Dual runway operations

[vfr800i]

Hi all

I've going to interview shortly and I'm trying to learn from my mistakes.

This is the second time round for me and last year in the technical interview I got asked where at Stansted would I put a second runway.

I know Heathrow has two runways that are side by side with the terminals and control tower between.

I can see that this is a good location for the VCR as it has the best view of both runways. Planes also have less distance to taxi to reach either runway and there is less/no need for taxiing across operation runways.

Where I know less is on the methods of utilisation, one runway for take off one for landing.

Can a plane take off at the same time a plane lands, if the landing plane conducts a missed approach will it then be in conflict with the departing plane.

In peak periods when more planes are arriving can both runways be used for arrivals, but here I can't see how two planes will fly side by side.

More feasable is during peak departure periods both runways can be used for departures as when they take off they can imediately turn for diverging courses allowing seperation.

Do the runways even have to be parrallel for optimal usage.

Very greatful for clarification and any issues which I didn't think off.

Regards,

Darren.

[TopBunk]

Darren

Try visiting the BAA website, Stansted section. Within those pages you will find a section on business plans or something similar. Within there is a pdf document (iirc) with the differing STN runway configuration options and discussing the pros and cons of each. Details terminal, taxiway and runway layouts.

HTH

[smellysnelly2004]

Vfr,

I'm coming up for interview second time around as well and I'm a little curious as to how your question about Stansted came up. Were you asked out of the blue or was it because you had been to Stansted tower?? I only ask because in mine, there was basically no questions about knowledge of that kind, it was all pretend scenarios to work through.

Good luck!!

[120.4]

Hi vfr880i
Restrictions on simultaneous operations on parallel runways depends on the spacing between the runways and this is a major factor to be considered when planning runway positions. The document best able to explain this is ICAO DOC 9643, otherwise known as the SOIR document.
Under ICAO rules, independent parallel approaches would be available at Heathrow if we provided a second final director and a separate monitoring controller to ensure safety in the event of wander. There would be environmetal implications to this because at present vertical separation would have to be maintained until within 10nm from touchdown; essentially this means that the environmetally friendly Continuous Descent Approaches would not be available. The possibility of increasing this range is currently being addressed to the regulator so that CDAs can be achieved.
Parallel departures are permitted when the initial departure tracks diverge by at least 15 degrees and are subsequently separated by radar.
Using each runway for arrivals and departures (mixed-mode) is under consideration for Heathrow now. The separation of missed approaches from previous departures is a significant issue but is resolved by enabling the Tower controller to turn the missed approach away from the initial departure track. This happens quite regularly at Gatwick, where the single runway enables significant turns to be made. At Heathrow there is less room for this because of the other runway but it is still possible. The third runway makes it even more interesting!
1035m is the minimum separation needed if independent parallel approaches are to be made, 915m for dependent parallel approaches (2nm staggered).
Hope that is useful, come back to me if you need more.
Kind regards
Point 4:)

P.S. During your interview don't call them planes, it comes across as slightly unprofessional, call them aircraft

[Married a Canadian]

In Toronto where there are two sets of parallels

33L/15R 33R/15L

23/05 24R/06L 24L/06R

arrival aircraft don't need to be staggered if they are on a visual approach....ie you can run them in side by side. It does also help if they are visual with each other. It looks worse on radar than it does in reality.

As 120.4 says though the rules do depend on the distance between runways. If the weather does not allow visual approaches you have to stagger aircraft on the approaches...OR use an ILS monitor to ensure aircraft don't wander off the approach.

The most common operation in YYZ is dualling...Land/Depart 23/24R 05/06L

Those runways are greater than 9600 ft apart so the stagger (if not visual) is 2.5nms according to the Manops.
If the stagger is not possible due to volume of traffic all you do is establish aircraft on their respective localisers with vertical separation and then switch to ILS monitor. It allows for a lot of traffic to be shifted!!

[Gonzo]

P.S. During your interview don't call them planes, it comes across as slightly unprofessional, call them aircraft

If one wants to impress this interviewer, call them aeroplanes.:ok:

[Jerricho]

If you really want to impress, refer to them as "those stoopid pilots" ;) :E :ouch:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Forgive me for introducing possible thread drift but you lads may have a useful contribution to make on Tech Log, topic; Runway Heading (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=232583). When you see that discussion, you may see some relevance to the discussion here. Parallel runway operations are reliant, somewhat, on parallel extended centrelines and the way the aeroplanes fly them. The aeroplane drivers are expressing some interesting interpretations.

[av8boy]

We've sent you Chilli Monster. He knows things. Anything else we can help you with?

:8

[vfr800i]

Thanks guys.

TopBunk - Good stuff, found out all about Stansted's masterplans and also Heathrow's intended 3rd runway which I'll swot up on before I visit them.

Smelly, I had visited Stansted so that's why the question had come up I guess. My other question was why are computer systems good for ATC which brought up issues of re-training older controllers and not having bandwidth to take them off active duty for training at a busy airport.

120.4/MaCND thanks, a lot to go on and research further. Re missed approach at gatwick, is it important because an aeroplane can take off just before one lands so a missed approach would place the landing aeroplane right up his a*se?

plane/aircraft/aeroplane.... I guess Aircraft refers to everything including gliders, balloons, microlights and "planes" so correctly they should be refered to as aeroplanes.

GBZ, stop drifting my thread ;)

Thanks all,

Darren.

[120.4]

The Gatwick type scenario is often refered to as a "Piggyback missed approach". In theory in the UK the arrival should not cross the threshold until the previous departure is at least 2000m down the runway (if airborne, 2500m if not) but when under pressure to move the traffic errors do occur. The worst I ever saw invloved a B747 rolling and a DC10 going around .5nm behind it; it went straight down Crawley High Street and the phone lit up.

The missed approach is more likely to outperform the departure and so that is normally the one you turn; 90 degrees is ideal, 45 is probably the minimum.

Simultaneous Parallel departures are not permitted under ICAO unless the initial departure tracks diverge by 15 degrees immediately after take off.

Best of luck.

Point 4

[cossack]

Simultaneous Parallel departures are not permitted under ICAO unless the initial departure tracks diverge by 15 degrees immediately after take off.
...unless you get a waiver to use 10 degrees for noise abatement :rolleyes: The runways are about 2 miles apart.
The Manchester layout with runways staggered by a mile was designed to conform to the SOIR rules.
Runways on this side of the ocean are often not staggered at all (PHL excepted) and in VFR weather conditions (3SM+/>1000ft) takeoffs and landings occur side by side on runways that are 1000 feet apart centreline to centreline. Any missed approaches will be separated from departures visually and turned at least 30 degrees, but usually more. Departures would not be turned toward the arrival runway (other than what is published in the SID) until the controller determines there will be no conflict in the event of a missed approach. (EWR 22R departures turn left immediately about 30 degrees toward 22L then turn right again shortly after)
In IFR weather, the departure must be rolling before the arrival is 2 miles from touchdown or wait until it has landed. Separation in the event of a missed approach would still be a turn of the arriving aircraft to achieve 3 miles in less than a minute.