BMI

[The Moo]

BMI to DME

Good luck to all the bmi crew.
This route is vile on the airbus. The russians bring on loads and loads of handbaggage drink the bars dry then all stand in the aisles waiting for the loo as they have all drunk so much.

Nice to hear the the seat pitch will be increased to offer a proper biz service product.

Is it going to be a fixed config or a convertable one. as BA often go with over 100 in club ?

[Halfwayback]

I understand that it will be fixed config on a dedicated aircraft and will offer the same service as the long haul - including IFE.:)

HWB

[The Moo]

I think this will be the most positive thing midland has done in many years and I wish them all the best they can print money on this route.
I just hope that like so many previous routes they just don't drop it after six months.

As said before good luck bmi.

Suprise suprise a positive midland/bmi post

[sevenforeseven]

Good luck BMI, I have slated the company for a long time but this is a move in the right direction.

BA move over.

[routemargo]

Will bmi use an existing aircraft for this new service or are new aircraft on order?

[DTVAirport]

Two more A319s have been ordered to bring the total to 11. however I believe a specially configured A320 will operate the route as well as Transaero equipment, not sure if that has already been mentioned or not, didn't read all the replies. Apologies if it has.

Good luck to them.

[jethro15]

Anyone able to confirm the acquisition of an additional 3 B733's for bmiBaby?

jethro
UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings
http://www.jethros.i12.com

[DTVAirport]

Weren't the 735s supposed to be replaced by additional 733's?

Also, one of those 733s will hopefully become the third based aircraft at Durham Tees Valley! :D

[RobinDR1050]

bmibaby will have 3 additional 733 aircraft for next summer, no 500's will be departing at present, bases and routes not diecided yet.........

[BHDflyer]

Does anyone know the actual reason why bmi are giving up their Airbus A321 aircraft? This has led to bmi staff at airports ,very much BHD, becoming extremely frazzled as they are having to tell unhappy passengers that their flights are overbooked and that they aren't able to travel (the route to Heathrow has been replaced by 319's/320's). Staff are complaining to the management and bmi have said it is happening all over the network where the 321 has ceased operations :ugh:

[True Blue]

How about falling passenger numbers? Pax numbers to LHR have been falling almost since the route moved from BFS to BHD, according to the stats on the Caa site. Just 55k pax in June and 52K in Jan and Feb. The charges alone out of BHD are more than I have paid on Easy for fare and charges. With the Easy increase to LGW to 5 daily, LGW will soon be the main route out of N Ireland. At the moment it has only about 7K less per month than the numbers to LHR. And to think before the move to BHD and the withdrawal of BA, BFS to LHR was a route carrying at times 110k per month. I wonder if BMI ever regret moving to BHD? They certainly have lost my business and I travel frequently.

True Blue

[johnrizzo2000]

I wonder if the pax numbers on their LHR-DUB route have also been falling? It's just A320's and A319's in DUB now, but at least we have 14 times daily EI to LHR!

[leiflyer]

BMI have droppped the daily LHR-NCE service from their winter timetable - passengers will be rebooked onto BA. It would appear that the route may well start again with the summer timetable.

Source: BMI trade website

[Lucifer]

Does anyone know the actual reason why bmi are giving up their Airbus A321 aircraft?
Returned to lessor at end of lease.

[Cyrano]

Lucifer

But with respect, that's like the excuse for a delayed departure, "due to the late arrival of the operating aircraft." Yes, it's true, as far as it goes, but it doesn't really provide much enlightenment.
bmi could have chosen to sign new leases and keep the aircraft (most lessors would be happy to leave their aircraft with the existing operator rather than incur redelivery costs and downtime). Clearly they chose not to do so, and to return the aircraft at the end of their leases instead - because they felt the A321 was too big for most of their operations, because the lease rates they were being quoted were out of line, who knows?

[scruggs]

Complete change of topic within the remit of BMI; why are they not painting their A321's in the new livery?

[agent x]

havent you been reading the posts? Errrr...cos the lease on the A321's is up and they are giving them up! Why bother painting them?:ugh:

[scruggs]

"havent you been reading the posts?" No.

I didn't realise realise their 321's were leased. Thanks for the info, although the sarcastic tone was not necessary.

eP

[fadec_primary_channel]

due to disposals, but the situation is exacerbated by a sizeable summer charter program. This involves changes to equipment on many routes, more so at weekends.

FPC ;)

[Alloy]

Some of BMI's leased 321s are going to Monarch.:ok:

[scruggs]

I noticed G-MIDE is now G-OZBL at Monarch. Any idea how many more will follow?

Cheers,
eP :ok:

[DTVAirport]

G-MIDM has been leased to ArkeFly from Jun - Oct 06, I presume this will be related to the deal in which bmi are leasing two ArkeFly Boeing 767-300ERs?

Source: www.jethros.i12.com

[DTVAirport]

IIRC it was one of the first to go.

[keepitlit]

ib,
what do you mean a scarey take off!,MIDC is owned by SMB and will be around a bit longer,rumour has it they are looking for more 321's

rgds K.I.L.

[DTVAirport]

Looking for more?! Hell! They can't get rid of them fast enough by all accounts!

[OPENROAD]

I wonder if the pax numbers on their LHR-DUB route have also been falling? It's just A320's and A319's in DUB now, but at least we have 14 times daily EI to LHR!


LHR -Dub its still A321's as of few days ago, and as always they are full to capacity.

[True Blue]

From the stats on the Caa site, it would seem that the monthly pax numbers on the Bhd to Lhr route just keep on falling. We now have the Belfast Telegraph newspaper running a high profile campaign about the way civil servants in the province are spending tax-payers money. They highlighted that they spend £60k per month flying business class on this route, the main reason that BD apparently kept business class on the Bhd route. If that spend is ended, makes it harder for BD. What are the chances that they will take the route back to Bfs and hand it over to Bmibaby, giving them great critical mass at Bfs?

Any views?

True Blue

[Little Blue]

I don't think that you'll see baby operating into LHR !
Well, not yet, anyhow.

[The Moo]

won't see baby at lhr eh.

Thats what they said about bmi reg.

Now the embryo is there all the time

[Hudson Bay]

The 2 aircraft to go to BHX.

Thats it.

[Stretchwell]

Where is MME ?!

[keepitlit]

teeside

rgds
K.I.L.

[Cyrano]

Where is MME ?!
Teesside.

(Typing something like "three letter code MME" into Google would get you an immediate answer rather more efficiently, you know... :rolleyes: )

Back to the original subject. First, is this unconfirmed rumour or something resembling fact? Second, if two aircraft are going to BHX, is there going to be a corresponding increase in routes/frequencies there?

[Straight & Level]

EGNV - What used to be Teesside now known as Durham Tees Valley! :rolleyes:

[who the daddy]

It's True, baby operation to cease at Teeside, but no confirmation of where the 2 aircraft will go

[ajamieson]

Ah, so it's bmibaby to cease operations at MME, not bmi as per the thread title...?

[ContIgnt]

Guys,

Sorry to hear about your base closure.
I hope the new was broken to you a bit more gently than the email I just received entitled "Strike threat lifted / MME".

Come on management, have a little bit more tact, will you ?!

[Globaliser]

Where is MME ?!This (http://www.airlinecodes.co.uk) is always a good site for these and similar questions.

[MaxRange120]

You will find more details on this as a press release on the bmibaby website
MR120
bmibaby to end operations at Durham Tees Valley Airport
bmibaby, will be terminating services at Durham Tees Valley Airport.
,
All flights between Durham Tees Valley Airport and Cork, Paris (COG) and London Gatwick will be cancelled from the 29th October 2006
All flights between Durham Tees Valley and Alicante, Malaga and Palma will be cancelled from 6th November 2006
Customers that are affected by these cancellations are entitled to a full refund. The refund will be processed automatically and credited to the original form of payment
that was made to purchase the flights within the next 28 days. Therefore, there is ne need to contact bmibaby direct.
For customers whose travel itinerary falls within the cancellation period (for example the outward journey is before the cancellation date but the return journey is after thE cancellation date) then they are also entitled to a full refund which must be claimed
before their date of travel by contacting the bmibaby reservations team on 0871 22i 0224. The opening hours are 0800 to 2100 hours, seven days a week.
In line with bmibaby terms and conditions, bmibaby will not be responsible for any additional charges incurred as a result of these cancellations. All passengers are advised to pursue any claims for additional expenses via their own personal travel insurers.

[gofer]

This (http://www.airlinecodes.co.uk) is always a good site for these and similar questions. Agreed, best I've found so far, Thanks, Gofer

[angels]

bmibaby will not be responsible for any additional charges incurred as a result of these cancellations.

What callous treatment of pax who booked in all good faith at a time when bmi baby probably knew the routes were being to be canned.

Charming.

[who the daddy]

The baby website's announcment makes no apology to the customers....how sad.

I'm also a bit cynical that this decision was announced just after the strike being called off ??

Good luck to all the staff in finding work elsewhere

[Eddie_Crane]

Just resurrecting this thread with a question... I hope this is the right place to ask. If not, please forgive me..

Was just browsing a few airline sites and looking at the bmi site, it states the fleet as a number of Busses and also EMB jets. I thought bmi was a Bus-only airline. Are the EMBs part of bmi mainline or are they the "regional outfit"?

[toledoashley]

Good question - think they are on regional. However they can sub for mainline.

[easyjetter]

I have some friends who have booked out of Teeside with bmibaby to Malaga on the 16th November and again in February. As has been stated before, they are getting a full refund, but wouldn't it have been "nice" of the airline if they had been offered seats from another airport at the same price they originally paid. There is capacity as i've checked on their website. I think it's a terrible way to treat their customers.:ugh:

[Hudson Bay]

This one didn't even get going!!!

[Piltdown Man]

Makes you wonder if their poor performance has anything to do with the name change. After all, I'd suggest that more people know where Teesside is than Darlington Municial Airfield or whatever the kno:mad:head who changed its name decided to call it.

No doubt some clown from the airfield management will come out with a line like "This announcement absolutely confirms the soundness of our investment and marketing strategy etc..."

[DTVAirport]

The name change will have played a role in todays tragic announcement, but what's done is done and it's time to forget the past and start getting behind the airport and supporting its future.

[Eddie_Crane]

Right-o, thanks for that.
I do know there is a bmi regional outfit, but there isn't a "clear cut" fleet distinction on their website. One would assume the EMBs operate as regional a/c's.

[DTVAirport]

All Embraer's in the bmi fleet operate for bmi regional, occasionally operating for mainline, the morning LHR-MME rotation a good example of them operating for mainline. If you look at the forward fuselage of bmi regional Embraer's you'll notice it says "regional" underneath bmi.

