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Flightman
28th Jun 2006, 20:04
Not sure if this is the right forum or not, so mods, please feel free to move.

I'll cover this by saying this isnt really my subject, just something I've come across, so apologies if I'm talking rubbish.

Got in a brief discussion about ADS-B rollout in the UK today, and a collegue of mine made the statemen that ADS-S in the UK wouldn't be complete until 2018, and currently of those aircraft using it, only 4% are transmitting the correct"stuff". The remainder are transmitting crap! I'm sure I heard a different date, and why would aircraft be transmitting crap.

Any links?

tilewood
28th Jun 2006, 20:30
Not sure if this is the right forum or not, so mods, please feel free to move.
I'll cover this by saying this isnt really my subject, just something I've come across, so apologies if I'm talking rubbish.
Got in a brief discussion about ADS-B rollout in the UK today, and a collegue of mine made the statemen that ADS-S in the UK wouldn't be complete until 2018, and currently of those aircraft using it, only 4% are transmitting the correct"stuff". The remainder are transmitting crap! I'm sure I heard a different date, and why would aircraft be transmitting crap.
Any links?


Try the Kinetic Avionics website. I am not advertising their products, you
may just find it interesting.

Flightman
28th Jun 2006, 20:46
Try the Kinetic Avionics website. I am not advertising their products, you
may just find it interesting.

I've looked there previously. This guy said Kinetic were muppets. :bored:

tilewood
28th Jun 2006, 22:53
I've looked there previously. This guy said Kinetic were muppets. :bored:


I would not dismiss Kinetic Avionics as 'muppets'. Their website may not meet
your requirements, but the dealings I have had with them have shown them to be not only a very innovative organisation, but also very helpful
and co-operative.

RevStar
28th Jun 2006, 23:17
Flightman et al

Depends what you want to use ADS-B for. If you can live with less than 100% equipage (by having other means of surveillance - admittedly an issue for the mosaic system), then ADS-B will be able to be used in anger a lot sooner.

The 4% figure comes from the fact that ADS-B signals include not only a basic position or velocity or identification, but also contain some form of estimation of integrity and accuracy of the data. This relies on GPS at present, which may not be able to maintain integrity levels (i.e. usually it is measured to 95% of the time - this is not acceptable for surveillance). Once Galileo comes online (with service level agreements implemented), the % of aircraft transmitting decent/usable data will climb rapidly. This is likely to be around 2010.

Also, aircraft are transmitting crap because ADS-B is not needed at present (and therefore the ADS-B signal is not standardised or certified for any operations). This will shortly change - the first intl standard is due to be published this autumn, and tighter controls will be put on the signal as ADS-B comes on line in Australia, Europe and the USA.

Incidentally, the USA has made a business case for dismantling radars over time, and replacing with ADS-B (+ some form of independent surveillance such as multilateration)... what price Europe going the same way over time? The only caveat is current investment decisions in Mode S SSR may delay this move.

Kinetic Avionics are just what the industry needed - innovative manufacturers who are able to think outside the normal barriers. They are currently targeting a different market to the conventional heavy metal (i.e. GA), but they have woken up manufacturers to what is possible.

This month's ATM magazine contains some useful articles on ADS-B for further reading.

RS.