Working in Europe? [Archive]

run

23rd Aug 2004, 19:02

I have a problem. I am a Danish citizen and am currently living in Denmark after a 4 year tour in the States and because I have been here for a year I have to turn in my Green Card.
Most of the companies in the States require you to have established authorization to work in the United States before applying, but if I reapply for a Green Card I have to move to the States withing 6 months after the application gets approved. In these days you are far from guarantied that you get an interview withing that time limit and there is even less guarantie that you have a job within that timeframe. On top of that every application for a Green Card is to say the least a hazzle.

What should I do? I don't see quitting my well paid job in Denmark before getting another as an option.

My wife is an American citizen and getting the Green Card is a formality, but quite a hazzle. Is it likely any of the companies will accept an application without work permit if I explain that I can get it pretty easy? Anybody else been in my shoes?

Gerard123

25th May 2006, 17:47

Hi All.

I've read LASORS etc. and know how to convert my ICAO license to a JAA/JAR (?) version. But I'd like to know if there's any chance anywhere in Europe or therabouts that work could be found? I've heard most airlines in the UK want you to be a resident first. To get that I believe it takes 5 years even if you marry a Brit. Is it the same elsewhere ? Could one find a good job in a country like Spain, Netherlands or Eastern Europe for example ?

It's not my be all and end all solution, just an option I'm investigating.

Thanks for any info.

peeprune

26th May 2006, 08:28

you can get UK permanent residency immediatley if you marry someone with an EU passport. This (in my case) allows unrestricted work in the UK only though.
So I am not able to work anywhere in Europe. Most companies I've inquired with will not sponsor...but hey...each case is diff right?
:)

captjns

26th May 2006, 09:31

You need to contract an emloyment contracting agency such as PARC, Direct Personel, Brookfield Aviation. They can give you a great deal of information about work permit requirements, employment contracts, immigration attorneys... etc.

Gerard123

26th May 2006, 11:40

Thanks for the help guys

On speed on profile

26th May 2006, 11:43

What are your credentials = ATPL?? and type. Hours: Total and Multi Crew Types with 500+ hours on type.

Edinburgh

26th May 2006, 14:26

Just wondering if there are other people out there with similar experience as me.

I have close to 2000 hours total time and have both FAA and JAA CPL MEP-IR licenses to my name as well as the ATPL(a) theory. However coming back to Europe after been working as a flight instructor for 3 years in Florida to continue my aviation career has proven to be a bit more tricky than I was hoping for.

I have as so many other pilots here been sending out a huge amount of CV's, trying to use my contacts and create a network but so far without much success.

Most of the responce I have received on my applications have been what you all must have experienced, that I need a Typerating with 500 hours on Type or so, but actually at one time i got the feedback that I had too much experience, which I found to be a bit funny, since all I want to do is fly and I guess experience must be a positive when one is looking for jobs, but then again I was proven to be wrong.

What I am looking for is really just to hear from other pilots coming from America with 1200+ hours to their licenses and what their experiences have been finding jobs in Europe.

Have you had to buy a typerating? If yes, did that help you getting the job?
Have you had contacts that have helped you to get you the first job?
Have you struggled like me?
Have you got experiences, good or bad that you would like to share?

My downfall so far must be that even if my total time is quite high only 80 hours of these are multi engine time. I know of at least one company that rejected me for that reason.

Thank you for your participation.:cool:

flash8

26th May 2006, 15:20

OK, I'm in the same boat.
ICAO CPL/IR
700 Hours Dash 8-100, 170 hours 737-200, TT 1200.

I unfortunately am not currently working due to a "fall out" with my previous employer, although they will give me a good reference stating "I resigned even though they strenously tried to make me stay as I was such a good guy etc" kind of thing.

I'm looking for a Euro (EFIS) Boeing FO Position. Do I need to convert? I am trying to avoid the JAA IR (and CPL) conversion, although it may be inevitable. I'd happily do a JAA classic or ng type rating though if I can get a job at the end.

Advice required!

On speed on profile

26th May 2006, 15:34

If you get a job on type, I think you can do it for a year without converting providing you have an ATPL. This gives you the chance to do the exams and the flight test on your current type.

If you dont have an ATPL then you have to go through the whole thing except your physical training reduces to "discretionary" training for the CPL and 15 hours for the ME/IR.

I think you would need the full ICAO ATPL though. Do a google search for LASORS, the general rules for the UK CAA. I think you want section D. Alternatively email the CAA and ask them, give them all your details. They will probably point you towards LASORS.

You also have to get working rights and if you are Aus or NZ then this (last time I heard) has now reduced to 1 year work + 1 year travel.

