BA Connect [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

OltonPete

28th Feb 2006, 17:22

Moku - BACON will announce this later this week, if not, early next week. The RJ move to EDI to be announced mid summer.

Hi

I am booked BHX - BCN on 1/8/06, are you saying that this could be a 145? In this instance I am not bothered if it is a RJ100 or 145 but I would
interested if something else might be coming BHX's way?

Also if the RJ100 is to be replaced with 145's, I assume that some routes
will be lost as I am not aware of 4/5 spare 145's? Unless they can do it
by squashing in eight sector days on the existing 145 fleet.

OltonPete

Avman

28th Feb 2006, 17:31

I'd guess that the EDI-BHX will operate with the RJ100 and then onward possibly on the BHX-DUS. Something like EDI-BHX-DUS-BHX-???-BHX-DUS-BHX-EDI perhaps? So, there will still be some RJ100 rotations out of Brum.

irishair2001

28th Feb 2006, 18:48

If people use Bacon a lot, do they qualify as frequent fryers

Railgun

28th Feb 2006, 19:21

If people use Bacon a lot, do they qualify as frequent fryers

Yes with miles on both fairs of ticket.

Oshkosh George

28th Feb 2006, 19:23

Yes with miles on both fairs of ticket.

I kind of think that you didn't read the question!:D
You kind of RASHERED into it!
Perhaps you should go BAP and read it again!

mmeteesside

28th Feb 2006, 19:37

That was a SAUCY reply :ouch:

Railgun

28th Feb 2006, 19:50

I kind of think that you didn't read the question!:D
You kind of RASHERED into it!
Perhaps you should go BAP and read it again!

That will teach me to skim read.

Tandemrotor

28th Feb 2006, 21:57

Moku - BACON will announce this later this week, if not, early next week. The RJ move to EDI to be announced mid summer

Apparently it's true!

With the RJ crews then being the only ones providing the full service product, apparently they are all to be offered mainline T & Cs.

Shame to see the company broken up this way!

Centre cities

28th Feb 2006, 22:56

If the RJ are based at EDI, that would I expect make 1 crew base. The aircraft already route EDI-BHX to Europe on some flights.

By basing at EDI they could offer the same via BHX and MAN who I believe recently lost the RJ. ( An EMB145 must be a bit tight on some of their routes )

Centre cities

HZ123

1st Mar 2006, 08:24

This whole thing is doomed to fail regretable as it is for the committed staff that have suffered under mismanagement for so long.

UPS@EMA

1st Mar 2006, 11:18

im booked on ba to MAD from BHX and are scheduled to fly the RJ100. We are flying on to Murcia with air nostrum. Just of topic, whats a AT7 aircraft?
Whats the range of the 145's? Can it make MAD etc? Its scheduled at 2hrs 40 mins
Regards
Stu

Pizzaro

1st Mar 2006, 11:41

145 does Madrid from Manchester.

LGWAlan

1st Mar 2006, 12:11

And an AT7 is an ATR72 - UPS@EMA

marlowe

1st Mar 2006, 12:33

From the very first day of Bacon it was obvious that the RJ fleet and the LCY operation was going to be different from the rest of the company ,as the mismanagment could/would not answer any in depth questions about it. It is going to be difficult for crew to explain to pax on the LCY routes that yes Bacon is a low cost operation elswhere, BUT as you live in the south east and must be well off then you can afford to pay top prices!!! Or is more to do with B.A not wanting to have to compete with a low cost operator in the London catchment area that is basically itself.

Kak Klaxon

2nd Mar 2006, 08:50

Spot on again Marlow as ever,My big sister works in the city flys all over the place on re insurance stuff for a huge company,books her tickets via BA as instructed but has never heard of any services through London City.

Pizzaro

2nd Mar 2006, 10:16

This happened aswell in the BA travel shop in Manchester. Some one tried to book direct to Oslo from Man but were told they had to go via Heathrow. This person happened to be a Bacon employee and had operated the flight days earlier. When will BA wake up and realise that not everyone wants to fly via Heathrow or Gatwick. Easy, Ryanair's and Flybe's sucess from regional airports just seems to be passing them by.

marlowe

2nd Mar 2006, 11:59

As a matter of interest do, for example BMI compete with BMIBABY on any of there routes? BA always seem uncomfortable with LCY they do not want pax to go there and have pax figures drop at LHR and LGW on certain routes ie GVA FRA bcause if that happened then BAA would be moaning that pax figures were dropping at key airports and also the unions want to protect there members at these airports, these are the same unions of which i am a member of one of them, so where is my protection? If BA are honest with themselves they really would like LCY to just go away because it is an irritant to the great LHR. BUT hang on they also need it because it will be the only airport able to deliver pax to the heart of the olympic games. my personal opinion is that BA will absorb the RJ fleet into mainline,they may not want the airframes but its all they have that can currently get in there with resonable pax loads and suddenly "discover" LCY in time for 2012.

WHBM

2nd Mar 2006, 12:11

If departing LCY on rwy 28 SID you will be able to fly Bacon over the West Ham ground.

I'll get my coat :)

Pizzaro

2nd Mar 2006, 13:43

Surely if Bacon are making money out of Lcy, then that is good for BA. The money after all is going into the same coffers ????

HZ123

2nd Mar 2006, 14:25

The observation regarding BA management confusion over LCY is often equally felt by our colleagues at LGW. No change there then?

GoEDI

14th Mar 2006, 15:06

EDI-LCY 7x daily now on sale.

flyer55

14th Mar 2006, 17:11

Does anybody know why LCY-GVA route is being dropped ?

madmax100

14th Mar 2006, 18:54

GVA is only being dropped for the summer schedule.

Buster the Bear

14th Mar 2006, 20:28

SUPERB! :ok:

moku

14th Mar 2006, 20:45

ah, but BA Connect will also increase the number of EDI flights and from May start flights to Milan!! :O

conradmueller

15th Mar 2006, 16:53

and from May EDI-DUS with RJ85 6 times a week

GoEDI

15th Mar 2006, 16:59

and from May EDI-DUS with RJ85 6 times a week

Is this non-stop? You presumably mean RJ100?

conradmueller

15th Mar 2006, 17:12

The homepage of Düsseldorf Airport
www.flughafen-duesseldorf.de
shows a nonstop flight BA 7882 departing at 14.35 in DUS and landing at 15.05 in EDI.
Flights supposed to start on May 15th 2006.

GoEDI

15th Mar 2006, 17:23

Yes I see it now. Excellent.:D

GoEDI

31st Mar 2006, 14:29

Not sure what happened to DUS, but EDI-HAM now annouced, 3x weekly RJ100 starting 2nd June.

World of Tweed

18th Apr 2006, 10:44

Heard a nasty little rumour the other day regards the 'new and improved' BA Connect.....

Apparently the current strategy involves 'distancing' themselves from the mainline brand as they expect to be sold in 18months so that BA mainline can help plug its pension deficit?.....

Dash-7 lover

18th Apr 2006, 10:51

Would hardly be worth it? BA Connect isn't worth £500 mil so would plug a very small gap!!! - yet more drivel!! - By all acounts the new product has been received very well by the public and if it continues to work , it may well be rolled out on the off peak short haul services out of LHR/LGW!

