NORWICH

[aeulad]

BE are launching NWI-MAN twice daily, NWI-CDG daily and increasing their NWI-EDI route by adding a third flight on Mondays, Thursdays and Fridays.

They are really going for Eastern here!

[GoEDI]

It's funny you should say that, because the day after BE increase the EDI-NWI frequency (16th March)- and I was only aware of it going to 2x daily!-, Eastern are dropping it! (17th March)
Co-incidence? Doubt it.

[Hudson Bay]

I think you will find that Flybe need Easterns Pilots. There are 4 Captains that are leaving Eastern and joining Flybe in the next few months. It's a dirty game isn't it?

[jamesbrownontheroad]

Are these NWI based captains who are crossing to the dark side?

[NickBarnes]

I have heard that there maybe a new airline coming to Norwich and just wondered if anybody else has heard or knows who it might be:)

[niknak]

It'll be here or in the Eastern Daily Press before we know!:p

[qwertyuiop]

They may have an M on the fin.

[jongeman]

It's gotta be Mandarin Airlines from Taipei to Norwich?

[NickBarnes]

yep that must be it:) well was just wondering.

[airhumberside]

Monarch to Malaga in competition with Flybe?

[bacardi walla]

Are there any private operators based at NWI ? The airport website is geared more towards commecial operations rather than corporate. Links or info would be appreciated. PM me as necessary. Thanks :ok:

[WOWBOY]

I haerd that Ryanair were looking at a Dublin service from Norwich - any truth in this?

I was wondering if the BRS and EXT services are looking to go 2xdaily anytime soon?

Also how is the Glasgow service doing as out of all the BE NWI routes Glasgow is the one you here little about?

I personally see NWI becoming quite a busy airport in times to come, it has some nice steady growth - which is good.

[aeulad]

When I spoke to groundstaff at GLA last winter they said that NWi had done well in the summer but that the winter loads were not too encouraging. The route has had time to grow and I'm sure it is supporting itself pretty well. Maybe a second rotation in the next 18 months or so hopefully.

[WOWBOY]

aeulad and MerchantVenturer thank's for the information. Good to see GLA, EXT and BRS all doing well.

I would love to see a service to PLH but i would be uncertain about if it will preform good. Maybe a 3x weekly service :}
Newquay will be a good destination from Norwich IMO, It will know doubt succed. We will just have to see what develops :}

[NickBarnes]

Ryanair was the airline i heard which might want to do the NWI-DUB service but they said they did not want to come to norwich

[NickBarnes]

I keep hearing that Ryanair maybe looking at a dublin service from NWI so maybe RYR will come to NWI after all!

[Richard Taylor]

Any sign of Flybe returning to NWI-ABZ, the route it announced last year but didn't start this year?

[bacardi walla]

Are there any private operators based at NWI ? The airport website is geared more towards commercial operations rather than corporate. Links or info would be appreciated. PM me as necessary. Thanks

[GBALU53]

Has the EMB195 visited yet it was due on Friday from Jersey but when on finals at Jersey it diverted to Exeter tech does any one have an update on the visit.:sad:

I understand before it can come into service it would have visited all the airports it will be operating to and from.:{

[NickBarnes]

Any sign of Flybe returning to NWI-ABZ, the route it announced last year but didn't start this year?

They have said there intention to start that service soon, possibly next summer when they realease there summer 07 schedule in November

[GBALU53]

Now Flybe has released more of the summer timetable the Channel Islands are almost wiped away, the only flight is to Jersey on a Saturday.

Did these routes not peform as expected??

With Jersey having a Stansted connection did this have a possible effect for the route to Jersey being cut down in size??

Jersey has always been a difficult area going back to the good old days Air Anglia operated two Fokker Friendships down first thing on a Saturday in the summer and return late afernoon.

The market has always been Saturday one or two week holiday type traffic for the last forty plus years.

More to the point could it be they need the aircraft for new routes to try??

[NickBarnes]

Well i would hope they release more flights to Jesey next summer from NWI because the load factors for July 06 were around 80%,so i can't see why they would cut it back.

But they might be trying new routes, they wanted to do Frankfurt, Bergerac and limoges.

But theres room at NWI for them to base another 2 aircraft.

just have to wait untill they finally release full summer 07 schedule which is coming out within the next 2 weeks

[NickBarnes]

Looks like Norwich Are trying to get a new airline in for the Alicante and Malaga routes

http://www.uk-airport-news.info/norwich-airport-news-010807.htm

dunno who they could be?

looks like Flybe may lose out because i can see 2 airlines operating it not even in the summer

[FlyerFoto]

Speaking of NWI - I flew from there to AMS a few weeks ago.

I thought I'd take advantage of the KLM online check-in service - using it was no problem, but at the airport, neither the woman at the desk before security, nor the girls at the gate had seen one before and didn't know what to do - especially at the gate, because there wasn't at 'tear-off' section of the boarding card!

You would certainly think that, in these times of heightened security, staff would be fully briefed on new paperwork?

[Keyvon]

flybe will suspend its own flights from NWI to both ALC and AGP during the winter schedule. hope they'll come back for next summer, at least.
perhaps someone else could step in to take over these two services to the spanish costa ?

[NickBarnes]

Was just looking at CAA stats in August and came up with these for for Norwichs Scheduled services

Total Ave.Pax LF
Aberdeen 5761 25 50%
Edinburgh 5710 51 66%
Exeter 3512 57 73% well done Flybe!!
Glasgow 3335 54 69%
Jersey/Guernsey 3429 56 71%
Manchester 3868 35 44%
Paris 2540 43 56%
Dublin 3581 59 75% well done Flybe!!
Amsterdam 14071 48 68%
Alicante 2699 96 81%
Malaga 1638 91 77%

Manchester seems to be the worst route with just 44% Load Factor but in other months Manchester seems to get over 4000pax, and when i flew back to Norwich last night there were 55 people on board, so it doesn't seem to be doing to bad to me.

Exeter and Dublin seem to be doing very well along with Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Jersey/ Guernsey

Most routes are down 2-3% on last year, so the new ADF doesn't seem to have done to much to passenger figures so Flybe can't complain:ok:

[jongeman]

Re MAN-NWI.....August is a pretty quiet month when it comes to business traffic; the route is suited to something a little smaller than a Q400.

[niknak]

Beware of statistics!

NWI - MAN may seem to be an underperforming route, but it is also one of the most expensive out of NWI as Flybe know that it's almost exclusively used by the business user, I've absolutely no doubt that they're making as much money from that route as any other.

[ADC2604]

I was surprised at the pax numbers on the EXT-NWI when first reading them - I didn't realise there were so many people wanting to commute between the two.

[NickBarnes]

i was too when i saw that come out at 57, when i did i again it was the same!

perhaps it should go twice daily on week days for the summer season?

should also say the NWI - EXT in July had ave PAX of 56 and 71% load factor.

also there were passenger increases from last year on that route 4% in July and 9% in August.

altough it's going down to 4 weekly this winter:confused:

[EGCC Rwy 24]

Just had my sister on the phone. She was passing Norwich airport earlier today and saw lots of fire engines, ambulances etc.
Probably nothing of course, but she is asking what was going on.
Clues?

[rvsm compliant]

It was an emergency exercise involving all 3 services and the hospital

[cornishsimon]

:D
always handy and great fun for those of us who work in one of the services!!
raf used to do a brilliant one prior to the st mawgan air day at NQY
very realistic and very good training for all involved

[Red Four]

http://www.uk-airport-news.info/norwich-airport-news-090208.htm

Please excuse the external link.

[Red Eyed Dog]

While you might have to wonder about Flybe signing up to such an agreement, it is hard to believe that a small provincial UK airport like NWI with a less than exemplary record in fostering their commercial aviation development, would really go down this route to screw the only airline that is interested in trying to make a real go of operating 'from the back of beyond' !
A few years ago I used to fly for a small company which was also forced out of NWI operations by this sort of stupidity ... do NWI want to develop or don't they ?

Please read this BBC news link ...

Flybe and Norwich Airport agreement (BBC news) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/7321306.stm)

[Donkey497]

I might be being cynical, but how much would you get if you flattened NWI and planted high density housing?:eek:

[The Member]

Red Eyed Dog I think you are wrong to place 100% of the blame at NWI's feet.

I have negotiated many deals similar to the FlyBe/NWI one with my airline hat on and these deals are nearly always done on throughput of passengers through the airport. FlyBe agreed to this contractactual agreement so they knew what they were letting themselves into. I have been on the end of a contractual agreement with them on a JEY flight which was so severely delayed I could not make my meeting in JEY. FlyBe held me to my contract and did not allow me a refund. What is good for the goose etc etc.
FlyBe would have received in excess of a £280K rebate for operating the DUB route on basis of an agreed passenger throughput which they were in danger of not meeting. Personally I think FlyBe should have offered rebated seats earlier than they did rather than make a high profile onslaught against NWI at the last knockings of the agreed period.
That said for the sake of less than 200 passengers to reach the cut off figure the NWI airport management are not doing the airfield owners any favours.

[wings folded]

Could the missing 200 or so passengers have been put off by having to pay a £3 fine to use NWI? Or am I just being a cynical old fart as usual?

[Doors to Automatic]

These sorts of deals are the mainstay of airline/airport business these days.

The days of airports making their money out of landing fees and a healthy (£10-15) amount per passenger on top are long gone. These days a typical deal will be £2-3 per passenger (less if it is Ryanair) and no landing fees.

In return the airline pledges to bring in many more passengers, which the airport knows will spend an average of £x on parking/food/shopping etc thereby making up the shortfall.

If the airline fails to bring in the passengers it is only fair that the airport is compensated, which is why penalties are often brought into the contract.

Flybe has been operating out of NWI for 3 years so it is not as if the airport has hammered them in the first difficult months of the operation.

I know the airport MD at Norwich personally. He is one of the nicest and most honest people I have met in the industry and certainly not someone who would take unfair advantage of another party.

In my opinion it is unfair to lay the blame with the airport for this.

[Red Eyed Dog]

Donkey497 : so often cynicism edges fairly close to truth.

The Member : a superbly balanced point of view. Indeed it probably is a little unfair of me to implicate NWI Airport as 100% villains of the piece but they do have a 'history'.

Wings folded : Oh that £3 ! ... well, what more can be said, probably best to just not go there ;)

cheers, Red Eyed Dog

[Cyclone733]

Sounds like there was at least an attempt to reach a compromise between the two:

http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=News&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED30%20Mar%202008%2010%3A25%3A11%3A687

Assuming the figures are correct in the article, I doubt those extra 172 pax would have been worth £140,000 to the airport.

[wings folded]

Don't have the advantage of knowing the MD of NWI, which Doors to Automatic has, and therefore have no reason to disagree with him. I am sure he is a thoroughly decent chap. He probably has, however, to satisfy evil accountants whose long term vision does not quite extend to envisaging that Flybe might just decide that it is too much hard work, and sod Norwich. What good would that do for Norfolk travellers? NWI used to be owned by a consortium of local and county public authorities - not perhaps the most dynamic of a team, and not especially clued up on aviation, but I am starting to sound like a nostalgic as well as cynical old fart in wishing a return to those days.

[What`s a hold?]

