++++ LUFTHANSA: 96 % VOTED PRO STRIKE ++++

[Charly]

YES!!!!!

96 % of the Pilots at Lufthansa voted for unlimited strike!

We will start with 24 hr Strikes every Thursday with the option of spontanious strikes on short notice (via SMS and E-Mail, yes, we´re organized!)!

A first taste of strike will be tomorrow from 0000 LT till 1200 LT (GER).

Heartly Greetings from Germany

Charly

[This message has been edited by Charly (edited 03 May 2001).]

[Notso Fantastic]

Good Luck Boys! We're pinning our hopes on you to lead the way! Unfortunately the Brits are showing spinelessness these days. Go for it!

[xsimba]

Well done chaps and good luck. Hope you get everything you've asked for.

[The Resistance]

Good luck, from all of us here at CX.

[crjo]

Good luck to all Lufthansa Pilots!!

Delta and United are showing the way.

We at Air France are keeping a close eye on these events, as we will be joining the fight in a few month...

keep it up !!

[repapips]

Good luck from my Filipino friends (Airline Pilots Association of the Philippines).

Nip scabs in the bud, before they surface.

[fly4fud]

Go for it and hold tight, this is the only way!!!

Crossair pilots are with you ;)

------------------
... cut my wings and I'll die ...

[zzz]

just out of interest, are you boys at Midland supporting your Lufthansa colleagues

cheers zzz

[BavarianBoy]

Good luck Lufty guys and gals, the rest of Europe is watching carefully!! Maybe the rest of us will learn to follow Delta and United lead.... or having read another thread that is hot at the moment maybe BA CC union can negotiate for all of us, more chance os success!!

Seriously though, hope you are successful and that at the end of it all a decent working relationship will exist to make lots of cash for all!!
As someone once told me though, if you want a guarantee buy a toaster and if you want loyalty go buy a dog!!

[Richthofen]

Viel Erfolg undd Respekt für Euer Standing und Solidarität. Ihr macht es !

Die Rot/Weißen VC´ler

[Spad]

96% in favour of strike action. Hmmmm.... that's one percent more than the Australian vote for strike action in early 1989. Good luck to you, ladies and gents... and here's hoping your weakest links are made of sterner stuff than the Oz/Auslanders if the company or the German government starts playing dirty and the going gets tough.

[FO Nigetrussoxide]

Great news - best wishes.
Remember, in life you get what you negotiate not what you deserve.

[domb]

good luck to you all at lufty-I'm encouraged by your show of solidarity and hope that it's something that can be replicated here at BA and else where in the not too distant future.

[Artus]

Good luck to all of you. We're all with you at Air France
We must remember that all the fights fought this year are decisive for the future of our profession. we must keep together.

[Fly_by_night]

Good luck !!

What is very efficient is to go on strike for 2 or 3 hours, without any notice. The airline's operation turns into a big mess, and you don't lose any money ! You do fly your sectors, just with a slight delay...

[Kaptin M]

Best of luck, from another Australian '89er.

We made the same mistake - giving the company years of next to no salary increases, then come "catch-up", the b@st@rds want it ALL their way! A lesson for the future: Don't give management an ounce of goodwill - they'll only treat the offer as weakness on the part of the employees!!

Good advice from repapips....."Nip scabs in the bud, before they surface."

[Charly]

Strike was succesful!

Up to 290 flights were cancelled!

Lufthansa management now has an improved offer, negotiations on Monday.
Our strikes continue until there is actually a deal, that means strikes go on paralell with the negotiations.

Thanx for the support!!

[exeng]

Well done and good luck to you all. We in the UK are watching closely.


Regards
Exeng

[Herb]

Excellent!!
Good luck from the Fragrant Harbour. Wish our boys and girls were up to it!

[CaptSensible]

A little birdie in the Lufty telesales office tells me things were 'like crazy all day'.

Good luck guys...lead the way!

[halo]

Well done DLH guys!!! Keep it up!!

