Emirates 2% Payrise

[Desert Fox]

Emirates made DHS 535 millions profit last financial year, now they give us 2% payrise and 3 weeks profit share (we get paid for 12 month).
Next Year they want to see at least 600 million profit otherwise no profit share.
What do you think about it? Shall we join the Lufthansa guys?

[The Resistance]

Fellas, better learn your lesson quickly (as opposed to those of us here at CX...!). The only way to ensure you are treated with proper professional respect is to subject your management to a short, sharp, shock. I can guarantee that they won't pay you a penny more than they are while the aircraft continue to operate normally (...why should they?). We have had to learn the hard way that the managements of airlines only understand power, and unless you wield it in your favour, they will wield it in theirs. Good luck

[wonderbusdriver]

Get real man.

They´d kick anyone of you out faster than you can say "str*ke".
No union, no rights and an extremely inhomogenous group of pilots (says nothing about their quality of work!!).
Just think of last year.

And...a starter in EK makes about as much net as a ten year LH-FO, plus housing utilities etc.
You´ll have at least three guys for each one of you knocking down their door, just to get a position.

Not that you shouldn´t try it, nevertheless...

[Warlock2000]

Wonderbus...

It's amazing how the grass always seems greener on the other side. Well, let me tell you..... there simply ain't any grass here!

2% - What a laugh!

[Airbubba]

Two percent, wow, that much? Why keep going and someday an EK widebody captain will make over $100K a year for 90 hours hard time a month.

Those Delta guys complain but they don't know how good they have it...

[wonderbusdriver]

Warlock:

Our numbers suck and yours aren´t much better.
I know there isn´t any grass down there - (Tim A. wanted me to come for three days and that was it - lucky me, I guess, I didn´t even have to have sleepless nights).

Of course 2% is worse than a slap in the face (considering he profits and planned expansion), but as you know better than I do, HRH is a "shrewd" businessman and you people are nothing more than mercenaries to him.
Do you think the "management" from the "subcontinent" would support you?

I know a few great guys in EK and I wish you all the best of luck!

[Fugazi]

The Company states that this years Pilots pay award is in fact 5%. However, they fail to understand that the Pilots pay scales reflect an automatic 3% yearly increment, which means that although all other employees in the Emirates group have received a 5% salary rise, the Pilots have effectively received only 2%!!
The only way things will improve is if people start voting with their feet. Otherwise all the continual whinging will amount to nothing. Actions speak louder than words!!
Its a great shame that it should be like this, but that's just the way it is.
Nevertheless, Emirates is still a great job (money aside!!!), and Dubai is a fantastic place to live. For example last week Sting played live here, and last night Go West and Tony Hadley were on stage. Dubai, the cultural Capital of the World!!!

[nilnotedtks]

..hang on Fugazi, Cultural Capital of the world you might think it is, but once you have had an entertaiing night with Sting, Tony Hadley, Go west, et al, just have a peek in your wallet and see how much it has cost you, perhaps for you and your family. More than a 2% pay rise can support for too long I would wager !

[Cpt Nil Further]

2%!!!, you lucky bugger. At British European we got 0% and no profit sharing......the equivalent I believe of a pay cut....By the way ,if you all go sick on the same day....need I say more.

[Dropp the Pilot]

Gee, thanks for the rallying us all, Mr. Cathay Resistance, but I've done a quick check and all the Emirates pilots have a maturity level exceeding that of a five-year-old. You can see therefore that it will impossible for us to call in en masse and claim we can't come to work because we have a tummy ache.

More importantly, as both our companies are firmly situated in the real world it is the OWNER of the company who decides what the salaries will be. If he get's it completely wrong, pilots will leave. It is very important to note that in the last ten years NOT ONE pilot has left Emirates for a job which offered both better pay and better conditions, nor will any leave now.

Anyone who thinks they can drive up salaries by anonymous peeing and moaning had better create a new forum called "Impotent Avarice", although it could be argued that "Fragrant Harbour" adequately meets that need.

