EK pay rates

[iflyg4]

Was wondering what the average take home pay was for EK fo's? I know what they say is your guarantee, but everyone is complaining about barely making it as an FO at Emirates. I don't understand that. With no housing costs and everything else is paid for, where's the money going to? Is it the cost of living in Dubai? I thought it was ok, nothing unreasonable when I was over there recently. They way I calculated it, you're basically putting that money in the bank except for living expenses. Just need some help figuring it out. Please no b******, I just want the facts. Thanks :bored:

[LHR Rain]

You want no bull@#$% from us and you want to come to work for EK? Your whole life will be full of bull@#$% here.
Anyway expenses are very expensive in Dubai. You got kids? Plan on paying around 7000-10,000 per year per child to educate them.
Food and eating out will cost you plenty.
Don't plan on saving any money the first year you are here. It gets a little better in later years but you won't get rich here.

[specialrider987]

iflyg4:

The money goes pretty fast... you will have normal lifestyle expenses here but they are all "premium". :bored:

Car insurance - very expensive, it's a percentage of the purchase or insured value of your vehicle.

Cable/Sat TV hookup... about 60 USD per month ("57 channels... and nothing on...")

Computer internet connection... 68 USD per month for mediocre service. :ugh:

Phones, whether mobile or home are expensive. Local calls are not free, so although the company pays the basic line charge, everytime you pick up the phone and dial, you are paying...

You'll possibly have to pay for landscaping required on your "company provided" accomodation. This is a bit of a hit and miss thing, it depends on where you get placed. It's unfair, but that's the way it goes at Emirates.

Food - quite expensive here. A small family spends 2-3K AED per month

Children's activities... 500 AED a go... for field trips etc... plus some longer journeys, costing 5-8K AED per child.

School fees at either American School... very expensive. I pay 24000 AED above the company allowance, per child per year! That's more than one months basic salary per child... If you have high expectations from the school system here... be careful. They are "private" in that they charge money, but this is just a convention. They are just like public schools in the US.

Medical insurance supplement for your family as a few hundred AED per month...

It looks great on paper, but the nearest analogy I can think of is that you are living in a company town. Kind of like a coal miner from years ago... you live, eat, breath, sleep, purchase from and spend your paycheck in ... the company town. While I am on the subject, there is a gold-rush mentality to this place, and just like years ago, many men and women have seen their fortunes fade away under the harsh light of day. Dubai isn't really an expatriate experience in traditional terms. You will just be moving to a big, crowded city in the sun. Las Vegas crossed with Miami and Bombay.

Your decision is a tough one. Good luck.

[chinny]

:eek: you forgot the traffic-how could you not mention the TRAFFIC:mad: and then the builing site:ouch:

cc
VTSP

[145qrh]

Not so sure about not saving in the first year LHR, I have been here almost 3 years and still well out of pocket...Never mind the extra I will have to pay to the provident fund to get any way close to my old company pension....

Last few months I have kept all reciepts and totalled them at the end of the month...makes for sobering reading.....without car loan, and going out about once a week
and not shopping at Spinneys I spent almost 15000 dhs and thats without any tickets,holidays,savings,no school fees.Just general day to day living .

Food, insurance, internet,school fees, kids clothes in fact just about everything is very expensive here. Cars are cheap to buy here, but total cost of ownership is about the same as anywhere else....Second hand value of cars is poor,and they dont last as long as they would in temperate climate, maintenance is poor and expensive even at main dealers, insurance is just a rip-off....and , and ...rant over and ..............relax

[616200]

Expensive?Traffic?All true but,unless you're living in east Europe,still quite less than England and any other country in the Eurozone:{

[Muttley Crew]

Computer internet connection... 68 USD per month for mediocre service. :ugh:
Local calls are not free, so although the company pays the basic line charge, everytime you pick up the phone and dial, you are paying...Cable internet access can cost less than $68 USD/month. The 512mbps (I think it is???) package is about $50USD and you can't tell the difference between that and the above-mentioned "double speed" performance. Why? because EVERYthing goes through the proxy server so they can control what you view and access.
Because they don't want you looking at certain things. Or accessing sites that may help you lower your comm costs.
Local calls ARE, indeed, free. International calls make up for it by being amongst the highest rates to/from all other countries that I've ever seen.

