guns and heli pilots

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

Just wondering how many civvy heli pilots readily carry arms for various purposes around the world. Where are you, what type of firearm do you carry and what do you hope to use them for ? Also, where do you store/locate them in the aircraft ?

[remote hook]

Working in the Canadian Arctic, there's always a couple Camp Guns for Polar Bears, and usually one in the machine as well. In lesser latitudes some guys carry them in the mountians where there are Grizzlies, and most camps will have a gun or two lying around. You get a fair number of Black Bears trying to get into the cook shack.

Normally a 12guage Shotgun with slugs is the weapon of choice, but you do see rifles and the odd handgun for whatever reason, as they're next to useless on a bear of any size. Had one customer shoot a bear with an AK-47.... that was interesting...

RH

[Aesir]

We would carry 12 gauge, w/ slugs, in the helicopters in the arctic for polar bear protection and hunting.

Some guy´s would carry their private riffle´s of various caliber.

I wonder if a .45 Desert Eagle (handgun) wouldn´t give a polar bear some serious headache!? Much easier to carry around!

[remote hook]

Choose any handgun you want - they're made for killing people, not bears.

I've seen Grizzlies with several old HG slugs in them, after they were killed with a shotgun of course. If you want to shoot a Polar Bear with a handgun, be my guest, you've got bigger bollocks than I!!;)

RH

[SASless]

My first trip to fly in Alaska changed my thinking about my trusty S&W .44 Magnum Revolver. Thinking it would be handy to tote and quite capable of doing in a Brown Bear of any size....I walked off the airplane at the Anchorage Terminal to encounter a Brown Bear in a glass display case. As I stood there looking at about a 12 foot tall critter with teeth like Godzilla and toe nails like pitch fork tines....it dawned upon me I was completely under gunned.

Quick trip to the gun shop....one Remington 870 12 Gauge 3" Magnum with extended magazine and foldling stock later....back in business.

That allowed for seven shots (eight with one in the chamber). Loading sequence was 00 Buckshot in chamber, 00 Buck next, 00 buck, slug, slug, 00 buck , 00 buck, 00 buck, fix bayonets.

Thought process was to try to blind him, mess up his smeller, and knock out his teeth, if he proceeded with the charge...put the slugs into him to knock the wind out of him, then take out his ears.

The back-up gun was a .22 caliber pistol.....to shoot whoever was with you in the knee or ankle....so you could run faster than them thus moving you one notch further away on the food chain from the Bear

[Darren999]

I am currently in Alaska now, and I have seen the forementioned 12 foot Grizzly, and knowing full well with a gun I could not hit a barn door at 10 paces! My customers ask me when we stop, what happens if a bear comes towards us! They gasped where's your gun!!
I say, madam I don't need a gun...... I just have to run faster than YOU! :ok:

[Impress to inflate]

Just my Jogurt Gun, that's all I need in a bad situation, or is that un-PC :ok: :=

[John Eacott]

We used to carry a handy little pump action shottie in the NSCA 212 out of Townsville, hidden away in one of the aft compartments. Defence against Salties was the excuse, but who knew when Freddo was in charge :ok:

(nb for non Victorians, the NSCA had money coming from strange sources for many years, until it all went pear shaped and the boss, Freddo, died of supposed self inflicted gunshot wound. Equally strange affiliations with para military/government organisations........:hmm: )

[topendtorque]

yes, NSCA the biggest most obvious pear on the vine we reckoned.

Guns
Had a conversation one day with a junior pilot who was motivated and looking for new ideas for us. Seems he reckons that fishing the alluring Barrramundi in the coastal freshwater and land locked lagoons would be a good idea. There was just one small problem.. It went like this;

he "you could write to CASA to recommend me for a handgun and I'll stand gaurd against the crocs while the client catches the Barra":O

me, 'well I won't answer just yet but imagine this, crocs (the real saltie ones i mean) will come out of the water without warning at 40klmts /hr and will launch at least forty feet lateral, six to ten feet vertical, grab the bloody tourist, by then you might have just about got your gat halfway out of the holster, blown a hole in your foot in panic, and the whole deal would be terrible for business.':\

he, "i'll put more effort into handing out joy fight brochures"

"he" should by now have many renewals up his sleeve on several heavy metal types, a top young fella.

guns, we used to carry them all the time, some would say for survival, at times dispatching the odd mad scrub bull, dingo, donkey or brumby, always without unhanding the controls of course. shotgun pellets in the beef is definately bad for business and strictly vorboeten. I don't recommend them anymore, your ELT is your life saver stick to it.