Mr.Qte

28th May 2006, 19:35

ed, i was in the same situation. hang in there. it happened to me and im sure it will happen to you just be patient. i came to europe with close to 3000 hrs and 38 yrs of life experiance. im me for more info.

WX Man

28th May 2006, 20:47

IMO the biggest hurdle you will have is the stigma attached by some people about Florida flying schools. Have you thought about instructing over here for a bit to build up contacts/experience over here?

Fair_Weather_Flyer

29th May 2006, 10:53

You need to get time in UK airspace and do something other than instruction. Air taxi is the ideal. If you do not have the 40 multi PIC needed to do it, I'd suggest you buy some hour building to get it. Aerial survey is another alternative, but instruction? You have probably already done to much already.

Edinburgh

29th May 2006, 14:59

Thank you so far fellow pilots.

As you already suggest, I have of course been thinking of getting back into flight instruction, since this would be my way into flying again. However I chose to have a good look around and see what is available out there first.

Now since people are talking about flight instruction and networking, it would be interesting to hear from pilots who actually chose to take this route. It would be interesting to hear what made them chose the FI course instead of maybe a typerating, and how being a flight instructor has helped them to land the first job with an airline or get a foot inside other commercial flying? Or maybe they do not feel it helped at all?

I do not really want to get into the discussion about paying for typeratings or all this debate, however just trying to reveal the opportunities the industry gives to people who have more than 1200+ hours, with a low number of Multi engine hours, by flight instruction.

It would be interesting to hear the stories from people who have had success with their choices, and from people that feel that they are a bit stuck, due to the increasing demand and competition from people who are paying for their training with the airlines to get ahead.

Again I would prefer if this thread could avoid to focus on the issue and debate of right and wrong of buying a typerating, only if that was the way to land the first job after being a flight instructor and getting 1200+ hours.

Once again thank you for your 2 cent.:ok:

PicMas

29th May 2006, 15:09

Been around the world a few times the last 7 years, came home with FAA tickets and appx. 2300hrs and experience from different continents.

Hooked up with yank registered King Air and fly that every now and then, looks like there a quite a few N-reg planes and not that many experienced (read: with your kind of hours) pilots to fly them in Europe - insurance companies have their requirements, have you thought about the corporate scene??

Best of luck

Jimmy The Big Greek

31st May 2006, 15:24

Where can I find operators flying N-registered aircrafts in europe?

Married2APilot

20th Jun 2006, 06:05

Okay I'm wondering what is the best route for a low hour pilot to take in Europe? Obviously he/she isn't experienced enough to apply for positions with major airlines....so what options does the low hour pilot have in Europe? Is flight instructing an option? If it is, how difficult is it to complete the required courses and find steady work?

Also, if a pilot has his/her CPL but its an American license, is he/she even qualified to apply for pilot positions in Europe? Woluld he/she first have to convert their licence to even be qualified?

What would your advice be to an aspiring pilot who's submitted hundreds of resumes for job postings he has no qualifications for?

Married2APilot

20th Jun 2006, 23:05

Nothing? From anyone? Can someone at least point me in the right direction of where I might get my questions answered :confused:

captabcd

21st Jun 2006, 05:05

Patiens, patients. It may take some time, to figure out what you are after
:8

nzmarty

21st Jun 2006, 05:44

potkettleblack

21st Jun 2006, 07:55

First thing is to check if he/you/both can legally work in Europe.

unfazed

21st Jun 2006, 08:28

What would your advice be to an aspiring pilot who's submitted hundreds of resumes for job postings he has no qualifications for?

Well what about "make sure you meet the minimum requirements for the position ?" (That includes license qualifications)

Otherwise you are wasting your time and everyone elses:\

Married2APilot

22nd Jun 2006, 11:33

considering every thread that you have started asks questions on behalf of your husband, i would see it as thread lethargy.

he needs to be asking some of these q's himself. you're not going to be at his interview. i hope he's produced his own CV, and it's not written by you too.

Well, I'm asking these questions for my own knowledge. I would like to be able to separate fact from opinion, and also know the opinions of other wanabees and perhaps experienced pilots. For example, he's always told me that buying a type rating is a bad idea, but now he's considering it. So I've come to this forum to hear the opinions of other pilots and wanabees so that I'm not taking his words as law. None of my questioning is so that I can go back to my husband and inform him. I'm asking because I would like to know. I figured if I told my situation I'd get a more personalized response, and not a bunch of people questioning my husband's ability to speak or do anything for himself. I would like to know, so I ask. Honestly, if you have a problem with that....then oh well. :hmm:

I dont even know what a CV is.

iamanaussiemavrick

22nd Jun 2006, 12:03

Hi Marriedtoapilot,

I can understand ur eagerness..