Lets hope that UK ATCers can follow your example!!!

[CargoRat2]

Was watching ZDF a few mins ago. The German public didn't seem too impressed with the strike. (An observation, not a criticism). Joe Public, from what I could see, thinks your actions to be outrageous.

Now before someone starts throwing mud, that was off German news this evening. Nothing to do with any of my opinions.



------------------
rgds Rat

[wonderbusdriver]

Cargorat:

This typically German attitude doesn´t bother us anymore (that´s what´s rather new)- We´ve got nothing to lose, and we´ll keep the pressure on.

[Kaptin M]

CNN gave a similar slant to the story, CR2, by interviewing p!ssed-off pax....."I haven't had holidays for 2 years, and NOW look at how my plans are disrupted!", and "I drove for 3 hours to come to the airport - Lufthansa didn't tell me a thing about this."

I think we've ALL come to expect the usual "greedy, over-paid - it's an easy job" comments that invariably are aired by the press, and usually promoted by the airlines. However, the truth of the matter is, aviation is a cyclical industry, and pilots' wages - worldwide - were suppressed and even reduced mercilessly, when there was a trough several years ago, and we can expect to get the same treatment again, down the road.

The increases now, are not only a partial recouping of that lost income, but also payment for present and future increased productivity, and have been achieved by negotiation.

[CargoRat2]

KaptM/Wonderbus
No argument; been in this biz since '89. Just thought it was appropriate to mention German TV reporting (Didn't bother with CNN, they keep repeating themselves hour after hour after, well you get the idea).

Ich wuensche euch viel glueck.

------------------
rgds Rat

[loaded1]

Thank you DLH crews for showing us the only viable response to the American union-buster-style management techniques that we in European airlines now all live with.

I hope my colleagues in BA will be as resolute-we are going to need to be.

[Ignition Override]

When we went on strike in the US about four years ago, it lasted two full weeks. It is a shame (schade) that we were not allowed to begin it with "micro" or "mini-strikes". Are they much more effective (wirksam?)?

And our differences were mostly about "scope language" - ironically,we were NOT very far apart on pay and retirement. By the way, the previous Delta Airlines pilot contract, according to our MEC's written contract comparison, had no language to deal with, therefore no protection from, corporate "fragmentation": z.B., if Delta Flight Operations and jets were bought and sold off in pieces (von einem weissen Hai gefressen)-no pilot jobs! Maybe this was improved in their new tentative contract.



[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 05 May 2001).]

[wonderbusdriver]

New "offer" on Mondays May 7th.

It will be "better" (the first one can´t be considered an offer) than the first, but nowhere near what we want.

Expect the next str*ke on Thursday May 10 from 0000LT to 2400LT.

[floyd55]

go for it lads and stick at it

[Airtalk]

Thank you, partners in the skies. We need and appreciate your solidarity and moral support.
Don`t stop....

[Ignition Override]

Viel Gluck dort druben!

[heavydane]

Keep it up LH!

We at SAS are watching very close as we are headed down the same road very soon!!

time to claim the price
Heavydane

[tarjet fixated]

Best of luck from your italian colleagues!

[rock_the_tower]

Good luck from Switzerland.
However, don't lose common sense and think about the long term implications of such a huge pay rise. We all know it's a very cyclic business ! :)

rtt

[repapips]

My Filipino friends have been raring to say: "If only they knew about pprune in June 98. They might have gotten some good ideas & morale boosts from you guys. Their strike could have been a success. But they had more than 96% "YES" votes, more than 98% actually.
Well, it's not yet over till now. Hope we all get what we want in the end."
"SCABS ARE THE WORST SCUM OF THE EARTH! (And I'm being kind to animals.)"

[Alien Shores]

From your friends at British Airways, "Good Luck!" Stick in there.

Alien

[Charly]

Thank you!!

We appreciate it a lot!

