FAA Part 135 in EU?!?

[PicMas]

I would like some info about the requirements for operating on an FAA part 135 certificate with base in Europe?

I am aware of the "ceremonial" positions required (DO, CP and DOM).

As there are companies offering N-registrations - and management for European owners, is the same possible for part 135??

The aircraft will be based in europe and only fly in europe.

Does anybody do this? (read: is this at all possible)

Sources of information would be greatly appreciated!

MAS

[Daifly]

It's not possible; you cannot legally run a Part 135 Charter Operation in Europe for hire and reward.

You need to have a JAR AOC instead to fly virtually unrestricted charters within the member states, if you wanted to fly London to Paris, for example, in a FAA Part 135 aircraft you would need to satisfy the British and French authorities that there was no other suitable alternative to fly between the two - that would be pretty difficult! And you would need to do that, so-called "non-objection" requests, for EVERY flight between European countries.

It's possible, but not practical - you'd be better off with a JAR AOC.

[PicMas]

Thanks for clearing that up for me!!

How about this scenario:
Since the customers will be the same 2 possibly 3 companies flying executive staff, would it be a possibility to set up a fractional ownership scheme?

I believe Netjets and the likes operate under part 91 (when N-registered).

[Chilli Monster]

No reason why you shouldn't have a Part 91 operation, especially if the companies concerned are U.S who have some form of recognised U.S connection. Even a shell corporation with a U.S registered address (Delaware is popular) would be acceptable.

[TD&H]

PicMas,

It is possible and feasible to operate N-reg business aircraft in Europe (have been there), though there can be problems with proving the residency status of aircraft and passengers. Size of aircraft can give rise to questions of import duty being paid when landing in certain countries, silly I know! Also there were complications regarding picking up European staff to be carried around in an N-reg aircraft, again silly. Beware of how everything would be paid for the operation of the aircraft, how the companies would be charged for each flight can lead to thoughts of AOC operation and hence needing a European reg aircraft and JAR AOC.

It can be done, but care is needed. What sort of operation, size of aircraft, bases, destinations? It might be appropriate to approach one or two bizjet operators of third party non-EU reg aircraft for advice (names available), don't be surprised to get incoming PM from one or two of them.

[PicMas]

I want to thank you for the very informative input, though I don't think I was being totally clear about the company.

We already have (and operate) an N-registered twin-turbine under part 91, I have on MANY occasions been requested by various authorities to show proof of VAT, noise etc. as all the paperwork is in order this has never presented a problem.

My enquiry is about selling a fraction of the aircraft to another company - The owner and myself would like to see it flying a bit more, him for the shared cost and myself for the turbine time.

The destinations are all in Northern Europe.

I would welcome PM regarding this subject.

Again, thanks for your inputs

[hazehoe]

I think FAR 129 might come in here,it might just be for foreign carriers operating outside the USA on N regestration and not for GA. Not sure,check it out and call the FISDO in Brussels or better call the international field office in New York they will have the answers for the FAR part.

:confused:

[PicMas]

As I read it, FAR 129 only applies to the big guys, +20seats, +7500lbs payload etc - I may be wrong, and will definitely look into it.

[Daifly]

There have always been the "grey-area" N-reg operators in Europe from whom you can buy a share in the aircraft for a day. Not charter therefore? Well, the authorities take some convincing - I think a minimum of 5% ownership is required. But it's really skirting on the edge of the law and the penalities are probably worse than just doing it properly from the start.

However, proper ownership schemes with a few owners, where you fly on the aircraft that you own, can work under the FAA in Europe, but you need to ensure your paperwork's all in place. Martyn Fiddler Associates are good with that side of things if you want to run it by someone who'll stand by you if things get dicey with the authorities!