Refuelling trailer/bowser - merged threads

[OneManBand]

Some help / advice would be great:

I understand the volume limits for carriage of DG (JET-A1) on UK roads to be 1000L without further DG training required by the driver.

As a result:
- Does anyone know any different to this ? I think I'm aware of 2000L trailer bowsers, but want to avoid the expense of extra training for driver
- Does anyone know of a second hand trailer bowser for sale / lease (preferably 1000L unless further information from point 1 above) in the Border region of England / Scotland?
- Any specific requirements for the trailer: i.e. double axel (sensible, but is it a requirement); braked trailer (again, sensible, but is it a requirement); placcards (soemthing I read says this is only applicable above a certain volume - not totally sure); etc?

I am not a total novice but trying to make my way through the legal requirements of transporting fuel for off-site refuelling.

Your help / advice / thoughts / insults greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
OMB

[jbrereton]

Found this webpage and has the regulations at the bottom of left hand side.
http://www.fuel-tanks.net/fuelbowsers.htm
another page
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cdg.pdf

The driver of a vehicle carrying dangerous goods (other than explosives and radioactive material) in packages, which has a maximum permissible weight of 3.5 tonnes or less, currently does not need to have undertaken approved training and hold a VTC even if the load is over the Transport Category threshold. However, he/she will at the least need to have undertaken general training as per Regulation 9. From 1 January 2007, the VTC requirement will be extended to include drivers of vehicles of 3.5 tonnes or less. Note that the VTC is already (and will continue to be) required for drivers carrying loads of explosives over the Transport Category threshold regardless of the weight of the vehicle. Again, for loads under this amount it is still a requirement that the driver (and anyone else involved with the transport operation) received some kind of suitable training.

This was found on this webpage.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_freight/documents/page/dft_freight_504701.hcsp

For bowser requirements why don't you chat to the makers as though you were a customer and get a brochure, this should have all the requirements in it.



JB

[OneManBand]

All good advice - thanks JB

[TiPwEiGhT]

Anyone with a drivers licence issued before 1997 does not need to do further trailer training with a driving instructor. Licences issued after 1997, are authorised to tow trailers upto and including 750KGS, anything greater requires training with an approved instructor.

With regards to the Carriage of Dangerous Good by Road, even a 1000LTR bowser requires someone in the vehicle (doesn't have to be the driver) to hold a valid Dangerous Good Licence for Flammable Liquids (class 3). I would suggest you don't drive without one, I have been stopped a few times and been questioned about the fuel bowser and its contents.

TiP:ok:

[Colonal Mustard]

"No officer its water, just smells like A1 from the previous load"

[ROTORVATION]

HI

WE'VE GOT A BOWSER THAT HAS BEEN WELL KEPT IN THE HANGAR FOR QUITE SOME TIME THAT HAS NOT BEEN USED. I'LL HAVE A WORD WITH THE BOSS AS I'M SURE SHE WANT'S TO RENT / SELL IT. GOING TO HAVE A LOOK AT IT NOW, AS I'M SURE IT'S A DOUBLE AXLE 2000L BUT I'LL GET BACK TO YOU.

LOCATED BLACKPOOL IF ANY USE

RV:ok:

[ROTORVATION]

Hi Again

The bowser is for sale / rent, you are quite welcome to visit at anytime to view & discuss whether you want to buy / rent.

Let me know, and I'll send you via PM my contact details.

Best regards

Rv:ok:

[Merlin21]

RV

Did you receive that pm ok?

M21.

[FC1]

What about your vehicle insurance? I would be interested to know how you get on. I found it impossible to get insurance because of the environmental risks. Don't think for one moment that declaring you are 'towing a trailer' will be enough.

[pzu]

There is a possibility that you may have to be involved with the 'The Carriage of Dangerous Goods Regulations 2004' :ouch: and under these regs will be reqiured to have an appointed 'Dangerous Goods Safety Advisor' :D

Suggest you do a 'google' and contact one for advice

PZU - Out of Africa

DGSA expired :{

[Flaxton Flyer]

Might need to purchase a road-going Jet-A1 mini-bowser (2,000lts -ish). Anybody know of any good condition used - sorry "pre-owned" units that may be available? If so, I would appreciate a PM.