[MEON VALLEY FLYER]

Speaking of Gunns, what happened to him ?

[rudestuff]

I carry a .40 cal Baby Glock under my T-shirt - the trip to work is the dodgy part of my day. It actually makes the seatbelt sit more comfortably.
Of course, that'll stop if I ever go home to the UK. (no second amendment over there...)

[ems300]

i keep a benelli shotgun with the extened mag (which gives 9 shots all up) and a red dot scope in the back of the 500, just incase we come across some deer or pigs that will fill the frezzer up nicely on the way home, i use 00 buckshot or slugs and a decent shooter should be able to only head shoot them and not waste any meat!!!:ok:

[rudestuff]

highlands? scotland? shotgun? I'm surprised the PM hasn't banned them yet!
What was his name? Chamberlain? oh, right..... Blair.

[B Sousa]

""Choose any handgun you want - they're made for killing people, not bears."

Hmmmm, Candian response, I understand. Ask Yogi Bear what he thinks about the desert Eagle 50, Casul 454?, S/W 44 mag etc.......
.22 is best for people. .22 Calibri, if you dont want to wake up the rest of the house.

[SASless]

Bert,

You are behind the times....the new Smith & Wesson .50 Caliber revolver is the bees knees! Granted one must have arms like an Orangatan to get it all out in one hoist!

Now I know of a fellow who had a couple of single shot wildcats....he warmed up with a Contender in 45/70 then moved to the big gun..... a .458! Both in the rifle cartriges...not some shrunk up short case thing.


http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/STmonster_1103A.jpg

[B Sousa]

50 is sweet and it will send a vibration up your arm better than you could ever hope for with a backyard of Hugh Heffners best Bunnies
Problem is becoming the ability to move around the states. For example just passing through Kalifornia with something that has "50" on it could be a problem..........

Too the topic when I was in Alaska, I carried either the S/W 44 Mag or the Winchester trapper in 44 mag..........or both. Didnt have to worry about Ammo and easy enough to carry in the Helicopter..

[malabo]

Had a pistol-grip 12 Gauge pump in the hat rack of the Jetranger on the BC mainland coast. In Labrador we had a rusty old .303 duct-taped to the rear post on the 412. Walking between the airstrip and camp we'd usually have someone with a serious gun escort us. Bears.

Some of the timber cruisers we'd fly had .44 mag handguns or the same pistol grip pump shotguns. Can't remember anybody with pepperspray except the occasional tree-hugging tree planter. Funny, they'd still pack the stuff even after a couple got ripped up after emptying the can at a bear.

I wouldn't scorn a .44 at the range that it would likely be used. I watched a warden dispatch an old sick moose with one - left a hole like a pie plate.

malabo

[rotordude]

If you want protection against Grizzly/Polar bears, and you´re not an expert on handguns, a 12 gauge shotgun w/slugs is by far the easiest weapon to handle. Increasing the caliber of your reolver just to compensate for poor marksmanship, is not the way to go. You still have to hit the damn thing within a very short period of time.

I know some of the russian tour guides are using fire bottles of pepperspray. I´ve seen them in use on bears and they are quite effective, but you need nerves of steel, a good portion of patience and timing in order to use them efficiently.

I don´t know what the Dangerous Goods section say about pepperspray. Needless to say that you would have to be a "Jedi Knight" in order to maintain aircraft control if one of those canisters blew up while airborne.

[HFT]

Have flown many hours on pest destruction mainly wild pigs, in a R22 and R44 the R22 is better for the shooter as the door is better positioned than the R44 which is more forward of the shooter. 44 is better for power of course, but a light Beta2 is not too bad. Also it is easy to put a foot step on the R22 but a problem on the 44 the step helps the shooter get further out to shoot behind the ship.Either way once lined up 2m above the swine kick in pedal to align the gun better for swing and pull trigger. Used a browning A5 with double sg's (16 pellets).If the shooter is a good shot use sg's. 5 shots away call 'load load load" max torque turns x2 shooter loads while pilot musters pigs back together. Go in for another run. This is the best flying bar none in my opinion, fast, lots of things to go wrong, trees, fences,gunpowder, and dead pigs. Doesn't get much better. Probably breaking just enough laws to make it interesting, I think there are 14 rules that apply and I can't imagine being able to satify all of them all the time. 258 pigs in one afternoon was the best day and 1051 in 4 days was the best tally. Wore the first A5 (8,000 shots)out and now on the second. Accused one day of allegedly shoot some ground hunter that we didn't see but just a case of envy.

[hbpfly]

Whilst working in Greenland last year, I carried a Parker Hale 270 with wax nose high velocity shells. This was to protect us against polar bears - who will come and hunt you ! It was kept upright between the front seats - without one up the chamber. If that thing went off, you would convert the 500d into a 500c - the 4 bladed version.

If you are stuck in a situation, and the only thing you have is a trusty old 12 bore and some duck shot, open the shell case and pour in molten candle wax. Make sure the barrel is not a Damascus type, or you will end up with a giant cork-screw and a burnt face. This little girl will make a hole on a bear you could walk through.:E
Hughie the pilot.

[hbpfly]

[
I don´t know what the Dangerous Goods section say about pepperspray. Needless to say that you would have to be a "Jedi Knight" in order to maintain aircraft control if one of those canisters blew up while airborne.[/quote]

Many bush pilots have died owing to one of the going off inside the aircraft.
Strap it to a leg or strut with duct tape. That way you can relax whilst flying. If that can goes off - your dead. Never ever carry it inside the machine.:=

[3top]

Any experience what works on big cats? Jaguar, Panther, Puma?

3top

[Codger]

Any experience what works on big cats? Jaguar, Panther, Puma?
3top


338 lapua works well. Nice and flat.

[Whirlygirl665]

All pilots flying in remote areas of Alaska are required by state regs to carry a firearm on board. However, there are no provisions for pilots to be proficient shooting....and no exclusion for pilots too young to own a firearm. Or people banned from gun ownership.

[rigpiggy]

Actually the wax slug thing will make,a nasty wound but not deep enough to kill immediately. research reverse granular impact, a better technique is the"cut shell"as it will hold the shot together for deeper penetration. oh btw grizzly poop has bells in it and smells like pepper.

[arismount]

Use of Cut Shells is an old-time technique mostly unknown today. There are youtube videos that explain the concept and how to do it.

Cut Shells offer more dependability (as far as holding the shot mass together for penetration and energy delivery) than do waxed "slugs," however a big problem with Cut Shells is that you can't cycle them through repeaters, as they would fall apart and jam the piece during cycling.

So with a repeater (pump or automatic) you would have to put one in the chamber manually and then close the action and load the magazine with non-cut rounds.

For more than one quick shot with Cut Shells you would have to be using a side-by-side or over/under double barrel gun and that means only two down range before reloading is necessary.

On that note, if a double-barrelled shotgun is what you have, the fastest way to do a reload is to have two shells gripped between the fingers of your non-firing hand, brass held inwards to the palm, just above the rim. After firing both barrels, breaking open the action and pulling out the fired shell cases, push the reloads into the chambers and you're ready again.

[skiddriver]

The rules requiring the carriage of a firearm in Alaska have been removed from regulation.

I've been told but have no proof that this occurred when Alaskan pilots flying into Canada were put between the rock and hard place of either violating the survival equipment rule and flying without a firearm or having to deal with Canada's strict gun control rules during Customs examination upon arrival in Canada.