Is T.fly Pay That Good?

[Fly Better!]

Hi,
I have trawled the forums and come up with lots of different figures for and F/O on the 737 with Thomsonfly, its all left me a little confused :confused: Some say top line 50 to 75k but that includes flexi time.

My understanding is that the basic for someone like me (3500 hours 2500 jet, with 1600 command) joining as an F/O would be about 40k, less 2 k a year for 5 years to pay for the type rating.

Forgetting flexi pay (as its not guaranteed, and I haven’t got a clue what it is anyhow ;)) what would be a safe amount to base my decision on (which Ill get to in a minute), including flight pay and duty pay. I currently earn 49k and take home around 2900 pm.

The decision I have to make is do I take a T.fly job as an F/O or do I take another job I have had offered which is a direct entry command which pays about 51k a year without any sector pay.

In the long term I know which is the better job, and that’s T.fly, however I have to feed the family and pay the mortgage, I am unsure if I can do that with T.fly which is why I need some facts.

Thanks for any info guys /girls.
:ok:

[Bluebaron]

Check out www.ppjn.com for pay scales.

You should take home around 2800 a month with no overtime as a year 1 F/O. as you correctly stated flexi (day off payments of around £360 for F/O £500 for Capt) are EXTRA AND NOT GUARANTEED. That said most pilots will do at least 5 a year at the present some a lot more. I try and average 2 a month and take home around £3300.

Also with those hours have you considered direct entry command?

BB

[GBNPY]

I'd Heard since the fight on a flight deck involving a DE capt and a bitter FO, they were no longer employing DE captains.:=

[Fly Better!]

Thanks for the info, I dont have any 'large' jet experience so I thought it would be more appropriate to start as an F/O and learn the ropes. I was told a while back that I had the hours etc for a DEC but they weren't looking for them at the momment.

The £2800 you mentioned seems doable to me, all I need to do now is get throught day two :)

Thanks for the info.

[Blackcoffeenosugar]

We were 60 pilots on day two in stockholm. Only 19 got throu.. they were recruiting for Tfly, although we had applied for TuiFly

[Fly Better!]

Thats a bit scary! Maybe I wont need to make a decision after all, T.Fly might do it for me :D

Sorry to be thick but could somone explain to me how flexi pay works, I know the figures now but what are the company doing, buying a days holiday off you or are the pilots contracted for so many days off in addition to FTL days off and its these days you can work?

[World of Tweed]

Flexi Working, or FWS, is essentially a way for the company to maintain the operation, save on sub-chartering and in a small wall keep the headcount pilotwise lower than strictly required for the program.

They fill the shortfall in pilots by getting those on a Legal Days Off to volunteer to work for an agreed fee. It is a win-win for the company and the pilots.

Those that want to work extra can do, and the company saves on any sub-chartering and not having to employ the "extra pilots" they would have needed. Please don't misunderstand the company is not rostering on a shoestring but there are clearly occasions where the is a more significant shortfall in man-power than can be covered by standbys.

All you do is take a look at your roster and pick the days off you are prepared to work, submit them online and then wait. Crewing will call offereing you a duty should there be one. If they ring 3 days in advance of the duty you must accept the duty. But if they ring you within 3days of the duty you can respectfully decline the duty. So in a way you are entering a contract to work the Day off if they call you 3days ahead.

If there are no volunteers then crewing have been know to 'cold-call' people in which case it is purely discretionary as to whether you accept a duty or not.

Obviously night duties that encroch into two days off trigger a double payment. So far as FTL is concerned you must still comply with the 8th day off rule and all the other stuff so occaisionally working a Flexi can disrupt the remaining roster period - but essentially thats crewings problem.

What follows is not strictly in the spirit of FWS but highlights an example of the above:

A captain I flew with the other week worked 2 flexis on his days off during the week which then required him to have the following weekend as days off in lieu as he had now been on for 7days. He ended up getting a weekend off that was originally rostered as night flights. Jammy eh... !

[Fly Better!]

Thanks for the help!

Cheers

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Fly Better

As a 2nd year 737 FO my P60 for last tax year showed £61,000.

This included basic salary, sector pay, duty pay, benefits in kind, and about 1 flexi day a month.

As I was away from base for alot of last year (rostered off to DSA) I didn't put in for much flexi, as I wanted to be with the family on days off. However I did get more duty pay for every hour away from base.

Regarding flexi, the easier days tend to pay more. Doing a day TFS or PFO will see you getting one payment for a 12-13 hour duty. However an early ORY (starting before 07:00 local) or late AMS (finishing after 22:00) encroaching on 2 days off, will get you 2 payments for a 4-5 hour duty! :ok:

[Elixir]

On the 737 fleet does the pay vary between bases much i.e. taking account of sector and duty pay?