ETOPS

18th Apr 2006, 10:52

I think you need to go back to whoever told you this and "grill" them some more ;)

They might be telling "porkies" :ok:

World of Tweed

18th Apr 2006, 10:59

Well it was Only a rumour but ....strangely though I did hear it over a "Full-English"....

They may not be worth the vast sums required by BA but it would seem a logical step as nower days it feels like your flying on completely different airline anyway...

"Same great service" - now thats just 'pork pies in the sky' ......;)

Oh the Bovine comedy.....

Volmet South

18th Apr 2006, 11:18

Utter Bolleaux

The truth is that ticket sales are up and most sectors are seeing punters buying all the food. Extending the BACON model elsewhere within mainline is a much more likely scenario.

If the Marketing boys and girls over at BACON are allowed to promote the product inside the "Griefrow & Tatwick" catchment area attracting customers to the Birmingham, Bristol and Southampton hubs then BACON could become a cash cow for big BA.

Bigger jungle jets within the next 18 months ???????

TURIN

18th Apr 2006, 13:39

Any news about the MAN-ZRH returning. This hopping through LHR is a right pain in the proverbial.:*

FlyboyUK

18th Apr 2006, 13:52

Bigger jungle jets within the next 18 months ???????

Could that be why a manger has gone off on a "Special Engineering Project"???:ooh:

Dash-7 lover

18th Apr 2006, 13:57

MAN-ZRH.... ? Doubt that'll happen unless Swiss give back the RJ's!! Pretty obvious it was part of the deal..... LX ops direct MAN-ZRH anyway..

Railgun

18th Apr 2006, 13:58

It was in the MEN last week WW saying he has been very happy with the performance of BA Connect in the last few weeks (very early days still but a sign of thins to come?). Far more bums on seats than before. Anyone want a wager on how long LGW will last in its present full service form on EF?

If BA Connect can become profitable then there is no point in selling up. £xxxxxx is better going in BA's pocket than BMI's, Jet2's etc.....

CheekyVisual

18th Apr 2006, 14:03

In probability every bit of speculation on this thread is true or has some basis. However, I don't believe any actual decisions have yet been taken. That will depend on how well the next 12-18 months go. Moving the RJs to EDI makes a lot of sense for both possible scenarios. LCY is a winner for BA be it BACON or mainline. The EDI base keeps it subtly out of the firing line of the "There is only one London Airport" wing of BA management and Unions. By making BHX, SOU and BRS single type bases costs are lowered.

Now I can't believe that DE and his mob have thought this up and pushed it through. BACON has come from WW and it's the way he sees BA short haul going. Where better to try it out. Take a company that isn't working anyway and give it a shot. If it doesn't work well then you were going to sell it or close it anyway ! Now if BACON works (and it might lets not be completely negative here!) WW will have a low fares (lets not kid ourselves about low cost !) airline within the BA group. He may be tempted to introduce the Connect product at LGW and on some of the less profitable LHR short haul routes and probably the shuttle. It's only what he's done before. Where that leaves the actual BA Connect company I'm not sure but it would have a stronger position to ask for investment in it's business.

Now if BACON doesn't work then the LCY work is nicely placed in one base with one set of pilots and CC who can be eased quietly into mainline. Imagine the fuss if BHX was split down the middle with half the crew getting mainline contracts and the other half cut adrift. With the RJs gone there won't be that type of tension and the EDI base will be all for it ! EDI 145s will move to BHX.

You can then sell what is left bit by bit. BRS & SOU to Air Southwest (Welcome to Brymon), MAN 145s and D8s to Eastern (Welcome to BRAL) with BA Connect maybe soldiering on at BHX until someone wants it or all the leases run out.

Either way BA don't lose. What we musn't forget is that I genuinely believe no final decisons have yet been made. The future is still up for grabs. As an employee I just wish we had more agressive management where it counted, fighting the competition and not their own staff !

Railgun

18th Apr 2006, 18:14

He may be tempted to introduce the Connect product at LGW and on some of the less profitable LHR short haul routes and probably the shuttle..

My money is on BA Connect getting into LGW and all LHR routes staying full service untill after 2012.....

Avman

18th Apr 2006, 18:48

The truth is that ticket sales are up and most sectors are seeing punters buying all the food

Increased sales does not necessarily equate to positive yield.

As for the on-board service, my experience so far (4 flights) is that cabin crews are somewhat slow with the new process. The other day it took the cabin crew almost 40 mins to reach me in row 17 of a just under 50% loaded RJ100 on a 60 minute sector! We'd just started initial descent by that time! First lesson I've learned is that if I want to be fed and/or watered within a comfortable time frame, I'll opt for a seat in the front. I imagine that the crews will improve their speed with time and experience.

EGCC4284

18th Apr 2006, 20:24

FlyboyUK

Check PM

4468

18th Apr 2006, 22:35

Apparently it's true.

BACON now officially sell more in flight pizzas, than any other airline!

Sadly nothing else has improved.

Wonder if they've thought about closing the airline, and opening a pizzeria?

Has anyone else noticed how the ticket prices in this "New low prices, same great service" airline appear to have actually increased?

I reckon it's frequently cheaper to go via LHR or LGW if ever your destination allows!

Daza

19th Apr 2006, 09:28

My brother is a senior manager on the ground at BHX. The ARJ-100s are to stay at BHX. The three routes started this summer at BHX (TXL and GVA are selling very well BHD not so)these routes are to be joined by two more in the winter. BA at BHX has its biggest programme ever.Passenegers are commenting very favourably about the catering onboard too.
Daza

Cyrano

19th Apr 2006, 09:49

BA at BHX has its biggest programme ever.
That'd be "biggest programme since the demise of Maersk Air UK/Duo." :( Under the BA code, Maersk flew from BHX to quite a few destinations which BACon isn't serving.

IS THAT A CALL

19th Apr 2006, 10:07

Hello all,

Can I ask what the loads are like on your edi-lcy routes cause we have a few spare seats these days.:uhoh:

towser

19th Apr 2006, 10:39

Depends on the time and day of the week but operated 4 flights the other day , 2 were full and other 2 were about 60-70%

IS THAT A CALL

19th Apr 2006, 11:25

Cheers that's where they have all gone! Most of our flights operate around the 50% mark now even dropping as low as 10%:ouch: . Frequency used to be our selling point but Connect has now found the jugular vain.:eek:

trippitarka

19th Apr 2006, 11:51

Article in Travel Trade Gazette has DE indicating booking figures are up 10-15% on last year, so there maybe hope yet. The grub seems to be going down well, usually very little to sell on the return leg. The only thing that bothers me is how many flight deck are looking for jobs elsewhere. If they all get jobs in this market then we maybe in trouble.

Daza

19th Apr 2006, 14:11

That'd be "biggest programme since the demise of Maersk Air UK/Duo." :( Under the BA code, Maersk flew from BHX to quite a few destinations which BACon isn't serving.

Maersk were an independent airline, BA only marketed and provided ground handling for them. DUO were never part of BA in fact they actively sought to leave the BA umberella-a big mistake!!

BA have their biggest programme ever at BHX this summer and plan to expand aggressively at several bases this winter and next summer.
Daza

OltonPete

19th Apr 2006, 15:28

Maersk were an independent airline, BA only marketed and provided ground handling for them. DUO were never part of BA in fact they actively sought to leave the BA umberella-a big mistake!!