I think the only way u can start in places like europe is as a flight instructor...
Since there is not much hours...i think conversion of license is necessary.(Not sure ..may be some others will correct this...)

Regards

Kanak

scroggs

22nd Jun 2006, 12:35

M2P,

you've already had some very good advice from Westhawk, who seems to have a firm grip of the realities of the hiring market in the USA. I think he's right that your husband has a somewhat unrealistic view of his prospects at his current level of experience. Your husband must take the blinkers off and see the world as it really is!

In the USA, his only prospect is to become a CFI and start building hours and experience. This is the accepted and expected route to commercial aviation in that country; there are no shortcuts as there are in UK. To be fair, the USA model is far more typical of commercial aviation worldwide than the UK model, which does accept low-houred pilots into the right-hand seat of jet airliners.

However, the low-houred pilot in UK is still far from guaranteed work in such aircraft. Those who complete a mentored scheme via CTC, Oxford, Cabair or FTE Jerez are the most likely to achieve a B737/A320 position on graduation because they are pre-selected for such positions, usually against forecast vacancies. All those wannabes who complete purely speculative, self-sponsored courses, whether integrated or modular, are further back in the queue - though a fair number at the moment are getting those jet jobs simply because the hiring market is so strong, and some UK airlines like to take a proportion of their new-hires direct from training. There are a variety of reasons for this which I won't go into in any depth, but cost is the chief one!

Historically, the vast majority of UK wannabes achieved their airline ambitions via instructing, air-taxi, night freight and/or commuter work, and this is still true for a large number of low-houred pilots here. These individuals will get their first airline job with typically between 800 and 2000 hours total time, achieved over probably three to five years post training. Your husband, should he decide to come to UK, will need to fit into this mould.

As you suggest earlier, he will need to do a conversion of his licence from FAA to JAA. At his experience level, this will be expensive. Very expensive. Some details can be found here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=231486), though I strongly advise him to get chapter and verse on this from either the CAA or a reputable school. He (and you, as the fact-finder) should have a good look through the sticky (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649) thread at the top of the firum for a great deal of useful information about the UK system. You will need a thorough understanding of it if you are to make a well-founded decision on your future.

Lastly, your husband should be getting flying time right now. Unless he is in current practice at flying an aeroplane, he will not be offered a job by anyone.

I hope this helps.

Scroggs

smokin_rivet

22nd Jun 2006, 16:02

Hey Scroggs,

That was a good post. I am coming to the UK from Canada this fall myself with the right to work. I am very current and am flying in northern Canada as a Captian on a multi engine piston aircraft.

Perhaps you could fill me in as to how a 2600TT 300MPIC ATPL holder might go about finding a good flying job in the UK. I have looked into the conversion to JAA and I think that I have a handle on all the ins and outs. I dont care about airlines, I just want to fly something with 2 engines, turbines if possible and make a fair wage.

In Canada there are several good message boards where company post job openings, and there is a magizine that publishes the contact infor for just about every company in the country. Does the UK have similiar resources?

Thanks to all who may reply.

scroggs

22nd Jun 2006, 19:37

SR Firstly, you're on the wrong forum. This one is for those baby pilots that are still in basic training and are trying to get their first job. The relevant forum for experienced pilots on Pprune is Terms and Endearments.

Secondly, we do not allow job adverts (or any other kind of adverts) on the open forums. That is because Pprune is funded by paying advertisers, and it undermines them and us if commercial concerns get advertising for free through people cutting-and-pasting job adverts. If a company wants its jobs advertised here, it can pay like everyone else (after all, it wouldn't give its revenue seats away, would it?!).

I don't know of a forum in UK that does what you suggest. You might try PPJN (Google it!) as a starter.

Scroggs

smokin_rivet

23rd Jun 2006, 01:16

Hey ,

Sorry for posting in the wrong forum.

I havn't had much luck using a google search but I'm sure there is something out there. If not I guess I could always create one similar to AvCanada.

Thanks for the reply and I look forward to the seminar.

Smokin

Married2APilot

24th Jun 2006, 05:13

M2P,
Lastly, your husband should be getting flying time right now. Unless he is in current practice at flying an aeroplane, he will not be offered a job by anyone.

I hope this helps.