[wonderbusdriver]

That´s what I meant...(Even though I personally know one guy who left for "greener pastures" but went back)

[Warlock2000]

I think the point that everyone seems to be missing is that EVERYONE at EK got a 5% (total) salary increase. NOT ONLY THE PILOTS.

So, to me, in a world where airline pilots are asking for 20% plus (and getting it), this implies that by sitting at the sharp edge of a widebody, your value basicly equates to that of the flight ops janitor.

Please excuse me for being p!ssed off.

[Airbubba]

>>It is very important to note that in the last ten years NOT ONE pilot has left Emirates for a job which offered both better pay and better conditions, nor will any leave now.<<

Most couldn't get a better job elsewhere, otherwise they wouldn't be expats living in a desert war zone working for HRH Sheikh Mak. "Give a Brit a title and he'll work for nothing" as the saying goes <g>. You won't see many American expats until the next unsuccessful ALPA strike... If a guy tells you he was a captain at United and left to get a job at Emirates, I'd check his story quite carefully.

EK is a great airline with explosive growth potential. However, the pilot salaries are pathetic compared to what we get here in the U.S., the Comair pilots are trying to get more for flying an RJ than an EK 777 captain makes.

[GROUNDSTAR]

Errr...Who is Tony Hadley??

[Fish]

Tony Hadley is the ex-Lead singer with an 80's UK band called Spandau Ballet. I spent my 2% going to the show and wished that I'd taken the missus out for a couple of shawarmas instead. Well, it woudl have had to have been one actually, as I couldn't stretch to a couple, you see the pay rise was not quite what we had hope for, I digress.......

Go West weren't bad, but Mr. Hadley came across as a rather obnoxious sad git who hadn't realised that he was there as part of a retro night, not as a headline attraction to a bunch of impressionable teenagers.

Anyway, we've got Jimmy Barnes (AC/DC - the band not his particular preference...) coming over and those great crooners, Air Supply as well as the Battle of the Bands gig at the end of the month, with all this fun to be had, who needs a payrise?!!

[borabora]

well if EK opens up to direct entry skippers,we'll all go to the "desert",their conditions are quite good.Its never enough??

[Warlock2000]

Boringbora,

What makes you think we'd have you...?

[sandkfir]

It is interesting to note that candidates interviewd recently for FO positions have all been "mature" in order to bolster the experience levels at EK. Most have substantial command experience and would otherwise be the very people applying for DEC positions.Sad to say that the success rate has been a dismal 35%.



[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Towers (edited 05 May 2001).]

[wonderbusdriver]

Any reasons for the "dismal" success rates?

[Dune]

I must admit to being very surprised by the lack of responses from the pilots at Emirates to the 2% pay raise. How does it feel to be valued by the company at the same level as the guy who dumps the lavs or sweeps the hanger floor? I feel this is an insult and would have just as soon seen them keep their 2%.

It is obvious EK has decided to test the waters and see what the pilots are made of (or to be more precise how little they are prepared to settle for). Probably not such a difficult thing to do when there is no pilot representation but what price do you put on loyalty? How much is it worth to EK to lose that loyalty? How much can/do pilots contribute (or maybe not contribute should that loyalty be lost) to the bottom line?

It might of benefit for those who still think Emirates is a "good deal" to read the post by ex-expat on "low paid uk pilots". And for those who may be thinking of EK as a career with all of its shiny toys maybe this "pay raise" will give you an idea of what you'll be dealing with for your career.

[luke]

For Dune and Warlock...

EK Janitor/Lav dumper salary is probably 1000 DHS per month, so he gets a 50 DHS ($13.62 US) per month raise with the 5% increase and he appreciates it. His 3 weeks of profit bonus give him another 750 DHS ($204 USD).

EK Captain probably averages 25,000 DHS per month and he gets a 1250 DHS ($340 USD) per month increase with the increment jump (3%) and the additional 2%. Plus the 3 weeks of profit share mean another 18,750DHS ($5108 USD), so he can splurge a little.

You are no more important than any other person working within the company, so put things into perspective and either get on with the job or leave it. Simple!

