Aviance

[bmibaby.com]

Not sure if this would better go in the ops forum but I think we reach a bigger airport audience through here. Following losing quite a few contracts systemwide, and rumours of huge management reshuffles mid-way through the Winter 05/06 season, how are aviance UK now holding up both locally at particular airports & systemwide?

:)

[Lite]

I think the best way to describe aviance uk's activities (remember "aviance" is the general term for the alliance of handling agents) would be stable. No more news of heavy chopping & changing or base closures, although rumours remain to abound that a merger or buyout from Menzies may be imminent. Currently have no financial figures to hand, but it might be worth checking aviance uk's parent company, Go Ahead's, website for specific information.

It'd be interesting to see if aviance are planning any expansion, I know they have contracted from 17 bases across the UK when they were launched in 1999, to 14 now. Locally, I know at BHX they are continuing to pitch themselves as an "upper crust" handling agent, which means they have a loyal following, but seem to find it difficult to attract newer business especially the low-cost carriers. Also interesting would be to know the effect on LPL following their pulling out.

[jmc757]

Its true that the last couple of years they have lost many contracts accross the country. However, does anyone else agree that the handling industry seems to go in cycles?

For example, a company agressively grows, grabbing new contracts left right and centre, undercutting rivals etc etc. Then somewhere down the line it appears they may have grown so big that they are having trouble sustaining a great level of service all the time, especially at those driven down prices they offered back when the contracts were won. Customer airlines becoming less happy with the service, and start looking elswhere. Meanwhile, those competitors you took the contract from, have had time to regroup and get there house in order a bit more, offering a better service albeit being a smaller operation. They begin winning back some contracts and the cycle continues from there....

Perhaps Aviance are in the lull of the cycle and need to sort things out a bit while their rivals have grown aggressively?

[In trim]

Unfortunately "Aviance" in the UK (let alone others that carry the tag overseas) are far from consistent, and in many respects that makes them unattractive to customer airlines.

Aviance continue to be a collection of "old Gatwick Handling", "old MAS", etc. that all sport the same paint job!

The management have never grabbed hold of it to try and develop a consistent / nationwide approach, and from some of the sales / tender presentations I have been involved in over the years, it's no wonder Servisair & Menzies have won the business......they are miles ahead!

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Remember that when Wizz first went to Luton they were handled by Servisair who ... shall we say ... didn't cover themselves in glory.

After intervention by the airport Wizz moved to Aviance and the rest as they say is history.

[Dred18]

I would say on a service level they are certainly the pick of the bunch at bhx. Not sure about other stations.

[Skyflier]

IMO, Aviance are about the best of the contracted agents at LHR, they handle some pretty demanding airlines like SQ and do it very well with good service on check in from pleasant and cheerful staff (with the very odd exception!), efficient boarding and good baggage delivery on return.

Compare them to Globeground and Aviance shine very brightly with the latter being represented by some of the surliest, rudest and most miserable people on the planet (maybe that's specially for gold card holders and they are worse with others) and baggage delivery that is unspeakably slow (and LH crews wonder why their passengers take too much hand luggage on board!). Try comparing Globeground handling LH in T2 and AZ either handling their own services or LX and AZ are the winners by a very long way - maybe not what you would expect but my experience time and time again and the AZ staff are pleasant.

I just hope that when *A move in to T1 that if there is to be a single contracted handling agent then it is Aviance ahead of any others. There's something seriously wrong with GG where the culture appears to be to treat all passengers with as much contempt as the staff member can muster on all occasions.

[mancairboy]

things are looking up at aviance at manchester with a few new contracts
announced and more on the way
from august they will be handling sn brussels
and there are rumours of a major contract to be announced starting in november

[Alan Tracey]

I think at LGW they have turned the corner also.

They got TOO big in the late 90s, but now seem to concentrate on the scheduled field and do a good job compared to GG and Swissport.

I think that every new carrier in the last year or so have chosen Aviance and some have moved from GG.

[Leezyjet]

They just lost a big contract (AI) to GG at LHR, and all the staff have been 2p'd (what does that actually mean anyway :confused:) over with it.

They do seem to offer a very good product at LHR certainly in T3, but I think alot of that has to do with the staff that came with the buyout from BMi who had a good base to build on.

The T1 ramp offering leaves alot to be desired. I've often waited 45 mins for my bag after my 30 min flight. Some nice blokes down there, but too many still have a chip on their shoulder from the Bmi sell off, and still see themselves as Bmi and do not see Bmi as the customer.

:\

[Lucifer]

TUPE is transfer on current terms and conditions to a new employer who takes on the business of the former employer.