Scroggs

Yes, that was a great post. I've gotten alot of useful information on this forum and I appreciate all the people who responded in a positive, informing manner. I definitely feel alot more informed ;) Thank you Scroggs for the links to further information also.
Yeah he's not current at all. Hasn't flown a plane since 2001. I've heard him talk about flying for a couple of hours to keep his license current, but he's never actually done it.:eek: Though he does spend tons of time on MSFS.

scroggs

24th Jun 2006, 09:30

M2P each little snippet of info you give about your dearly beloved confirms my feeling that he's a dreamer, not a do-er! Sounds to me like he needs a rocket up his arse, and I guess that's what you're trying to do. Unless he gets off his tush and starts flying, aviation as a profession will never be anything but a dream. Writing letters doesn't get people a job if they don't qualify in the first place, as I'm sure you appreciate.

Good luck!

Scroggs

grummy

1st Jul 2006, 12:47

Hi,
I'm in dire need for a flying job that pays at least food and rent.
Trouble is: Having a US CPL and a JAR PPL FI, I simply cannot afford the JAR CPL/ATPL any more.
I could add a US or JAR Multi, but having no further experience wouldn't make it much of a use, right ?
Except if somebody would have some multi instruction job on offer.

So I'm stuck with US CPL IFR SEL at the moment.
My experience is +1400 tt, about 20 different aircraft all SEL and X-ctry in about 50% of the US and at least 50% of europe.
I don't mind working night freight or similar

Would appreciate any suggestions, thank you.

zerozero

1st Jul 2006, 17:06

Seems like the DHL operation out of Bahrain was looking for Metroliner pilots a couple of years ago...I haven't followed it that close for some time now.

Also seems like India is really hurtin' for pilots right now. Not exactly Europe or Dubai....

Good luck.

downwindabeam

24th Sep 2006, 19:42

Ladys and Gents,

I am an American pilot and a citizen of the U.S. Wondering what are the realistics figures of a pilot job in Europe, while emphasizing on Ryan Air, EasyJet and mainly British Airways.

I have taken the steps to understand what it takes to get a frozen ATPL , and a JAA one at that. Understand the process involved and the monetary investment. I currently hold an american CPL+IR, with about 1200 hrs.

I understand you need either the right to live and work in the EU or a working visa.

I am looking for hourly minimums that are realistic to get an FO job in Europe, primarly with the airlines mentioned above. And also looking to knoe what is the physibality of getting a job with a mare working visa in the UK (or Ireland)? what kind of work permit would you need? and how hard is the process of obtaining one?

Thanks in advance!
-downwindabeam

flash8

24th Sep 2006, 20:07

I was going to right a long clever and witty response. But I'm too lazy.

The answer is no chance.

Sorry to dash any hopes!

Rainboe

24th Sep 2006, 21:24

<<I understand you need either the right to live and work in the EU or a working visa.>>

This covers it. Whilst people like actors and city bankers seem to be able to manage it, for mere mortals like us, it's almost impossible unless you have a family connection. It is even harder for us going west- the green card or US work permit is again virtually impossible to get. The only way to get into the UK is to travel under a truck and declare yourself a refugee- then you stay....with the other 1/2 million or so who get lost in our bureaucratic system and end up staying. You don't want to come here- the taxes will make you go crosseyed, healthcare is a disgrace, and however bad your politicians, ours are worse!

More people want to go in your direction than this!

enigmajet

24th Sep 2006, 21:34

:}
The previous poster is obviously a little concerned at the amount of US citizens now working in the EU, as are many of us who do not see the same privilege extended to those of EU extraction.
However Sir let me assure you if you were a type rated pilot on a Bae 146 or B737NG you would have very little difficulty obtaining a position in Ireland with FR or City Jet.
If you are not in possession of such a qualification contact the US embassy in Ireland very helpful people. There are many of your countrymen and those a little north of the US working in Ireland at the moment. If its something you really want pursue it, if however you are trying to find a quick fix to unemployment in the US keep plugging away in the US try regionals,Biz Jet, anything. There are plenty of guys in Ireland and and the rest of the Eu already in possession of the right to work in the EU. I wish you the best as someone who has been desperate and willing to do anything I will always remember the wise words of my CFI "Just enjoy it " (he meant learning your trade and being willing to do anything!the quirky jobs and people you meet is what you will remember long after you retire)
Good luck!;)

nicholasblonde

24th Sep 2006, 22:57

I have a quick question for those of you who might be from non-Shengen states...as an Estonian citizen, is it possible to be selected to the CTC wings scheme, or the Ryanair cadet type-qual course? Both sites state that candidates must "ideally have the unrestricted right to live and work within the EU."

With the UK, Ireland, Sweden, Spain, etc. having lifted all work restrictions on accession state nationals, and all restrictions ending in 2011, do you think they would let it slide??? My only fear is that they consider me "restricted" from working in Germany, France, Italy, etc.--those countries don't currently allow permits for accession nationals.