[porkandbrew]

Hello!

I recently flew with one F/O that had accumulated a MINUS of 40 000 Dhs in his first year in EK. (Or should I use the term deficit??:) ) He has 3 kids in schools that are almost fully paid for by the company... no extravagant life style according to himself.
Another guy I know is approximately 100 000 Dhs down after 3 years.

May I also mention that a 10% income tax is on the cards. I heard about it on Dubai FM 92 yesterday.

regards,

Pork

[Muttley Crew]

Did the DJ mention whether the 10% rate is for the locals or the expats?

Naturally the locals will not be subjected to the same rate, if any at all.

[145qrh]

At least in the Eurozone you have a choice about the car you drive, the phone company, internet , .You have if you wish a low cost alternative .

In the UK after running 2 cars,mortgage,taxes I was much better off than I am here and that is with about the same take home salary..

Lots of little extras here that are hard to account for...I spend a lot on tickets home and car hire, to get away from the place. Wifes usually do a runner in the summer months, again extra expense, and with DUbai being a popular ( for the moment) holiday destination you can count on lots of friends and family availing themselves of your hospitality..


BBC website article on internet censorship http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5024874.stm
A few thinks about the dear old UA of E, but guess what, its blocked in Dubai...you gotta larf'

[porkandbrew]

Good point MC.

Maybe the tax is for expats only.I don't know.
This may sound strange for people who don't know the Middle East, but it is a fact that expats pay 3 times as much for electricity and water compared to locals.
So, if we pay tax will we get a proper pension???? I doubt it.

Pork

[Muttley Crew]

expats pay 3 times as much for electricity and water compared to localsYeah I can't remember the exact comparison but it is true. You might call that a form of institutionalised and state-condoned discrimination..... in the civilised world.

There would be little point in taxing the locals because the whole point of an income tax (along with all the other taxes imposed in this tax-free place) is to line the pockets of the locals. I wish things worked like that for me, back home.Wifes usually do a runner in the summer months, again extra expenseThis should be under "pros", shouldn't it?

Add the cost of buying drinks for chicks half your wife's age (during summer) to the list of expenses to be endured...

[Straight & Level]

I believe that Kuwait (I think) have started charging 10% income tax to ex-pats. Watch this space for the UAE to follow their lead.:sad:

[max AB]

One would assume if you have to pay tax then you should get some form of representation, ie a vote!...(outside without my hat again...)

G4, when you do your comparison of costs, consider that you will be travelling alot more, you won't be spending your hollidays in a camper around the national parks of the UAE. If you have kids you will paying for their sport etc as most schools only offer limited options and in most cases allow private operators to provide the service. About Dhs 500 per term is about standard for soccer or similar. Your set up cost in the first year will leave you with close to nothing if you have a family. After that it is up to you, there is a pilot's club (courtesy of the pilots) that gets you entry to beach clubs/gyms so no need to buy an expensive club membership. If you play golf then expect to pay.. The temptation is to get the maid and gardener so kiss goodbye to another 1500/month plus annual visa costs. You can get part time maids for 20dhs an hour. (someone help me here I dont have either) The interest free car loan from EK is 1000/month.

[Schnowzer]

I understood, Kuwait are 'studying' 10% income tax!

[calcio11]

Kuwait IS TALKING about a 10% income tax. There economy appears far different than Dubai's. Kuwait is heavily weighted on oil and foreign companies pay 55% tax on profits. They are wanting to REDUCE the burden for foreign investors and hence they are considering the income tax.

As for costs insurance on a $43,000 vehicle is about $140 a month.
Groceries- a lot of stuff is cheaper here, than in the U.S. and
internet costs as stated are more.
I don't see all the "high prices", but maybe it depends are what you are used to.