[Mike Oscar]

Alan Tracey,

Not quite sure what suggests they've turned the corner at LGW? They've just cleared out the previous management (dubious decision?), the jury is still out on the new management team who have taken their place, and who will take a while to get up to speed. There are a number of disatisfied customer airlines....fact!

I see their product every day, and in many areas a very disinterested workforce (with some notable exceptions!) which often is highly visible to passengers.

Aviance at LGW need to really prove themselves over this summer to retain / secure contracts.

I have serious doubts about the long-term future of Aviance at LGW in its current form. They may have been able to secure a handful of new entrant carriers (this could be done to a large degree based on price and a good presentation) but there needs to be a dramatic and visible change if they are to encourage existing LGW carriers to move to them.

Mike Oscar

[FougaMagister]

OK, so Aviance lost Flybe at BHX, but the station still handles some large customers (bmi baby, bmi mainline, Thomas Cook, Air France/Cityjet, Lufthansa, KLM, SAS), some small ones (City Airline, Britishjet, Balkan Holidays...) and probably a few more contracts before the summer. Altogether a more quiet operation than it was in the Flybe days (thank God for that!), but still with a steady business.

Cheers :cool:

[Lite]

Will aviance uk expand to more stations, or do we expect them to detract from more?

[bmibaby.com]

Altogether a more quiet operation than it was in the Flybe days (thank God for that!), but still with a steady business.
Cheers :cool:

aviance are a particular favourite handling agent of mine because of the simple high levels of service we receive both from passenger services & the ramp, but think that the relationship with bmi group & aviance is like some sort of gentlemen's arrangement whereby it's sort of unquestioned that we'll choose aviance to handle us. Whilst I think aviance might be a bit more expensive, they offer a quality product which I think we're prepared to pay for. This was certainly the case originally with Menzies at EMA until they expanded far too quickly, and quality has suffered, which might have been the case at some aviance stations where they've lost contracts.

BritishJet

Don't aviance handle BritishJet at all UK airports?

[FougaMagister]

aviance are a particular favourite handling agent of mine because of the simple high levels of service we receive both from passenger services & the ramp... and Dispatch!

"Don't Aviance handle BritishJet at all UK airports?"

Possibly. BritishJet is composed of one Swiss-registered MD-90 wet-leased by Hello Airways to a Maltese tour operator and flying from several UK airports (including BHX).

Aviance lost Flybe at BHX exclusively on a price basis. When the handling contract came up for renewal, Swissport came up with an unrealistically low quote that Aviance simply couldn't match. Since both handling agents must have a fairly similar cost structure, there is little doubt that Swissport knew they would operate that contract at a loss - which is probably what is now happening - since every Flybe delay caused by Swissport implies that the turnaround is free of charge (a policy introduced by Ryanair if I'm not mistaken). That's already proving contentious (as was to be expected). Taking on such a big contract has also created a snowball effect on delays to other Swissport-handled airlines:ouch:

Watch this space! :cool:

[groundhogbhx]

Fouga

You seem to have a problem with Swissport, were you turned down for a job or worried about the winter?? Lets face it, KLM/Air France have a worldwide handling agreement with Swissport:)

Anyway don't believe everything your management tell you. Swissport don't take on contracts that will lose money, that is financial suicide especially on a contract that big. Although money was undoubtedly a factor so was the fact that last summer the three top performing charter airlines at BHX for otp were handled by Swissport as well as turning Mytravel Lite from a joke to the best performing scheduled carrier in their last summer of operation. Swissport are also the second best performing station for LX in europe. If anyone takes contracts at a loss (apart from Aviation Support) it's Aviance, ask your Station Manager how much profit Aviance will make on Britishjet.

It is true that the start of the Flybe contract hasn't gone as smoothly as those that won the contract would have liked, but I would challenge you to show me any contract that involves such a major change of working practices that has. Things are improving and will continue to do so as the staff gain more experience and the number of escorted passes reduces. Our other customers will also feel the benefit and hopefully not feel so neglected. After all taking on that many new staff was always going to be a problem no matter which company it was.

[In trim]

I can't comment for BHX, but would agree with groundhog's comments. Whilst Swissport might take contracts at a marginal rate to get the business, they do seem to have had more business savvy than Aviance have in the past, and I can't see them taking on loss-leaders to any large degree. Certainly not with a sizeable contract.

Aviance on the other hand (and I speak for stations other than BHX which I have no direct experience of) have tried committing commercial suicide on a number of occasions in the past with a number of contract tenders / negotiations.

