Airbus wants Jets out of Bankstown

[SkyJetJockey]

Small jets could soon use Bankstown

Bankstown Airport in Sydney could be used for domestic commercial flights by small jet aeroplanes within a few years.

European aeroplane manufacturer Airbus met with Bankstown Airport to discuss commercial flights by the A318 100-seat aircraft between Bankstown and Australian state capitals.

Airbus product marketing manager for the A320 family, Daniel Carnelly, said the A318 was suitable for use at airports in built-up areas as its ability to land from a steeper angle than other commercial aircraft made it less noisy.

"Bankstown is obviously a noise sensitive airport because of its location," he said. "If we have an aircraft that can reduce the noise by using the steep approach then it becomes logical to do so."

Airbus envisages that the first flights will mainly cater to government employees working in the area, with services to Canberra and other state capital cities.

However, Mr Carnelly said the scope of the services was potentially much greater. "(Bankstown) has good transport links with the M5 and public transport is not far away," he said.
"The other point is it is potentially an airport that could be cheaper to operate from than Kingsford Smith in the same way that secondary airports in Europe are used by low-cost carriers."

The talks between Airbus and Bankstown Airport follow recent approvals to fly the A318 out of London City Airport, which is located about 9.5 km from the London's central business district and just under five km from Canary Wharf.
Airbus approached London City Airport with a proposal to use the A318 two-and-a-half years ago and commenced test flights in May.

However, Mr Carnelly said the A318 could be up and running more quickly at Bankstown Airport. "London City Airport is surrounded by buildings - large, tall buildings - which is something that you don't have at Bankstown," he said.

Mr Carnelly said Airbus had not yet approached Australian airlines with the proposal.

*** Aviation in itself is not inherently Dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly Unforgiving of any Carelessness, Incapacity or Neglect.........

[Ultralights]

I remeber writing something about this sort of thing going to happen at YSBK a while back! YSBK will be used for domestic B737 and similar type aircraft, the general public will be outraged, and demand a second sydney airport....the same airport they didnt want earlier..................

the govt point of view was, well you dont want Badgerys creek, you get Bankstown instead.

[Sunfish]

Another Qantas/NSW trick in the offing = provide crappy and slow transport systems out of Sydney to other State Capitals by requiring domestic pax to change airports, it makes it harder for inbound International investment punters to leave NSW.

I guess ideally Qantas would like to only operate its international long haul into Sydney, and then require pax to take an expensive taxi ride to Bankstown, there to stand in a Jetstar tin shed, followed by ritual abuse of a Jetstart flight to get to Brisbane Melbourne, Adelaide or Perth (Sorry, I forgot Hobart). That should ensure international visitors, and investors, confine their activitiies to Sydney.

[wessex19]

Wow Sunfish, we never thought of that but it certainly is a great idea. You forgot to add road Toll's required between Syd and Bk. That will keep em here spending their international coin!!!!:D

[Like This - Do That]

Sunfish old bean ..... Melbourne is very nice, but tis a long way out of town!

[duknweev]

Sunfish,

Melbourne jealousy of Sydney is soooooooo 1998

Bleak City and Sin City should look further north for the economic boom city of Australia in the 21st century.

:ouch:

[B A Lert]

This idea is not as silly as it sounds. Anyone remember when Jetstar was starting up? GD suggested the use of an airport other than YSSY and was laughed at. It appears that a success has been made of YMAV so why can't the same be repeated at YSBK? It's also worth noting that YSBK is closer to the centre of the huge socio-economic group that would use LCC's such as Jetstar. YSBK is now in private ownership and would jump at the opportunity to establish a legitimate RPT operation. The local civic leaders would also probably welcome the influx of jobs that such an initiative would bring. The days of "one city, one airport" have long gone. Sydney is no different.

Although Airbus are in the business of "selling" aeroplanes, it's in their interest to push the envelop to identify and open up new opportunities for existing or new customers. This is just what they are doing. It will be only a matter of time before the baby faced assassin announces an order for a small fleet of baby Airbuses, especially as his drivers on the 320 can move straight into them, CASA permitting.