Anyone ever heard of an accession state national getting a place on the CTC wings scheme, Oxford Aviation scheme, or Ryanair type-rating course??? Any advice much appreciated!!!

nicholasblonde

25th Sep 2006, 19:42

I have a quick question for those of you who might be from non-Shengen states...as an Estonian citizen, is it possible to be selected to the CTC wings scheme, or the Ryanair cadet type-qual course? Both sites state that candidates must "ideally have the unrestricted right to live and work within the EU."
With the UK, Ireland, Sweden, Spain, etc. having lifted all work restrictions on accession state nationals, and all restrictions ending in 2011, do you think they would let it slide??? My only fear is that they consider me "restricted" from working in Germany, France, Italy, etc.--those countries don't currently allow permits for accession nationals.
Anyone ever heard of an accession state national getting a place on the CTC wings scheme, Oxford Aviation scheme, or Ryanair type-rating course??? Any advice much appreciated!!!

I guess maybe I'll just send in the app and cross my fingers. If I were a Brit, I guess I truly wouldn't want to let another country's citizen compete with me for sponsorships, but maybe CTC will take my euros anyways.

captaina320

27th Sep 2006, 10:01

i am lost
i have around 5000+ tt
about 3000+ in a320 i have faa atp i would like to convert it to jaa atp
what i have to do someone help me her plz :confused:

nicholasblonde

30th Sep 2006, 21:23

i am lost
i have around 5000+ tt
about 3000+ in a320 i have faa atp i would like to convert it to jaa atp
what i have to do someone help me her plz :confused:

Scroggs will tell you that you need to post this in the thread for experienced pilots...not in the wannabe forum.

not sure if this is a faciecious post...and not sure how much of that a320 time is PIC..if you have 500 pic on type, you're golden with easyJet. just call around to jaa schools about license conversions. If you have 500 PIC a320 you might even swing a work permit, if you aren't an eu national.

nicholasblonde

30th Sep 2006, 21:53

M2P, a CV refers to a "curriculum vitae," which is essentially a european word for a resume--albeit some might argue that a CV contains a lengthier history of a candidate, wheras a resume is slightly more condensed.

Sadly, the 2 remaining US operators of bae 146 aircraft will have withdrawn them from service by the time your hubby would be able to build any time on them in the us, otherwise I might suggest he get on with one of those regional carriers and build hours on that type, still in wide usage in euro fleets. Maybe he could get on with a foreign operator of said aircraft: check out http://www.smiliner.com/operators/operators.shtml

Also, might I suggest that if your hubby really really really wants to work in europe...I mean, really really badly, you might check out the following routes:

1) Flight instruct in the US, build hours, work for a regional carrier, eventually get 1000 pic turbine time, then try to get on with jetblue or southwest, flying airbuses or 737s, respectively. Eventually get 500 hours on type, in command, at one of those carriers. Then ryanair or easyjet might sponsor a work permit for him. Of course, by that time he would be earning substantial amounts of money in the US at US tax rates, and you could buy a vacation flat in Nice in 2 year just off of the tax savings from working in the US.

2) Both of you guys go get nursing degrees...there are several colleges in the US where they have intensive 2 year certification programmes. With a nursuing certification (something globally in high demand)...you go work for the nurse-strapped NHS in the UK. Nurses can essentially work any hours of the night, and can often block schedule their hours into 3 days on 3 days off, etc. It shouldn't be that hard to get a work permit as a nurse...I think you could work 1 year on a work permit, then apply for permanent residency...at that point, hubby flight instructs, flies night freight, air taxi, etc...after 5 years of this, you guys can apply for citizenship...then, he'll have hours, and you'll both have citizenship....apps out to the airlines, and you've got your dream job....

So tell him he can either languish in a forgotten dream, or take the necessary steps and dig the heels in and make it happen. Having lived in the US and the UK, I think there is a certain cultural difference: americans have big dreams and grand ideas, and talk a lot about things they could do...brits seem to appreciate action more than ideas. You might have run into that on this forum.

tell your hubby that midwestern redneck adage--"get er done!!!"

scroggs

1st Oct 2006, 15:02

you go work for the nurse-strapped NHS in the UK.

Unfortunately, the NHS's lack of cash (though their budget is huge, and increasing way faster than inflation) is more pressing than their lack of nurses. Hence thousands of recently-graduated nurses in UK are being denied jobs. The chances of newly-qualified foreign nurses getting a job here have, for the moment, disappeared.

Apart from that, it was a great plan - I am impressed by your ingenuity!

Scroggs

nicholasblonde

2nd Oct 2006, 07:49

Unfortunately, the NHS's lack of cash (though their budget is huge, and increasing way faster than inflation) is more pressing than their lack of nurses. Hence thousands of recently-graduated nurses in UK are being denied jobs. The chances of newly-qualified foreign nurses getting a job here have, for the moment, disappeared.

Apart from that, it was a great plan - I am impressed by your ingenuity!

Scroggs

foot-in-mouth now. I guess I made the assumption that, since being a nurse is a sure way to gain work auth. in the USA and just about everywhere else. I was trying to think of ways to get her a work permit without having to go the "highly skilled migrant programme" route.

On another note, since we're in this "immigration" forum, can anyone tell me which type of entry-level flying job (i.e. instruction, air taxi, night freight, etc.) in Ireland & the UK currently need pilots the most?

davey147

2nd Jan 2007, 21:46

I know this might sound like a dumb quesion, but i'm a bit naive when it comes to things like this.

Does a British Citizen have the right to work and live in any EU country. E.g. could I apply to any airline based in any EU country. Or am I restricted to airlines in the UK only?

GgW

2nd Jan 2007, 21:58

A short answer , YES.
You can apply to every airline in the EU at the moment.

TheOne83

2nd Jan 2007, 22:01

Any european citizen has the right to live and work in UK if i'm not wrong, so i believe that any UK citizen also has the right to work and live in EU ;) As long as you have a JAA or JAR license you can work anywhere in EU including UK, that's for sure :)

Later;

/niko

mad_jock

2nd Jan 2007, 22:23

You have the right to work but just because you have a JAR License doesn't mean you will be allowed to fly their Reg aircraft public transport.

The JAR license is nice in theory but there are still some countrys who put some barriers up. eg France. Also as well there are some slight difference in a UK JAR medical which other country's don't except eg the Germans get a bit stroppy with the lack of a full eye examination periodically.

I know it won't really matter to wannabies but in the UK the ATPL skills test is just any old LPC in the RHS after you have the required hours and the TRE doesn't need to know. Sweden for example you have to do a seperate check in the LHS as a formal ATPL qualifying check.

So it is not as easy as you might think. And thats before you even start having to meet the language requirements

scroggs

9th Jan 2007, 09:11

An EU citizen (that is, one who holds an EU passport) may work in any country of the EU, with temporary exceptions for the new-entrant countries. Your JAA licence is valid in all countries covered by the JAA - which is the EU plus a few others.

Non-EU citizens (such as Australians) have no right to work in the EU, except that they may have ancestral rights to live and work in their country of ancestral origin. That is, if your parents were born in the UK, you may have the right to live and work in the UK, but that does not translate into a right to live and work anywhere else in the EU - until you apply for, and receive, EU nationality. To establish what rights you have, and what further actions you must take, you must contact the embassy of your target EU country in your own nation.

Scroggs

potkettleblack

11th Jan 2007, 12:53

An ex of mine gained indefinite leave to remain in the UK based on her grandfather having been born in the UK. Essentially this was a stamp in her kiwi passport and enabled her to come and go as she pleased to the UK and work unrestricted BUT again in the UK only. After 5 years she was entitled to to apply for naturalisation as a British citizen and then in turn send off her certificate to apply for a British passport at the passport office. It was only after gaining this passport that she could freely live and work throughout the EU.

If you fail to have a parent or grandparent (think only a grandad!) who was born here then the only other option is a work permit and to seek sponsorship. Then it is a similar process to the above except after 4 years you can shift off the work permit and apply for leave to remain in your own right which means you would no longer be tied to your sponsored employer. Believe me working 4 years for the same outfit can be a long long time when you want to be somewhere else earning more money but have invested so much and are within a whisker of getting the passport. After 5 years its naturalisation and the passport and then the EU will be open to you.

Much easier to marry an EU citizen if you ask me and avoid the hassle!

MrsMuggins

1st Feb 2007, 12:36

My son is in the middle of applying for pilot school. We've read the many threads about which place is best but one thing I notice is that everyone seems to want to work for a UK based airline which is perfectly understandable but what's wrong with going to other countries - like the US. Or, to be honest, my son would be happy flying an island-hopping plane in the caribbean ot the maldives. Is that not considered "serious" piloting? Do you need residency/work permits to work for US or other nationality airlines?

SingSong

1st Feb 2007, 13:06

There is nothing stopping your son, nor any wannabe pilot, from flying anywhere in the world, however, in most countries First Officer spots are generally given first to nationals of the country, and then to foreigners. While not impossible to gain the first job in a foreign country the chances are less than in you home country.

At least thats what i've found when looking at airlines.

Superpilot

1st Feb 2007, 14:57

In practice, however...
In practise, you will be required to speak the language of the country in question.

jdmackin

1st Feb 2007, 15:58

Hey all,

I am a prospective American who has another year and a half of flight training before I recieve all my nesscessary raitings that allow me to become a Airline Pilot, but I am wondering where to start off.

What makes Europe a better place to fly than America?

Do most Airlines have night stops?

Do most hire only from academies and not colleges?

And do some airlines actually have uniforms? Like hats, ties, and belts that make us look like Pilots?

Thanks for all your help
-JD

scroggs

1st Feb 2007, 22:45

There are many contract-based, relatively short-term jobs available to pilots of almost any nationality in many places around the world. However, these jobs normally require a fair amount of experience, and normally exist in places where there is little or no indigenous pool of pilots to draw from.

'First-world' countries, such as the USA, the EU, Australia and so on, protect their jobs markets jealously, and make it very difficult for non-nationals to enter their economies - whether they are pilots, acountants, teachers, bin men or whatever.

Employers within the EU (and anywhere else, for that matter) are entitled to insist that people who wish to work for them are fluent in the language of whatever country they are based in. That is only a barrier to those who refuse to learn their language...

Scroggs

Justin.C

1st Mar 2007, 01:18

Hey guys, and girls :)
I`m 22 and half way through my CPL training in Australia, and all going to plan i`ll have CPL + MECIR and about 200 hours within next four months. I`ve recently been offered a job as an F.O. flying turboprop twins provided I get a Command Endorsement (self sponsored, in the vicinity of $32k +) once I`ve got my MECIR. However I`ve heard that this kind of money could get me through JAA conversion and a JET TR. My Dad being english gives me eligiblity for a British passport, and some guys over here think i`m nuts not to take the opportunity and go over there, with what seems to be a new trend of Airlines hiring low hour pilots as F.O.`s provided you get your own endorsement.

I`m very keen to start out over here with mentioned job however It`s a massive investment, and I want to make sure I`m making the right decision as this decision will affect me finacially for years to come...
I`m just really confused about it all

Anywho any thoughts are greatly appreciated :)

cheers, Justin

Beaver diver

1st Mar 2007, 08:42

I am currently in GB came from Canada got everything I need, but the grass is always greener elsewhere...My suggestion: Offers don't come often If they come at all so grab the opportunity and stick to it for couple of years, then you will be more employable anywhere for that matter, therefore job hunt will be a bit easier for you.
Here in England is not so great regarding the jobs with low hours. Everyone hurdles into jobs like Ryanair etc...but they forget the fact that out of 20 first officers they are hiring there is about 1000 applications (little bit less) for that position with 200 something TT pilots. So really, what are the odds of getting in? After spending $35000 for type rating, even if you are succesful in assesment, you still have to satisfactory complete the training,otherwise: bye,bye, that's just the way it is...
I'd pick Asia over UK anytime If i could(China, Thailand,Indonesia...)

Luke SkyToddler

1st Mar 2007, 09:35

Mate you are kidding yourself if you think $32000 Aus dollars will go very far up here, it won't even get you the half - probably not even a THIRD of what you need to be employable up here.

Think about it : remember you've got to do all 14 JAR ATPL subjects (£3000) the single engine CPL (£2000) the IR conversion (Between £5000 and £10000 depending on where you train, how quickly you get your head round UK IFR operations, how many training delays / bad weather delays you get and how many resits you end up doing - bearing in mind that well under half the candidates pass first time :( ) Cost of conversion 'could' be as high as £15000 - plus living expenses up here for at least 6 months at, say, £1000 a month. Then you say you want a jet rating, which will cost you a further £20 - 25000. Plus another 2 or 3 months living expenses.

Work all that out and I'd say you'd be a fool to rock up here with less than $AUS50,000 in your back pocket just for the CPL/IR conversion, and $100,000 if you are serious about buying the jet rating.

And after all that where have you found yourself - sitting around competing with all the other 200 hour wonders in your same position, trying to stay alive financially and pay the interest on all that money by working in some London pub for a fiver an hour while you send out all those CVs and wait for the phone to call? Those are haaarrrddd times brother, trust me I know because I've been there, and I did it with a lot more hours than you!

The good times are indeed rolling up here in Europe for people with decent multi turbine experience but there are just as many unemployed low timers up here as anywhere else.

If you are fresh out of flying school and you have an offer of a multi turbine job - anywhere in the world, let alone in Oz - then for christs sake grab hold of it with both hands and never ever ever let it go. It's a different story once you've got a full ATPL and 1000 hours on a useful multi turbine type, come up to the UK at that stage and you will indeed find yourself on the gravy train :ok:

Benny71

5th Apr 2007, 04:24

I hold an Australian passport and my wife holds an Italian passport. I know I am entitled to a UK residency permit (EEA family permit) if I join my wife in the UK, that gives me the same supposed rights as an EU citizen; i.e. live and work there. Apparently this is issued free of charge, which must be about the only thing that is!