Latest info:

Since yesterday Management and VC (our Union) are negotiating. Managm. has put forward a new offer.
Seems to be not good enough. Union has stated in a press conference (3 hrs ago) that we shall prepare for our already announced 24 hr strike on Thursday.

It will turn out to be quite silent over Germany that day!

Greetings from Krautland ;)

Charly

[Fat Tony]

Good Luck Guys and Gals...
Lead the way for us all. It's time for a change...

Fat Tony (BA)

[KADS]

Well, it was very calm and empty at MUC today... :)
What is the latest now?

[Few Cloudy]

So 30 odd % is reasonable is it?

The SR pilots agreed to a cut of 5% to save their airline.

No-one on this thread has shown owt but greed.

Of course it's easier to cheer the others than to take action yourself.......

[KADS]

Few cloudy -
Hit the search engine on the subject and find out the reasoning behind the requested pay rise and then judge if it is reasonable. You can't just look at the percentage without knowing all the facts. Judge for yourself...
I for one think it is more than reasonable, hopefully it will be trend setting...
Good luck y'all...

[This message has been edited by KADS (edited 10 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by KADS (edited 10 May 2001).]

[wonderbusdriver]

few cloudy:

SR is still above LH paywise.
SR management screwed up - pilot costs aren´t the cause for their unprofitability.

LH-Pilots agreed to an average 28% paycut in 1992 to save the airline.
We´re still not back on 1991/92 levels.
DLH made 1 Billion Euro profit last year. Years before were similar.

typos...

[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 11 May 2001).]

[LevelFive]

Way to go Vereinigung Cockpit. 96%. Yes. You are organized and more importantly UNITED.

Good luck to you all.

From a Southwest pilot in Texas.

[Cisco Kid]

Good luck !I admire your cojones ,long term effects be damned; the Swissair 5% cut won´t make any difference to piss-poor management,this action will weed out the inept at "upper" levels..First shoot all the bean counters.. Yours aye Cisco..

[Fledermaus]

How was it yesterday?

FRA must have been very calm....

[wonderbusdriver]

It went very good.

Germany was quiet.

Ca. 1000 flights didn´t take place.
LH floated rumours that str*kefront is falling apart, more crews than expected flew etc. - Just propaganda.
Even some CFG management-pilots didn´t fly and got kicked out of the office (we´ll see for how long).

VC press conference at 1100LT.

Thanks for the support.

[quickturnaround]

Very good luck to you all, keep up solidarity, united you stand, divided you fall!!

[Charly]

Support from all over the world:

Australians
Austrians
British
French
Hong Kong
Phillipines
Scandinavians
Swiss
US Americans

This is just great!

As wonderbusdriver allready has said! The strike was a full success.

Greetings from Krautland

[Meatbomber]

Charly,

I guess you and your collegues are thrilled about what's going on .. i would kindly ask you to stop and think about your collegues on the ground for a few minutes and what their thoughts about this are ..

This whole issue is cutting a huge gap between Ground prsonell and Flight Crews (your CAs geting a rise too?)

We've been at the same point just 1 year ago at Lauda...

MB
Powerplant Engineer

[wonderbusdriver]

We´re aware!

The situation is management´s fault, not our´s or your´s. They didn´t read the signs - just like Niki.
They let this thing run out of control and now they have to deal with it.

The CAs and groundpers are represented by Ver.Di. (the largest union in the world!)
Groundpers has a different contract from CAs - why I don´t know (rumour has it, that many groundpers think crews are overpaid and underworked anyway) - big UNION POLITICS I guess.
So now Ver.Di is scared sh@tless, that there members will clobber them for the last contract. (And they get the head-negotiator suddenly appointed chief-of-personell at LSG!!)

Besides that, let´s just cut this teutonic envy and jealousy, please.

[QNH1013]

Support from us here in Malaysia!

Hope you get the deal you are all looking for.

[Few Cloudy]

Wonderbus driver,

Thanks for the facts - that puts things in perspective, so good luck from me to.

