Virgin

[phil_2405]

Virgin Atlantic Airways today announced its expansion plans for the next year which will see the launch of direct services from London to Dubai and toMontego Bay, Jamaica, together with extra service to Mumbai. This will bring the airline's total number of destinations to twenty-eight. by the summer 2006

Services between London Heathrow and Dubai launch in April 2006 and will be operated with Airbus A340-600 aircraft. The services between London Gatwick and Jamaica will operate twice a week on a Boeing 747-400 aircraft from July 2006. Services between Heathrow and Mumbai will increase from three a week to daily from December 2005 on an A340-300 aircraft.

Sir Richard Branson, Chairman of Virgin Atlantic, said:

"I am delighted Virgin Atlantic is launching services to and from Dubai. I have visited Dubai several times in recent years and I’ve been bowled over with what it has to offer and staggered by the commitment to further development. Just like Virgin Atlantic, Dubai is committed to growth and we want to help it happen. It is the perfect holiday destination with all the key ingredients of sun, sea and sand guaranteed! It already offers some of the most stunning new hotels in the world and even more amazing leisure resorts and amenities are currently being built.

"This route is significant because it will be Virgin Atlantic's first destination in the Middle East. Dubai has established itself as the key travel hub of the region and is also a major business centre in its own right. It could offer many opportunities for other Virgin companies and I’m hoping Virgin Atlantic’s presence will be the platform for further expansion."

Flights to Dubai will start with four services per week and build to daily by mid Summer 2006, departing from Heathrow at 20:10 and arriving in Dubai International Airport at 06:20. Return flights depart at 15:30 and arrive into Heathrow at 20:00.

Virgin Atlantic Airways plans to launch services to Jamaica following successful bilateral air services talks earlier this month in Kingston between the UK and Jamaican governments. Subject to final approval from the Jamaican government Virgin Atlantic plans to launch two services a week between London Gatwick and Montego Bay. Sir Richard Branson, Chairman of Virgin Atlantic, said:

"Virgin Atlantic has wanted to launch services between the UK and Jamaica for some time and this new deal has given us the opportunity to do so. From next summer, passengers travelling between the UK and Jamaica will benefit from the increased competition, which will ultimately lead to better value for money and quality of service for passengers travelling on a route which has been dominated by British Airways.

"Virgin Atlantic began services to the Caribbean in 1998 with flights to Barbados, St Lucia and Antigua. In 2003 we launched weekly services to Grenada and Tobago and this summer we will launch services to both Cuba and The Bahamas.

"Our Caribbean routes have proved to be extremely popular with our passengers and our sister company Virgin Holidays is now the biggest scheduled tour operator to the region. Montego Bay will be Virgin Atlantic's 28th route worldwide and its eighth Caribbean route.

"We would like to congratulate the British and Jamaican governments for reaching an agreement that allows this expansion of services to take place."

Amanda Wills, Managing Director of Virgin Holidays, commented:

"Virgin Holidays is the biggest UK tour operator to Jamaica, so this news will come with much delight for thousands of our holidaymakers in the UK. We already have a fantastic programme in Jamaica, however the addition of Virgin Atlantic's new service will give our customers even more choice and flexibility of travelling with an award-winning airline. I am delighted to announce that we will be launching a stand-alone Jamaica brochure to support this new route. The brochure will highlight our continued support to Virgin Atlantic and the Jamaican Government whilst offering the most exciting range of holidays in the market.

"Dubai also offers amazing opportunities for Virgin Holidays customers having seen growth of over 70% in the last year to this ever popular destination. Not only will it allow us to expand our programme even further in the Middle East, but it will also open a vast gateway to the whole of the Indian Ocean."

Virgin Atlantic will fly to Montego Bay on Mondays and Wednesdays. Flights will depart Gatwick at 09:00 and arrive at Montego Bay at 12:50. Return flights will depart Montego Bay at 15:50 and arrive at Gatwick at 06:40. The route will be operated by a Boeing 747-400 with a configuration of 14 Upper Class seats, 58 Premium Economy seats and 379 Economy seats.

Virgin Atlantic launched flights between Heathrow and Mumbai on 27 March. Following the recent bilateral agreement between the UK and Indian governments Virgin Atlantic has applied to increase these services from three per week to daily. All flights will depart Heathrow at 20:10 arriving Mumbai at 10:35 the following day. Flights depart Mumbai at 15:20 arriving at Heathrow at 20:00. Commenting on this increase Sir Richard Branson said:

"Our growth in India has been phenomenal this year, we were flying only three services per week as recently as January and we will finish the year with 14 per week! We are still looking at other destinations in India to add to out network in the future.?

All new flights to Dubai and Jamaica will be operated on aircraftby an Airbus A360-600 fitted with the Upper Class Suite.

Virgin's new Upper Class Suite, consists of a reclining leather seat for take off, a place to sit and eat a proper meal opposite your partner, the longest fully flat bed in the world with a proper mattress for sleeping on, a private onboard bar to drink at with your friends, a private massage room and four limousines per return trip - all at a price thousands of pounds less than BA’s First Class.

[glamourgirl!]

any other routes on the cards? thought dxb was going to start end of this year ? Ive heard bangalore mentioned and beijing!

does anyone know when the 13 x a340 600 start arriving isnt it from 06 ?

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi,

Excellent News!!

I would love to fly to Dubai on the Upper class suite ( using some of my miles up!!)

Regards

TBS

[flyer55]

Good to see Virgin expanding and giving BA competition on the Jamica Route and going head to head with both Emirates and BA on the Dubai route.

[scroggs]

Dubai was slated to start this year, but the Mumbai route came up and took that capacity - aircraft and crews. Beijing is on the cards, but there are no dates yet. Any other Indian destinations will only be known after bids are discussed by the CAA fo the extra UK-India slots announced a couple of weeks ago - some of which Virgin are presumably relying upon to go daily to Mumbai.

The first A340-600s arrived over 2 years ago; we have 8 of the total of 25 firm orders now on the line. Deliveries will continue until 2008/9.

[apaddyinuk]

Howdy Flyer,

BA no longer operate to Montego Bay, just Kingston which is 4 times a week and always full. Primarily full of UK expats and those returning to visit families from Jamaica, usually in and around the Kingston area. I reckon the VS flights will be primarily holiday makers unlike the ba flights! So i doubt there would be very much competition. Especially considering that the KIN route is basically a PSO route for the commonwealth from the old BOAC days!

[AIRWAY]

Anyone knows how SYD route is doing in terms of passenger loads?

regards

[Standard Jet Dep]

Airway. Generally very good loads. Although I would say about 75% of the pax are HKG pax.
Certainly think we need a second HKG but the signs are encouraging. As always lots of rumours at Virgin about where we go next personally like the thought of a Rio flight that was mentioned. However its all rumour and as we all know you never know what richard will do next.
Brgds

SJD

[AIRWAY]

Thanks SJD for the info glad to hear its all going well :ok:

Cheers
Airway

[newscaster]

A 747-400 will fly in the supplies to Islamabad departing London at 1830 Oct 31st and arriving at ISB at 0730 on Nov 1st.

http://www.v-flyer.com/pages.asp?click=133&pageid=133

[Skipness One Echo]

Last service is 11 January 2006. One presumes that Gatwick will then be an all 744 operation.
Does this have anything to do with the Virgin Nigeria business or was the oil traffic not materialising?

[WHBM]

This route must have been an operational nuisance, having to position an A340 over from Heathrow for a few 3-times-a-week schedules, so utilisation would be poor. Presumably there were more remunerative things to do with the aircraft than that !

[glamourgirl!]

Yes i have heard the route is going to virgin nigeria and that will free up the aircraft for a daily capetown during the rest of the winter. Then an extra US service in the summer ( possibly the return of chicago.) Also mentioned in my last crm a few weeks ago was Vancover, Accra, Soel and bangalore are the next new routes.

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi,

I would love VS to fly to Vancouver ( as a VS frequent flyer) or any canadian city ( I was planning on going to Toronto in 2001 but the route was pulled after 9/11.

Regards

TBS

[Navy_Adversary]

It's about time VS started flights to BKK, that's a fun place if there ever was one.

[TANGO100]

I think that Virgin should operate a Virgin-Atlantic route asap from Leeds/Bradford asap there is a massive outcry for such a service from leeds but no one is listening........ who ever operates a flight from here will make ££££££££££££££

[terrywilcox]

just a point of interest - DSA will take the 340,and Branson is still showing interest.

[Re-Heat]

This route must have been an operational nuisance, having to position an A340 over from Heathrow for a few 3-times-a-week schedules, so utilisation would be poor. Presumably there were more remunerative things to do with the aircraft than that !
Do you know how much Nigerian routes make?! The place is awash with oil; I am sure that group-wide there would be a strategy to make this up somewhere else, for example through Virgin Nigeria. I doubt the traffic did not materialise - are you sure it is not moving to LHR to connect better to other oil routes?

I think that Virgin should operate a Virgin-Atlantic route asap from Leeds/Bradford asap there is a massive outcry for such a service from leeds but no one is listening........ who ever operates a flight from here will make ££££££££££££££
You too can make ££££££££ in my pyramid scheme...PM me. You'll make a great financial analyst I assure you. Go back to Flight Sim.