Also with new joiners going to Doncaster, how long would the wait be for a base change?

Thanks

[fmgc]

Surley these Flexi days cause alot of roster disruption,if you are working "legal" days off that need to be replaced. With your scheduling agreement in order to get somebody to cover the duty the required pilot establishment must be quite large.

At Tfly do you get more days off than the legal minimum?


What is the Tfly sector pay rates and/or flight pay?

Is it the overall pay/pension etc the same for all TFly pilots, new/old, 737/757?

[MAX]

fmgc,

Normal rules apply. A flexi cannot be offered if it affects the pilots subsequent duties or those of another pilot. The idea of flexi is we need LESS pilots, not more. It does not cause disruption but fills the gaps.

Yes, we get more than the legal minimum. How else could the flexi system possibly work?

All new joiners, regardless of fleet, share the same salary agreement. New joiners, however, are not eligible for final salary pension until after 5 years of service.

Hope that helps.

MAX:cool:

[Pilot Pete]

To be more exact, there are various pension rates even for those already in the final salary scheme. The newer you are the lower the rate; fact of trying to reduce costs.

A flexi cannot be offered if it affects the pilots subsequent duties or those of another pilot Not true. You can offer ANY day off for flexi, whether they use or not is a different matter, however, it is not uncommon for you to be asked to do a flexi day which has a knock on effect, i.e. like them having to take you off your next duty to remain legal (say 7 in a row).

You can offer leave back (all of it if you want) and they MAY need you so badly that they use you on all of it! It all comes down to how much cocking up has occured, sickness rates, uncrewed flights etc etc. Their view (as with most things) is to firefight on the day and if this has a knock-on effect, then they will deal with this later. The way the system should work (and mostly does), is to allow them to employ fewer pilots and have a degree of flexibility available, whilst giving roster stability due to more than legal minimum numbers of days off.

PP

Edited to add;

Duty Pay Captains £2.92 per hour, F/Os £2.78 per hour. 34% taxable.
Sector Pay Captains £16.64, F/Os £11.09, S/Os £9.70
Flexi Working Captains £523.69, F/Os £358.32, S/Os £330.75 (although not sure if these are completely up to date).

[fmgc]

Yes, we get more than the legal minimum. How else could the flexi system possibly work?

Exactly why I asked the question, but thanks for the reply anyway.

At MON we only get the minimum legal days off so the system would impose even more roster disruption than we get already (and that is really saying something).

What do you get at Tfly for being on Voyage (staying away from base)?

[Pilot Pete]

What do you get at Tfly for being on Voyage (staying away from base)?

Duty pay 24/7 until you return, plus various differing hotel agreements, but always B&B basis.

PP

[whoopie]

Do you get sector pay plus duty pay when operating out and back at home base? I guess sector pay is taxed at 40%.

[StudentInDebt]

Yes, sector pay is paid per sector operated on top on of the hourly duty pay regardless of where you are. Sector pay is taxed at the full rate.

[essexboy]

Sorry to barge in on this thread but to clarify: you get a salary + sector pay + duty pay as well. Can you give a quick break down of these please. If I have missed it and it is somewhere back in the thead I am sorry to have imposed. EB

[MAX]

A flexi cannot be offered if it affects the pilots subsequent duties or those of another pilot

This is quoted out of schedule F and refers to 'crewing' doing the offering, not the pilot. Sorry for the confusion.

As PP says, the pilot can offer his/her mother in law and her handbag. It seems in busy times flexi rules do get 'flexed'.:}

MAX:cool:

[wobblyprop]

GBNPY,

A fight on the flight deck. How exciting. I hadn't heard that one.

[waffles]

Wobblyprop;

It seems that the only person that has heard about this fight is GBNPY !!!

[Binder]

Is T.fly making any money?

Heard that a 737 skipper trousered neck end of 150k last year with all the flexi payments!

Some web flights far cheaper than Ryanair.

Should alarm bells be ringing?

Binder

[StudentInDebt]

A 737 skipper may have made 150k with flexi payments, although I seriously doubt it unless they were at the top of the seniority list, on scale 2 and a trainer, but without the flexible working scheme the cost to the company would have been far higher in sub-charters etc.

Although it came as a surprise to everyone, despite the best efforts of the management we did make a healthy profit last year, far in excess of the forecast passed during the pay negociations. But being part of a large multi-national one I suppose it all depends on how the accounting is done.