ASPIRIN - For and Against

[Old Smokey]

I've always been super cynical of quackery, snake oil merchants, and doctors peddling their pet theories, but my personal doctor has suggested the daily use of 80 mg of Aspirin as a preventative measure, the benefits alluded to being -

(1) Reduced / Eliminated / Delayed onset of thrombosis,
(2) Reduced / Eliminated / Delayed onset of blood clot formation, with obvious implications for DVT and Stroke,
(3) Reduced / Eliminated / Delayed onset of Cancer risk, as Aspirin is (he claims) an Anti-Oxidant,
(4) Reduced / Eliminated / Delayed onset of Erectile Dysfunction (in men obviously).

Food for thought. Items (1) and (2) are well accepted in the medical community, but the latter two items come as a complete surprise to me, and, if true, make the regular use of Aspirin as a preventative measure, a worth-while activity.

I've followed his advice, but haven't noticed any change over 3 to 4 months, but this is not surprising as I (touch wood) suffered none of the problems alluded to anyway. He is a Professor of Internal Medicine at a university hospital (his stature lends some weight to my being convinced), but my regular doctor, who is also my Aviation Medical Examiner, says that "the jury is still out" on the matter, but says that there's no harm in continuing the therapy in any case.

So, what is the truth? I have no digestive problems after 3 to 4 months, and whilst bleeding is slightly slower to clot, is not a problem at all.

Regards,

Old Smokey

[captwannabe]

If you use a drug that frequently, isn't it possible that after a while the effects will be reduced as your body gets used to it? I could be well off the mark with that, but I'm curious. Your post does make interesting reading.

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

All things you write is true. Aspirin is really effective against what you mentioned. The downside is that you hurt your stomach.

Here in Greece Doctors recommend Aspirin but its better to take another form of Aspirin its called Salospir here in Greece. Its Aspirin that does not get disolved in the stomach but in the intestine and saves you from ulcers.

[mrloop]

Avoid taking aspirin on an empty stomach - it can irritate the stomach lining and worse, if you have stomach ulcers cause perforation.

I've been taking 75mg a day for about 9 years without adverse effects but remember YMMV

[obgraham]

Here in Greece Doctors recommend Aspirin but its better to take another form of Aspirin its called Salospir...
That would be Ecotrin, here in N.America. It might avoid stomach pain for some folks.

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

I dont have any Cardiac or circulatory problems but as a prevention I drink lemon juice and I eat garlic tablets.

[rodthesod]

I've followed his advice, but haven't noticed any change over 3 to 4 months, but this is not surprising as I (touch wood) suffered none of the problems alluded to anyway. He is a Professor of Internal Medicine at a university hospital (his stature lends some weight to my being convinced), but my regular doctor, who is also my Aviation Medical Examiner, says that "the jury is still out" on the matter, but says that there's no harm in continuing the therapy in any case.

So, what is the truth? I have no digestive problems after 3 to 4 months, and whilst bleeding is slightly slower to clot, is not a problem at all.



Precisely, if you're taking a medicine to prevent the onset of problems you won't notice any change. Stop using and you may or may not have problems.
My AME doctor recommended 75mg aspirin daily about 15 years ago ( I have a family history of thrombosis/strokes). I take one with water after first meal of the day and so far no problems.

Regards,

rts

[CherokeeDriver]

Can cause "gout". It happened to me......

[rodthesod]

Can cause "gout". It happened to me......

No argument with you, but this extract is from MedicineNet.com (my bold text edit):

First, Gout is medical condition that is characterized by abnormally elevated levels of uric acid in the blood, recurring attacks of joint inflammation (arthritis (http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=7776)), deposits of hard lumps of uric acid in and around the joints, and decreased kidney function and kidney stones. While Gout is often associated with an abnormally elevated blood uric acid level, it need not be. This means that the medical condition of Gout can exist in an individual regardless of an elevated uric acid level in that person. This even holds true for an acute attack of gouty arthritis! Moreover, many patients with elevated blood levels of uric acid (hyperuricemia) never develop gout.
It is, therefore, important to understand that it may not necessarily be the level of uric acid that triggers an acute attack of gout. Frequently, acute attacks are precipitated by a rapid change of uric acid, either up or down. Additionally, the tendency towards developing gout seems to be significantly influenced by the metabolism a person inherits.
Secondly, it is true that small doses of aspirin can increase the level of uric acid in the blood because it can impair the excretion of uric acid from the kidneys. However, this change is typically only noted when aspirin is taken in the usual over-the-counter doses (two 325mg tablets every four hours). An extremely low dose of aspirin (75-81mg per day), which is given, for example, for heart attack (http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=379) or stroke (http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=489) prevention, should not significantly alter the level of uric acid in the blood. Furthermore, even the higher doses mentioned should only cause an attack of Gout in a person who already has the condition or is at risk for an attack, not in an individual with a normal metabolism.

[Mac the Knife]

Taking a low dose of aspirin daily is a good thing, but PLEASE PLEASE

IF you have to have an operation, even cutting out a mole
STOP the aspirin a week beforehand
TELL the poor bloody surgeon at your initial consult and again preop.

I've had nightmare patients who bled for ages on aspirin

Folks who've been on it for ages often don't tell you when you ask 'em, "Are you taking any medicines or tablets for anything?" 'cos they stop regarding it as a drug.

Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrhhhhhh! :ugh:

[BelfastChild]

Can I be controversial and say I hate people taking aspirin. When my job was cutting heads open (many moons ago mind you) I would say that half my 'clients' were getting the chop because of being on aspirin. If you do take it, please please please don't fall over......there is a poor neurosurgical registrar somewhere waiting to cut your head open and scoop out some red jelly in the middle of the night

[rodthesod]

Can I be controversial and say I hate people taking aspirin. When my job was cutting heads open (many moons ago mind you) I would say that half my 'clients' were getting the chop because of being on aspirin. If you do take it, please please please don't fall over......there is a poor neurosurgical registrar somewhere waiting to cut your head open and scoop out some red jelly in the middle of the night

BelfastChild
For an ex-neurosurgical registrar your post seems rather vague, sensationalist and devoid of factual evidence. Could you be more specific?

Did they fall over because they were taking aspirin which made them unsteady?
Did they fall over because they were taking aspirin which killed them?
Did they fall on their heads and bleed to death?
What was the red jelly? Are you talking 'blood clot'? Did aspirin do that?
What kind of dose rate did these poor unfortunates use?Finally, is there a 'practicing' pathologist out there who can enlighten the likes of myself? I've been taking 75mg aspirin/day for 15 years and I've never heard any stories like BelfastChild's.

[BelfastChild]

Did they fall over because they were taking aspirin which made them unsteady? no, they fell over because they were old
Did they fall over because they were taking aspirin which killed them? see above
Did they fall on their heads and bleed to death? no, they hit their heads and sustained a subdural haematoma
What was the red jelly? Are you talking 'blood clot'? Did aspirin do that? the red jelly is blood clot - the subdural haematoma. The aspirin was not entirely responsible - the head trauma started the bleeding, the aspirin prolonged it
What kind of dose rate did these poor unfortunates use? variable, normally either 75 mg or 150 mg dailyMy post was not meant to be sensationalist. I wanted to point out that aspirin (and even worse - clopidogrel....'the dog') can have serious side effects.

Any antiplatelet therapy (aspirin or clopidogrel) or anticoagulation (warfarin) will increase the risk of an intracranial bleed after minor head trauma. It's a fact of life that old people fall over, hit their heads, and have bleeds. It's not common. That's probably why you have never heard of it. But I can assure you that when you are the neurosurgical registrar on call at a tertiary hospital with a neurosurgical catchment area of in excess of half a million people, you will see it.

If we didn't get to them in time, the practiSing pathologists would then have got a crack at them....