[Charly]

Hi Meatbomber!

CAs are demonstrating solidarity.

Ground Personell is utilized by management against us. Pretty sad thing.

But we know, that we are right, and our wages are not a democratical topic.

By the way: The way pilots are treated at Lauda is unsafe!

Greetings
Charly

[next in line]

If it is of any interest to LH pilots, on the day of last week's strike, I operated a scheduled service to a Gernman airport. I was asked by my airline's customer staff if I could carry commercial pax on the flight deck. I curteously declined.

She then got v upset and said that there was chaos in the terminal with our own airline having overbooked pax, despite knowing about the strike in advance. I declined again.

She then got even more upset and said that all our other airline's Capts had been carrying commencial pax. I declined for a thrid time. What other Captains do is of marginal interest to me but given the recent change to our Flight Crew Orders, the carriage of commercial pax on the flight deck can be construed to be 'verboten'.

I did however tell her that if there were any airline staff, I would be happy to cary them which is indeed what I did.

But, it's working! Don't give up!

[smith]

Bravo! next in line

[sudden twang]

well until we are allowed to buy beers from the caterers in germany again they do not get any support from me anyhow .

[wonderbusdriver]

The caterers work for LSG/Skychefs who happen to have a new chief of personnel - the head of the negotiating commitee for Ver.di (the union), who managed to work out a whopping 3,5% on a 14 month contract...(as you´ve read further up)

Don´t get on anybody´s case, please, if you can.- Most of those people are fully aware, that we are NOT endangering their jobs, but are instead 100% p@ssed at their union (if they are members at all!).

If anything "Joe-regular" is just somewhat confused be management and union propaganda.
A few people are leaving "anti-pilots" notes in the cockpits, but the majority is behind us - They just don´t speak up!

Please just work with them as you always would.

Sorry I couldn´t pay for the beers;-) Beer without additives is much better anyway.

We know most pilots are looking how we do, and we´re surely doing our best.
Gotta be patient now.



[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 26 May 2001).]

[Dr Tre]

Recently was sat around the table listening to how marketing/ finance dept. thought it was wonderful that we were flying Lufthansa pax hoping that we would convert one or two.....wonderful until it was then pointed out that the shoe might be on the other foot soon.....

Keep going guys - we're with you.

[screwjack]

So Wonderbusdriver tell me what will happen if Mr. Genscher the arbitra(i)tor (- maybe concerned about the development of his own shares in the company) will propose something like 17 %. Can you still say "no" ???

Further I believe your union-folks do not perform so well when it comes to pr for their issue. Checked their webpage recently, not much out there. Would be nice and maybe better to understand for stupid journos and normal people if there would be some info (straight and simple in the wording). Specially about the historic development of this dispute which dates back (-if my memory serves well) into the early 90's ?!
And: little hint/tip: why don't they show the salary increase for Lufthansa's top management over the last "fat" years - compared to others and yours? Didn't they get any...???

Cheers
screwjack

[wonderbusdriver]

-"...Can you still say "no" ???"

Yes!
DLH can say no - very unlikely to happen.
The pilots´committee can say no - remotely possible.
The DLH-VC-pilots can vote "NO" (less than 50% voting "YES") on the proposal - we´ll have to see...

Could all start again after a "NO".

- "Further I believe your union-folks do not perform so well when it comes to pr for their issue."

This has been the subject of much internal discussion. Don´t want to get into details.
All I have to say is, it´s a very small organization compared to other unions.

- "Checked their webpage recently, not much out there. Would be nice and maybe better to understand for stupid journos and normal people if there would be some info (straight and simple in the wording).

See answer above.

"Specially about the historic development of this dispute which dates back (-if my memory serves well) into the early 90's ?!"

They have some charts, but they´re in German.
I had tried to explain them in a post a few weeks back:
http://www.vcockpit.de/pages/tarif/dlhkonzern/Pressecharts.html
I had some ideas myself about press releases in english etc., but I´m not on the negotiating committee.