[Schnowzer]

For what its worth I was a net contributor to Dubai as an F/O. I know others that had a seven year plan and saved every bean that came their way. If I'd done that I'd have been run over by a truck at the airport.

For me, recreation is more expensive. Most things that I do with the kids (particularly in the summer) cost a fair amount of cash. There are the beach hotels and Satwa but not much in between. Most other places in the world there are a range of activities that can be done with a range of costs. Here that isn't true because there just isn't the breadth of choice. Its the same with schools. If you are an american and use the US schools; it costs.

Bottom line for me. I end up going to a 5* hotel and stumping up 700 chips for a meal not because I want an expansive lifestyle but because I don't have a choice. I'd be happier with my flat hat and ferret, drinking Theakstons XB and eating steak and kidney pie at a fifth of the price.

But...I guess thats why we get the big bucks.

[145qrh]

AAhhh Theakstons, what I would'nt give for a nice pint of XB, Best or even an OP (gentlemans farting juice) ...Bottles just dont cut it..

FLowers,Landlord,Titanic,Heather Ale or my fav of all time Deuchars IPA..

You can stick Heineken,Bud,or Stella Artoos....

[chinawladi]

For anybody interested to join EK, read this. :{

The Gulf News is one of the two major newspapers in the UAE,
controlled by the rulers, as almost everything, so the numbers
must be at least correct, if not a little bit softened.........

www.gulfnews.com/business/Business_Feature/10043395.html (http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Business_Feature/10043395.html)

[uplock]

Hey Chinawladi great link has some good info on whats happend here in Dubai

Couple of quotes from theGulf News Article (http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Business_Feature/10043395.html)

In the past 12 months, average price increases were reported, across key areas of expenditure, in the range of 20-30 per cent namely in accommodation (27 per cent), foodstuffs (20 per cent), healthcare (18 per cent), education (20 per cent) and transportation (25 per cent).

David Thatcher, Principal, Career Partners

"Unfortunately, Dubai has inherited a legacy of hiring to the cheapest price, which must change if it is to attract the right calibre of people.

"Spiralling property rents on commercial and domestic premises, inflation as well as infrastructure problems have created a more stressful environment.



http://www.gulfnews.com/images/06/05/30/30_bus_costofliving01_4.jpg

[Cessna1052]

ALL IN DIRHAMS:
Basic - 20250 after the 10% inc.
+ 22 tel allowance
+ layover allowance negligible(unless no food or shopping)
+ overtime pay ( dhs325/hour in excess of 78)
= 20272

LESS every month:
- 3096 car loan
- 3600 monthly Budget(Wife and kids)
- 249 internet connections
- 100 EPC-Emirates pilot club monthly due
- 1012.5 retirement contributions
- 211 cable TV
- 238.33 Medical monthly premium
EQUALS:--------
Dhs. 11765.17 remaining / 3.68 to US$
less - Credit card payments
less - hobbies, sports,vises etc.
--------------------------------------
Equals= xxxxxxx

[Freehills]

Meh - not too bad based on above. I.e you'll survive OK

The question is - what is your premium on going expat? How much extra free cash flow a year over staying at home do you need? 500 US a month? 5000 US a month? 50 US a month? Everyone will have a differing level. For me it is about 40%, but I enjoy living abroad.

Other thing - free housing can be a mixed blessing. If you don't have the financial discipline to save what you would otherwise would have paid for mortgage repayments, you will end up saving less (mortgages are a good way of forcing people to save, who otherwise wouldn't...) Especially if property prices "at home" are going up.

[neilb767]

All Considering re-locating to Dubai... Heed the warnings, they are very accurate.

I dont work for EK, but live in dubai working for another airline as a pilot.

If I were to move here today on my present T + C with a family, I would seriously regret it.

All my other collegues that moved here with families, have bailed and gone back home, I only stayed as I am single.

The cost of living and supporting a family here must be a nightmare. I really dont know how you guys do it, or how you can still survive.

This place is for a single guy, with no forign debt, free will thats it.

As someone put it, its a mining town, all your money spend in the company store, company mall, company pub...NO choices !! and funny how they all seem to be making record profits...:mad:

Heed the warnings, do your homework, dont get here and then tell your kids you made a mistake..think about it.

[knotknowing]

If your dealing in pounds Gents - Don't forget the exchange rate !
Seen it run between 5.2 and 7.2 over the years.
A real bummer if it's 7+ and your UK house has no tennant.:bored:

[145qrh]

3600 dhs for wife and kids ???? Let me know where yoü shop....I spend almost three times that...

We tried a weekly budget of 1000 for food etc, we are now up to 1500 a week and that just covers it...also cost for maid, wifes shopping and school fees take that up to ........ 9000 and then you have provident fund,car loan, credit card billls, bills from back home, and all the other stuff 1052 mentioned.

You may think you spend 3600 pm, but try adding it up honestly at the end of the month, prepare for a shock...

[chinawladi]

I have to back up 145qrh.
Don't think I want to disgruntle possible "relief pilots" to our packed roster.
Just trying to give the real picture, - you won't save nothing whatsoever.

Another example?

http://213.132.44.184/emiratestoday/
click on picture

[Capt Under Pants]

I am after some advice from you all reference a flying position.

I have been put in contact with a company that is offering a salary of $32,500 AED per month, with a rental allowance of AED $130,000 per year, car allowance of AED 1500/month, free medical and dental, furniture allowance and free removal. Also includes 2 business class tickets home/year. This is to be based out of Abu Dubai with working hours of 0700-1400 hrs in summer and 0700-1430 hrs in the winter, 5 days a week.

Can anyone let me know how this compares to other salaries and conditions in the UAE and if living there with a wife, 9 yr old and 1 yr old is affordable?

Cheers

[PRNAV1]

Can some one just tell me where else you can earn that money in your first year?

[Andu]

Wind up, I think.

[PITA]

Do you honestly think that anyone who can meet these qualifacations is a "first year" pilot

Go away you silly person.

[PRNAV1]

Do you honestly think that anyone who can meet these qualifacations is a "first year" pilot

Go away you silly person.

PITA, did you actually read what i wrote..? i think you need to re-think about who you try getting mouthy to before you start writing useless :mad: like that, fool.

I'm saying people are complaining about their jobs for little reasons. As far as i'm concerned you get to fly great types, great destinations, for great money in a new exciting city to be in right now. Granted you have to deal with alot of the problems associated with the Middle-East but all it is is moan, moan, moan!

Take a look at what you have and think again.

[145qrh]

Age 23, flying since 2001/2 ...Hey guys we should shut and listen when PRNAV speaks...HE is the font of knowledge of all things Emirates...

Sonny boy, when you grow up come back and listen to the big boys..until then pipe down..

[millerscourt]

PRNAV1 sounds like that that Canadian schoolboy bound_for dubai. Just take a look at his previous posts. I don't as a rule pick up on spelling as we can all hit the wrong key and English is not the first language of many people but his spelling is atrocious and text is that of a 13year old and certainly not one of 23!

[PRNAV1]

Here we go...haha! love it. The same old story, got nothing better to say other than look at his age and check out his spelling, yeah because that makes me a good pilot.

Age 23, flying since 2001/2 ...Hey guys we should shut and listen when PRNAV speaks...HE is the font of knowledge of all things Emirates...
Sonny boy, when you grow up come back and listen to the big boys..until then pipe down..
I bet you lot are the happiest people to have around. I'm guessing you weren't 23 once...if you were why do you have such a bad impression of me. was you a :mad: at 23...? Sounds like it. Can't look after your kids, don't have none, can't pay for car insurance, don't have a car, simple as! don't sit and moan about it. Don't like your job then leave!
Spelling and grammer! haha! check yourself out...
PRNAV1 sounds like that that Canadian schoolboy bound_for dubai. Just take a look at his previous posts. I don't as a rule pick up on spelling as we can all hit the wrong key and English is not the first language of many people but his spelling is atrocious and text is that of a 13year old and certainly not one of 23!
bound_for dubai What is that..? Dubai capital D! and under score???
sounds like that that Canadian schoolboy ... Like that that! Very good. Well done mate. :ok:

[Tail Rota]

PRNAV1

I have to say the boys have got right.:ok:

You are a muppet mate:}

Either your daddy works for EK and you have managed to get onto his computer while he is on a layover .............or you are playing too much flight sim 2004, and have now emersed your self completely into your pilot fantasy by posting here at the the "Proffesional Pilots Forum".