------------------
a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...

[This message has been edited by luke (edited 06 May 2001).]

[wonderbusdriver]

Yup.

You´re management isn´t stupid.
They´re fully aware of your possibilities.
The only way you guys can show what you think is buy leaving (or taking the 99% percent risk of organizing and having the "leaders" kicked out) - to where?
Why did you leave your old employer in the first place?

They know, and that´s how they select their pilots...

Gotta make the best of the situation, which isn´t hopeless if you relax a little.

[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 06 May 2001).]

[Cakky Pants]

FISH,

You'll be wanting Marillion to come to Dubai next. Thank goodness they've disbanded.

Anyhow, they sound too much like Genesis....

PS Has anyone told you that you look like Phil Collins? :)

[Bus429]

Luke,
Spot on!. I left EK seven years ago and in some respects regret doing so. I do remember the pilots being treated like gods - picked up to go to "work" and back, best of the villas etc. Are pilots never happy? A lot seem to think they are above everyone else in the airline industry. The guy that dumps the lavs is as important as the pilot (how many flights will depart with full waste tanks?) and frankly deserve a lot more.
So, flyboys, take a reality check! Strike at EK? First flight home!!
Every time I fly I wonder what sort of mentality is in charge up front (at least during take-off). Fair degree of confidence when AFCS is in command.

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif :)

[This message has been edited by Bus429 (edited 06 May 2001).]

[411A]

Bus429--
Considering some of the past statements from EK guys on this forum, you have very good reason to wonder. Suspect that their management has come to the same conclusion as CX, these "junior" guys are paid way too much.

[twitchy]

Do you guys in EK know that Indian Airlines has last month given a 40% pay rise to their pilots. You know the cost of living there is nothing as compare to Dubai. The guys are USD 10,000/- plus now.......so wake up EK guys.
;)

[2high]

Sandkfir - why the high failure rate of these " mature experienced applicants." Thought that there was a drive to get these sort of guys but if its a 35% pass rate after the intial screening ( and no doubt a reference from some EK employee)then what the hell is going on?

[Fish]

DISBANDED!!?? I'll have you know, Mr. Cacky Pants, that the band are alive and well and if you venture down to www.marillion.com (http://www.marillion.com) you may even find a better way of life!

As for coming to Dubai, that is on the cards, EMI are onto it as are Dubai FM, the band are keen, just need the sponsorship now. If I can get them more airplay on the radio, and onto Emirates Airline in-flight radio, I am sure that I can get them over here for a concert. The show can't be as bad as Tony Hadley at the country club....

Phil Collins? Who's he? Maybe he just happens to look like me...

There was an incident on a Japanese train once involving me, a Phil Collins T-Shirt and three Japanese schoolkids, God that was funny....

http://www.the-company.com/images/tpoflogo.jpg

P.S. Fish left Marillion years ago, anyway I've hijacked the thread, back to the payrise...

Marillion / Anoraknophobia, the new Album. It's good to be an Anorak.
Forget your prejudices, just buy it and listen....

http://www.marillion.com/images/albums/anorak.jpg

[This message has been edited by Fish (edited 07 May 2001).]

[AirbornRanger]

Emirates....
Mature pilots success rate 35%.....Does make you think doesnt it!!
Management is not stupid at EK, they need "drivers" not brains. Now these drivers must value status and a Disney type life, rather than Integrity and selfrespect.
Many people can fly aeroplanes, lets face it! But to have an opinion and backbone made people like Mandela different, the fact that most majors in Europe promote this is to get a cockpit enviroment that is critical of its own performance so to exersise realistic self-confidence and humbleness.
As far as I know, Emirates pilots are a bunch of rejects from Europe/Australia/NZ who cant believe the position they are in at EK....to good to be true....
This syndrome makes happy people, but surely doesnt promote a mature and humble flight deck enviroment. The fact that this is a major consern for managment when they select pilots says more about the airline rather than the pilots. The pilots are simply "drivers" that can be replaced if equiped with an opinion, and be sure....it takes them two hours to get you out of the UAE with a cancelled residence permit would they not like you.....
Lets also be fair and say that I´m happy for everyone who has a position at EK, as they have found somthing good which they couldnt find back home. However dont try to convince me that you would not rather be in your home country at a good position with your national carrier.
Would I experience this so called "failure" I would see it as sign of personal maturity, as a company like Emirates has this as their main point to fail people on......Good luck EK, and boys....(because you do not accept female drivers do you???) have a good time at Disney Land (somebody called it the real world....pathetic)for as long as it lasts....