What I am wondering though is does this equate to most airlines requirement to have "the unresticted right to live and work in the EU"?

My thinking is it does, so long as my wife accompanies me, which would be the case. If it doesn't mean I have this right, why don't companies stipulate that prospective employees must hold an EU passport? Not even BA has this requirement.

In any case I am applying to become an Italian citizen (as we've been married > 3 years), but have been told by the consulate that it would probably take 4 years to process, even though by law it's supposed to be decided within 2 years. This has left me with a massive headache - hence my query.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers.

pumuckl

5th Apr 2007, 07:18

This is my understanding (if that's wrong, please correct me):

You can only get a UK EEA Permit if your wife lives in the UK with you. The permit is only good for the UK and does not give you the right to work and live in any other EU country. If your wife then leaves the UK permanently (to live in Italy for example) you will have to hand back your UK EEA Permit and leave the country (unless you can get a different visa, ie. work permit or something like that).

You can of course get a family permit to live in Italy if your wife lives with you in Italy, but again, then you would not be entitled to live and work in the UK (or any other EU country for that matter) as your wife lives in Italy.

In addition, when the EEA Permit is first issued, there is a 1 or 2 year time limit on it, before the end of which you will need to renew/upgrade to a residency permit. As far as the UK is concerned, they will give you a 5 year residency permit once your EEA Permit runs out (again, based on your wife living with you in the UK - if she leaves, you have to leave). Only after that can you apply for indefinite leave to remain in the UK. Even that doesn't give you the right to work and live in any other EU country, just to live in the UK indefinitely (and without your wife) (and that is when you can get things like the dole etc).

However, once you have lived in the UK for 5 years (if you are here based on your wife's non-UK passport), or you have lived in Italy for 3 years (based on your wife's Italian passport), you can apply for a passport. My understanding is that the Italians won't give you a passport unless you live in Italy with your wife, but I may be wrong on that. That is certainly the case with Germany. If in the UK, you can apply for a UK passport. Only the passport will allow you to work unrestricted in the EU.

My situation is similar to yours and I will send you a PM with my experiences. If anyone else has other experiences, I'd be happy to be corrected/updated.

Cheers,
P. :(

pumuckl

5th Apr 2007, 07:35

Forgot to mention - make sure that Italy allows dual citizenship. I know Oz and the UK do, but for example Germany doesn't. If you were applying for a German passport you'd have to give up your other one. Very annoying.

Benny71

5th Apr 2007, 08:08

Thank for the info Pumuckl.

Italy don't require residence it Italy for spouses to be given citizenship. You can apply after 6 months of marriage if living in Italy or after 3 years if living abroad. We've been married for 5 years but have only applied now as my wife's citizenship has just been completed. Unfortunately I've been told it will likely take 4 years to process my application. In the mean time I need to mess around with permits and try to find employers that will accept a EEA family permit until I can apply for a residency permit.

:ugh:

Barefoot Flyer

12th Apr 2007, 00:23

Any job prospects in the uk with 900tt? Only prob is licence is an icao, is that difficult to trasfer? And more importantly is it gonna break the bank?
Cheers

sir.pratt

12th Apr 2007, 00:28

do some research. call the nz caa. read the uk caa website. if you're gonna go, don't waste any more money here.

5 RINGS

12th Apr 2007, 09:32

did an ICAO (Canada) licence conversion in the UK in 2004/2005, cost me 20K Eur and....15 months, 12 of them for the ATPL exams (distance learner).

Not too much expensive an investment, but a bit time consumming.

south coast

12th Apr 2007, 10:11

Perhaps some more info would be helpful, what licence do you currently hold?

I would think you are going to have to do the 14 ATPL theory exams, then hours as required with a flight school to pass the Instrument flight test, then hours as required for the CPL flight test.

The cost is hard to say, because it depends on how many hours you will need to be ready for the 2 flight tests.

10-15k perhaps.

mferioli

17th May 2007, 20:39

Hi guys,
I am an American pilot with a CPL single and multi, and instrument rating all FAA. I have about 200 hours and wil soon start CFI. My goal is to move to the UK and get either an instructor job or any kind of flying job. So far I have learned that I need to take a JAA ATPL ground school and pass all the tests. What I havn't learned is anything else. So what else do I need to do and how should I go about doing it? I can't seem to find anyone out there who has already done this before. Im looking for any and all advice on this subject and would greatly appreciate any that you can provide. Also if Im in the wrong place please let me know.

Thanks for the help,

Mike