[Eddie_Crane]

Thanks for that DTVAirport!!!
Looked up a couple of pictures from airliners.net and that confirms your answer. It wasn't so clear from bmi's own website.
"Puzzle solved".

[BALLSOUT]

Who do you think may step in?
I see on the local news that the airport authority are half way through a large terminal redevelopment especialy to cater for baby. They must be frantic to do a deal right now. My money is on Mol.
Down the road from easy and smack in the middle of jet2

[s_insania]

Terminal frontage work supposed to be complete sometime this week! Were just putting the last few doors in, was the last news I heard!
Hope FlyGlobespan or Jet2 do step in, otherwise the airport's future could go rapidly downhill :=
Anybody think Flybe may take the Gatwick? Also, BMI's Heathrow will surely be in doubt soon enough

Cheers,
Sam

[airhumberside]

What about a TOM scheduled base at MME? They already have a charter base there and have a good relationship with Peel.

[darren1]

This one didn't even get going!!!

Along with EDI-MUC and LTN-BRU!!!

Never trust BMI:ugh:

[BHDflyer]

There has just got to be people who want to fly Belfast to Heathrow, and for bmi to axe would be a disgrace. Lets face it bmibaby are NOT going to come to heathrow just to operate Belfast flights. It would make alot more sense if bmi just pulled business class service on the route, I mean why wait and be sorry to hear that civil servants will no longer be using it, in other words do it quick before MORE money is lost! We also have to take into account that as we speak, 321's are leaving the fleet which means the smaller aircraft come in, which may be another reason that there is a continuing loss.

Concerning the 321's, I have seen G-MIDC operate a charter flight to Ibiza from Belfast International, it just brought me back to about 1998 when the aircraft were new to British Midland, and one went out about every two hours to Heathrow, and boy was the service profitable back then. Those were the days.

[True Blue]

BHD Flyer

As an observer, it seems to me that BMI are in all sorts of bother. It is very easy to lose the plot, very difficult to get the right plan back again. I think that their move from Bfs to Bhd was a big mistake, you only have to look at the monthly pax figures to see that. Airlines don't operate routes to see the pax in steady decline. The charges out of BHD are a joke and if more pax paid attention to that charge, they would have lower pax. Just think also, if Baby and mainline were both at Bfs, the critical mass that they would achieve.

A move back to Bfs, don't rule it out. What about further expansion at Bfs from Baby?

True Blue

[GROUNDRUSH]

Announced yesterday, BMI Baby essentially pulling out of Teesside. Official line is that base not sufficiently profitable. Is it as simple as that?

[BAforever]

With Baby having the realesed 3 737 and two new ones, is it going to be one more for each of their other bases and if so what routes will they serve?:ok:

[HZ123]

At the risk of stating the obvious if BMI Baby can't cut it why should anyone else be able to do better. Is there not to much on offer up the road.

[Piltdown Man]

Maybe another name change will sort it out. How about "Newcastle York Dick Wittington International Airport" and charge to the people who have been operating there for years - like before!

[Count von Altibar]

Operated the LHR-DUB route in the last few days and the flights were all A321 and pretty much full to capacity, lowest figue was about 130ish

[nitefiter]

so whats the latest big announcement for tommorrow,any truth in this ,all managers back at the hall for a monday announcement?

[ryanair1]

maybe its that the airline will be cutting routes? and fleet?

or expanding long-haul?

or selling baby? or integrating 'regional'

or merging with virgin

or adopting a low-cost culture across the entire fleet?

WHO CARES - ITS BMI FOR GOODNESS SAKE NOT THE HOLY GRAIL. WHAT POSSIBLE ANNOUNCEMENT WILL BE MET WITH EXCITEMENT AND ANTICIPATION????

SIR MICHAEL STANDING DOWN PERHAPS AND TAKING A LARGE PAYMENT?

[lexxity]

WHO CARES - ITS BMI FOR GOODNESS SAKE NOT THE HOLY GRAIL. WHAT POSSIBLE ANNOUNCEMENT WILL BE MET WITH EXCITEMENT AND ANTICIPATION????


The 4000 staff for a start, what an ignorant post.

[BHDflyer]

Will It go?:confused:

[DTVAirport]

So as I gather from the above threads there is to be a bmi announcement either today or tomorrow?

[FlyZB]

Anybody got any idea's with regard to what this announcement is likely to be? Will it finally be some good news from bmi? As reported on another forum, they've announced today an increase in frequencies on the MAN - ABZ and MAN - GLA routes, so hopefully there will be more good news to follow. Without meaning to capitalise on MME's misfortune, it will surely be good news for the other bmibaby bases as they should capitalise on the deployed aircraft and also the 2 new additions to the fleet for next summer. Let's hope for something imaginative from WW in terms of new routes, across all four of its existing bases. And before anyone laughs off that comment, just have a think as to how many other airlines offer the likes of BOD and PGF from the UK. Not so many! They've pulled it out of the bag before, here's to hoping they can do it again.

[BHDflyer]

so whats the latest big announcement for tommorrow,any truth in this ,all managers back at the hall for a monday announcement?

Where did you here there would be an announcement. Am I visiting this forum every 30 minutes for no reason, or will there actually be one:confused: If it's just reminding us the increase in Manchester to Scotland routes then I wouldn't really call it a big announcement.

[BHDflyer]

still no announcement?:bored:

[DTVAirport]

They might have just informed the top guys yesterday, today might be the public announcement.

[bmi expat]

Looks like the announcement is flat beds in the business on the A330s and the return of an A330 to KSA operations. About time with the flat beds, at last a sensible decision for Donington Hall!

[Muizenberg]

The Press release on flybmi.com for the 19th September 2006, is regarding istallation of flat beds on the A330....BHDflyer looks like the LHR-BHD route is safe for now...don't know how BD could even think about pulling off/reducing frequency as it's Ulster's link to LHR and thus the world...

[eastern wiseguy]

reducing frequency

Dunno...they have done it before.......

link to LHR and thus the world

Continental via EWR and EZY via AMS/LGW might just have put a tiny hole in that balloon...

[sugarlime]

Will It go?:confused:

Doubt very much that it will go (at the moment)

An interesting point to note however, which has since gone on the back burner (ever since the rather sudden and embaressing removal of BHD-BHX by BA....after how many months??????) was that BA Connect were to serve BHD-LCY Daily 4 times per day. ;)

Then with the bad publicity from the BHD-BHX etc things have been put on hold.

But this I will say......with a complimentary hot breakfast etc (BA Connects catering from LCY and vice versa is complimentary) I would imagine that BMI would be hit quite badly. It will be interesting to see if this route is pushed to the forefront again in the coming months.

[elgan]

So where will the KSA A330 come from? MAN?

[toolonggone]

LHR-BHD route will not cease operations within the next 12 months. They may alter the capacity on the route, but not much more than that.

[9 minutes to landing]

message from the cc`s recent meeting at DH with SMDB is that the forward bookings have dropped off the edge of a cliff and things are not looking brilliant - thought to be a combination of security / LHR and imminent pilot strike - can anyone remember the last time they operated in Normal flow?
Have a look at the CAA website for pax figures on routes that bmi have a monopoly on (LHR-BHD and LHR-MME and LHR-LBA ) and compare the present - past figures, they are all down.

[The Moo]

Wow under the 'notes to editors' part of the bmi press realease it says "All other long haul routes offer three cabins – the business (18 lie-flat beds from June 2007), premium economy (30 beds) and economy (172 beds"

Thats 220 beds on the bmi 330 wow. How do they do it ?????

[queenvic]

It appears from 30/10 - 8/11 BMI will be reducing its flights to BOM, JED, RUH to the 767 going for its c-check.

Acoording to their website over this period flight will run

LHR - BOM on 29/10, 2/11, 3/11, 6/11 and 9/11
LHR - JED on 31/10, 5/11, 7/11 and 12/11
LHR - RUH on 30/10, 1/11, 4/11 and 8/11

All returning flights arrive back at LHR the following day

[smudgethecat]

queenvic

might be reducing there routes sooner now that one of the a330,s is grounded for a while

[wingattack]

What's up with the grounded 330??
Rumour has it that the 4th 330 will be here by the end of the year. Any one know any more?
ps Why do we still do ABZ? Couldn't even fill an EMB 145 at the moment.

[lexxity]

We still do ABZ because it is a major route for the oil companies. Usually very busy too from MAN.

Which 330 is grounded?

[DTVAirport]

What's up with the grounded 330??
Rumour has it that the 4th 330 will be here by the end of the year. Any one know any more?
ps Why do we still do ABZ? Couldn't even fill an EMB 145 at the moment.As much as I would love to see the 4th A332 (which is currently with Emirates as A6-EAS for those who don't know) it's been rumoured to be arriving since mid 2005.

[wingattack]

Perhaps I should have said a 330 rather than the 330. Heard that Virgin might be getting a load of 330s because they can't get any 777s and that they might lend us one. Good news about the flat beds though, and also the return of the 330 to the Saudi routes.
With regard to oil companies using LHR-ABZ, have not carried more than about 40 pax on a 130-seat 319 all summer. Hardly call it a major route unless of course they are all paying £3000 one-way, which I doubt.
How about giving all pax a free sandwich and coffee, cost £3.50 and add £3.50 to the cost of each ticket. Would any of our former customers be tempted back to us by this? Answers on a postcard.
Finally, why is the huge bmi poster on the M25 now upside-down and back-to-front? Is the seat sale over or have we neglected to pay our advertising people?

[lexxity]

It is a major route from MAN where we use the ERJ. Very busy with all the oil rig workers going up and down. So popular that we are adding extra rotations.

[DTVAirport]

I'm worried about what the load factors on the LHR-MME flights will be in say six months from now - a lot of people I have spoken to recently don't know that bmi and bmibaby are separate airlines therefore are assuming that the London Heathrow link will be chopped along with all the baby routes. :ugh: :{ :( :* :oh: :mad: :uhoh:

[LHRKLBD]

Hi guy new to the site.:)

Rumor at LHR is that the MME service will be dropped and the Slots used for the US flights that are due to start in March 07.

GWW-BM is the A330 that has been grounded for 8 weeks due to a hugh crack in the hull of the Aircraft.

On a different topic anyone knew about a rumor of BMI leasing A340 from Virgin possible for HKG ?

**On the Grape Vine another big annoucement on Wednesday 04 Nov any ideas ?**

[bmibaby.com]

Can't imagine Virgin leasing us an A340 to launch a route that would compete with them! A340 been rumoured for the Far East ever since longhaul began a few years back - some people say it'll definitely happen - others including NT have said it has 2 too many engines.

[Porky Speedpig]

Does anyone know the story about the crack on the 330? 8 weeks for a repair sounds a long time. Bmi website now stating BOM flights cancelled for the next week.

[Doors to Automatic]

Hi guy new to the site.:)
Rumor at LHR is that the MME service will be dropped and the Slots used for the US flights that are due to start in March 07.
**On the Grape Vine another big annoucement on Wednesday 04 Nov any ideas ?**

Can't understand why they are so obsessed with US routes from LHR - obviously egos are far more important than businsss sense.

The amazing thing is that a company run by such a bunch of muppets is still in business! :ugh:

[baps]

LHRKLBD,

Unlikely that BD will do HKG as fellow Star Alliance airline Air NZ about to start the route in Oct.

[LHRKLBD]

They starting as a code-share with new Star Alliance carriers, Air China and Shiaghi Airlines As a feeder from LHR.:=

[Northern Hero]

LHRKLBD

See my post re the MME route on Durham Airport - 3

Rgds NH

[True Blue]

See from the Caa August stats that BD had another large decrease in pax on this route in August, down to just 55k. In fact, pax to Lgw were just 3k less. We could see Lgw become the main route from Belfast very soon, especially if Easy increase frequency to Lgw. It's not many years ago since the Belfast - Lhr route carried well in excess of 100k p m.

True Blue

[brian_dromey]

True Blue

There has been noise about EI ging into competition with BD on this route, and it could make a lot of sense. Theres c. 45k pax per year to be mopped up, and dont forget that even after EI leaves oneworld it will still have very strong links with BA, and would most likely code-share on the route, much like it does on ORK, DUB and SNN routes at the moment.

EI would be a tough compeditor for BD on the route, EI are one of the few companies who seem to be able to hold FR at bay.

[Count von Altibar]

That theory about EI on Heathrow-Belfast has been around for years and never even got close to happening. EI won't enter that market to compete with bmi and Easy when they've got enough going on at home with a potential takeover by the Ryans etc.

[True Blue]

Well, Bfs itself was talking about the possibility of EI doing the Bfs - Lhr route within the last few days. The article was in the business section of the Belfast Telegraph. Follow the link and read it for yourself.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/business/story.jsp?story=708574

True Blue

[Count von Altibar]

Yes, but the same paper said Emirates was looking into BFS from DXB a couple of years or so ago. Airlines look at routes all the time but very few ever start and EI have always failed to make BFS or LDY pay. It's a shame as there used to be a good way for staff to NYC via Shannon.

[eastern wiseguy]

It's a shame as there used to be a good way for staff to NYC via Shannon

yep the aircraft never seemed to have more than 100 on board.......little wonder they couldn't make it pay.Continental however seem to have worked it out.(not having to stop in Limerick tends to help as well:p )

[LHRKLBD]

Although it seems out there, i would appear that when EI leave Oneworld next April that BA is gonna start a code share up with BD on DUB and BHD routes.

Don't know if this is true just something i've heard around the airport.

[BHDflyer]

To me Aer Lingus would be the better option to Heathrow as passengers could make connections with BA flights, but they have to be able to sort the whole Ryanair thing out first. If Heathrow has extremely low slots left, they will not want Ryanair in let me assure you! Ryanair would want to expand in Heathrow, but would never be able to. And anyway I don't think many people would fly out of Heathrow with Ryanair, they fly to about every european destination there is out of Stansted and exactly the same routes out of Luton. Infact if Ryanair got into Heathrow, there would be civil war with BA winning. Do you really think BA are going to give up their long haul slots to a bunch of cheapies? I don't think so!

Back to Belfast, more people would happily choose the connections with BA than the Star Alliance. If bmi continue to loose money on BHD they should pull off the route altogether and that would give way for Aer Lingus to step in from BFS, I mean why try to suffer competition if they can't manage on their own? With so many new direct routes from Aldergrove continuing to grow, the big thing now unfortunately is that people will avoid Heathrow at all costs, and that does play a very big part in the current significant passenger drop. Back years ago when BA and BD both flew to Heathrow, passengers did fly because there was no direct scheduled flights from Aldergrove apart from AMS. Anyway I'm sure something could be worked out to keep LHR flights from Belfast.

[eastern wiseguy]

Ryanair would want to expand in Heathrow



rubbish.......based on a 25 minute turn round it would not happen....get the slots ..sell the slots..end of.

[LHRKLBD]

:uhoh: Well its finnally happened due to the sick A330 LHR/BOM has now be suspended indefenatly.

Any thought what they should do with the slot whene they actually do get G-WWBM back after December ?

[shuttlebus]

BHD Flyer,

BMI passenger numbers from BHD are failing for one main reason only..... cost!

I work for a consultant and we regularly have people travelling between Belfast & London for business meetings (Both London-Belfast-London & Belfast-London-Belfast).

It is well known by both ourselves AND the company that books our travel that BMI is the expensive option. We simply no longer consider BMI when booking flights. Easy etc will always be cheaper, no matter how far away the actual date of travel is from booking time.

In the business sector, where profit is important, there is simply no excuse for wasting money on a more expensive produt that is essentially the same.

It is unfortunate for BMI that the recent re-structuring has also left the customer somewhat confused as to what exactly his/her money is buying. The low cost /no frills airlines leave no doubt and continue to do it cheaper. Like all succesful business ventures, BMI needs to indentify which market it is chasing and then provide and market its product accordingly. This is not being harsh or unfair to BMI, this is simply how business works.

Regards,

Shuttlebus

[True Blue]

Shuttlebus

Agree with your comments completely. The fares and charges on this route are a joke. I have frequently flown to London on Easy for less ( total fare) than the BD charges excluding the fare. The additional charges ex Bhd are around £50. What really amuses me is that when they moved from Bfs to Bhd, one of the main reasons that they gave was that the charges at Bhd would be lower and the pax would see the benefit. Have you seen the benefit? What a joke. Also, now that they have a monopoly on this route, they are behaving like one. High fares and poor service, or at least that is my experience. I for one have little sympathy for their problems on this route with falling pax nos. I hope somebody else has the chance to start Bfs - Lhr. They will get my business.

True Blue

[Yarpy]

Think I heard this correctly:

Richard Branson saying on Radion 4, in passing, that he is trying to buy British Midland. (1735A 21 Oct)

Anyone know more?

[Human Factor]

He probably wants the LHR slots for VS or SQ. Can't see him trying to compete much in shorthaul in the UK.

[Leezyjet]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/bottomline/bottomline.shtml
Here is the link to the radio interview.
Sounds like it just slipped out.
(it's in the first few minutes if you don't want to listen to it all).
:ok:

[Dr. Spin]

For a deal to be done there needs to be a buyer and a seller! Unfortunately Sir Michael neither wants nor needs to sell. He has too much planned for the future and I doubt that Sir Richard could put forward an offer that would tempt him anyway; unless anyone knows differently?;)

[Codman]

You must have a hotline direct to Sir Mike there Dr Spin, unless you're on the board how can you possibly know what your management are planning?

[ScotPilot]

Dicky is a one man publicity machine. I believe less of what he says than what Sir M says and that is saying something.

[niknak]

Although the "bearded one" is undoubtedly a very rich man, he no longer owns the majority shareholding in the vast majority of "Virgin" companies, he earns royalties from having his name and Virgin associated with the product.

I doubt he has sufficiant funds to make a straight cash offer for BMI and would have to do it through a financial institution in the City, which would cost him a substantial sum.

However, if he did come up with a decent offer, it would be the board of BMI Sir Michael would have to worry about, not Richard Branson.

[Yarpy]

Purely on the basis that the owners might now be at retirement age what is the future of British Midland?

I would doubt that Sir Michael wants to hand over his company to Sir Richard let alone anyone else. However, he's got to pack up some time so what are the likely alternatives? Presumably he would be loath to wind the company up and retire. He must want to exit the industry in a dominant position. How about the other owners? Do they not have families with inheritiances to consider?

Alongside the Walker family and Branson he's a great survivor but what is his exit strategy?

[GBALU53]

With this story now out in the open, this week one would expect some more in dept statment being made.

[Spartacan]

Well I, for one, would like to know what any suitor plans to do about the £69 million pound deficit in the pension fund.

Is anyone thinking of contracting the management of the fund to a private company?

I would like to know!

[PAXboy]

If I recall correctly, Branson has wanted to merge and/or buy BMI for about 15 years. Sir Mike (it has been regularly reported) has never wanted this and only discussed matters to be polite. He continues (it has been regularly reported) to desire to be the second force in the UK airline world, for both short and long haul. He shows every sign of wanting to die 'in harness' and there are doubtless notes for succession in a safe.

Sir Mike has done very well over the years to establish BM and has been most unfortuante to have been fighting the establishment and regulatory groups most of the way. Whilst pax like myself continue to wonder just why the hell BD and VS have not done a deal loooooong ago, he owns the shares and is entitled to play his own game.

I venture to suggest that the opportunity to make a deal will soon be past, mainly because FR will have pulled the rug out from under the domestic biz and the international biz is too small. The consolidation of the Euro airline world is already behind natural commercial sense and, as many have said before (myself included) if Sir Mike continues to wait for the right deal, he will be left with no deal at all.

My expectation is that this opportunity will also be allowed to fail and BD will slip another notch lower. Very sad.

[AltFlaps]

I dread to think what would happen to baby if a BD/VS merger (or takeover) were to happen ...

I suspect that the unfortuneate love child might be put up for adoption - and even worse, could very well be sent to boarding school to be 'taught' losts of lessons by that nasty headmaster who lives by the river Liffy ... ;)

[flying brain]

I would aim to purchase the 50% -1 share not owned by Sir Michael first.

[goldeneye]

I would aim to purchase the 50% -1 share not owned by Sir Michael first.

That may well be the way SRB may go, i seen to recall that SK & LH mentioned getting rid of the share holding in not to distant pass. I can see the conbined force of VS and BD working, they are a very good fit, and dont really have any competing routes, exept BOM from LHR. If this was to happen, do you think it would mean the combined airline being in STAR or out altogether and what would happen with the SQ shareholding, would it go up or down % wise.

[Rick Binson]

......I can see the conbined force of VS and BD working, they are a very good fit, and dont really have any competing routes, exept BOM from LHR......

I'm not so sure they're a very good "fit" at all. SRB has plans at LHR with great expansion of his long haul network. The only thing he doesn't have is slots. bmi to SRB is purely about slots. I doubt the MME's and the BRU, CDG etc etc feature greatly in his plans. In fact I'd hazard a guess that if SMB were to sell it would be the LHR operation that goes.

In the radio feature he states there is a case for shorthaul being restricted as there are more environmentally friendly ways to travel.

However I seem to remember 5 years ago there was a great flurry of activity between bmi and VS that came to nothing.

