pay to fly, no way!

[propilot007]

Who can you work for with out paying for endorsements training etc? It seems all the airlines want slave labour you simply work to pay off your training and endorsement costs and then get a demotion in 2 years time.:yuk: Pity I enjoy flying but slavery is not an option, i believe the more hobbie pilots that jump on board the worse the it will get till your full time job will be a lot more like your ab initio days with a per hour bill at the end of it.
:ugh:
W

[Dropt McGutz]

I guess there is always Qantas and Rex.

[Aussie]

Dont forget OConnor Airlines in Adelaide too

Aussie

[404 Titan]

Or leaving Australia all together. Australia really is a back water when it comes to Aviation. I personally found it refreshing leaving.

[sunny77]

Yes, 404 Titan is correct, you can always go o/s. But if you don't mind flying turbo props, Australia still has the RFDS, although not all of the sections are the same. They are good employers, pay is not very good, operate mostly new equipment and training standards are (generally) fairly high. Lots of ugly shift work though, and the hours are not too valuable because most employers see it only as a KingAir or PC12 and therefore not jet hours or RPT (although in reality they are excellent hours indeed). Iconic Australian job though!
What about Sunshine Express ??
Even the corporate companies are asking for the endorsement on type before starting now. The times have changed.

It will be interesting to see if the industry maintains this current focus on pilots paying for endorsements; there is real evidence of a reduction in the supply of pilots.
The helicopter industry still seems to endorse their pilots at company expense.
From a business point of view, it is a no-brainer to pass the expense of endorsements onto the pilots, however Qantas and notable others prefer to do their own training to ensure standardisation from the outset. If I were an insurer (and I am not obviously) I would prefer the company to do the endorsing.

[Captain Sand Dune]

The ADF don't charge for endorsements. Not money any way - just a few years of your time.:E

404 has a point. If you really want to make a go of this aviation thing, don't confine your horizons to Australia. The 6 1/2 years I spent outside the country were quite rewarding - not only in the financial sense.:)

[pakeha-boy]

007...you will have stirred the bees nest on this one,,....and it has been dissected on many occassions,... there will be two schools of thought.....those (like me) who will never pay for training costs,because "real Airlines" understand that(training) this is a cost of doing buisness,and there are those who will prostitute themselves for their own selfish glory.....

Bring it on boys!!!!! weve been here before...remember to be nice as "the WOO" is likely to close it down if you do not play nice(FW,s)

Remember,...if you cant say something nice,at least be sarcastic!!!!PB

[adam210]

up until recently, i spoke to somebody at Flight Training Adelaide they were looking for instructors,

however they were charging $4000 for the induction, yes they got told were to stick it. who in their right mind would pay that much for a check ride ????????????????????? :yuk:


these cxnts should blow me before i give them that much.

[Aussie]

I couldnt agree more with 404 Titan.

Theres more out there than the GA world of Aus.

Aussie

[disco_air]

they were charging $4000 for the induction

Holy $h!+!!! :yuk:

Sounds worse than aerospace, bk!

these cxnts should blow me before i give them that much

would have to be a bloody good one too for $4k!

A certain quote from Beverley Hills Cop quote comes to mind.....

"5 Dollars???? Man I can get blown for 5 dollars!"

...Disco :rolleyes:

[182days]

Hey guys, could anybody older and wiser shed some light as to why FTA would charge $4000 to do a course which ppl have already done? is it a money making scheme? Surely this isn't the way forward for instructor emploment!

[Oktas8]

$4000 cash up front or represented by bonded employment for a period of months?

There is a big difference, although not everyone will see it... :hmm:

O8

[182days]

From what i've heard from ppl its up front with no guarantee of employment at the completion of the course. any opinions???

[ampk]

If you could afford a Porche 911 turbo would yuo buy it.
If you can pay for the endorsement would you? after all you payed to learn to fly in the first place. ( Is it like gettin aircon option as if it is an option now)
If you come from money it is not important but if you dont?
& I dont so being a LAME Id spend 4Gs on the other option.. If i had it.

[rmcdonal]

$4k is getting close to half an instructor rating. Bugger that.
But then on a different note:
Why should a company pay for your endorsment on type when they can just as easly find a pilot who has one? What kind of return for their money are they going to get out of you for that? Are you going to then stick around for the next few years to make it worth their money? Or just collect your 500 multi command and move on?
I hope you're not a 300hr pilot who just wants it all put on a plate for them.
(not quite sure who im aiming that last comment at)
:ouch:

[ThoughtCrime]

ampk

... that has got to be the stupidest analogy i've ever heard.

TC

[ampk]

Ok mate take your hit.


Bottom line Ive meet a lot of GA guys and the guys that make it at the end of the day are the natural flyers who do it the hard way generally off thier own back.

Personality & hard work beats bucks & ratings

[CashKing]

Money talks bull**** walks.................

[ampk]

guess you walk a lot cash Queen:ugh:

[ThoughtCrime]

ampk

Bottom line Ive meet a lot of GA guys and the guys that make it at the end of the day are the natural flyers who do it the hard way generally off thier own back.

That doesnt even make sense (or is barely relevant and just poorly worded, one of the two)

Its about companies not paying for training staff, something that would be seen as ridiculous in other industries! :ugh:

TC

[ampk]

Are you realy trying to compare this to a real world.

Sorry we all want to live in outer space if poss
Sorry mate just tryin to tell you what Ive lernt in the last 20 years of GA.

[pakeha-boy]

ampk........20 yrs in GA???? Yours posts reveal that,and you should stick to GA,as you know absolutely nothing about Commercial aviation and its training aspects....your forte is GA,pay for your flying because thats what GA pilots like yourself have to do......Those of us who fly for the Major airlines,should not have to pay for our training,simply because we are that airlines assets,we make them money,and in return the training they give me is a direct result of the costs involved in that relationship.

I have to do 6 monthly Sim checks,as required by the feds,they dont make me pay for that,they pay me to attend.As with being hired,you should not have to pay for that training either,it is a buiness relationship and those costs are theirs not mine....

I am part owner of a C-185,I pay for my own checks and rides,so I do know what GA pilots pay......and if you are a commercial pilot,..you have missed the plot!!!!!reading your posts makes me want to spit the dummy...PB

[bushy]

The supply and demand situation is such that there is an "oveflow" of newbies, with or without instuctor ratings. Many new instructos are expected to beat the bushes, and find their own students in order to get some work for themselves. So the oveflow inceases, and things get worse.
One of the best things Prune does is povide feedback from those in the system, to those who consider joining it.
A very bright light on the horizon is the possibility of training real oveseas airline pilots, like CHINESE etc. If we do it right, and our govt stops intefering.

[Cloud Cutter]

I've just realised that the only (scheduled) airline in NZ that charges for a rating is the Australian owned one (now that Freedom aren't recruiting seperately). :eek: (unless i've overlooked one).

007, If you want a reagional T/P job, you may want to concider coming over this way.