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MineDog
12th Jul 2006, 22:59
Hi,

Read in another forum: 'Aircraft over 5700 kg MAUW flying in the JAA region WILL BE TWO CREW -end of story'.
Now my question is: if this is true, why does the BE 1900 (MAUW +7500kg) appear in the official JAA list of single pilot aircraft?

Thanks for the info,
MD

MineDog
20th Jul 2006, 08:53
Can no one help me on this subject?

MD

international hog driver
20th Jul 2006, 09:58
Not 100% but this is my understanding

The 1900 was certified under SFAR 41 which is an adaptation of FAR23 so that some aircraft can meet most of the requirements of FAR 25.

Reasoning behind this was that the 300 was just a heavy 200, and the 350 was a slightly fatter version of the 300. The 350 formed the basis of the 1900C which then morphed into the 1900D.

All the time the aircraft remained single pilot capable (like the Twin Otter is a sp machine and the rules say 2 crew for commercial ops). With this in mind the rules allowed the aircraft to be operated with 1 crew should the pax seating not exceed 9 (?).

A few years back an operator in OZ flew their 1900’s by day two crew with pax on board and by night with cargo single crew!

The same with the Metro III/23 this thing is certified SFAR 41 and grandfathered on the type certificate of the Merlin/Metro II which was mtow 5700.

MineDog
20th Jul 2006, 11:39
Thanks for that info. I understand the FAA on the subject: the 1900 is a Single Pilot aircraft. But most kind of operations require 2 crew (under FAA regs).
But now my question stay more or less the same. Is it true that ALL aircraft +5700 kg are 2 crew ACCORDING TO JAA (not FAA). And if so: how can JAA then put the 1900 in the Single Pilot list. This would mean that under JAA law you ALWAYS have to fly the 1900 with 2 pilots, but it still is an official Single Pilot aircraft? And thats what I do not understand. Anyone more info on this?

THX

Dufo
20th Jul 2006, 13:06
One is JAA licensing, one is JAR OPS. JAA allows single-pilot operation of certain JAA-registered airplanes not operated under commercial operation.
http://vanzanten-studios.wehid.com/frr/fotke/spa.gif
http://vanzanten-studios.wehid.com/frr/fotke/spa2.gif

MineDog
22nd Jul 2006, 10:18
All right, get it i think. Altough just one more: is there ANY situation where I would be legal to fly the BE1900 Single Pilot under JAR OPS? I mean non commercial, just a private VFR flight with no pax.
If there is such a possibility it makes sense to me to have the 1900 listed as Single Pilot. If no such situation exists, then I UNDERSTAND the difference between OPS and licencing, but do not see any good reason to licence the aircraft in a way it will be never allowed to fly...
Any comments?

MD

StraightLevel
23rd Jul 2006, 08:44
hi guys,

with regard to the jar single pilot aircraft list posted by dufo, which lists the cessna 406 as such, i know of an opperator who uses the 406 with two pilots, both IFR and VFR, day and night.

would this count as multi-pilot hours towards ATPL issue?

regards,

straightlevel.

WX Man
23rd Jul 2006, 17:05
I believe that if the operations manual (issued in accordance with JAR-OPS 1) states that the aircraft is to be operated with 2 crew members, then the JAA should accept it as being valid for ATPL issue.

I have had several conversations recently, one with a B200 operator and the other with the operator of a Citation Bravo (both under 5700kg). They said that if they send you along to the CAA with 1500 hours, 500 multi crew, 100 night (etc etc) and a letter stating that the time logged in their aircraft is multi crew, this is no bar to getting the ATPL issued.

Either JAR-FCL has been changed, or the CAA's interpretation of JAR-FCL has changed. Multi crew time originally had very strict caveats: a/c over 5700kg, at least one cabin crew member. These have now been relaxed I believe.

Which leads me nicely to the following question:

An aircraft, operated in accordance with the company's operations manual, is operated by two pilots. The operations manual isn't issued in accordance with JAR-OPS 1 because it doesn't need to be (the operator doesn't need an AOC). The aircraft is a PA31-350 (MAUW 3175kg). Can that be counted as multi crew time do you think?

Bear in mind that both pilots are appropriate qualified to command the aircraft, having as they do MEP ratings. However their IRs (which might or might not be used) are Single Pilot Aeroplane IRs.