[the former gk]

Bmi at Bhd was always going to be a non starter thats why SMDB tried in vain to make the contract null and void when BA announced their withdrawal from Belfast to Heathrow ,He sacked the chief operating officer Mr Hogan and all his aussie chums.I know cause I worked there at at time.The reason for the lower pax figures is also down to direct routes from BFS to the likes of Sxf,Gva,Bcn,Prg,Cdg,Nce(coming back for summer I can assure you)Ams,Fao and now Kac,Waw etc,not to mention Ewr,Sfb,Yyz and Tfs.Also BFS in talks with PORTUGALIA for LISBON/OPORTO to serve the portugese community in Northern Ireland.

[MarkD]

SK and LH can't find sellers because everyone knows how MB has held them hostage over the years with his majority. At least LH pilots would be okay with a quick retrain to A340, presumably baby would be shoehorned in VEX but with the delay until A380 would there be room for the 319 pilots?

[True Blue]

Bmi at Bhd was always going to be a non starter thats why SMDB tried in vain to make the contract null and void when BA announced their withdrawal from Belfast to Heathrow ,He sacked the chief operating officer Mr Hogan and all his aussie chums.I know cause I worked there at at time.The reason for the lower pax figures is also down to direct routes from BFS to the likes of Sxf,Gva,Bcn,Prg,Cdg,Nce(coming back for summer I can assure you)Ams,Fao and now Kac,Waw etc,not to mention Ewr,Sfb,Yyz and Tfs.Also BFS in talks with PORTUGALIA for LISBON/OPORTO to serve the portugese community in Northern Ireland.

Interesting view, one that I can see the sense in. So what do you think the future holds for BD at Bhd?

True Blue

[shuttlebus]

True Blue,

Don't know, but I for one (and the company I work for) can't justify the extra expense.

former gk,

Valid point. It used to be that to go anywhere, you first needed to fly to LHR, using either BA or BMI. Now of course, lots of cheap, direct flights and no longer any need to shuttle to LHR.

Interestingly enough, on a thread many moons ago, I managed to botttom out some info on the whole BA pull-out thing. Seems that for onward pax, BA only apportioned a percentage of the total fare (as a percentage of BFS-LHR miles versus total miles) to the BFS-LHR sectors. This ultimately reduced the "fee-earning" potential of the route. It is also fair to note however, that the mid-week flights could be quite empty (even the 19:00 from LHR) and I remeber being one of just a handful travelling some evenings - but BMI were packing them in..... (as the fares were cheaper then).

Even if BMI pull out of Belfast - LHR, I can't see BA coing back as they have lost a lot of face with the BA Connect fiasco..... maybe the future is bright.... but not to LHR.

Regards,

Shuttlebus

[old-timer]

There's a nice 747 size hangar completely underused at STN - how about that one too - be a great bosst for STN to have the big V there.....:)

[Lite]

If Virgin, either solely as the Virgin Group or more likely with a partner company, decided to put in a bid for bmi, does anybody know how much the airline is worth? Would Virgin only be looking at the slots for LHR, or does anyone think that they'd want to keep the trunk routes where pax & crew connect from as well as some other key cities to go up against British Airways? Could Virgin keep a presence in the regions or is bmibaby likely to go, strange what it would have to be called if they had to get rid of "bmi" connotations?

Essentially, from a human resources point of view this merger has the makings of a disaster, with very different corporate cultures as well as a lot of potential job losses. However, given bmi want to expand into the already crowded longhaul market and have made a complete dog's dinner out of their shorthaul services, maybe it'll take some Virgins to turn it back around.

[Spartacan]

>>does anybody know how much the airline is worth?<<

It's worth whatever anyone is prepared to pay for it - minus the £69 million pension fund deficit.

[PAXboy]

... does anybody know how much the airline is worth?
As MarkD says: Sir has kept everyone at bay. From the outside, he does not appear to allow any changes or developments and, in my personal, view has been undermining the company for years. Of course, his view is that he is building something strong and lasting but I think that he holds to a 1970s view of the airline world.

BD has not made it to the big time and needs to either join a small company and help it jump up, or join a big company and make it bigger. I expect that he will do neither and, consequently, BD will fall through the middle. In the European airline market, the company could fit in well with others - but his determination to be boss of a global airline means that he will fail. If not in his lifetime, then within minutes of his death.

It is very sad but the world has many examples of people whos start things and then fail to hand them over to people who can run them day-to-day.

[Mod Kit]

There are a great deal of cynical views here and yes, everyone has a right to air their views. But don't forget that British Midland/bmi have been around for many years and weathered many storms in the aviation industry. Admittedly they have lost their way recently and to many bmi is not the same company we all knew even 10 years ago, but that is a very small period of time, I feel, for bmi. Sir MB is a very shrewd businessman and will not let his 'ship' sink. Others at a senior level may fall before bmi ever does.

The Virgin-bmi merger/takeover/buyout has been rumoured for years... come what may there probably are as many benefits as disadvantages if it were to happen. Lets just wait and see before passing judgement...:ok:

[Count von Altibar]

Come on Mister Bishop, sell it to Dickie please!

[WHBM]

However, given bmi want to expand into the already crowded longhaul market and have made a complete dog's dinner out of their shorthaul services.....
If they've made a Dog's Dinner out of shorthaul then they have made an Elephant's Dinner out of longhaul.

[Flightrider]

It looks like the Mumbai withdrawal is now a permanent matter than temporary, despite promises that the A330 may be back by December. Services for the whole winter have been taken out and they are covering the Heathrow slots by operating an extra daily flight to TeesSide and juggling some other services around to cover it.

Rather looks as though it leaves them with a spare A330 when 'BM gets back flying again.

[Hudson Bay]

Virgin could never afford to buy bmi. The LHR slots are worth a fortune. I don't know how many slots bmi have but my guess its into the hundreds. It might be that Virgin and bmi merge but one things for sure, Sir dickie doesn't have that much spare cash.

[Jamesair]

I seem to remember reading that Lufthansa had a purchase option on Mr. Bishops' shares in BMI, until that right is either exercised or given up that would surely rule out any other operator making a move on BMI

[Bacon Slicer]

I understand that due to an AOG A330 and a ongoing dispute with Airbus the BMI LHR-MUMBAI service is suspended.

Trying to get an answer out of the BMI call centre regarding when it will start again is like getting blood out of a stone! Can anybody out in pprune world give me the inside story as to when the service will run again???

At the moment the service is being done by booking pax onto VS - is this correct?:ugh:

[Buster the Bear]

I understand that following routine maintenance, a crack was found relating to the main gear, the aircraft will remain out of service until it is fixed.

A quick search of the Internet yielded:

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11250-2419673,00.html

[Cyrano]

Extracts from the press release on the bmi website, and my suggested :cool: translation:

"This uncertainty is also impacting upon our ability confidently to sell seats from Heathrow to Mumbai. The marketplace is intensely competitive and we have serious concerns about a prolonged period of over three month’s absence. A sustained absence will place us at a considerable disadvantage against the competition that we face on services to Mumbai when we are able to recommence operations." ("We don't know when the aircraft will be back. We're arguing with Airbus about this and claiming for consequential damages, so our rhetoric has to demonstrate that we're suffering a major loss, but whenever we do get the plane back, we'd virtually have to relaunch completely in the Mumbai market, and we're not sure it's worth our while.")

“This is only a temporary setback to our long haul route network growth and we remain committed to the development of that part of our business. That is why we have made no reductions in operating crew levels including the 66 cabin staff positions involved in the Mumbai operation. Any job losses will be minimal and all confined to India based positions.” ("We know we will get the plane back sooner or later and we can find other things to do with it. The 66 cabin staff will be needed whether the plane's going to Mumbai or somewhere else. We're letting go of some or all of our people in India, which may suggest that we're preparing to exit the Indian market. There's more and more competition in the UK-India market, it's not working out as well as we'd like, and if we can extricate ourselves from that market and get Airbus to eat some of the blame and the costs, so much the better.")

Note that the last sentence is complete speculation on my part. But clearly LHR-BOM has been the least well-performing and/or least-strategic of the daily/near-daily BD long-haul routes - why else would it be the one they canned when they lost an aircraft?

C.

[EGCC4284]

Pictures here

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245986

[alangirvan]

Starting London-Mumbai must have seemed like a good idea at the time, but the route is now saturated. BA have gone up to twice daily, VS are daily, Jet Airways are twice daily and Air India is still there. Plus all the airlines who can give connections at Gulf airports.

Surely, if BMI was travelling really well on the service, they could borrow a plane from a friend - perhaps a chance to see if A340s would fit into their network?

[agent x]

alangirvan

yeh...it's that simple.....:ugh:

[WHBM]

We're arguing with Airbus about this and claiming for consequential damages, so our rhetoric has to demonstrate that we're suffering a major loss
Difficult to pin this one on the manufacturer as :

1) The aircraft is 5 years old and thus out of warranty.
2) Isn't that crack just where you would expect to check carefully after a heavy landing.
3) Apparently the relevant spare parts are available but some custom machining is required which is the main cause of the extended AOG.

[Flightrider]

I have to say that I've never known an AOG go on for so long. Structural damage caused by a landing incident, yes - viz 757s at Funchal, Gib etc - but for an AOG, it is taking a huge length of time to get it fixed. I appreciate that it isn't your every-day AOG, but I've known whole undercarriage legs get replaced and even a heavily corroded wing spar repaired quicker than this.

[Halfwayback]

Flightrider
Have a look at the pics on the thread posted by EGCC on the previous page.

The crack is in the block that is, I am told, attached to the main spar by deep frozen bolts hammered home to an interference fit before the nuts are screwed down. It is then covered by the fuel tanks.

It is the first time Airbus have come across this and the new parts have to be manufactured. It is rumoured that VS have an A340 with a similar problem although I would have expected to have that rumoured either quashed or confirmed here.

HWB

[MarkD]

jamesair - I think the problem with the option was its substantial premium to BD's asset value once the option became available.

[Capt Dexter Fruitcake]

http://www.just4airlines.com/j4_dox/email/set.html?./detail.mv?story_id=27166
So, what's wrong with the jet?

[smile high]

have a look page five on rumours and news thread dated 29 sept 'bmi 330' and all will be explained!!

[hobie]

It's all here on PPRuNe ......

It's a nasty problem for sure ....

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245986

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/jedigtr/MVC_003F.jpg

[queenvic]

any ideas what routes bmi will fly with the sick 330 once its repaired?

talk of starting istanbul, cairo, st petersburg and moscow from manchester.

anyone heard anything else?

[DTVAirport]

Forgive my ignorance, but which part of the above image is the damaged bit?

