Jet 2

[jet2.con]

A couple of questions:-

How much flying are we all doing around the bases? I for one am looking at less than 500 hours this year.

I know I probably shouldn't complain but as a newbie trying desperatley to accrue hours I cannot understand how the company can have crews just sat around at home?

I'm regularly on a 3 day week that's excluding standby days, but I am rarely called out! Is this normal for a lo co or a charter company in the summer months? What is this winter going bring flying wise? As i understand that the shedule is even more relaxed?

It has been suggested that we can have unpaid leave but alot of my collegues are saying whats the point because we fly so little.

As for the sector pay it worth about £8.50 to £10 a week to me and that is the only pay rise I have recieved this year, other companies seem to be getting bigger rises.

Thanks for any replies in advance it just that i'm so down hearted at the amount I fly and the amount I recive each month compared to my course clooegues who have gone to other companies.

All spelling mistakes are Beer induced!

[Ardacre]

Matey that sounds like jet 2 :mad: , do what most are doing and start looking elsewhere.

My complaints:-

There is little variation in a roster period you seem to pretty much fly the same routes with the same people. In the winter if you work out of Manchester get used to Gatwick, Edinburgh and Amsterdam, if you’re at Leeds get used to the Paris Belfast and again Amsterdam. Also get used to flying with the same people in the other seat. The rostering department don’t understand the meaning of the word ‘variety’. There are flight deck that I have never flown with and others that I fly with on a weekly basis.

You assessment of the flying hours flown is fairly typical but the Leeds guys seem to do slightly more hour over there.

There was a very loose rostering agreement about days off and not starting earlies after days off but this does not work most of the time as I regularly start the earlies after days off, in fact again the same faces do the earlies and the same faces fly the lates.

Sector pay was all hype but again was a disaster as it pretty much turned out to be a pay cut as it doesn’t even cover a cost of living rise.

On your days off why not join Balpa quite a few have joined recently.

Elizabeth reigns but here at JET2 confusion rules.:p

[jet2.con]

Thanks for the reply and advice but I sent my application off today as quite a few of my other work collegues have done recently.

[tonker]

Yeah good luck at Ryanair etc guys. 900 hours a year, tons of cash and burnt out by 50!

I wonder if you really have any idea how many wannabies would do almost anything to be in our position. I certainly suspect you didn't come throught the modular/instructing route.

Why the rush to build hours??????????:=

[Ardacre]

great reply TONK,

YOu have a job for life hey dude!
Just watch your T&C's go even further down the toilet with coments like that. Management will love you a true company man! Your one of Phils boys/girls.

Airbus, F27, BOH headquarters they were all Phils boys and girls once.

[Boeingmann]

Why the rush to build hours??????????


I guess the plan is to get 500 hours on type and then apply to other airlines who rejected these guys in the first place.

ARDACRE, you seem so unhappy at Jet2 is nobody else interested in your skill given the current market situation ???

[tonker]

Your right, i am a COMPANY man. I turn up, do a good job that i was contracted for and the COMPANY pays me. WOW

You still haven't answered my question about being modular/intergrated!!!

I sudgest before you start throwing imature statements about being phils boys/girls you know more about the person your referring too.

Boeingmann i share your suspicions.

[silverhawk]

In your short post you managed to include these mistakes.
your----you're
sudgest----suggest
imature----immature
phils----Phil's
i----I
too----to

If English is your native language, I can only hope your work standards are higher. If not, then good effort.

I am curious to know how you expect Ardacre to know your identity, bearing in mind the nature of this site.

I am very happy not to be pushing FTLs to their limit, or as Easyjet and Ryanair call them, Flight Time Targets!

[Ardacre]

Tonker,

You must be a fairly new starter to the company and from viewing your previous post have come from instructing into your first airline position here at Jet2.
I was once in the honeymoon period and thought that the airline was everything.
I will predict that in times to come your views will change as you get ground down even more and realise that the T&C’s are the lowest of any jet operator. :ugh:


Silverhawk,

Thanks for the support and I have just picked up you PM thanks for the info.

[tonker]

One of the saddest things about pprune is people who have nothing better to do than comment on spelling,very very sad.They usually offer very little content in return. Siverhawk please don't bother to address me on any of your comments and i'll do the same to you.

As for the terms and conditions in Jet2 being the lowest, i as an adult researched this before accepting the contract as i take you did. If you didn,t like the terms why sign and work for them!!!! Why not just leave and take your valuable skills elsewhere? The market is boyant after all.

All very sad:ugh:

[Boeingmann]

If you didn,t like the terms why sign and work for them!!!! Why not just leave and take your valuable skills elsewhere? The market is boyant after all.

Well said. I wonder why these so very ''knowledgeable'' people do not leave ? Could it be other airlines are simply NOT INTERESTED in them.

[Mucky Devil]

Jet2.Con - I'm relieved to hear that I am not alone at being fed up with the lack of flying hours. This summer, so far, seems to be much quieter than previous. I am at LBA and flew 550 for the past 12 months.
From October to May i flew 180 hours. I like time off but i don't fancy another 'winter' as quiet as that. Moneywise, some months the duty pay was below £100 and my sector pay for April was less than £10.
I agree with Ardacre's comments re rostering. It seems to be a repetitive pattern as to destination and captain. I know that training seems to be forever ongoing - maybe it will get even quieter when all the new guys are online!
I don't think it helps to be told to clear off if you don't like it. We may be in Yorkshire but the era of the mill owner mentality should be long gone.
Don't yet know if i'll stay or go, but the thought of another winter is very unappealing.

[silverhawk]

It may not be very PC of me to say so, but the pilots can walk any time they want to. As we know, there are many opportunities now and in the short-term future for pilots. Not quite the same scenario for ground-based staff though. In my view that is why the ground staff should have stuck with us when they had the option. No use crying over spilt milk.

That said, there are, as I've said before, those amongst us that are still here for good and individual reasons. Those reasons will only apply for so long. Eventually, if terms do not improve, enough will be enough and each individual will reach his/her point of topple.

Perhaps this is why the management have approached some of us lately to glean some idea of how we would improve some of our terms. I applaude the fact there has been a modicum of consultation and involvement.

[Colin Monkfish]

I rarely pay little interest in this site, let alone bother to resond to anyone.
But your cras and tunnel visioned views about this company have woken me from my slumber!
I am in no doubt the same boat as ardacre and silverhawk, who are actually at this company because we,
1. like the people (present company accepted)
2. like residing in either blackpool, leeds etc.
with that in mind we are perhaps prepared to fight for some T&C's that reflect a 'reasonable' standard in the industry.
If this doesn't improve we will vote with our feet, simple as that.
Be wise to the fact that contracts are sometimes signed under duress, who would nrmally agree to '4' months as a notice period if there was something else on the table.
Your satisfaction at the company's T&C's is very very sad, you obviously have no aspirations to further yourselves, and at a guess knowing some of the ****e we have in both left and right seat, who would not get a job as a chock in any other airline are fairly or unfairly grouped into that category.

[ILS Repeater]

I find it sad that each time a Jet2 related thread appears on pprune, it's not long before it degenerates into a slanging match.
Yes Jet2 has some fine people working for it.
Yes the terms and conditions need to improve.
Most of us who work here do so because we want to, not because we are forced to. Infact some of us are being forced to seek employment elswhere.
I strikes me that some of the contributers to these threads need to act a little more grown up, you are after all supposed to be professional personnel.

ILS

[touch&go]

Let me see the national average wage in the UK is £27,000, are you earning less?

In years to come with command you will more than likely be earning 2 to 3 time the average national wage and you’re not happy?

Working 2 days a week and you’re moaning?

Must pass you're complaints to my friends who earn crap pay for long hours and will post back there thoughts.

I’m flying a 737 for another company, more money would be nice, but please please what an easy job we have, maybe you lot should have had another career before daddy paid for your training and you might realise what a good life we have.

[tonker]

I was instructing 7 days a week when i could, and often drove trucks and vans to top up my cash, so sure i look upon my employment with rose tinted glasses. I repeat i was fully aware of the t&c's before i signed my contract.

Nobody bullied us or gave us a hard time(except Jackie in first aid!!!)

Maybe the rest of this thread should contain sudgestions as to what t&c's they would like to receive, and point out to the inexperienced here(me) what's been removed since they signed the contract.