Hang on a second, flybe were short by 172 pax, they paid or offered free flights to people to try and meet that target or faced a big fine? Hope I'm not missing too much here but smart move and well done flybe:D! I think the last laugh has been on the NWI airport managers:{. £3 to pass through the airport where has that money gone and do they know exactly what they are going to do with it? There is a good catchment of passengers who would use the airport but with probably the highest airport tax in the country Stansted seems like a well worth journey. Wake up NWI or me thinks job cuts on the way at the airport.:(

[Phil Space]

I have to say I like using Norwich to fly long distance.( AMS )
However I object to the surcharge.
Norwich is on the road to nowhere.

FlyBe are in a strong position.

The managers have to climb down or lose the traffic to Stansted:D

[cwatters]

> £3 to pass through the airport where has that money gone and do they
> know exactly what they are going to do with it?

Part new tower as part of an £18m package announced a year ago...

http://www.uk-airport-news.info/norwich-airport-news-190308.htm

"New Norwich Airport control tower opens
19.03.08

£400,000 upgrade of part of an air traffic control tower is set to open at Norwich Airport. The tower gains a new weather reporting systems and radar screens, as well as a modern communications system"

[ted baker]

I have a suggestion for the usage of the £3 fine.

Give it to the refuellers as an incentive to stay on duty until the airport closes. NWI-MAN cancelled on 3rd March as Flybe's replacement aircraft which landed at 21:30 (flight delayed till then as earlier A/C had gone tech) because they couldn't get hold of the fuellers, dspite the AD being open until 22:15. :mad:

Yes, I am aware prior notice is required after 1930(local) and perhaps Flybe were at fault here for not informing them but still not something you'd expect at an 'INTERNATIONAL' airport...... :rolleyes:

[Phil Space]

If FlyBe pull out there are in the sh@@. Only KLM are there and they have them by the b@@ls.

\\\\\\\remote airport in the middle of nowhere.

[ORAC]

Other side of the story: Norwich Airport lost £500,000 last year (http://www.norwich-airport.info/norwich-airport-news-191107.htm)

[01475]

For the airport to start going whinging about the environment in these circumstances is one of the most pathetic things I have ever heard... or do they want to be a Sheffield City Airport?

[Wellington Bomber]

Phil Space

Sorry to contradict you but Eastern are there are also with a Saab 2000 which operates to ABerdeen and a twice weekly charter to Groningen, and before Flybe entrenched into Norwich Eastern also operated to Edinburgh

[airhumberside]

And NWI-MAN

Dont forget bmi regional. ABZ-NWI is still around

[01475]

There is plenty of doubt, as has been expressed here!

So... if you were flyBE, what would you have done? Manufactured 172 pax or paid NWI £280k?

And what did NWI achieve by "Standing up to them"? Specifically, in these circumstances, what is the difference between "standing up to them" and "throwing their toys out the pram in a huff at losing £280k"

[Richard Taylor]

Aren't both parties at fault here?

NWI at fault for offering such a strange deal on the face of it (targets are all very well, but how can you guarantee "x" no. of passengers will fly a particular route in a given timeframe?). And Flybe at fault for agreeing to it & thus risking a fine!

OK, you can FORECAST your passengers for the year ahead, but that's all it will EVER be - a forecast, NOT a guarantee.

[Drink Up Thee Cider]

nicnak, you said "There's no doubt that this complete and utter madness must be laid fair and square at the Flybe door".

Not sure what hallucenagenics you're on but if its true that BE have flown 136k over the last year, as opposed to the 70 k they were contracted to fly, its got to be a brave MD at NWI that goes on the telly to criticise his biggest customer. And an even braver MD that reports to his Board that he's turned down a no-strings attached £50k and preferred instead to try and play the eco-warrior with the media - the cretin runs an airport, not an organic asparagus farm!

[What`s a hold?]

I can't see how flybe are in the wrong here.:confused: They met their target, flew more passengers than they agreed to with the airport by nearly 100% but were falling short until tonight on one route. Airport gets more passengers, flybe don't get fined approx £250k. Wake up NWI.:ugh: Think it all comes down to money which Nwi sound like they are desperate for and probably gutted more than anything that a huge amount may slip by. Think every airline would do the same as flybe:D. I hope flybe stay cause I and lots off my friends use them a lot and hope they introduce some more routes:ok:, Eastern and BMIregional will are too expensive and will bring numbers of passengers down more:(.

[nickmanl]

Sorry to reiterate the point but I cannot believe the NWI management has used the environment card, the saying those who live in greenhouses musn't throw stones is very apt here one thinks!

How some people on here can only blame flyBe is utter madness. I don't see what they have actually done wrong?:ugh:

[Phileas Fogg]

The MD of FlyBE is very familiar with the ways of NWI, he is ex Air UK.

I'm sure when FlyBE signed such an agreement they had already figured out that they could give tickets away to make up the numbers, if NWI couldn't see such a loophole in the agreement well that's 'hard cheese'.

Good on FlyBE, I, and many of you, would have done exactly the same thing ourselves :)

[airhumberside]

TOM Summer 2009 looking like

Corfu – TOM – Tuesdays
Gran Canaria – AEA – Mondays
Ibiza – TOM – Saturdays
Lanzarote-LTE-Thursdays
Malta-KM-Tuesdays
Menorca-TOM-Monday
Palma – AEA Tuesday and Sunday, TOM Thursday
Paphos-ECA-Wednesday
Tenerife-AEA-Tuesdays

Doesnt appear to be any change from Summer 2008

[NickBarnes]

yeh just the same except an extra flight to Palma in 2009 :ok:

[airhumberside]

I think that extra Palma is a current First Choice only flight that Thomson will now share on

[NickBarnes]

Oh yeh looks like it is :)

[John Blakeley]

For convenience I would use NWI every time, and it is a great airport to fly from and to, but the price of such convenience is now so high that I have to look at the Stansted and Luton options - also for their greater range of destinations and numbers of flights. If I was taking a family, say two adults and two children, then for many direct flights I would find NWI unaffordable - and that is without the outrageous additional £3.00 development fee (ADF).

To take an example off the web at today's fares - NWI to CDG on 15 June and returning on 22 June for a family of four - not counting baggage, car parking, environmental offset, speedy boarding and all the other extras. FlyBe from NWI (only one flight) comes to a grand total of £692.84, of which £263.48 is shown as airport charges and taxes. Easyjet from Luton (picking the cheapest flight options) comes to £222.32 of which £122.00 is airport charges and taxes. The Government taxes and CDG are common to both so discounting the airlines fare differences it would appear that NWI is around £140 more expensive for airport operator charges (to which you add the ADF) - is this really the case? If so I suggest that NWI really is trying to price itself out of the market. The difference of nearly £430 for a family of four more than pays the extra fuel cost and driving time to Luton for most people in the NWI catchment area.

Lest you think I have picked the worst example and dates this route and these dates were the only ones that I looked at - these days the choice is anyway very limited. I recognise that some comparisons would be better (or possibly worse) in terms of airline fares, but, presumably, not in terms of taxes and airport charges. I am willing to pay a reasonable premium for the convenience of NWI, and I would love to see the route structure being expanded - but at the moment the opposite is happening and the NWI management seems to be doing little about it - especially in terms of affordability and value for money!

JB

[aidoair]

A new route to Alicante and possibly other new destinations is to be officially announced on Friday.
The airline operating the new services has not been announced as yet but i think the most obvious airline will be Ryanair either operated by one of their based aircraft or even on a W flight from STN. Anyone any other thoughts?

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/news/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=News&tBrand=ENOnline&tCategory=News&itemid=NOED22%20Apr%202008%2008%3A27%3A40%3A007

[ara01jbb]

A new route to Alicante and possibly other new destinations is to be officially announced on Friday

...

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/conte...A27%3A40%3A007 (http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/news/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=News&tBrand=ENOnline&tCategory=News&itemid=NOED22%20Apr%202008%2008%3A27%3A40%3A007)

From that article:

Mr Jenner said: "The formal launch will happen on Friday, but I can confirm our announcement will definitely include new flights to Alicante. ..."

More than one destination methinks? I just hope this is a sustainable business decision, not a knee jerk reaction to get back at BE that will last a season and then evaporate into thin air.

[aeulad]

LTE

Regards

Mike

[aidoair]

I was thinking a Spanish carrier but could't think of one that would be able to operate a service on a regualr basis other than a weekly charter service perhaps. Do you have any more knowledge on the frequency or best we wait until Friday...

[NickBarnes]

yep i believe it is LTE, altough ryanair would be good:ok:, and Norwich has a new website!!

[NickBarnes]

LTE have uploaded the flights to their website from Norwich - Alicante, it will operate Saturdays from the 5th July, the times are,
Norwich - Alicante
10:25 - 13:55
Alicante - Norwich
14:40 - 16:10
Flights are around £70 one way or £140 return.

Also there are flights from Norwich - Barcelona, again starting from the 5th July and will operate Saturdays, times are,
Norwich - Barcelona
17:25 - 20:50
Barcelona - Norwich
21:50 - 23:15
Fares start at around £70 one way or £140 return.

Looking at it those prices they seem very good because when i looked at Ryanairs website from STN - ALC departing on the 5th and returning on the 12th the price was £181:ooh:

[pug]

That is a big coup for NWI! Wish all concerned well..

[airhumberside]

Those times indicate an aircraft positioning into NWI. So I would expect either a retime (maybe do a BCN-NWI-ALC-NWI-BCN since BCN is a LTE base) or another route

[NickBarnes]

Should think that it would be another route which comes in on the Sat morning and then leaves back on the Sunday morning possibly.

i think i might be booking my summer holiday soon:ok:

Hope these routes do well!!!!!

[NickBarnes]

And there will be another new route with LTE, you will also be able to fly from Norwich - Palma once a week at the weekend.

these flights will operate year round as well:ok:

http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=NewsSplash&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=News&itemid=NOED24%20Apr%202008%2021%3A18%3A07%3A687

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

This just in about the dear old place from Auntie...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/7364854.stm

May we expect a resignation, or a termination of employment on the part of the feared head of security at EGSH?
Still, it warms the old cockles to learn that someone can do a less effective job than Group 4, many of whose security staff would appear, by their demeanour, to have failed bank robber school.:uhoh:
That'll get one locked up for 28 days, going on 42 plus the thirty it takes the Commons to debate the matter. Still, another report today stated that prisons were now so comfortable, 'cushy' was the word used, that convicts do not even want to escape. Jolly good thing that, for Group 4 that is, if they have the contract for public protection from prisoners, ain't it?:D

[niknak]

The BBC got in, was able to wander around airside and even took away some books from the Head of Security's office, informed sources state that the Head of Security was incandescant with rage... because she hadn't fininshed colouring them in yet.....:E

[42psi]

Not good ... but is it only me that notes the "form of words used" both by the BBC and NWI??

What I'm reading suggests we are talking about a "controlled landside" area and not airside ...

???

[rvsm compliant]

The area shown is not anywhere near the live terminal area, there is a further checkpoint, manned and security screened were loose items are x-rayed and personal have to walk thru the 'Bleeping arch'.

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

Far as one can remember there are no jet fuel tanks near any hangars at EGSH. All the fuel is kept down at the depot on the little perimeter road and then tankered in through the main perimeter security gate to the aircraft.
However those with long memories will recall that during the cold war, Vulcan bombers used to sit at Norwich airport, 24/7, engines fired up waiting to go and bomb the Russians. These aircraft used to be fully armed with nuclear devices and would stand, loaded and locked, on the hard opposite what today is the new and improved hangar like terminal building, for use of which an extra tax, over and above that levied by the government's green political usury, is charged.
It was always rumoured that one or more nuclear device, disarmed of course, had been left at Norwich and indeed apparently one of these was almost fitted to the Vulcan which is now in the Norwich Aviation Museum at the upwindish end of Rwy 27 and which did indeed fly down towards the Malvinas during the British armed aggression there. It had to turn back when it arrived at Ascension Island, suffering from structural failure. Large chunks of its heat resistant tiles had started to fall of. After a long and exhaustive enquiry by the RAF adjudicatory panel into: Accidents that might have been, Vulcan, one of; it was determined that this was not due to Argentine sabotage but rather attributable to the quality of British workmanship and engineering locally at Felthorpe.
Anyway, the end result of all this is that if the very strong and substantiated rumours are correct, then what the BBC or other journalists saw and mistook for fuel tanks were in fact the underwing pods for the nuclear devices Devices which, furthermore, have apparently never been removed from their camouflaged casings, although they have apparently been rendered sufficiently safe as to satisfy Norwich City Council health and safety regulations which, as all who dwell in her know, are among the toughest in the country.:ooh:

[Em0866]

Some good news to see weekend holidays flights to Croatia and Corsica with Holiday Options :Dhttp://news.cheapflights.co.uk/flights/2008/05/holiday-flights.html (http://news.cheapflights.co.uk/flights/2008/05/holiday-flights.html)

[airhumberside]

These aren't new, just usual summer charters

[Expressflight]

Are the Holiday Options flights operated by Eastern Saab 2000s then?

[Wellington Bomber]

Express Flight

Yes they are!

[Phil Space]

I haven't used it for a few years and avoid it as a GA stop but had to route through there the other day en-route to the Far East.Living on the Norfolk Suffolk border it is cheaper and more convenient for me to use Stansted.

However I thought I'd try Norwich.

What an excuse for an airport! I've been in better train stations in the regions.

The drop off is in a small car park with no facilities about the size of a decent lay-by. There is not even a bus shelter. You make your way through a hole in the hedge and through some big plastic bollards to a large shed which resembles a cheap supermarket.

A paper shop and a small coffee outlet plus a smattering of cheap tables and chairs sums it up.And no wi-fi...:ugh:

A 'development tax' of £5.00 per passenger is levied for this third world facility .

I see that passengers numbers have taken a dive....I wonder why.

Take a tip from me...avoid the place.

[colinhunn]

You are quite right. Omniport are running the place into the ground. They couldn't arrange a :mad: in a brewery! I can see the place becoming like SEN. All maintenance, paint with next to no schedules.

[GayFriendly]

The fact that this is the only NWI thread and has only two posts on it would suggest there is jack all going on there ;)

I flew from NWI regularly in 2007 and found it fine - quick and easy check in, the cafe was over priced (like all UK airports) but OK, no queues at security and plenty of seating. Don´t do wi-fi but but find it funny Norwich city centre has wi fi access throughout (free?) for all but the airport doesn´t.......anyway its a bit harsh to call it a third world airport and to avoid it! I can think of many far worse airports I have flown through including a number in South East Asia

[Phil Space]

The lack of reaction says it all.

I used to fly in there on a regular basis in my aircraft years ago and going back several years it was a great destination.
Then they added the 'International' tag and sold out.
Light aircraft/helicopter visitors have gone through the floor.

They have also given the place a cheap tacky image similar to a Yarmouth arcade complete with the two bouncers I met departing who nearly stripped the
KLM captain to his vest and pants in front of me.

A good site for Gavin and Stacy but it is also the Turnip Taliban Spaceport:ugh:

[danielmellor]

Just asking a question here?

When LTE Operated The Spanish Routes, What Where The Loads Like?

and also Could we ever get Ryanair to Norwich? Move Them Up The Road from Stansted?

[LXGB]

When Flybe did the Malaga run it was always full. I'm pretty sure LTE were having no problem filling up their flights to Spain. Real shame that you can't fly to Malaga from Norwich anymore, it was a very popular route.

[Navpi]

...and if Maintenance moves to Manchester as rumoured what next then !

[niknak]

Ooh! Do elaborate Navpi, "the maintenance" being who?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[NickBarnes]

i think to call the airport a third world airport is a bit stupid :rolleyes:, i have seen alot worse airports than it, it certianly aint the best airport by any length, and we all know that the £5 airport levy :ugh: was the most stupid thing they probally will ever do, it saw a dramitic drop in passengers and routes and airlines and if one day they do get rid of it i could see routes and airlines come back again but then i think i might be dreaming on that one lol

but there are now more routes this summer to holiday destinations than last year which is good, it was fantastic to see that Tunisa was available, only for 6 weeks tho but i am booked to go on it one of those weeks:ok:

Flybe have bought back Guernsey, along with Jersey and Exeter for the summer

so it aint all doom and gloom lol

but if they do want to make the airport grow in passengers etc then for starters GET RID OF THE STUPID 5 LEVY ON PASSENGERS every time they use the airport :D

[Der absolute Hammer]

Norwich airport is nothing more than a waiting room for a flight. It makes no successful effort to be a recreation centre.
Where it scores is that the British keep raising their airport taxes and the Dutch keep lowering theirs. It is far cheaper to fly ([robably almost) anywahere in the world vis AMS than it is to pay to go down to LHR or LGW. STN, of course, hardly counting as an international aiport since its destinations are mainly European and Britain is part of that one big happy family.

[PeterP]

As a former Norwich Airport Consultative Cttee member, I don.t quite understand what the vision is here. Either from PPruners or from what I can see from the airport management itself. Where is Norwich capable of going ... anyone know?

[Pete_W]

Fares from Norwich are not cheap in my experience: KLM have hugely increased their prices from NWI (no doubt taking full advantage of their monopoly). I've found it considerably cheaper over the last 6 months to go to LCY or LHR & use other carriers.

[NickBarnes]

i think that it can only go more to charter flights and holiday packages tbh, and that seems what they are doing now, with a 30% increase in them this summer. Don't think that the airport has any chance of having more scheduled flights, the only ones that have worked seem to be Manchester, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Amsterdam.

[niknak]

NickB

you are probably right, added to which, don't be suprised to see a direct attack in the near future on a certain Stansted low cost carrier's beligerence towards anyone who is choosy about the way they are treated (ie. the over 50 brigade).

I am led to believe that this is a two, or even multi pronged mission by a combination of NWI management and competing airlines - i.e. more than one.

It would be great if it came off, because if it does, there's bugger all the beligerent bugger in Dublin could do about it...:E

[9VSIO]

Here's my two cents as a pilot about Norwich.

I did my second landaway to Naarch, and I was looking rather forward to it. I had known that the landing fees were going to be in the region of 30quid, but was prepared to pay it. On the way in, ATC were professional as one would expect. Things started to go a bit south on the ground. Went with my instructor to pay the fee after being shuttled across the apron, entered the airport ops room, and there was such a scene in front of me. No one bothered to attend to us for ages - you'd think that they'd want to get rid of us as quick as possible. Was hit by the minimum charge of 46quid. Now that I was not expecting. Turns out that it was on the last page of charges, well after the landing fee was written up. Lesson learnt! In hindsight, I should have uplifted fuel.

Inside, the airport was very regional. That's all I can say about it really. Didn't pay the passenger development fee as we were crew, and we probably wouldn't have done so if we had to.

Ah, security check. No exceptions for GA pilots it would seem. The lady at the checkpoint told us there'd be someone to let us out of the terminal on the other side, but upon emerging all x-rayed, there was not a single member of staff to be found. So back to the counter to find someone to let us pass. All in all, it was the ground side of things that let the airport down.

Also, I remember that the taxiway for GA aircraft was rather...poor.

My second, and last trip, was for my cross country qualifier. I had to use NWI as the X-wind at other locations were way out of limits. This time, I didn't bother to go landside. Just paid my fees, got the MET, used the loo, and got out.

Norwich Radar has always been very nice in my experience with them. I've used them whenever I'm in that area - it always seems to be the same lady working it! She'll even call up North Denes just to check it's clear of traffic when I ask if she can see anything on her scope! :)

In light of Coventry's fee reductions as the airlines leave it, I had hoped that Norwich would have done the same. But the last time I checked (August), the silly fees were still there and that put me off flying there for some instrument work.

What's sad is that when my instructor flew into Norwich for his x-country quali, it only cost him 7 pounds to land there... One can only hope that management wake up and make the place friendly and appealing to GA again.

[NickBarnes]

"From November, Thomson will be operating Boeing 737-800s with 189 seats, flying direct from Norwich Airport to Tenerife and Alicante and to a new route, Sharm el Sheikh, in Egypt. The flights will operate every week for 26 weeks"

:ok:

"Holiday makers can now go to Tunisia in Summer or Winter from Norwich Airport thanks to Thomas Cook Airlines, who have extended their programme to 27 departures on Sundays, from 07 March 2010 to 17 April 2011.



Departure dates are as follows:

07 Mar – 16 May 2010

17 – 24 Oct 2010

07 – 21 Nov 2010

19 & 26 Dec 2010

27 Feb – 17 Apr 2011 "

good news at last :ok:

[Phil Space]

As the recession kicks in Norwich is hurting bad.

As a fixed and rotary wing pilot I have a smile on my face.

This was a great little airport until about 7 years ago when they decided they were in the big league. Loads of hassle if you flew in there with security etc which meant I took my aircraft and helicopter operations elsewhere. Landing a chopper a mile to the east at Sprowston Manor avoided all the stasi stuff plus an easy lunch.

I used the airport as a passenger as well. But the development fee plus parking problems and a negative attitude to consumers forced a rethink and living near Diss I decided that Stansted was a better bet.

I now observe the airport has problems. Traffic down 30% in a year and staff being axed.

I can only smile and say Norwich Airport is reaping what they sowed.

From the Eastern Daily Press

Jobs to be axed at Norwich International Airport

A string of senior managers at Norwich International Airport look set to lose their jobs as part of a shake-up, but the airport boss said difficult decisions were needed to steer it through tough economic times.

It is understood that nine managers and one director at the airport have been or will be made redundant in the weeks ahead.

Andrew Bell, who became the permanent chief executive at the airport in May after filling the role on a temporary basis since the sudden departure of former CEO Elliott Summers at the start of the year, said he could not give details of the numbers or roles of those facing redundancy.

But he said: “We are going through a process of restructuring which is going to involve making redundancies.

“Because of the nature of the process I cannot go into any further details at this point, but in common with pretty much every business at the moment, I have had to ask what can we do with the business?

“We need structural change and I have had to make difficult decisions. We are working the way through the process and we are consulting with those people.”

But he said passengers would not be affected by the changes and said: “One of the things I am determined to preserve is customer service.
“The importance of safety and operations goes without saying and if anything we hope to be able to make improvements.

“It’s clearly going to be very bad news for the people who are in this process, given the economic situation, but as I have always said, we need to set up this airport to be a business which can operate in the current environment.

“I am trying to safeguard the other 189 jobs at the airport, the 800 plus jobs elsewhere on the airfield and the thousands involved in the supply line.

“I am absolutely certain this will move us in the right direction and it is not a retrograde step.”

Rumours also circulated yesterday that airline BMI was pulling its flights to Aberdeen - on which oil rig workers rely - from Norwich.

But both Mr Bell and BMI dismissed that speculation. The BMI spokesman said: “We remain committed to Norwich International Airport, as always,”

The news of redundancies comes just weeks after the airport received a boost with new flights from Norwich to Sharm El Sheikh in Egyot.