United Arab [email protected] thank you, not for me.

[Fugazi]

"Luke",I think you will find that the average EK Skipper is on around about 29,000 DHs per month take home. Still a great job, but YES a 2% rise on top of our 3% increments was a slap in the face for all the Pilot community.

[Bus429]

Fugazi,

Why do you need more if you are on DHS 29K and free house/free car loan/free school and probably free sex? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif :)

------------------
Bus429 - the pilot's pal!

[kurmitola]

twitchy,
I personnaly dont care if Indian Airlines got a 40% rise....is the company making money ? Living in India is probably a lot cheaper than other places but have you tried living there ? Try the taxis in summer ( bring your own a/c ) and you will know what I'm talking about. A hugh majority of us pilots know that its not all about money. If you can strike a balance between both and get all your priorities right ( wether you are single or married with/without kids) then some "packages" will look very attractive than others. I am sure a lot of us do not agree that " most of the pilots in EK are a bunch of rejects from UK/OZZ/NZ as was implied by someone on this thread. Who are you to say that ? What proof do you have?
They have people from SQ, BA,BMI,QF,CX,LH,LTU, MH,SAA,ANZ etc,etc...rejects you say ? Then I felt so sorry for you. They, I learned have also got a few whom left years ago and came back. BTW, how many airlines drove their pilots to work in a latest V 70 or sometimes a BMW 740i as I was told....is it right EK boys or you are just exxagerating ?

[Ghostflyer]

Did EK actually get a payrise. Last time I looked in my shopping basket 'realistic' inflation was running at about 10-15%. Seems to me we have just got a slightly smaller pay cut.

Loyalty is an important asset for any company but sadly it tends to get shunted to the back when a company grows from being a small employer to a larger one. I believe Virgin has suffered from a similar problem , where the bearded one has traded on loyalty for years whilst gradually diminishing the worth of his employees. Sadly when the loyalty of the troops starts to disappear, the initial effects are very insidious but then a glut of experience is lost 3 or 4 years down the line and it takes many more years to correct the situation.

Emirates is quite proactive in a lot of areas but the company will screw itself it continues to devalue the employees. Lack of representation is a snag, but always will be in the middle east, there was one rumour swirling that the management had been authorised to give pilots a 29% payrise but had also been told they would get 1% of any savings made in reducing this rise. If this is true it appears to be another example of the management padding their wallets at the expense of employees.

Emirates is in danger of becoming that old tree full of monkeys, everyone looking down from the top of the tree sees smiling faces but all the monkeys at the bottom can see are a bunch of....

[Warlock2000]

AirheadRanger,

May I suggest you get your facts straight before shooting your mouth off and making a complete @rse of yourself in front of the whole world? You clearly have no idea of what happens at EK, nor where the pilots come from. Try going back and reading Kurmitola's post! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/redface.gif

No prizes for guessing why you didn't make the EK interview http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif !

[This message has been edited by Warlock2000 (edited 07 May 2001).]

[twitchy]

KURMITOLA
;)

I don't know from your post that whether you were replying to my post or AirbornRanger's. I think you are handicapped with DR navigation(just with the page change you don't know where are you going on the thread). I have never lived in India and don't know the living conditions there. What my point was that even a 3rd world country is paying its pilots well. whereas airlines like EK,SQ etc talk about peanuts (2% or 5% pay rise) Its like a straight slap on the face. May be you guys are used to it being away from your own country (2nd class citizen)' More over its an open forum so don't get bugged. Learn to enjoy yourself on a desert safari. We are happy in our own country and certainly doing very well so what we don't have maids like you.