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

If you look centre of picture then second from right peice coming down you can see the crack about halfway down going horizontally
Excuse the very exact terminology!

G-I-B

[LHRKLBD]

any ideas what routes bmi will fly with the sick 330 once its repaired?

talk of starting istanbul, cairo, st petersburg and moscow from manchester.

anyone heard anything else?

I've heard all if these also using a A321 for Istanbul apprently. Would make since to set up shop there as this is where the a/c seem to go for maintence (TLV).

The A330 is gonna to be leased out for some unknown reason ! :ugh:

[smudgethecat]

I have to say that I've never known an AOG go on for so long. Structural damage caused by a landing incident, yes - viz 757s at Funchal, Gib etc - but for an AOG, it is taking a huge length of time to get it fixed. I appreciate that it isn't your every-day AOG, but I've known whole undercarriage legs get replaced and even a heavily corroded wing spar repaired quicker than this. its taking a huge length of time to get repaired due to the fact its a huge repair, you have clearly, not a clue of whats entailed in a job of this kind ,replacing a l/g leg is nothing compared to this, and indeed the whole leg is out to give access, having seen myself the amount of work entailed im very impressed with the speed in which the airbus repair team are actually progressing what is a very big structural repair.

[queenvic]

I've heard all if these also using a A321 for Istanbul apprently. Would make since to set up shop there as this is where the a/c seem to go for maintence (TLV).

The A330 is gonna to be leased out for some unknown reason ! :ugh:

if thats the case I wonder if they will use the crew + f/d?

[LHRKLBD]

Anyone heard of any news about bmi get boeing 777's ?

[Tisme]

Dream on is all I can say.

[flyingfrog]

I've heard all if these also using a A321 for Istanbul apprently. Would make since to set up shop there as this is where the a/c seem to go for maintence (TLV).

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't TLV in Israel and Instanbul (Turkey)?

[EI-BUD]

Well, Bfs itself was talking about the possibility of EI doing the Bfs - Lhr route within the last few days. The article was in the business section of the Belfast Telegraph. Follow the link and read it for yourself.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/business/story.jsp?story=708574

True Blue
I read with interest that the possibility of Aer Lingus flying BFS LHR has been considered. I would be delighted to see it, but I would ask where would they get the slots? EI are to put an extra service on Cork LHR next summer so thats one extra slot. Unless they are getting a few new ones. I understand they are rare as hens teeth nowadays!

I actually tried to find the info in the link above but couldnt seem to find it . Must try again. This is my first day as a member! Hello everyone!

[EI-BUD]

Has anyone ever considered that Easyjet is most likely buyer the bmi operation?

This would give Easyjet access to LHR, also new bases at MAN CWL BHX and bigger opertion at EMA?
The boeings and airbus could be adsorbed easily and the takeover could be like what EASYJET did with go. This could put them in front of Ryanair in terms of size and scope???

If it happened Easyjet would probably scrap long haul??? And the regional operation, but might keep some of the better regional routes and upgrade viable ones to 319 or boeing equipment.
My reason for believing this is for a few reasons. Bmibaby and EZY have been pretty good at keeping out of each others way. Bmibaby pulled Gatwick to Cork and Prague as EZY announced service a few yrs ago. At the same time EZY dropped EMA to GLA & EDI.. A little bit of cooperation going on there.

It would appear from the outside that inside the BMI group very little progress is being made in terms of expansion. I would have expected bmibaby to be the vehicle for expansion in the group since LHR restricts bmi from growing due to slot restrictions. Still no significant aircraft orders or European bases for Bmibaby and no headline expansion plans, like the other LCCs do???
What do the rest of the PPrune members think of this?

[OltonPete]

EI-BUD

I for one agree that Baby would fit nicely into Easy in respect of bases
and of course it might also solve any crewing problems. They probably would not particularly want the 733's back but that is a minor matter.

Also with the news of the last few weeks (BACON/Flybe) it does mean that BHX and MAN are wide open for an airline with such a strong brand.

Most on this forum have said that EASY are not interested in BHX or
MAN (certainly Liverpool has a big base) but if the price is right surely
they would have to listen?

For us in the Midlands I think in the long-term Flybe/BACON and
Baby to Easyjet would be a win win situation.

Pete

[richardnei]

I see BMI Baby are joining Flybe/Ryanair/Manx2 and starting to charge for hold baggage. £2.50 if booked on-line and £5.00 if presented at check-in.

Brgds

Richard



bmibaby baggage policy change
bmibaby remains committed to offering a quality and relevant service to passengers and we are constantly talking to customers to understand exactly what they require. Extensive research has highlighted that passengers want a continuation of low cost fares, to only pay for the services that they use and an increase in hand baggage. As a result bmibaby has updated its baggage policy as follows:

bmibaby is increasing the weight allowance of hand baggage from 7kgs to 10kgs. One small item of hand baggage per person may be carried into the aircraft cabin, weighing no more than 10kg and with dimensions of less than 55cm x 40cm x 20cm.

As part of the updated baggage policy new fees will now apply to each item of checked in hold luggage. This policy is part of bmibaby’s long term commitment to keeping fares low therefore fares will continue to start from just £13.99 one way including taxes and charges. Passengers will only pay for the services that they require.

For each item of hold baggage booked in advance of travel on www.bmibaby.com, a £2.50 charge per item of baggage will apply per one way flight. If booking via the call centre or arriving at the airport without pre booking online a £5.00 charge per item will apply per one way flight. The maximum checked baggage allowance for each passenger travelling remains at 20kg per person. Any passenger checking in baggage exceeding their 20kg checked baggage allowance (per person) will be charged an excess baggage fee at a rate of £5 per kilo (or local currency equivalent). A single piece of baggage must not exceed 32kg in weight.

Passengers may not use the unused checked baggage allowance of other passengers. No sharing of the checked baggage allowance is permitted, even within a party travelling on the same Confirmation Number.

bmibaby’s updated baggage policy will come into effect from 29th November 2006. Any booking made prior to 29th November 2006 will not have to pay the baggage charge. However if a passenger changes their booking after this date the new baggage policy will apply as the terms and conditions will have changed.

back to press releases

[Smile!!!]

Well seems fairly resonable too me on a LOCO, but it does seem to me they have been led by the hand i.e They are never market leaders or the first to... . This I think will ultimiley be ww downfall, with so many rumours of them being bought (would SMB allow that?) with EZY often being cited as the favouroute. Or could it even be merged back into mainline, with new A319, as their service levels are really quite similar. They arent really the UKs number 2, Jet 2 has that title now with more planes and routes.
They are really a falling airline IMHO. :ok:

[FlyZB]

Talk about 1 step forward, 2 steps back! Thought bmibaby were finally getting somewhere with their focus on BHX expansion and now they do this. I really think they will live to rue this decision. I for one wont be travelling with them again because of this. Ok, so they've followed the lead of others. But let's get one thing straight, the likes of FR and BE can get away with it more because a good deal of their pax are business people who will only be travelling with hand luggage. Bmibaby however has a significant number of flights to AGP, ALC, PMI, FAO, MJV and the like and a lot of people will use them for their summer holidays. I don't see families going away for two weeks taking hand luggage only. These are the people that are going to get stung when checking in 4 or 5 bags each time they travel. I can't see them wanting to fly baby if they have to pay upwards of 20 quid just to checkin their suitcases. I use WW a fair bit on the MAN - AGP route but i'll be looking to ZB and LS as alternatives from now on. I can see others doing the same.

[lexxity]

If you are flying WW and usually take excess then it is actually a good deal, instead of paying £5 per kilo you can pay £2.50 prior to check in per bag and check in upto 5 pieces at 20kgs per bag.

[Smile!!!]

Lexxity, when travveling with ww you are still only allowed 20kgs of luggage. (same as before) and they will still charge you £5 extra per kg. So worse deal, I think so! Plus I also have to agree with FLYZB, most of their flights are lesuire, and so passenger will and I assure you do expect that the luggage costs are in with the ticket. They are also not the cheapest, anyway here from CWL they are actually a damn sight more expensive that TOM/FCA and previously XL. They cant really expect the majority of passenfers to take to this, another terrible desicion by SMB. (In my opinion the worlds worst man to run an airline, GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: )

Rant is now over, I do actually like WW service and that is why I fly with them regulary but I may reconsider especially if CWL gets flybe.:ok:

Smile!!!

[brian_dromey]

Rant is now over, I do actually like WW service and that is why I fly with them regulary but I may reconsider especially if CWL gets flybe.:ok: Smile!!!

So you actually like flying knackered 737 classics? Complete with broken seats and tatty interiors? None of the interiors match, the crews are generally surley, baggage takes ages and the BOB service is extorsionate, even by LCC standards. Not to mention the frankly awful uniforms, and bazzare branding. This is an airline that I fly because I have to, and it is a shame because mainline BMI is a pleasure.

If I had my way the baby would be given a new set of toys, babygrows and sent to school. (new fleet, uniforms and crew training). Or maybe SMB should put his 'baby' and its parent up for adoption...

Funny thing is...mainline bmi fares are sometines cheaper than baby's quoted fares! £25 LBA-LHR-LBA where as the baby starts at £13.99 one way, and Ive never found one of these.

Im sorry its time to say "bye-bye baby" and make it earn its keep. Either re-integrate baby into bmi or cut off its trust fund entirely.

[lexxity]

Smile it would appear my internal memo was missing a page, ie the one about still charging for excess. Good eh?:O

The passengers I spoke to today didn't seem to care too much about paying to check bags in, they seemed to think it quite normal. :confused: Not that I'm defending it. I just don't see it having such a big effect on loads as others do. Next summer will tell.

[Little Blue]

So, SMILE...
Most of babys flights are leisure are they?
CWL-GLA/EDI/BFS/AMS at least twice a day, weekly(apart from AMS)
EMA-GLA/EDI/BFS/AMS/CDG..up to 3 times a day
BHX-EDI/BFS/ABZ...ditto
MAN-BFS again up to 4 times daily...
If you're going to have a go, at least get yr facts right.
I think you'll find that charging for baggage is going to be the norm
for most carriers pretty shortly.
Baby are not the 1st to do it,and won't certainly be the last, either.
And what has SMB ever done to you?
Right, back to the football !!!:)

[barrowboyblue!]

LB - at least get yr facts right.
Right, back to the football !!!:)

[BHDflyer]

baby, flybe and ryanair all do it, but why not easyjet?

I've always wondered why easyjet didn't introduce these charges.

Anyone care to give a reason?

[a1234]

What has happened to the 4th baby a/c? So far 3 have been allocated to BHX, but the 4th has mysteriously dissapeared. Any news on if that is going to CWL as was originally planned?