The flights operated by Thomson Airways, were launched along with new winter sun direct services to Alicante and Tenerife, which will run until April next year.

But in recent years, the airport has suffered a series of blows, with services from the city axed or reduced, including direct flights to Paris by Flybe and to Barcelona and Palma by Spanish airline LTE.

Passenger numbers at the airport, which is 80pc owned by Omniport, with Norwich City Council and Norfolk County Council retaining the remaining interest, fell by 30pc to 404,000 last year as the recession took its toll.


Jobs to be axed at Norwich International Airport - News - Eastern Daily Press (http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/jobs_to_be_axed_at_norwich_international_airport_1_731067)

[johnnychips]

Schadenfreude?

[Buster the Bear]

Security issues are nationwide, not just at Norwich!

The rest of your email smacks of ill informed rubbish.

All airports and much of their support infrastructure is reeling from a certain recession, no doubt Norwich is one of hundreds of airports around the world having to make painful decisions.

[ALLMCC]

Small consolation but I had heard Flybe are evaluating the possibility of reinstating the link with BHD withdrawn a few years ago.

[LXGB]

As the recession kicks in Norwich is hurting bad.

As a fixed and rotary wing pilot I have a smile on my face.

Schadenfreude?


Spot on assessment Johnny C, got it in one mate!

[bad bear]

I feel moved to offer my sympathies to those at Norwich who face the treat of redundancy in this ongoing aviation decline and hope the remainder of the workforce can be spared. I do fear that aviation will not recover to previous levels and that modest reductions in expectations will leave Norwich as a healthy "small" airport rather than a bankrupt hopefull.

I do not share the views of philspace.

bb

[Gonzo]

I can only smile........

Jobs to be axed at Norwich International Airport

Yes, lots to smile about!.....:yuk:

[UrbanCommander]

Interested to know what maintenance bases are rumoured to be moving to MAN - only 2 come to mind at Norwich and one of those is not strictly "maintenance" as in EASA 145 etc. Fair to say that was it not for the paying tenants at the airport that the airport would probably cease to exist overnight. And not forgetting the offshore rotary wing flights that contribute a significant amount of business for the airport.

Interesting times ahead.

[no slots]

phil space!
what an arrogant,pumped up,self opinionated ********! Those people who may loose their jobs certainatley don't deserve your crass, gloating ,tasteless comments.Just because 7 years ago you had a little bit of hassel when flying you rich boy toy into the airport! If I see your chopper parked at the hotel when I play golf there Ill gladly get my driver out and **** it with a Dunlop 65DDH i you:mad:

[SWBKCB]

no slots - well said!

[smallpilot]

Its never nice to see people lose their jobs, but I have to agree with those posters who said the aiport is now reaping what they sowed. They took a conscious decision to price out GA and training flights and lost a lot of business, something that could of been a bit of bread and butter for them. The cost conscious GA pilots all avoid the place now and there'd been a big drop in training flights. Other smaller regional airports with 'big airport syndrome' would do well to learn the lessons of how not to do it Norwich-style.

[NorthSouth]

Other smaller regional airports with 'big airport syndrome' would do well to learn the lessons of how not to do it Norwich-styleYes but sadly they won't, because the numbers will never stack up. Let's say 20 extra GA movements a day at £25 a throw, that grosses them about £180,000 a year - not a lot. And they'd have to have staff available to deal with them including all the security etc, probably extra vehicles too. And if the GA pilots don't go through the terminal and don't park their cars there the airport gets nothing extra.

Look at Newquay. A publicly-owned airport, supposedly devoted to promoting inward tourism to Cornwall. A very attractive destination for light aircraft. Total 'aero club, private and business aviation' movements in 2009 - 5. Yes, that's right, five.

NS

[niknak]

There's no doubt that previous Management at Norwich made a very grave error with their attitude to G/A.
I can absolutely assure you that everyone, except the recently departed M.D. saw through it, but he went to the Ryanair University of Belligerence and came out with 1st Class Honours and refused to listen.

However, the new development by Saxonair will make a difference. http://www.saxonair.com
They're in it for the long term and are extremely supportive.
They will be handling all G/A who don't have anywhere else to go, and their refreshing, level headed attitude to everything and everyone aviation will hopefully attract new and old back to Norwich. they've already managed to attract CHC from North Denes which will be a significant increase in rig passengers.

For the airport itself, it's going to be a long old slog, the new M.D has a huge amount to do and the Airport Owners have to make some sensible decisions regarding debts, if they don't it'll be like this for a long time to come.

As for Phil Space, well folks, he makes a habit of knocking airports and airfields he has the most minor grudges with. A brief look at his posts over the years will clearly demonstrate that he's someone with a great deal to say about nothing at all.
I know who he is and before I leave I'd like to invite him on a tour of Norwich Airport, then he can personally share his mirth with those who are about to lose their jobs and those whose posts may under threat, all of whom are worrying if they'll still own a home in the New Year. What a giggle that would be eh?:rolleyes:

I'll let you know how I get on!

[UrbanCommander]

Ok, done some of my own background on this. (the rumour of a "maintenance base" from NWI moving to MAN). Of the 2 significant players at NWI in the maintenance field there is not a chance of any of them moving to Manchester - in fact, quite the opposite.

Im glad - I have lived in the shadow of the airport since I was born and remember looking through the wire fence on Quaker lane at the planes as a lad - I also worked there for a number of years, it may not be a palace but it serves its purpose well and is very people friendly.

I cant think of anyone there who deserves to loose their job - and maybe the one that did has already gone - those in the know (niknak :E) will know exactly who I mean.

Fingers crossed the new MD does well in the face of difficult times. My thoughts are with those who now have this hanging over their heads - its not a nice situation to be in and anyone who finds pleasure in that needs a cold slap.

[Phil Space]

I've sent an email to niknak to assure him it is nothing personal.

However I quote from the Eastern Daily Press....

It is understood that nine managers and one director at the airport have been or will be made redundant in the weeks ahead.

Why does a small airport like Norwich need in excess of nine managers?

The other question is that if they are not needed now why were they needed in the past and who paid for them?

I'll answer the last question...the punters using the airport.

Durham Tees airport is alo in a similar position,12 million in the red and sueing a major airline which pulled out. I'm sure that will attract new operators.

Norwich is an oil support airfield.The main traffic is offshore helicopters and KLM flights to Aberdeen and Amsterdam. KLM fares are extremely high compared to the likes of easyjet and Ryanair. The result is that the opportinity EGSH offers, a short close link to worldwide flights via Amsterdam,
is denied to anyone using the airport as it too expensive compared to Stansted just down the road.

With the decline in North Sea oil operations who knows what the future holds for Norwich. If the new MD wants to do something positive cheap flights to Schiphol would be a good idea but I suspect the main operator with a base at NWI would block that.

I'd use the airport again if it became attractive. It needs someone like Ryanair to do that and I cannot see KLM acepting that.

On a final note I am sure the owners are aware of the development value of the land should Nortn Sea operations ever move elsewhere.

[Phileas Fogg]

Phil Space,

Go check on such a website as http://www.fly.com/uk/ and check out the fare on KLM, lets say, NWI/MNL/NWI then compare this to the fare AMS/MNL/AMS and one will come to realise the NWI/AMS/NWI sectors come very competively priced.

What ..... you have your own fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft operation yet you choose to travel with the likes of Ryanair and EasyJet?

Me, I'm a mere cheapskate, I don't have the money to land helicopters in hotel grounds but I have circa 38,000 accumulated KLM 'Flying Blue' points, shame on you you tight fisted basket!

P.S. Just rushing to the toilet, a (supposed) professional pilot making statement that Ryanair make an airport look attractive. :)

[Phil Space]

Phil Space,

Go check on such a website as http://www.fly.com/uk/ and check out the fare on KLM, lets say, NWI/MNL/NWI then compare this to the fare AMS/MNL/AMS and one will come to realise the NWI/AMS/NWI sectors come very competively priced. ..... you have your own fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft operation yet you choose to travel with the likes of Ryanair and EasyJet? I'm a mere cheapskate, I don't have the money to land helicopters in hotel grounds but I have circa 38,000 accumulated KLM 'Flying Blue' points, shame on you you tight fisted basket!S. Just rushing to the toilet, a (supposed) professional pilot making statement that Ryanair make an airport look attractive.

You make some valid points.
KLM will charge you 375 UK pounds for a single fare NWI to AMS. However they offer a 3 month return for 135 pounds. (check it out on their website.)

As for your example of the flight NWI/MNL/NWI that is via Bangkok to Manila.
It used to be a bargain (China Airways) especially those travelling to BKK. However there are better options now via London airports so that traffic has moved.

I am not going to debate why private pilots are cost aware but trust me some people smoke and drink and others waste their money flying from no where to nowhere.

Norwich has a nice cafe looking out over the apron.

The place needs to adopt a more positive attitude to anyone turning up to either sightsee or see people off.

I am happy to waste my time suggesting ideas to the airport management to improve Norwich airport.

For starters they need to adopt the model of 20 years ago.

[Phileas Fogg]

Phil Space,

I can assure you than AMS/MNL/AMS are direct flights, I flew the route myself during July of this year, the aircraft are B777's painted in a shade of blue and with 'KLM' written on them!!!

NWI/AMS return flights are currently available from £119.25, I've just checked on KLM's website, however if booking via a certain top cashback site there is currently £10.00 cashback if booking direct to KLM's website, infact currently £10.10 cashback, that brings the fare down to £109.15.

BUT ..... do you really believe the majority of travellers on KLM's NWI route are, final, destination AMS? Of course they aren't, that KLM flight will also be on an AF flight number, thru connections AMS/CDG, these are worldwide travellers that value their worldwide availability via the Fokker serving their little regional airport.

[Wellington Bomber]

Phil Space

KLM do not go to Aberdeen from Norwich

Eastern and BMI Regional do

[Phil Space]

Shows how long ago it was that I last did the trip. It was one of their regular routes and in fact I did quite a few jump seat trips up front. The last one must have been over a decade ago and we lined up and took off on the now disused
runway outside the terminal.

I hope the new airport manager can undo some of the damage done in the past but in my opinion it was a great little airport when it was still council owned.

[Phil Space]

Niknak wrote..
There's no doubt that previous Management at Norwich made a very grave error with their attitude to G/A.
I can absolutely assure you that everyone, except the recently departed M.D. saw through it, but he went to the Ryanair University of Belligerence and came out with 1st Class Honours and refused to listen.

However, the new development by Saxonair will make a difference. http://www.saxonair.com
They're in it for the long term and are extremely supportive.
They will be handling all G/A who don't have anywhere else to go, and their refreshing, level headed attitude to everything and everyone aviation will hopefully attract new and old back to Norwich. they've already managed to attract CHC from North Denes which will be a significant increase in rig passengers.

For the airport itself, it's going to be a long old slog, the new M.D has a huge amount to do and the Airport Owners have to make some sensible decisions regarding debts, if they don't it'll be like this for a long time to come.

As for Phil Space, well folks, he makes a habit of knocking airports and airfields he has the most minor grudges with. A brief look at his posts over the years will clearly demonstrate that he's someone with a great deal to say about nothing at all.
I know who he is and before I leave I'd like to invite him on a tour of Norwich Airport, then he can personally share his mirth with those who are about to lose their jobs and those whose posts may under threat, all of whom are worrying if they'll still own a home in the New Year. What a giggle that would be eh?