Thanks

[landy01]

Check your pm's:ok:

[Hughes500]

Hope you are not in the UK, if you are unless you have an ADR licence you cannot legally tow more than 1000 ltrs on the road !

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Various sizes of bowser available here (http://www.fuelproof.co.uk)

[VfrpilotPB/2]

Flaxton,
my chap has sold both of his on, sorry,
If you do buy one get the twin axle type, they are far easier to pull and dont impose any overweight on your tow bar, in any case the smallest vehicle to use would be a L/R Disco with Air sus and HDuty tow hitch, thats what I used and the weight of the LR is not affected by any surge when stopping.

Peter R-B:ok:

[whoateallthepies]

Flaxton
There was a certain plastic surgeon 206 owner who had a trailer bowser I believe? :}
http://i.1asphost.com/whoateallthepies/pie.jpg

[Flaxton Flyer]

Thanks for the replies gents.

Hughes 500 - yes I had been told that - I believe that the ADR course is only for one day?

Peter - we have a Merc ML to tow it with, (sorry, global what?) so hopefully that should be man enough.

Pieman - still hear the good doctor's 206 landing at his place, so I would presume he still has a need for it, but it's certainly worth a phone call. thx.

[whoateallthepies]

He might be a good doctor but he had very strange ideas about running an Air Ambulance! He might give you the bowser as long as he can replace you with a Finnish pilot who won't talk to the Paramedics.
Happy Days. http://i.1asphost.com/whoateallthepies/pie.jpg

[md 600 driver]

flaxton

are you needing to buy or do you just need to borrow one occasionally

[206 jock]

Last time I looked, the ADR course was three days:eek:. Sounds like my definition of hell. If you find a one day course, count me in.

[Flaxton Flyer]

Jock - you maybe right about that. I thought it was no training up to 1,000 ltrs, a one-day course up to 2,000 ltrs and a 3 day course above that. I am quite prepared to be wrong though..

Pieman - after 3 years "working with" the NHS I can understand now why Captain Finn used to lock himself away in the darkened office!

Steve - think the current plan is to buy, but hiring / borrowing / scrounging can never be ruled out if the price is right.

[FC1]

And don't forget how you will insure it on the road. I have held an ADR licence for many years but found it impossible to get cover when I was looking to tow a 1500 litre bowser a couple of years ago. As soon as I mentioned what I wanted to convey every insurance company or broker I contacted refused point blank to provide cover due to the risks. In fact I was told 'I was uninsurable'.

I would be interested to hear of anyone elses experiences who ARE towing fuel bowsers and how they got their insurance cover - assuming that the insurance cover required was to transport Jet A1 (Kerocene) and not just to tow a trailer!

[206 jock]

I've heard of someone who covers their bowser (one of the 'squared off' types, not round) with a tarpaulin, so it looks like a normal trailer! Off he goes and fills it up from his source.

Heaven forbid! What these pilot types get up to is nobody's business:)

[PEASACAKE]

I know an AS350 operator who carries the fuel tank in the back of an enclosed truck.

Out of sight and out of mind seems to work for him.

[Pigeon-dodger]

Hi All,

I need to buy a fuel bowser to keep on the airfiled. I guess i will go for a road legal version for Avgas. Questions are

1) Anyone recomend a manufacturer?
2) If we keep it on airfield, we will have to employ the airfield to take it to get filled up on the apron (they will not fill it on the grass nor stop on the nearby taxiway to fill it) do we need liability insurance etc for it??
3) Does the CAP748 apply....do we have to keep records of fuel test and samples etc....I am guessing we do...:bored:

tks:ok:

[Pigeon-dodger]

ooops sorry i missed this thread....

After checking, the ADR course is one day for 1,000ltrs, Well equiped bowser from good manufactire is £7,500 plus vat.

I am working ont the insurance but as an 'aircraft operator' it looks like i will need 'hangerkeepers liability' in order to cover the risks ascoiated with the Bowser....lets guess £3,000 plus ipt PER YEAR

ADR course £200

Insurance for road risks towing fuel....no idea

'Airside insruance' for car to get it on/off the air...no idea

'heath and saftey' and 'operating procedures' as per the CAP document above....no idea :ugh:

The story goes on but i will not bore you all with it...all beacuse the Heli is on the grass and not the apron..:mad: