VBlue becoming Ansett

[MaryG]

Is it just me or is Virgin Blue becoming more of an Ansett than it is a low cost carrier. Their prices are now much higher than they were originally compared with QF and their value adding options are becoming more and more of their bread and butter.eg;
*Velocity FF
*New full service 'lounges'
*Blue zone seating
*In house maintainence
*Owning their own aircraft

I know they have the lower cost base and all that goes with it, but does any one else get the feeling that in a few years ther will only be one low cost carrier in Australia. The above listed notes are all contradictory to the southwest model which they started with and it seems to me that Virgin Blue will become the next Ansett, however they have only one model of jam packed aircraft and a cheesy customer service model that seems to be becoming less and less evident (thank god!!).

Does anyone else see warning signs here??

[RENURPP]

One can only hope that is the case.
With QF replacing some of its services with that rabble star, passengers are seeking an alternative. Its not there at present but maybe they (Virgin) have seen the light and are bridging the gap. There is no way on gods green earth I will pay to travel with Jetstar. Feedback from passnegers in darwin is "NOT impressed" at all.

[disco_air]

I can't remember the correct term for it in marketing, but its a strategy that many corporations use. That is, enter market on base-level 'budget' level, and gradually move up (with price) as corporation gains experience & credibility, and clientele matures. Target is one example.

...disco

[Buster Hyman]

So, they're not the Crazy Johns of aviation anymore???:confused:

[planemad2]

*Owning their own aircraft.

Well they will be well in front of Ansett then. ;)

[Charles Abetz]

Even though I dislike basicallly all Australian airliners.
Virgin is probably the best and they seem to be going well if they are able to buy new planes (they are buying 737-800, so it will be at least 10 years before they are in trouble;)) to replace the leased ones (that is smart business practice to me) ie: reducing costs.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Thanks Charles. A reminder why I have been reading this crap less and less of late.
bbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz

[Buster Hyman]

Well...there you go! A post that even makes Mr Buzzy look like a mental giant!:rolleyes:

[Taildragger67]

Even though I dislike basicallly all Australian airliners.
Virgin is probably the best and they seem to be going well if they are able to buy new planes (they are buying 737-800, so it will be at least 10 years before they are in trouble;)) to replace the leased ones (that is smart business practice to me) ie: reducing costs.

How do you equate buying new aircraft with it being "at least ten years before they are in trouble"?

I didn't know that buying new a/c suddenly immunised an airline from going under.

I think there are several which have failed within ten years of their last order for new a/c...

[Deejay 1]

I recall VB used to keep the Air Fair tm.

Seems to have disappeared somewhat.

Recall seeing a Four Corners story on them prior to launch, where Sir Richard or the Brettster said they would never have lounges nor a FF program.

Should never have said never gentleman.

All I know that if I were to travel with kids, QF is likely to get the nod even if they were $20 - $30 return pp more expensive. Why?
QF give kids FREE kids packs, $10 on VB. Both ways. They feed the kids, $??? on VB. Both ways. There is free headsets, $??? on VB. Both ways.
And as a parent of one child who doesn't like face painting, I don't get my face painted, and end up looking like some pre school finger painting walking off the plane!

The Patrick/Toll merger will certainly change things, but as to whether they decide to really go head to head with QF is another thing.
Does their LCC model allow for this? To truly compete they will need to go 2 class service, not just charge extra for an exit seat.

Singapore Airlines (and the Star Alliance carriers) though might have other ideas as it must be hurting them without any reciprocal rights in this part of the world.

[MaryG]

this is not a case of vb bashing, but a interesting view at one of this industry's major players. The reason I posted this is because I have been trying to get a seat on a velocity membership MEL to SYY and the next available seat is six months away - i though the QF FF was a sham, this one takes the cake!
there is no doubt that these changes have been driven by the TOLL / Patrick involvement. I would not be suprised if and when they remove Brett Godfrey (like they have been trying to do) the airline may struggle. BG has ben the brains behind the whole operation, forget Branson - he was meerly the cash man. BG is one of Australia's most sucessfull Managers and a true inspiration. I am concerned about the future of the airline when he goes though.