Regards

[aviate2day]

I hope if everyone was face to face that there wouldn't be the mud slinging that goes on here.
Everyone has different priorities in life, you could be:-
20 straight out of training
no family
married 3 kids
other hobbies or business interests
etc the list is endless
For me Jet2 were and are the employer of choice.
Most of the guys who want the hours are yearning for a command. I would also like that in due course. But then on the other hand I get to take my daughter to and from school 2-3 times a week. It won't be long before she doesn't want Dad to do that any more. For me thats important, I can wait the extra year it will take for the hours. Nevermind if I'm suitable at that time as well!
Sure I could apply for easy or tfly. But I'd be commuting a further 2 hours everyday, personally that isn't worth the money.
Currently we don't work as hard as the other carriers, but it may only be a matter of time before that changes. One reason we're quiet is due the lack of 2 airframes that should have come for this summer. So there are probabley 10 extra crews around the network. But they still took the guys on. If what I here is true they'll need 20-25 crews extra on both fleets by next summer.
I would like to see the T+C's improve. But that will only come with negotiation, as there is never enough money in the pot. Or if they can't attract enough experienced people to the company.
As of today I'm in it for the long term, but in this industry it can all have changed by tomorrow.:ok:


Here's my wish list:-
Pension contribution same as the Captain
Sector pay in proportion to the Captain
Private Health
Descent PHI, LOL
Opportunity for Day Off working at a realistic payment
-
Oh and don't forget the 10% pay rise.
-
That little lot will cost the company at least £2,000,000 a year.
Would you willinglly shell that out if it was your company.
-
It will take a few years to get that but I'm sure it can be done by a committed team.
Now standing by with fire extinguisher for usual flaming people get.

[silverhawk]

I had a proper job in the past, used to work 80plus hours a week and it was hot, hard physical graft. Stands me in good stead because I'm still fairly handy with the tools. I then paid out about £35k of my own money, not Daddy's, to move into something I loved and thought would only ever be a dream.
Fifteen years later I still love it even though there is always someone trying to spoil some aspect or other.

What the hell has national average salary got to do with a profession that costs 4 times national average salary to qualify for?

Aviate2day, no flaming, seems pretty reasonable to me.

[AIRWAY1UK]

aviate2day-
how right you are. I totally agree with what you say, and was about to write a very similar post.
It just goes to show YOU WILL NEVER PLEASE ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME!

I CHOSE Jet2 as my employer because what I saw suited my needs, and having worked for the company long enough to see it inside to out I still stand by my choice of airline to work for. IT WORKS FOR ME!!! In no particular order, I live exactly where I want to. I work a reasonable amount of hours, at a reasonable time of day, with flexibility in the system to suit personal needs should I need it, AND I am aware the T&C'S are not the best in the industry but work out the hourly rate and it's not bad.


I suggest those who dont like it , for whatever reason focus their attention on filling out an application form to whichever airline does 'SUIT YOUR NEEDS' rather than wasting your efforts trying to knock down an airline that is being very successful in what it does, and for a large proportion of the silent
majority works very well for.


My opinion!

[Colin Monkfish]

the company has more money in the pot than u would believe, you only need to look at their P&L accounts , balance sheets and dividend/quarterly results to see this. It is an insult with the way they are treating so called 'valued' members of their crew.

Just look at their expansion plans 100 crews by next year, 10 airframes, you really think this is coming from a company that has little in the pot.
The amount of money paid to the ex 300 boys giving them Stn bases or to a training capt who has retained Boh as a base, an absolute insult to us all.
They even had the audacity to try and charge for jet2 lanyards, 2 quid a pop... what sort of company does this!

I want to be able to say i work for jet2 amongst other colleages in other airlines and feel proud, i couldn't feel any more embarrassed.

Lets just see what happens when they try and get crews for these 10 new a/c. It will be the same old story, f/o's not a problem. Capts will be promoted with the usual 2500 hrs regardless of quality (and there are now hardly any f/o's who fit the hour requirement, all already been promoted), they are even talking about new promotions with a change of type at the same time...........:eek:
The classic case of doing whatever they can 'get away with'. Instead of trying to attract quality with decent t&c's

And as for the a/c they will be knackered old heaps as usual, a guaranteed accident waiting to happen

[Boeingmann]

Tonker and Aviate2day, great posts in the past not enough people at Jet2 posted the positive aspects of the job. :D


Silverhawk, thanks for the PM. I don't speak German hope that helps.

[giovane]

Hi Guys,
All I would say is if you are flying 500 hrs per year on Shorthaul its just about perfect.
I promise you that as the years roll on all companies will work their crews harder to compete with other locos and to improve the bottom line.

I can understand crews wanting more hours to improve CMD prospects but bear in mind 800-900hrs per year is not good for you, increased exposure to radiation, more early start late finishes to upset the circadian rythym leading to more body stress, earlier death ( research suggests ), limited financial return due to low sector/hourly rate, less time at home.

Few people say they wish they had worked more when they eventually meet their maker.

I love 500hrs per year.

With plenty of spare time as available use it to set up a business for a second income to offset the poor pension.

Regards

[Boeingmann]

I want to be able to say i work for jet2 amongst other colleages in other airlines and feel proud, i couldn't feel any more embarrassed.



And as for the a/c they will be knackered old heaps as usual, a guaranteed accident waiting to happen


Amazing statements, I am sorry that you feel this way. What has a Training Captain's base in any way connected with your situation. Given you are making the above statements don't you think it is time for you to MOVE ON ??

[3Greens]

It may not be very PC of me to say so, but the flightdeck can walk any time they want to. As we know, there are many opportunities now and in the short-term future for flightdeck..


FLightdecks walking?? i didn't know they can do that? :rolleyes: Ahh, you must be referring to the follk that work ON the flightdeck. That'll be flightcrew then..aka pilots. Or should i start calling people head office/passenger cabin/refuelling bowser etc...:ugh:

[Colin Monkfish]

Of course a trainers base has everything to with it.
The company are paying him/her/it full duty rate for the whole roster as 'away from base' expenses, therefore taking more money out of the pot that could be put to fairer and better uses for crew. It is an insult to our intelligence having a chief trainer based where we are currently pulling out of.
Even I would have credited u for gleaning that....

[aviate2day]

The company does have a good financial base and a good thing too.
But at the end of the day it isn't our train set.
Like any business the object is to get as much money out of your pocket and into mine.
Please make all cheques payable to aviate2day.com:p
.
Not wishing to steer this off in another direction but a solid CC and union rep may have helped the afore mentioned 300 guys etc. Just a thought.

[silverhawk]

You astute old sage.

The post is now edited to your satisfaction I hope. I was using 'flightdeck' as opposed to 'aircrew' to differentiate between pilots and cabin crew, but I suspect that you knew that already.

[ILS Repeater]

FLightdecks walking?? i didn't know they can do that? :rolleyes: Ahh, you must be referring to the follk that work ON the flightdeck. That'll be flightcrew then..aka pilots. Or should i start calling people head office/passenger cabin/refuelling bowser etc...:ugh:

This post illustrates my earlier point about immature comments, rather than make a valid point, this poster tries to belittle another. We all know what is meant by the term flightdeck in this context.

ILS

[3Greens]

ILS repeater you willnote from the rolling-of -eyes smilie that the one i inserted was for sarcasm!! Ok Ok so i know it's supposedly the lowest form and all that. And the valid point of your post is??? Yes, flightdeck is the term that has derived from cabin crew it seems for us pilots; but none-the-less, annoying to be called one. ;)
I bow to your greater wisdom and can only dream of the day i acheive full maturity.
Ok so back on thread...i position regularly from MAN and chat to a few Jet2 crews, some seem happy with their lot - some don't. I would bet that the 500hrs lark won't be around for long though. Make the most of it.

[ILS Repeater]

Sorry 3Greens, perhaps I was a little harsh, but we at Jet2 seem to get more than our fair share of bashing.

On the whole Jet2 is not a bad place to work. I for one will be sad to leave come November.

[jet2.con]

Hello again,

I was just wondering why on the current roster the Block hours, number of sectors and duty time are missing this seem to happen sometimes and then on other occasions it is printed.

Is the reason that they dont what us to know what we are flying sector duty and block wise?:D

We are flying so little that its not hard to add up!

No flying again today, So I am also now updating my CV and looking for somewhere else to go work!:ok:

Good luck all.

[ls_jet2]

I've kept out of thing before, but I'm going in at the deep end here. I'm quite happy to be flying 2 or 3 days per week, it makes for a nice gentle pace of life. I get to see my family lots more than most other Lo-Co pilots, and I get to do some flying on my days off from the family routine. I'll bet you that most Ezy/RYR/Baby pilots would love the life we have!

Ok, I know that our T & C's are below par, hopefully things will improve, but I think it'll be next year before they do. As has been said previously, there's a limit for everyone to how far they can be pushed in this respect before they decide to vote with their feet.

Jet2.con - if it's not for you then that's fine, go ahead and leave, but don't come back in 18 months to someone here bleating that you're knackered and never get any quality time off:= , because that's the other side of the coin.:uhoh: Good luck with whatever you decide, but don't be too hasty.:ok:

[Mucky Devil]

Boeingman: Why are you always telling crew to clear off? No doubt you have got some of what you want and so stuff everyone elses' aspirations. If we all leave then maybe you will have less competition for your unfulfilled aspirations? Even better, you can go back to being the Channex Flying Club with its p1ss-poor SOP's and nepotism. Jet2 need to recruit and involve experienced crew to raise its standards. It needs improved T&C's. How embarrassing to have our Altimeter calls forcibly changed by CAA. What other company promotes a new captain to line trainer in the timespan that we do. I think your attitude is unhealthy for the company. 'Company men' are always 'yes men' and they are always like that for their own personal gain whilst rubbishing anyone elses' criticism which may be healthy for the company. I've experienced at Jet2 the very worst woeful Tech Instruction from 'yes men' climbing greasy pole of success. Jet2 doesn't need any more of the Country Club in training roles. It is heading for serious trouble if it doesn't evolve from its past.

[Boeingmann]

Of course a trainers base has everything to with it.
The company are paying him/her/it full duty rate for the whole roster as 'away from base' expenses

You clearly have a bee in your bonnet about a particular Trainer and the fact the A300 guys have gone onto the 757. So long as the Trainer gives value, which I believe is the case, I have no problem with HER base being at BOH or any other place. As to the A300 guys, I would have thought you would be pleased that the company has done the right thing by them and transferred them onto the 757.

I say again, given your current attitude it is best you MOVE ON.

[Boeingmann]

I've experienced at Jet2 the very worst woeful Tech Instruction from 'yes men' climbing greasy pole of success. Jet2 doesn't need any more of the Country Club in training roles. It is heading for serious trouble if it doesn't evolve from its past.


I hope you have informed the Training Dept. about your experience. As to my attitude, I simply say it as I see it.

[aviate2day]

Hello again,

I was just wondering why on the current roster the Block hours, number of sectors and duty time are missing this seem to happen sometimes and then on other occasions it is printed.

Is the reason that they dont what us to know what we are flying sector duty and block wise?:D

We are flying so little that its not hard to add up!

No flying again today, So I am also now updating my CV and looking for somewhere else to go work!:ok:

Good luck all.

No fella its just sometimes the one they email doesn't have the totals. Todays hard copy had the totals on. :rolleyes:

[boxjockey99]

Mucky Devil:

"How embarrassing to have our Altimeter calls forcibly changed by CAA."

Just to clarify the CAA did not enforce the change to the new Altimeter call outs they were a responce to the new FODCOM regarding altimeter call outs and the powers that be were given a choice of two options prior to the introduction of a new normal checklist for the B757. It was at this point that the company decided to standardise the altimeter SOP's across fleets following differences imposed by our involvement with Titan and also to comply with said FODCOM.

"you can go back to being the Channex Flying Club with its p1ss-poor SOP's and nepotism

Channex, in my experience, has never been a 'flying club' mentality certainly nothing compares to some smaller operations. In my time here (5 or so years) it has been guilty of certain faults but in the main it is a professional operation which has grown rapidly and is learning from its mistakes. As for experieced pilots well we have our fair share which have been documented on many other threads.

"I've experienced at Jet2 the very worst woeful Tech Instruction from 'yes men' climbing greasy pole of success. Jet2 doesn't need any more of the Country Club in training roles."

Poor tech instruction from who? was this a line trainer or ground school? Both TS and PW are excellent ground school instructors and most external people joining the company have had nothing but praise for their instruction. As to your instruction on the line well it depends who done it!

Jet2.con

I seem to be netting about 80hrs a month on the 737-stretch (757) the hours will come in time I assure you and it really is a nice place to work ust relax and enjoy not having to pay for the flying and having many days off.