BA have their biggest programme ever at BHX this summer and plan to expand aggressively at several bases this winter and next summer.
Daza

Could you confirm if this is with the 145?

It is good to see that bookings are up 10-15% but it just seems so
unusual for a low fares airline (yes I understand it is not a LCC) to use a
49 seater as the basis for such plan.

The only other ones I really know are (or should it be were) DUO &
Independence Air :{ I fully understand that new aircraft is not an option if BACX was such a loss making airline but 49 seats?

If it is a matter of offering the first 4 or so fares at low prices then
surely this is no different to what was on offer before and all they
have done is make you pay for your food.

I have done my little bit and booked Barca via Airmiles at a reasonable
price. I could have got it cheaper from EMA (to GRO) or Luton or
Bristol but I am prepared to pay a bit more for convenience but I know many have looked at Connect and chosen the trip down the motorway to save £££.

OltonPete

Mr A Tis

19th Apr 2006, 15:49

Booking MAN- BRU with less than 48 hours notice will set you back £400-£450
return with BACON, & you will need to stump up for the sarnie & vino. Whereas, of course from LHR you can still get a return for just over a £100 at short notice, & get all the frills & mileage too !!!
Dick Turpin obviously operates oop north:(

GoEDI

19th Apr 2006, 16:10

BA have their biggest programme ever at BHX this summer and plan to expand aggressively at several bases this winter and next summer

Please do tell us more.;)
I'd like to think the initial expansion of 7x daily LCY and HAM is the start of something bigger at EDI.:ok:

Volmet South

19th Apr 2006, 16:19

What sort of feast do you get on LHR -BRU :confused: The all-day disappointment is an insult ......albeit a free insult.

Some people intentionally avoid Griefrow for short-haul as it can take just as long to get from the car park to the gate as it does from pushback to touchdown. If the market will bear high prices for a direct flight avoiding the LHR scrum then is that not a sound business decision from the chaps in Marketing ?

I was very sceptical when the new product was launched however business is picking up quite nicely :ok:

moku

19th Apr 2006, 20:20

Latest Rumour heard yesterday is the the RJ might be heading back to MAN? Not from EDI, but up the road from BHX?

M.

tristar500

19th Apr 2006, 20:36

The way its going, Titan and Flightline will make out of this. First of all BAConnect decide to sell the 'best' Avros (G-CFA...) to LH/Swiss, then they decide to increase routes only the Avro can fly and add an additional new route from EDI... What the hell are the BAConnect management up to? Titan and Flightline have been doing numerous routes recently for BAConnect as there are tech acft (whats new) and lack of acft, and crew.

It makes one think that there is a conspiacy theory going on at Waterworld to make things not work out...

tallaonehotel

20th Apr 2006, 16:06

quotefrom tristar 500 : First of all BAConnect decide to sell the 'best' Avros (G-CFA...) to LH/Swiss...

If you were to know a little more about this deal you might find out why BA have done this deal, the lease cost of the newer RJ's was OTT and handback requirements were interesting!. The aircraft are being sub-leased to Swiss abit like the Eastern 41 deal. I'm glad to see the back of the RJ as they are a royal pain in the ar*e to maintain, and support from BAe systems is getting worse by the day!.

We all know BA Connect have the wrong aircraft for the job, and probably being prepared to be ditched by BA in less than 2 years, but we can only do the job with the equipment we have as re-investment will never happen!.

tristar500

20th Apr 2006, 19:08

The deal to 'let go' the newest Avros must surely have been approved by the management. Ok, the cost of the leases were high, but that cost must be worth it as they were the most reliable Avros in the fleet... Whats left isnt fit for the grassy fields of East Fortune Museum of flight. If BAConnect continue to '****' about with their routes (in particular the EDI-LCY-EDI route) then things will go from bad to terminal, in a very short space of time.

I agree that the staff - whom Iam part of in the bigger picture - can only do their job with the tools they are given, but who is listening to the people trying to do their job? Investment is badly needed and it isnt cheap. Someone, somewhere needs to sit up and take stock of the situation and fast.

Alternatives to the Avro for LCY, and other domestic routes could come in the form of the new Embraer line up (EMB170-195), the A318, and even the B737 NG (modified models).

If BAConnect were to fail, then my job along with hundreds of others would go too, but maybe thats the way these things go when you are run from a fantasy world on the outskirts of Heathrow. Having offices in MAN and IOM really only dilutes the problem. LHR decides and thats it. Mainline are in need of a significant fleet upgrade so where do BAConnect come in to it?

ryanair1

21st Apr 2006, 12:19

this airline is a complete waiste of time and space - the only benefit for business men who dont pay their tickets is the free mileage and lounge access.... wake up and smell the coffee! where routes already have low-cost frequency service, get rid of BA Connect - they are useless. £400 return BRS to Munich? please....

tallaonehotel

21st Apr 2006, 14:47

From Ryanair1's reply we can only guess this person has a slight bias.
Having experienced both sides of the BA/FR fence I know which one I'd choose.
It would be nice to have a cut price fleet of shiney new jets and low paid workers???. I wonder how life would be for FR if Boeing were desperate to sell 737's a few years ago??????

Every dog has it's day remember!

shuttlebus

25th Jun 2006, 12:47

All,

Once again, BACON has failed to perform. Myself, along with a few colleagues regularly commute over to Manchester (2-3 times a month) and have in the past regularly been let down by BACON - basically, the timetable tells porkies:ugh:

Now, we had started using Flybe as an alternative rather than the BACON option, but since last Friday happened to be our company golf day and given Flybe's new charging scheme for hold baggage we decided to resort to good old British Airways... What a mistake!!! (And yes, I lnow BACON is a franchise partner, not BA Mainline).

So, what happened? Well, we all booked in online the night before and printed our boarding cards.... so far so good. But when we reached the airport the following morning (about 07:40 for an 08:30 departure), we discovered that the fligth had been cancelled - and no-one could give us a reason. Instead everyone for MAN was transferred to the BHX flight (Also 08:35).

Luckily, we had the office change our hire car bookings and al other details, but instead of a half hour drive and time to practise, we ended up with a 2.25hour drive and no practise time:{ Finally, since the BHX flight was only expecting 12 people (ERJ 145) there was only limited catering.:E

I should also say at this point that both the ground staff and the cabin crew did a spectacular job in dealing with a lot of :mad: passengers like myself. It is a shame that such professionalism is being let down by poor communication and the ops department.

But to the crux. Do the managers at BACON really feel that this type of service is acceptable. I know aircraft can go "tech" and I am not an unreasonable person, but the regularity with which this service suffers "problems" is beyond a standing joke. We met others in our industry on Friday morning who regaled is with the horror stories of BACON to MAN.

The new services got plenty of advertising in the local press and I am sure initially, plenty of other people were happy to switch back to BA. However, I shall not be flying BACON again and shall be switching back to Flybe and the other alternatives - being late for a golf day is inconvenient. Missing a business meeting with a client is not and this is what I must think of in future.

BACON, pls take note. If you want to be successful, you must provide a reliable service.

Regards,

Shuttlebus

P.S. If anyone can enlighten me as to why there was no flight on Friday, I would be interested....

conradmueller

27th Jun 2006, 06:24

with the new Flybe route from BHX to HAJ BACON will get some evil competion.

