Single pilot in Citations?

[Mooneyboy]

I have been told that single pilot in Citations is no longer legal other than in the 525 CJ1.

the 500/550/560 which have been SP now require two type rated pilots.
On the FAA system the second pilot only used to require a multi IR. That was abolished for pilots outside the USA.

Now from what I have been told single pilot has also been thrown out through some legal loophole which was unearthed recently.

Anyone know anything about this

Thanks

[con-pilot]

Not for part 91 operators in the US that I am aware of, there are still plenty of single pilot CE-500 operating in the US.

[flyboyike]

That's correct, all straight-wing Citations are single-pilot legal in the US.

[Chilli Monster]

It is true in Europe

Single pilot exemption, perfectly valid in the US, is no longer permitted in the European area as EASA rules for aircraft flying in the JAA region are that aircraft over 5700kgs MAUW will be two crew - end of story. You can still obtain a Single pilot rating on annual recurrency at places like FSi, but the aircraft still needs a rated co-pilot when operated.

There is a way round this. P2 only requires a SiC rating, which is 3 take-offs and landings (one assymetric) as sole manipulator of the aircraft, plus training in aircraft systems and procedures (both emergency and normal). This can be signed off by any rated ATP, then submitted to the FAA for inclusion on your licence.

[Mooneyboy]

Sorry for not being clear I am referring to Europe and especially the UK?

Mooneyboy

[Mooneyboy]

It is true in Europe
Single pilot exemption, perfectly valid in the US, is no longer permitted in the European area as EASA rules for aircraft flying in the JAA region are that aircraft over 5700kgs MAUW will be two crew - end of story. You can still obtain a Single pilot rating on annual recurrency at places like FSi, but the aircraft still needs a rated co-pilot when operated.
There is a way round this. P2 only requires a SiC rating, which is 3 take-offs and landings (one assymetric) as sole manipulator of the aircraft, plus training in aircraft systems and procedures (both emergency and normal). This can be signed off by any rated ATP, then submitted to the FAA for inclusion on your licence.


Thanks for the answer

Mooneyboy

[Miles Magister]

The last information I had on this subject is as follows, but I do stand to be corrected if someone knows better.

EASA do not have any responsibility for flight crew licensing therefore it is not an EASA issue but a JAA issue. EASA have responsibility for certification of types and, I believe have certified the 500/550/560 for single pilot operations. However they have called the types 501/551/561 when certifed for single pilot operations. Each individual airframe must have the single pilot EASA CofA and the pilot must have 501/551/561 on the license.

I do not know of any TREs that are currently certified to issue the single pilot type rating in the UK.

It is best to check with CAA training standards.

MM

[His dudeness]

The 501 was sold as "Citation ISP", SP meaning single pilot. This was a C500 airframe with a different AOM (and boommike, A/P), but same weights etc.
(501 was far 23, the C500 far 25)
Same story basically for the II:
The 551 is the Citation IISP and is essentially the same airframe, but MTOM was lowered from 13300lbs to 12500lbs. So was MZFM and MLM, but I don´t recall the figures.

Never came across a C561. C560 was always a 2 man crew a/c at least in germany. (in the US it is still SP AFAIK)

Before JAA the typerating was C500/501/550/551/560.
Now there is a CLASSRATING C501/C551 and a TYPERATING C500/550/560.

[BizJetJock]

To be pedantic, the 501 and 551 (and 525 series) are single pilot aeroplanes, all the rest (500, 550, 560) are two pilot aeroplanes. However, in the US the FAA will give you an exemption to fly these single pilot if you meet various experience and training requirements. In theory the exemption is registration specific, although I've never heard of this being checked. It is this exemption that is usually not recognised outside the US.
As an aside, JAA does not have any actual authority over licencing - that is still down to the individual NAA's. In theory they have all agreed to implement the JAA standards, but in practice none do so exactly although some are closer than others and have been listed as "JAA compliant". It is because of the failure to do as agreed that the politicians have started EASA to take over. Basically in trying to hang on to their empires the beaurocrats have managed to not only lose their battle but saddle us with another costly layer. Well done, chaps!!:mad:

[Mooneyboy]

To be pedantic, the 501 and 551 (and 525 series) are single pilot aeroplanes, all the rest (500, 550, 560) are two pilot aeroplanes. However, in the US the FAA will give you an exemption to fly these single pilot if you meet various experience and training requirements. In theory the exemption is registration specific, although I've never heard of this being checked. It is this exemption that is usually not recognised outside the US.
As an aside, JAA does not have any actual authority over licencing - that is still down to the individual NAA's. In theory they have all agreed to implement the JAA standards, but in practice none do so exactly although some are closer than others and have been listed as "JAA compliant". It is because of the failure to do as agreed that the politicians have started EASA to take over. Basically in trying to hang on to their empires the beaurocrats have managed to not only lose their battle but saddle us with another costly layer. Well done, chaps!!:mad:

Thanks for all this info/ I presume from this that SP is still legal in the C501SP AND C551 SP but not in the 500/550/560 in Europe?

[ssg]

Not surprising. Remember hearing about the now famous story of a Falcon landing in Paris, grounding the aircraft untill a type rated SIC could be flown over. So I can imagine Single Pilot Ops are frowned upon.

Surprised that JAA takes precident over ICAO, with the single pilot exemption being ok, but I gather that's Europe.

Europe is very small part of the flying world, not hard to bring an SIC for the few trips we might do there. Interesting lasting in Vancouver BC sometime back they were curious that I didn't have a copilot.

At present there are about 100 pilots who fly under the single pilot exemption. Most fly in crews, but keep thier exemption active, because it takes a real airplane checkride to reinstate, logisticaly easier to do in the sim every year.

As a single pilot operator of a Citation Ultra, I would imagine that Cessna is not happy with this new development in Europe.

Say what you will about single pilot ops, it's really cool to fly a jet all by yourself.

[His dudeness]

Well mooneyboy,
it was never possible to fly them SP COMMERCIALLY. To my knowledge, it is still legal to fly them (C525´s, C501,C551) SP IF private.
But just ask your authority - they definetely can tell !

[MineDog]

Hi,

Just a simlpe question about JAR and MAUW of 5700+.

If ALL aircraft over 5700kg MAUW are considered TWO crew, how explain the BE 1900 (MAUW 7500 kg) is in the list of Singe Pilot aircraft on the official JAA website?

Thanks for the info,
MD