[Charles Abetz]

You are right to say that it 10 years is a stupid prediction, I was just giving an arbitutury figure of a airline that is going quite well at the moment. Too bad it is being destroyed by TOLL/Patrick's but that is bound to happen anyway since it was sold to them.

[PennyBenjamin]

it will be interesting to see what effects these changes have on pilot wages and conditions, hopefully for those in VB their wages go up as they manage to establish a stronger union - something that their original framework discouraged

[fixa24]

They Wish...:} :{ :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

[Lord Snot]

Is it just me or is Virgin Blue becoming more of an Ansett than it is a low cost carrierNot at all. VB hasn't got an owner(s) who want to simply sell the company for as much as possible as soon as possible, with no interest in it growing as a business!!

Oh, and no sheep-friendles or orcs in management, either...:p

[oldhasbeen]

Is anyone else concerned about someone who thinks Godfrey is an " inspiration "??:hmm:

[milbud]

MARYG, I was stunned to say the least when you said that you couldn't get a velocity reward point flight MEL - SYD in the next six months!
I did some checking up, there are in fact seats available every day, checked with Velocity as well. Even if it is the very last seat available on that day it can be redeemed using points, as long as you have sufficient points available. i would suggest there was some error at the time you checked. I was panicking that my points were suddenly worthless.
Hope you find your flight !

[MaryG]

yeah, sure you can get on the aircraft with 20,000+ velocity points each way - seriously that is a whole lot of travel to get those points. This scheme is a scam in my book. I wanted to go to Canberra for example the other day from melbourne, one way 22,500 points + $40 taxes or $109 on the net for any old bugger. It is seriously difficult to see the benifit of this program

[IAW]

It is seriously difficult to see the benifit of this programThe benefit seems to be a $69 saving. :confused:

[MaryG]

i think ill stick to 'fly buys', do you know how many flights on VB it took to get 20,000 points? - lots!. I don't think i have spent 20 grand, but it would be close to half that amount. Thus making that $69 a 0.69% return to the customer - hardly ground breaking. Read their ad's around the traps;
'Redeemaphobia - The fear of not being able to redeem points' should be more like 'Ripoffaphobia - The fear of crap FF programs' :ugh:

[wirgin blew]

MaryG you are clutching at straws. Just like Millbud said the seats are there its just a matter of how many of your precious points you are willing to part with for the seat.

[Critical Reynolds No]

Even though I dislike basicallly all Australian airliners.


Any examples of an Australian Airliner? Victa Airtourer?:eek:

[Escape_Slide]

Ah MaryG I think you are right about BG but as I recall doing that would put VB in a similar pic to AN before the collapse. Now the the tax office's lookin' for a scape-goat over that GST and methinks BG is gonna need some top-notch advice real soon. But I've gotta admit that VB is never gonna look like AN, it's just too basic.:hmm: BG ought to get out before it turns turkey.

[Disco Stu]

Any examples of an Australian Airliner? Victa Airtourer

Nothing wrong with the Airtourer. Search Airliners dot net and you'll find them there.

Even Airbus Industries like the side stick control position, something the Airtourer has provided for nearly 50 years.

Disco Stu

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0207712&WxsIERv=Ivpgn%20Nvegbhere%20115&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=Hagvgyrq&QtODMg=Xlargba%20Zhavpvcny%20Nvecbeg&ERDLTkt=Nhfgenyvn%20-%20Ivpgbevn&ktODMp=Qrprzore%2022%2C%202001&BP=0&WNEb25u=Crgre%20Zvyyfbz&xsIERvdWdsY=IU-EDY&MgTUQtODMgKE=Gur%20cvybg%20tvirf%20zr%20n%20cbyvgr%20jnir%20 nf%20ur%20gnkv%20gb%20ehajnl%2018.%20Gurl%20ybbx%20yvxr%20n% 20ybg%20bs%20sha.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=516&NEb25uZWxs=2001-12-22%2000%3A00%3A00&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes&width=1024&height=780&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20%3D%20%27Ivpgn%20Nvegbh ere%27%20BE%20nvepensg_trarevp%20%3D%20%27NRFY%20Nvegbhere%2 7%29%20%20beqre%20ol%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=57&prev_id=0207714&next_id=0197863&size=L

[maxter]

i think ill stick to 'fly buys', do you know how many flights on VB it took to get 20,000 points? - lots!. ........:

that wouldn't have anything to do with the fares being so cheap today. You pay $49 for a ticket and still complain. Maybe thay should pay you to fly with them. That is sure to be a good business model with a long term future.

