Condolences.... is there a better way?

[victor two]

After recently posting a tongue in cheek comment, (which was answered with a steady stream of abuse from those who lack the ability to recognise tongue in cheek comments) about the way that many prunner’s post condolence messages on accident threads, I found myself wondering if there is a better way to go about it.

The typical pattern seems to go like this - an aircraft accident happens and someone gets hurt or killed. Almost immediately, clarification is sought from one and all to confirm the identity of the pilots / passengers / aircraft or company. This usually happens by the highly covert and sophisticated use of posting the victims first and last name initials or the nickname of the company itself. Then comes a mixed bag of emotional condolence messages, broken up with speculation, second and third hand news, rumours, innuendo and gossip about the pilot, the aircraft, the company and the industry as a whole. All from anonymous poster who use names like “hairyballs” and “bushmuncher” etc etc.

Now, would it perhaps be better if condolence messages were posted on their own “Condolence Book” type thread, posted among the main body of pprune topics military, historic airlpanes, rotorheads etc. This would allow any grieving and heartbroken fellow pilots to post their condolence remarks directly into the Condolence Book thread and leave the accident thread alone to run smoothly, powered by rumours, gossips and speculation, as it should be.

One simpleton in the other thread attacked me saying that I am heartless and that he has lost many mates to accidents and that he will post his condolence messages because he knows that relatives may read them and blah blah blah……. that’s great, if you are happy to have the relatives also read the other crap that gets put on the thread from “hairyballs” and “bushmuncher”, including wild speculation about pilot contribution to the crash, that the plane was overloaded, had not been trimmed, was carrying a non approved GPS or whatever

I’m sure that the parents would be really touched to hear the heartfelt and soothing words of “scrotebag” posted under a picture of a mangled fuselage and on top of a rumour that his company was not adhering to maintenance requirements.

If you really think that that is a better way then go ahead and continue. Personally, if I was that so bothered by the accident that I wanted to pass comment to the relatives then I would spend five bucks and buy a card and mail it to the family.

Ever considered trying it yourselves?

[wdn]

i think condolence posts are all about making the poster feel better and nothing at all about actually consoling relatives.

in that light, i can't see anything wrong with posting such messages on pprune, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that relatives of dead pilots are gonna sit around reading pprune in the hope of being consoled.

[prospector]

You will find that the owner of this site, Danny, made a request a few months back requesting that condolence messages not be posted on this site. He gave his reasons, these can be found with a search. Perhaps Woomerii could confirm that I have this correct????

[ace4bar's girlfriend]

Victor 2
You have a point. Your argument is logical. I read your other post and your retraction - and I'm assuming this post is a less-cynical way of saying it again.
wdn
There was a thread some time ago addressing a fatal accident where there was nothing but praise and tributes for the pilot ( think it may have been a baron accident in NT?) and I believe that a relative wrote a one-off post responding to all the supportive ppruners.
Ballsdeep
I've got a feeling that your response is probably what Victor 2 was expecting.

[Woomera]

victor two has a valid point.

"Condolences" seem to have developed into a ritual requirement from posters who wish to make comment on an accident.

Whilst not doubting the sincerity of a condolence, they are not necessary in order to make a valid posting, nor should it be the trigger for vilification or abuse should a poster not offer them.

This is a professional forum for mature and professional comment on accidents, how they may affect us and how we might discuss and effect appropriate remedies.

Our individual and collective concern and condolences should be and are a given.

Neither is "let's wait for the accident report before we discuss this" appropriate in a professional forum, provided the event is discussed professionally, rationally and without rancour.

That is what PPRuNe is about, a Forum for aviation professionals to meet, greet and share experiences and information that contribute to the corporate knowledge and may one day save your or someone elses life.

We may joke and horse around a bit, no problems with that, but we know when it is time to be seriously professional too.

Lets not tip toe around sensibilities either, when a polite but robust exchange is more appropriate, but neither should we trample over others rights and feelings where there is yet little evidence or the situation has not yet become clear.

It's all a matter of balance and that's how professionals conduct themselves.
:ok:

[OzExpat]

I don't often post on a thread about a fatal prang but, when I do, I've always felt that it was common decency to express condolences. Ít's just part of the values that I was taught all too many years ago. However, I wouldn't ever deride anyone for making a comment without offering condolences.

My thanks to Woomera for clarifying the situation in such cases, so I will refrain from posting condolences in the future. That might become a bit difficult though, if I happen to know any of the people involved in the accident. And, yes, in any such instance, I'd be buying the card and even making a phone call, if I can't visit at the time.

[Capt Claret]

Sadly, there doesn't seem to be all that much Professionalism displayed by many PPRuNers. Far too much bitching and personal slagging, and no where near as much vigorous debate, as I recall from years gone by.

[Trash Hauler]

I firmly believe that those who offer condolences on pprune want to ensure that any relatives who happens to read the thread doesn't think we are a bunch of heartless aviators only interested in the technicalities of a crash. At the end of the day real people are involved and real people are left devistated.

So if someone 'offers condolences' it is out of respect so what harm is done - None.

When you look at all the other waffle that appears from time to time I find it a surprise anyone is getting upset over a little respect being shown to those dead or grieving.

Cheers

TH

[Woomera]

Capt Claret. :ok:

And chaps, condolences by all means if the people involved are known to you personally.

They are otherwise fatuous, albeit well intentioned, from those who do not know them from Adam. You do not need an "excuse" to make appropriate comment.

In so far as relatives and friends are concerned, they should be aware that this IS a professional site, that the discussion is not personal or personally directed at the crew, but simply aimed at avoiding a repetition of the event by others.
We try as far as we are able, and apart from montoring the thread much more closely, to keep it on track.

[transonic dragon]

Sadly, there doesn't seem to be all that much Professionalism displayed by many PPRuNers. Far too much bitching and personal slagging, and no where near as much vigorous debate, as I recall from years gone by.

Well said, CC. Genuine condolences are fine, but let's all keep some decorum when there's an accident, particularly a fatal, and leave the speculation to the experts (ie NOT pilots). Never forget that every one of the posts on this forum is opinion, not fact.

[OzExpat]

Neither is "let's wait for the accident report before we discuss this" appropriate in a professional forum, provided the event is discussed professionally, rationally and without rancour.
That is what PPRuNe is about, a Forum for aviation professionals to meet, greet and share experiences and information that contribute to the corporate knowledge and may one day save your or someone elses life.

I just thought I'd quote this for the benefit of transonic dragon.