[bmibaby.com]

1) easyJet / bmibaby merger unlikely to happen. Why would easyJet want to take on our cost base, ageing 737s considering most of them are ex-EZY which they wanted to retire, bases at airports which are already close to EZY ones and deal with all the stresses of a merger when organic growth is easier?

2) bmibaby is already a profitable member of the group, so comments that we need to pull our weight are unfounded.

3) bmibaby is charging for hold luggage like more and more low-cost airlines to cover the cost of baggage handling, check in leases as well as the excess fuel needed for people carrying more luggage.

4) Whilst service standards may have slipped since the company was British Midland, the bmibaby brand has been successful, service is better than some rival low-cost airlines evident from the awards we continue to win and the uniforms introduced in 2005 were a huge improvement over the old ones.

5) bmibaby are currently sorting out their fleet plan for next summer. There is an aircraft arriving I believe in March which is currently unassigned to a base. Could be EMA, could be CWL.

[True Blue]

Baby carry more pax on Bfs - Bhx than Bfs - Man, yet offer more flights to Man than Bhx. Why is this? Surely there appears to be more of a case for higher frequency to Bhx?

I am disappointed that they have decided to follow the rest on baggage policy. There is a desparate need for one to have the courage to be different. But then this is the same in most industry, few leaders really have the courage of their convictions.

True blue

[Smile!!!]

Most of babys flights are leisure are they?

Yes and dont even mention AMS, I can assure you, here from CWL atleast bussiness/connections PAX use KLM and most lesuire PAX (not all due to bad timings) use WW, WW not always being cheaper than KLM. Look at there main routes AGP, PMI, ALC, FAO, etc are mostly lesuire PAX.

This 4th aircraft also, I know it was originally planned for CWL but in typical WW style they are owwing and arrring about it, does anyone know when an announcement is to be made?

So you actually like flying knackered 737 classics? Complete with broken seats and tatty interiors?

Well not really ofcourse, none of there seats do match and they have more shades than a paint factory, but I do like their service, there uniforms arent to bad. I actually enjoy the crew mind and think they are quite freindly.
his is an airline that I fly because I have to, and it is a shame because mainline BMI is a pleasure.

1) easyJet / bmibaby merger unlikely to happen. Why would easyJet want to take on our cost base, ageing 737s considering most of them are ex-EZY which they wanted to retire, bases at airports which are already close to EZY ones and deal with all the stresses of a merger when organic growth is easier?

Why are people so fixated on fleets when airlines merge, look how many A319 EZY has on order and none of their bases are shared except EMA but they live happily together and would give EZY the upper hand over RYR, although some are close like CWL/BRS etc. Organic growth, more like static growth with SMB, no continental European bases and the number of UK ones have gone down with the loss of DTV.:rolleyes:

[Exasperated]

Little Blue
EMA-GLA is actually 4x daily, with GLA-CWL going down to 1x daily for some strange reason...
Gaz
Afraid it drops to 3 x Daily from Summer 07, probably as a direct reult of starting GLA-BHX
Ex

[airmemphis]

The latest report states that Cairo has been put on the 'backburner' as the next destination. Quite unfortunate.

[fadec_primary_channel]

What report? :)

[WHBM]

Why are people so fixated on fleets when airlines merge
Because we know that standardisation of fleets leads to some very significant cost reductions of a combined operation. Sure you can maintain the status quo but then have much less ability to reduce overall costs for the newly merged business, which rapidly leads to "well what's the point then" comments about the merger from those of us at the beancounting end.

[bmibaby.com]

Obviously as an employee of the bmi group (with the tiny lot) the future of the group is of huge interest to me, and I agree that the way things are going are concerning, in so much as bmi haven't done a great deal to significantly expand into the longhaul market and have stepped down from a lot of shorthaul markets rather than try to put up some sort of fight. Positively, bmi regional has made it's mark in a lot of high yielding routes with the Embraers and bmibaby seems to do well in the markets we're in even if we don't offer the most exciting combination of routes.

Simply, bmi has been rumoured to be sold off to lots of different airlines in my period of working for the group. I've heard we'd become a 100% subsidiary of SAS, Lufthansa and Virgin Atlantic or been merged with BRAL, and guess what, 10 years later we're still a British independent airline. A merger with easyJet simply wouldn't work, no matter if people wish for their to be an EZY base at Manchester or Birmingham, EZY have perfectly functioning bases just up the road which they operate profitably from their own organic growth - not having to pick up an aging fleet, difficult staff contracts etc. They seem perfectly profitable as they are, without merging with us.

bmi has to react quickly now if they want to stay ahead of the game. The BA Connect / flybe deal is a perfect time to win back passengers to the group by investing in the bmibaby product. Before Open Skies comes into effect, it seems a good idea to expand our European and Middle Eastern network from LHR with a decent product. Whether those in Donington Hall manage to realise or execute this on the other hand remains to be seen.

[a1234]

Why are baby showing such reluctance to expand from cwl? Surely they should tap into the unserved key routes from cwl such as paris cdg, which has been left for months, and the 4th a/c should be used to serve this neglected 'base'.

[Mr A Tis]

...and a pretty lacklustre performance from Baby at MAN. Having burst on the scene, they've let Monarch & especially Jet2 put them in the shadows. Except for Bordeaux & Perpignan, their routes are pretty predictable serving destinations well served by everyone else. Their aircraft interiors look pretty shabby compared to others & the staff uniforms are anything but smart.
Tiny is certainly in need of an image boost & some more imaginitive route structure. Now they also have Thomsonfly challenging them on the bucket & spade routes-but TOM are complimenting their schedules with the likes of Salzburg, Lisbon & other euro destinations.
Wake up Tiny & do something new & exciting at MAN............anything !

[bmibaby.com]

The thing is, bmibaby manage to pull their own weight within the bmi group with our fleet of Boeing 737 classics, yes they might not be as new, comfortable or efficient as aircraft operated by some of our competitors in the low-cost market, but for the time being they're doing a pretty good job, with another few arriving in 2007. I think most people can deal with shabby interiors on a flight of two hours or less, though I agree that the leather seats on some of Jet2.com's aircraft look very nice considering they're about the same age as baby's. Concerning uniform, our current uniform is a huge improvement over the old one, and it's worth considering that if you're doing a job which involves 4 sectors and turnarounds in the 25 to 40 minute range, you want a uniform that is comfortable and functioning which is exactly what the present one does. I'd like to see more routes from MAN, CWL & EMA, and hopefully the recently announced BHX routes is an indicator that WW are thinking of more than just extra AGPs.

[Hudson Bay]

Thats what I was told from a very reliable source. We'll just have to wait now for the announcement. Remember guys you heard it here first.

[Count von Altibar]

I heard that a while back when they were analyzing it from a security standpoint. Any expansion is welcome but some of the routes we seem to be looking at don't look like much fun for the crews in terms of nightstop destinations or security.

[North Stand Tier3]

Memo from NT yesterday stating bmi group putting out tender in New Year for 20 a/c with 20 options.Unclear whether for baby,regional or both.E-jets anyone?Or are we bidding on something from AV Roe to fit in with the Classic fleet we have.

[bmibaby.com]

The memo doesn't specifically state which part of the bmi group is getting the aircraft, or indeed whether its shorthaul, mediumhaul or longhaul aircraft the airline is planning on ordering. The E-Jet is a wonderful idea for bmi, there are plenty of baby routes which would be well suited to the 108-seat EMB-190 or 118-seat EMB-195, these plans have some great economics and there seems to be a decent wait on the delivery line given some JetBlue and Swiss deferrals, compared to a lengthy wait for Boeing 737NGs. I'm not sure how well it went, but it's a decent rumour considering the EMB-190 demonstrator bmi management had at EMA over the summer.

[Smile!!!]

Bmibaby has a new website design, looking suspiciously similar to Easyjets:rolleyes: .

So as most babys its copying its more able elders, BE, EZY, etc. Come on bmibaby wheres the fourth aircraft going? What are you up to?

[LHRKLBD]

Memo from NT yesterday stating bmi group putting out tender in New Year for 20 a/c with 20 options.Unclear whether for baby,regional or both.E-jets anyone?Or are we bidding on something from AV Roe to fit in with the Classic fleet we have.

Baby / Regional, hey I knew where not the best but what about Mainline and come to think about it Long Haul too ?

[North Stand Tier3]

Heard rumours that 2 of next Classics may not be coming due lessors unhappy with maint being done in TLL and TLV-not European enough for them.Won't be the first time deliveries have been canx last minute.
Can't see more 330s comin due not enough routes for what we have at mo (unless there's a change of plan with Saudi flights) and memo points to no foreseeable change of Bermuda treaty next yr.
More 319s imminent in new year for mainline to replace 321s on handback.Team just gone to HAM to do pre-delivery inspections.

[airbourne]

Can someone please explain the thinking behind getting rid of the 321s especially for the the DUB-LHR route which I believe is their busiest and replacing them with 320/319s? Why reduce capacity on their most profitable route?

[6chimes]

The reason the a/c were not repainted is quite simple. BMI were under going the slow process of rebranding from british midland to bmi when the devastating events of 9/11 left the company nearly going under. Non of the aircraft we were flying and over a year old had been changed, it was planned to be done as and when the a/c went in for their major checks. Obviously the financial problems experienced ever since have left that process as not vital. All the other a/c that have the new colours were delivered just before or since then and the rest have gone.

And to answer why the 321's are being replaced; cut capacity increase cost especially now the LO CO operaters compete heavily on those routes from various airports in the South East and re focus the airline to mid haul destinations.

6

[DTVAirport]

That makes sense now. So all aircraft that are in the fleet that are currently in old/hybrid/old Star Alliance colours, will remain that way until whenever they're retired from service? Shame.

[DTVAirport]

Well, it's now the new year, and no aircraft order, I know I should probably give them time but I'm too excited.

[Count von Altibar]

Belfast City is their most profitable route and I understand that Dublin is performing well at the moment. I believe that the yield is what they're after at board level hence reducing capacity and lowering overall costs but taking more dosh per seat. I think Dublin will still have plenty of A321 capacity on it though, especially with the high summer demand.

Rgs, The Count

[ryan2000]

The days of high yields on short haul routes are over and airlines that don't adjust to that fact are going nowhere. Any news on BMI's Autumn discussions with the Cork Airport Authority?

[aeulad]

It would be great news if they announced Dammam!

What would be the likely aircraft? They are quoted as saying the route would suit a narrowbodied aircraft. Would they lease another 75 like they did for the MAN-IAD flights or would they use the 330?

Regards

Mike

[EI-BUD]

I was reading your post saying that bmis most profitable route is Belfast City LHR

Thats interesting, and good news if true. But can I ask you where did you get that information from? It seems unusual for bmi to give this information? I realise that the BHDLHR is one of the busier in terms of aircraft movements but I am very interested to know where you got this news?

