Uniform at UK airports

[Phil_R]

Hi,

Thanks for the info. It's gratefully received, because there really is so little reference about the modern RAF. If I was writing about the modern USAF, there's a thousand books I could buy; but with our guys, it's almost imposssible to find anything that isn't WW2. I've read John Nichol and Michael Armitage, that seems to be about it, so I'm rather relying on the accuracy of "Team Tornado"!

The two main scenes we've engineered our character into "the itchy blue suit", as one actress put it, are a funeral and going to see a very senior officer, so I'm hoping that's OK - although this thread has already told me that uniform isn't worn at the MOD HQ, so I may have to change the location.

There's so much I could ask (What does NAAFI stand for?) but I don't want to be a pain, since I'm an unrepentant civvie - does anyone have an objection if I start up a thread to discuss this?

Regards,

Phil

[Rev I. Tin]

Ask away fella.

NAAFI (http://www.naafi.co.uk/)

Navy, Army and AirForce Institutes
Official trading organisation of HM Forces, providing retail and leisure services to the services (although the 'leisure' is primarily for Junior Ranks, seniors and officers enjoying the Mess)

Try HQ Strike Command at High Wycombe for very senior officer.

[Comp Charlie]

CC: As a new member, but an ex RAF/Civie Pilot, I am appalled that you and your fellow service personnel feel the above to be the case.
No, no no! You misinterpreted my post(s). I'm just an monkey, not an organ grinder...

These decisions are made waaaay above my rank and status. I would love nothing more than to proudly wear my uniform when and where I see fit, however this is not the case.

Worst case scenario - terrorist 'dicks' you as serviceman. Plants IED in or around your motor vehicle (for instance), goes off and ends up taking out innocent woman and 2 kids out shopping.

These are the kind of things 'civvies' are afraid of I'd reckon. Therefore, do we not have a duty of care to the civilian population to NOT compromise them, just because we fancy walking round Sainsburys/ Gatwick airport in Combat 95 uniform?

I would love for us to go back to the day and age when I could lob a kitbag on my back and thumb a lift home on the M4. But it isn't going to happen. Unfortunately.

CC

[Chugalug2]

These are the kind of things 'civvies' are afraid of I'd reckon. Therefore, do we not have a duty of care to the civilian population to NOT compromise them, just because we fancy walking round Sainsburys/ Gatwick airport in Combat 95 uniform?. CC

CC It is your assumption that we civvies want to avoid you guys like the plague because of all sorts of theoretical scenarios and bad Karma that you bring with you that I challenge. The silent majority in this country would, I am sure, be proud to see you in uniform in "our world", instead of merely on our TVs. The change in policy made in the late 60s to travel in Civvies may or may not have saved lives over the years, who knows? One thing is for sure is that it has succeeded in turning the military from a familiar family in which Uncles, Brothers, Sons (and these days of course all the appropriate female equivalents) and neighbours served, to an alien and remote bunch of people who are never seen other than on the evening news. If you don't want to travel in uniform because of perceived security risks, fine, I respect that. But as potential target myself I'll take my chances, as we all do these days, and be glad to see you guys and girls in our midst (though where this idea came from that endless rounds of beers should be involved, I'm not clear!).

[1859sqn]

Not so sure about the "late 60's" I used to thumb lifts home from Benson and then Odiham from '69 until the end of '72 when I paid my £200 to "Pass Go." btw Around 90% of the people (including unaccompanied females) who stopped for me said that they would NEVER usually stop for hitchhikers............ :hmm:

[Hammer Head Too]

Joined up in 75, got bo££ocked in 79 as a Sqn Ldr picked me on the A1 as I was hitch hiking in uniform. I remember him saying it was an air ranking officer had made the decision "no uniform off camp, in pubs etc" because of the PIRA threat. Fair do's but it was taken to the enth degree at some camps whilst being totally ignored at others. Our standing in the community has since withered and the military has become something to hide away and be slightly embarrassed about.......huge shame
HH2

[Phil_R]

Hi,

I don't think anyone's embarrassed of the military. If people give you a second glance in public, my first reaction would be that it's so incredibly unusual.

I've seen military - I always presumed army - vehicles on the road, but not much more.

Anything that unusual has a mystique all of its own, but especially when it's such a way-of-life-defining issue as being in the military. Part of the PR (and recruitment) problem may well be that most people's experience of it begins and ends with "Full Metal Jacket", and they're fully convinced that you all put up with that sort of thing as a matter of daily routine. At 17 and 21 that misconception certainly put me off pursuing the otherwise attractive prospect of the pointy, fast things.