Please can we get back to the point here and get away from the usual 'we hate jet2' responces. If you don't like it then no one is forcing you to stay. Some companies fit some and not others and if you feel unhappy then this is simply not the company for you and I wish you luck finding the place where you will feel happy. But please don't draw into question the professionalism of a very hard working friendly and dedicated workforce!

Happy trails

Boxjockey99

[ILS Repeater]

Well said boxjockey... if people have genuine specific issues, why not direct them to your Base Captain or fleet Captain so that they may be addressed and hopefully recified. Far better than making sweeping statements in this forum adding amunition to the usual Jet2 bashers.

[Oggy]

In response to the constant Jet2 Bashing that has taken place on this site in the past, there is now a Jet2 Forum.
If you are a Genuine Jet2 colleague and not afraid to use your real name. You are more than welcome to Join. Contact myself, Boxjockey99 or silverhawk for details.
If you want to take part in a real debate with real people come along, if you need to vent or seek the advice of anonymous experts stay here:ugh:

[me109]

I have to strongly disagree with the comment regarding the national wage average . So what if pilots earn more than the national average .
Its like any commercial venture , if you invest large ammounts of money , you expect a return . My training cost me £110,000 , i did not invest this money to earn the national average . Commercial flying is not a vocation , it is a profession . If some people wish to have a communist mentality , then ask your local GP or accountant to accept the national average wage .
The T&C's at Jet2 at the moment are below par . OK , we dont work 900hrs a year , but we are not given that opportunity .
Things must improve , otherwise do we go back to "WILL WORK FOR FOOD".:\

[luddite]

To get back to the original question I'm doing the square root of sod all. 25 hours in May and about the same in June. But with truly awful rostering. Started back last week after leave straight onto an 0500 BFS - CDG, followed by five days of standby, only to be called out for a late AGP on the last one.

For me at least the new rostering guidelines are not working and the 'pay rise' of sector pay equals a pay drop.

:ugh:

[rudolf]

Not like that where I am, 70 hours in May, 50 in June, 55 on the new roster. Have to agree about the rostering 'guidelines', many late finishes and early starts.

R

[bartelby]

Not surprising as the guidelines were agreed with someone who does not know anything about rostering!!!
3 aircraft down for the summer before you start, guess why the lack of hours.
Bad slot scheduling by commercial (not crew friendly), engineering inputs always running late. One fire after another.
I was under the impression the 75 Boh based capt was being shat on along with the rest of us in Boh?
Believe me I have worked in some prity crap ops departments in my time and Jet2's is not the best but my no means the worst. Anyway in 4-6 months you will find out just how bad it can get!!!!

Wishing you all future happiness in you job :cool:

Bartelby

[freightdoggy dog]

So did you get shortlisted for Club328 then Bartelby?

You lot were certainly thirsty,not a drop of Champers left on Friday was there!!!

Anyway, wishing you all well, what ever the future holds.

P.S the GS office is now "to let" on very favourable terms, although there is still one sitting tenant , contact Allerton Realtors.

[ILS Repeater]

All the best doggy.... you left so quick didn't have time to say bye!

Sitting tennant not too impressed, he left shortly after you !

[giblets]

Am off to LBA-FAO late Aug, do jet2 have a policy on jump seats? Have yet to get one. Any help, advice most appreciated.

[Pilot Pete]

The DfT set the rules regarding jumpseats and unless you are one of a select group of individuals you will not be allowed into the flightdeck.

PP

[boxjockey99]

Jet2.com rules require you to be a member of one of three clubs to get a jumpseat ride:

Jet2.com staff
ATC Staff
CAA inspectorate

If you are not in those groups then there is NO CHANCE of getting access to the pointy end in flight. Having said that if you approach us on the ground then I would say most crews will quite happily let you come and have a look around workload permitting. FAO flights will be on the B757 so the turnarounds are slighty longer but the parking tends to require busses which limits your time on board after arrival.

Hope that helps

Box

[giblets]

Cheers for that, been on that flight a few times, do FAO charge more fo rhte finger jetty's? The whole place was dead last time i was there, but still used the old buses.

Was hoping to get a Landing, as I have been to a fair few cockpits when i was a lad! But cheers for the advice.

[boxjockey99]

Giblets

I think 99% of flight crews would love to still have visitors during the flight but its the DfT and the Campaign Against Aviation that have our hands firmly tied!:(

Box

PS PM me the dates and if I'm driving I'll be more than happy to chat on the ground!