[DTVAirport]

Airbus is in London today to unveil a big aircraft order, could this be bmi's order?

[Count von Altibar]

Almost impossible as the airline is in dire straits so why order more aircraft? Also, any order will not be 'big' and will most likely go to the bmi regional operation.

[Cyrano]

Airbus is in London today to unveil a big aircraft order, could this be bmi's order?

The short answer: no. The Airbus orders announced today were for AirAsia, for Grupo Marsans (Aerolineas Argentinas etc.) and for SALE (a lessor),

[DTVAirport]

Almost impossible as the airline is in dire straits so why order more aircraft? Also, any order will not be 'big' and will most likely go to the bmi regional operation.
A) How is the airline in dire straits?
B) They said just before Christmas that they are ordering aircraft, 20 firm orders and 20 options, in some form of internal documentation which several people on this thread have seen.

[The Moo]

Q. So whats the fixed 330 up to ?
Q How's the DME going ?
Q What are 20 new a/c up to when the 321's that have been in old colours for 6year are going ?

Any ideas

[transitionlevel]

Rumours are everywhere of a BMI LHR - JER service starting soon.

will be 3 x daily.

Anyone else know of this?

[bmibaby.com]

bmi are not in any dire trouble at the moment as has been suggested in this forum, and has been suggested for some time.

The facts as far as I can see them is;

YES Lufthansa & SAS are seriously considering selling their shares in the company as soon as possible, and do not want to continue the ECA when it is scheduled to end.

YES the Mumbai fiasco was an expensive mistake which has done nothing to improve bmi's longhaul reputation.

YES bmi regional and bmibaby have both been run out of markets by lower cost competitors rather than trying to fight their ground.

YES there is an order, or at least a letter of intent, scheduled over the next few months, with most aircraft likely to be for bmibaby or bmi regional.

[Count von Altibar]

I'm only going by what the CX says when it's time for pay negotiations! As far as the 20 aircraft are concerned, the company hasn't the foggiest as to which part of the group they'd be aimed at and it's only an approval to put out to tender. The whole process could take years before actual deliveries happen. Believe me, the airline is in a real muddle about what direction it's going in...

[EI-BUD]

I would be surprised if any significant aircraft orders are placed by bmi.

Looking at the Caa website on passenger stats for 2006 and the provisional information now available on the website it would suggest that the airline is certainly not having the best of times.

The routes that they operate on there own, eg Inverness, Leeds, Belfast City , Durham tees to LHR are showing major decline month on month.

Furthermore, Glasgow, Manchester, Edinburgh flights to LHR in competition with BA are very significantly down on the same time last year for the last year, most likely the decline is for both BA and Bmi, but I reckon bmi are hurting the most.Hard to say, nevertheless, I still think bmi are having a very rough few months.

I just wonder how long can this situation be sustained.

[GBALU53]

Transitionlevel

Two stories going around at the moment, one is there will be an annocement in the local papers within the next week , an the other is BMI have two engineers in Jersey and they will know buy the middle of February what the outcome is going to be.

So a bit of a differance in timmimgs who will know first the press or the staff?

If they are going to start the service you would expect the service to be up and running for the summer which is normally when the clocks change.

If the service is three daily could this meen a night stopper?

The only whay it will work for the businness people would be a night stop with a 0700 departure and a late an evening arrival to get the London businness traffic and most of this traffic would be taken away from the Gatwick route.

[frontcheck]

EI-BUD
One of the reasons for bmi,s load factors appearing to be down on last year is yield. They would rather have one customer pay £150.00 for the seat than 150 paying £1.00 for the privelage. :hmm:

[brian_dromey]

frontcheck

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: That certainly is NOT the case as of now. Take a look at LBA-LHR. Most flights, most days have loads of availability of £0.00+tax (comes to about £25 one way). Thats for flights departing towards the end of the month and onwards.

The last time I flew this route (BD 419 on a FRI) it was pretty empty, >70 pax on board a 319. Mostly business passengers, however, so likely to be higher yielding. Perhaps bmi is working hard on yield and trying to push load factors up at the same time. I hope they succeed, because the LBA based crews are pleasent, effecient and profeccional. In my opinion bmi is a class act. Shame about the management tho.....

On another note, why are so many ERJ always hanging around @ Leeds? They regularly seem to be closed up, with little activity. Whats the utilisation on these machines like? Where are they used to?

Finally I think that if bmi were to order 20 aircraft, we could perhaps see a mix of E170s and E190/195's and a merger of baby into mainline and/or regional. I think that bmi could do what SAS has done with snowflake and use baby as a marketing brand throughout the combined bmi and bmibaby networks. Im not bashing baby here, but I doubt their costs are all that low, compared to others in the market. The seperation between BD and WW seem slim at best? They use co-branded desks at MAN, and Ive also seen "flybmi" on the catering equipment on a WW 737!

Now that BD itself offers a buy-on-board service, whats the point of WW?

[brian_dromey]

EI-BUD
One of the reasons for bmi,s load factors appearing to be down on last year is yield. They would rather have one customer pay £150.00 for the seat than 150 paying £1.00 for the privelage. :hmm:


:confused: That certainly is NOT the case as of now. Take a look at LBA-LHR. Most flights, most days have loads of availability of £0.00+tax (comes to about £25 one way). Thats for flights departing towards the end of the month and onwards. bmi managers must have had yet another change of heart!

The last time I flew this route (BD 419 on a FRI) it was pretty empty, >70 pax on board a 319. Mostly business passengers, however, so likely to be higher yielding. Perhaps bmi is working hard on yield and trying to push load factors up at the same time. I hope they succeed, because the LBA based crews are pleasent, effecient and professional. In my opinion bmi is a class act in the air and on the ground. Shame about the management though.....

On another note, why are so many ERJ always hanging around @ Leeds? They regularly seem to be closed up, with little activity. Whats the utilisation on these machines like? Where are they used to?

Finally I think that if bmi were to order 20 aircraft, we could perhaps see a mix of E170s and E190/195's and a merger of baby into mainline and/or regional. I think that bmi could do what SAS has done with snowflake and use baby as a marketing brand throughout the combined bmi and bmibaby networks. Im not bashing baby here, but I doubt their costs are all that low, compared to others in the market. The seperation between BD and WW seem slim at best? They use co-branded desks at MAN, and Ive also seen "flybmi.com" on the catering equipment on a WW 737!

Now that BD itself offers a buy-on-board service, whats the point of WW?

[G-LOST]

brian,
I have had the benefit of viewing the results for the LBA-LHR and it is safe to say that it is making good money, so don't worry..
The ERJs sit around at Leeds because the sums have been done and it is much more sensible to have them wait for their core flights (which with one possible exception are doing very well financially) than operate less profitable (and historically unprofitable) fillers, which expose the core operation to risk if things go tech.
Staff have been told that the last year has been the most profitable ever for bmi regional.
Thanks for your concern.

[johnrizzo2000]

How are they doing on DUB-LHR?

[Count von Altibar]

They are doing pretty well on the LHR-DUB, it's certainly one of their better routes. Things weren't so good a couple of years ago but I believe the yield is up considerably. This route has always had a lot of capacity on it (including other London airports in that) and has hence been very competitive. As far as I know the Jersey is pretty much a given, to be announced shortly.

[brian_dromey]

Staff have been told that the last year has been the most profitable ever for bmi regional.
Thanks for your concern.

No probs, I like to see bmi succeed, its a great brand and a very, very pretty color scheme!

bmi take an unfair bashing on here IMO. I really, really like bmi. As I said before, the're a class act.

Its good to hear that bmiRegional are doing so well at the minute. Long may it continue! Maybe we'll see them back at ORK someday! LHR-ORK on bmi anybody???!!!:}

[frontcheck]

Brian_dromey
there may be a number of inexpensive seats available in advance, but try booking within 48 hours of dep. Irrespective of the number of available seats, you will rarely get any fare less than the full fare. Which means anyone buying at ticket at the airport or changing a fare which involves a fare difference end up paying the full fare anyway.

[chrism20]

They are doing pretty well on the LHR-DUB, it's certainly one of their better routes. Things weren't so good a couple of years ago but I believe the yield is up considerably. This route has always had a lot of capacity on it (including other London airports in that) and has hence been very competitive. As far as I know the Jersey is pretty much a given, to be announced shortly.


Could this be anything to do with BD being the only carrier into London from DUB with a business cabin? I remember seeing a big banner in DUB in December saying something along the lines of 'we love doing business in Dublin' and then underneath it stating that they were the only carrier who had business class to LHR

[chrism20]

Announced today

New flights from Edinburgh to Zurich, Aberdeen to Khristiansand, Leeds Bradford to Copenhagen.

Additional service from Edinburgh to Manchester

Retimed flights from Edinburgh to Leeds Bradford

And finaly

4 new ERJ145s


http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/aboutbmi/presscentre/pressreleases.aspx?year=2007&rid=1067

[Flightrider]

Good news re regional developments.

LHR-Aberdeen will be an entire bmi regional operation - all five weekday flights will be flown by Embraer 145 this summer. One off-peak weekday LHR-Manchester will also be flown by the 145; plus the LHR-Hannover stays on the ERJ as well.

It also looks as though an Embraer will spend its entire day sitting in MME between a morning flight from LHR and an evening flight back. You'd have thought that they would at least send it somewhere where it could act as back-up to the rest of the fleet, but there you go!

[Curious Pax]

4 new ERJ145s

Press release doesn't mention new - are they factory fresh, or more used (source? LOT like the last 2?).

[chrism20]

Press release doesn't mention new - are they factory fresh, or more used (source? LOT like the last 2?).


Not sure if they are factory fresh or not, you are mistaken re the press release - it clearly states four new aircraft directly underneath the release date

http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/aboutbmi/presscentre/pressreleases.aspx?year=2007&rid=1067

[chrism20]

Good news re regional developments.

LHR-Aberdeen will be an entire bmi regional operation - all five weekday flights will be flown by Embraer 145 this summer.

Will it return to full service or still mainline BOB service on a regional a/c? - are BD's loads that low on ABZ/LHR?

Using an ERJ on MME services makes sense considering the poor loads on Airbus equipment.

What are the Airbuses going to be used on then? Jersey has been mentioned as a possibility where else?

[Count von Altibar]

Who knows? We've heard about baby, regional but what for the mainline? I think the Jersey is pretty much a certainty as I mentioned earlier. I guess it will be a hefty charter programme then again this summer to keep the sheckles rolling in!

[Gertcha]

Perhaps the Airbuses will be freed up for use on more "mid-haul" services, or to cover for when the last of the A321's will be returned?

[WHBM]

are BD's loads that low on ABZ/LHR?
Yes. About 25 pax in an A319 on the 1745 BD677 departure from ABZ only last night.

[onion]

The problem with the MME-LHR is that the timing of the flights and the fact that there was bad press with the pull out of bmibaby. Yes true the way things are going at the moment a ERJ is more suited to the route. BMI have ruined the route and anyone who works at the airport or uses the service will tell you that. It wasn't long ago when 16,000 to 20,000 were using it a month now its down to under 10,000 the last time i saw figures. AMS was handling more out of MME.

[The Moo]

Q. So whats the fixed 330 up to ?
Q How's the DME going ?
Q What are 20 new a/c up to when the 321's that have been in old colours for 6year are going ?

Any ideas

[chrism20]

Yes. About 25 pax in an A319 on the 1745 BD677 departure from ABZ only last night.

Are they all like that? Or are there some that are busier.

I would have thought a 1745 departure would have had better loads than that, or is everyone using the BA service at 1715?

[WHBM]

The problem with the MME-LHR is ..... BMI have ruined the route and anyone who works at the airport or uses the service will tell you that.
Indeed. Disregarding the new temporary 0630 "slotholder" from Heathrow (which you have to get up in the middle of the night to use), the first departure from Heathrow gets to MME at 1100, which means by the time you get to an office the working day is half gone.

The train from Kings Cross get you to Darlington (especially) or industrial Teesside notably earlier.

As one who has used DC9s (five times a day), F100s, A319s, and now apparently downsizing to Embraers, the current schedule is as useless as can be. Two of the four southbound flights are now after 7pm in the evening.

[WHBM]

I would have thought a 1745 departure would have had better loads than that, or is everyone using the BA service at 1715?
I would have thought so too. Most surprised on boarding to find behind the overwing exit was just bare. Though last night those who chose BA probably regretted it as the 1715 was forecasting a departure at 1900 (after the next BA flight ! )

[Flightrider]

1/ Don't know about the on-board service on the ERJ on Heathrow-Aberdeen. However the airline seems to be increasingly cutting its costs to hold slots at Heathrow - it is the only one now regularly using 50-seat jets into LHR.

2/ The fixed A330 is going/gone to Virgin Nigeria until May when it is being replaced by the two 767-300s that Astraeus will fly for VN. Its return seems to tie in to bmi's return of the Arkefly 767-300 and so presumably it will just take over the LHR-Saudi flying.

3/ DME - 60 is a good load, 40 is a bad load. Not setting the world on fire, but then you never quite know what the average ticket prices are. It might be their most profitable route if the fares are high! Still rumours of using A319s on Dammam. If they are going to operate Jersey, it looks as though they would need to pull off something (Heathrow-TeesSide?) to free up the slots.

4/ Airbuses released from the Heathrow ops by the ERJ will displace A321s slowly being phased out plus the one A320 operating a full-week charter programme from Leeds this summer for MyTravel.

[airhumberside]

However the airline seems to be increasingly cutting its costs to hold slots at Heathrow - it is the only one now regularly using 50-seat jets into LHR.
LH use CRJ's on all Stuttgart flights. Theres also KLM's Fokker 50's to Rotterdam and Eindhioven (not jet but still 50 seats). Luxair also use ERJ-145's on weekend flights

[Flightrider]

Announcement apparently coming tomorrow that all CDG operations will stop at the end of February, including LHR, LBA and EMA.

Presumably this will free up slots for the Heathrow-Jersey given that LHR-JER and LHR-CDG are roughly the same sector length?

Air Humberside - thought the LH CRJs were CRJ700s on Stuttgart. Fair point re the turboprops though!

[bmibaby.com]

Announcement apparently coming tomorrow that all CDG operations will stop at the end of February, including LHR, LBA and EMA.

The suspension of LHR-CDG is to do with the increased competition from other airlines, as well as the EuroStar - the latter which will become even more competitive next year after the move to St. Pancras International. LBA-CDG is ending because of low-cost competition from Jet2 as well as Thomsonfly just up the road at DSA, though the latter serves Orly.

There are no plans to cancel the EMA-CDG route as this is a profitable service which bmibaby have a monopoly on, and is under the jurisdiction of bmibaby at tiny town - not Donington Hall.

[airhumberside]

Air Humberside - thought the LH CRJs were CRJ700s on Stuttgart. Fair point re the turboprops though!
Think they are CRJ-100's, could be wrong though

LBA-CDG is ending because of low-cost competition from Jet2 as well as Thomsonfly just up the road at DSA, though the latter serves Orly.
DSA-ORY ends at the end of the winter season

[MarkD]

When I read the 4 x 145 on Jethros, given the oil price still about $50 and the state of the 50 seat jet market I have to say I assumed "new to you" - especially since Flybe are looking to shed their BA frames in favour of 190s and Q400s. :confused: Embraer offering "sale of the century" prices to keep the line open?

[Tisme]

Announcement apparently coming tomorrow that all CDG operations will stop at the end of February, including LHR, LBA and EMA.

Presumably this will free up slots for the Heathrow-Jersey given that LHR-JER and LHR-CDG are roughly the same sector length?

Air Humberside - thought the LH CRJs were CRJ700s on Stuttgart. Fair point re the turboprops though!

The announcement came yesterday.

[pzu]

From another forum:

bmi & bmi regional to drop Paris CDG

What will they use the LHR slots for?

PZU - Out of Africa

[mathers_wales_uk]

I'm sure that the last BMI Bbay A/C will end up going to BHX in order to fight off competition from FLYbe.

But with Thomson having a 737 at CWL now doing a Barcelona and possibly thinking of doing the CDG which hasn't been operated since Air Wales left in april (operating on behalf of BMI Baby) could it be the wrong idea no to base the 4th A/C at CWL instead?

It looks like their just pushing the BHX operations at the moment which could be a big mistake with FlyBe sniffing at CWL from June.

:ok:

[EI-BUD]

bmi suspends services to Paris Charles de Gaulle
With regret, due to commercial reasons, our services to Paris Charles de Gaulle are to be suspended from our summer schedule.

bmi services between London Heathrow and Paris will be suspended from 25 March 2007 inclusive (additional cancellations for this route during February and March may be possible and will be communicated when known)
bmi regional services between Leeds Bradford and Paris will be suspended from 25 March 2007 inclusiveAll passengers affected will be re-accommodated and further information will be available shortly.
We sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused and will endeavour to re-accommodate our passengers with minimum disruption.

The above is from the website, sad to see bmi pulling one of there long standing routes. Nice and Alicante to LHR is reduced for summer compared to last year, so much chopping and changing, no doubt more to come!

[uklad007]

So apart from the strongly suspected Jersey route which i think is a good thing (am v surprised there has not been a Jersey route from LHR for sometime and i hear that Jersey Airport has some sort of route development fund up and running of which this would have qualified) are the LHR slots soley going to be used for this or anything else too??.

In addition has the EMB at Leeds been earmarked for anything?.

Whilst it seems slightly odd for BMI to pull a destination like CDG completely from its schedule why compete with 2 other airlines at LHR which fly many times per day (BA/AF) and also against Jet2 at LBA - seems the right thing to do at LHR to pursue a route they will have sole operation of. I suspect the knock on effect might be a reduction in pax numbers on flights to LGW and LCY from JER providing BMI price correctly but it will also generate new customers who cant get onto the smaller capacity aircraft operated by BA/BE/VG into London.

[WHBM]

In addition has the EMB at Leeds been earmarked for anything........customers who cant get onto the smaller capacity aircraft operated by BA/BE/VG into London.
What is to say that BMI would not put the Embraer onto the proposed Jersey service ?

[chrism20]

BA use 737's on the Gatwick service, assuming BMI put either an A319 or A320 on the route capacity isn't that much more than the current BA service.

I would imagine BMI will be trying to lure the BA club passengers over to their business model into LHR, could be a very profitable route for BMI if they get the service and times right

[uklad007]

WHBM - i would be extremly surprised if they are operating a monopoly on the Jer-LHR that they would put an EMB on the route (mind you stranger things have happened) think i read somewhere on PPRUNE that a lot of the LGW pax actually then trf to Heathrow by road to catch connecting flights or are heading to Central London on business.

chrism20 - Yes your right they do, i guess i was more thinking of FlyBE and VGM's smaller props - either way its a big boost to capacity to London and probably very welcomed by Jersey business and residents - think it will do v well.

[WHBM]

I would imagine BMI will be trying to lure the BA club passengers over to their business model into LHR
Would that be the "Advertise only tiny fares but then quote only huge fares when passenger goes to book, also charge them for even a cup of coffee in exchange for said huge fare - oh, and discontinue any business class service on most routes" model ?

[chrism20]

I think any BMI service to JER would have a nice big front cabin.

I agree with you about some of BMI's fares though they look great until you add the taxes on, which always seems to be more than their competitors.

Also agree with you regarding the inflight service, it was a sad day when they went BOB

[Hangar_9]

D ooyu really want a LHR-JER service where at Heathrow you get lost baggage, check-in delays, security waiting times of ovr 1/2 an hour.
The BA LGW-JER does fine and it should stay that way.

[jerboy]

D ooyu really want a LHR-JER service where at Heathrow you get lost baggage, check-in delays, security waiting times of ovr 1/2 an hour.
The BA LGW-JER does fine and it should stay that way.

At LGW we get lost baggage, check in delays and long queues at security. Granted it may be worse at LHR, but why not give people the choice?

[GCIJ32]

Would it not be worth maybe BMI offering a triangular JER/GCI-LHR as this was once a very popular route when it was operated by AirUK. Surely a 4x daily triangle would prove very popular and certainly give FlyBE and BA a run for their money!! Guernsey has as many flights a day to LGW as Jersey so im sure there would be sufficient demand for a Heathrow. It would also be nice to see another airline operating out of the Island!!

[JobsaGoodun]

BMI do not have an aircraft capable of landing in GCI as far as i'm aware so that would rule out any JER/GCI rotation ex LHR.

I would also suspect that in order to get the high yield traffic they want then they'd have to sustain any LHRJER route with either A319/320 capacity providing some form of premium service. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm not sure if either A319/A320 are certified for GCI?

[GBALU53]

The A320 of a Portugueses operator as done one offs into there as far as \I am aware but for a schedule route I dont think so.

A good idea by GCIJ32 we will have to wait and see.

British Midland might sell the slots to bring funds back into the pot.

Until they annoce what they intend to do with the slots it is speculation all round.

They must have some thing up there sleeve and will annoce shortly what they intend to do.

Jersey might end up with some sower cream on there face with no Heathrow route.