Showing Face (going in cold) the way to get job in Africa?

[Jump Complete]

Hi, I'm a UK CPL, 2200 hours tt, 245 hours multi engine. 200 hours on piston Islanders, will have around 150 hours on C206 when current job ends (in UK) in end of October. Now completly fed up with UK aviation scene. Ryanair etc can shove it regards paying for type rating and not getting properly paid anyway.
I want a bit of an adventure and I love hands on flying. Don't mind getting my hands dirty; refueling myself, washing bugs off wings and screen at end of day (do all that now anyway!) I've decided to try and get work in Southern Africa, understand Botswana is a good place to go.
I guess the best thing is to pack a back-pack, put my face through doors etc. Know I'm not going to get anything like UK airline wages but I'm not now anyway. As long as I earn enough to send back a couple of hundred sterling per month for depts and have enough left over to live I'll be happy.
I understand the season starts in March / April time in Botswana but as my job ends in October thought I'd go straight out in November to be ahead of game. Plan was to go for two or three weeks then come back if succseful.
Know this is a pretty frequent question but any advice gratefully recieved.

Regards.
J.C.

[Propellerpilot]

Well good for you - I am sure you can find better stuff with your experience - why do you have to take jobs away from guys that are from this part of the world and have less than yourself to offer ? ever thought about that ? Bots and Nam are about the only places where local pilots who just got their Coms have a chance to build some hours.

Go forwards not backwards...

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

Propellerpilot,
why you do not ask to the air company in Bot and Nam why they are giving away the job to the outsider pilots instead to the local pilots.You will receive better answer.
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante
P>S>
Pilots do not have nationality .The world is our home.

[Phenomenon]

I get the feeling that this thread is going to end up going into the same direction as countless other threads... it's old and we've been through it all. Let's not venture into the same old argument of who deserves the job or not... I'm begging you.. :=

Jump complete... I have to warn you though... I have been doing contracts in Africa for a while now and I guarentee you it's not that much fun as it sounds. I know you are in a different position than the guys that have been doing it for a while and I know it sounds adventurous... but trust me when I say that it's only fun and adventurous for your first one or two tours... then it just becomes work.

Alot of guys do however enjoy it... It all depends on what you want in you aviation career and where you want to go. So just think it through carefully.

But good luck wherever you end up and just always remember: Fly it like your stole it!!!:ok:

[Jelly Doughnut]

JC
You are doing the right thing... going down there to show your face is the only way although you may need to hang around for longer than 2-3 weeks!
Also consider Namibia - awesome flying and a few decent companies to get started with. I visited there (on honeymoon) and was virtually offered a job flying C210... sounded fun to me but it was not quite what my wife had in mind!

[Shrike200]

Ryanair etc can shove it regards paying for type rating and not getting properly paid anyway.

That sounds pretty much like the standard practice down here!

As long as I earn enough to send back a couple of hundred sterling per month for depts and have enough left over to live I'll be happy.

You probably won't be happy then. Does 'a couple of hundred', mean, say....two hundred? Maybe then....

Negativity aside, it sounds like you have the right type of experience though, if you're prepared to hang around somebody ought to take you on, assuming the usual 'right time, right place' conditions are met. Like other comments here, I would like to echo that you may think it appeals to you now, but it gets old quite fast. The lifestyle that is, once the wheels leave the ground it's all good....

[Jump Complete]

Thanks for the replies. Something for me to think about!
To answer a couple of points brought up:
*Taking jobs aways from local pilots-I'm in the same situation surely, when pilots from europe (not to mention Australia and NZ) come to UK. Not complaining, good luck to them, but it seems the same to me.
*If it palls after a couple of tours (how do you difine a 'tour' by the way) well nothing is forever, may be I'll move on. But it is someting I dreamt of doing when I first thought of flying for a living then 'grew out of'. Now, approaching thirty and still single with no morgage etc, I'm thinking, why not, it's now or never!
One last thing, I understand that (in Botswana anyway) the 'flying season' gets going around April. Does this make November (ie well ahead of time) a good time to introduce myself or would I be better waiting until, say, January?

Blue skies,
J.C.

[Jelly Doughnut]

JC
November is a good time, I finished my Comm around this time of year and the operators in Maun were all looking for the next season.
JD

[Beech19]

Hi J.C.

Bots and Nam are really incredible places to fly, and if you end up there i think that you will really enjoy yourself.
Money will be a problem though. Most guys use these jobs to build experiance, and therefore the companies don't pay that well. You get enough to live, but i doubt you make enough to send a few Pounds home. Not at the current exchange rates. In truth you're only going to be making a few hundred pounds.
I hope that this doesn't put you off too much.

Good luck with your decision.

[Contract Dog]

J C, I did the maun thing and unfortunately for you, the operators do not count time and ratings, it is more a case of "do you get on with the guys and gals there" and as B190 said, 2 or 3 weeks isnt enough, I saw guys staying in a tent there for 6 months and still go home empty handed. A good idea to look into if you want to get your hands dirty is maybe a cojo job on a C208??? the UN requirements have just gone up to 2000hrs total time for a P2 position on a Van, as crazy as that is!!!!!!!!!!!!! the operators of vans are DESPERATE at the moment as there are not too many guys willing to sit in the right seat with that kind of time. I would recomend going to Lanseria, in SA, doing a Van rating and then trying Solenta Aviation, King Air Services, Quella, NAC, Executive Turbine. a van job as cojo should fetch from 1700 US to 2300 $ a month. PM me for more info

[Shrike200]

Geez - what are the UN smoking?! They're really getting ridiculous now. Is that their only answer to safety? Raise the minimum requirement? Next the guy who fuels the plane will need an ATP!! How on earth will a 2000 hr cojo on a Van help anything? The guy will be going out of his mind with frustration half the time!

[wheels up]

What is laughable is that they then jump on their European carrier for the flight home - and the co-jo has 200 hrs!

[KESHO]

Shrike200-if the customer wants 2000, he gets 2000. I do agree 2000 hrs on a Van for the right seat is rather a large requirement, but then again if that is what will keep them in the air and out the mountains, then it is what must be done.
Statistics on this continent speak for themselves, ie. the experience level is very low for the type of flying that one has to do, hence the amount of accidents and incidents. Experience has something to do with it...luck also has a say, but normally luck increases with experience too.
I think when the hour requirements increase, it is only a good thing at the end of the day not only for safety, but also for salaries. An operator that is used to paying a low time Van copilot peanuts will not be able to do so anymore as the chap with 2000 hrs will be in an airline job already. Yeah it might be **** for someone to sit in the right seat of a Van with 2000hrs, but at the end of the day with that experience you will be in line for something better soon anyway.

Kesho

[Jelly Doughnut]

hey Wheelsup... still in the sandpit? doing HME next month,10th, cu on the ramp?

[crause]

When the government of the day retain and acknowledge race as well as set up policies along skin color lines, then obviously they have got to budget vastly for racism in there future,(we all know too well what that means) .
Why did the Government turn their back on the minorities if we can all recall from the ANC leadership speeches in 1994 that this land will never acknowledge race. And that color of ones skin would never again be the reason to discriminate against anyone ?
We should all go to the department of Home Affairs and have ourselves legitimately endorsed and declared “Africans” even the Indians and coloreds too.
One would think that the African National Congress nowadays is up to the same activities as their former masters the (South African) National Party of days gone by.

[wheels up]

Jelly doughnut: I %^$#@ hope not.

Well good for you - I am sure you can find better stuff with your experience - why do you have to take jobs away from guys that are from this part of the world and have less than yourself to offer ? ever thought about that ? Bots and Nam are about the only places where local pilots who just got their Coms have a chance to build some hours.

Go forwards not backwards...

Improper pilot: Not sure if you heard the news but South West Africa is now called Namibia, and it's no longer a South African protectorate. Happened in 1990. Apartheid ended (die groot krokedil is gone), the Berlin wall has also been knocked down and believe it or not the cold war is over. Bush is still in power!

You also seem to be confused about Botswana. That never was a South African colony - they weren't keen at all.

Next you will be telling us that the Aussies and Kiwis are entitled to all the jobs in Asia since they're closer. I figure lets just keep the status quo - might work out better for us all in the long run.

Jumpcomplete; with your hours and me time I would contact some of the contract companies in SA (all the usual culprits) and consider doing a 1900 rating or a van rating in SA - as contract dog says a lot of the contracts have high time requirements for the co-jos. Since most of the contracts are outside of SA you wouldn't need a SA work permit.

Did the camping in Maun thing for over a month in Nov/Dec shortly after getting my com, and that was pretty much enough for me. Interesting experience though, but decided to cut my losses when nothing turned up. There was one Canadian bloke who had been trying for a job for 6 months plus. You need a strong liver to survive there as well.

Went back to Maun in the wet season on a charter a couple of years later - the experience was slightly different though since I was staying in a 600 USD/night lodge, not a borrowed tent. Absolutely stunning and never seen game like that before or since.

Looking for adventure? Be careful what you wish for - your wishes might come true!

[Shrike200]

Shrike200-if the customer wants 2000, he gets 2000. I do agree 2000 hrs on a Van for the right seat is rather a large requirement, but then again if that is what will keep them in the air and out the mountains, then it is what must be done.
Statistics on this continent speak for themselves, ie. the experience level is very low for the type of flying that one has to do, hence the amount of accidents and incidents. Experience has something to do with it...luck also has a say, but normally luck increases with experience too.
I think when the hour requirements increase, it is only a good thing at the end of the day not only for safety, but also for salaries. An operator that is used to paying a low time Van copilot peanuts will not be able to do so anymore as the chap with 2000 hrs will be in an airline job already. Yeah it might be **** for someone to sit in the right seat of a Van with 2000hrs, but at the end of the day with that experience you will be in line for something better soon anyway.

Kesho


I disagree here to a certain extent - sure, it's the clients game, and they can call the shots. But you do get to a point of diminishing returns. If another 'Van hits a mountain, should they insist on a 5000 hour right seater? If your answer is no, then you actually agree with me. We just differ on the total hours in this case. I know I'd rather have a switched on, keen guy/girl with 500 hrs in the right hand seat than somebody who doesn't want to be there and is suffering from terminal frustration. After all, somebody with 500 hrs can still read an MSA (amongst many other things of course), and a lot of it is common sense and a good instinct. Experience certainly helps, but like I said, diminishing returns. As far as the incidents and accidents go, I would say that even a 10000 Van captain could eventually get caught out by African conditions - it's just a matter of time spent exposed to them. Perhaps an aspect of the answer lies in more training? Who out there has done the actual UN required ditching training for example, in an actual pool in the dark? (If I heard correctly in a recent discussion) Not too many I'd imagine. Companies are no doubt loath to spend that amount on training guys who they consistently make little to no effort to hold onto.

I also disagree about the salaries. My experience of SA operators, is that they will make no effort whatsoever to hold onto the experienced guys. They will merely allow the strangled demand back home in SA to do their work for them. So when the time comes and there is some movement in the industry, those pilots will be gone in an instant, and the operators will be left wringing their hands with the usual 'Crew shortage, help us!' plea. What they actually want to say is 'There's a shortage of 4000 hr total time with 2000 on type B1900 Captains willing to do contract work and not go to the big jet airline career they've been dreaming of, all for 4000 USD per month, help us!!' If they want that sort of experience, they should be prepared to pay for it. Supply and demand.

..and I'm hijacking this thread. My apologies.

[Contract Dog]

:ok: well said shrike!, have a beer from me!

[Jump Complete]

Well more to think about, thanks guys (and gals!)
Not all what I wanted to hear, but hey, thats why I posted to find out before I got there. Not put off yet, by any means but camping for six months in the hope of something turning up is not an option.
I'm going to look into the C208 cojo stuff, yeah maybe I am beyond something like that but then again to be frank, there ain't too many bush pilot skills needed in south-east England. Turbine time would be usefull. I'm figuring anyway that even if the first job I get out there isn't the best (providing its not doing something silly) getting onto the scene is the important thing, I can always move onto to better companies once I've got some kind of track record in that kind of flying.
P.S. reason I'm so slow getting back to this topic each time is that I'm not on line at home (temporary accomadation with the job) and the centres computers have red-listed PPRUNE for some reason!
Blue Skies!