;)

[mole]

So now I understand, Kermit is employed by EK management to make the job sound good. But hang on a minute isn't he the same guy who pops up on "Fragrant Harbour" making out that the CX guys are overpaid morons etc. Who the f--k is Kermit. I know, you must be the guy who hates having peanuts thrown at your girl friend. :)

[Nite_Flite]

TO AIRBORNRANGER from Sweden...


<As far as I know, Emirates pilots are a bunch of rejects from Europe/Australia/NZ who cant believe the position they are in at EK....to good to be true....>

...if that is what you know, boy you don't know much...a quick look in the EK pilot magazine would reveal the top jobs that these guys came from. One actually left EK fot BA, BUT CAME BACK!!

No I am not employed by them (yet), but I would like you to know that there are many applicants from your own national carrier.

OK I've let off my stream!!

[ten/four]

Dear fellow Aviators and Colleagues.

So much envy, discontent and resentment among colleagues in a international marketplace arriving from a 2% pay increase at EK.

For those of you that feel that you are so much better of, be sympathetic.

For those of you how "wish that you where there" you are two % better of then when you started to "wish".

For those of you that are already there and happy, do`nt worry be ha....

And for those of you that are there, but hoped for alot more, try to do something about it!

What ever the case may be, please be polite and civile to one another. WE ALL SHARE THE SAME AIRSPACE.

Regards, ten/four(10/4)

[This message has been edited by ten/four (edited 07 May 2001).]

[kurmitola]

twitchy mole,
I, like ( maybe ) you work for my national carrier ( MH) and quite happy at it ( theres always areas to be improved...in my case right now...a hell of a lot !). And yes! like most of our friends in the desert, I also have a maid at home ...from a neighbouring country. I remember back in 89 when we used to have 300+ pilots from down under working with us and I believe quite a number are now in SQ, CX and also EK. So, based on the ranger's statement the rejects go to EK and the rest to CX/SQ. Care to clarify ? BTW, we dont use DR anymore...just line select, confirm and execute. Peanuts by your standard, but fuel is a lot cheaper here in KL as compared to sunny ( rainy ) UK and no BSE. As I've mention in FH, we looked out of our living room and we see the green instead of the next block of concrete plus the smell. You guys deserve a lot better pay than us and thats not a safety issue. Cheers!! :)

[Farside]

Airbornranger. I know and I should not react since I am not too stupid to realize that you are just trying to stirr the pot. But just for the record I have a lot of friends in EK, Captains and F/O alike, who are all highly qualified professionals who most probably fly circles around you. A lot of them came from SQ where I had the pleasure to fly with them and let me assure you that they were extremely good at what they did, something that EK realized and used in their fast promotion. The only looser here is you, since it is very obvious that your single brain cell has left your empty skull to position itself in the lower parts of your body!!!

[This message has been edited by Farside (edited 08 May 2001).]

[7x7]

I'm a bit embarrassed to be adding to this thread after reading some of the uninformed drivel from disaffected and/or envious NON EK employees on it, (where are you, 'streamline', haven't heard from you yet?)

My only comment is this: I'm glad to have received any pay rise at all, so I'm not complaining on that point. However, I just wish management could have been honest about it and called it what it was: a 5% payrise for all staff EXCEPT the pilots, for whom it was a 2% payrise and a contractural 3% annual increment.

This won't stop the hundreds of applicants for EK jobs, but it will change the profile of the applicants, which management, who are planning to increase the size of the airline by 600% over the next ten years, don't seem to care about.

[Dessert Aviator]

As a GF Captain I guess I qualify as a total loser !! We have a three percent increment written into our contracts but it has not been paid in the past six years. So for those of you at EK you should count your blessings.

[This message has been edited by Dessert Aviator (edited 09 May 2001).]

[Dessert Aviator]

As a GF Captain I guess I qualify as a total loser !! We have a three percent increment written into our contracts but it has been paid in the past six years. So for those of you at EK you should count your blessings.