[rodthesod]

Did they fall over because they were taking aspirin which made them unsteady? no, they fell over because they were old
Did they fall on their heads and bleed to death? no, they hit their heads and sustained a subdural haematoma
What was the red jelly? Are you talking 'blood clot'? Did aspirin do that? the red jelly is blood clot - the subdural haematoma. The aspirin was not entirely responsible - the head trauma started the bleeding, the aspirin prolonged it
What kind of dose rate did these poor unfortunates use? variable, normally either 75 mg or 150 mg daily

So I think I'll take my chances with 75mg/day and run the risk of getting old. The way things were going a few years ago I didn't look like making 50. If I sustain a subdural haematoma as a result of a kitesurfing injury now at 64, I'll die happy in the belief that aspirin gave me a life other of my less fortunate ancesters did not enjoy.

regards,

rts

[Oh that's super!]

Rodthesod, I'm no surgeon or a doctor but I got what BelfastChild was trying to say in the first post, loud and clear. It's good to hear some differing opinions - there are often many sides to the same thing.

Just to add the negative side, I'm one of those people who get gastric bleeding when I take aspirin or NSAID, and while I haven't had any subdural haematoma, I would like to point out that it is possible to get gastric bleeding from those things - and what did it do? It made me severely anaemic because I didn't realise that it was causing bleeds :bored: and it made me stay in bed for excessive hours - wonder if I'd have got a blood clot but for the aspirin due to inactivity!

It's great if it's working out for you though.

[rhovsquared]

Old Smokey: with greatest respect :) Take the aspirin (if you have no GI problems) it is a proven thrombolytic and and can go a long way in preventing DVT.

By the way DVT( in the legs) can be checked by Homan's sign where fforcible backward tilting of the foot (dorsiflexion) produces calf pain, but all that sitting on long hauls, or sitting and PPruneing or doing maths in the 'back room' does put you in a higher risk category. So, weighing risks/ benifits I'd take the 81 mg every day.

regards,

rhovsquared

and you too Mutt and John tullamarine := := :)

edited to say _ AS far as items 3 and 4 I, really have to look that up not on the web; I'll check the biogical and medical literature i.e JAMA or NEJM or Lancet... not really sure just mostly about DVT but it is a prostoglandin inhibitor and i have heard of some effect in lowering C-reactive protein levels (a sign of inflamatory disease) but nowadays they have buffered versions and it one of the oldest drug in the Pharmacopea.

rhov

[Old Smokey]

My sincere thanks to all of you that took the time and care to reply to my post. On balances, I think that the jury is in, a daily LOW dose of Aspirin is a good preventative measure against some very serious problems.Thank you too for the warnings, yes, Mac the Knife, BelfastChild, and others who have voiced warnings, I hear your words clearly and will take the appropriate cautions. Not withstanding your well considered warnings, of excessive bleeding through to gout, I think that I prefer to take my chances with them as an alternative to Stroke, Thrombosis, or even worse, Erectile Dysfunction!:E:uhoh:

Like rodthesod,it's a preventative measure, I don't have any of the symptoms mentioned, but a family history of Thrombosis and a seemingly higher Cancer incidence in the age bracket about 15 years ahead of me would indicate to me that LOW Aspirin dose therapy might be a good ounce of prevention (or 80 mg anyway) Vs a pound of cure. There's no family history of Stroke, thankfully, and none of the ageing male family members admits to any Erectile Dysfunction, my 85 year old father does however, admit to taking Viagra every night, but only so that he doesn't roll out of bed:E

Jimmy The Big Greek, I wish that I'd known that "Salospir" was the trade name for low dose Aspirin in Greece. I last ran out of stock in Athens, and had to buy the regular Aspirin over the counter as a temporary measure. Tastes like crud!

Thank you all again, all inputs appreciated!

Regards,

Old Smokey

[Oh that's super!]

Stroke, Thrombosis, or even worse, Erectile Dysfunction!:E:uhoh:

I like your priority :}