Good try 10 out of 10 for initiative. :O and another 10 out of 10 for the bull:mad: t

if I was you I would get myself a european breeding video and start thinking about all those hosties you are going meet when you finish flight school.:E


Hi cessna 1052.
Great post......our food bill is a little higher, but the numbers look good. I have day care for two at 5000dhm per term/ child...so thats an extra 30000dhm per year for both. .....so education allowance doesnt kick in until 4yrs of age. schools start at 3yrs of age........ at roughly 25000dhm/year per child

No problem if you are single.....mmmmm..:cool: now theres an idea. .....what would I save if I sold the wife and children.....:E

off to market......"wife and kids for sale .....wife and kids for sale ....only one owner.....wife hardly used...no panel damage in good working order".."

TR:ok:

[CaptSkipper]

Seriously what the hell is wrong with a lot of people on here??

So prnav asked one question and got slated and then everyone joined in. Brilliant from a bunch of people who are supposed to be professional you are definitely not acting in this manor. Then someone decides to pick up on his spelling and check his history..oooh score! Grow up, this is ridiculous.

You are all obviously bitter twisted old men with nothing to do but whinge and then have a go at someone younger then you. Believe me age is not a major factor when it comes to maturity or people skills as you have all carefully demonstrated. The truth of the matter is is if you were all happy and content with your lives you would not have to carry on this way.

Playground and insecure are words that springs to mind.

And if you really want to get your jollys then go through my post and pick out whatever you like, if that makes you happy then i am happy to have brought some joy to your lives.

simple things.......

you know the rest.

[Watchdog]

Hear Hear! :D

[Tail Rota]

Ok Capt Skipper

Good point....but consider this.

Did you even read what PRNAV1 had to say. Age has nothing to do with it as you have pointed out. He is probably 90yrs old living in a villa in the back of Sharjah somewhere.

The point is this thread is about EK pay issues. If you want to comment on something like EK pay issue's.........is it too much to ask the poster or postee to be reasonably informed. otherwise you take the risk of being "slated" as you put it.

I am not angry.....I am not old.......and I am a professional. :ok:

But here on pprune you can see a few professionals venting, discussing or informing on isues that matter to them either as individuals or as a group.

Maybe somewhere in all the madness thats exists in the middle east someone may read some of this for what it is:O ......... and realise..... to get real pilots, to fly real aeroplanes safe and efficiently you need to pay real money.

That capt skipper is the issue with EK salary.

TR:E

[PRNAV1]

Well said Capt skip.
Makes me laugh how they go on..
Tail Rota, funny stuff mate........."wife and kids for sale .....wife and kids for sale ....only one owner.....wife hardly used...no panel damage in good working order".." You're so funny, you here all week?
Think i have quite a few more thousand hours then any of you had at 23 and twice the sense. All gained through hard work and countig my blessings for the money i earn and the job i'm privilaged to have.
One thing's for sure, i deffinetly love the way you lot act and you all have kids! haha! think you need to learn how to grow up from them rather than you teaching them because the way i've seen you all respond to me is unbelievable for grown men.
No go meet for tipples at the local public house with your dolly bird wifes and talk about how little Harry is doing at Ruggers and how Isebella is now taking Ballet lessons as it's Pimms o'clock.


.......and I am a professional. Keep telling youself that mate. Sounds like you love the sound of your own voice too much boss.