[Always_init]

Get the State to put in a high speed rail link, boot the RAAF out, give us back our airspace, and most of the noise problems go away. The infrastructure is already in place, save a fortune. Go Willaimtown for my money. :=

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

... Richmond???
.
Rail already running straight past .... Room to develope (aviation) ..... roads ..well thats being worked on :\ ... no reason RIC and WLM etc cannot be used very profitably by LCC's ... Military (transports etc) to TW or the like .... the folks in TW would love the economic injection :ok: .... the folks in Rich and Willy get RPT Op's (both those airports have fantastic facilities for heayy maint etc) ... :O

[Eight Ball]

Ahhh...... hopefully they realise that BK, CN and Hox are full of student pilots armed with deadly cessnas, warriors and other lighties capable of colliding with these heavies. I was flying the other night and I heard a duchess stray in Syd CTA inadvertently, what security do they have that the lighties won't cause problems ? ..... they are gambling with people's lives.

Also currently, Bk is not allowing night circuits during weekends on my assumption that neighbours are complaining, let alone jets coming in during the night. hmmmm........... this will be interesting :}


Eight Ball ( on the corner pocket )

[Always_init]

Considering the speed at which Sydney is growing, how long is it going to be before the folks who buy cheap on a runway approach path start bitch'in (again) about the noise (again) and, having runways closed down (again). By using Willy, we get a lot of sky back, the whole area is in the middle of some of our busiest air routes. The only real issue is the fog at Willy. Seems a shame not to use it, just to keep a dozen or so aircraft in operation so the boys can stay current and do their 100 hrs a year or whatever in the circuit or training area. Plenty of room at Broken Hill or Andamooka for them.

[RENURPP]

didn't OZJET want to do exactly that. Whats changed?

[The Bunglerat]

Ahhh...... hopefully they realise that BK, CN and Hox are full of student pilots armed with deadly cessnas, warriors and other lighties capable of colliding with these heavies.

Yes, but seeing as our esteemed industry regulator would be very happy to deal only with an aviation environment that doesn't include GA, wouldn't BK jet RPT ops just provide one more reason to further their cause?

[Aussie]

Whats wrong with Willy and Ric...? :=
Simple, its a Military airfield and by the looks of things will stay that way for some time yet...
Even though most squadrons at Ric are looking at moving north, the DOD still wants to keep Ric for maintenance ect...
So Jetstar is gonna have to find elsewhere to operate there cheap flights! :p
Aussie

[Hugh Jarse]

Good luck getting public transport out of there after dark. The bloody taxi drivers are too scared to go there!:hmm:

I diverted the Dash in there a couple of years ago (bombed curfew with 30+ pax), and the company COULD NOT get more than 2 cabs in there. We needed about 20.

Of the 2 that showed, both were "out of their area". When I asked the drivers what was going on, they told me that others were called but had refused the jobs because of personal security concerns:D

I wish them luck:ugh:

[Always_init]

The folks at BAL have all but removed the scourge of the dreaded C172 and other dangerous airspace fillers, how?, simple it's only going to be the majors who can afford to operae at BK. Hell, the cost of fencing the place has to be paid for and of course there are developers to wine and dine. Happy daze when BK was the busiest secondary airport, not the most expensive. :ok:

[TIMMEEEE]

Very compelling arguments but lets face one huge fact.

The whingeing, whining true believers in the Labor heartland will make damned sure that their local MP will never sign off on this.

You think the Iemma Govt has the balls to tell some 50,000 Bankstown/Georges Hall and God-knows-where residents that his testimony to the State was to allow jet ops over their heads only nine months out from an election?

I think not.

It's the same reason that we dont have more dams, better roads or integrated transport systems in NSW - the Labor party tends to side with the likes of the Green's Party as well as other minority groups.

On the other hand if Macquarie Bank was owner of Bankstown and was willing to pay for a new terminal as well as put in a 7 degree ILS then they'd be in like Flynn !!!

Jesus H Christ - we cant even put in CAT II or CAT III ILS 's in this country let alone an ILS with a modified profile.
The certification costs alone would be huge.

Tell 'em they're dreaming !!!

[B A Lert]

....I diverted the Dash in there a couple of years ago (bombed curfew with 30+ pax),....

Hugh, are you sure you were affected by the curfew? I thought bug-smashers were not subject to curfew as it only applied to pure jets.