I'll let you know how I get on!

We the answer is Niknak has been very quite since he posted that.I sent him a detailed reply which I am happy to post but where is his response.?

There is no mirth in people losing jobs but there is no justification in little airports like Norwich finding they have nine managers and one director surplus to requirements.People like me have to fund that infrastructure.

In supermarket terms Norwich is or should be a Lidl and not an M & S.

As for me I am here in Norfolk for a few more weeks before heading back for the winter to Asia using Emirates from LHR:ok:

[niknak]

What did you want or expect me to say?

I'll put you right on one thing though; The "9 managers" were, until the previous MD came along, "Shift Leaders" in various departments. Each one of them ran individual shifts in 3 departments, (one am, one pm and one on rest days), so now it should be a bit clearer as to why there were 9 of them.
Their redundandcies are a big loss in terms of skill base and knowledge, it will take a long time before anyone is able to do the individual jobs as well as each of them did.

They were only made "Managers" because that is the way the previous MD wanted to run the business.
Their job tiltles changed and job functions included many more responsibilities for which many of them, when they were asked for help/training, were given the O'Leary treatment.
I know this because, unkown to senior management, I often helped them out with procedure formulation and writing - I'm not claiming to be the Messiah, it's just that I knew how to do it so I could pass on the benefits of my knowledge and I was very happy to do so.

I've made no secret of my opinion as to the way the airport treated G/A and the way things have been done, but they are where they are and, as I've previously said, the new MD has a much more progressive approach as to the way things done.
Aside from the redundancies, I think he's on the right track.
The current owners need to either significantly reduce or write off the airport company debt, its the only the airport will be able to get out the perpetual rut it finds itself in.

There's not much more I can say, other than your lack of actual knowledge of current operatons and people at Norwich Airport makes you look a bit daft everytime you spout forth about something which hasn't happened for ages or has never happened at all.
I leave on Friday, but I'm someone will be delighted to give you a guided tour.

I am sure that there'll be plenty of airfields in Asia you can give the world your considered opinon upon. I look forward to reading all about it when you get back.

[Phil Space]

Niknak

I do not want to appear to be having a personal go at anyone at Norwich but my comments stem from the various negative scenarios I have experienced over the last 12 years.

The days of just calling up on the radio on approach to Norwich and popping in for a coffee have long gone. As others have stated elsewhere the security team seem to delight in filling the few times when they are busy witha zeal that means Norwich is renowned for going over the top especially for departing private pilots flying their own aircraft. Removal of bottles of wine etc from GA operators is not going to win the airport any friends.

What did you want or expect me to say?

I'll put you right on one thing though; The "9 managers" were, until the previous MD came along, "Shift Leaders" in various departments. Each one of them ran individual shifts in 3 departments, (one am, one pm and one on rest days), so now it should be a bit clearer as to why there were 9 of them.
Their redundandcies are a big loss in terms of skill base and knowledge, it will take a long time before anyone is able to do the individual jobs as well as each of them did.

They were only made "Managers" because that is the way the previous MD wanted to run the business.
Their job tiltles changed and job functions included many more responsibilities for which many of them, when they were asked for help/training, were given the O'Leary treatment.
I know this because, unkown to senior management, I often helped them out with procedure formulation and writing - I'm not claiming to be the Messiah, it's just that I knew how to do it so I could pass on the benefits of my knowledge and I was very happy to do so.

You might call them team leaders and helped them with helped them out with procedure formulation and writing .

We call them jobsworths who have to justify their positions.

The drop of 30% plus in traffic at Norwich is down to management not caring about the customer. Have you ever experienced the Norwich treatment as a passenger or a private pilot?

You say
The current owners need to either significantly reduce or write off the airport company debt, its the only the airport will be able to get out the perpetual rut it finds itself in.

Well Norwich was not in that situation when it was privatized. Why should anyone bail out what has been a disaster.

Durham Tees,Blackpool etc are all facing the same problems.

All fall in to the same catagory. Little airports trying to play in the big league but with no idea and little finesse when it comes to the person who pays the bill. The customer:ok:

As for the new trade...just a case of Norwich poaching the offshore helicopter trade from Beccles and North Denes. Like a flock of starlings they could be off the airfield in a matter of months and where would that leave the airspace grab and the rip off cafe and duty free not to mention the 'development' fee?

[MARKEYD]

Looks like Thomson Holidays have dropped Sharm and Alicante for next winter 2011 / 12 and just kept Tenerife as a winter hot spot

[Phil Space]

Things are not looking good at EGSH. The offshore helicopter operation they thought they could take from North Denes is not going to happen and now Longmint/Sterling are about to fold leaving bills and empty space.

On top of that passenger footfall through Norwich has declined The airport development fee has been a big mistake.

[Keyvon]

It appears that Thomson will also drop Mahon for summer 2012.

[LXGB]

Controlled Airspace has been approved (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=7&pagetype=90&pageid=9326).

[Ye Olde Pilot]

It appears the management at Norwich have decided that as the passengers number drop they will extract more money from them. (The Durham/Tees business model?)
The airport development fee has been doubled to £10.00.
Norwich airport development fee to double - News - Eastern Daily Press (http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/norwich_airport_development_fee_to_double_1_1071843)

Interesting logic from the MD
“It has to go up to make sure that this region has a sustainable airport. At £10 we believe we have a sustainable business that can cater for 450,000 people a year and have the best chance to grow our routes so that those who currently can’t use the airport because we don’t have the flights they want, can.

[LXGB]

Good news!

Norwich International Airport unveils 10 year vision to create 1,000 new jobs with aviation business park scheme.
Source: Eastern Daily Press. (http://www.edp24.co.uk/business/analysis_and_audio_norwich_international_airport_unveils_10_ year_vision_to_create_1_000_new_jobs_with_aviation_business_ park_scheme_1_1459692)

[ara01jbb]

FlyBe / Loganair are suspending NWI-DHR after just ten days of service. Loads apparently never more than six, and presumably that was reflected in forward bookings.

In Dutch: Vandaag.nl - Luchtlijn tussen Den Helder en Engeland nu al gestaakt (http://www.vandaag.nl/denhelder/nieuws/article21235553.ece/Luchtlijn-tussen-Den-Helder-en-Engeland-nu-al-gestaakt?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[Phileas Fogg]

FlyBe / Loganair are suspending NWI-DHR after just ten days of service. Loads apparently never more than six

Now there's a surprise, Air Anglia then Air UK then KLM have held the NWI/AMS/NWI monopoly for some 40 years and some smart@ss operator comes along to offer alternate services to/from a Dutch airfield the majority have never heard of and have no idea where it is.

I still recall the days of "Holland Aerolines" trying their RTM/NWI/RTM services with a Gaff "Gomad", they even tried it with an ATR42, their operation lasted something like 10 days also.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/7/4/4/0246447.jpg

[NorthSouth]

Some of us would queue up to fly in something like that, but then again Geek Airways was never much of a starter....
NS

[davidjohnson6]

One could argue that if the same airline (via various mergers / takeovers) has held the monopoly on a route for 40 years and can sustain 21x weekly service, there might possibly be room for another airline to offer a slightly different product (eg a related airport, different timings or alternate ticket pricing model), and take a share of an enlarged market.

[M-JCS]

On paper, at least, NWI would seem like a good candidate for regional carriers. Instead it has only seen services and numbers plummet in the last few years. What do you all put that down to? What makes NWI so seemingly unattractive?

[Phileas Fogg]

What makes NWI so seemingly unattractive?

Because on two sides it is surrounded by water, on t'other side (west) it is covered by less than ideal roads and on t'other side it is surrounded by STN, LTN and SEN.

Norfolk has a nigh on b*gger all catchment area by itself and nobody in their right mind is likely to travel there on slow roads to catch a flight that they can catch from a more ideally placed airport.

Personally I love Norwich, the quaint little streets, the Colman's Mustard Shop, the "oldie worldie" of the place but it's out the back of beyond.

[GGR]

Went MAN-NWI on 6Feb via Flybe/Loganair/Suckling, Dornier 328, Only a few, maybe 5 empty seats. First time in a Dornier, nice aircraft, imagine it is great fun to fly.
Norwich was looking very tired and unloved.

GGR

[Expressflight]

Insufficient catchment has always been a problem for NWI.

Locals are quite used to travelling to STN for holiday departures and I've spoken to people who use LGW and now also SEN. The Airport Develpment Fee at £10 per departing passenger doesn't help either.

[virginblue]

Could someone enlighten me about the public transport options from Norwich Centre to the airport (the airport site is unhelpful as the link provided there is dead...)?

Is my understanding correct that one has to take a "Park & Ride" bus from the city centre to a place somewhere near the airport and connect from there to a shuttle bus to the airport? Can a "foot" passenger without a car get a ticket at the wrong end (i.e. at the city centre to which P&R customers are supposed to travel to) for a journey to the airport? I am slightly confused as the park & ride bus rules appear to be rather strict (eg personnel may check if someone using the bus indeed has a bike etc.).

[davidjohnson6]

virginblue - I think you want the number 37 bus (or 38 if the 37 doesn't show up)

Current Timetables | Norfolk & Suffolk | FirstGroup plc. (http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/suffolk_norfolk/journey_planning/timetables/index.php?operator=22&page=3&redirect=no)
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/suffolk_norfolk/assets/pdfs/journey_planning/maps/Norwich.pdf

[Phileas Fogg]

Traveline - Your link to local public transport information (http://traveline.info/)

[virginblue]

Thanks for your help.

I had checked traveline, but could not believe that an airport has a bus service that drops you off somewhere in a residential area a ten minute walk from the terminal....

[LXGB]

Options are...

1. Around £10 for a taxi in to the city. Rank outside the terminal.

2. £2 for a return Park & Ride ticket to the city. Bus terminal is less than 5 mins walk from the terminal. Don't tell them you don't have a car.

3. 5 minute walk to the main road bus stop. Buses every 15 mins, not sure what they cost though.

Hope that helps. Enjoy your trip!

Cheers,

LXGB

[ara01jbb]

No bus pulls into the airport any more. The Airport Park & Ride car park is one of five park and ride sites serving the city; its five minutes walk from the terminal (exit the building and follow the access road to your right).

Buses run every 15-20 minutes from about 06:30-19:00 Monday to Saturday, £2.40 day return. A ten round trip ticket is a bit cheaper per trip and has no expiry date.

Info: Norfolk County Council - Park and Ride (http://www.norfolk.gov.uk/Travel_and_transport/TravelNorfolk/Park_and_Ride/index.htm)

A few rural buses run past the airport on the main road but they're less frequent and a bit pricier.

It's at least an hour's walk to the city centre (I've done it once, don't ask...)

[Expressflight]

I formed the impression that virginblue needed to get to the airport from the city centre. The Park & Ride cannot be used for that, as far as I know, because you would not be in possession of a ticket when you got on the bus. I believe that tickets are issued only on boarding at the car parks themselves.

[coughing corner]

Are there any on line movement logs for Norwich like there are for some other airports, either official or enthusiast collated?

[ara01jbb]

I've never had that problem. Bus drivers always friendly and understanding. I just don't think you can get a single ticket, because it's assumed all passengers are day returns.

[virginblue]

I formed the impression that virginblue needed to get to the airport from the city centre. The Park & Ride cannot be used for that, as far as I know, because you would not be in possession of a ticket when you got on the bus. I believe that tickets are issued only on boarding at the car parks themselves.