So it's probably not embarrassment or fear most of the time, it's curiosity.

Phil

[Pontius Navigator]

One give away early on with the no uniforms rule was luggage.

Navy had very smart pussers issue suitcase straight out of 'ello 'ello'. Air Force had very smart (joke), very large navy blue holdall. Aircrew had very smart, leather trimmed, navy blue holdall. The rules stripulated that you carried your flying kit so it was not an unusual sight on British Rail.

Anyway, about 1972, there was a rail go-slow and I was to attend a course at Scampton. Got as far as Nottingham and the trains stopped. I buggled up the SDO at Newton and a waggon picked me up in about 20 minutes. Also looking lost was a 'civvie' with said holdall. Now he could have been going to any RAF Lincolnshire base but, as it happened, he was also bound for Scampton.

Got to Newton, dropped airman off at the guardroom - see you tomorrow - and off to the mess where I was met by the staish.

He apologised that he could not let MT run me to Scampton but had got Scampton MT to pick us both up 0830 AM.

Now without the visual clue he was an airman that man would have been in
sh1t one way or the other. Either sleeping rough, hitching, dossing, late or out of pocket.

Mind you, if you know, there are still signs. At Heathrow I saw four men collecting 'tickets on departure' which is one sign. Their appearance was another. They were almost identikit alike and I am 100% certain they were army and at least 50% sure what regiment.

[Cumbrian Fell]

Today might not be a good day to wear uniform at a UK airport....as you'll probably be roped in to root through people's handluggage and, er, smalls. Of course, if you wish to combine a hobby with a career, go ahead!

[TMJ]

The two main scenes we've engineered our character into "the itchy blue suit", as one actress put it, are a funeral and going to see a very senior officer, so I'm hoping that's OK - although this thread has already told me that uniform isn't worn at the MOD HQ, so I may have to change the location.


Weddings are another opportunity; you could even get away with her wearing a sword there. Of course for accuracy you'd need the members of the Guard of Honour desperately conferring to remember bits of drill they've not had to do since Cranwell before the kickoff (at least if my experience is any guide)...
Other occassions I've worn 1s:
Battle of Britain Cocktail Party - in the Officers' Mess, all attending Service personnel in 1s.
Remembrance Day parade; if she's alone any Remembrance Day service
An uncommon one was a prizegiving for the Schools' Aerospace Challenge, a nationwide competition the Air Force sponsored and the prizes of which were given out by CAS; probably quite hard to work in!


Other occasions one might wear 1s: Royal garden parties, launch of one of HM's ships, courts martial.

[Comp Charlie]

Chugalug2, I respect your opinion naturally, but without this next bit being taken out of context, you are looking at it through the eyes of (I would suspect) a British white male.

*Now the controversial bit* London airports (especially LHR) are frequently populated by people who do not fit this description. Before anyone screams 'racist' at me, I can assure you this couldn't be further from the truth.

Of course I am NOT generalising that every Asian/ African/ Indian etc is an extremist or a terrorist. But it only takes one who fancies a pop at an 'opportunist' target.

With the events at LHR today (and the subsequent fallout from this) and the repercussions around ALL UK airports I would suggest that the 'no-uniform' policy at UK airports is, in fact, a sensible and prudent measure.

I work at Heathrow. I will be more knowledgable on todays events by tomorrow afternoon...

CC

[scroggs]

I work at Heathrow. I will be more knowledgable on todays events by tomorrow afternoon...

CC

So do I. So will I. When it is revealed that the threat to which we are currently reacting was in fact against military personnel in uniform, I will agree with you. If, as I suspect, the threat is shown to be against the general concept of 'Great Britain' and its allied policies with the USA, I will have to conclude that the 'no uniform' policy is entirely specious.

[dwhcomputers]

CC
Why therefore do the Americans not ban their service personnel from wearing uniforms at airports? Should I therefore advise my nephew who is a football fan not to attend any more matches as Stadiums are an easy target or close down the Tube in case of any more bombs. If we go on like this lets lock the door on UK Ltd and all go on home

[Comp Charlie]

I think if you look back a few pages my thoughts on this policy are well documented, and therefore I feel no need to expand further at this time.

