London Heli Lanes

[maxvne]

Hi All whats the best routing from Battersea to Elstree Aerodrome flying in a twin engine helicopter

Thanks

Max

[Ed Thrust IV]

Battersea to Brent resevoir, then the 133 radial from Bovingdon all at 1500' is the normal twin routing. This should bring you out of the zone just south of Elstree.

[maxvne]

Many thanks Ed and can you fly the same route back into Battersea from Elstree?

[AlanM]

Max - yes you can... again level at 1500ft.

All this is subject traffic into LCY/Northolt and Battersea itself. When busy expect routing to Vauxhall Bridge and North to Alexandra Palace.

[maxvne]

Thanks everyone for the info

Max

[verticalhold]

Max;

I'd strongly suggest taking someone more experienced with you first time if you can, I think AlanM would concur with that one. The LHR/LCY zones are not a good place for DIY instruction. Also don't forget that if you are going into Battersea you need a dual check and briefing from ATC on arrival. Chances are however that you already know the zone from flying singles/mil around it in which case all of the above is totally irrelevant!

VH

[AlanM]

Indeed - good points VH!

We get a lot of aircraft that are not regulars doing smallish mistakes that can cause a bit of chaos.

Very recently, a local operator flew down H7 at 1500ft instead of 1000ft. Therefore there was less than 500ft separation from traffic landing on 27L at LHR - and there were quite a few TCAS probs and losses of separation (gets investigated as a level bust and "airprox" in the same way as two 747s 500ft apart!)

Not trying to put you off - just need to emphasise that prior briefing/famil can save you! Enjoy the views.... but stay on the ball!! I HATE PAPERWORK:)

[Brilliant Stuff]

I would have thought ATC would have told him to stick it to 1000', or am I being naive?

[AlanM]

You are being naive.

When someone is cleared "STANDARD OPERATING ALTITUDES" then we expect you to fly as cleared and as published.

Yes, if we spot it we can shout at you - but there is more than one aircraft on frequency at a time (and it was under the Heathorw inbound at the time so garbled).

[Oogle]

I strongly recommend VerticalHold's suggestion of getting checked out on the heli-lanes & Battersea Heliport (this is a requirement anyway).

I got checked out and it worked a treat (thanks RP & GW). Got a good look at the sights at the same time. :D

[Brilliant Stuff]

When someone is cleared "STANDARD OPERATING ALTITUDES" then we expect you to fly as cleared and as published.
.

That would do it, plus that nifty map one has got with the lanes on.

[verticalhold]

The nifty maps great. Just wish the b:mad: s would put the temporary lanes on it to save the hassle of marking it up for Ascot/Epsom :ugh: . A quick comparison at Ascot this year showed 7 pilots with 7 slightly different versions of H6 and H8! They all went to the relevant OS grid references but all wove about slightly differently to get there, mostly on the bit between Bushy Park and Shepperton. Rather too close to LHR for mistakes that bit:E

The tiny drawing which comes with the brief appears to follow the railway north around Kempton Park to the A3 M3 interchange ( The way I went first time until corrected, very politely by 125.62) rather than across the racecourse to the same interchange.

Also the H6 Ascot joining point at the Temple follows the north bank of Virginia Water and not the south as a lot of guys were doing.

All pilots should now join me in storming the West Drayton bunker to demand the temporary lanes being permanently marked on the map.

I can just imagine AlanM defending the building a la Holy Grail film with Bronwen from NSFs in medieval pointy hat and Mal oiling the thumb screws and rack!!!

[Bravo73]

<snip> to demand the temporary lanes being permanently marked on the map. <snip>

But, vh, (in the cartographers' and Special's defence), if the TEMPORARY lanes were marked on the chart then they would be presumed to be permanent and hence people would ask for them (when they wouldn't be available, albeit for a few days of the year. Bearing in mind that the traffic for Ascot and Epsom is just a fraction of all heli movements through the zone throughout the year).