[Hugh Jarse]

Bugsmasher? Hmmmph!:hmm:

It's correct we can land after curfew, however on this occasion the downwind on 34L was greater than the maximum 20kts permitted on the Dash. Hence the diversion:suspect:

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

...... RIC and WLM already have some of the noisiest types (C130, B707, C5, C17, C141, FA18, etc) ..... DOD have been looking north for years granted .... all it will take is a compelling transport argument and a never to be repeated sale price and the Mil are outa there .... the political trade off would be turbo fan RPT business and better transport links for western Sydney and Newcastle, as well as maintenance company jobs (Airbus Oz or Boeing Oz)
… besides, the Mil transport hub and Maintenance could be located/consolidated with other Mil assets in better (less congested) areas ..... just a thought!
.
..... flack jacket [select] :E

[Starts with P]

You forget the most important thing about Bankstown: It's a GAAP aerodrome with up to 1,500' and 2-3nm of airspace. Where are you going to fit an ILS? And then, when will it be used? The RNAV and NDB approaches are enough to get into BK 99.999% of the time, and there is no room in the airspace for the ILS. Especially on 29, but also on 11. Either straight though 'OCTA', or up into the downwind leg for Sydney 16/34, or base 07. They will have to be sequenced with Sydney traffic, and the 'rules of GAAP' will need to be suspended for the 100-seat aircraft however many times a day it will be required.

A freakin' Tecnam has trouble turning base for 29, or crosswind for 11 without busting Sydney's zone! How do you think a A318 will go?

[Normasars]

B A LERT

I sure hope that your comment re bug smasher is a wind up mate.

I can asure you that D8 procedures are as cumbersome and convoluted as any in this known universe.
Have u BAL eva flown the type? NO Then fuc# off.

How can a 30000kg a/c be called a "bugsmasher"


Goodluck with FlightSim2007 wanabe!

[ernestkgann]

It's a bugsmasher, albeit a healthy one, because 30 000kg makes it about a 3 hour fuel load on aircraft that aren't. I think it was tongue in cheek!

[RENURPP]

How can a 30000kg a/c be called a "bugsmasher"


I thought the discussion was re a dash 8..........30,000kg. Bit bloody heavy?

[Escape_Slide]

Airbus is enough sh**t with planes let alone shoving the runway into the Hume Highway in an aborted takeoff. Maybe they will suggest an A380 next :ugh:

[Led Zep]

I thought the discussion was re a dash 8..........30,000kg. Bit bloody heavy?
Must mean two 100As. ;) Or a 400 with 3000kg of extra freight "the boss" said had to go. :E

[MarkD]

it would mean getting the magic eraser out for this document though right?
http://www.bankstownairport.com.au/files/bnk_mp_14.pdf
Runway 11C/29C
Runway changes planned are:
runway extension by 220 metres to 1,635 metres.
The runway extension is needed to enable the majority of Code C aircraft to operate at Maximum Take-Off Weight (MTOW) without undue payload or stage length restrictions. This extension essentially links Runway 11C/29C to the loop taxiway at the eastern end of the runway complex. The runway extension is essentially for existing operation purposes. It does not make Bankstown Airport available to aircraft larger than can currently use the Airport. It does not make Bankstown Airport capable of accommodating Code 4 aircraft such as the B737 and the A320 (both of which require longer and wider runways). The Aviation Development Concept included in this MP categorically rules out the use of Bankstown Airport by these aircraft; and pavement strengthening as required.

Pavement strengthening is required to extend the effective life of the pavement. The level of usage by aircraft such as the BAe146 included in the forecasts would degrade the pavements somewhat and reduce their effective life. Strengthening essentially is intended to protect the effective life of high cost assets. Strengthening of the pavements does not make Bankstown Airport capable of accommodating Code 4 aircraft such as the B737 and the A320. The Aviation Development Concept included in this MP categorically rules out the use of Bankstown Airport by these aircraft.

[B A Lert]

B A LERT
I sure hope that your comment re bug smasher is a wind up mate.


Sure was Norma. Hughie and others could see through my flippancy. Please lighten up a bit - how would you like to be a 737 driver only to hear your colleagues refer to your vehicle as a "Light Twin" or, worse still, a "maggot"??


BTW, what is "FlightSim2007 wanabe"?

Cheers.:ok:

[Like This - Do That]

Get the State to put in a high speed rail link, boot the RAAF out, give us back our airspace, and most of the noise problems go away. The infrastructure is already in place, save a fortune. Go Willaimtown for my money. :=

A state that can't be arsed building a railway line to Castle Hill, or extend an existing line to Bondi or around to UNSW?

Richmond could conceivably be a goer for this sort of thing, as Scurvy points out. But the state would be looking at a bill of hundreds of millions to get the extra rail links, upgrade Windsor Rd, etc.

I remain sceptical about these sort of schemes ....