TimS

27th Jun 2006, 07:09

Just for clarification - BACON is a wholly owned subsidiary of BA rather than a Franchise partner

BHDflyer

15th Jul 2006, 20:24

BHDflyer

25th Jul 2006, 10:37

BA are expected to announce later today they will close their bases in Inverness and Southampton :ugh:

airhumberside

25th Jul 2006, 11:01

I guess SOU is due to compeition from Flybe?

Exasperated

25th Jul 2006, 22:05

Don't know about BHX or MAN but is there any word about BA Connect expanding in Belfast? A route to London City would be good as Flybe gave this direct route up three years ago, now there's a very good opportunity for a Belfast to London service with BA! If there can be a EDI-LCY, why not BHD-LCY? Surely the normal buissness traveller into London is buy now very sick of a £15 rip off train journey fare from Heathrow to Paddington (even though efficient, quite exspensive), and the tube is a drag.

The key reason for the success of the EDI-LCY route is the importance of Edinburgh as a financial centre.

Corporate Watch statesEdinburgh is the second largest financial services centre in the UK after London, and despite its geographical size is the sixth largest investment management centre in Europe and the 15th largest in the world.

It is not about transporting passengers to central London but linking finance centres in Edinburgh and the east end of London, especially Canary Wharf, where many of the major financial institutions have large offices.

Domestic routes into LCY have come and gone primarily as it is such a niche market. There are currently seven domestic routes into LCY and the EDI route carries more passengers than the rest put together.

I cannot see a compelling reason for a BHD-LCY route as airlines do not want to operate into expensive, restricted and difficult airports such as LCY without the sort of premium pax mix available from EDI.

Sorry

Ex

aeftutor

26th Jul 2006, 09:43

BA Connect have announced the withdrawal of services between Southampton and Glasgow from the beginning of the Winter 2006 schedule. The last departure will be on Friday 27 October 2006.

OltonPete

26th Jul 2006, 10:03

aeftutor

Gosh Flybe wasted no time - increasing to 6 a day from September and
will use the 195 at some point (reported on terms & endearment thread
and also on flybe site).

Talk about smelling blood.

Is SOU-EDI staying? I suppose it could change to an EDI based aircraft.

Pete

uncovered

26th Jul 2006, 10:13

Flybe have Today announced a 33% increase in Frequency and a 50% increase in capacity on the route, to take effect in september. They are obviously making it plain the pain they will inflict on anyone who seeks to try and take BA's place- having spent 3 years providing evil competition to BACON.

Skipness One Echo

26th Jul 2006, 12:39

With only GLA / EDI / MAN the closure of SOU base is not too surprising given Flybe's success but a shame for all those involved. Do we have any info where the displaced aircraft are going?

wigwag

26th Jul 2006, 13:25

What about the IOM base ? Does anyone think that they will keep it or close it ?

ww

HZ123

27th Jul 2006, 08:13

We are told at Waterworld that there are two announcemnets due this morning (thursday) concerning pensions and another. Press presence is evident.

ETOPS

27th Jul 2006, 10:09

another. Press presence is evident.

Manchester shuttle base (Cabin Crew) to close. Staff receiving the hards words this morning. 3 months notice then out............

wigwag

27th Jul 2006, 11:56

ETOPS

3 months notice then out............

Do you mean 3 months then re-deployed or 3 months then P 45 ?

WW

ETOPS

27th Jul 2006, 21:10

wigwag

Standard BA base closure terms. Redundancy, move to LHR or take BACON terms and conditions. As most of the MAN crews have been in the regions for many years none of these options are palatable. Quite a few tears before bedtime tonight.........

TURIN

27th Jul 2006, 22:29

Same thing happened to the BA engineers 5 years ago. Best of luck to all of you. For what it's worth I have always thought the MAN shuttle crews were the best. Friendly, no chips on shoulders and always gave my a hot brew on those cold damp Manchester mornings. We'll miss you.:sad:

aeulad

28th Jul 2006, 14:36

Dropping SOU-GLA. BE increasing to 6 daily.

Start of the end for BACON at SOU?

Regards

Mike

FlyboyUK

28th Jul 2006, 16:59

aeulad

BACON already announced they are closing SOU base :(

uncovered

1st Aug 2006, 09:36

BA withdraw from BHD-BHX from August 21 after only 3 and a bit months on the route.
Flybe announce increase in frequency and capacity on the route.

Damian O'Leary

1st Aug 2006, 09:51

Perhaps the lesson for BA Connect here is to move that big chunk of their current capacity away from the domestic routes on which they are rapidly losing ground to the likes of Flybe and Easy Jet, and instead focus on international business/city break routes from LCY, BHX, MAN and EDI. Surely most of the UK domestic flight options are now exhausted?

FlyboyUK

1st Aug 2006, 10:52

Apart from the withdrawl of the BHX-BHD service, there is some slightly more positive news:

New LCY-MAD service twice daily
Increased IOM-LGW frequencies
Increased MAN-MXP frequencies
Extra weekend flights on BHX-ABZ
Extra weekend flights BRS-CDG

What does seem slightly strange is that in some of the news announced today there is a bit promoting the BACON BRS-TFS service which is operated by GB. But as it's quoted by DE himself, makes you wonder if the cat is out of the bag??

airhumberside

1st Aug 2006, 13:20

Is MAD-LCY being operated with EDI crew, as with all other LCY flights and will the plane nightstop @ MAD?

Also with the extra IOM-LGW flights, will IOM-LTN be continued?

Curious Pax

1st Aug 2006, 13:36

What does seem slightly strange is that in some of the news announced today there is a bit promoting the BACON BRS-TFS service which is operated by GB. But as it's quoted by DE himself, makes you wonder if the cat is out of the bag??

Interesting - what do you think the cat is? GB to take over operation of BACON? Are GB tied in to some of the Waterworld centralised overheads in the same way that BACON are? If not, and GB took over presumably that would slash BACON's costs in an instant (and increase BA's!)?

Railgun

1st Aug 2006, 13:57

BACON to take over operation of GB?

More chance of that happening???

airhumberside

1st Aug 2006, 14:06

Also with the extra IOM-LGW flights, will IOM-LTN be continued?
To answer my own quetion, the BA website shows IOM-LTN will be axed from the winter timetable

Tandemrotor

1st Aug 2006, 23:21

Is MAD-LCY being operated with EDI crew, as with all other LCY flights and will the plane nightstop @ MAD?

The flt times show the aircraft leaving MAD at 0700 local. This suggests the aircraft must nightstop, having arrived at 2235 local the previous evening.

True Blue

6th Aug 2006, 16:04

See on Flybe site an increase in services to Bhd from Man, some days up to 6 per day. Is this the move to kill Bacon off the Bhd to Man route and end the last BA service to Belfast?

True Blue

Ian Farquharson

6th Aug 2006, 19:13

Flybe have increase BHX-BHD to 7 per day following BACON's decision to drop the route, I guess Flybe would like them off MAN-BHD too !

Flybe seemed to be going all out to kill BACON !

Ian

Mr A Tis

6th Aug 2006, 20:08

As suggested by Damian, earlier,maybe BACON should give up trying to compete on major routes with Air France, Lufthansa & Flybe from MAN. Perhaps it would be better to develop more niche markets better suited to their smaller types. From MAN, I'd suggest Lisbon,Bilbao,Marseille, and Basel as a start, non of which have current direct flights from MAN.