[FougaMagister]

groundhogbhx

No I was never turned down for a job by Swissport. I was actually offered one two years ago but declined it. KLM/AF having a worldwide contract with Swissport? That's news to me. After all, Aviance handle them both at BHX - and that's not about to change.

I stand by my comments re. Swissport and Flybe. For a company the size of Swissport, and with two months' notice, the start of the handling contract should have gone more smoothly. Just ask the Flybe crews what they thought about it. I agree that lots of it has to do with initial training, but let's face it, that's not the customer airline's problem - and it should never be used as an excuse.

Cheers

[Deal or No deal]

I once met a 'high profile' person within Aviance, who told me that they will not undercut competitors to win contracts, but will rely on reputation, in the fact that after losing contracts in some stations, airlines are wanting to come back to Aviance due to the poor service supplied by others.

I know some big contracts have been lost, some workers laid off!! ( they don't care! )

But perhaps they have the right model in saying that ' you get what you pay for ' ????

Cost cutting can't go on forever!

New staff training and security checks for ID's is an issue nationwide... This is why airports / airlines need to reavaluate, and value their current employees!!

Having seen Servisair and their Manchester laod sheet fiasco, I'm glad when I'm on an Aviance flight with a dispacher who has a clue or two!!

[groundhogbhx]

FougaMagister

Again I would suggest you ask your station manager about KLM/AF (I could try and dig out a copy of the company newsletter that covers it if you like, although I doubt any that old are still around). Swissport also have a similar agreement with KM, thats why they came over to us at contract renewal time, nothing to do with the service they were getting from Servisair. With the worldwide coverage of Swissport it is quite possible to expect more airlines to follow suit.:ok:

As for Flybe, we pretty much doubled our staff in those two months and had a major change to the way we operate for the said airline at their request. Some Team Leaders have taken to the change very well, others are taking more time to adjust, the amount of training isn't an issue it's all about how quickly the staff adapt. I have absolutely no doubt that Aviance would be having the same problems we are if things were reversed. I would love to see what would happen if WW did the same thing and got rid of the despatchers at short notice. Most of the crews don't seem to have much problem with how things are going now but there are always the awkward ones, at least the Egyptian is leaving soon and the E195's will be turning up at the end of the summer which should reduce the number of tech delays.

[FougaMagister]

I think you've nailed the problem on the head when you mention that Flybe got rid of Dispatchers at short notice. Simultaneously changing both the way they do turnarounds AND their handling agent at BHX was never going to be easy. Whoever imagined that an airline such as Flybe can maintain an intensive, hub-based, short-turnaround operation without Flight Dispatchers needs their head examined - and that has nothing to do with the hard work achieved by the Team Leaders (a number of which are ex-Aviance if I'm not mistaken). After all, even the most extremely cost-conscious low-cost airline of them all (Ryanair) still use the services of Flight Dispatchers - and with good reason.

Losing Flybe seems to have allowed Aviance to increase the quality of the product delivered to their other customers - including WW, with whom they have the closest of working relationships without being a subsidiary. bmibaby have been very satisfied with the service and know better than to go down the Flybe route.

I have no axe to grind against Swissport - most of the problems experienced by Flybe when switching contracts were really self-inflicted and should have been foreseen.

Cheers :cool:

[groundhogbhx]

Fouga

Hate to correct you but at Ryanairs largest station, STN, they don't use despatchers it's all done by Team Leaders:sad: I think this was where they got the idea from. It seems that FR and BE are playing copycat, BE start charging for hold bagggage so do FR, FR did away with despatchers at their largest base so BE hve had a go at that. Where will it end, no loaders, no TIPO, who knows:(

Also for details of the Swissport/KLM deal look here http://www.swissport.info/mediacenter/index_news.php?id=183&ref=archive:ok:

[FougaMagister]

I stand corrected re. STN; I recall I couldn't see Dispatchers when I flew from there. It seems that FR still use them at most outstations though - where FR require that they help with ramp ops. One thing that charging for hold luggage has done for Ryanair is to reduce the overall amount of checked-in luggage; it is now quite rare to have bags loaded in H1 once H2 is full (H3 and H4 hardly ever used). Less bags = lighter aircraft = lower fuel burn = more £££ for Ryanair (who already make a £5 profit per passenger!). Obviously, it also makes for faster loading/unloading during turnarounds. Anyhow, 25 minute turnarounds on 737-800/189Y is quite hot!

Cheers :cool:

[groundhogbhx]

Flybe has greatly reduced the hold luggage on most routes as well. Don't think the a/c is that much lighter though as the hand luggage has increased. At least we don't have to set up the flights to account for it all now.:)