Ok., now feel free to slag me off then chat about how you can't afford to pay for solid gold gear nobs in you new BMW or how the Family can only go 10 holidays instead of 30 this year...

see ya! :ok:

[CaptSkipper]

Tail Rota there is no question about what this thread is about, as you have said, EK pay rates.

However even before PRNAV had the chance to comment about whether he knew anything on the subject everybody pounced. He made a comment and it was neither derogatory or offensive he was simply saying lifes not actually that bad.

My problem here is as so called professionals why do people feel the need to ridicule others, professional to me means, mature, well rounded, skilled and someone who would rather strive to see other peoples points of view and comment accordingly. Not mob them and them pick them to peices and then wonder why they get angry. Especially as parents these are attributes we try and teach our children and if people on this forum cannot master them themselves then it is a sorry state of affairs.

I dont think PRNAV ever said that you didnt deserve to get paid more or even better, but again this is the case for pilots all over the word. we are underpaid in some circumstances as are nurses, firemen etc. To get real pilots you need real pay agreed but you do not need aggression.

Do you not think though Tail that if all the mob that replied didnt have some kind of bitterness they would have replied in such a blood thirsty way?

[Capt Under Pants]

Mate, my question was no wind up It is a check and training position with an aviation outfit. Was told that everything was covered (i.e. house allow, med, dental etc) and salary would be $130,000 Australian dollars.

Therefore would need to pay for kids schooling (expensive I believe), living expenses, maid (if wanted one) etc.

Was told recently by someone we know that lived in Dubai, that Abu Dubai was very strict and needed liquor licence to purchase a small amount of alcohol? Did not recommend going there.

From the few comments its sounds the deal is ok? Asked question here because you guys were all talking about pay and conditions in the UAE and thought people on this topic would have a good idea.

[kiwi_r4]

Some words of wisdom by a muppet. Nice one TR:ok:

I am not angry.....I am not old.......and I am a professional. :ok:


:D

This was actually a good thread until......

[sec 3]

You can purchase alcohol from the duty free, bring it through and nobody will hassle you in AUH. Only very few of the guys here have liquor licences:E Its alot more liberal here than most people think

[Capt Under Pants]

Thanks for reply mate:ok:

[max AB]

Capt Undies, if you compare to a first year FO at EK, the package appears pretty good. Factor in schooling for the 9 year old, in DXB this would be 25-32K /year, don't know about AUH but similar I assume. The 9 year old will want to do sport, no community clubs or sausage sizzles here, so expect to pay for that.

[Tail Rota]

Oooooohhhhhh Guys guys guys!!

I am a very busy man but have a few mins to reply.

Give me a break......I didnt mean to offend anyone here:{
it was my opinion and mine only.

I dont think I was too hard on the poor boy .......was I Capt Skipper?

PRNAV1 ....I read your reply and it looks a little jumbled ...however I got the point. ......

this forum has been filled with info about EK and its terms and conditions. If you are so experienced at 23......then put an application in and join. see for yourself what it is like.

From what I have read so far (its only been two posts)..... you are perfect for the job in hand. They cant get anyone of your callibre and I think EK would snap you up in an instant. "You are a very rare breed in aviation my boy:E "

But remember

....its people in aviation who are prepared to fly planes for nothing.......or even worse...for anything they can get ..........that has ruined the industry I joined a few years back.

The industry is full of guys who have been beaten by failing airlines, marriages failing, girl friends leaving , wives taking half of everything and in some cases all of the kids....and in a few cases its the 3rd or 4th so called trophy wife.

This has meant that my furture earnings, terms and conditions as an airline pilot have been eroded because they will work for anything they can get....its called survival.....this reality is very dissapointing.:{

I would have told someone like you, to stay out of aviation and go to Uni. complete a law degree, specailising in Airline pilot divorce settlements....you would be a very rich man in no time:cool:

I am making the most of my character building experience here in the ME and I have to say its been a great laugh so far.:O

Keep safe guys and dont lose that sense humour

TR:ok:

ps I have missed you kiwi....hows the husband.:}