And, yes, I'm aware that if Heathrow are on 27, the 'unofficial' Burnham/Ascot (ie H11) lane will often be granted if it sounds like you know what you're doing.

And judging by some of the comments above, it seems as if there are pilots who try and navigate through the lanes without reference to the helilanes chart. It's no wonder Special get exasperated at times!

[verticalhold]

Bravo73;

Apologies I didn't make myself clear enough. Surely there must be some way of having the temporary lanes on the map, but clearly marking them as temporary. I'm one of the lucky ones who spend so much time in the zone that if I'm asked to forget one clearance and do something completely different I can do it with a bit of thought and concentration. Under pressure (slots, pax, company and muppetry) I wouldn't want to try the temporary routes without spending quite some time marking the map (see previous post) and studying where they go.

Unfortunately it seems not all of us do this and problems result. I have just re-read this years' Ascot brief and although the OS references are all there the picture at annex B showing the route is very hard to see clearly even when you are sober. However Annex B shows the normal routes with their normal oblong markings and the temporary routes with a series of circular dots.

I dislike poor airmanship in my colleagues and I'm afraid that I feel that getting off route in the zone or not following a clearance is indicative of poor airmanship.
However the march on West Drayton is still on. Tuesday after tea if my mummy will let me, so tell AlanM to start boiling the oil:E

[AlanM]

VH What the yakkety-yak have the CAAs maps got to do with me!?!?!? :)

I have seen your flight planning and flying accuracy, and quarter mil, fag packet and a thick marker pen has always worked for you!!

Anyway - I thought that you pros refused to fly anything without a moving glass map..... :ok:

Bravo73...BRAVO AND HEAR HEAR!:p

[verticalhold]

AlanM;

The aircraft has lots of telly screens and moving maps, the trouble is you want to be looking outside in such busy airspace, not working out which bit of kit is taking you where or getting you lost as the case might be! In fact I often think that over-reliance on the kit is what causes problems in the first place rather than old fashioned eyes out of the window, finger on the map navigation. Use all the toys in their proper places.

I know you are not responsible for the mappery we use, but the mental image of you in chain mail and dodgy french accent defending West Drayton has kept my poor brain amused all morning!

[AlanM]

Keep your fantasies to yourself!!!!??

Don't you heli boys and girls have any jobs to do?????????? :ok: You are gonna have to come and see us at West Drayotn and see us in the body armour mate.

Alan
Knight of the Zone

[Brilliant Stuff]

You better get yourself ready with the armour, since I have been thinking for a while now to come and visit you down there in the bunker to find out why you can not always see me on Radar and how come it always sounds like you speak from the other end of the tunnel?:hmm:

[AlanM]

BS - roll your dice and take your chance!!!

1. We can never see you you as The Times fits well on our Radar.
2. We sound **** 'cause we operate from an Icom in the restaurant!!!!!

PM me for visiting hours at the open prison............

[Brilliant Stuff]

:} :} :} :} :}

[verticalhold]

Careful Brilliant Stuff. AlanM's working environment is not for the faint hearted! Its a world of permanent night, the light has been banished and the sound deadening is a bit like sensory deprivation interrogation.

Having spent an hour sitting at the consol with a controller down there I was delighted to get back into the daylight and fresh West Drayton air.

As for doing any work I've dropped the pax and now have two hours to kill, sitting in a field prooning in the back of the cab. The sun is shining, the birds are singing its Summer. It is as you know a total pain in the a:mad: in Winter.

VH

[AlanM]

VH..... would a 20 minute delay waiting to get in the zone wipe that grin off your face?!?!?!!? :) tee hee :ok:

(we are of course only jealous.... it's not much fun being a pit pony)

[Barndweller]

Alan M.
As a London area stalwart i would be very interested in having a look over your shoulder for an hour at some point. (preferably whilst you're at work!! I mean, you sound like a really great guy but...) Is there an official method of requesting a liaison visit? I'd be grateful if you could let me know how i could sort it out!
Cheers.
Barny

[AlanM]

You can do it officially.... but why not do it unofficially through me!

Have PMd you.