"And: little hint/tip: why don't they show the salary increase for Lufthansa's top management over the last "fat" years - compared to others and yours? Didn't they get any...???"

"But that´s not our style is it?!"
Actually info pertaining to that, was in the weekly "Focus" last week.
They got some nice increases, but aren´t being paid "world-class" either.

Since I´m not the speaker for VC, I´ll try to hold back my personal comments a bit.
Maybe I can give you more analysis and insight from the center of things, after this is over.




[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 28 May 2001).]

[Charly]

Hi Screwjack!

There is an "open letter to the passengers" and an open letter "to ground and cabin crew". These two pretty much bring it to the point. Downloadable "pdf" format.

As to management pay increases, its pretty interesting, that "to reach an international industry level" management has increased their sallaries about 40% (I think) in the last 3 years or so...

Lets wait, what will happen. Our last strategy is still waiting to be performed.
ESCALATION! Striking for days in a row....

Charly

[wonderbusdriver]

The "open letters" he is refering to are only in German unfortunately, but you people here already know the contents.
If you have a translator (sorry folks, I don´t have the time) go to:

http://www.vcockpit.de/pages/tarif/tarifaktuell.html

and view them in HTML.

found my old post, too with the links to the charts:


hourly pay (!) development since 1991 compared to inflation and average hourly pay ("Durchschnitt AN Einkommen") in Germany:


http://www.vcockpit.de/pages/tarif/dlhkonzern/Vergl_zu_Durchschnittseink.doc

average blockhours flown in 1999:

http://www.vcockpit.de/pages/tarif/dlhkonzern/Jahresarbeitsleistung.doc

monthly pay (same salary - that´s why it´s flat at first - but more flying!) development since 1991 compared to inflation and average pay ("Durchschnitt AN Einkommen") in Germany):

http://www.vcockpit.de/pages/tarif/dlhkonzern/Erhoeg_ohne_Strukturveraend.doc

Back then we agreed to a pay cut of ca. 28% on the hourly rates, because DLH was in need of cash.
We were "promised" to have that put back to "normal" once company was "working" again.
DLH has been quite profitable for a few years now, and the promise just never materialized.

Basis for the demands are the results of a benchmark-study conducted by VC and DLH in two seperate working groups during the last year
Both (!!) found out, that we make ca. 28% less on average than our competitors/ similar airlines.
(These charts are not for the public...)
They didn´t even factor in taxes, cost of living etc., which would have made the gap look even bigger.



[This message has been edited by wonderbusdriver (edited 28 May 2001).]

[hailstone]

arbitration was called for on wednesday two weeks ago and h-d genscher named as the main arbitrator same day.
it was said somewhere that the arbitration talks should yield within two weeks, otherwise VC, if unhappy with the way that the talks progress, might go back to strikes.

does anybody know what has been happening behind the close doors between lh and vc ?

[wonderbusdriver]

They haven´t let anything out.

I talked to one of the negotiators last week - He didn´t say a word about what´s going on or even where they are.

It´s definitely tough for the VC-people because ver.di is sill putting on big pressure behind the scenes.

Expect some proposal numbers in week at the latest. That´s all I´m quite sure of.

[Charly]

Arbitration talks completed?

German TV has reported, that Mr. Genscher has worked out an arbitration-offer which the negotiators are studying right now.

The decision by the two parties (LH-management and the pilots-union VC) concerning the offer is expected tomorrow morning (0700 UTC).

Exciting....
Hope it wont be dissapointing...

Will keep you informed
Charly

[wonderbusdriver]

It´s a tentative agreement, that still has to be approved by 50% of the DLH-VC-members!

Yearly raise in % will be around DL-numbers over duration of the contract.

There´s a catch, however.

Details tommorrow after the official release, or I´ll be beheaded...

[hailstone]

spokeslady has announced a press conference at fra airport for 1300 local time.
we'll see