Bell 214 (Archive)

[Lu Zuckerman]

I would like to know how the 214 Bs compare to the original 214. I was involved with the introduction of the 214 into service with the Imperial Iranian Army Aviation back in 1975-76. The original 214 was a dog and a high consumer of maintenance man-hours. Some of the problems were poor build quality where hundreds of Cherry type rivets would lose the pull pin and they would drop down into an inaccessible area around the cockpit. Another problem was that the blades were not grounded to the airframe with the grounding being prevented by the elastomeric teeter bearing. This cause a build up of a high static charge and it effected the standby magnetic compasses rendering then useless as an alternate compass. The static charge also effected the operation of the VOR.

The rotorheads and blades were very difficult to static balance using a Marvel balancer. Once balanced the rotor blade assemblies were installed and then dynamically balanced using a Chadwick-Helmuth system, which could not always bring the rotor system into balance without exceeding the limits of balance weights. Many of the rotor systems had to be disassembled and parts exchanged to make an assembly that could be balanced.

Having a Noda Matic suspension system the transmission moved in relation to the fixed engine. This movement caused the short shaft couplings to move in and out in relation to the engine and the transmission. This movement forced grease out of the coupling. This grease would plate out on the engine inlet bell and sand would build up on the grease. This film of sand and other small debris caused a disruption of the airflow and the engine would suffer a compressor stall. This prompted frequent inspections of the driveline and the engine as well as on the airframe. This resulted in the change-out of many parts. The problem was solved locally by very frequent engine washes.

Surprising, as this might seem the 214 was not adequately tested prior to the introduction into service. The helicopter was billed as a heavy lifter but the greatest weight it ever carried in service was a pilot and two or three students. I spent 30 days with the 214 observing and documenting the maintenance of the 214s at our base. The maintenance man-hours per flight hour varied between 60-70. I prepared a report stating the high MMH-FH and my boss altered the report to state that there were 13-16 MMH-FH. This report was forwarded to Bell and they entered it into their brochures and they sent them to the oil companies.

Many 214s were purchased by the oil companies and pressed into service in Central and South America. On these assignments the 214s were operated at Max AUW and things started to happen. There were structural problems, they had the compressor stalls and the rotorheads never exceed 500 hours and they had to be removed and some scrapped.

I had several rides in the 214s after they passed the Chadwick-Helmuth balancing and I have to say it was the smoothest ride I ever had in a helicopter. During the flight I looked at the movement of the transmission through an inspection port and it scared the hell out of me.

My question is how is the 214 B by comparison?

:confused:

[Lu Zuckerman]

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Lu Zuckerman]

If there are, please respond

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Captain Lai Hai]

Hey Lu

They're probably all dead with the track record the 214B has.

[redandwhite]

Lu,

I flew the 214B from 78 to 86 in the Sultan of Oman's Air Force.

We suffered the same compressor stall problem, which we 'solved' by an engine wash/bleed band setting check, every day. This still didn't prevent a stall leading to a T/R drive shaft snapping as one of our guys was lifting a sling load. The only saving grace was the inertia in the M/R system allowed him to pickle the load, close the throttle and move a few yards before landing without further mishap!!:eek:

We also suffered from 'Nodal Beam Bounce', occasionally the airframe underwent an 'anti-harmonic' with the beam! That was interesting too!:confused:

As far as MMH/Fh ratio, ours was high, in fact, at one stage we were known as the 'Static Display Team', with a motto of 'The Sky Shall Not Have Them':D

Still, I found it a good beast, and once you'd spent a few days balancing the system, it was the smoothest heli by far.

Maybe now you should be asking if Bell got it right with the 214ST??:confused:

[Buitenzorg]

Lu,

I've never flown a 214, but several friends who have told me the only difference between a 214 and a 214B is a limitation change to a max gross weight of 12,500 lbs. in the case of the 214B. This to avoid the requirement for a type rating and a two-man crew. No mechanical difference between the two types.

If this is duff info, I've been had by the best!

[Thumper2]

The difference between the B and B1 is only the data plate, this was done for CDN operators for the aboved mentioned licensing requirements. The Difference between the original A's are considerably different from the B's. Starting up top with metal blades vers fiberglass on the B's thus increasing the gross internal weight limits. There have been many other mods that help the performance and maintenance. The B's are a great machine, yes they to require the odd band ajustment pending on Alt & temp variations on the job, but not many at all. The overhauls ie GP wheel shimming is critical for both fuel burn and efficiency ....... this can cause problems during power changes ie. popping. With 3000 hrs on the B's and 8 other endorsements she is still my favorite and probably will be till the day I TX. Your aircrew is what makes or BREAKS this aircraft, cowboys can hurt her fast!!

[helmet fire]

I am interested in the B214 ST, and would love to hear some stories. Why are there so few of them now? Why are they disappearing from offshore contracts? Were they any good? How about power, maintainability, reliability, supportability, etc?
Were they all SPIFR? I did see a pic on the rotorheads at work thread with one sitting next to a bucket on the fires....are they good platforms for this work? How do they compare to the 214B/...and lots more questions: I am interested in all aspects of the aircraft,
thanks, hf.

[Gomer Pylot]

Bell reportedly destroyed the jigs, so they can't build any more. None were ever SPIFR, AFAIK. The FARs don't allow flying something that size single pilot, even VFR, in commercial ops. Maybe someone has overseas. They're a maintenance nightmare, and it takes at least one spare to keep one working full time. They're all getting old, and parts are hard to come by. Newer aircraft are faster and more reliable. Both Air Log and PHI still have a few flying offshore, but I don't know how long that will last. PHI now has the S92, and reportedly orders for more, and this will likely replace the few 214s left in service there.

The 214ST is the ultimate UH1 stretch. From what I hear, it was never meant to be a commercial model, just a one-off in a few numbers for Iran, but more were built and sold before Bell discovered the error of its ways. I doubt they ever made any money from them in the long run, because of support costs.

[loachboy]

I love them too........Beasty Machinery.

I remeber a pilot I friend when I was a child use to fly them for Lloyd Helicopters (CHC). And use to enjoy Rotor flapping them over his mates houses.

[Lu Zuckerman]

To: Gomer Pylot

The 214ST is the ultimate UH1 stretch. From what I hear, it was never meant to be a commercial model, just a one-off in a few numbers for Iran, but more were built and sold before Bell discovered the error of its ways. I doubt they ever made any money from them in the long run, because of support costs.

I monitored the introduction of the 214 into service. They were designed and produced for the Imperial Iranian Army Aviation. They were rushed into production and were inadequately tested by both Bell and the US Army. As indicated in one of the previous posts they were a maintenance nightmare. In the month that I was involved in their introduction I calculated that there were over 70 Maintenance Man-Hours per flight hour. On one helicopter it took over four days to static balance a rotor system. We ended up swapping both blades and a rotorhead to get the rotor system in balance and even then we used more balances washers than allowed by the Maintenance manual to achieve balance.

The fuselages were poorly assembled and most of the blind cherry rivets lost the center pin resulting in opening the skins to get the pins and then we had to reinstall new rivets.

The rotorhead had no means of bleeding the static charge from the blades and as a result the magnetic field around the rotor system resulted in magnetizing the main mast which caused spark erosion on the internal gears and bearings. It also effected the standby compasses and the VOR system.

I issued my report outlining the problems including the 70+ MMH/FH and the director of product support changed the figure to 13-MMH/FH and Bell used this figure in their sales brochures resulting in several 214s being sold to oil companies. These 214s were pressed into service in Central and South America.

In service in Iran the 214s were mainly used to train Iranian pilots and as such only carried two or three students and a pilot. They were never operated at max gross weight nor did Bell test them at max gross weight. The oil companies did operate them at max gross weight and they had to replace the rotorheads at several hundred hours and the transmissions didn’t fair much better. They also had a lot of structural problems including loss of rivets.

The transmission was supported on a Noda Matic ™ suspension system, which permitted the transmission to move up and down in relation to the fixed engine. The short shaft moved in and out with the movement of the transmission and it turned into a grease pump. The grease that was extruded from the couplings plated out on the engine inlet bell. The grease attracted dirt and small debris and caused a disruption in the airflow into the engine resulting in compressor stalls. Each time a compressor stall was reported a full structural inspection was performed and in many instances major dynamic components were changed.



The overall build quality sucked.

The term DOG comes to mind.


:E :E

[Phoenix Rising]

HF - Just looked up on Helicas and here is what it says as to who has what.

Air Logistics - 4

Bell Helicopter - 1

Bristow UK - 1

CHC Heli Service Norway - 1

Global Rotors Inc - 1

Iraqi Air Force - 43

Ken Guthrie - 1

Kensetsu Sho (Japan) - 1

North Slope Borough SAR - 2

Oman Police Air Wing - 4

Peruvian Air Force - 1

PHI - 4

Privatair (Saudi Arabia) - 2

Royal Brunei Air Force - 1

Royal Thai Navy - 6

Saudi Aramco - 4

US Leaseco - 2

Unknown (Peru) - 1

Unknown (Korea) - 1

Venezulean Air Force - 1


Hope that helps. Have heaps of photos of the Oman Police 214STs if you want them. Unfortunately I dont have any photos of crewies holding up "Show Us Your Tits" in the doorway.

:E

[Thud_and_Blunder]

The Royal Brunei Air Force lone example was bought by the Sultan for his father, who'd abdicated to let the 29th member of the dynasty accede. I believe the old boy popped his clogs before the aircraft was actually delivered, though...

It was a total hangar queen for most of my 3 years there, so much so that the RBAirF had to bring Bell over to re-train the pilots as they'd become completely uncurrent. The Bell/ Flight Safety (I forget which...) engineer had plenty of interesting pre-1991 Iraq stories to tell.

[Giovanni Cento Nove]

Memories? Yeah about nearly twenty years ago - Bell 214 ST Problems (http://avsaf.org/reports/Canadian_reports/1985.10.23_OkanaganHelicoptersLtd_Bell214ST.pdf)

None of it was ever conclusive yet you may find it interesting.

[MD900 Explorer]

http://www.peisestova.com/raija/heli-05.jpg

http://www.peisestova.com/raija/heli-07.jpg

The Norwegian one is the a Bell 214ST and works SAR off of Statfjord B in the North Sea.

These photo's were taking last summer when it dropped a patient in from Heidrun, who had fallen down a shaft and was on its way back to the Northsea. I knew the pilots and was at the Air Ambulance base in Bergen, when it was going back and i got a ride and hence the phots. It was being sponsored by Statoil and being operated by CHC Helikopter Service A/S.


MD :ok:

[Phoenix Rising]

HF - The Oman 214STs are being replaced with AB139s in 06 I think, might be earlier so you could buy a couple for the fire season in OZ :)



:E

[helmet fire]

Thanks guys. Very Interesting. I guess they will be cheap comming from Oman like that Pheonix - and thanks for the helicas info: didnt know that sort of info was available.Cheers.

Anyone know how do they compare to the 214B for lifting/speed/range?


Giovanni, I cannot get your link to work.

[Giovanni Cento Nove]

HF

Link should work now. For info it is a link to avsaf.org and is a report on 2 ST's which were lost while being operated by Okanagan back in '85. The second one was lost while testing to figure out what happened to the first one. Pretty tragic circumstances and as I said previously, not entirely conclusive.

A Kiwi outfit operated one on logging for a while but possibly not that successful and they did have a B prior so there are possibly guys around who could tell you the difference. PR aka Ned should have some contacts - I left there about 20 years ago.

[Phoenix Rising]

HF - The one that was in NZ was based out of Taihape and operated by Alan Shannon, Rego was ZK-HKW. Wasnt around for that long and not sure where it went, probably stateside again. From what I remember Simon Green, who was killed in the crash of Wanganui Aero Works Bell 205 was the pilot back then.

Will see if I can dig up any photos of them.

:E

[Sir HC]

Lu, or anyone else for that matter, Do the 214B's suffer any of the problems that you say the ST did? There seems to be a few operating around the world. Please excuse me if this has been covered before.

[Phoenix Rising]

Hey HF - Lets highjack the thread and make it a 214 thread, not just the ST :ok: :ok:

Here is a listing from Helicas of the 214Bs that are out there.

Black Tusk (Canada) - 2
Central Copters (USA) - 1 (Crashed recently)
East West Transportation (Canada) - 1
Heli Korea - 4
Helimax Aviation - 2
Helitrans Norway - 2
Hongik Air Service (Korea) - 2
Iranian Government - 3
McDermott Aviation - 3
Paramount Helicopters USA - 1
Payam Aviation Iran - 1
Philippine Air Force - 1
SAF Helicopters FRANCE - 1
Tongil Air Systems KOREA - 1
Transwest Helicopters CANADA - 3
UAE Air Force - 4
Unknown KOREA - 3
Ventura County Sheriff - 1


:E

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Speechless Two:

Fascinated to read:

Basically the collective system fractured with a hell of a bang at a height of 4000 ft. and it stabilised itself at a low rate of descent at best climb speed with a disconcerting floppy collective and was successfully ditched using only the cyclic.

...as I believe something very, very similar happened in the mid-80s to one of the Royal Oman Police Air Wing aircraft (also landed safely!). Does anyone have any further details?

[helmet fire]

PR: want to change to ST & B models as requested - good suggestion - but how? Cannot seem to find an option to edit topic, though I seem to remember others achieving same. Anybody? Bueler?

How similar are the ST & B models? - I guess Lu will know this one. Same trannie, blades, tail etc, or are they significantly different Lu?

Giovanni: link works beaut now, thanks.
Thud: if you check that link, the accident report refers to the Omani failure.



Thread title changed.

Heliport

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Helmet fire:

Thankyou for the info - I hadn't realised it happened while I was still in Oman. I do remember the 214ST coming out on its original sales-team visit, when we were all given a cabbie in-between rehearsals for one of the National Day flypasts. Have a snapshot somewhere at home of me at the controls, with the cleanest-looking pair of (new) flying gloves I was ever issued. It was the first new aircraft I'd ever sat in - pleasant change from the usual ageing cockpit to which I'd been used.

The ROPAW fellas were a good bunch, always happy to share their fuddle at the desert-patrol camps we'd jointly operate from time to time.

[Katfish]

I was fortunate to fly several thousand hours in the ST on Offshore and VVIP work as both line pilot and TRE/IRE. I thought it was a great helicopter. It was faster, had better range, and was more economical than the 332L. It was also more reliable than the 332L, as Bristows discovered. It had a great in flight blade tracking device whereby the pilot could adjust the length of one pitch rod in flight to achieve the lowest vibration level. They are stil being used in Saudi for King Fahd (2), and the Royal Oman police had 6 when I was there (now 4).
Its drawback was a small boot, and the centre passengers were a fair way from the doors and a view. We carried 18 pax on sectors under 100 nm.
It had a great liferaft deployment system, where the pilot could release the liferaft in the roof, which fell down outside the doors, and automatically inflated.
It had 2 big. low stressed cool running GE 700 engines. Single engine performance was good for the late 80's & 90's, but not Cat A.
It had a Vne in auto of 100 kts, which made life interesting when cruising at 130 kts, and entering auto at that speed was dangerous. I think it was a combination of C of G, sudden change of airflow on the rear stabiliser, and maybe some retreating blade stall, but it was almost uncontrollable above auto Vne. I think this may have caused the 2 fatal crashes Evergreen had in the late 80's.
It was one of Bell's big mistakes in not doing some R & D. and developing it further (4 blades etc).
With only 2 barn door size blades rotating fairly slowly, the autopilot had to work hard. At altitudes above 8000 ft, we often had either a dutch roll or an undamped fugoid.
It was always dual pilot IFR due to the weight category, but had all the equipment for and was certainly capable of SPIFR.
I throughly enjoyed my time on it.
And yes, we were a good bunch of fellas in the desert thud & blunder.
Hope this helps.
katfish

[Lu Zuckerman]

To: helmet fire

How similar are the ST & B models? - I guess Lu will know this one. Same trannie, blades, tail etc, or are they significantly different Lu?

I never had any experience on the ST or other later models. I spent one solid month monitoring the maintenance on both the 214 and the AH-1J. After that I returned to the home office and managed the maintenance on all of the helicopters in the IIA Aviation program. I remained on the program for about another year and the MMH/FH never improved. (On either aircraft).

Note: If you ever want to question why you fly helicopters there is a small inspection panel on the 214 rear cabin wall that allows you to see the transmission. Observe the trannie in flight. The trannie will be jumping up and down (2" or so). This provides the smooth ride on the 214 but it is beating the hell out of the dynamic system.

Based on my experience on the job I found that on even the latest designs (Bell) they used parts from other designs. If the part on the original design had certain faults those same parts would exhibit the same faults on the new application. So I can only assume from that the 214 parts that were used on the 214-ST and the B models had the same problems. The worst of which was the magnetization of the mast. If you fly any Bell product with either an elastomeric teeter bearing or a soft in-plane rotor system have your LAME/A&P use a gaussimiter to check the level of magnetization on the mast. Hold the instrument near the Jesus Nut. Then, check the overhaul manual for the level of magnetization that is acceptable after a part has passed through a Magna Flux ™ machine.


:E :E

[helmet fire]

Thanks guys enjoyed the reading.

Seems to be a bit of polarity in opinion - some say it is a disaster, some say it is fine. I am intrigued in the comment that it is cheaper and more reliable than the 332L. I am still wondering why it is disappearing - is the two bladed system such a problem?

Also does any one know if it is the same blade and SCAS systems as the 214B?
Has anyone out there done external lifting with one? And the fire fighting one in "rotorheads at work", anyone out there flown one on the fires?

[excrewingbod]

helmet fire,

My father has spent the past 19 years or so, working on 214STs from the N Sea to the Middle East and never stops raving on about them. The only grumble he seems to have is the availability of spares, especially engines.

Speechless Two,

My father has a soft spot for 'FN' as he was one of the individuals who spent several weeks at LGW stripping it down and rebuilding it, after the ditching incident in May 1986.

[Phoenix Rising]

Some photos I shot of Black Tusks 214B logging near Squamish, BC.

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT001.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT002.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT003.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT004.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT005.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT006.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT007.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT008.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT009.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT010.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT011.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT012.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT013.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT014.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT015.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT016.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT017.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT018.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT019.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/BT020.jpg

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Phoenix,

Lovely photos that tell the story very well. I have to ask - what's the fella in photo BT017 (the one with the 206 in the background) doing with that ladder under the rotor disc?

[wishtobflying]

Here´s a few of the McDermott´s 214:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mlearley/Carefultouchdown.jpg

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mlearley/Nice.jpg

[imabell]

me


http://www.bluetonguehelicopters.com.au/pprune/2142.jpg


:ok: :}

[Blackhawk9]

The 214 ST is my second favorite Helo after the Blackhawk and nothing compares to them, worked on ST's for about 6 years on and off, they are a beast, will hover and fly away on one engine at 35oC oat at gross weight 17500lbs and i've seen it done , try and do that in a S Puma , thats why the Saudi royal flight still use them, they will fly further, faster using less fuel,with the same payload as a S Puma, but they do have there problems the elec system is a nightmare , 2 batteries and approx 40 relays to start an engine! but the engines are just about indestructable the CT7 is oncondition o/haul and bristows had one that stayed in an airframe about 6000 hrs , the Makila in an L2 SuperPuma is lucky to make o/haul at 2500hrs, I worked on the ST in Australia and Europe and the 214B in europe and the mid east the Iranian military still have over 150 214 A/C models still in use , i saw quite alot of them flying when i was in Iran last year. I've worked on Blackhawks ,214ST's , S61's and Super Pumas and like them in that order.

[helmet fire]

Balckhawk9: So they are not quite the hangar queen that people believe? Is the CT7 of the ST a variant of the GE T700 in the Black Hawk?

[Phoenix Rising]

Thud - Might be an optical illusion as they were using it to check over the tailrotor. Will have a look at some of the others I have and make sure he wasnt carrying it under the disk.

By the way love the paint scheme on your EC135s.

:E

[Blackhawk9]

Helmet fire, the CT7-2A in the ST is the same engine as in the UH 60-L exept for start fuel nozzles , shrouded fuel lines for civil cert. and elec starters, the T-700 with air starters spin up quicker than the CT7 and don't need the start fuel nozzles.
The T700/CT7 series is fitted in UH60,SH60, AH64,EH101,AH1 W/Z,SH2G,NH90,214ST,UH1 Y, and fitted to some 205's etc .it is the most fitted engine in Helicopters in the world after Allison 250's and russian stuff.
I've worked on Arriel,Allison 250,PT6 twin pac, T53, T55, CT58, Turmo,Makila, and CT7/T700 and the CT7/T700 is by far miles ahead of the others, the only one close is the new RRTM 322, in the NH90,EH101 and UK AH64's.

[helmet fire]

Wow, thanks.
Is the electric started a plus or a minus, and does it remove the need for an APU - which I would imagine is a massive plus in itself?

[ReToRqUe]

Thud_and_Blunder..... the machine was just shutting down for noon maintenance... so we were just getting ready to look it over ... thats why the ladder was out ;) (im the 2nd person in that picture)

[Blackhawk9]

Helmet fire, the electric start is a big pain in the arse on the ST ,2xbloody heavy batteries at approx 50 kg ea ,a large elec starter on each eng, which is only a starter and the elec nightmare with 40 + relays to start, you only get three attempts to start an ST ,if you stuff it up then your stuck as the batteries give 40 volt during start and ext power is only 28 so you are just about guaranteed a long hot start on the first eng!!
APU's are far suppiror, you have full AC power ,Hyd power, and below 25oC you can do a dual engine start , and the whole APU system only weighs slightly more in a Blackhawk than the elec start system in a ST, it also allows your Helo to be self sufficient , with minimal GSE.

[Phoenix Rising]

Blackhawk9 - Check your PMs.

:E

[Thud_and_Blunder]

ReToRqUe,

Thanks for that - just idle curiosity. I should've realised the answer after looking at the last picture. Does the extra 6' of altitude on the ladder keep you out of the no-see-um's/ meat-eating mosquitos threat band?

Phoenix,

Hmm - if you can find someone to explain a sand-and-sea "camouflage" scheme on a police heli, please let me know! We eagerly await the paint scheme on the new AS365N3s arriving next year; wonder what surprises they'll bring?

[ab139heli]

Dear ppruners,


Asking if PHI and AIR LOGESTICS still flying the 214st and what are there contacts?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[Hippolite]

PHI Director of Operations is Carlin Craig

[email protected]

The Chief Pilot is Mike Hurst

[email protected]

The Director of Marketing who deals with AC sales is Peter Sorenson [email protected]

They are still flying the 214 STs for Shell, I believe. PHI has 4 of them. Airlog has probably 2 or 3 but I am not sure who they are working for or if they are flying.

HH

[Gomer Pylot]

Air Log is still flying 214STs in the Gulf. Their website is here. (http://www.olog.com/page4.php) They say they have 6 in their fleet.

[Phoenix Rising]

AB139Heli - Got your PM and will respond. Good to see you here and make sure you keep that new South African under a watchful eye ;)

Will post a few pics from my visit there on the Rotorheads at work thread so keep an eye out in the next couple of days. Looking forward to coming back when the new toys arrive :ok: :ok:

Cheers

Ned