Coasthugger

7th Aug 2006, 08:03

Flybe seemed to be going all out to kill BACON !
Ian

It would make a lot of sense, they have very similar business models, and with BACON having started to cut routes they look vulnerable to an agressively competitive strategy.

BHDflyer

7th Aug 2006, 09:59

See on Flybe site an increase in services to Bhd from Man, some days up to 6 per day. Is this the move to kill Bacon off the Bhd to Man route and end the last BA service to Belfast?

True Blue

I would say so. The once biggest airline in Belfast is now looking like a sitting duck. I will miss seeing the British Airways planes, the only real one you should see is a DH8 into Aldergrove every Saturday for a flight to Jersey in the summer season (operated by AirwaysHolidays though):sad:

OltonPete

8th Aug 2006, 18:24

Another route with reduced frequencies in November.

It seems the evening flight is going to operate on a Monday & Friday only.

Chipping away slowly!

This winter thus far now has the following changes: -

No BHD (although this was not operating in winter 2005/6)

Edinburgh still six a day but 2 x RJ100 & 4 x 145 compared to 4 & 2 now
(5 & 1 last winter)
Paris CDG still 5 a day but 4 x 145 & 1 RJ100 compared to 2 RJ's & 3 145's
(3 RJ's last winter)
Berlin & Geneva will be extra to last winter but with the reduction to
3 RJ100's it seems things are happening at a reasonable pace.

Used Connect this week to BCN, on time, great crew, 70% full
out and 99% on the way back. Online check-in worked, aircraft okay
and the only downside was the food ran out on both sectors.
There was definitely a feeding frenzy on yesterdays flight but the other half had a strop as they ran out of cream teas:ugh:. That was £4 less
to the Connect coffers but it all worked well other than that.

Get the right aircraft, right routes and the front-line staff will pull it off.
These 145's must be a real millstone around the neck, what a waste.

Pete

Tandemrotor

8th Aug 2006, 20:43

Effectively the E145 IS BA Connect.

Noiffsorbuts

5th Sep 2006, 14:53

Stand by for the next chop. A "Big Shakeup" being announced in October.

Who, what, when, where this time??:ugh:

Kak Klaxon

5th Sep 2006, 15:20

BA Connect is BAs plan to exit the regions,it is a side show of no use to big BA and rather than just shutting the whole thing down its a device to operate unwanted aircraft untill the leases expire.

If your expecting to get sucked into mainline when this happens then think about all the pilots from other bases that have been closed,they will happily take BACON cabin crew but not pilots.Good luck and get your CVs out.

Closed to date,CWL,LBA,NCL,PLY,GLA,JSY,SOU...whos next?

unimuts

5th Sep 2006, 15:58

I guess with the recent advert from Flybe in Flight this week, there isn't to much to worry about. If you feel short changed by BACon then vote with your feet and go. Dash 8 crews required just make sure you get in there before they close recruitment.

Does'nt seem as if Balpa are going to put up fight for you guys and girls. Maybe I am wrong, maybe they will wake up and do somthing for all that money the crews have been forkin out in membership fees :}

Was it all worth it ?

:ok:

good luck

biddedout

5th Sep 2006, 16:53

I think the BALPA reps and Full timers are well awake to what is going on in BACON they are simply frustrated by a bunch of pilots who appear to have been sleepwalking through the last five years.:ugh:
Of course they wake up when it's their turn, but only briefly.

Wouldn't be surprised if there is some big announcement soon, but some things simply don't add up. Why is Didsbury getting busier and busier? Why is the company apparently obsessed with building relations with the school in Jerez with PH and DE wining and dining their cadets. Why bother, when DE doesn't even speak or acknowledge the rest of the staff.

Something is up.

Interesting to note High Life running an article about BA Connect - "BA's regional subsidiary" starting an operation out of Yorkshire to Tenerief. What's all that about? No mention of GB.

Tandemrotor

5th Sep 2006, 17:13

BA probably mean Nottingham...In Yorkshire!!

Their geography never was very good anywhere North of the Bath Road!

BHDflyer

5th Sep 2006, 18:07

Anybody want to place their bets on what routes/bases might be going? The only route within the UK that BA Connect seem to be profitable is EDI-LCY. I can soon see BA Connect bankrupt in years to come and the only profitable route they ever operated (EDI-LCY) will be given to mainline and all the other BA UK-UK routes will be mainline services to from LHR/LGW. With too much competition from Flybe (who are NOW the UK's biggest regional airline), bmi regional, easyjet, the list goes on and now I think the time has come:sad: I'll give my say and say BHD-MAN will go first.

Jet A1

5th Sep 2006, 18:08

From Sep 1st GB have operated as BA Connect from MAN and all flights except LHR/LGW will operate as BA Connect in the future....

eagle21

5th Sep 2006, 18:36

PAXboy

5th Sep 2006, 19:00

biddedoutHigh Life running an article about BA Connect - "BA's regional subsidiary"I noticed that they moved from the 'short haul division' to the 'regional subsidiary' some time ago. When they eventually sell them/ditch them, it will be so much easier to if the national anf financial news says merely that BA is selling a subsidiary - rather than that BA is cutting back on a whole and vital sector of it's business.

But then, I always was cynical.

keepitlit

5th Sep 2006, 19:07

just a thought and it is just an idea :ok:

BA buy bmi mainline,(its already striped ready for a sale just slots and air/ground crew perfect for willie once the pension is sorted out.)

bmi baby sold to the highest bidder then monies used for the purchase of
BA connect:) :D

result

jobs still for everyone so you can stay to see if you like it:)

willie looks if hes pulled the deal of the century:D

SMB has sh*t loads of dosh and still has a trainset to play with:E :D

rgds

K.I.L.

Hand Solo

5th Sep 2006, 19:25

How will BA mainline operate this services?? There no BA mainlane crew certified to fly in anything smaller than a A319 , and there is nothing bigger than a A318 planned to ber certified into LCY.

At the risk of stating the obvious there are lots of BA mainline crew certified to fly the A321/320/319/318. If BA bought some 318s they could be utilised very efficiently out of LCY, being deployed back to LHR on days when the LCY operation was quiet. There are also quite a few mainline pilots currently rated on the RJ100 both on secondment to BACX and from the original CFE body.

That said, BA management are unaware of any airport outside LHR/LGW so this probably hasn't even crossed their minds.

100above

5th Sep 2006, 20:33

Crazy as it seems, maybe, just maybe for once the announcement will be positive - its about time. The impending closure of SOU is unbelievale. Not too many years ago we had the place to ourselves, a fleet of new aircraft and a big affluent catchment area - quite how our management managed to trash that I will never know. Some base closures and fleet cuts were understandable, others (mine included) were just rationalisation for the sake of it, with profitable routes and bases being snapped up by competitors like Air South West and flybe. And yet...., the doom mongers who hover round waiting for us to disappear might be disappointed. We have delivered exactly what our owners wanted - some prime LHR slots, a dumping ground for aircraft they didnt want, a way of ridding themselves of a loss making regional operation and a place to try out risky new products. Far from being a basket case, BA Connect continues to be very useful to BA. They keep a presence in the regions, they can trial ideas like buy on board before moving them to mainline and now the LCY operation is making some serious money. Our average yield has dropped (it had to) but I have done more max weight takeoffs recently than I can remember - we seem to be getting more bums on seats at long last, proving that some long overdue advertising is paying dividends. Most of us want this to work. Who knows - top level management shake up and some new aircraft ??? - stranger things have happened.....

brain fade

5th Sep 2006, 22:14

Philias Fogg
You are so right. Just look at American Eagle or (is it) US express.
There is a genuine market for non loco (I won't fly with Ryanair again!) travel. A little more expensive, but a much better product. You tend to get what you paid for.