[Self Loading Freight]

Any idea when the Vancouver route might materialise? I know a few people who'll be dead keen on that - using the San Francisco West Coast Hub palls after a while...

R

[MarkD]

VK are moving from LHR to LGW in late Nov, and VS LGW-PHC pax are being rebooked to VK LGW-LOS-PHC (so sez VS website).

Timings of VK LGW and JNB services indicate a second aircraft, presumably one replaced by the A346 due (according to Jethros) this month.

There is a longstanding thread in African Aviation here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171392&perpage=20&pagenumber=11)

[Skipness One Echo]

Just as a reply the aircraft was utilised well. Position over on a Monday, left late and got back Wed early, left late Wed back early Fri, left late Fri back early Sun and then picked up in the afternoon to Heathrow.
Oddly enough, the Virgin Nigeria VK Heathrow service is now only using the VS code. But they are moving to Sussex in a few weeks.

[WHBM]

SOE

That's not good utilisation. You can do a daily round trip to Nigeria with one aircraft (out day back night) as is done to Lagos. This one did three round trips a week, plus the positioning costs.

If the Nigerian routes make as much as sometimes claimed, wonder why this route has gone, why Nigeria Airways staggered into bankruptcy, why Kano disappeared from all international routings, etc. And that's before all the tickets sold on credit cards which subsequently get dishonoured, and the costs for all the aircraft damage regularly done on the potholed runway surface at Lagos.

[Re-Heat]

If the Nigerian routes make as much as sometimes claimed, wonder why this route has gone, why Nigeria Airways staggered into bankruptcy
Pure corruption is why.

[Bluebaron]

http://www.marketingweb.co.za/adchat/388603.htm

fantastic!!

BB ;)

[Kace]

Sure is a very funny commercial!

But it´s not really new, is it? I already had it on my computer about 10 months ago.....

[747FOCAL]

Brilliant. :E

[nosher]

Does anyone know why Virgin Atlantic has stopped offering flight to Kuala Lumpur on a codeshare basis with Malaysia Airlines?

[Globaliser]

Off the top of my head, ISTR that this was something to do with SQ buying a chunk of VS, and VS then codesharing on SQ services to SIN. May also have had something to do with the introduction of LHR-HKG-SYD, too, which eliminated the need for VS to offer its code on LHR-KUL-SYD on MH metal.

[night hawk 150]

Hello just a quick note to ask if anyone can tell me what type of aircraft and reg that virgin use on the GTW to orlando florida route please


thanks
Craig

sorry thanks for your replies it is from GTW

[Gaza]

I thought all VS MCO flights left from LGW.

In any event they would rotate the aircraft.

http://www.v-flyer.com/ is a good site for more specific VS info.

[apaddyinuk]

As Gaza states correctly all VS flight to MCO leave from LGW and not LHR. VS operate their 744's on the route.

[Gaza]

Hello just a quick note to ask if anyone can tell me what type of aircraft and reg that virgin use on the GTW to orlando florida route please
thanks
Craig
sorry thanks for your replies it is from GTW

As you have discovered you cannot change the title of your thread so why have you changed the content - LHR to GTW? The ICAO code for London Gatwick is LGW.

As I said in my first reply try www.v-flyer.com

[Shanwickman]

Gaza you are getting your ICAO and your IATA codes mixed up.
The ICAO code for London Gatwick is EGKK. The IATA code is LGW

[Gaza]

Gaza you are getting your ICAO and your IATA codes mixed up.
The ICAO code for London Gatwick is EGKK. The IATA code is LGW

Doh! :uhoh: Fingers going ahead of brain. :O

[Wycombe]

All VS flights ex LGW are on the 744, except I believe for Port Harcourt.

The LGW 744's are a different fit to those based at LHR, with a smaller Upper Class section and Premium Economy upstairs only. All of that means more Y class and a greater overall pax capacity for what are essentially leisure destinations.

I'm taking one to MCO next month.

[Globaliser]

Hello just a quick note to ask if anyone can tell me what type of aircraft and reg that virgin use on the GTW to orlando florida route please
...
sorry thanks for your replies it is from GTWAnd just to complete the lesson, GTW is at Zlin in the Czech Republic.

[spannersatcx]

all VS flight to MCO leave from LGW except those that leave from Manchester of course!

[gatwicknose]

Just for info... VS fleet from Gatwick is more sardine can than LHR..seats closer together..more sweaty masses and poorer service... No axe to grind personally but cut thru the hype and its really nothing special. Better service and pretty much the same IFE on CO/US/DL etc etc...

Oh yes , and for the bilingual amongst you...this week we will mostly be putting up our signs in Italian!!

[Wycombe]

Gatwicknose,

I gave the official version of the difference between the VS LHR and LGW 744 layouts in an earlier post (not that I work for VS!) I think you will find that the seat pitch in Economy is the same whether you fly on either fleet (although as I mentioned there are more Economy seats on the LGW aeroplanes).

If you are referring to the Italian language placards in these aeroplanes, I believe this is because the 5 LGW-based 744's were built for Alitalia, who cancelled their order quite late on making them available for SRB, who wanted to put his classic's out to pasture (or desert, actually).

[gatwicknose]

Differences between LGW and LHR fleets are not even subtle. I am not on a bashing mission here but there was a time when virgin were in the forefront but now what they do is duplicated by many carriers. The way in which safety demos are reduced to rather silly cartoons, and the general attitude of the crews (notably ex LGW) looks tired and unprofessional. They really need to tighten up their act at LGW!

[Wycombe]

Yes, agree that a lot of other carriers have now caught up with what Virgin were doing 10 years ago and that this has made them seem more run-of-the-mill (I flew LAX-LHR with VS in Jun95, and well remember that they were one of very few with PTV's in Economy at the time)

I actually quite liked the safety "cartoon" with Leslie Phillips and Susannah York doing the voices, just because it was different and very "British" - are they still using it? (it's been 2 years since my last VS flight)

Indeed some carriers are now surpassing what Virgin do, notably in the UK First Choice (a charter!) who are offering what looks like a very good long haul product.

[The Big Easy]

Hi all,
Still live with the hope of employment with Virgin. Any word of new route's in the foreseeable future?
TBE.

[Flightlevel001]

Hi there,

We have Dubai starting at the end of March from LHR, and Montego Bay (Jamaica) from LGW.:=

[The Big Easy]

Flightlevel001 thanks. Had heard rumours of new route's to South America and Japan.

TBE.

[Flightrider]

Virgin have asked to be designated under the UK / Brazil air services agreement.

[goldeneye]

There was an article in the TTG last week, to say that Virgin are looking at flights from GLA & BFS as they are commited to the regions, id guess it will be MCO but i wont hold out too much hope.

[Club World]

Mauritius is a definate on the cards!!!

[toledoashley]

Yes, I would like to see a Mauritius flight. Maybe a once weekly Maldives, also in the future I could see maybe Cancun, Seychelles and Phuket.

[shamrock7seal]

when did they announce Nassau? Is that old news?! :O

anyway - Japan is a good one as JAL reducing freq and cap on some services.

rumours within Virgin that Dubai is a mistake - cant compete effectively with Emirates etc because of the lack of onward connections. Personally I think its a profitable option - a no-brainer. anyone else have a view?

Would be good to see CANADA, KOREA, SOUTH AMERICA

[toledoashley]

No Dubai isnt a mistake. I think there is a lot of expansion potential on the leisure side at the moment. What about a routing to Australia through Kuala Lumpur - against a struggling Malaysian - surely a winner!

[Denzil]

Or to Melbourne via Dubai!!! Any links to the article about GLA & BRS routes.

[striparella]

Another daily service to JFK coming in a couple of months, and another Honkers coming next year, and Beijing sometime i don't know.

I've heard rumours of Chicago or Toronto coming back as well.

I've also heard rumours of Lahore but i hope this isn't true. I think VS should concentrate on broader horizons like Brazil/Seychelles/Melbourne/Auckland etc

[toledoashley]

Totally, Virgin need to inonative with their new routes.

[pwalhx]

Virgin have promised expansion from Manchester for some years, OK we have a few extra dyas with flights to Barbados and St. Lucia, how about HKG, CPT, DXB or PVG as well

[Kestrel_909]

My ears have popped up.

BFS and GLA? Sounds interesting, any more information?

[Wycombe]

...if VS are going to operate more flights to/from MCO, they are going to need to do something about the zoo I experienced last night at their Gate area in Terminal B.

Just not enough space/seating for 3 full 744 pax loads, with all departing to the UK within a couple of hours.

[Mister Geezer]

Read in an article in a Middle Eastern travel magazine where RB said that the thought of tagging on another destination onto the Dubai has not been ruled out. Muscat was suggested as a possibility. He also expressed an interest in Abu Dhabi and also eventually Doha as well.

Read somewhere else that Virgin was considering a partnership with Emirates on the Dubai route. Possibly codesharing on VS west bound routes and the reverse on some EK east bound routes. Think DXB lounge access was another feature that was mentioned.

Don't think DXB is a mistake - the city is expanding at a huge rate and is a growing holiday destination. The Virgin brand will undoubtedly prove popular.

[spunkydunkie]

there is rumours on galley fm of a man/ jfk ! and have heard several rumours about sri lanka from lgw on b777!( 2 engines for long haul then)

[veryEZYboy]

there is rumours on galley fm of a man/ jfk ! and have heard several rumours about sri lanka from lgw on b777!( 2 engines for long haul then)

Ah, Galley FM, my favourite station!

[MercenaryAli]

Anyone know (I mean know! not rumour control) anything about a possible Virgin America ? This is for a good friend of mine who would like to know and lives over the pond. Many thanks in advance.

[night hawk 150]

Hi All

i have just booked and paid for my honeymoon :eek: :p in florida and will be traveling First Class :ok: with Virgin Holidays from Gatwick to Orlando.

Can anyone tell me what aircraft type they use any any other usefull information about the route and flight. :}

Regards
Craig

[ric180880]

LGW-MCO uses a LGW Gatwick based 747. These aircraft are not fitted with V:Port IFE, and as far as I know do not have inflight beauty treatments available.

[PPRuNe Pop]

There are better folk than I to tell you but I have done it a time or two as they say. Upper Class is great. They will spoil you rotten - especially if you let it be known you are honeymooners. The aircraft is a 747-400. You will be in the air for around 9 hours give or take.

As for the trip it starts in the Upper Class lounge at LGW and then you are about the last to get on board to be met with bubbly the stuff and bubbly staff.

Danny might even be aboard if you care to find out before hand. He will surely come to meet you if he is.

You can also check-in online the day before if you wish and change your seats if you don't like the ones you get days before you leave.

You will have a fine start to your honeymoon.

And from the PPRuNe mods may we wish you a happy flight and a very happy honeymoon - and hope you and your wife have a very happy and successful life together.

PPP

[spannersatcx]

V:Port IFE pray tell what is this?

[night hawk 150]

PPRuNe Pop

Thank you ever so much for the kind words and quick responce, however DANNY ??? can you tell me who danny is?? and again i don't know what the V:port IFE is.

Regards
Craig

[phil_2405]

V:Port is one of the Virgin Atlantic Inflight Entertainment systems (IFE) - it is only installed on certain aircraft. It offers passengers 'on-demand' entertainment.

[Localiser Green]

Stuff about V:Port, and other interesing info about flying Virgin: can be found on their website or through a web search. On PPruNe it's advertising, no matter how well intentioned.

Most of the LGW 744s have NOVA IFE, some are ODYSSEY.

[spannersatcx]

Actually the LGW 744 have Thales and MAS 3000 systems, VS have given it some peculiar names, i.e. Nova and Odyssey for some reason! Must be a commercial thing!

[Denzil]

Come on Spanners, V:Port is just MAS3000E, Odyssey MAS2000 & as you say the LGW aircraft are a mix of that & Thales IFE.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Student.

I am tempted to let Danny tell you who he is. He might have a bit of fun telling you just who he is too.

Actually he is very busy right now BUT...........he is the owner of this site. The one who gives you the opportunity to use it for free. His day job is as a pilot with Virgin, and he flies the 744 to MCO quite often. Getting the picture?

You will now need one of these :O next time you post.

PPP ;)

[night hawk 150]

:ok: :O :O :O :O :ok: DANNY!!! Hi There (is it working)

PPRuNe Pop

i have been to V flyer and have been looking at thing's about Virgin and as for this very nice person by the name if danny i think you said :O well i wait for contact you never know.

Thanks PPRuNe Pop

Craig

:O :O :O :O :p

[gatwicknose]

You will have a great time in upper class...even though the Gatwick experience generally falls quite a long way short of the "normal" or non holiday routes flown from LHR , the upper class section is substantially smaller and as previous reports suggest the aircraft do not have the latest IFE. Aircraft at Gatwick are frequently late and the general attitude toward those in cattle class at Gatwick is quite different from what you might imagine.

Cannot knock Virgin upper class at all, but the virgin experience is now showing its age, they need to update the overall vibe of the service in coach and achieve the correct balance of fun vs professionalism, at present the cartoon safety briefing says it all!

[Wycombe]

Having recently returned from a trip to MCO with VS in Economy, a few points to add:

- The basic IFE (Nova?) has films and audio only, no games. This is typically what the LGW-based a/c have.
- However, the a/c are rotated to an extent. On our return, there was an a/c swap in MCO to bring the MAN-based a/c to LGW (for maint presumably).
This was VTOP, which has the better systems (Odyssey?), with games, phones at every seat etc. Don't normally do computer games, but did while away some time playing "Millionaire"!

On our return, it was my wife's Birthday. A quick quiet chat with the CSD and some champers and choccies soon appeared from Upper Class...thanks a lot peeps :ok:

[Dr747]

Here is something from the daily Business Recorder's coverage of Pakistani PM's UK visist.
UK airline may start flights
LONDON (March 07 2006): The Virgin Atlantic is studying prospects for launching flight operations from Pakistan, owing to good market prospects and a 15 percent annual growth rate in passenger and cargo traffic. Virgin Atlantic airways is now Britain's second largest airline serving world's major cities.

The chief executive officers of the airline, Steve Ridgeway and Willy Boulter, who called on the Prime Minister at the Douchester Hotel, said they were seriously considering adding Pakistan to their list of operations.

The CEO termed the Pakistani market as "attractive" and said the growing economy has led to a tremendous surge in air travel.

The Prime Minster said apart from growing business trends, there was a tremendous tourist potential. He noted that Pakistan has a large diaspora, particularly in North America, Europe, Middle East and the Gulf, which can utilise services of Virgin Atlantic.


Copyright Associated Press of Pakistan, 2006

Has anyone else heard of these????
if they are going to fly to Pakistan, then which cities are they interested in????

[gtaflyer]

i thought that virgin had to change the aircraft logo(lady in red) before islamabad would accept the carrier as it was offensive in its present design?

[Dr747]

I dont know anything about Islamabad's objections to Virgin's name...would be intresting to hear that what are they????
On the other hand i have a question....how come they are still Virgin???Surely many people have been in and out of those planes!!!!:rolleyes:

[gtaflyer]

i think there was a problem with the red lady showing a little too much on the top.

anyway i dare say its easily fixable by having a bigger scarf around her neck!

[shamrock7seal]

well why not dress er up in a santa clause outfit? the legs must be just as offensive! anyway its about time virgin started putting up pictures of half naked blokes - keep it equal and not sexist - and far more towards my taste.

[Greenfinch]

Maybe they could put her in a red burka :}

[Dr747]

They never objected on the dressing of other female crew on other airlines....so why virgin?
does anyone have the original story, where Pakistan had objected on the clothing? or some is just b:mad: g here????:rolleyes:

[newscaster]

The comments concern the woman logo and not the cabin crew.

[Dr747]

Thanks newscaster!!!I did realise that after posting the reply...:}

[striparella]

Lol Pakistan's been talked of for years at Virgin! It's probably one of those routes that is on the cards but never gets sorted out because something far more interesting and profitable comes about.

VS would do better having a second HKG - again something that has been rumoured for years!!

I'd take it all with a pinch of salt.

[Digitalis]

The second HKG will restart later this year. Pakistan may be on the cards for the future, but it's not in the current route plan. Chicago, Toronto and possibly Seattle are likely to be served before Pakistan.

[striparella]

The second HKG will restart later this year. Pakistan may be on the cards for the future, but it's not in the current route plan. Chicago, Toronto and possibly Seattle are likely to be served before Pakistan.


Good job too - those routes are much better for me than going east!!

[Dr747]

i have just seen 21 March - Virgin Atlantic to fly to Pakistan,more info to follow soon...... on a Bucks based travel agent's website.
so is Pakistan really on Virgin's card to be stared soon...
slightly off the topic does anyone know that which UK airports Airblue are going to fly to?Any airport in the south?and what about other two airlines(aeroasia and shaheen air),who were also allowed to fly to UK, are they also coming over or not? and to which airports?

[goldeneye]

Travelmole (http://www.travelmole.com/stories/108099.php) have a report that Virgin and Air China are entering into a code-share arrangement. See link above for more info. More info at Virgin Atlantic (http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb/allaboutus/pressoffice/pressreleases/news/pr310306.jsp)

[TopBunk]

From a friend....

Apparantly VS have disbanded the A380 implementation team and the 380's are now going to go to Etihad instead.

Also on the cards are 777's to replace A340-600's which aren't performing anywhere close to spec. The 777 production slots have to wait until SQ (who 49%? of VS) have got theirs.

None of this as yet officially announced ..... watch this space.

[Digitalis]

Would this be from a Boing pilot who doesn't want to go Airbus, by any chance?

It's a good rumour, but I can't find any substantiation for it, yet I can find considerable substantiation for the A380 programme continuing. However, the idea of the B777 replacing the B744 on Caribbean and other non-A380-capable routes makes some sense.

The A346 may not match the B777 on fuel costs, but overall ownership costs are pretty competitive - and Airbus themselves said that they would offset any extra running costs incurred by A346 operators. And the accountants love its freight capacity!

If I was a betting man (I'm not), I'd bet on the 6 VS A380 options being taken as A380-900s in high-density Orlando-stylee fit, and the first 6 A380-800s being exchanged for -900s at the earliest opportunity but with an LHR-JFK-friendly fit. I would expect to see the first two A380-800s in service as planned. The B777 will come, but not instead of the A380. The A346 will remain the mainstay of the ultra-longhaul routes.

