Is $16000(AUD) for PPL the going rate?

[hoopdreams]

Hi,

There is only one flying school here in Canberra (i think) and they are charging around $16000aud for PPL (ball park figure). I'm gonna ring up all the different flying schools to find as well, just thought you guys could comment. BTw, I'm concerned that because this school monopolizes the market, they could charge whatever the wanted. However, I will be working a day job in Canberra for the next few years, so my options are limited in terms of training location.

If it is way out of the norm, would you suggest I save up and do a course at some specified flying school. Any suggestions?

cheers

[Capt. Wingdrop]

Probably $2000 more expensive then what I've seen. Usually around $7000 for GFPT and $7000 for PPL. If you went through with the minimum syllabus hours both would be closer to $6000 each.

[Bendo]

Minimum requirements, if I remember correctly, are:
40 hours total
10 hours command.

Let's presume that you do the GFPT in a C152:
20 hours @ $190 = $3800
and your cross-country in a C172
20 hours @ $240 = $4800

Text books, maps, exams, misc gadgets etc let's allow $1000.

That's only coming up to $9,600. If you pay 'em $50 for each briefing it still only comes to $11,000.

Check out what they include in your PPL... is there aome higher-performance stuff there? is it the minimum hours or a package that exceeds the minimum?

Good luck

[QNH1013.2]

It all depends on how you go about it and the school and how you are treated in terms of instructions. If you put in the effort you will reap the rewards both mentally and financially. Try and see if you can speak with former or current students. Ask the school for records on how long they think it will take. How long have the instructors worked there, are there many instructors, do they have a high turnover of students and or instructors...

The fundamental underlying fact is that you need 40 hours minimum for a PPL.

If a 172 is $240 per hour for example, you're talking $9,600 absolute minimum for flight time.

Add to that any maps, theory courses, theory books, exam fees, ASIC, GFPT test, PPL test, simulator, etc.

If you're a slow learner then you will take longer and if your theory isn't kept up from the start you will fall behind and may need to take a theory course.

Cost is largely up to you and the committement you make.

I would try and get a full breakdown of the cost including all flying estimates and rates.

Also, what type of aircraft are they offering? Why bash around in a 172 or similar aircraft when their may be smaller and cheaper 2 seaters that might do the job nicely.

QNH

[dude65]

[QUOTE][If you're a slow learner then you will take longer and if your theory isn't kept up from the start you will fall behind and may need to take a theory course./QUOTE]


It's not the slow learner bit that's going to up the cost (although that won't help),it's how often you can afford to fly. This is particularily true during the GFPT stage. My advice would be to get the GFPT stage done in one hit. Fly 1 or 2 times a week if you can afford it. You don't want any skills you've learnt degrading because you've run out of $$$. If you can fly on a more regular basis ,you'll find that the first 20 minutes of the next lesson won't be spent doing revision.
This'll save some of your hard earnd $$$

[Chimbu chuckles]

There is no point working out the costs on the minimum required hours when 99% of people will never come close to achieving that.

60-70 hrs is more realistic...40 hrs is pure fantasy.

[prospector]

Why pure fantasy?? modern trikes harder to fly than aged taildraggers??

Prospector

[wdn]

i agree with cc.

i think you'll find the $16000 would be based on more than the 40 hour minimum.

rightly so IMHO. i guess the standard people are tested against is higher now than it may have been in the past - certainly procedurally. maybe the instructors aren't as good as well.

[QNH1013.2]

There are plenty of people out there that have done it in the minimums. It's usually a little over once you add time for the flight tests in though.

[falcon996]

what about cpl? what would be a good price for that

[hoopdreams]

The school in Canberra's dual training rate is as follows:-

Cessna 150M $178 - post GFPT $168
Cessna 152 $195 - " " $185
Cessna 172 $220 - " " $204

GFPT maybe 30 hours more or less in a 152 = $5850
ground theory = $50 (not sure how much required for PPL)

PPL maybe 30 hours more or less in a 172 = $6120

Sum total = 11970 (excluding ground - exam fee - text books)

So what do you guys reckon? Correct me if my figures are not taking other factors into account. I was hoping on doing one lesson a week, but maybe saving up and doing it all in one hit is more desirable?