CC

[DESPERADO]

The events of today have not changed my opinion one jot. I respect the views expressed by everyone here, especially those that work at the airports, and I am glad that I was able to start a polite and lively debate. If I were allowed I would happily wear my uniform at an airport/train station etc etc. I proudly wear my uniform in public whenever there is an opportunity but I won't go against the spirit of the rules that are currently in place. I just think that it is a shame that our lords and masters are not promoting the service more by encouraging more unforms in public.

It was interesting that the wearing of uniforms and marching by service personnel a gay pride marches is actively encouraged and officially sanctioned - clearly the 2 things are not the same but the gay pride marches smack of politics rather than a desire to be inclusive (perhaps this is a can of worms that I shouldn't be opening.

We need to stand up and be counted. The country is a war - perhaps now on 3 fronts - perhaps someone in military uniform at an airport/train station might actually discourage a prospective terrorist, I certainly don't see why it is likely to encourage them any more than they are already. It is time that we stopped hiding and stood out from the crowd.

[Comp Charlie]

Hear hear...:D

Fancy expressing those views to the powers that be?

Addresses aren't too hard to dig out for those that control 'Passenger Policy'

CC

[Chugalug2]

Hear hear...:D

Fancy expressing those views to the powers that be?

Addresses aren't too hard to dig out for those that control 'Passenger Policy'

CC

CC: as no-one else has taken you up on your offer, may I? I came out (perhaps I should rephrase that!) in 1973, so have no idea how to go about that, but am willing to try, so would appreciate guidance. The civvie route would be via my MP who would no doubt forward on my suggestion to an MOD apparatchic who would thank me for my interest and assure me that these matters are under constant review but for obvious reasons that I would appreciate no details of present or possible future policy can be revealed! On second thoughts don't bother, I think I've just received the reply from whoever I approach. If your superiors don't take advice from the people at the sharp end like yourself then that is a reflection on them, and on the organisation, and on the service. You end up with pilots forced to fly in tight dangerous formations and who get shot down like china ducks by an opposition that has learned to fly differently. Seems to me that we are back to those days in so many ways, but that is probably non PC in any thread so I'll shut up!

[Barely Restrained]

greycoat

Its quite a nice tale of what one family experienced at Sea World in terms of the tribute to all servicemen and women. I wish i had been there. Does anyone know if they still do this?? I also had problems with the first link to the ad. There is a good link on this page.

Not only do they still do this, Tigs, but this year (at Seaworld in San Diego) they single out British servicemen! Last year, they asked for all US military personnel to stand, then members of other military allies in Iraq (sit down you Frenchies!!). This year it is US military, British military and, finally, all other allies in Iraq.

On the subject of wearing uniform in public, a colleague of mine had to fly in uniform within the States, recently. Just before the flight departed, the captain drew attention to his presence on the aircraft and thanked him for his service - to which a spontaneous round of applause broke out.

And finally, a bunch of British and US military colleagues and I were eating in an American restaurant recently and, because we were guests of the Americans and it was semi-formal, we were in uniform. A diner at the restaurant paid for all of our meals and left, without saying anything to us, but simply asked the waitress to pass on his appreciation for our service.

Sadly we will never see anything similar in the UK. Whilst we can be a bit cynical about the American attitude to their military, they do have a genuine respect for them. That said, the average American serviceman does have a genuine respect for his uniform, which I would argue that their British counterpart probably doesn't (of course, I would further argue that that is because he is encouraged not to!). The average civvy's encounter with a serviceman is probably limited to watching some impressive vomiting/fighting on a Saturday night in a Garrison Town! ;)

[BEagle]

'Itchy blue suit' - worn for parades, weddings and bollockings. Oh - and officer-under-instruction at court martials. Or as a member, if you're really unlucky. Plus for the Bobbers CockersP.

Incidentally, NAAFI actually stands for 'No Ambition And F*ck-all Interest'!

[C130 Techie]

I was at Seaworld in San Diego last week on holiday, admission is still free and they still do the tribute to the services. They specifically asked for members of the US and UK forces to stand and make themselves known.

A big thank you to the US Navy on Coronado who helped us out of a tight spot by finding us a new hotel at short notice on a Friday Evening.

An also thanks to the USO facility at San Francisco Airport who made our 11 hour stay at the airport a much more pleasurable experience than it would otherwise have been.

[MercenaryAli]

Since this sorry excuse for a government exists purely on smoke, mirrors and political correctness I guess this is just another example thereof!
I look forwad to the revolution! :E