[vapilot2004]

The 777 replacing the A346 is easy to understand. However , and Topbunk, please forgive my candor, I find the A380 news incredibly hard to believe !

Particularly after all the posh design ideas Virgin had planned for the Super Jumbo. Perhaps they are simply trading delivery slots ?

[Suggs]

This Rumour has been around for about 6 months, still nothing to back it up.

The fact that BAe are selling up does add some fuel to the fire.

[757manipulator]

This is going to sound like gossip over the back fence but...My mate is a 747-400 Snr F/O at VS, who has been told similar things by a certain fleet manager:ok:

[Kinetic]

And then you read in Flight Int that VS have selected Lufthansa to supply a stadardised electronic Nav bag system on all aircraft to mirror the A380 "in preparation of the A380 arrival in 2008" according to director of flight ops Matt lee. He goes on to say "what we didn't want to do was to wait for the A380 to come along and then have to begin this process"

They seem to be preparing and making multi million pound additional orders (as in this instance) around its expected introduction??

I am no expert on VS but what wouldn't suprise me is if these rumours about Boeing were allowed to manifest in order to make any deal with Airbus more competitive.

[Digitalis]

Looking back, the same rumour-mongering went on in the hiatus between ordering and receiving the A340-600s. In this case, it's exacerbated by Virgin's decision to delay the first A380 delivery by 18 months to May 2008, and the subsequent admission by Airbus that there will be a further 6 months' delay in delivery. Much of the theoretical preparation has been done; most of the rest won't be done until the aeroplane is a lot closer to delivery. It's quite possible that some of the integration and introduction teams have been stood down because of the two-year delay, and will be reformed at a later date.

At the same time, VS must be actively investigating the replacement of the earlier B744s, Neither the A380 nor the A346 are suitable for many of the B744's less sophisticated destinations: the A346 through capacity and both types through ground handling difficulties, so another aircraft must be in the frame. The B777 is the only realistic alternative on the market just now (though the B748 may also be being considered), so it's inevitable that VS are talking to Boeing.

I think some people just like adding two and two and making five!

[PPRuNe Pop]

757m,

There are MANY F/O's (and Captains) on PPRuNe who fly the 744, there are many who fly the 346, but I'd take a large bet that the rumour is hand fed, low grade crapola and not one of them would 'announce' it even if they knew!

But then, that is what PPRuNe is all about. ;)

[Anti-ice]

VS has no fancy ideas for the A380 - all just PR hype it would appear ... it is all JUST seats ........... the seating plan is available somewhere..........

[757manipulator]

So would I Pop, so would I:} , but your right..it wouldnt be pprune without these little titbits.

[mini cooper]

Virgin had places on the 777 production line back in 1995 but sold them on for a handsome profit, so I believe. If the 777 is doing so much better on the line in comparison to the A340 then it makes sense to defer the order just like EK is doing.
In EK case I think there are other issues other than just that the A340 is underachieving and has been a nightmare to keep flying from the serviceability point of view (the 777 is doing a lot better than advertised). I think that a delay in aircraft arriving at EK is a small window of opportunity for them to try to resolve the major crewing problems (lack of crews).
:p

[Desert Diner]

Once the novelty wears off, It's going to be hard to associate the 380 as a luxury liner to the traveling public. It's going to be a big bus.

May work for the Middle East and Far East routes but probably not trans Atlantic where the smaller 767/777 and future 787 are probably more prefererable to fly on.

Good rumour but very far fetched for it to be true.

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

I don't think the A380 was ever primarily conceived as a transatlantic aircraft, though maybe Europe to US West coast is more likely. Europe to the East coast is a more fragmented market. Anyway, I see that some coming A380 operators (eg. EK, SQ) say adamantly that they will not put more than 550 or so aboard. I tend to believe them, though in future years I can see some carriers lifting 800+ at a time, no doubt about that.

[BahrainLad]

GCC EK have publicly announced that some of their early A380s will be configured in a 626 pax layout.

[Buster the Bear]

As a poor meek bear, what is wrong with the A340-600 and are these reasons linked to Emirates having issues with the HGW version not making manufacturers 'spec'?

I take it that if the product does not match the marketing hype, then the manufacturer is going to have to subsidise it BIG TIME?

Talk of a re-design of the A350 also required?

Boeing media hype, or reality?

[ETOPS773]

Buster,

The A340-600 is a very good aircraft, however it is competing against the 777-300ER which is one of the best aircraft ever built. It (the 777...) has exceeded its initial performance specifications very early on in its life.

It has a 7% stated fuel burn advantage over the A340-600 and Boeing are sure they can squeeze an extra 3-4% out of it over the next 3 to 4 years.

A big part of the pro Boeing argument is that the A340 is burning more fuel due to having 4 engines, at a time when fuel costs are getting more expensive. So the savings of having a Airbus type "feet wide commonality" with the earlier A340-300s could be stripped away if oil prices go high enough.

John Leahy, the cheif salesman at Airbus is talking about "cashback" incentives to shift them / make up the difference.

Few articles below from Flight Global to digest:
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2002/11/19/158049/Late+deliveries+hamper+Virgin's+A340-600+plan.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2005/05/03/197484/Reliability+lessons+learned.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2005/05/03/197483/The+long+hello.html

The same argument exists between the A380-800 and the 747-800i. But remember that the A380 is presently in its shortest length, hence least efficient form (shortened variants are never that great compared to stretches as weight / passenger ratio is high) and the 747-800i is at its greatest stretch. When the A380-800R with better engines, and the stretched A380-900 are launched, it will be a better aircraft.

[MrHorgy]

From what I hear I would think VS are mulling over the 777, A bird tells me the engineers have all been on 777 courses? Anyone care to confirm?

Horgy

[goshdarnit]

I was going to the same thing 2dmoon, VS are big on the logo "4Engines4LongHaul", so I guess there would need to be a couple paint jobs undertaken!

Heard that Thai (I think) were unhappy with their 346's, and it was the RR powerplant (Trent 500?) that was causing the issue, undoubtedly someone will correct / expand on that...

GDI

[GW76]

If VS are indeed considering regional routes from ie GLA and BFS - then the 777 is an ideal aircraft for their shorter runways.:D

[Denzil]

The fuel burn is a major issue in the A346 vs 773ER, as is OTP. The T500's fuel burn is gradually getting worse. As an indication why are CX sending their A346's back to ILFC at the end of their lease to be replaced by, you guessed it B773ER!!! By the way no VS guys have been trained on the B777, they have been trained on the A330 though!!!!!!!!!

[teamax]

If open skies happens Virgin may have cancel all the aircraft orders!

[coax]

They have only been trained on the 330 to enable them to carry out a contract for jet airways.

[glamourgirl!]

hello im crew for virgin and ive noticed alot of virgin aircraft have had the slogan "4 engines for long haul " removed!

[haughtney1]

Mayby they will replace the slogan with "four engines for fuelburn!":E

[Digitalis]

The '4 engines 4 longhaul' slogan is an Airbus TM, and is not (and never has been) carried by Virgin's Boeings. Some Boeings have carried the slogan 'Better x 4', but that's the closest they got. All Virgin's (and any other airline's) A340 crews are qualified to fly the A330, and have CCQ rights to both the A380 and A350, so there are no surprises there. However, the A330/350 is a much smaller aircraft than the A340-600, and could not replace it in any meaningful way - exactly as there could never be a decision to 'replace' the A380 with the B777; the two aircraft serve different needs.

Virgin have about 15 of the plenned 26 A346s in service, and there are no plans to ditch the aircraft. The B777 is being considered solely as a B747 replacement, and that only for those areas where the A380 (and A346) are not practicable. For that reason, the likely variant is the B777-200, as the -300 has similar ground manoeuvrability problems to the A346.

It may be that there is a developing requirement to replace the A343 more exactly for 'long/thin' routes, and here the B777-200 also fits well, but then so does the A330/350.

Virgin, like most large airlines, are continuously in discussion with the two major airliner manufacturers. It is already a customer of both, and thus has a need for an ongoing support dialogue with both. It also has several orders and options with Airbus, and so will be working with that manufacturer to improve the service its products give. It also must look to the mid-term future for the replacement of current aircraft, particularly the aging (half of the) B744 fleet, and it will be playing the two manufacturers off against each other to get the best deal.

As for OTP, this is a problem for Virgin as a whole, and can't be laid at the door of any particular aircraft type.

[aeulad]

Virgin are simply seeking to defer their deliveries of the 380, no 777s are planned.

Regards

Mike

[GW76]

no 777s are planned.
Regards
Mike
And does that come direct from within fleet management or Dickie Branson himself ?;)

[aeulad]

:} Nope!

I am not with Astraeus any more but I don't know how to change my name on here.

That, I heard from someone that is putting the finishing touches to the Virgin 380 manuals!:E

Regards

Mike

[Digitalis]

So that'll be from the horse's mouth, then? :hmm:

I'm sorry, but someone putting together part of the Virgin A380 manuals is hardly a very authoritative source. Some of the people spouting rumours about the VS A380 order are quite senior in the company (by that I mean at fleet management level), yet even they actually have no information on the subject and are merely adding to the speculation. 'I heard from a mate that...' is the standard opening line for most of these rumours, which instantly renders them worthless. Gossip hates a vacuum, so the long hiatus between orders and the first delivery of the A380 (likely to be November 2008, according to Airbus) is a breeding ground for rumour and counter-rumour.

