330 Capt/Training Capt about sums it up. :D

[tifters]

Vee wunn kutt....good post mate and spot on. I am in a safe position (up here in CX) and i shake my head in disbelief at this industry. It is a scramble and "everyone" is out for themselves first and foremost!! No reason why you shouldnt either! The only thing that will ever change things back in our favour is a lack of supply, something that is definitely cutting into the industry already. Get yourself into a good position whilst you can, there will be no loyalty towards these airlines, especially after all these years they have enjoyed screwing the pilot body where and when they could!!!!
The pendulum will turn in our favour again and that is when we need the unity, in these times there is little hope of it when good jobs are still scarce to come by. I honestly hope that we can all band together when the time is ours again and make sure we install in concrete in our AWAs the benefits and perks that have been more than lacking in recent years!!!
Good luck to all!!!!!
:ok:

[Eagleman]

TurbTool,

I can assure you my information is accurate.

Carefully listen to what AJ says or doesn't say.

AWA contract have been drafted.

Check what sort of contracts the current management pilots are on. They are up for renewal or return to the ranks as F/O's.

[frijmagnit]

UNOME, f/o to trainer on the 330? Sounds doable if you reflect on the meteoric rise to fame of some of the current crop of managers when they were at AN. F/o to fleet management in a very short time. So they were groomed in the way of 'looking after your mates by the bloke who just about had a monopoly on the practice at AN, the fearless leader MR.:rolleyes:

[Pete Conrad]

AWA'a are coming regardless..the widebody addition to the J* EBA that the band of merry men at the JPC signed pretty much assured that. That being what they have signed is binding in perpetuity, or until they sign AWA's.

You ask half the J* guys and they wouldn't be able to tell you what they have signed, only that they did it because they succombed to AJ and because five years ago half of them were flying 1900's in the boondocks. They don't give a rats about the impact it has on all the other pilot groups. It's the way Dicko's engineered the whole thing, and he picked a pack of vultures in Impulse to see it through.

When J* started three years ago an Impulse 717 pilot called Chuck Yeager told me that they wanted to shaft the ex AN guys..I think they set themselves up for a fall a long time ago.

[TurbTool]

Pete C, pretty sad post mate.

Just in case you're interested do you remember which was the first pilot group in Australia to turn its back on all other pilots saying "stuff you ,you sorry lot,we will look after ourselves, 'cause after all we are the only ones of any real significance in the Australian aviation scene."? Splitting off from an organisation that represented all pilots, that had made made enormous improvements in Terms and Conditions for all those pilots, and forming its own little elitist group, not caring about anyone else.

Guess what, nothing appears to have changed in 25 odd years.

Who can blame people for getting on with the job and looking after themselves?