Thanks for your help.

Cheers

[Unhinged]

Been in the industry for a good few years now and never seen anyone do it in the minimum times. It's not a negative reflection on the students, instructors or the training organisations.

The minima are the minima, not the ideal.

A good average in practical terms is about 40 hours to GFPT and 25-30 to PPL.

[OZAZTEC]

GFPT 6/7 thousand dollars
PPL 12/13 thousand dollars
CPL 28/30 thousand dollars - includes NVFR and ME

These are total not accumalative

What is going on???

Paul

[jetbrett]

I got my CPL about a month ago, i have got a NVFR rating and up to date I have spent a lot of money, but I did get away with around the minimum hours. 150 hour syllabus. I had 157 before my test. But yes nothing ever goes to plan, if you plan to spend $12K for a PPL, put another $5K on it for various stuff, I remember f*&#ing up a PPL nav and doing it again, so little unexpectancies will always catch us unaware. Have Fun JB

[Horatio Leafblower]

Unhinged

I am staggered that you reckon 40+ for a GFPT!

Most of my students rock through their GFPTs in 20-25 hours, their PPLs (including CTA) in 40-50 total. Only those students over 50 are hitting the big big hours that you are quoting. NONE of 'em are having dramas.

On the other hand, there is a "big" aero club down the road recently took 80 hours to train a bloke I know to PPL. So far as I can tell he had a different Grade 3 instructor for each lesson. :=
He's an intesting bloke, would love to see the ESIRs on his CASA file one day:rolleyes:

[tinpis]

My how times change.
PPL cost tin $500.
The only difference them days I think was that it was FUN ! :hmm:

[Unhinged]

Gidday HL !

Unhinged
I am staggered that you reckon 40+ for a GFPT!

Not quite what I said.

The practical average time that I've observed students taking for GFPT is about 40 hours. I'm not saying right or wrong, just that that's what it seems to take.

Many factors affect the times, including how often the student flies and what they actually want to get out of the training - Some just want to get the licence and be done with it, some want much more than that. Two of mine are flying once a month at the moment, and they are not making speedy progress despite everyone's best efforts. I have others who fly twice a week, and it's obvious that they'll go through much more quickly.

I would love the times to be shorter, but at the end of the day we teach to a standard, not to a time.

[VMC4ME]

Well I did my PPL(A) unrestricted in 3.0 hours plus the flight test. I already posessed an RA-Aus "certificate' and had never flown a 172 before. 2 hours or thereabouts of general handling & instruments plus the flight test. It's all about confidence and preparation. At around $4-5k for the RA-Aus plus conversion to GA, I think I know what I prefer in terms of cost. Did my instrument time under the hood in RA-Aus; all legal and 100% above board as they say and I ain't no wizz kidd.

[dude65]

Mr. Hoop
$220 per hour duel C172 isn't a bad rate. I guess it depends on the age/condition of the aircraft.

Cost wise you need to start adding in textbooks,medicals,briefings,not to mention those idiotic ASIC/AVID cards. Mate,believe me,it starts to add up. It will almost get to the point where the hourly hire af the aircraft is the cheap part. And yes,try to do it in stages.

[The Bunglerat]

In my previous life (10 years instructing in GA), I rarely ever saw a student achieve a licence in minimum hours according to the syllabus. That's not to say it didn't occur, but it was rare. I myself was fortunate to get through training right on the minimums, although not because of any great skill level, only because of the fact that my dad had spent many years in aviation - and I had been fortunate in gaining considerable exposure to flying before taking my first lesson.

Nevertheless I have learned an important lesson when it comes to flying activities: No matter how much you think it will cost, or how long it will take - it usually costs more and takes longer than you thought it would.

[barney01]

$220 dual in a 172 is about right - not ripping you off there. $16000 is probably an honest estimate what a PPL costs on average.

I have to agree that between 30 and 40 hours is normal for a GFPT.

Rule of thumb for getting a CPL (one that my dad was told in the 60s) is that it will cost about the same as a new Falcon. Stands the test of time pretty well (although a new XR8 might be closer!).

Cheaper way is to do your training hours in RAA then hop into GA when (and if!) you want.