It's fun to speculate, but there is no evidence of any change to the status of Virgin's A380 orders and options at the moment. Lyle Strambi and the Commercial Department are maintaining that things are on track for the (now twice-delayed) scheduled introduction of the aircraft. There is no objective reason to disbelieve them.

[aeulad]

If you read my post correctly, you would see that I said VS are SEEKING to defer deliveries.

The guy I am on about is the head of SEP at Virgin, and he has never lied to me yet, so as far as I'm concerned, i'll take what he says.

You don't have to agree, and that's just dandy by me:)

Regards

Mike

[spannersatcx]

why are CX sending their A346's back to ILFC at the end of their lease Don't think we are anymore.

The 3 we have are weigh over weight from the original specs given by Airbus, which is why they struggled to get to New York. They have been redeployed to Sydney and London for their respective summer schedules and still go to JFK.

AFAIK they are going to stay on the LHR route through the winter now and not just the summer, that's the latest 3 month plan anyway.

I noticed the 4 eng..... was gone on a 744 today and the immediate thought was, perhaps the 777 rumours are true.:eek:

[crewrest]

How come everyone's noticing that 'four engines etc' are missing off the aircraft? Did they all have it displayed in the first place? Is there an large red patch or some speed tape? Are we all spotters now? :}

Ashtray lad; Does it have a toilet for the Flight Deck and what's the crew rest like?

[MarkD]

here's a thought - maybe Airbus want 4forLH gone given the longer range that the 350 family will bring (according to the spec anyway :E )

[tristar500]

From what I hear from friends who are flt deck at Virgin, the A340-600 certainly does not live up to expectations... Too many faults and problems to go into here, but the VS management seemingly got a good deal on the aircraft and also got incentives towards taking more A340-600s.

The B777, although having only 2 engines will be the next big thing to hit VS.
As the A340 and B747 fleet go in for maintenance, the '4 engines...' logo is being withdrawn.

The A340-300 fleet will slowly head for Nigeria (VS Nigeria) and any other airline that will have them. The B747-400s will soldier on, from LHR, LGW and MAN. I beleive a couple more are being sourced.

The other rumour is that the crew will fly the B747/B777 as a joint type rating however I dont know if this would be possible, but it is what I have heard from VS flt deck crew.

[Denzil]

Try "crew to fly 330/343/346" & you'll be getting closer to the truth!!!!!

[Digitalis]

From what I hear from friends who are flt deck at Virgin, the A340-600 certainly does not live up to expectations...
No doubt they are Boeing flight deck! The A346 has had a few problems, as does any new aircraft, and Virgin is regretting being launch customer as the extra workload is excessive for what is a relatively small company, but in general the company is happy with the A346.

The B777, although having only 2 engines will be the next big thing to hit VS. ...say the same Boeing pilots, hoping that they'll get to fly it!

As the A340 and B747 fleet go in for maintenance, the '4 engines...' logo is being withdrawn. See my post above. The B744 never carried this slogan.

The A340-300 fleet will slowly head for Nigeria (VS Nigeria) and any other airline that will have them. Two A343s have gone to VK. Another 3 or 4 are due to leave the company over the next year. Where they go is the lessors' problem.

The B747-400s will soldier on, from LHR, LGW and MAN. I beleive a couple more are being sourced. Soldier on? They're not that old! The most recent were delivered in 2002. I don't know where you get the rumour about a couple more from; GE-powered B744s are not common on the secondhand market, and there has been no internal statement about any search for more.

The other rumour is that the crew will fly the B747/B777 as a joint type rating however I dont know if this would be possible, but it is what I have heard from VS flt deck crew.

The possibility was raised by VS a few years ago when the then B744 fleet management went to assess the difficulty of transitioning from the B744 to the B777, but it needs CAA/JAA approval. As no current B744/B777 operators have sponsored or sought such an approval, it seems highly unlikely that VS would attempt to do so.

One of the problems with the idea of Virgin operating big twins is that it has no ETOPS approvals and, as far as I know, has not been assessed with ETOPS in mind. What time and labour costs would be involved in obtaining ETOPS approvals I really have no idea, not being an engineer (perhaps Denzil could comment?) but I think it's not as straightforward as it looks at first sight.

[TopBunk]

:
As the A340 and B747 fleet go in for maintenance, the '4 engines...' logo is being withdrawn.

See my post above. The B744 never carried this slogan.

Is the '4 engines ....' logo being removed from the A340 fleet during maintenance? Yes or no?

[spannersatcx]

The B744 never carried this slogan

It was 'Fly a Younger Fleet'

[Digitalis]

You lot need to get yourselves over to airliners.net for a refresher on Virgin's various straplines!

All the A340s carry '4 engines 4 longhaul' on the outboard engine cowlings (except for the odd one after an engine change). Some carry it on the upper rear fuselage, some have other slogans. The one that has largely been removed recently is the 'Backing the Bid - London 2012' slogan which is no longer appropriate, and explains those aircraft flying with a naked back end! Other slogans you may or may not see are 'Mine's longer than yours' (A346 only), and 'You never forget your first time'. There are others.

The B744 does not carry, and never has carried, the '4 engines 4 longhaul' slogan. There are no cowling slogans either. The rear fuselage slogans include 'The Power of 4', 'Better by 4', You never forget your first time', 'Fly a Younger Fleet', and there are still one or two carrying 'Backing the Bid'. There are a few that have lost that one and are currently slogan-less, but Virgin rarely goes for long without some new pithy one-liner appearing.

If you're all basing your speculation on such flimsy evidence as the aircraft slogans, at least make an effort to do some research before you make your opinion public!

[night hawk 150]

I have heard from a very good source that Virgin Atlantic is going to use one of their nice new A380 on the Gatwick to Orlando route next year.

Although i said from a good source can anyone tell me if this is correct or not.

Craig

[qwertyuiop]

Will they have 380's next year?

[Jordan D]

Has work been done at LGW to make it A380 ok?

Jordan

[jethro15]

Will they have 380's next year?
Thought the first one was originally scheduled for 2008, and apparently, there seems to be some doubt about that. It may be later

[jetstream7]

Virgin to use A380 on GTW-MCO

Can Zlin (Holeslov) support an A380 flight to MCO?;)

(OK, I know the thread is about Gatwick, but why not use the correct airport code....?):)

[sevenforeseven]

Not true. No A380 next year (if ever) and MCO and LGW not ready to accept aircraft.
Yes sack your "reliable" source.

[scroggs]

The delivery date for Virgin's first A380 is scheduled as November 2008. The current feeling is that problems at Airbus will slip this to Spring 2009. Virgin's A380-800s are being configured for the LHR-JFK/LAX/SFO markets, not the bucket-and-spade LGW-MCO route.

Your source is worse than useless.

Scroggs

[Spiral]

Just looked at MCO website at www.orlandoairports.net/goaa/main.htm (http://www.orlandoairports.net/goaa/main.htm) and at the top they show that they are ready for the A380 But for who? Would not spend money doing conversion for no reason.

[vespasia]

sevenforeseven

Reliable source may be wrong, but for info Gatwick is fully capable of accepting A380 today if one turned up. RW and taxiway infrastructure is in place, only stands need upgrading, and in the meantime a/c can be parked under Airfield Ops guidance ( might mean temporary taxiway restrictions behind it though. ). Don't know about MCO.:ok:

[MarkD]

If MCO was already doing refit it may have been only a small extra amount to fit A380 spec and thus leave the option open.

When DUB gets 10L/28R going (whenever that is) hopefully a similar attitude will prevail - little chance of it though.

[fadec_primary_channel]

was VS was offered A380 Q4 2009, does not want to introduce another A/C and have similar problems a la A346. So expect a VS A380 in 2010. This is all dependent on VS engineering plus any offers from boeing !!
:confused:

[scroggs]

The dates I gave are accurate and authoritative; they came from Virgin's DFO. While the delivery date could slip further if Airbus hit more problems, the early 2009 in-service date is the best available estimate.

From the first point at which the A380 was ordered, Virgin was adamant that it would not be a launch customer for the aircraft, as the extra workload and subsequent costs involved were not justifiable in what is a relatively small airline, as the introduction of the A346 showed.

[Denzil]

And the VS DFO never tells porky pies!!!!!!!!!

[scruggs]

I've read that opting for the 777-300ER to replace ageing VIR 744's may prove problematic as certain Caribbean destinations don't have the infrastructure to handle these aircraft, due to the nose and body gear being spaced too far apart. Resulting in taxi problems for such aircraft as the 77W / A346.

However, I see that AF are currently replacing their Orly based 743 fleet with High Density 777-300ER's for their Caribbean routes. I'm not sure what destinations AF are intending to operate with the 77W's.

Can anybody tell me please what VS Caribbean destinations could not, without modification, handle either the A346 or the 77W?

Cheers folks.

[TwinAisle]

Just a thought....

How on earth would Virgin introduce 777s onto the Caribbean when they don't have ETOPS clearance presumably?

[scroggs]

From an earlier post on this thread: The B777 is being considered solely as a B747 replacement, and that only for those areas where the A380 (and A346) are not practicable. For that reason, the likely variant is the B777-200, as the -300 has similar ground manoeuvrability problems to the A346.
It may be that there is a developing requirement to replace the A343 more exactly for 'long/thin' routes, and here the B777-200 also fits well, but then so does the A330/350.

As Guadeloupe and Martinique are departements of mainland France, and are by far the most sophisticated islands in the Caribbean, I would not be surprised if they could handle the B773/A346.

Virgin does not currently have ETOPS clearance, but it can obtain it in the same way as all other ETOPS airlines.

[TwinAisle]

Agreed Scroggs, VS is a VERY competent airline and can get ETOPS. But won't this take a year of twin operations? In the meantime, which routes will the hypothetical 777/350s be on?

Makes even more sense to take on the long haul part of bmi?

[scroggs]

I'm not au fait with either ETOPS or non-ETOPS twin-engine operations, but the answer to your question would depend on what is the furthest a non-ETPS twin can be from a suitable diversion, and what other restrictions may be placed on it - or not. For instance, is ETOPS only relevant over sea, or is it a legal requirement overland also? If it's not a consideration overland, Lagos would be a player. Dubai, Delhi and Mumbai shouldn't be any real problem, though the routes may not be as flexible as on a four-engined type. In summer at least, I would have thought that the East Coast USA destinations would probably be OK too.

[TwinAisle]

Not my specialist subject either, but my understanding is that it relates to the furthest distance a twin-engined aircraft is allowed to fly away from a field capable of taking it in case things go quiet. To be allowed to do the trick, the airline has to demonstrate the reliability of the aircraft and its engines in their operation - for a year. I would imagine, thinking about it, that VS would use a twin on DXB, the Indian routes, possibly Lagos, but I can't see it on the Atlantic in VS colours any time soon.

[scruggs]

Thanks folks!

[codpiece face]

etops does not just cover over the sea, i think you will find parts of africa can be classified as etops as no suitable diversion airfield available.

etops can be operated off the back of someone elses approval initially anyway, did bmi not use monarch when they took delivery of the 330's ?.

[spannersatcx]

Have been informed (reliably!) by 2 seperate sources within VS to expect an announcement this week. Better not say what they have heard just in case.:eek:

[coax]

The rumour I have heard is an order for 12 A330 aircraft to be annonced soon.:D

[Localiser Green]

The most interesting thing is that these orders will replace the A380 orders and the last group of A346's.

[phil_2405]

Any idea what routes VS would use A330 on?

[mmeteesside]

Manchester, Glasgow to New York/Orlando/Miami etc ? :}

mmeteesside

[coax]

From what I hear all the a340-600,s ordered are still coming as well as the :D330,s.:D

[spannersatcx]

The last 3 346's are going downunder

[MarkD]

so not foisting the 343s on VB then? (As with VK)

[toledoashley]

New Route*
Gatwick - Mauritius
Starting November 07
Mondays/Fridays

From - new Virgin Worldwide Brochure

[phil2]

why doesent man get anymore routes with virgin.

[akerosid]

Maybe that will happen if/when the rumoured A330s join the fleet?

Any more news on that? Possibly a Farnborough announcement.

[Gpik]

Hey was on another website, was a guy saying the flights from GLA - MCO next year were just about sold out from JUN/JUL. So I looked on VH myself, looks about right, the first flight is only selling Upper seats, so that could be anything up to 14 seats left, not bad with 50 weeks to go, the second and third flights only have Premium and Upper left, so a max of 72 seats. the last of that period has economy left. On an aircraft with 451seats these are good load factors. If things continue this way could the managent extend the season, after all there is plenty of time to do so. Eitherway it bodes well for Summer `08. http://www.taxiwayalpha.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/icon_biggrin.gif :ok:

[xflyer]

Donk know if anyone can cast any light on this , rumour that Virgin may be looking at the possiblilty of either MCO or EWR routes from BHX? . Other current widebody carriers from BHX are , Air India (Delhi and Toronto on 777) , and Emirates (Dubai 777) , Continental (Newark 757) , PIA (Airbus A310).

[tiggerific_69]

if only....

[Off Stand]

Rumour from who? The likes of VS have looked BHX before, but the runway length (or lack of it) has always been a factor. Guess it depends on the a/c used.

[xflyer]

But surely if the other carriers are using 777 and 330's on long haul routes , then it is possible!

[tiggerific_69]

747s can get in and out so its feasible.it would just be restricted.and i dont think Virgin would want that.

[Off Stand]

VS used 747-400's on the route from LGW and MAN. Now, I am not an expert by any means, however one fully laden 747 requires a longer runway than the one at BHX.

[xflyer]

But a 340 would be ok!

[Off Stand]

True, but then VS would have organise dif engineering cover in MCO, depends if they feel it's worth it.

One another note, shouldn't this thread be under "Airlines, airports and routes" banner?

[xflyer]

Engineering is usually contracted out downroute . They would just use airbus engineers i guess - same company , different rating

[Off Stand]

Maybe, but I doubt it. Perhaps someone from VS can tell us what they think?

[arewenearlythereyet?]

VS operate a long haul service, profitably. They don't have spare aircraft laying around to try out stupid routes from airports with performance limiting runways because some anoracks think it's a good idea. :rolleyes:

If you're going to post on a professional pilots website, at least have the courtesy and the intelligence to back it up, to post something that is at least slightly researched and not the fantasy of some spotter who orgasms every time he fantasises about a new carrier operating out of his local spotting haunt.

[xflyer]

maybe you could let us know the address of your charm school?

[scroggs]

Virgin Atlantic are constantly assessing potential new routes, but to my knowledge, Birmingham does not feature on the horizon at the moment. The next UK departure airport will be Glasgow, and that will be for only 6 departures this season!

The runway length at Birmingham is indeed limiting, and ground manoeuvring for A340-600 aircraft is extremely difficult, which constrains Virgin's options somewhat (the A340-300s will be history before long). However, the airline is highly likely to become a large twin operator in the future, and airports like Birmingham may become more attractive once those aircraft are in service.

While there are no current plans that I'm aware of, that does not mean that Virgin will never operate from Birmingham.

Scroggs

[scroggs]

Hey was on another website, was a guy saying the flights from GLA - MCO next year were just about sold out from JUN/JUL. So I looked on VH myself, looks about right, the first flight is only selling Upper seats, so that could be anything up to 14 seats left, not bad with 50 weeks to go, the second and third flights only have Premium and Upper left, so a max of 72 seats. the last of that period has economy left. On an aircraft with 451seats these are good load factors. If things continue this way could the managent extend the season, after all there is plenty of time to do so. Eitherway it bodes well for Summer `08. http://www.taxiwayalpha.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/icon_biggrin.gif :ok:

Don't forget the aircraft is arriving from Manchester with a load already on board. The numbers of seats available from Glasgow were limited right from the start; there's no way that market can generate a full 744 load as yet.

Scroggs

[Skipness One Echo]

Don't forget the aircraft is arriving from Manchester with a load already on board. The numbers of seats available from Glasgow were limited right from the start; there's no way that market can generate a full 744 load as yet.
Scroggs

As opposed to the much smaller Travel City B747-300s stuffed full of punters out of Glasgow every summer or the numerous other flights on A330s just looking for a choice like Virgin?!?!?!?
Get real. Can't make money all year round but seasonal ops could be very rewarding, balanced with winter only routes like LHR-CPT, a balance is possible. Go on Virgin :)

[Localiser Green]

The runway length at Birmingham is indeed limiting, and ground manoeuvring for A340-600 aircraft is extremely difficult, which constrains Virgin's options somewhat (the A340-300s will be history before long).
Scroggs

Ahhh, but the A330 will be ideal for smaller airports like BHX/GLA ;)

That said, I haven't heard of any BHX plans, though as you say several routes are under consideration down at 'the office'.

[Skipness One Echo]

My point is what might work in the near future. Scotland has known limits in these capacities.
A based 747-400 wouldn't work.
A peak seasonal 747-400 operation might. Split with elsewhere perhaps or other leisure destinations.
Daily 744s all summer? Probably never.
An A330 operation? Possibly more suitable for the market.


It's up to Virgin to see how they develop the market potential. And just to be sure, my days of orgasming at the thought of new shiny airlines at my local airport died many a year ago at Glasgow in the 1990s. I have cut down on changing underwear to daily ever since......:)

Phwoar anorak bincs and pole buwahahahahhahaha.
Where's my pills gone?

[EI-CFC]

True, but then VS would have organise dif engineering cover in MCO, depends if they feel it's worth it.


Plus the A340's (especially the 600's) are in a totally different configuration than the limited-J, extra Y config 747-400's VS use from MAN/LGW.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Which way will the Glasgow operate
GLA/MAN to MCO or MAN/GLA to MCO as I think the B744 might struggle ex Glasgow non stop

G-I-B

[Denzil]

The impression from VS is that these flights are ferrying from MAN empty, the loads are just GLA-MCO!!!!

As for the market from GLA, if they can sell 7 x 767's & 3 x 743's plus all the other charter flights, VS could easily fill 2 or 3 744's a week.

GLAGAZ, are those times correct?? Landing at GLA = 12:50 then MAN = 13:50, that's going to be a great transit to see!!!!!!!! Got to agree about the 744 though, if one of those JT9 powered 743's can drag themselves into the sky at GLA, a 744 will have no trouble.

[spannersatcx]

You forgot the time difference between GLA & MAN:E

[afterdark]

in query to 747-400 in & out of Glasgow
when 9/11 occured, Glasgow took in a few 747-400's with a couple of them departing next day to US/Canadian west coast, and Glasgow has been used for medical diversion by quite a few airlines in the past before heading accross the Atlantic
I know that Virgin seniors have told their staff previously that Glasgow cannot accomadate a 747,( even when they were operating 742's ) I am sure my eyes weren't decieving me as I watched them arrive & depart.

[Tom Sawyer]

Engineering is usually contracted out downroute . They would just use airbus engineers i guess - same company , different rating

Engineers are not like pilots. We can be "multi type-rated". At the momment I hold 6 Airbus types and 3 Boeing types, which is not that unusual and there are plenty of guys around with more than that. VS engineers are mostly multi - approved and their outstation guys / contractors will have enough coverage for any VS op's. May just have to recruit more manpower to cope with additional flights. VS do have their own engineers in a number of ports worldwide.

[Off Stand]

And in other places they don't. For example, BGI and ANU they use BA Engineering, they are qualified on the 747 and 777. A different contractor would have to be brought in if VS chose to bring in an Airbus, is that right?

[Gpik]

Scroggs, the flights are positioning fromMAN, they are a full load from GLA, trust me.

[teifiboy]

Scroggs, the flights are positioning fromMAN, they are a full load from GLA, trust me.

trust you? maybe if you got your facts right

[Tom Sawyer]

And in other places they don't. For example, BGI and ANU they use BA Engineering, they are qualified on the 747 and 777. A different contractor would have to be brought in if VS chose to bring in an Airbus, is that right?
Not neccessarily, the company with the contract currently could get its engineers onto a VS A340 type course to get them type approved. The point I was making is that engineers are not restricted to one type at a time.

[spannersatcx]

VS go to 10 a week from 6th July from MAN. as far as I am aware the 073/4 goes to/from MCO.

[Off Stand]

Ah, I see. Cheers Tom.

[Taildragger67]

Any idea what routes VS would use A330 on?

Dubai, other Gulf, bits of India, west Africa... anywhere where there's an alternate not too far away?

Or maybe RB has decided that fuel prices aren't easing any time soon, two donks = less fuel consumption and the in-flight shut-down rate is low enough on Trents to think about ETOPS...

[MarkD]

If they were 332s with Trents they would fit very nicely with another British airline long rumoured to be swallowed by the Bearded One...

[Groundloop]

Agreed Scroggs, VS is a VERY competent airline and can get ETOPS. But won't this take a year of twin operations? In the meantime, which routes will the hypothetical 777/350s be on?
Makes even more sense to take on the long haul part of bmi?

Actually it does not need 12 months experience. An airline could get ETOPS approval within 60 days of applying subject to certain conditions.

Obviously the airframe/engine combination must show the required reliablity but this is taken from the worldwide fleet so as long as other airlines have proved them together this approval can be carried forward to VS (if any of these rumours are true, of course!).

Where it becomes airline specific is in operations and maintenance. VS are a long haul airline so they are already a long way there. They would be required to draw up special ETOPS SOPS and training programmes. As long as they are approved by the CAA it is no problem.

The maintenance hurdle may be slightly harder. The airline applying for ETOPS must show that they have or can access the relevant engineering experience to maintain the airframe/engine combination and its ETOPS equipment.

For an airline like VS none of the above seem a problem.

All this can be found in CAP513 - Extended Range Twin Operations (ETOPS).

[veryEZYboy]

2dmoon

I believe the A343 and the A346 count as one rating. I seriously cannot be arsed to be trained on another aircraft if it isn't the A380. Where's the fun in that?

[scroggs]

Virgin A340 pilots fly both variants. The A330 could be flown by the same pilots on CCQ. All Virgin's cabin crew fly on all types. The A330's doors and safety equpment are identical to the A340, so there would be no problem there.

[HOVIS]

And in other places they don't. For example, BGI and ANU they use BA Engineering, they are qualified on the 747 and 777. A different contractor would have to be brought in if VS chose to bring in an Airbus, is that right?

Not any more they don't.:mad:

Virgin setting up their own eng at BGI.:ugh:

[glamourgirl!]

has anyone checked out the new corporate identity. much better!!

[QAR ASR]

The process of stripping the "four engines for long haul" has already begun. A number of 346's are already clear.

[scruggs]

VIR new livery (apparently).

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2862795/

Sorry if its been posted previously

eP

[glamourgirl!]

apparently order for 14 a330 due 2008 to be announced any day! possibly farnborogh air show.

I wonder what routes they will be used for?
possibly daily gla-mco 2008?
man-jfk
some new routes out of lgw.... Maldive, Sri Lanka, Tampa
Heathrow middle east?

[Denzil]

glamourgirl, can't believe you doubted me & then you mention it yourself:confused:

Daily GLA-MCO (sorry glamourgirl) not likely, how about 4 a week plus a LAS & throw in a BGI for good measure. Give Globespan something to worry about eh:)

As for routes, the Chicago & Toronto from LHR good on a A330, the list is endless.

[veryEZYboy]

2dmoon

OH DEAR LORD! I'm used to having crew rest on all flights, even a little Boston or JFK. I hope this thing has got a crew rest area otherwise...BE GONE!!!

[glamourgirl!]

do apologize denzil that was cheekie of me to doubt you and your info!

oh and it was gla mco ( orlando, not ord chicago )

[scroggs]

No, I don't! This (the Press release) seems to be a bit of a 'teaser', and may be just another bargaining tactic by Virgin (they've used similar tactics many times in the past) to get a better deal from Airbus. The mention of Virgin pushing for a more efficient, improved A346 is very interesting, and suggests that there is a possibility of options being converted if the requisite improvements can be made - and/or older aeroplanes either being exchanged or retrofitted.

It would seem that Virgin has persuaded Airbus that compensation for the cumulative A380 delays should take the form of alternative (subsidised?) aircraft, and it seems to be generally accepted that the A330 is the chosen alternative. As Denzil suggests (at least in part) above, such an aircraft would make sense for growing an operation from UK 'regional' airports (if you will accept that terminology for MAN and GLA!) to the East Coast, Middle East, and East or West Africa, but I don't see the A330 fitting into the LHR operation where slot constraints mean that the capacity of each slot must be maximised wherever possible - which was the logic for taking the A380 in the first place.

While there are a few sectors out of LHR for which Virgin are still using the A343 (same capacity as, but longer range than, the A333), most would happily fill a larger aircraft for much of the year - which reinforces VS's decision to lose the A343s over the near-ish future. So what would be the logic of the A330 at LHR? I don't see it, at least not in great numbers - slots for developing new routes out of LHR (which might justify the use of the A330 for a while) are ever-harder to come by. So, it seems to me, if VS are indeed looking at the A330 in addition to the A346 (or even replacing the last few orders), it's likely to be in order to enable development away from LHR. MAN and GLA must be favourite, but others may be on the cards too...

[MJMASON]

I hope operation are going well.

Air Jamaica are still giving bad service to their passengers. Today over 2 hour delay from Heathrow.
Hopefully all holiday makers will fly with Virgin to avoid disappointment especially for honeymoon

[sevenforeseven]

Hi All, just wondering that from all the rumours on the internet about large
A330 order from Virgin at the Farnborough Airshow, nothing has heppened as yet? Any news?

[Sunfish]

As reported by the Mirror.

"POLICE boarded a jumbo jet yesterday amid fears furious passengers would riot after being stuck in their seats for seven hours.

The 352 travellers were kept cooped inside Virgin Atlantic Flight 63 on the ground after a technical problem. Take-off was finally aborted as the Boeing 747 taxied up the runway with a car driving alongside frantically signalling that the jet had an over-inflated tyre."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17624069%26method=full%26siteid=94762%26headline =trapped-on-flight-63--name_page.html

[vapilot2004]

25 August 2006
EXCLUSIVE: TRAPPED ON FLIGHT 63
By Vanessa Allen
POLICE boarded a jumbo jet yesterday amid fears furious passengers would riot after being stuck in their seats for seven hours.

The 352 travellers were kept cooped inside Virgin Atlantic Flight 63 on the ground after a technical problem.

Take-off was finally aborted as the Boeing 747 taxied up the runway with a car driving alongside frantically signalling that the jet had an over-inflated tyre.

Passenger Philip Robinson said: "You could feel the plane going bump, bump. God knows what could have happened if it had tried to take off.

"When we got back to the terminal we still couldn't leave. We were told police were coming on in case we started a riot."

Another passenger Peter Sidebottom, 57, added: "Tensions were rising and one woman was abusing the staff. Another passenger said if she didn't shut up she'd punch her teeth in."

The flight was due to leave Gatwick for Havana at 9.30am. Some passengers boarded at 8.45 and all boarding was finished by 10. An engineer was still working on one engine.

At 11, the crew announced a technical problem would be fixed in 15 minutes. The plane taxied but then stopped. Passengers were told the crew were waiting for a spare part.

At 1pm, the captain said the spare part had arrived. At 2.45 passengers were told that if the part could not be replaced by 3.30 the crew would exceed their legal operating hours.

At 3.25, the plane taxied again towards the runway, ready for take-off. Then air traffic control spotted the misshapen tyre.

The Boeing was taken back to the terminal and police were called over fears the passengers, who included a young couple on a £5,000 honeymoon, could erupt in fury.

They were not allowed off the flight until 4.30pm, when they were told it was cancelled.

Businessman Mr Robinson, 53, of Maidenhead, Berks, said: "It was appalling. No one apologised or knew what was happening.

"Because of security we couldn't take drinks on board and were only given two glasses of water. No one even had any food."

The flight is re-scheduled for today. All passengers were offered hotel accommodation.

Virgin Atlantic said: "This was a unique set of circumstances and we'd like to apologise for any inconvenience caused."


Police confirmed officers boarded the plane but said no arrests were made.



MISTAKES ON A PLANE
Bungles that delayed flight for seven hours

8.45am Passengers begin boarding flight VS63 from Gatwick to Havana
9.30am Flight due to depart
10.00am Passengers finish boarding. Doors closed
11.00am Crew announce there is a technical problem which will take 15 minutes
11.30am Passengers told they are waiting for a spare part
1.30pm Crew announce the spare part has arrived. Take-off "soon"
2.45pm Passengers told inflight meals may have to be replaced. If not cleared for take-off by 3.30pm crew won't be able to fly
3.25pm Plane begins to taxi for take-off
3.35pm Take-off stopped
3.45pm Captain says plane has a misshapen tyre and will have to go back to the terminal
4pm Flight cancelled. Police board plane amid fears of rioting
4.30pm Passengers are allowed off but told they must wait for their luggage


Not a fun day at all.

At 11, the crew announced a technical problem would be fixed in 15 minutes.

:E

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

What caught my eye in one report was this: "Then air traffic control spotted the over-inflated tyre." Just how does ATC spot an over-inflated tyre??

[WHBM]

Apart from the journalistic nonsenses :rolleyes: there are a few items that catch the eye :

"Because of security we couldn't take drinks on board and were only given two glasses of water. No one even had any food."

Yes, a new feature of travel. You can't take in anything to drink, and we won't give you anything meaningful either. I wonder what the Virgin SOP is for passenger service in these circumstances. You start to realise why the pax began to get uppity.

I trust SRB is having one or two words in one or two ears this morning.

[Kalium Chloride]

Paying attention to minor errors (who cares whether ATC or a passing magpie spotted the tyre?) and losing sight of the bigger picture is how airlines end up leaving fare-paying customers locked up in an aluminium tube for seven hours. I want to know how much of that seven-hour period had to go by before somebody finally started thinking that - perhaps, just perhaps - it should start looking after those customers.

If a restaurant let even 30 minutes go by without attending to you after you arrived, you'd get up and walk. And the restaurant would learn, pretty quickly, to get its act together and look after its clients.

I'm surprised there wasn't a mutiny a lot earlier. I guess it was a bunch of Brits not wanting to kick up a fuss, when they should have been demanding to be let out.

[BOAC]

In defence of Virgin, it is usual to try and get some extra drinks at least loaded on board during delays like this, BUT it is often difficult to arrange if the 'tech delay' is not definite. On this one the information to the flight deck seemed to 'wander' around a bit! As for getting the 'extra' drinks or even food aboard, one is at the mercy of the catering supplier's stocks at the airport, plus the difficulties THEY will have getting extra stocks in, particularly in this present alert state.

Very uncomfortable for all.

[Realistic Flier]

Virgin's Upper Class Suite has of late, started to look rather tatty with scuffed seat covers and pretty basic and untidy repairs to some tables/screens. The attendants service remains as good as ever, relaxed but very efficient.

I am now up to three emails to Virgins Customer Services pointing out my dissapointment on the Suites standard, but no replies are forthcoming!!!

Any ideas/email address's that may bring a response off Virgin???

[WHBM]

By the sound of the 2 hour delay between being advised they were awaiting parts and the parts actually arriving, I am guessing they might have had to come by road from Heathrow, and then doubtless go through the airside "security" queue.

Do BAA have any facility there for urgent AOG consignments to be brought through with priority ?

Regarding refreshments being "too difficult" to organise, I have to say if at my company anyone didn't give a large number of guests any refreshments for seven hours because they found it was all too difficult, they wouldn't last the afternoon without being replaced.

[BOAC]

I have to say if at my company anyone didn't give a large number of guests any refreshments for seven hours because they found it was all too difficult, they wouldn't last the afternoon without being replaced.- quite. However, until you have sat in a cockpit trying to negotiate more stuff and then wait for it ?to arrive? with the accountants listening in to every demand..........................:mad:

[Kalium Chloride]

I can appreciate that it's not easy for the crew either - and to be fair, Virgin does generally pay a lot of attention to customer comfort - but at some point, someone has to make the decision to let people off the aircraft.

If your local restaurant, bank or shop doesn't get its act together, you can walk out when you please.

When you're belted into an aircraft seat, with doors to automatic, that option disappears - and then the tired old "security" card gets played to shut you up if, quite understandably, you dare start expressing any form of dissatisfaction.

What was wrong with asking for a gate, or at least a set of steps, parking the jet and then using a bit of common sense to get people off and into a more comfortable area - so that they could then at least feed themselves (since the airline couldn't feed them), walk around, lie down, or decide (as I'd have been inclined) to tell the airline to stick it, get a refund, and fly with someone else.

Seven hours - it beggars belief. Someone needs a jobsworth award.

[tspark]

I know there's commom cockpit and all that, but in reality do you (subject to 'differences' course) switch between -300 and -600 fleets or do you stick with the one fleet?

[scruggs]

I PM'd Scroggs about this. He told me VIR A340 pilots fly both types.

[aeroground]

the handling of the delay was disgusting in all forms, let us see if Sir RB responds to any letters, his customer service people have a tendancy to not bother or palm you off. The return last thursday was not much better in respect to service only minimal delay

[bne019]

Any word of VS expansion in the Australian market?

I'd personally love to see VS fly to Brisbane. DJ could offer connections to Mackay, Townsville, Rocky, Cairns etc.

Routes I'd love to see:
MAN-PEK/PVG/BOM-BNE
LHR-PEK/PVG/BOM-BNENot sure whether they'd be able to fly via China or India to BNE... China is set to become Queensland biggest source of tourists soon, but there are no Chinese carriers flying from China to BNE currently... Love it if VS could offer such a flight (although, would it be given the rights?).

VS into MEL would be nice too, but would rather seem them in BNE :ok:

Cheers

[Gpik]

Hey, Melbourne is on the Virgin wish list at the moment, not sure if it would be a long or short term plan. The more Oz routes the better I say!

[scruggs]

I've just read of another forum, and this is only a rumour by the way, that Virgins next A346 will be painted in the new livery.

Anyone at VS care to confirm, deny, or shoot me down for posting the rumour? :ok:

Cheers,
eP

[glamourgirl!]

gv-gal B747-400 will be in new colours in october. She has just recently changed back names from birthday girl to lady penelope.

[scruggs]

Cheers for the info :ok:

[jethro15]

gv-gal B747-400 will be in new colours in october. She has just recently changed back names from birthday girl to lady penelope.
I think you mean G-VFAB (G-VGAL is Jersey Girl)

jethro
UK and Ireland Airline Fleet Listings
http://www.jethros.i12.com

[scruggs]

I had thought the Birthday Girl would be the first of the 744's to get the new livery.

Cheers.

[scruggs]

http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?regsearch=G-VRED&view=true

I've answered my own question :ok:

Looks good!

[brian_dromey]

And that livery is new how exactly? Apart from the deletion of the blue stripe and a curvier red it looks the same. Oh ya the font is a LITTLE bit different as well. Of course airlines should freshen up their image from time to time, but VS seems to do it a lot, and not change it much, I know Virgin is a strong brand, but is the expense really worth it? Why bother?

Passengers will never notice. Passengers only noticed the new BA colours because of the controversy "world images" caused. Personally I tought they were a nice idea....

[scruggs]

Not being funny mate, but if it's different from the old livery and it's not and exact copy of a previous livery, then it's new. I was only pointing it out.

It looks to me like they're bringing it in line with the Virgin America livery.

[Skipness One Echo]

Now now, it's little things like this that give graphic designers wet dreams.
"oooh let's change the font ever so very slightly.."
The odd thing is they will take up to five years to repaint the fleet and in the meantime it becomes a right old mixed bag as people notice the plane their about to board looks so last year all of a sudden.

If it's as nice as G-VFAB the Birthday Girl in the sun it will be cool. But the purple border so worked on the fin for me.
Anyone have a photo of Virgin Nigeria in the new colours?
And are the A340s in Africa remaining on the UK register and why?

[22/04]

New livery looks cleaner-like it. Not an expert but it may be easier to keep these aerolpanes on the UK register and would certainly build customer confidence. (I would rather be on a UK reg aeroplane than a Nigerian one given track record, although I know the Nigerian govt. are trying to address things).

In a different world, we sold a Super Cub in Eire recently but the owner keeps it onthe UK reg as it's maintained in N.Ireland.