100 above. Agree
The worst is past. Next 'announcement' ought to be +.
On the other hand, if it isn't.................:{

Dash-7 lover

5th Sep 2006, 22:41

Yet again another BA Connect rumour......yawn yawn. There's at least one every week - there should be a seperate website all togther. I'd ignore this one along with all the rest. The only definite news for October are the Q2 results...which they'll want to paint as dire to avoid a long overdue payrise...but if they are then WW will not be happy - good ol catch 22!!

Phileas Fogg

5th Sep 2006, 22:48

But Brain Fade,
The LCC's are not necessarily cheaper than the regulars. often that is just a publicity stunt, on a recent trip a certain Dutch carrier was cheaper than a certain 'Tango' carrier and despite a certain German carrier's appalling sandwiches at least you get a sandwich and indeed a beer.

Richae

5th Sep 2006, 22:50

Have to agree with Phileas Fogg to some extent as I too used to prefer flying with a 'recognised' carrier rather than a lo-co. Consequently I always flew BA out of Birmingham unless going somewhere they didn't fly.

However since the wonderful decision to create Connect I have most definitely had a change of mind. When you pay 600 quid for a flight and still end up forking out for a cup of coffee then you know someone is taking the p*ss to be quite frank. Yes yes, I know there is one seat on the plane for sale at 29 quid but that's not much consolation when all of the other seats are twice as expensive as they used to be! I came to the conclusion months ago that if you're going to get Ryanair levels of service (which is what you get from BACON these days), then you might as well save some money and just fly with them anyway.

I used to fly with BA at least once a week on full fare tickets but haven't been near them for months now, and know many others that have done the same. The aircraft may well have more pax in them these days but the fact that the regulars are voting with their feet is what will doom BACON.

Phileas Fogg

5th Sep 2006, 22:59

Richae,
Thanks for the warning regarding BA Connect, I hadn't appreciated they only offer a LCC service, I just need to fly with BA once every 3 years to maintain my accumalated Executive Club points, it's been about 2 years since I flew with BA so now so I can avoid them for up to another year.

My last trip was to Dusseldorf from Brum, I could have gone direct with BA or LH but paid a high price to thereafter sit in the hotel bar all night, instead I got a lower fare via Amsterdam and enjoyed a beer or three whilst transiting Schiphol. If BA do not want the business then there are others out there that do.

RealFish

5th Sep 2006, 23:32

BHX ?

Years ago in the days of good old British Rail, I lived in Blackpool. desperate to achieve cuts they announced timetable changes that meant that trains from Blackpool arrived in Preston five mins after the London train had departed. 'But no-one uses the service now' they cried. We'll have to scale back at Blackpool South.

I only mention this because with some leave to take shortly, I fancied a quick hop abroad. Preferring to travel with BA I reckoned that that their new World Offers Sale would be just the thing.

Guess which major airport BA are not making world (well european) offers from?

BHX

Now call me suspicious but I suppose that BA really can't have increased customer demand buggering-up their rationalisation strategy

Phileas Fogg

5th Sep 2006, 23:40

RealFish,
Forget 'so called' World Offers, check out fares available on http://travel.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/c_172201_flights.html and then go direct to a particular airline website for the best deal as the travel agencies tend to add a few quid on top and then charge for a credit card transaction.
PF

brain fade

5th Sep 2006, 23:44

Phileas
Do your own research and make up your own mind. Likes of Easy jet et al AND Ryanair are often, but not always dearer than BACON.

Frankly the price of a drink and a sarni pales into nothing compared to the price diff. Also BACON tickets are transferable and there are other plusses too.

Like I said earlier. Do your research...........and let us know how you got on:D

tiggerific_69

5th Sep 2006, 23:46

Richae
You wouldnt believe how much the crew get moaned at by passengers about the price of their fare since BA Connect went live.what do they want us to do about it?we have been putting report after report into the fleet office,for them to pass onto management but as usual,they arent listening to us.Its taken them 5 months to give us extra beer and water on certain flights.
Id like to hope this upcoming "announcement" was positive.Its about time we did have something positive.Maybe DE is leaving...we can only hope.

4468

6th Sep 2006, 00:29

I hope it's not more bad news for BACON. When was there last any good news?

Seriously, Richae and Phileas Fogg raise very good points. BACON is neither fish nor fowl. Whether you like it or not, it ain't low cost (indeed as Richae said, many of the seats are now more expensive than they used to be!) Go figure??

And it's definitely not 'full service'!

BACON came in to being for many of the reasons previously alluded to. Five years ago, BA were provided with a 'once in a lifetime opportunity' to exit regional flying. They grabbed it. But they had no concept, nor plan as to how they would go forward (unless you believe that they always intended terminating regional flying as soon as it was cheap enough so to do!)

I understand that commercially BACON are not setting the World on fire. That's a shame, because I understand there are many good people there. Tiggerific seems to be a good example. Mostly, it aint the troops on the ground that are at fault. The responsibility for the passing of BA from the regions will lie much further up the food chain.

Let;s hope the pessimism is unwarranted.

brain fade

6th Sep 2006, 00:35

Phileas.

Roger:)

speed freek

6th Sep 2006, 07:33

The announcement is probably going to remind us we're losing a Dash 8 and the Belfast night stop......as well as starting the rumour mill again for the next announcement.

Personally, I hope it's to let us know we're gonna get a X-mas bonus this year!! Please don't laugh too hard :}

ETOPS

6th Sep 2006, 16:47

Connect is on it's way to the butchers slab

Sadly true :{ It's an open secret the WW has already decided to leave the regions - he is quoted as saying (last week) "it's got no connection with BA mainline and doesn't make anywhere near enough money"

He went on to threaten LGW in similar terms .........:sad:

bruppy

6th Sep 2006, 17:22

Stand by for the next chop. A "Big Shakeup" being announced in October.

Who, what, when, where this time??:ugh:

The service may still survive but differant, H/A's have already been approached to provide a total GH service!!

towerview

6th Sep 2006, 17:24

Phileas,

Your site Kelkoo does not cover the market very well, for Europe at any rate. A superb tool for searching the best option is skyscanner.net , good graphics and an equal treatment of Loco and traditional offerings. Try it and see.

zed3

6th Sep 2006, 18:43

I have travelled from Dusseldorf to Manchester and vv. about seven times a year for the last 15 years or so . I have seen the service deteriorate over the years but the crews were always great as usual , B737 , B146 or E145 ..... great , professional , helpful and with a sense of humour . However , this coupled with the over-the-top recent "security" measures , I now use the Rotterdam-Hull ferry with my car , overnight , yes but the timings are almost as good as BA , on the whole and I am in the flat on The Island within one hour of dis-embarkation early morning , as opposed to 3 hours in the train from Manchester (First Class- L95,00 return) . I'm getting used to this and BA is the loser . Working in aviation (ATC) I am saddened by this but that's life , I pay the (full fare) bill and I am more relaxed in the long term . BA you are on the wrong track .

cabingal

7th Sep 2006, 08:52

Well said Tiggerific - it has taken management so long to listen to us - it was embarassing when we would run out of water on a Milan flight. At last we seem to have a couple of back up bars.
I am hoping that the announcement will be positive - not sure it will be but I am trying!!! I will honestly be gutted as I enjoy my job + I know I give excellent customer service. Sorry if I sound like a jobsworth but hey - I just hope I don't lose my job!:ugh:

fat'n'grey

7th Sep 2006, 10:18

Reduced routes/pull out of SOU was mentioned earlier.

What I have never understood is why SOU was/is not marketed. Anyone flying to near Europe, Scotland or Ireland that lives in central London or the M3 corridor can take a train (one of the few cheap networks - London Waterloo or points west to SOU return = less than Heathrow Express return!!) direct to SOU airport parkway, and walk 30m and be in the terminal. You can also drive, why endure the M25?

Central London to BRU via LHR, or via SOU? Quite simply SOU is faster! And the journey to the airport is more pleasant, check-in is faster (virtually no queues), a little stroll to the gate (not T4 marathon) and more flights leave on time than they ever do from LHR.

SOU like all regional airports is small, very fast to transit, very, very fast baggage recovery, small (if any) queues. Quite simply it is faster, less walking, so less tiring than LHR. People smile at you and are helpful, and yes it makes flying a pleasure again.

Have you ever, ever heard the advantages in speed, time and comfort flying from SOU nationally and properly marketed (radio, TV press) by any airline touting for business? Why not? Some people just are not doing their job.

Oh, how I miss flying across the ditch from SOU.

Oh dear!

Centralwings

7th Sep 2006, 11:18

It is refreshing to read that there are other customers out there who are not interested in the basic LCC product. I do not consider BACON a LCC and last month enjoyed a return flight MAN-GLA-MAN with them for what I considered a good value fare. The product was well received:

1) When buying the ticket I did not have to decide if or how many items of checked baggage I may require and consequently have to extra pay for this service.
2) I received Frequent Flyer Points for my affiliation programme for another ONEWorld alliance carrier (Iberia).
3) I was allocated a seat at check-in and did not have to partake in a rugby scrum at the boarding gate.
4) The aircraft (Dash-8) was well prepared for service, clean, and the crew were caring and professional throughout the journey.
5) The ground support is there both visibly and behind the scenes if and when things do not go according to plan (e.g.: mishandled baggage, flight cancelled, lengthy delay, etc.).
6) The on-board service was an extensive menu and reasonably priced (the afternoon tea including 2 sandwiches, Devonshire Scone, and coffee for 4 quid being a definite winner!)
7) The choice of flight timing and frequency on this route at least was excellent, a good spread of flights throughout the day.

All in all I would, and have, recommended BACON. However, I only wish more managers would understand that not everyone wants an LCC experience and a desire for a "traditional" airline product still exists among many business and leisure travellers in the regions and from hub airports. For me BACON is not in the same business as a LCC for the reasons outlined above and should therefore not try to be........

CW

tiggerific_69

7th Sep 2006, 11:45

nice to hear that CentralWings and im sure the guys and gals down in MAN will appreictae it :ok:

Wee Weasley Welshman

7th Sep 2006, 13:54

Meanwhile, Ryanair's rapid expansion in recent years, which saw its passenger numbers increase from 19.4 million in 2003 to 24.6 million in 2004 and 30.9 million in 2005 is surpassed by easyJet who saw 28,291,000 passengers in 2004 turn into 32,100,000 in 2005 (up+13.5%).

These numbers are the real reason why the likes of BACON are having a hard time. For every passenger that wants a full or partial service on EU shorthaul or Domestic there are dozens and dozens and dozens that don't.

On every airport pair that Ryan or EZY have ever contested with a traditonal airline they have won. They are like the Borg. Lamentable, but, market forces at work.

Cheers

WWW

Phileas Fogg

7th Sep 2006, 14:08

(For every passenger that wants a full or partial service on EU shorthaul or Domestic there are dozens and dozens and dozens that don't.)

Perhaps so but that will be why the likes of Ryanair will operate B737-800's and the likes of Lufthansa Regional, KLM Cityhopper and BACON will operate the likes of F50's & 70's or Bombardier & Embraer Pocket Rockets. It's a little like saying that there is no need for a High Street coffee shop because McDonalds is available.

Where BACON fall down as opposed to the other regionals I mentioned is that they do not offer the flight connections on a 'through' fare that others do. As an example BA and LH compete on the BHX-DUS route, with LH you have all the onwards connections but with BA your journey stops in DUS, there's only so many people that want to travel to DUS from BHX.

Curious Pax

7th Sep 2006, 14:09

Fair points WWW, but 2 observations:

a significant number of the 60+ million pax would never have gone BA (or similar) in the first place, partly due to different routes, and partly due to the demographics of air travel in the UK being so different now to 10 years ago.

The idea of BA competing with a locost is interesting - a white flag before the ink has dried on the locost press release announcing a route seems to be the usual form!

Where I do think BACON (or its predecessors) missed the boat is the market that Flybe seem to be cornering - the equipment they had 5-6 years ago was well suited to do nicely there, but they seem to have been like rabbits in the headlights of all the other locosts.

Maximuss

7th Sep 2006, 18:26

Southampton was a jewel in the crown for BRAL, but it competed on a number of routes pretty well directly with LHR. For all the reasons that fat'n'grey mentions, it was a winner and had a huge catchment.
Our SOU personnel watched over the last 2 - 3 years as marketing was withdrawn, and competition surrendered to. :ugh: They pointed it out over and over and over, and begged management to get the message. Management consistently said things were about to change, whilst doing the square root of eff all. The problem is that BA don't WANT a successful airline at SOU. It shows, however, their complete dunderheadedness that they don't see that FlyBe are poised to become the success that BRAL were. They deserve it too. But then, remember that BA were the strategic and tactical masterplanners who sold GO..............:rolleyes:

I fear....."The End is Nigh".........:{

Richard Taylor

7th Sep 2006, 20:23

Will BACON put up a fight on BHX-ABZ now that they're being attacked by Baby on one side & flyBE (from Spring 07) on the other?

Captain Correlli

7th Sep 2006, 21:36

Don't know much about FlyBe, although we do seem to lose pilots to them. One of the best management trainers in BACON recently left to become their Head of Training, he is already badly missed because he also effectively ran the 146 fleet despite the best bungling efforts of our soon-to-be demoted fleet manager. Can Flybe possibly fail? All BACON ever does is capitulate when competition starts up.:p

Interested in any comments on Flybe - anybody got any comments on what they're like to work for?:confused:

Centre cities

7th Sep 2006, 22:04

I think that it is much more likely that with a spring 2007 start that Flybe will have second thoughts.

Centre cities

uncovered

8th Sep 2006, 08:37

Word on the street is Flybe going to announce 4 a day on BHX-ABZ. As I just posted on Flybe thread- I think Bacon will exit in March, and Baby will lose their shirt in the winter.

Ransman

9th Sep 2006, 01:05

One of the best management trainers in BACON recently left to become their Head of Training, he is already badly missed because he also effectively ran the 146 fleet :

Can you give me a clue who, initials maybe, his will have signed my licence in the not too distant past. Cheers.

