THAT SECRET FLIGHT ORGANISED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS

[Mad Dog 83]

I am perplexed.

There has been a series of court cases, not to mention media speculation, which culminated today in a Court Order compelling the Department of Home Affairs to disclose all information concerning the deportation of a Pakistani national from South Africa. The broader issues surrounding the allegations about this affair have been thoroughly covered in the media. However the lawyer for the family of the person deported is reported as saying that he is still not convinced that all the required information has been disclosed to him. He particularly refers to the "flight number" of that nocturnal flight out of Waterkloof, which has been confirmed as having taken place (if I have to believe what I read in the popular press)

Now, I ask....how is it possible for an aircraft to arrive at Waterkloof, and depart therefrom, without the flight particulars (at least the registration of the aircraft, aircraft type, port of origin, destination etc) being recorded, especially if it is an international flight, as has been suggested. Surely the air traffic control at various levels have documented this flight. If not, how can this be explained? For one, from a safety point of view, I would be worried as a pilot, if I have to operate in air space where "clandestine" aviation takes place without ATC being informed, etc.
Quite frankly, I cannot accept that an event took place where an aircraft can simply fly into and out of an airport such as Waterkloof on international flights, WITHOUT ATC knowing!

I would be interested to learn other views on this issue!

[B Sousa]

Very Interesting... Maybe as a Pakastani National The South African Government has decided that he has all the information they need to give him.....or the rest of his family.
And just maybe as to the flight they might have decided that you and I and most others, dont have a "Need to Know" about how they operate......
Could be that ATC also feels you may not have a need to know about the flight... Those things do happen you know.....
Your post sounds as if you are throwing out the question without in fact contacting someone within the ATC system..
There are things in all governments that some of us at the lower end of the food chain should not be privy too.
What do you think??

[DawnTreader]

Do you mean the a/c that flew in from Pakistan and left on the 6th of November 2005 from Waterkloof AFB with that Pakistani national??
I believe it was a Gulfstream II-SP registration A6-PHY. Nice bit of kit!
http://photos.airliners.net/photos/middle/8/9/0/0953098.jpg

[B Sousa]

It geting Interesting as to what is this aircraft in relation to a deportation of someone who is just a deportee? Do all get deported in Chartered jets, or an Aircraft registered in the U.A.E.??
Who is Phoenix Aviation?? Just another charter Company? Between the posters and the photo, something here does not pass the smell test.

[DawnTreader]

Phoenix have a hub in Karachi so nothing odd about that.

The Pakastani officials allegedly had authentic British accents; "Get in the aircraft please, there's a good chap. Would you like some tea?"

If I ever get deported (sans hood := ), please come and fetch me in a Gulfstream.:cool:

Range is about 2500 nm so presumably they stopped off somewhere.

[Daede1]

Phoenix Aviation = airline owned by arms dealer Christopher Barrat Jolley.

[B Sousa]

Interesting more so now if one were to know the "deportees" name (s)

[Daede1]

Khalid Rashid. Aircraft never arrived in Pakistan either.

[r3500vdp]

Just a brief correction based on Daede1's comment.

CBJ is actually in a British jail and doesn't own much beyond a pair of slippers probably. Phoenix Aviation as it relates to the pictured aircraft is an entirely different outfit based out of Kyrgyzstan, aircraft registered in Jordan and involved in Iraq mainly using 737's. Still a bit dubious is the fact that their prior IL-18's all had strong connections to Viktor Bout's airlines (Renan, Santa Cruz).

Anyway all of the above is slightly off topic. But curious to know what the outcome will be, specially with the way both the EU and the US are bashing the report by the council of europe on rendition flights.

[B Sousa]

daede 1. You seem to know a lot about this incident and are just dropping crumbs.
Why dont you just come out and tell is what your trying to say..
reading between the lines is interesting but a bit too speculative.
If he is a serious bad guy then maybe airmailing him over the ocean is not a bad thing.....

[DawnTreader]

The pilot says they dropped their pax off in Kenya.

[Heli_Sticktime]

Anyone have anymore gen on this or has this thread just died, some of you have implied that you knew the pilots? Come on where's the info