[Cloud Chaser]

You guys really need to get some perspective. Talk to anyone at Ryan, Easy, Flybe etc and you'll be told what life is like when you fly 900 hours a year. I do, and frankly 500 hours sounds like bliss. Enjoy it while you can.

[tornado15]

ME109, you say we are not given the opportunity to work 900 hours a year. If you want that opportunity go to one of the operators that do :{ . The reason most people stay with Jet2 is because they don’t want to work 900 hours a year, but rather have a life to go with the job.

[maat]

True, but with regard to lifestyle:

I don't fly what is on the roster; the roster is constant change and disruption. I don't fly that much compared to the RYR, EZE & BMI pilots, but the flying I do is often with minimum rest and of late and for the rostered future I seemed to have late finishes and early starts around days off. I have similar days off every week.

The leave we get is watered down because we are not always given wrap round days around leave. We were promised two wrap round days around periods of leave of 6 days or more, but the reality is we don't always get it. Unlike the office staff who get 9 days off for 5 days leave, starting leave Friday night and returning Monday morning.

For aircrew to achieve a guaranteed 9 days off; i.e. a normal leave week, we have to book 9 days leave. Our leave entitlement is 28 days plus bank holidays to total 36 days leave a year, or 4 weeks if taken as individual weeks. We can request 2 days off around leave, but that is not guaranteed any more than the wrap round leave days are.

The lifestyle is only acceptable because winter is quiet; the airline is very seasonal. That will change as the airline grows.

[MANBLK]

Maat,

Which Jet2 do you work for?!

At Manchester, my roster is almost never changed and I've been near minimum rest only once this year.

Agreed about earlies after days off/lates before days off but surely that's what we would expect. However it would be useful if we didn't get this before and after leave. An 0630 report after coming back from holiday late the night before is a bit of a shock.

Re leave, if I want 9 days off I bid for 7 days leave with a Request Day Off on each end. So far it has always been approved and the RDO's guaranteed at the same time as the leave is announced. Okay, I then miss out on that month's two RDO's elsewhere, but that's my choice.

Usually when the roster comes out there's an extra day off at one or both ends of the leave which is useful if you have flexibility for your holiday. If you don't, then it's a day off wasted but it can take the pressure off a tight timescale.

Currently the Jet2 lifestyle is very acceptable, but I agree that it will change as the airline grows. Enjoy it while it lasts.........

[silverhawk]

For the last three rosters I've worked 8, 9 and then 10 days. One week of leave in all that. Fantastic. Must be the most friendly work pattern of all the locos.

As always though, more money would be nice. Swings and roundabouts I guess.

[bartelby]

Good post MANBLK

Know how the system works and you will get rewarded. Its not rocket science use your request days off around your leave problem solved.

I am guessing matt is LBA based they seem to get the brunt of the roster disruption mainly due to commercial and engineering issues. Aircraft shortage and bad schedule planning are constant problems also. I am a sure these problem will all be sorted once the train set is fully in LBA...

Bartelby

[Boeingmann]

Bartelby; why is the early finish/ late start on the roster not working. Was it wishful thinking on the part of ID ???:(

[jet2.con]

To get back on thread,

I realise that I may seem to be complaining but I do want to unfreeze my ATPL, I need 1500hrs total time and 500 Multicrew. Seen as I joined the company with an ink wet CPL at the rate i am accruing hours it will take me three years and that doesn't include waiting for the sim as I have to do a skill test. If we were busier I would unfreeze quicker.

I also understand others points of view who have the experience, 'that it is more of a life style issue'.

[Oggy]

Jet2.con, look on the bright side, you do have a job on a jet with a new CPL. Many of us would have been over the moon to be anywhere near a Jet with a Full ATPL a few years back.
Most Turboprop operators wouldn't have been interested in you with less than a thousand hours. You are lucky to be employed at a time and in a company that will provide you with opportunity to progress whatever direction you decide to go.
The Jet2 Forum is up and running with 55 members as of tonight, if you have any points you want to discuss.

[boxjockey99]

Jet2.com

Back in the day when new recruits were made to work for a living flying ancient F27's or if you were really lucky even more ancient Electra's we were getting just 3-500hrs per year and you were glad of that. Your hrs will build in good time and with that will come experience. Enjoy the 737 and the lifestyle. I only had my ATPL unfreeze last year after 3 years flying here so chill out and start learning the ATPL is not the B all and end all of life I assure you!

Box

[Smudger]

Hear hear, Box! If I were a young lad in the right seat of a 737 I'd be right chipper no mistake. Just enjoy it and remember how badly you wanted to be where you are right now. You've made it on to the ladder, so relax, the progression will come!

[boxjockey99]

Plus if you've got more timeoff you have more opportunity spend your beer vouchers on what they are intended unlike me who keeps getting 6 days on the trot!

Box

[maat]

Back in the F27/Electra days there were no other jobs.

Given that the whole industry is facing a shortage of pilots, does one:

Enjoy the life style, chill out, go the parties and listen to the bull,

or

Get a job with an airline with a proper seniority and promotion policy and decent pay; and be busy enough to ensure that when the call for command does come, you don't get chucked off the command course because you don't have enough hours? As has happened to some FO's on command courses recently.

It is not PC to state, I know: That the opportunities available to the aspiring FO are probably linked to the aptitude and intelligence of the individual concerned.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Hey, BJ99

No wonder you're so slim if you keep getting 6 days of the trots:} :} :yuk:

Give me the easier life, the hours come steadily enough, it's just a shame that they really don't give us enough beer tokens.:{

JFP

[luddite]

Where's this alleged up-and-running Jet2 forum chaps?? Do you mean the MSN group? Can't find owt on PPRuNE. Maybe just braindead after getting home at 3 o'clock (am) on first day off and bracing to drive back on my last day off for an 0550 somewhere kak.
I am told that at the base captains' meeting last week there was no interest or even belief in our general pissed-offness with rostering.
:ugh:

[Boeingmann]

Luddite; I asked the question about early finish late start in earlier post but to-date no reply :confused: .

[Oggy]

Luddite and Boieingmann it being discussed on the Jet2 Forum check your PM's.

[silverhawk]

Luddite and others, the Jet2 forum is not on Pprune. The Mods were too busy to arrange it for us.

The address is coming out on Company advisory soon or call me.

note no 'www.

Real names only so think twice before you post anything.

[Oggy]

It’s Real names, to give it some credibility. If it's not worth saying face to face it’s probably not worth saying. :)

There is always the option of PM to someone who is bigger or braver than yourself to pass your message on. The current fleet Rep and a few others are willing to do this.

So far there is a positive response from all sides, it is only a means of communication, but at least you know who you're talking too.

The questions asked so far have been answered.

[bartelby]

Boeingmann sorry missed your question

I think very wishful thinking (e.g. telling you what you want to hear)

The Lba base will never work due to bad commercial scheduling, with no thought about crew patterns or utilization. Personally I think the Man base works (but I guess you dont). If you start on a early you finish on a early (5 consec) with the bonus of a rest day before you start extra to your 10 days off. Which usually means if you start on a late you finish on a late (downside).
Again Lba is a very different animal no consec early options and alot of tight crew utilization and poor aircraft planning, which equals a very unstable roster. Luddite I have simpathy with you but not living close to your base does not help your cause.
Anyway now is the time for you to put your views forward as come dec you will be working from a virtually cleans slate rostering wise. Then you might just realise how good life was!!!

Bartelby

[Ivan aromer]

I hear the training manager is on the way out. Bit of a short tenure?

[CAP509castaway]

And your point is???

[boxjockey99]

I think you'll find his hand was forced by the move to LBA nothing more sinister than that.

[maat]

Pity.

Nice bloke, good trainer & from what I could see, good manager.

[boxjockey99]

Maat

I agree completely he has done an awful lot of very good work with us and he is a very nice chap to boot. Good luck to you Frank where-ever you are going!

Box

[luddite]

Bartelby

Please don't think I have any personal gripe with with you guys, I know you do the best you can with what you've got. I'm just annoyed that 'they' put out this propaganda about new improved rostering and then don't deliver. For whatever reason.
And no, living here doesn't make for an easy life (doesn't make for ANY life), yes I accept it's my choice, but the main reason I live here is because I was stupid enough to move for an airline and I don't intend making that mistake again.

December will indeed be interesting(?) I wish those of you who are electing to stay put down south with your homes and families well with whatever comes next.