Indeed, hence my confusion about the P&R option as I am without a car and starting from the wrong end (I will be arriving by train).

I guess the best option is to take one of the local busses from the city centre to somewhere near the airport.

Quite surprised how difficult NWI makes it passengers to use them - 10 GBP "development fee" (given the recent history it is more a "winding-up fee"), no proper public transport...

[FRatSTN]

Looks like Thomson will be basing an aircraft in Norwich for summer 2014.

It looks to be a very small base in that there is only one flight on each day as far as I can tell.

Monday: Dalaman
Tuesday: Palma de Mallorca
Wednesday: Ibiza
Thursday: Enfidha
Friday: Corfu
Saturday: Palma de Mallorca
Sunday: Tenerife-South

[virginblue]

Thanks again to all who assisted with my transportation problem. In the end, I took a taxi from the rank at the market after a leisurely stroll through the city centre (much nicer than I had expected). The taxi was 9.50 GBP.

At the airport I underwent the most thorough security screening I have ever experienced on 800+ flights, including flights to Israel. But I think this was only because there was not much going on and the screener was desperate to show off for a group of "behind the scenes" visitors who were all watching the spectacle from nearby. At one point, I was seriously concerned the guy would bite a chunk out of my danish pastry I carried in my backpack after he had visually inspected it for like a minute. I was really amused. :}

[airhumberside]

Brochure shows the airline as TBA. Thu will have a Palma flight as well as Enfidha

[Dontgothere]

With regards to the predictable failure of the Den Helder, they may as well have re-jigged the timetable a bit and sent the Do328 to Dublin instead, at least there is something of a market for it, compared to an anonymous little town at the top of the Netherlands. The only other option is for Aer Arann send an AT43 down the way, I suspect that NWI will have no DUB service for a good while...

[oceanhawk]

No Norwich base for summer 2014. Sorry.

[FRatSTN]

Well unless the timetable completetly changes there is certainly something based at Norwich but as airhumberside correctly says, it does show the airline as "To Be Advised".

And after another look, I did indeed miss out to Palma flight on Thursdays. It means there's eight departures a week for what ever this based aircraft may be.

[SWBKCB]

One departure a day seems unlikely for a based aircraft?

[FRatSTN]

The aircraft seems to be doing W patterns between the early morning outbound and late evening inbound flights from Norwich on shorter routes to Palma, Ibiza and Corfu. So despite the a/c being based in Norwich, it spends quite a lot of time away from Norwich.

Longer routes like Dalaman and Tenerife-South are timed so that they leave later in the mornng and arrive earlier evening. For example, the Tenerife service leaves at 09:00 and returns back into Norwich at 18:35 so the aircraft still remains utilised for much of the day. The only significant gap is after a 16:15 return from Dalaman on Monday's. Perhaps they may squeeze a new route in like Menorca, which often flies on Monday's.

All in all the aircraft does seem to be well utilised, it's just that is actually appears to spend a lot of time away from Norwich, despite being its base. Of course all this could change, the airline has not yet been advised but currently, timetables do suggest an well utilised aircraft based in Norwich.

[Phileas Fogg]

What about the 3rd rotation per day, the night one?

UK bucket & spade operators don't make money from leaving aircraft lying around, sounds more like aircraft would be operating "W" patterns in to, rather than out of, Norwich and they would be based elsewhere!

[Wycombe]

I thought the same a you Phileas, but noticed on the Bristol thread that although TOM will have 3 a/c based there in S14, there is hardly any night-flying (at least according to the info provided so far)

Like you say, many of us are used to the days when charter a/c were worked around the clock.....nights to DLM, CFU, IBZ, PMI etc etc. spring to mind.

I also thought, like you, that it looked like these NWI flights were on W's from somewhere else, but it seems not. To be fair, the TOM a/c at the smaller bases (EXT, BOH spring to mind) do seem to follow and similar (and quite civilised!) pattern.

[FRatSTN]

Take a look on the Thomson website and you'll see that whatever airline this may be, they fly out from Norwich around 7am on most days and get back quite late in the evneing. A quick look through the timetable and you'll quickly see that there is an aircraft doing night stop-overs at Norwich.

[pamann]

JetairFly? Just a thought?

[FRatSTN]

All the W patterns are to Aberdeen.

On Tuesday and Saturday the a/c does:
NWI-PMI-ABZ-PMI-NWI

Wednesday:
NWI-IBZ-ABZ-IBZ-NWI

Friday:
NWI-CFU-ABZ-CFU-NWI


For the days without W patterns:

Sunday:
NWI-TFS-NWI

Monday:
NWI-DLM-NWI

Thursday:
NWI-NBE-NWI-PMI-NWI


Let's just hope they can actually find an airline to operate this!

[Ye Olde Pilot]

VirginblueAt the airport I underwent the most thorough security screening I have ever experienced on 800+ flights, including flights to Israel. But I think this was only because there was not much going on and the screener was desperate to show off for a group of "behind the scenes" visitors who were all watching the spectacle from nearby. At one point, I was seriously concerned the guy would bite a chunk out of my danish pastry I carried in my backpack after he had visually inspected it for like a minute. I was really amused.

That's par for the course at Norwich. After you've experienced it many times the joke wears off and in my case I go elsewhere. It was a great little airport years ago but now it appears they management want to inconvenience their passengers as much as they can.
Stansted has taken a lot of their business.

[virginblue]

Well, I took it in a good-humoured way. My second most thorough security check was at Benbecula a couple of years ago shortly after they got their x-ray machine. At airports where little goes on, this must be the screeners daily dose of excitement.

It would have been helpful, though, if the guy had given an explanation that he was either doing a demonstration or he was looking for something specific - particularly after the first few minutes had passed and I was getting slightly irritated looking at all my belongigns being exhibited (I was travelling with an overnight kit and working materiel in my carry on). To hos credit, he was always really polite and just a true eager beaver.

[NickBarnes]

Mon
Norwich - Dalaman
7:30 - 13:15
Dalaman - Norwich
14:15 - 16:15

Tue
Norwich - Palma Mallorca
06:40 - 10:05
Palma Mallorca - Aberdeen
11:20 - 13:30
Aberdeen - Palma Mallorca
14:55 - 18:55
Palma Mallorca - Norwich
19:55 - 21:35

Wed
Norwich - Ibiza
06:50 - 10:30
Ibiza - Aberdeen
11:30 - 13:50
Aberdeen - Ibiza
15:15 - 19:35
Ibiza - Norwich
20:35 - 22:15

Thur
Norwich - Tunisia
06:30 - 09:30
Tunisia - Norwich
10:30 - 13:30
Norwich - Palma Mallorca
15:30 - 18:55
Palma Mallorca - Norwich
19:55 - 21:35

Fri
Norwich - Corfu
06:00 - 11:00
Corfu - Aberdeen
12:00 - 13:50
Aberdeen - Corfu
14:55 - 20:35
Corfu - Norwich
21:35 - 22:45

Sat
Norwich - Palma Mallorca
06:20 - 09:45
Palma Mallorca - Aberdeen
10:45 - 12:55
Aberdeen - Palma Mallorca
14:25 - 18:25
Palma Mallorca - Norwich
19:25 - 21:05

Sun
Norwich - Tenerife South
09:00 - 13:25
Tenerife South - Norwich
14:25 - 18:35

There full list on times on what the aircraft will be used, certainly seems to be well utilised for summer 14, apart from Monday maybe, hopefully they will find an aircraft soon for it, will be good to see this, especially Palma 3 times a week!

[Phileas Fogg]

The NWI departure and arrival times should prove really popular with the punters ... not. For the majority of these there will be no public transport available to get to/from the airport so either drive or taxi's and/or airport hotels or Stansted or Luton or Southend.

ABZ punters get all the sociable flight schedules whilst NWI punters get the cr@p!

[Expressflight]

Certainly not the most convenient timings, but I think relatively few people use public transport when flying from NWI whatever the time of day. There isn't even a local bus which actually goes into the airport.

[SWBKCB]

At least it will be a cr@p time from somewhere nearby, rather than a cr@p time miles away...

Also, after the the lack of public transport whinge how long before drop off charges are mentioned ("you only get 10 minutes for free and then its a pound for 30 minutes!")

[Expressflight]

That's better than at some places I could mention.

[LXGB]

The drop off parking charges at Norwich are quite reasonable...
0 to 10 mins - free.
Up to 30 mins - £1.
Up to 60 mins - £3

Compared to say Stansted...
0 to 10 mins - £2
Up to 15 mins - £3
Over 15 mins - £50 penalty!

[Phileas Fogg]

Doesn't Stansted have a railway 6 days per week and National Express 24/7?

[LXGB]

Rail and buses are not much use for an 05:30 check-in. In my experience at least.

[Phileas Fogg]

National Express are not "buses"?

0530 Check-In? ... There was a clue in my post ... "24/7"

[LXGB]

Fair enough, if you don't mind a 3 hour coach trip starting a little after midnight ;) Anyways, sorry for dragging the thread off topic, moving on...

[NickBarnes]

Does anybody know when Thomson assign aircraft for 2014 season as they haven't yet and was wanting to book a flight from NWI - PMI next year, but if the timing changes because they can't find a plane to base their that would be no good. Any help would be great thankyou

[stuart hammond]

Their is news at the airport that next year Easyjet will be based with flights to many destinations, not sure on the number to be based but more than 2 would require more concrete.regardsStuart

[adfly]

Seems unlikely with their presence at STN and SEN, plus their recent commitment to expand at the former.

[Ye Olde Pilot]

I see KLM are now charging £12.00 per bag for hold luggage to AMS.
Yet another reason to use Stansted.

[NickBarnes]

I have complied a list of load factors for norwich's domestic and international routes for may 2013, most routes seem fairly well supported with loads heading towards 70% the 2 stand out ones are Tenerife which seems to be nearly full which is why this operates all year now, also the poor loads on the Isle of Man is a surprise hope it picks up during the summer.

Manchester

21 pax average per flight
Load factor 66%

Guernsey

20 pax average per flight
Load factor 66%

Jersey

46 pax average per flight
Load factor 64%

Isle of Man

15 pax average per flight
Load factor 41%

Tenerife

172 pax average per flight
Load factor 95%

Amsterdam

56 pax average per flight
Load factor 70%

Edinburgh (April 2013)

40 pax average per flight
Load factor 56%

i have not been able to include Aberdeen as 2 airlines operate the route but pax figures are over 5500 for that route, also I have not included alot of charter flights as they only start part way through may

[NickBarnes]

Norwich's routes for summer 2014

Loganair
Manchester 3x daily weekdays plus Sunday service too
Guernsey every Sunday

Flybe
Edinburgh 123457
Newquay - Saturday
Jersey - Saturday

KLM
Amsterdam 4x daily

Thomson (Norwich based aircraft)
Dalaman - Mon
Palma Mallorca - 3x weekly Tues, Thur, Sat
Ibiza - Wed
Enfidha - Thur
Corfu - Fri
Tenerife - Sun
Malta - Tue (Air Malta)

Thomas cook
Palma Mallorca - Tue
Enfidha - Fri
Dalaman - Fri

Balkan Holidays
Bulgaria - Sun

Eastern Airways + BMI regional
28 departures a week to Aberdeen

Plus Madeira 5 departures through the summer

[NickBarnes]

So the apart from the loss of Isle of Man and the first time for Thomson to base an aircraft for the summer at the airport (operater still unknown) its business as usuall, no new routes which is a real shame, but until something changes with the ADF etc it will probably stay like this as I doubt new operators will risk it at the moment

[MARKEYD]

Looks like Thomson Holidays will be using Germania as a based aircraft for next summer , using an A319 or 737 700 aircraft both hold around 148 pax and it will be doing a W pattern up to Aberdeen on some days

Flight schedule has already been posted previously

[NickBarnes]

Having a look at the caa stats for October and all routes see little change in terms of pax from last year which is good altough Edinburgh is down to averaging 42 pax a flight, but the stand out route is the weekly Tenerife service, with average loads of 172 pax per flight on a 180 seat aircraft means load factors of 95.5%! Which is brilliant so no wonder thomson now operate it year round. but makes me wonder if any other sunshine routes could operate year round as with Stansted having TFS doesn't seem to affect Norwich what so ever

[NickBarnes]

Norwich has lost it's summer service to Newquay due to the flybe cuts, altough loads were always quite good.

Hopefully Loganair might step in, but who knows in these current times

[FRatSTN]

Don't know if this has already been mentioned but it seems Germania will be operating Thomson's services at Norwich for S14. The aircraft will be based at the airport. I wonder if by 2015 Thomson could base one of their own planes at Norwich??

[NickBarnes]

hopefully they will the following year, Norwich has seen steady growth for them which probably surprises people with the £10 charge etc but this year flights had great loads and were almost full most times, Tenerife continues to perform well winter and summer, and they now have Palma 3x a week for next year, so depending on aircraft availability and how having a based aircraft at the airport works next year hopefully the airport will get a TOM based aircraft and crew in 2015

[LGS6753]

I wonder if by 2015 Thomson could base one of their own planes at Norwich??

depending on aircraft availability and how having a based aircraft at the airport works next year hopefully the airport will get a TOM based aircraft and crew in 2015

Wake up and smell the coffee!

Why would TOM invest money in establishing a base at an airport with a small catchment area when they can easily sub-charter from elsewhere? It's far more likely that TOM will reduce their smaller bases than add more fragmentation to their business model. They are in a competitive, and some may say declining market that just doesn't need more overheads.

[bad bear]

Is there something wrong with the departures board ? It only shows 2 fixed wing flights today? Looks like the last fixed wing departure was 0945 and the next arrival is 2100.

bb

[Dontgothere]

I think the online departure boards have gone faulty (again). On a winter Saturday there should normally be 3x Amsterdam and 1x Aberdeen.

[airhumberside]

Or holiday season schedule cutbacks?

[Cusco]

I 've done NWI - MAN return with fly be once or twice a month for the last three years for work and think its a great route: the flights are 80-100% full.
They dropped down from the Dash 8 to the Suckling Dornier 328 about 18 months ago It's a great little a/c and I've landed in 30kts gusting40 right across the chute in a mean wing down landing.

Almost on first name terms with hosties(hi Emma) hope she won't be one of the 500 redundancies.

Norwich is struggling however but they are trying: Vodafone reception is now better and free wifi in departure lounge. The food is rubbish however very little uptake so by late pm when I fly the hot stuff has been cremated.

I live in Suffolk and fly be beats rail travel or driving hands down with less than half the travel time.

Norwich have sadly priced themselves out go the GA market and the imposition of class D on slender grounds was the last straw for many.

Re departures board: not all CAT is registered for example BMI flew the Fulham footie team in yesterday for today's Norwich game and no one (not even info desk) knew about it.

I fly a light aeroplane in E Anglia and I
no longer go near Norwich, preferring Cambridge which is cheaper for practice instrument stuff.

[Herschel Krustofski]

hope she won't be one of the 500 redundancies

Don't forget that the Dornier, crew and route is Loganair's (Nee Suckling Airways), so is outside of FlyBe's structure. And there is another Loganair Dornier route to look forward to soon!

[mikkie4]

Fulham football club must have money to burn......cant be more than 2/12 hours by coach

[compton3bravo]

Practically all Premier Leauge clubs prefer to fly - Man U being an exception for obvious reasons - private flight, security, convenience, etc. You only have to look at the fixtures and then tie that up with the airports close by. Arsenal flew from Luton to Norwich last season - flying time 13 minutes I think. Also some lower league clubs - QPR, Blackpool, Preston - also fly occassionally as do some ruby union clubs - i.e. Exeter, Saracens.
Before the environmentalists have a go how about this one - bought some frozen Raspberries in Morrisons in Gibraltar over Christmas- packed in Serbia! looks like they travelled half way round Europe.

[Fairdealfrank]

Re departures board: not all CAT is registered for example BMI flew the Fulham footie team in yesterday for today's Norwich game and no one (not even info desk) knew about it.


A LHR-NWI flight? Must be a first, and probably a last....

[SWBKCB]

Air Anglia used to operate (Navajo's?) and then I think Air UK used Banderainte's?

[Phileas Fogg]

Air Anglia used to operate (Navajo's?) and then I think Air UK used Banderainte's?

And then Air UK operated Shed 360's HUY/NWI/LHR/NWI/HUY

P.S. Yes, it was Air Anglia PA31's, we looked after them from Eastern Radar at Watton.

[NickBarnes]

Holidaymakers boost Norwich airport traffic - Business - Norwich Evening News (http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/business/holidaymakers_boost_norwich_airport_traffic_1_3185933)

Good news Norwich has seen an increase in Passengers after many years of decline

Just up to November passengers were up to 462,248 (does not include December) - compared to 396,676 for the whole of 2012.

So will probably mean once December comes in an additional 90k-100k passengers on last year.

Alltough compared to most airports in the UK this isn't really that amazing, but after seeing year after year since 2007, flight cuts and route reductions along with passenger numbers dropping from the dizzy heights of 745,000 in 2006 this is really good to see at last :ok:

[bad bear]

The departure board can't be broken 2 weeks in a row. To me it appears that there are only the 3 KLM rotations a day on Saturday and the same Sunday until 4pm when there are 4 other flights. In terms of day time flights when there could be perceived to be some risk from conflict with other airspace users Norwich have only 2 or 3 rotations in the whole weekend. I can't see why so much airspace is needed.


bb

[cavortingcheetah]

Norwich airport charges departing passengers a fee of £10 an adult to pass through their miserable little facility. Last year 462,248 passengers, the greater proportion of whom might presumably be grown ups, passed through the airport. That must represent a significant income for someone? Yet another year now goes by and the abysmal passenger facilities at EGSH continue to disgust. The combination of Nissan hut style ablutions, sludge serving self service cafeterias and what passes for an Executive Lounge serve only to remind one that this airport is a place that needs an excuse to be used as a travel jump off point. That justification is provided by KLM which runs its multiple shuttle services to EHAM, civilisation and onward connections.
The above paragraph will suffice for departing passengers. Those arriving at Norwich International receive similar treatment to John Le Carre's spy in the cold. The snaky line, the pill box passport control, redolent of something from a WWII black and white move. Then the baggage hall with its exquisite toilet facilities which serve only to remind one how fortunate was the purchase of a bottle of spray scent at duty free. Baggage trolleys that have humped better bags by far and a chicane to the arrival hall exit, worthy of a wobbly wheel children's television programme.
Norwich likes to boast that it is a fine city and that maybe so but as airports go Norwich airport should.

[Richard Taylor]

...but apart from that? :}

[LXGB]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz77idsgjI1qmktazo1_500.gif

[NickBarnes]

Thomson will be putting on one of their 757 for next winter to Tenerife instead of the current 737 used:ok:

[NickBarnes]

Thomson 2015 schedule see's a new route to Mahon 1x weekly plus Dalaman increasing to 2x weekly. Will also have based aircraft for summer 2015 like this year, believed to be Germania again:ok:

Times are as follows

Mon
Norwich - Dalaman
7:00 - 12:45
Dalaman - Norwich
13:50 - 15:50

Tue
Norwich - Palma
07:50 - 11:15
(performs w pattern to humberside airport)
Palma - Norwich
20:10 - 21:50

Plus
Malta - Norwich
17:10 - 19:30
Norwich - Malta
20:20 - 00:40

Wed
Norwich - Ibiza
06:50 - 10:30
Ibiza - Norwich
11:30 - 13:10
Norwich - Enfidha
14:40 - 17:40
Enfidha - Norwich
18:40 - 21:40

Thur
Norwich - Dalaman
08:00 - 13:45
Dalaman - Norwich
14:45 - 16:45

Fri
Norwich - Palma
06:00 - 09:25
Palma - Norwich
10:25 - 12:05
Norwich - Corfu
13:35 - 18:35
Corfu - Norwich
19:35 - 20:45

Sat
Norwich - Palma
06:20 - 09:45
Palma - Norwich
10:45 - 12:25
Norwich - Mahon
13:55 - 17:20
Mahon - Norwich
18:20 - 19:45

Sun
Norwich - Tenerife South
09:00 - 13:25
Tenerife South - Norwich
14:25 - 18:35

[NickBarnes]

Norwich today has been sold to the Rigby group.

Here's a link

Norwich airport sold by Omniport to regional airport owner Rigby Group - News - Norwich Evening News - Mobile (http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/mobile/news/norwich_airport_sold_by_omniport_to_regional_airport_owner_r igby_group_1_3638330)

[turbroprop]

Is that Sir Peter's lot that own Coventry aerodrome?

[NickBarnes]

They own Exeter and Coventry as well

[Phileas Fogg]

Manston Airport got sold quite recently, latter half of last year, also

[NickBarnes]

Yes of course Norwich will end up like Manston! Silly me :ugh:

[Phileas Fogg]

Nick,

Are you suggesting that it would be an impossibility that NWI would be closed in favour of real estate?

I worked at NWI and lived in NWI so I know the lie of the land, some prime land just off the outer ring road, even when I wast last living there more than 25 years ago they had electrified the London railway and housing development in Norwich was going "crazy".

So what has NWI got ... It's got FlyBE, yep Manston had FlyBE, it's got City Hopper, yep Manston had City Hopper also, it's got some helicopter business, yep Manston had helicopter business also, it's got a maintenance facility, yep Manston had that also, about the only difference between Norwich and Manson to me seems to be an ABZ route, some summer charters, and an Airport Development Fee!

[davidjohnson6]

Purely on commercial grounds, is it possible that turning NWI into a giant housing estate would be a money-spinner ? Yes, very possible

What is different between Manston and Norwich ? Extra 400k passengers per year

Would local or central Govt want to step in to make NWI's closure more difficult under the guise of planning law ? Would such a closure be politically acceptable ? Harder questions to answer

[NickBarnes]

Oh no of course it's not an impossibility, long into the future who knows but that could be said about so many of the UK's smaller regional airports, but for the foreseeable future yes it's pretty impossible.

so you are comparing Manston with Norwich.

Okay so Norwich has KLM Cityhopper yes but compared to Manston it is a whole differen't operation.

For 2013 the Manston route carried 35,854 now it did have less frequency than Norwich does and also it only started in April 2013 but.......

Norwich handled 132,056 passengers on that route, this was more for the year than; Belfast International 104,575, Cardiff 116,701, DTV 98,305, East Midlands 35,034, Exeter 35,356, Humberside 113,679, Southampton 103,524.

Now I know KLM don't operate at all of those airports, but at Cardiff, DTV, and Humberside they do, but Norwich was much higher, so Norwich remains an important base along with their maintenance and engineering which is strategically brilliant for KLM due to it's proximity of Amsterdam.

Flybe in fact only have their summer flight to Jersey, and now Loganair under the Flybe brand fly to Manchester and Edinburgh 3 times daily, choosing to base 3 aircraft and relocating crew and staff to the airport.

Norwich has a massive Helicopter operation compared to what Manston had serving the gas platforms and oil industry.

Norwich's Aberdeen Route saw 62,000 plus passengers a lot linked to the gas industry

Plus Holiday charter is growing year on year at the moment,

But the major thing to mention is Air Livery, currently planned to begin constructing a brand new 5 bay hanger painting facility, (north east section of the airport) at the 3rd quater of this year to bring all small to medium aircraft to be painted at Norwich, increasing movements by 10%.

now would they really be investing and building something like that if the airport had any sign of closing in the next few years..... no

The new owners also own Exeter and Coventry, have they been closed for housing nope in fact they reopened Coventry after it was shut previously.

But the major fact is this

Norwich's Total Aircraft movements 2013 = 40,702 (that was 20,000 more than Southend I believe)
Manston Total Aircraft movements 2013 = JUST 17,504

Norwich's Total Passenger Traffic 2013 = 463,401
Manston Total Passenger Traffic 2013 = 40,391

So from this we can see that Norwich is nothing like Manston was and im sure many people would agree with that.

So will it close in the foreseeable future NO
Into the Distant Future, who really can say!
:ok:

[NickBarnes]

As davidjohnson has said it would be a much harder challenge to get Norwich Airport turned into a housing estate, politically and for local residents of nearby small villages. so just another reason why for now it won't be closing any time soon but on those figures set out above in my previous post it would make closing Norwich a very unpopular decision

[no slots]

Some of those comparisons above are basically b*$$*"ks! Norwich is the 2nd busiest North Sea helicopter operation after Aberdeen with approx 70 flights a day. The summer charter market has grown significantly enough for Thomson to base an aircraft there this year and next with additional routes for next year. The ex Flybe Edinburgh route is now 3 x daily as is Manchester. There is, as already stated, a large development on the north side being started soon. Norwich is one of the fastest growing regional airports in the country. I think it would be safe to say that it's been sold as a going concern with hopefully a bit of money invested into the infrastructure to achieve this. But, as usual we will wait and see!
Manston v Norwich???? please!!!!:hmm:

[NickBarnes]

Least no slots has some common sense, good post:ok:

[jamesp]

So 3 x airports.....could it be mr rigby might start his own airline when he has enough airports. I dont think its going tp be to long before mr rigby starts his own airline.
He has devonshire and warwickshire now norfolk (apologies if norwich isnt in norfolk). My opinion is, he has the airports, the only thing next could only be...
On a seperate note he is doing well on business traffic at cvt. 737s and 757s are regular visitors at the airport. You get a fantastic view from the hangar bars balcony at the parked aircraft on the apron at cvt. I guess time will tell whats his plans are for the 3 airports.

[Musket90]

Also Rigby Group ( Regional City Airports Management) have interest in Blackpool and Derry

[tommynwi]

Any sign of new routes from Norwich in the pipeline??

Many thanks.

[JulieAndrews]

You would have thought nwi could afford some weed killer for the taxiways from the Airport Improvement Tax?

[NickBarnes]

tommynwi Any sign of new routes from Norwich in the pipeline??

Many thanks.


No sign of any new routes yet:)

[tommynwi]

Thanks for that info Nick. I have noticed on the thomson website that the new thursday dalaman flights are no longer available. The based aircraft looks as though it will operate ibiza on wednesdays with a W pattern to BHX, and tunisia on the thursday with a W pattern to BHX.

[NickBarnes]

Few weeks old news but Norwich has ski flights back for January and Febuary this winter.

To be operated by Intersky using their ATR 72's

News - Norwich Airport (http://www.norwichairport.co.uk/news.asp?id=388)

[NickBarnes]

For the 2015-2016 winter season Tenerife will increase to 2x weekly, from 1x weekly.

Days are Thursday and Sunday

About as exciting as it gets in terms of news at NWI:rolleyes:

[LXGB]

North Denes heliport: Future of Great Yarmouth airfield 'in jeopardy' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-30429411)

[NickBarnes]

shame about North Denes can only see it closing and all traffic to Norwich eventually.

side note,

Tenerife saw 1767 pax in Novemeber

177 pax average = 94% LF

hence Thomson increase next winter:ok:

[tommynwi]

Looks as though links air will be starting flights from Norwich to Cardiff. Starting on April 20. I do not know the frequency of the flights, but would expect them to be daily.

[TOM100]

Prob Mon-Fri as linked to onward service to Anglesey. Why this route choice ? It has been tried before and failed ? Linked to offshore ? it also has a three hour turnaround in NWI ? Something else ? Seems a little odd.

[pug]

Isn't the bloke contracted by then to develop routes also the same chap who had Loganair start the short lived NWI to Den Helder?

Something doesn't quite add up with this outfit.

[NickBarnes]

When it was tried before it managed 10-15 pax occasionally on a ATR, so on a 19 seat jet stream it might work, but that depends on price etc, but stranger things have happened.

Would have done better to do Norwich - Newcastle which I believe is the most requested domestic route that isn't served from NWI

[TOM100]

They have a 3 hour gap on ground at NWI - is a NCL service do-able in that time ?

[N707ZS]

Sounds like they would be better trying a Durham Tees Valley route, quick turn around and probably more offshore related passengers, Ncl passengers could drive South as there is less of a jam than driving North on the A1!

[litefoot1]

As predicted

LinksAir announce flights from Norwich to Cardiff and onwards to Anglesey

News - Norwich Airport (http://www.norwichairport.co.uk/news.asp?id=416)

[NickBarnes]

Wish them luck, looks like it has been aimed at the energy sector aswell so must be some expected demand now a days.

[EK77WNCL]

Based on 1 hour +/- 15 minutes flying time, NWI-NCL-NWI should be possible within 3 hours. 60 minutes for 3 turnarounds, 1 hour each way = 3 hours.

[TimmyW]

Pug - you seem to frequent several airline forums stating you know deep dark secrets regarding those running Links - what do you have against them?

[virginblue]

How could they operate routes to MME or NCL instead of CWL ? The aircraft is CWL-based because of the Anglesey-PSO. So it is either CWL-NWI or no route for NWI.

[NickBarnes]

There's a 3 hour gap at NWI where it sits on the ground

[tommynwi]

Newcastle is a route in which Norwich are pushing for. As Nick said, this is a highly requested route, but the only problem is... who? Maybe Eastern could do nwi-ncl-abz, I cant see flybe operating it as their own aircraft are too big, so maybe Loganair under the flybe brand using one of the based Dorniers.

[NickBarnes]

Indeed I believe Newcastle and now Dublin are the 2 most requested routes from NWI these days.

So I'm sure people in this part of the world would have rather the news of the new route being either Newcastle or Dublin, but never mind, can't be too picky :ok:

[NickBarnes]

Hi for those interested here is the Germania operating for Thomson Summer schedule for 2015

MONDAY
Norwich - Dalaman
07:00 - 12:45
Dalaman - Norwich
13:50 - 15:50

TUESDAY
Norwich - Palma Mallorca
07:50 - 11:15
Palma Mallorca - Humberside
12:30 - 14:15
Humberside - Palma Mallorca
15:25 - 19:05
Palma Mallorca - Norwich
20:05 - 21:45

WEDNESDAY
Norwich - Ibiza
06:50 - 10:30
Ibiza - Birmingham
11:30 - 13:00
Birmingham - Ibiza
14:25 - 17:55
Ibiza - Norwich
18:55 - 20:35

THURSDAY
Norwich - Tunisia
06:30 - 09:30
Tunisia - London Stansted
10:30 - 13:35
London Stansted - Tunisia
15:20 - 18:15
Tunisia - Norwich
19:15 - 22:15

FRIDAY
Norwich - Palma Mallorca
06:00 - 09:25
Palma Mallorca - Norwich
10:25 - 12:05
Norwich - Corfu
13:35 - 18:35
Corfu - Norwich
19:35 - 20:45

SATURDAY
Norwich - Palma Mallorca
08:00 - 11:25
Palma Mallorca - Norwich
12:25 - 14:05
Norwich - Menorca
15:35 - 19:00
Menorca - Norwich
20:00 - 21:25

SUNDAY
Norwich - Tenerife
09:00 - 13:35
Tenerife - Norwich
14:25 - 18:35

[munster]

It's a 737 again!

[NickBarnes]

Oh is it, thanks for that!

[ATNotts]

NickBarnes

Indeed I believe Newcastle and now Dublin are the 2 most requested routes from NWI these days.

Maybe, but as many airport and airline operators will tell you, "most requested" often fails to equate to "most used" as when it comes down to it, people's habits can be hard to break when booking the ticket.

[NickBarnes]

I agree and Norwich has more hurdles than other airports for any new routes, a £10 fee just for using the airport, which grates with most people is just a start.

Personally can't see any expansion in the future. Thomson has had the best success at the airport in recent times which is good, so they are the only source I can see for any new destinations in the future.

[litefoot1]

I was flying from Norwich to Manchester yesterday and was taking some photos in the Norwich check-in hall. I was immediately accosted by security and told to switch my camera off. My first experience of this after flying from 28 other UK airports so I was a bit miffed. The security area, yes, but not the check-in hall, surely? Does anyone know if this is exclusively a Norwich airport policy?

[virginblue]

No, I was told off for taking pictures a while ago at LDY - told I had to seek permission from the management for taking pictures....

[Centre cities]

I do not know what the policy is but at BHX yesterday a policeman was happily taking pictures of a stag do for the lads with their camera in the check in hall.

Centre cities

[tommynwi]

On a more positive note, Thomson will be launching flights to Paphos, Cyprus next summer from Norwich.

[NickBarnes]

I was told off at Stansted once, it was ridiculous!

Good news on the Cyprus route another one to add to the list, looking very good thomson's destinations now:ok:

[sparkie320]

any reason why Thomas cook have cancelled Tunisa flights from Norwich on the Fridays which was planned to operate

[LTNman]

Someone had a word in my ear at Luton once at the same time as the TV series Luton Airport was being shown. I guess this guy now works at Norwich. What a clown

[tommynwi]

Thomas Cook have not cancelled all their flights to Tunisia from Norwich, they are just operating a shorter season. Thomson have also cut back on the number of flights they will be operating to Tunisia from Norwich this summer. Maybe the attacks in Tunis earlier in the year have had a knock on effect on bookings??

[NickBarnes]

any reason why Thomas cook have cancelled Tunisia flights from Norwich on the Fridays which was planned to operate

do you mean why they have cut the current operating run to May 22nd - August 21st?

Big reasons for this have been a reported downturn in people wanting to travel to Tunisia following recent events etc

Also Thomson operate it from NWI on Wednesdays and also have a much bigger presence, but even they are operating for a shorter length this year, only until 24th September compared to late October last year :)

[EMB-145LR]

How have the loads been on the first few Cardiff flights? I can't imagine it would be too well patronised?

[MerchantVenturer]

Just two seats sold for the Anglesey to Norwich flight, but flights to Cardiff are booming from North Wales - Wales Online (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/just-two-seats-sold-anglesey-9067525)

A perusal of the linked newspaper report shows a reasonable start on the flights between Norwich and Cardiff. The headline refers to those travelling all the way between Anglesey and Norwich which aren't great in terms of numbers - to put it mildly.