PM works well for such exchanges

turnipgreen

9th Sep 2006, 10:29

So with all these BACON attackes and issues, why dont they develop more at LCY? From what I can see as a egular flyer from their, the EDI service I use is always packed and the FRA is pretty good a well. Not had a need for MXP yet as their schedule isnt very good. The new MAD service will be ideal for me and lots of colleagues in the city. The great thing is that I get to choose sectors between BA @ LHR & LCY which increases my choices enormously. So what else would work there? I have used the SAS service to CPH and would prefer if BA came on that!

Kak Klaxon

9th Sep 2006, 11:25

unimuts

9th Sep 2006, 11:58

Why worry ? Flybe are recruiting :) Happy days

:}

Railgun

9th Sep 2006, 12:54

Friend of mine is being made redundant from Southampton by BA Connect,12 years service as a Capt he gets just under 6000,how cheap can BA get.(BA own BA connect, what a shabby way to treat loyal staff).

Pha thats a better offer than some staff i know with over 20 years service for Mainline.

Kak Klaxon

9th Sep 2006, 18:18

Sorry Railgun I thought this was sinking to a new low.I will shut up now as I can see its bad for all outside of LHR.Goodluck to all at Connect, LGW and anyone else not going to T5.

Railgun

10th Sep 2006, 11:53

What is to say the announcement will not be the Connect product been launched from LGW on all shorthaul routes? Part of the business plan is to change the LGW product iirc. That would then allow GB to go to the connect product from LGW as well.

marlowe

10th Sep 2006, 14:02

4468

10th Sep 2006, 15:33

Kak Klaxon

Rather than being "made redundant from Southampton by BA Connect". Don't you mean your friend may be choosing volountary redundancy, rather than the relocation package on offer?

Since I don't believe any of the Southampton aircaft are leaving BACON, why would they want to make any pilots redundant?

Not to mention the number of pilots apparently resigning! Perhaps that's why the 'incentive' for redundancy isn't very tempting?:hmm:

Kak Klaxon

10th Sep 2006, 17:19

4468,I dont know and you could be right so I will say no more.

Railgun

10th Sep 2006, 22:24

I do not know how true this is but have been told that any cabin crew that are contemplating the move to one fleet at LGW the new contract they sign has BA CONNECT writtten on it can anybody confirm/deny?

Guess if that is true then there will be another smooth transition period between 2 different sides of BA! Another BRAL, Brymon, cityflyer merger on the horizon. Wonder if DE will be incharge of the smooth transition period.

tallaonehotel

11th Sep 2006, 21:42

Railgun

I hope not, the man is a bafoon!.
Even before DE came on the scene, we have had a few crackers in charge.
The good people from BRAL, BRYMON etc all got out when the going was good and the money was right.
We have a few good managers who are left, but who have the watersde accountants breathing down their necks for every last penny.
How about a staff buy out?

Railgun

11th Sep 2006, 23:09

Anything but a management buy out.

WeLieInTheShadows

11th Sep 2006, 23:15

Any cabin crew that come to LGW will have a mainline contract, although LGW is still negotiating full entry into the NSP.

Skipness One Echo

12th Sep 2006, 09:59

For what it's worth I think the staff are ALL being led up the garden path. Where are the BA Connect titles on the fleet? er..... on a couple of RJ100s and a smattering of 145s and Dashes. Is the brand really being pushed in the press?

If BA Connect had any future beyone the current aircraft leases they would be hammering the advertising to build brand recognition. At the very least, they would have all the fleet repainted. What do you have? You have "ba.com" down the back which will offer you a LHR / LGW connection before you get to BA Connect at all. Go figure, they are clever people at BA, contrary to the impression they often give.

BUDGIE

28th Sep 2006, 10:02

There is increasing mumblings around that BA Connect will be sold before the financial year end. However, the RJ's will remain under the mainline umbrella and their lease extended with BAe until Embraer can fulfill an extended lease with BA mainline for the 190 which will continue the EDI-LCY-MAD-FRA-MXP etc operation.
I presume this means the BACON RJ pilots will become mainline-similar to the Cityflyer integration.....what happens with seniority in BACON?
Anyone know anymore?
BUDGIE

HZ123

28th Sep 2006, 10:25

Interesting but there will be a lot of digruntled mainliners if the order go's ahead. The LGW 737 are in a desperate condition inside as to are some of the older 320's. Both types are at the top of the customer complaints list. Lastly, what is left of BACON that is worth buying (I am not being nasty), but the whole thing is such a mismatch.

Carnage Matey!

28th Sep 2006, 10:38

I have to agree with HZ here, who would want to buy BACon? I was under the impression that the RJs are still on fairly long leases anyway and i can't see mainline adding an extra type to their inventory, with all the associated costs, just to compete with its own services at its main hub some ten miles to the west. Also I don't see the logic in adding an embraer 190 to the mainline fleet when the A318 is about to be approved for LCY ops and could be integrated into the existing BA fleet.

BUDGIE

28th Sep 2006, 10:49

Well Lufthansa were very eager to purchase the business less than 2 years ago to utilise the airline as a feeder for their longhaul services. This was immediately blocked by mainline for obvious reasons.
Operationally the A318 is a loss maker on the LCY operation which apparently makes the BA group shedloads of money. The banking contracts that exist are expanding too.
I understand the Embraer is best suited operationally to the route network and BA are keen on dominating the LCY operation before A318's can fit on the pan and EZY move in. The overall impact to the Club loads ex-LHR if an LCC LCY operation existed would hit BA SH very hard indeed.
Indeed what is said about the RJ leases is relatively correct, but the delivery times would coincide with the lease expiries. Also the Embraer order would likely coincide with the LGW replacement order - GB Airways operating as BACON anyone? - and the 30+ 777/787 order before the end of 2007.
Anyone in BA firming up 777 orders before the end of October too?
All conjecture of course..........

Dani

28th Sep 2006, 10:51

maybe because the E-Jet is much cheaper than an A318, as other airlines also found out. Ordering them now doesn't mean that they have to come next day...

And Embraer also promises to certificate for LCY - and it will be about the same difficulty.

Dani

WHBM

28th Sep 2006, 11:11

Sell off BACon ? Well here are the financial options.

1. Sell to another airline (a "trade sale"). Difficult for BA because any other such airline is likely to be a competitor.

2. Sell to management. This is a euphemism for "Sell to mangement who have borrowed millions from financiers". And the financiers invariably want their money back, plus plus plus, in the medium term (typically about 4-5 years). And who would be in the market then ? See 1. above.

3. Sell to Venture Capitalists. Just a more open version of 2. above, with the same end result.

What is the value of BACon ? Typically it's the real value of the assets if you sold them on the secondhand market, often not much if the aircraft are leased, plus about 3-5 times annual profits, which we all believe is diddly squat, less any reorganisation costs like staff reductions. So there's not a lot in it for BA. Remember BA buying Dan-Air for £1 ?

From a purely financial perspective the best route which would maximise BA's revenue would be to franchise it out, preferably in sections rather than one chunk. This would be a complete going-back on the past decade in this area and lead to all sorts of "Grand Old Duke of York" comparisons. But it would give BA the best financial return.

By the way, have you ever seen the loads on BA out of LCY (especially midday), the routes abandoned, or the lack of subsequent expansion on the routes still operating ? It's not a gold mine.