If you were unfortunate enough to have to pay your own way pre Virgin/Impusle days you would know what expensive fares were. The days of the comfortable du-opaly. It was said earlier that Virgin was not cheap as Qantas was only $20 more. Try flying Qantas a few years ago and see what you payed. Virgin cannot cut fares to zero and stay in business and Qantas cannot let their fares get too much above or they will lose too much business. The only reason we have affordable fares today is because of Virgin Blue.

I am a very regular traveller in my business and it staggers me that people complain about no meals for a flight from Brisbane - Sydney etc. It is a 2.5 hour drive for me to get to the airport and i do not need to stop for a feed half way. How is that different to a couple of hours on a plane? Just get me
there efficiently, safely and on time will do thanks.

If Virgin dissapears and one airline is left to it all then watch where airfares will go.

I would also make it clear that I believe Qantas is a great airline as well and it gets a fair amount of my patronage, especially on the Perth run.

They both supply a different service that is well known before you get on board so choose the the type of service you like and let the world move on. What is the point of complaining about the differing product. Just the same reason as why some people buy Commodores, others Fords and yet other a BMW. Personal choice and preference and is neither right or wrong.

Must admit tho Jetstar will take a lot to get me back but others think they are great, so good luck to them

[vee1-rotate]

that wouldn't have anything to do with the fares being so cheap today. You pay $49 for a ticket and still complain. Maybe thay should pay you to fly with them. That is sure to be a good business model with a long term future.
If you were unfortunate enough to have to pay your own way pre Virgin/Impusle days you would know what expensive fares were. The days of the comfortable du-opaly. It was said earlier that Virgin was not cheap as Qantas was only $20 more. Try flying Qantas a few years ago and see what you payed. Virgin cannot cut fares to zero and stay in business and Qantas cannot let their fares get too much above or they will lose too much business. The only reason we have affordable fares today is because of Virgin Blue.
I am a very regular traveller in my business and it staggers me that people complain about no meals for a flight from Brisbane - Sydney etc. It is a 2.5 hour drive for me to get to the airport and i do not need to stop for a feed half way. How is that different to a couple of hours on a plane? Just get me
there efficiently, safely and on time will do thanks.
If Virgin dissapears and one airline is left to it all then watch where airfares will go.
I would also make it clear that I believe Qantas is a great airline as well and it gets a fair amount of my patronage, especially on the Perth run.
They both supply a different service that is well known before you get on board so choose the the type of service you like and let the world move on. What is the point of complaining about the differing product. Just the same reason as why some people buy Commodores, others Fords and yet other a BMW. Personal choice and preference and is neither right or wrong.
Must admit tho Jetstar will take a lot to get me back but others think they are great, so good luck to them

very well said...agree with all of your points

[MaryG]

:cool: Be cool people, just an interesting discussion over the shift in business model of VB! - It may have an effect on almost half of the GA industry!! -well maybe not but at least some of us.

What does everyone think of the new lounges. Apparently free booze and food for 200 joining plus 350 a year - not bad i reckon!!

[satellite1983]

hey all... just thought i would let u know that i went to a vbrd this week and they takl about how vb isnt a :low cost airline" anymore and that they are a new world airline" which means they keep low costs that things like velocity dont cost them much but are good to get more ppl to fly at cheap prices.

[tlf]

Even though I dislike basicallly all Australian airliners.



What have you got against the nomad?

[max autobrakes]

What? speak up I can't hear you.
That's what.

[tinpis]

Disco

Even Airbus Industries like the side stick control position, something the Airtourer has provided for nearly 50 years.

Dont have both neddies fighting over it tho

A340 and V100 would have similar take off distance on a hot day:rolleyes: