VH Pacific Blue

[BundyBlack]

From the 24th of this month you will see VH registered Pacific Blue liveried aircraft flying across the Tasman, as long as the PB Austalian AOC gets the go ahead in time.
How long will it take for the bean counters in BNE to see that the cheap PB workforce could mean big $ for VB if used in domestic Oz operations?
The first version of the PB AOC allows for VH tails to be used on PB routes only, 1 a/c at a time and for a limited time only. How long do you think that will last?
Wake up VB pilots!
:suspect:

[jack red]

Are you seriously implying that EnZed pilots would spend each month in Oz, away from home for extended periods of time to fly the domestic routes of VB. Have another Bundy buddy..:=

[BundyBlack]

At this stage the PB AOC is just to fly the Tasman. Other ports may follow. If PB/VB saw fit to apply for additional ports and routes, the PB pilots may be rostered to fly domestic sectors in Oz as part of their normal rotations. There is no need for them to spend a month in Oz as part of this scenario. At present, there is already a six day trip on the PB roster. The phrase "white anting" comes to mind. :(

[qantas2006]

Just remember it's just not the pilots it's cabin crew as well........... doing the Aust Ops
and wonder what crew will be doing the Usa routes Aust Vs NZ let us just see

[WalterMitty]

ever heard of basings?

[relax737]

The kiwi pilots will just move to Australia. No problem there.

There are enough Ozzies flying for Jetconnect so why shouldn't they have reciprocal rights.

[dirty deeds]

This is all geared towards the PB staff and airline doing the international long haul stuff to the America's and beyond. The last Australian Aviation said so and the company won't promise anything to the VB staff regarding this international flying. So everyone at VB, bend over and touch your toes, BOHICA,
Bend
Over
Here
It
Comes
Again!

[relax737]

very clever dirty deeds.

Unfortunately we are seeing industrial relations 2006 style.

[the_last_viirgin]

Easy solution guys.

Incorporate PB into the VB operation. I believe this has been mentioned but has not gone very far because of complaints about the 30 odd PB commanders that would be incorporated into VB as Captains.


Keep in mind what has happened to the guys at Q...... after they originally turned their backs on the Impulse crews (Jetstar).

Don't let management play you off against each other.


Happy Landings :ok: :ok: :ok:

[dirty deeds]

the_last_viirgin,
Very good idea and very forward thinking, this is what is required from a pilot group these days, but the problem here is that the powers that be will never intergrate the two organisations for the very reason I stated in my original post, they want to keep it separate (as I would if I was a manager), so you get two pilot groups bidding themselves down till the conditions are so S@#T that who cares who does the flying! Imagine if they said to all the PB guys tomorrow, you can do the USA etc for this price or we might have to shut down the PB operation and get VB to do it, and then say to the VB guys, if you don't do the USA etc for this price, PB will then have to start doing some domestic flying in Australia to make their operation profitable. And the worm keeps turing. PB will never be intergrated into VB for the reasons stated above, it reduces VB's managment leverage. But what do I know, I am just a simple line driver.
BOHICA.

[rescue 1]

...the powers that be will never integrate the two organizations
Pilots are constantly running conspiracy lines about Management. Management don't need to derive any industrial strategies at all - the employees work it out for them!!

The last virgin summed it up nicely "...complaints about the 30 odd PB commanders that would be incorporated into VB as Captains."

So it would seem that "the powers that be" are in fact FO's not seeing the forrest for the trees...

[dirty deeds]

Rescue 1,
The powers that be are not the FO's nor any pilot group. Do you really think management really care about your command or any others. They could not care less. This is not a conspiracy theory my friend, this is actually happening. Why would PB want an Australian AOC, (except stating the obvious, to fly VH registered A/C), but to operate either domestic operations or international to the USA etc. It makes sence because the work force are a cheaper entity. This has nothing to do with commands, this has nothing to do with FO's complaining. If the company wanted to intergrate the two entities for reasons XYZ, they would, and would'nt even care about the FO's, why would they, if it was your business and by merging the two made you say, $50 million, would you give a S#$T about some FO's command. I think not. I think you missed my point.

[rescue 1]

I understand your point dirty, I think you missed mine.

[Chocks Away]

Well said Rescue.
The VB drivers making the noise appear to be their own worst enemy.
They show no understanding of the difference between the huge Domestic VB operation and network, alongside the International ETOP operations of PB... two very different sections of the network, only on the same aircraft and brand.

[dirty deeds]

No understanding of the two operations? Thats very funny! We understand the operation well, especially when we maintain our ETOPS recency in the A/C and the sim. Its just water below you as apposed to land, and a crossfeed valve that needs to be checked near the end of the flight. Wake up guys, this banter is not about understanding operations, its about economics and which operation can do the job for the cheapest price. PB will fly to the USA and beyond. Reason being, staff are cheaper and the whole operation is cheaper. End of story. PB guys, start looking at real estate prices in Sydney, and look at what your salary will get you there!

[Chocks Away]

That's funny... shows your level of understanding then, when VB DON"T HAVE ETOPS approval... it was lost some time ago due maintenance records.
That's why you track via Forrest, going to Perth!
Its just water below you as apposed to land,:ugh: :=
There's alot more that goes into it pal and it's not just with the drivers!
Sure, the "NG" comes with an automatic 2 hour ETOPS but that's just the start of it. Alot more has to be proven before full approval is granted. Heck, Air Poly even had a 3 hour limit :} but it wasn't automatically handed over to Poly Blue. I hope you get it back anyway... more direct tracking may save you some duty time.
So it really is about the operations and inturn the economics.
Who knows what may occur. My bet is a 3rd shelf company. All I can see at the moment, is PacBlue just going about their current route structure and job... nothing more, nothing less.

[Sked]

For a start we don't track via FRT going to PH, just has to be within range as an altn. Secondly what Deeds is saying is although DJ does not have ETOPS approval it is still part of our sim program and we are tested on it, so we do have understanding of ETOPS and all he is saying is ETOPS is not a big deal for FLT Crew and I agree.

[Capt Basil Brush]

Actually Chocks, DJ can track 400nm South of Forrest if they want.

[Dookie on Drums]

If my memory serves me correctly, 5th of July is when ETOPS will resume at DJ. :ok:

[Chocks Away]

Capt Basil, ok then but I think their 1 hour planning rule (ie "within range") may be about 420 nm for the "NG".

Great to see you will have ETOPS back (according to Dookie). That holds well for any future longer-haul runs i guess, after a clean 12 months+ record of ETOPS ops.
You're still being tested on it due to "it" being in the Sim Training Martix Items, which are very hard to change.

So far as it not being a big issue with many of you... well that's very dependant on each individual. All I keep hearing from other more experienced drivers, that had experience with your lot is that the whole ETOPS issue was very much misunderstood there. Lets hope it's changed.

:ok:

[Roadrunner]

If a proportion of the VB troops are confused re the understanding of ETOPS planning and implementation, they are definitely not alone.

Not wishing to make excuses for anyone, however, there appears to be a fair amount of confusion on the subject in the industry. :sad: